Why Fight this Never-ending Battle?

Because it’s the only one that will make a difference…

Yea, sometimes I think that at 73 I ought to hang it up. But then I see the politicians and their billionaire buddies ripping off my kids and grandkids and become even more intent on putting them in prison.

Indeed it’s distressing to see so many Americans fighting tiny battles they’ll never win, as long as the corporations own our politicians. Like the time it took us 3 years to get smoking out of daycare centers because Philip Morris owned our governor and state legislature, Governor-elect Scott Walker included.

Public funding of campaigns would have seen passage in 3 days.

The rich guys at our nation’s top usually didn’t get richer because they grew the country or its GDP. They got richer by manipulating and looting and crashing the economy, and sharing their wealth with the politicians that helped make it all happen. They got rich by pocketing the losses of mainstream America’s 401(k)’s, retirement accounts and housing values. It’s called a “transfer of wealth.”

They got Obama to appoint their buddies — Larry Summers and Tim Geithner — to guard the chicken coop and bail out the banks, and paid off the politicians to look the other way. We may see total anarchy or rebellion before we turn the country around, if it is even reversible.

I think of my friends, Julie and Dan, who worked like hell to buy their third house and put their two kids into school. Dan started his own company to insulate houses, then the housing market crashed. All because the politicians were paid handsomely to pass NAFTA and other laws that seemed to be “free trade,” but only for the countries with wages one-tenth ours. People without jobs don’t buy houses.

And now the other countries have our jobs and my friends are $300K in debt and filing bankruptcy and their house is in foreclosure. And millions of Americans find themselves in the same trouble… all while our politicians bounce around with their hands still out promising not to raise taxes on the wealthy (if they just kick in a bit, mind you).

And no, the rich guys don’t care because they’ve already bought or planned their island in some other country, where all they have to worry about are pirates and military coups. My heart bleeds for them.

So to the Lefties, the Righties and those in between, is this where you want your country to go? Isn’t it now time to install rules that keep our government honest? Being 22nd best on the corruption index is nothing to brag about.

It does not matter what your issue — taxes, health care, or the war — it will not be resolved as long as our politicians are taking bribes. Vote them out and the new ones will gladly take the campaign dollars. Only public funding of campaigns will fix it. It’s the big fire from which little fires grow.

Jack Lohman is a retired business owner from Colgate, WI and author of Politicians - Owned and Operated by Corporate America. He is publisher of MoneyedPoliticians.net and can be reached at: jelohman@gmail.com. Read other articles by Jack.

53 comments on this article so far ...

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  1. Don Hawkins said on November 18th, 2010 at 7:21am #

    Wealth is the parent of luxury and indolence, and poverty of meanness and viciousness, and both of discontent.
    Plato

  2. Don Hawkins said on November 18th, 2010 at 7:36am #

    lotus-eater An idle dreamer, one who lives a life of indolence and ease. The lotus-eaters or lotophagi are a mythical people found in Homer’s Odyssey. Odysseus discovers them in a state of dreamy forgetfulness and contentment induced by their consumption of the legendary lotus fruit. Having lost all desire to return to their homelands, they want only to remain in Lotus-land living a life of idle luxury. Use of the term dates from the first half of the 19th century.

    Lotus land and or lotus eater and will use this again and not a lotus fruit in old twenty ten do they eat.

  3. hayate said on November 18th, 2010 at 11:49am #

    From the article:

    “Only public funding of campaigns will fix it. It’s the big fire from which little fires grow.”

    That’s the smokescreen that will allow things to remain the same. The bribing will just be done a little more cleverly, as it’s done in places like the UK and Australia.

    The source of the problem is not not rich people corrupting politicians, it’s rich people.

    IE: capitalism

    This is what needs to be eradicated.

  4. jlohman said on November 18th, 2010 at 12:00pm #

    I disagree. “More clever” bribing results in jail time; but giving politicians the option of public funding is a good try. It’s not the illegal money that’s the problem, it’s the LEGAL campaign bribes.

    Getting rid of capitalism and going to, say, socialism or communism, is not a long term solution. Even China, Russia and Cuba found that out.

