Two Million at Rightwing March?

It was about 11:30 a.m., and a speaker at the September 12 “Taxpayer March on Washington” announced that their crowd estimate was one and a half million people. I didn’t believe it, but I wanted to see for myself. I’m pretty good at crowd estimates after over 40 years of participating in and organizing big demonstrations.

As I circulated around and throughout the crowd for the next hour and a half, I heard someone say that CNN was giving a figure of 2 million. People were excited. Was this the beginning of the right-winger revolution?

That question remains to be answered—almost certainly it’s a “no”—but one thing is clear: there weren’t anywhere near 1 ½ or 2 million people at this coming together of the ideological super-rightists of the USA. When your crowd only goes from the West Capitol steps to 3rd St., 100 yards or so past the reflecting pool, not even on the mall, and with big holes in the ranks of Obama haters within that real estate, 100,000 is more like it, and that may be generous.

To compare, I checked out a picture of the 1995 Million Man March organized by the African American community. Estimates of that march ranged from a ridiculously low 400,000 by the National Park Service to a BBC estimate of 1.9 million. Here’s a link to a picture of that event. Note the reflecting pool in the front that the “taxpayers” today barely got past.

But hey, 100,000 people is nothing to sneeze at. I’d take a peace demonstration, or a climate, or a healthcare, or a jobs, or one linking all four issues right now that had that many people, hands down. That’d be a political jolt to the system that is very much needed.

Today, however, was the day of the right-wing tea baggers.

Here are some of the things that I was struck by as I observed the signs (mostly hand-made, it should be pointed out), heard the speeches and listened to the comments and discussion of those around me:

* Though the efforts in Congress to pass climate and health care legislation were put forward by the organizers as the two motivating issues, this was very much a “multi-issue” crowd. Indeed, more than those two issues, what seemed to be most dominant was overt hatred for Obama and the (currently liberal) government. There were signs with Obama with a Hitler mustache. “ObamaCare Makes Me Sick” was a popular one. Others included “Get the Dictators Out of the White House,” “No to Obama’s Radical Agenda,” “Worst Marxist President Ever,” “One Big Ass Mistake America (put together the first letters),” and the delusional “I’m More Afraid of Obama than Osama.”

* The anti-government ones included, “Kick Out Marxist Czars” (there was a lot of talk from the stage and lettering on the signs about “czars” in government, apparently the influence of radio-talk-hater-racist supreme Glenn Beck), “Free Markets Work, Big Government Doesn’t,” “No to Government Spending, Health Care, Interference,” and “Debt, Corruption, Loss of Freedom.”

* Other signs of note: “Freedom and Democracy, Not Socialism,” “Abolish ACORN” (there were a number of anti-ACORN signs), “Uphold the Constitution” (also repeated a number of times), “We Don’t Redistribute Wealth, We Earn It,” “Joe Wilson: A Politician with Courage,” and “Cap and Trade Congress.” There were relatively few signs about the cap and trade/climate issue, surprisingly.

* There was also a 100%, complete and total absence from either the stage or people’s signs of any negative words about banks and corporations. Given that the right wing historically is not generally a fan of bankers and monopolies, and given the widespread unpopularity of the recent multi-trillion dollar handouts to banks, this seemed significant. It may be that the hatred of our first African American President was so strong that it crowded out this “economic royalist” issue. Or maybe the well-connected organizers used their influence to prevent this issue from being raised.

* At one point a speaker from the stage led the crowd in a chant of “universal health care is a big fat no.” More often chanted, however, was the good old patriotic standby, “USA, USA, USA.”

* A person handing out small American flags got a lot of knowing smiles as he said that people should get them before they’re outlawed. Yeah, that’s really going to happen.

* For a city that is majority African American, this was an incredibly mono-chromatic demonstration. After seeing a black person about a half-hour after arriving, I began counting, one by one. I saw about a dozen over a period of 2 ½ hours. It was similar as far as people with Asian and Latin features.

* There were also relatively few young people, perhaps, at most, 5% of the crowd. It was a middle-aged and older crowd.