  5. bozh said on November 18th, 2010 at 12:06pm #

    my post about jack lohman’s piece either was not sent or deleted.
    i think i said that u.s governance had been by now much privatized and going on to be totally in private hands.
    i also suggested that we need to study ALL OF IT and not just ‘politicians’.
    putting the word “politicians” under single quotes, reveals to connected realities: that politicians do not exist in isolation from cia-fbi-army-police or constitution nor that they solely engage in ‘politics’; they engage in ALL OF IT.
    i also suggested we study the swiss model which is in process of deconditioning people from their animalistic ways into sm’thing more human. tnx

  6. bozh said on November 18th, 2010 at 12:13pm #

    now we have even jack lohman comparing an nonexistent entitity, such as any chinese [or any human] actually behaving in a communistic way with the actually bns behaving inmost brutal and ways.
    even christian once attempted to behave in a communistc ways and falied and possibly for two reasons: NONE WERE ACTUALLY CHRISTIANS NOR COMMUNIST!
    so we get one more supremacist on this site! tnx

  7. hayate said on November 18th, 2010 at 12:14pm #

    “I disagree. “More clever” bribing results in jail time; but giving politicians the option of public funding is a good try. It’s not the illegal money that’s the problem, it’s the LEGAL campaign bribes. ”

    Yeah just ask a Brit how well it works in the UK. There are about as many corrupt British politicians in prison as their are american ceos in prison. These people don’t get prosecuted unless they cross the wrong “big boy”

    It’s the “big boys” that got to go, if there is to be any real change. You don’t cure cancer by allowing the source of the disease to remain while you work on the disease symptoms.

  8. jlohman said on November 18th, 2010 at 12:18pm #

    Wow. I am obviously very stupid. What kind of government are you proposing? Capitistic, communistic, what?

  9. bozh said on November 18th, 2010 at 12:41pm #

    jack how about the swiss model or even venezuelan, vietnamese, cuban? and please don’t put ur words in my mouth. i did not u call stupid? and why not? because that too is an invention; there is no such phenomenon as stupidity.

    what about u.s constitution? is it not the main engine commanding americans to wage wars, ignorance, poverty, demonization of anyone who disagrees with all that?
    or does a war, poverty, ‘politicians’, ignorance, apsolute constitutional truth, or god exist a priori?
    thus, cannot be talked about let alone studied and changed. tnx

  10. Don Hawkins said on November 18th, 2010 at 12:45pm #

    Capitalism is regarded by many socialists to be irrational in that production and the direction of the economy are unplanned, creating many inconsistencies and internal contradictions. Capitalism requires continual economic growth, and will inevitably deplete the finite natural resources of the earth, and other broadly utilized resources. Labor historians and scholars, such as Immanuel Wallerstein have argued that unfree labor—by slaves, indentured servants, prisoners, and other coerced persons—is compatible with capitalist relations. Wiki

    Capitalism probably will not work on second thought no probably about it. Then of course we have the evil Socialists and Jack that photo there’s something about the look of those men what could it be?

  11. jlohman said on November 18th, 2010 at 12:47pm #

    Oh. Okay.

  12. bozh said on November 18th, 2010 at 12:49pm #

    james keyes is not ever rude when we disagree with him. naturally, nobody welcomes disagreement. showing it is ok. but many contributors appear hateful, veangeful; resort to namecalling, etc..
    and their hateful talk is allowed ?always!
    them being more meritocratic? tnx

  13. jlohman said on November 18th, 2010 at 1:01pm #

    Don, that photo reminded me of a slimeball that I could not trust with my dog. I thought it was appropriate for the article.

    I’m a supporter of regulated free market, not the unfettered variety we now have. I’d even tolerate a little more socialism than we now have (healthcare and schools). But Cuba and Venezuelan communism I’d not favor, mainly because in my background I started a company in my basement and grew it to over 70 employees in four states in 25 years. I loved the entrepreneurship and believe that to be healthy.

    Are their other forms of government short of communism? Of course, but I’m very pragmatic and know that in my lifetime I’ll not see anything better than capitalism. I’d just like to clean it up while I’m here.

  14. bozh said on November 18th, 2010 at 1:03pm #

    don,
    that specie, a communistic or socialistic human, disappeared ca 12k yrs ago. all of us are now fascists; tho, each in his/her own way!
    supremacists, nevertheless, dig them up to show people howe not to behave. tnx

  15. bozh said on November 18th, 2010 at 1:33pm #

    resurrecting dead ‘commuists’; like lenin, stalin, mao, to show how bad they were and their ‘communism’ and resurrecting dead u.s presidents to show how wise-honest-good they were to prove that americanism is really the exemplar is an old ruse.
    expect more of it! tnx

  16. Don Hawkins said on November 18th, 2010 at 1:40pm #

    irrational in that production and the direction of the economy are unplanned, creating many inconsistencies and internal contradictions.

    Here in the greatest nation on Earth the bridges are somewhat falling apart the roads too the power grid is in need of a little repair or a complete change even better dams many are somewhat unstable and from what I understand the people who live here are somewhat over weight don’t read or do math all that well but yes we have I-pods and flat screen TV’s the sewer and drainage systems and water forget about it because of climate change just the Hoover Dam about another 12 feet down and water for some major cities oh well they just spent how much money on these elections so as to do what? The greatest nation on Earth in what Universe.

  17. bozh said on November 18th, 2010 at 1:40pm #

    i am a fascist, too. but i don’t compete with any other in order to best her/him.
    little bit of fascism is even good! or maybe not good? whatever! we’l never know! oops, i’l never know!
    but i avoid talking about dead people! ok, must go now, small head calling to do the pots! tnx

  18. Deadbeat said on November 18th, 2010 at 2:03pm #

    Yea, sometimes I think that at 73 I ought to hang it up. But then I see the politicians and their billionaire buddies ripping off my kids and grandkids and become even more intent on putting them in prison.

    Are their other forms of government short of communism? Of course, but I’m very pragmatic and know that in my lifetime I’ll not see anything better than capitalism. I’d just like to clean it up while I’m here.

    It all depends on your view of communism. It it based on a distortion. Communism has been badly distorted by both the former Soviet Union and the United States to serve the goals of each respective ruling classes. There are some better definition of how a Socialist society can function. This link the World Socialist Movement can provide some guidance.

    When you say the following …

    I’ll not see anything better than capitalism. I’d just like to clean it up while I’m here.

    What do you mean by “better” ; how do you envision it; how bad or good do you think Capitalism is. What you are living through is the RETURN to Capitalism. After the Great Depression, Keynesian mechanisms were put into place that were designed to STABILIZE Capitalism.

    However by the 1970’s and for the past 40 years working people have been losing ground only able to sustain themselves with debt.

    So for more than 1/2 your life and as a business owner you’ve been in a position where you’ve most likely have been the beneficiary of policies that tilt towards the Capitalist class and transferred more wealth from the working class to the rich. For example during the 1980’s the progressive Income Taxes which acts as a stabilizer for Capitalism was reduced by 60%. In other words the “stabilizers” have been removed and now Capitalism is returning to its roots. And as you’ve discovered you don’t like what you see.

    This is why we need quite the opposite. If the Left hadn’t abandoned its own principles and the discourse these past 40 years the answer I think would be quite obvious.

  19. jlohman said on November 18th, 2010 at 5:32pm #

    Oh come now, just say it! I prefer _____________ as a form of government.

    I’ve already said I prefer “regulated capitalism.”

  20. hayate said on November 18th, 2010 at 7:57pm #

    BTW, jack, since you voted for bush, his wars, his torture, his rampant corruption, his zionist sucking up, TWICE (as prez, are you a texan, did you also vote for him as governor?), will you be voting for palin in 2012? Assuming you’re still alive, of course.

  21. Hue Longer said on November 18th, 2010 at 9:38pm #

    Hello Jack,

    From what I know, public funding wouldn’t fix the created perception stemming from the media. I haven’t done the homework for this conversation but have you considered Canada’s placement of shills ? From what I can tell, these guys will get in no matter what you do with finance reform because the supposed democracy is just a front to begin with.