* Finally, there was a lot of anti-two-party sentiment expressed from the stage, not so much via the homemade signs, but when speakers castigated both Democrats and Republicans, they got a rousing response. One speaker said that the Republicans of today are like the Democrats of 20 years ago, and the Democrats of today want to “take over all of our lives.”

So is there political significance to today’s demonstration?

I’m not sure there is. What it felt to me was that it reflected, more than anything else, the current minority status of the Republicans in Congress and their loss of the White House. This was a delayed reaction to the results of the November, 2008 elections. It was the use of a tactic used repeatedly by the Left during the eight years of the Bush/Cheney gang because we had little governmental power and very limited options when it came to the federal government until 2006 when the Democrats took control of both houses of Congress. And we didn’t have too much then.

This reality of relative powerlessness is currently the situation of the right-wingers.

They’ve clearly gotten some political traction from the way that the Democrats handled the health care issue, at least up until Obama’s Wednesday evening speech, as well as from all of the angst about the House cap and trade bill. Whether they are able to continue to do so going forward from today’s action will to a large extent, short term, depend upon how the Democrats follow up from Obama’s speech, and beyond that how they handle the climate, Wall Street regulation and other issues.

There was one other political dynamic —speakers and signs about the U.S. as a “Christian nation.” One sign said, “Proud Christian American.” More than one speaker got a good response from the crowd by calling upon them to stand up for Christian values.

As we interact with this movement in the coming months and years, we need to call them out on this lie. It is not Christian to oppose universal health care as an objective, which these people do. It is not Christian to oppose all efforts to address the climate crisis, to deny that it exists. Talk about a “right to life” issue! It is not Christian to demonize low-income people from south of the U.S. border who come here to try to find work to keep themselves and their families alive, as speakers did from the stage.

Ultimately, many of the sentiments expressed by the tea-baggers are deeply dishonest, deeply un-American. We need to keep them in their rightful place as a distinct, if sometimes loud, sometimes dangerous, political minority. We will do that to the extent that we out-organize them at the grassroots, engage in creative and mass action, and pressure the federal government to pass genuinely progressive legislation. That’s the way we’ll keep down the supporters of Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck.

Ted Glick works with Beyond Extreme Energy and is president of 350NJ-Rockland. Past writings and other information, including about Burglar for Peace and 21st Century Revolution, two books published by him in 2020 and 2021, can be found at He can be followed on Twitter at Read other articles by Ted.

43 comments on this article so far ...

Comments RSS feed

  1. Don Hawkins said on September 14th, 2009 at 10:30am #

    Ted the President of the United States just gave a speech on the economy and Wall Street. I hear there was silence on the floor of the stock exchange. Regulations is going to solve the problem problems we face I think not. First of all cap and trade does nothing except make more people on Wall Street money that would be the trade part. Cap and trade is a joke on the human race. Tax carbon and tax it hard and return part of that tax back to the people. What are the chances that will happen. Even if cap and trade could pass in a watered down form it doesn’t start until 2012. The last time I checked we are out of time to try. The speech the President gave today is causing a few ripples with the have and have more people and the speech is not even close to what needs to be done. You have the market system Capitalism that needs more then more that’s just the way it work’s. This profit system will end in a few years and so will many life forms on this Planet. We have cap and trade then Copenhagen and both look now to be nothing more than illusion well we know cap and trade is and Copenhagen close behind. Then very sure the bullshit, illusion on a grade scale will start. Many of us will know the truth and will that do any good? I don’t know but let’s not forget the problem itself will show itself more and more. Strange day’s ahead. Let’s see what January 2010 looks like on the third planet from the Sun.

  2. Don Hawkins said on September 14th, 2009 at 10:52am #

    Does the President understand how serious climate is and what it means for all of us? Does he know that we have about nine years to level out the gases or we probably can’t slow the problem? He sure does. Same for the people on Wall Street do they know yes most do and of course a few who never made it out of high school are good at lying to themselves. Do the people high upon the hill know of course they do. Just the next few months let’s watch them lie like dogs. That’s LIE like dogs.

  3. b99 said on September 14th, 2009 at 10:54am #

    Don – Cap and trade is a sham, but are you saying you don’t believe in regulations? I wish Obama had gone at least as far as Europeans recommended – a strong regulatory environment.