  22. hayate said on November 18th, 2010 at 9:52pm #

    Hue Longer

    “From what I know, public funding wouldn’t fix the created perception stemming from the media. I haven’t done the homework for this conversation but have you considered Canada’s placement of shills ? From what I can tell, these guys will get in no matter what you do with finance reform because the supposed democracy is just a front to begin with.”

    In response to his previous postings on this subject, I’ve mentioned that, but jack ignores it and just repeats the same mantra about public campaign finance being a cure all, over and over again.

  23. hayate said on November 18th, 2010 at 9:58pm #

    jlohman said on November 18th, 2010 at 9:16pm #

    “If the editors were smart they’d block your IP address. You obviously can’t (likely can’t) have an intelligent conversation.”

    He posts that AFTER posting these gems in response to other posts here:

    jlohman said on November 18th, 2010 at 12:18pm #

    “Wow. I am obviously very stupid. What kind of government are you proposing? Capitistic, communistic, what?”

    jlohman said on November 18th, 2010 at 5:32pm #

    “Oh come now, just say it! I prefer _____________ as a form of government.

    I’ve already said I prefer “regulated capitalism.”

    😀

  24. Deadbeat said on November 19th, 2010 at 12:28am #

    jlohman writes …

    I’ve already said I prefer “regulated capitalism.”

    jlohman makes that comment of supporting “regulated capitalism (Keynesianism)” right after I carefully explained how for more than half his life the wealthy supported policies that unraveled those regulations. Most especially was the 60% reduction of the progressive Income Tax rates in 1981 and 1986. Mr. Lohman’s himself and the class he represents were huge beneficiaries. In order to make up for some of the tax EXPENDITURES the government BORROWED the money to close its deficits. That is a major source of the “ripping off” of his grandchildren.

    Is Mr. Lohman prepared to support a complete repayment by the wealthy of the TRILLIONS of dollars that were transferred to his class over these past 40 years — I doubt it.

    Now Mr. Lohman offers up “Liberalism” as the solution. That is what “regulated Capitalism” is. Keynesianism was only a Capitalism’s band-aid that the Capitalist hated but accepted after WWII. But by the 1975 REJECTED and wanted to return to Capitalism. What we now have is a return to Capitalism thanks to Mr. Lohman and the politics he’s supported these past 40 years.

    Keynesianism was going to inevitably fail because Capitalism cannot be regulated. It must be terminated.

  25. Don Hawkins said on November 19th, 2010 at 3:00am #

    Yesterday I heard a speech from the floor of the Roman sorry Unites States Senate and Senator Byron Dorgan showed some reason, imagination and light. He’s not running again so I guess that help’s with the light part but again the invisible wall was there again as when he started to talk about energy it’s still all of the above. We want all of the above to keep moving forward do we. They just can’t tell the truth either to themselves or us and I guess a few know what’s coming down the track and it’s name is———–? Before Dorgan gave his speech it was Orrin Hatch right there in living color for all the World to see if they looked was a human living in day’s gone by. With known knowledge and say the wisdom and light of Plato Orrin Hatch in his speech yesterday showed us why after two hundred thousand years of walking on Earth many still think the Sun revolves around the Earth or don’t have the slitest idea how it work’s or care for that matter. Please don’t tax the top 2% it’s just not fair can you imagine a World without us? Well yes and imagine this;

    “November is an autumn month, not a wintry one, and it still has hot days, but this November has been particularly scorching,” Rinat Rahmim, a forecaster for the Israel Meteorological Service, said on Wednesday.

    “Last week we had all-time record highs. For instance, it was 36.6º Celsius in Beit Dagan.”

    “Growers are trying to sell desperately. If the drought continues into late December, we’ll have irreparable damage to the agricultural sector.”

    Still, some good things may come out of the dry spell. As The Media Line’s Arieh O’Sullivan reported last week, rabbis, imams and priests joined forces in Jerusalem to pray for the onset of rain. If the quest for peace in the Middle East won’t bring people together, maybe the drought will. The Jerusalem Post two day’s ago

  26. jlohman said on November 19th, 2010 at 3:10am #

    Wow, all this talk about why my reforms won’t work, why regulated capitalism won’t work, and STILL NO suggestion of what would be better! We are wasting our time. This is not a discussion, it’s a critique.

    And Hue, there are only two ways of funding elections, public money and private money. Private money is what we’ve all known as bribes. The money is given because the money buys spending of taxpayer dollars.

    That’s assuming we want elections at all.

  27. Don Hawkins said on November 19th, 2010 at 5:39am #

    Let me weigh in here so far the approach is it’s the economy stupid and that is 180 degrees in the wrong direction. It’s the Earth stupid. Yes shocking to a few but this too shall pass. I choose the second as it put’s all on the same page and kind of makes everything as simple as possible but not simpler.

  28. Don Hawkins said on November 19th, 2010 at 6:52am #

    How to get it started well the little God’s ever hear of them not once a year or once a month but everyday tell people the other 98% the Earth revolves around the Sun so to speak not the other way around. Yes the little God’s like it the other way as they get to sit in a leather chair and give orders and or tell people how to think. This needs to change heck if it makes them feel better we can let them do that a little but not anything close to what they do now. Now granted the little God’s make there own home made spaghetti once in a awhile and open there own bottle of imported wine maybe it’s a start but need to broaden there skill’s just a tad.

  29. jlohman said on November 19th, 2010 at 6:57am #

    Fine. But what political system are we talking about? Communism? Regulated capitalism? Unfettered capitalism? Monarchy? What?

  30. Kim Petersen said on November 19th, 2010 at 7:56am #

    No where has capitalism worked for society.
    It is so obvious that capitalism is a system that rails against fetters, and the moneyed ones will always seek to find a way to unfetter capitalism. It is futile, intellectually inane, immoral, and whatever else to support a system based on the greed factor.
    A much better economy would be parecon.

  31. bozh said on November 19th, 2010 at 7:59am #

    i wonder what “regulated capitalism” means. and then i wonder about what “capitalism” means. and what does “regulate” mean.
    does capitalism mean some of us work and ‘earn’ enough to have a mansion, yacht, plane and others just enough to survive.
    still others have no work.

    after we learn all about capitalism, we cld ask is it a part of u.s system of rule and wld be regulated by the system or regulated by individuals answering to no one?

    suppose we think of capitalism as all we do? and suppose it wld be regulated; i.e., legally controlled? and not by any individual? but by governance?

    let’s recall that govts are or shld be part of the governance. so are all religions, all workers, hobos, homeless, housepeople, soldiers. and all shld be equally looked after or protected.

    alas, u.s governance [seems, scribes do not espy it; ergo, what is there to study about it] fosters supremacism and selects-elects only supremacists for all governmental functions.
    these people supervise everything they see or care to see.

    yes, they do espy people losing homes, soldiers being killed-maimed, etc., but they are not looked after.
    in fact, u.s system of rule, tacitly or explicitly, asserts that that’s their own fault, since u.s governance and constitution is unemendable or unamendable to any degree.

    in short, u.s governace and constitution is perfect and u’r not, obviously it is u who’s not perfect or must be stupid, lazy, want smthing for nothing.
    and the wagons are circled!

    now if we look at highly interdependent and egalitarian societies, such as hopis, haydas, everybody worked and each possessing about the same. is it any wonder they had no jails, whores, police, rapists, wife beaters, pedophiles, rulers, supremacists, laws, governance, wars, priests, etcetc.

    in short, this represent a high cvilization. euroasians having high uncivilized societies. we cld emulate the first!
    alas, supremacists [clergy-nobility-job ‘givers’] wld never allow in such a civilized world! tnx

  32. jlohman said on November 19th, 2010 at 8:07am #

    Thanks Kim. Finally someone that doesn’t speak gibberish yet actually has an option. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parecon sounds good. What country has such a system and how is it working?

    And bozh, do you ever reread your comment before hitting the submit button? Try it.