  4. b99 said on September 14th, 2009 at 11:04am #

    Don – As far as climate goes, the last chance at nipping serious climate change was likely three decades ago during the Carter Administration. But Carter’s admonitions were labeled ‘malaise’ by Wall St and with Reagan’s ascension, attempts to reverse climate change can not only to a grinding halt, but put into reverse. We can do what we can today – but it is likely too late to prevent catastrophic change.

  5. lichen said on September 14th, 2009 at 2:11pm #

    The inability of these idiots to realize that the big corporations are not them, are not on their side or setup to benefit them, as opposed to democratic institutions such as government which are answerable to the people, is maddening. But yes, the sickening mainstream media will exaggerate their numbers and political relevance. They are a circus sideshow, the ones who certainly bought obama’s “change” line the most–when nothing has changed at all since bush.

    As far as Copenhagen, I think it is absurdly ironic that they chose one of the places most likely to withstand a lot of climate change–a politically stable northern country. Why not hold it on one of the island nations that is swiftly sinking into the sea? Why not on the dry cracking earth of Africa or Australia? Why not fly the diplomats over the melting glaciers and invite anyone who doesn’t believe a closeup view through the hatch? We still have time–precious little time, but we do have enough to stop really catastrophic, life-killing climate change; but the shift has to be immediate, swift, and right fucking now; instead of fifty or one hundred years, the carbon clock needs to revert back to zero within like 5-10.

  6. ilene hanna said on September 14th, 2009 at 2:16pm #

    “Ultimately, many of the sentiments expressed by the tea-baggers are deeply dishonest, deeply un-American. We need to keep them in their rightful place as a distinct, if sometimes loud, sometimes dangerous, political minority.”

    I am getting so sick of seeing emotionally charged articles, all over the internet these days that rarely discuss the FACTS!

    First off, I would say its dishonest to insinuate that Obama is some kind of “progressive”. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As I read and listen these days to both sides, the left and right (which I am proud to say I am neither and do not support either republican or democrat ideology) it is becoming clear that we live in a totally ignorant nation. Both sides are spewing radical nonsense at every turn.

    Calling people a “dangerous minority” is more emotional hype. They have every right to protest, even if we do not agree with them. And the author of this article really does not seem to be able to shed any factual data except his own emotional and one-sided views, VERY biased to say the least.

    First off, Obama is not progressive. Facts show he has been a supporter of the wars. He voted for funding of such and during his campaign made many statements that showed beyond a doubt that he would expand the wars rather than stop them. The stupid democrats vote this guy in and continue to support him (JUST AS THE RIGHT DID WITH BUSH) when all the facts are in. Also, Obama supported Bush bailouts by his vote. That is FACT. He has pandered to the Central Bankers all the way. He has retained Bush and Clinton cabinet and central players in economic advisory.

    He supports the expansion of Corporate Health Care by supporting a fascist legislation that would FORCE people with no insurance to buy from one of the several sleezy and corrupt insurance companies.

    This is FACT. he said so in his speech and the legislation (to date) is posted on your representatives sites. Also in that bill, the government will have the right to seize people’s property if they do not pay up OR pay unconstitutional fines.

    FACT: Obama does not want trials for the Torturers. The very torturers that tortured children! He says we should move on. If I went and tortured a neighbor’s child, would the law be so generous?

    FACT: Obama has done nothing about all the constitution trashing that Bush did. The Posse comatatus, Habeaus corpus, spying on Americans, etc etc etc have been left untouched by this man. Why???

    The Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act of 2007 is alive and well. AND if you are paying attention you will have noticed more and more the media is speaking about homegrown terrorists. The VIOLENT AMERICAN SYSTEM IS BEING TURNED ON YOU STUPIDS!! And you waste your ridiculous breath on people who AT LEAST IF NOTHING ELSE have the gumption to protest what is on their minds. It may not be what YOU think they should be protesting.

    BUT where was the so-called progressives during 8 years of dictatorship of Bush? Almost every stupid corporate paid whore politician on the LEFT supported Bush wars and all his draconian anti-American bills and executive orders.

    If anything I hate the left more than the right. THEY are the ones who seem to be the most dishonest.