  33. bozh said on November 19th, 2010 at 8:18am #

    in fact, thruout history, there was always and is now more work to do than the hands to do it.
    unemployment was created by supremacists [clergy-noble class]. one doesn’t have to go even to an honest school to figure way it had been invented!

    honest, egalitarian schooling we’ve never had and never will in any supremacistic society.
    it, like unemployment, robs people of their humanity and, too boot, dehumanizes people. how else is one going to obtain meat for wars?
    that’s the reason, damn it, that i am also a fascist!

    evocation of great perils had also been invented by clerico-noble set of lowlife.
    it is very useful tool in cowing people and obtaining obedience.
    more cld be said. tnx

  34. bozh said on November 19th, 2010 at 8:40am #

    jack,
    have no time to reread my post; too busy thinking to do that. damn it, i do reread my posts but almost always make at least one mistake!
    and there are times when i forget to reread my posts! but, nevertheless, most people get the message.
    the key in talking with people is to ensure that message sent is the message received.
    it is not always so. due to wrong syntax, spelling, leaving a word out thru forgetfulness, writing simply, etc., my messages do get lost.
    tnx for reminder! caveat ab. my messages. it shld be “our messages”. nearly everything i say is well known by some people!

  35. jlohman said on November 19th, 2010 at 10:13am #

    >>> “…most people get the message?”

    Perhaps those who are willing to decipher all of your shorthand eventually get the message. But those who have given up on you don’t.

  36. bozh said on November 19th, 2010 at 10:32am #

    jack,
    what does “political system” mean? do u mean to say what governmental structure; i.e., system of rule i want. don’t please ask what we want! we all think differently; thus, each of us may have a different structure of governance in mind.
    are u aware of this or are u trying to sow confusion?

    political system? ok, find us one? u cannot find it because it is totally hidden or obscured by supremacistic theories, half truths, outright lies, deception, etc.
    and whatever it may turn out to be, its is till part of any governance; governance
    not being part of it.
    clever, u? not at all!

    so what do i want? i don’t want whores, ‘jobgivers’, private dissemination of info, ‘lwas’, jails, police, fbi, cia, wmd artillery, tanks, private spies. judges, ‘educators’ clergy, ‘schools’, etcetc.
    all of that i wld replace with what, say, crees, had. it’s up to others to put their cards dwn and stop for a few seconds beating joshua or bush and around bushes! tnx

  37. Don Hawkins said on November 19th, 2010 at 10:46am #

    The only route to monetary gain in a parecon (if there are people that have only that interest in a parecon) is to work hard and benefit society as a whole.[9]
    Wiki

    Kim I looked that up and knowing full well what’s coming down the track if we wish to try could be a way of thinking. So far of course in say the Roman I mean United States Senate the big decision is do we tax the wealthy or not. Some might laugh at that Roman part when in reality not all that funny. To work hard and benefit society as a whole what a concept.

    The true value of a human being is determined by the measure and the sense in which they have obtained liberation from the self. We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

  38. jlohman said on November 19th, 2010 at 10:58am #

    bozh, if you want to avoid discussing the ideal political system, we are stuck with what we have (or what the politicians are willing to give us). But I disagree: *IF* 100% of the public were honest we could have a system without laws. But they aren’t and we don’t.

    But worse, we have a political system (call it government if you want) that is on the take. Politicians take cash bribes to pass laws that benefit the briber. That must change, and Kim’s suggestion may be one option. But it may take a rebellion to get there because the current Pols are not going to go willingly.

    Also I’d like to know if any other countries are using this, or is it just pie in the ski? Wishful thinking?

  39. Don Hawkins said on November 19th, 2010 at 11:15am #

    Jack take a deep breath now count backwards from 10 ok ever hear of the 2020 party of course you haven’t because so far there is no such thing a real third party that would make the tea party look like mere child’s play. Don’t like the name fine let’s talk.

  40. jlohman said on November 19th, 2010 at 11:33am #

    So this parecon sounds like direct democracy, but at the very least would have to replace much in our constitution.

  41. Don Hawkins said on November 19th, 2010 at 11:40am #

    The constitution well that’s out as we all know it can’t be improved on written in stone so to speak.