    At least those on the right have specifics and stand by CONSISTENTLY with their confused views. I say confused, because they seem to think Obama is a socialist! Obama supports the Oligarchy and is actually owned by corporate america….which, in turn, is owned by the Central Bankers. This is where the right loses their credibility. The masses do not seem to understand what socialism is. Nor do they know the difference between TRUE free market and the current monopolistic controlled corporate capitalist system. (They don’t comprehend the economic system they live under, which is using their fear of socialism to promote and retain the power of the central bankers).

    AND getting very sick of the race card being played which is right on schedule btw.

    If you disagree with Israel or Israeli lobby groups you are anti-semitic. If you disagree with obama you are racist.

    Guess who wins? The Central Bankers, who own the political and corporate classes. Everyone has forgotten already the trillions they have looted from the nation. Central Bankers owe no allegiance to any nation, nor are they loyal to anyone but their own.

  7. Don Hawkins said on September 14th, 2009 at 2:54pm #

    Don – As far as climate goes, the last chance at nipping serious climate change was likely three decades ago

    Don – Cap and trade is a sham, but are you saying you don’t believe in regulations?

    B99 that is a very good example of what we see everyday from so called leaders. What good will regulations do for the economy if it’s to late to slow climate change? It’s not to late with a Herculean effort total focus as simple as possible but not simpler and have fun doing it calm at peace.

  8. B99 said on September 14th, 2009 at 3:39pm #

    Don – Well, the point of it all is not giving up – for me, it’s on the outside shot of being wrong about it being too late to reverse ever-serious climate change. So regulations have to be severe and without exception. It means giving up many many products based in petroleum, it means curtailing coal use asap and now, as opposed to Carter’s time, it may mean going nuclear. It won’t be fun. In fact, I don’t think we have the will power to bend capitalism in time – but we can’t just let it go.

  9. B99 said on September 14th, 2009 at 3:43pm #

    Lichen – Denmark is flat and barely above sea level. Rising seas will most certainly result in a smaller Denmark. And the Danes understand this all too well.

  10. lichen said on September 14th, 2009 at 3:52pm #

    Oh, definitely, the people of Denmark realize the implications of climate change upon them–but in general Scandinavia is likely to be one of the most safe places, and I think it is perhaps the wrong context for international leaders to meet in the cold and dark to discuss this. But that is all I will say about that.

  11. ron said on September 14th, 2009 at 4:02pm #

    The question remains–is this merely a tempest in a teabag or something more? I have friends and acquaintances who support this movement–they are all in their late 60s and 70s and are predominantly white men. I think the underlying current of much of this is the fear of being ruled by a black man. That reality scares the hell out of these people.
    The movement itself is reminiscent of the movement led by Buzz Windrip in Sinclair Lewis’s novel It Can’t Happen Here. Red, white and blue fascism. The weakness of the Democrats and most progressives in the face of this movement only enables the right wing.

  12. Don Hawkins said on September 14th, 2009 at 4:16pm #

    We are starting to see what giving up means and that is not fun. The people so called leaders know full well how serious climate change is and yet they just lie like dogs. Yes it will not be easy and yes to late for millions maybe more but we must try. The regulations Obama is talking about is illusion meaningless. Cap and trade is the best they can do, why? Because money and power and arrogance is still running the show. I want to see just the next few months after Copenhagen and the cap and trade bill then the witting the thinking boring it will not be. When I say fun what we see now the thinking the lack of thinking the bullshit just more brainwashing on a grand scale and it is here now is not fun. To try for real to try and make this happen to try will be a good feeling a real good feeling. Yes not easy but what we see now and feel living in this dream World that just a few feel is best for us well as for me think of this as kind of a war wise one’s and your great wisdom. Get ready the you know what is going to hit the fan.

  13. Myles Hoenig said on September 14th, 2009 at 4:28pm #

    This article gives a pass to Democrats. From day 1, any single Democrat in the House or the Senate could have stalled the war, stopped the spending, and demanded that the Bush administration be held accountable for war crimes. The Republicans do that very well when they are in the majority. But they have a spine whereas the Democrats are invertebrates.

  14. Don Hawkins said on September 14th, 2009 at 5:05pm #

    The truth the knowledge will not stay silent” oh great one’s”.