  42. bozh said on November 19th, 2010 at 11:50am #

    jack,
    aren’t u conflating any politicking [ really a very narrow field of inquiry] with governance which covers or shld cover ALL OF IT AT POINT OF TIME!
    ALL OF IT, that’s what children shld be taught.

    influence of such religions as psychiatry, talmudism, christianity, islam, et al which are devoted to the supremacist class of life and are actually part of it, kids shld know about.
    and there are other salient factors/actors for our miseries.
    however, telling children of a few salient actors-factors for, say, warfare, wld suffice; more to get as they are growing; so that education never ever ends.

    of necessary truth there is an adequate system of governance and structure of society.
    i suggest we try a timocratic and pantisocratic governance; never ever a democratic one like that of, say, india!
    of course, there may always be people who do not want to participate in running a country.
    and we shldn’t pressure them to do it. but we cld obtain, say a 90% participation in running OUR AFFAIRS.

    in such a governance, education for all those who wanted it, wld never be free. educated people wld more than pay back for any free education. so, what if not?
    and look how much talent we lose by not providing free education and work for all!

    as i said, there is more work than the hands available to do it. however, right to work-govern had been taken away from us. what one has is ‘jobgiver’ but only after depriving u of ur right to work!

    so, we can call the new governance “timocracy” [rule for the honor of ruling] and which wld including allowing people not only to vote for changes but also against changes, measures, laws, etcetc.
    in u.s, people really only vote for a person! never allowed to vote against anything.
    and u.s being a region with 1 k disunited ethnic groups and each folk having at least one serious grievance against at least one other volk, and one obtains a bedlam which twelve lucianos cld rule foerever.
    tnx

  43. bozh said on November 19th, 2010 at 12:12pm #

    jack,
    i said ‘laws’ and not laws. what we have in u.s is lawlessness; i.e., dikats which absolutely no one can understand. or can, but only by preselected-elected people.
    the lawpeople usually compete with one another which one can say nothing in several thousand words or more.

    even a prez had to ask a lawperson if waterboarding is legal. meanwhile the suppremes, after a an eight-year nap, discovered that it’s smwhat [il]legal.
    so much for: we r a nation of laws!
    neoindians in palestina, iraq know much about such laws! tnx

  44. jlohman said on November 19th, 2010 at 12:14pm #

    Call it what you want. We have one major problem in our so-called democracy… corruption. That’s what I’m fighting. Those who disagree should fight against me.

  45. Don Hawkins said on November 19th, 2010 at 12:37pm #

    The word corrupt (Middle English, from Latin corruptus, past participle of corrumpere, to destroy : com-, intensive pref. and rumpere, to break) when used as an adjective literally means “utterly broken”.[1] In modern English usage the words corruption and corrupt have many meanings: Wiki

    You see in English corrupt, corruption have many meanings and takes certain people with great knowledge to understand all the meanings and much to complex for the average Joe to even attempt that. The meaning is in the message or is that the message is in the meaning or is that total BS.

  46. Don Hawkins said on November 19th, 2010 at 1:14pm #

    Jack you stay with us here on DV and how about if I started a business make pomegranate and blueberry juice organic. Where I live we can grow both and we do it all from the field to the person who drink’s it. No insecticides or chemical fertilizers yes labor more labor is needed. The people who work in the field make as much money as the people who work in our factory that is run with renewable energy and the people who take the juice to market also make the same wage. Since I started the business guess what I make the same as the people who work in the field. Now in old twenty ten any more profit is put in a lock box. In the off season all of us go to as a start New York City and practice something called civil disobedience hell we could stop in West Virginia on the way up. Yes the money from the lock box and when we get to New York City my first choice would be Goldman Sach’s with Fox New’s a close second and or Wall Street. Faint of heart need not apply probably eighteen years of age at least oh and think of this as kind of a war.

  47. Deadbeat said on November 19th, 2010 at 3:40pm #

    Here I’m in complete agreement with jlohman … most participants here don’t know that the hell bozh is yakking on about. In fact IMO it is rather disruptive because it affects the flow of the discussion and debate. As an example in the middle of this discussion he writes …

    i wonder what “regulated capitalism” means. and then i wonder about what “capitalism” means. and what does “regulate” mean. does capitalism mean some of us work and ‘earn’ enough to have a mansion, yacht, plane and others just enough to survive. still others have no work.

    Regulated Capitalism is pretty self-explanatory and most people understand what Capitalism is. The hard question is describing its replacement. While I believe that Parecon is flawed (and do not trust Michael Albert) for people like Mr. Lohman it is a good place to start to understand that there are people who do have anti-Capitalist views and have thoughtful considerations. Essentially if Mr. Lohman is really looking for answer and is willing to challenge his assumption then it is not a bad place to start but it shouldn’t be his final stop.