  15. Kelly said on September 14th, 2009 at 11:41pm #

    The bias of the author and most of the posts is clear.

    I am a religious person and so are most of you: my worship is aimed at a deity and yours is aimed at “climate change”. Both are a bit ethereal, put forth as untouchable, undoubtable, inarguable, etc.

    I had no opinion whatsoever on global warmer (notice how that term has been dispelled in favor of climate change) but had to do a research paper in college and was absolutely floored by the lack of evidence or the misplaced evidence this topic achieves. Speaking of which, I can’t wait to see the venom my post will receive.

    I no longer feel that either major party represents the average American worker and am now fully in favor of voting everyone out. Im not the least bit worried about losing talent or experience since this administration so ably demonstrates that none is really needed as long as you can speak well, throw in some great sounding terms, and have utter contempt for individual personal achievment.

  16. Annie Ladysmith said on September 15th, 2009 at 2:39am #

    i read this crap and sometimes i wonder am i on the earth or have i been abducted during the night and left in the pixie village on the Lord of the Rings set.

    HELLO! I know all you want to discuss is, GLOBAL WARMING , but the many facts and figures, and wars, means most of us will have more important things to deal with. Here’s a list: Drought and Famine, epidemic lethal Swine flu with 7 aa, (they have already thought ahead to get millions of plastic coffins), ‘Quarantine’ in FEMA ‘camps’, a trade war with China, nuclear bombing exchange with China, more nuclear bombing exchange with Russia, the devaluation of the dollar to ‘worthless’ nothing ending the downward spiral into a massive coast to coast depression.
    What the tea-baggers are terrified of is losing EACH AND EVERYONE of the Bill of Rights. We are actually in a lawless society since we do not have a constitution that is honored to protect our basic rights. The tea-baggers are too nice they need to be hurling crap at the Capital since that’s what Congress is hurling at us. How dare any of you say it is because of prejudice, is that really all you can come up with, pathetic!
    Yellowstone is going to blow way before the oceans cover us over due to ‘global warming’, when Yellowstone blows it WILL take out half the continent, that’s a fact, not mumbo-gumbo voodoo, let’s look in our crystal ball to see the temp, rise.
    When government makes peaceful protest impossible, it thereby makes violent protest unavoidable.

  17. Don Hawkins said on September 15th, 2009 at 5:18am #

    Annie, Annie, Annie. Yellowstone is going to blow before the oceans cover us? Could happen but the knowledge tell’s us 40 feet of sea level rise will come first. Greenland with the level of gas we have in the atmosphere right now should not have ice if that gas was done on natural time scales not human time scales. You add West Antarctica and 40 feet as a start. You talk of freedom in clowntown USA so that’s freedom what we see. The problems we face and profit, Capitalism will not work a nobrainer. Those tea party’s were nothing more than a joke in clowntown USA organized by big this and that to keep people in slavery. The signs at the little get together you call that knowledge sorry thought up in rooms of big this and that. Just a few people using myth to control that yes has been done for 10k years now the story of the human race doesn’t end well. For me no matter how this play’s out to try is much much better than the arrogance, illusion, bullshit we see now. These few have a big problem it’s called the truth the knowledge that in just the last few years has made giant steps and granted the few are still doing there best to hold onto the illusion and are now looking like total idiot’s. Let’s see how the next few months go on the illusion part.

  18. Don Hawkins said on September 15th, 2009 at 5:50am #

    STOCKHOLM — Sweden’s environment minister urged the U.S. Senate on Monday to pass legislation to control greenhouse gases, saying a delay in the vote is impeding negotiations on a new international climate treaty.

    Minister Andreas Carlgren said America’s complex debate over health care reforms is sidelining its vote on a climate bill that is needed to persuade other nations — especially the fast-growing economies of India and China — to commit to lowering their greenhouse gas emissions at the Copenhagen climate summit in December.

    “It is crucial that the Americans deliver a reliable emission pathway,” Carlgren said, referring to a plan for how emissions will be cut to stated targets. “But that is dependent on the Senate’s lawmaking.” ap

    Just think in a few months we get to see more signs thought up in rooms of big this and that and our so called leaders lie like dogs. In other Countries many of the people thinkers will say what happened to those Americans they seem to have gone over the edge and they would be right. Full speed ahead in Clowntown USA.