    Clearly Mr. Lohman is passionate about confronting “corruption”. What he hasn’t put together is that “corruption” is endemic of Capitalism. This is not a problem of a “few bad apples” that can be solved by regulations. For some reason bozh has been asleep for the past 70 years since that is how long Keynesianism has been around.

  48. bozh said on November 19th, 2010 at 8:43pm #

    so, i admit i don’t know what “capitalism” is; i.e., what traits the label stands for.
    it seems that people do not distinguish labels, say, u.s constitution, its flag, or capitalism and what these symbols stand for in reality.

    and i do evaluate that a number of people do not understand what i have just said.
    they simply confuse nonfacts with facts or reality!
    they just refuse to be confused by facts while perfectly undertanding nonfacts.

    they confuse clinton’s or obama’s brilliant speeches, often not containing a single fact, with facts.
    by deadbeats knowledge, i shld know what capitalism “IS”, but not what capitalism does.
    i suppose that i shld also know what a flag, god, or democracy “IS” so long as i do not see or know what, say, a god does.

    but at least DB avoids getting personal; attacks solely what i said; in spite of the fact that he asserted many times that he cld not understand what we are saying.
    so, go figure!
    and he even said he wld not read our crap. but make my day, and don’t read our knowledge.
    he doesn’t understand anything we say, but smhow still understands that what we say is wrong, bad, disruptive. tnx

  49. hayate said on November 19th, 2010 at 9:29pm #

    Deadbeat said on November 19th, 2010 at 3:40pm

    I pretty much second this post.

    But I’ll add that the sort of corruption one sees in capitalist countries can not, and will not, be cured by simply moving the funding of political campaigns from private/corporate sources to providing the funding by taxing the populace. The corruption is throughout the system, from the ground up and what [s]elects politicians in the usa goes much deeper than who and how much funds their campaigns. The primary selector is the media. I have mentioned this and so have several others, jack ignores this primary aspect. Changing the funding source will not effect how the ziofascist/fascist owned corporate media plugs their bois and grrrlz to the exclusion or slander of all others. It wont change the fact that politicians are selected by a process unrelated to campaign funding. They are selected by business groups (with zionist ones of these giving final approval) before the question who funds their campaign arises. The loyalty is placed here, before the politician runs. These people then determine how the media will cover the prospective/veteran politician and the media either elects the new comer, or makes sure the incumbent is [s]elected. There is also “diebold”, to make sure important races “go as planned”.

    As for threats of prosecution for wrong doing, get real. There are plenty of laws covering political corruption, they are selectively enforced, when enforced at all. It’s a situation of the fox running the hen house, to borrow that tired cliche. The source of “fox” power is rich people dominating the whole process from top to bottom. If one wants real change, and not just a larger piece of the pie (that’s you, jack), the rich got to go and so does their capitalist system of control.

    As for parecon, it’s a halfway house for capitalist junkies, in my opinion. It’s an intermediate step in recovery. But not a fully sustainable final arrangement.

  50. hayate said on November 19th, 2010 at 9:39pm #

    I should add we need to get BACK to the point where we did not need to profit to have a decent life.

    “Back” is capitalised for a reason.

  51. bozh said on November 19th, 2010 at 9:45pm #

    hayate,
    did see past symbols or below symbols. he sees, correctly, that campaign contribution, elections are mere symbols; a mere show business. the underlying reality, solely mattering.
    he sees it correctly, imo. of course, i am paraphrasing him, but do think that his explanation is adequate w.o. us adding our own!
    it is a good thing to look not only at a bra, but also what’s behind it. why r there even elections? but, of course, for show and don’t tell! tnx

  52. Don Hawkins said on November 20th, 2010 at 3:47am #

    My above comment could it work well no as a few hundred people the system as of now wouldn’t even see it and then go to a commercial message. The system likes all these different groups yes keep them divided.

  53. jlohman said on November 20th, 2010 at 7:53am #

    Seems we have some on this thread that believe that “political money” does not work as intended. We are in deep trouble.