  19. Don Hawkins said on September 15th, 2009 at 7:15am #

    Remember these words from James Lovelock. The last sentence and what we should be doing. Are we doing or planing even one thing just one for the future. I know Ted is trying and will take all of us. In twenty years I would be 81.

    JL: Yes, I think it has. The Earth is already moving towards a hotter state in response to the changes we’ve made in transforming much of the surface of the planet and adding CO2 into the atmosphere.
    Let’s not forget that the Earth was once nearly entirely forested and those forests were a major part of a living planet’s regulatory system.
    Based on Gaia theory at some point in the future there will be a sudden shift to a new global climate that may be 5 or 6 degrees Celsius warmer on average than today. I have no idea when that shift might happen but my guess is that we may have 20 years to prepare.

    What will this new climate be like?

    JL: The tropical and subtropical zones of the Earth will be too hot and dry to grow food or support human life. People will be forced to migrate towards the poles to places like Canada. There will be less than one billion people by the end of the century. My hope is that we will stay civilised and those in the North will give refuge to the unimaginably large numbers of climate refugees.

    JL: I’m not saying there is nothing we can do. I am saying that many of the “green” alternatives like wind energy are at best tokens. Germany is a world leader (second to the United States) in wind energy, and its carbon emissions have increased.
    It is so difficult to make significant cuts in carbon emissions. And the real problem is that the total human footprint from nearly seven billion people is far more than the planet can support under current conditions.
    What we should be doing is protecting all remaining forests, return much of our farmland into its natural state and utilise the oceans to sequester carbon and get our food from some form of biosynthesis.

  20. mikel weisser said on September 15th, 2009 at 8:51am #

    Great article. I was at the Sept. 17th, 2007 anti-war march in DC, same weekend same march, different intentions of course, and based on photos i took then and the photos being shown now, our crowd was bigger than the the sept. 12th and the park service only estimated out crowd at 15,000 though others went as high as 100,000. I’m satisfied with around 50,000. Which is still bigger than the photos of the right-wing group. Of course men always claim thing are bigger when there’s no solid way to compare. The point is how come they got all that coverage and all the years of protests against the war got less attention than that one rightwing event?

    An additional comment about those who object to bias in the writing on this site: Catch a clue, this isn’t a news site, it’s an opinion site, people are going to write from their opinions. Coming to Dissident Voice for “just the facts” is almost as foolish as going to Fox News.

    Humans can’t honesty express news without their opinions embedded. At least here, few writers pretend otherwise.

  21. Don Hawkins said on September 15th, 2009 at 9:22am #

    To sustain this parasitic industry every other sector must be cut. Yesterday the Guardian revealed that the government is now prepared to cut the health and overseas aid budgets – both hitherto considered sacrosanct – to plug the deficits caused by Britain’s bankers(15). Every new arrival on the dole queues, every delayed operation or potholed road or crowded classroom for the next two generations will be achievements to be laid at the gates of the City of London. Yet the bankers have seldom had it so good.

    And in the States the bankers have seldom had it so good. What do you think most bankers a little right of center.

  22. big bad bozh said on September 15th, 2009 at 10:04am #

    hey, kids, what have u not yet noticed? Or have u!?
    Well, i’ll tell u: Amerika is not only the old europe but also the oldest europe, chaldea, and MD.

    have u noticed that there is no longer nationalism in amerika and, thus, no amerrrikans?
    But surely u must have noticed that there never was a constitution in ‘rika!
    Or, rather, there was /is but it says [after u do some peeling]: No prez can be wrong, no matter what he do or not do.
    s/he can be impeached but not for being wrong, but because the 2% [or is it o.3%] of nonamericans who rule ‘rika don’t like his/her mustache and such things.
    OK! enough of that. Please don’t believe nything i say. Even my small head thinks that my toes are now to short to hang onto anything. tnx

  23. United-Socialist-Front said on September 15th, 2009 at 10:06am #


    “The great men are necessary, the time in which they appear is accidental; that they almost always become masters over their age is only because they are stronger, because they are older, because for a longer time much was gathered for them.” -Twilight of the Idols


    How can we ask and demand american regular people to revolt and protest against the US capitalist system and against the US government.

    My personal view and thesis about USA politics, is that the leaders of the left in this country are the ones who have to unite into a single pole, into a United Front and present a program, an alternative political program to the masses, for the 2012 elections, or for the 2016 elections.

    So “Socialism from bellow” doesn’t work in countries like USA. What we need is a “Socialism from Above” using the Josef Stalin, and Mao Tse Tung theory of doing the revolution by stages with the help of the national-bourgeoise and from above, led by a class of intellectual burocrat leftists. Like Rafael Correa, Evo Morales and Hugo Chavez are doing, which is a Stalinist Socialistm from above, not from bellow.


  24. United-Socialist-Front said on September 15th, 2009 at 10:09am #




    Don’t believe in the ultra-right wing, libertarian conspiracy theorists. The Tea Party, libertarian, ultra-right wing movement is funded by Republican Party corporations like Wal Mart to destroy the American Socialist Parties. And socialism, welfare-state is the only solution to reduce poverty levels in USA.

    Here are 2 great links explaining why libertarianism is corrupt-capitalism, a fascist, far-right oligarchic ideology and a very wrong ideology to benefit business-owners not the homeless, poor blacks and poor latinos who are beating the bullets in America:

    beware of the far-right, libertarian conspiracy theory movement that rose after 9-11. Many in the conspiracy-theory movement are siding with the Tea Party, town hall protests (I lost my interest for Michael Rivero and Alex Jones when these 2 conspiracists sided with the Tea Party Town Hall protests)

    Beware of libertarianism !! A very fascist ideology within the US Gov. USA government and system is so libertarian that it even has Federal Express (private mail) trying to destroy the US gov. mail (USPS) US postal Service. Even Amtrak (US gov. trains) have victim of sabotage by libertarian think tanks in America like The heritage club, the john birsch society (free market think tanks trying to force pure free market in USA)

    The Tea Naggers aka Beckerheads did not see that it was their unchecked economic philosophy that caused the economy to tank. they somehow do see that the same unchecked philosophy will fix it. They did not see it is that same unchecked philosophy which has caused health care prices to soar, causing hardships on individuals and most economic institutions. But once again they do see that more of the same will somehow cure it. They did not see that in the Health Care Bill it specifically states in all caps that, Illegal Immigrants will not be allowed to participate in this plan. They again somehow see that it will provide insurance for illegal immigrants. They did not see the Voluntary provisions for living wills, but did see mandatory death panels in its place. Now they are yelling on CNN “Tell the truth, Tell the Truth” and “No more lies, No more lies” O.K. here it is. You all are to civil debate, what professional wrestling is to the Olympics. You are to logic, what the perpetual motion machine is to physics. You are to intellectual honesty, what the Loch Ness monster is to the study of dinosaurs.


  25. b99 said on September 15th, 2009 at 10:15am #

    Lovelock is right that alternative sources of energy are largely tokens – and they are tokens that function to assuage us that progress is being made on the non-carbon energy front. Traditional energy companies don’t mind it if there are a few windmills here and there and a few solar panels here and there if these companies are still permitted to function and grow – and especially if these new-fangled energy sources are made to tie in to the company’s energy grid.

    It’s like recycling soda cans. In recycling we do free labor to offset the costs of the can producers – in the meantime they are producing more cans than ever – over and above the recycled cans. All that does is provide us with more cans to recycle while total ‘can load’ on the environment increases.

  26. b99 said on September 15th, 2009 at 10:24am #

    But USF – Stalin and Mao were demagogues, and Stalin can’t even be said to be a socialist/communist. These are mass murderers. You’re joking about these types being our political leaders, no? Jeez, I hope Morales and Chavez are not Stalinists. And Castro, what kind of liberation is that when the Supreme Leader refuses to get off the stage and eventually puts his brother in charge – Nepotisma-Socialistica?

  27. Synic3 said on September 15th, 2009 at 11:23am #

    The climate is definitely warming up. I visited many glaciers in different parts of the world and all of them have retreated significantly in the last couple of decades except one in Argentina.
    Whether that is due to green house effect gases or due to cyclic warming and cooling of the earth I don’t really know and I leave that to scientists.
    But difinitel we should reduce burning fossil fuels because of acid rain and the mercury it dumps in the world air and water and because of breathing all that polluted air!!
    The earth went through several cycles of warming and cooling and the ocean rose and fell several times before. Any good explanation for that.

  28. b99 said on September 15th, 2009 at 12:00pm #

    Synic – the natural cycles of warming and cooling have to do with the earth’s angle to the sun (now 23.5% but this changes over the eons), and its orbit around the sun, which trajectory changes ever so slightly over the eons.

    These processes are also going on now – ever so slowly. But they are supplemented or mitigated by known anthropogenic chemical processes – reactions that have been confirmed over and over in laboratory experiments. So when we measure molecular content in air, soil, and water and find substantial change – that is, to levels heretofore not existent on earth, we can only conclude that these changes are not only anthropogenic in origin, but will likely create environmental conditions that will cause havoc and displacement and require considerable ingenuity on the part of humans to cope with it.

  29. Don Hawkins said on September 15th, 2009 at 1:57pm #

    The middle East no water in 30 years the Mediterranean drought unlivable Central Europe same. There’s more. Here’s a thought Alligators Sweden 50 years.

    One of the little problems of course with climate change is it put’s a little monkey wrench in on time delivery. Considerable ingenuity and probably better to start now.

  30. Don Hawkins said on September 15th, 2009 at 2:39pm #

    In fact four of the five warmest decades in the past 2,000 years occurred after 1950, according to the study, which will be published tomorrow in the journal Science.

    The new study “doesn’t seem that surprising, but it’s good to confirm what researchers were already thinking,” said Bret-Harte, NG

    A Herculean effort and should be easy to see if we try.

  31. kalidas said on September 15th, 2009 at 5:16pm #

    Aren’t other planets and moons in our solar system also experiencing a similar proportionate warming?
    As in the sun.

  32. Don Hawkins said on September 15th, 2009 at 5:40pm #

    kalidas no they are not. The Earth’s atmosphere is a little unique, rare and not just in our solar system think bigger.

  33. lichen said on September 15th, 2009 at 6:04pm #

    James lovelock is a shill for the multi-billion nuclear industry, that is why he wrongly insists that solar, wind, tidal, and geothermal are not currently ready to run our world with a vastly lesser footprint. He wants to fill Gaiai with so much nuclear scrap that we will all be poisoned. Look up Harvery Wasserman, Don, if you really believe the nuclear line. Only someone who truly wants climate collapse would insist that green energy doesn’t work and therefore we better speed on ahead with oil, gas, and coal. Nuclear isn’t financially or environmentally feasible.

    And as for the ‘bias’ of this site, if you don’t like it, you can leave; everything is biased, and personally, I choose this bias and the bias of democracy now, counterpunch, to the biases of the new york times, cnn, and fox news.

  34. Don Hawkins said on September 15th, 2009 at 8:24pm #

    Forth generation nuclear could help and to me Lovelock is very good at looking at the big picture and telling it the way he see’s it. Unfortunately he has been right so far. How did he say that green is the color of money.

  35. Don Hawkins said on September 16th, 2009 at 7:12am #

    Dear George,
    On the desk in front of me is a set of graphs. The horizontal axis of each represents the years 1750 to 2000. The graphs show, variously, population levels, CO2 concentration in the atmosphere, exploitation of fisheries, destruction of tropical forests, paper consumption, number of motor vehicles, water use, the rate of species extinction and the totality of the human economy’s gross domestic product.
    What grips me about these graphs (and graphs don’t usually grip me) is that though they all show very different things, they have an almost identical shape. A line begins on the left of the page, rising gradually as it moves to the right. Then, in the last inch or so – around 1950 – it veers steeply upwards, like a pilot banking after a cliff has suddenly appeared from what he thought was an empty bank of cloud.
    The root cause of all these trends is the same: a rapacious human economy bringing the world swiftly to the brink of chaos. We know this; some of us even attempt to stop it happening. Yet all of these trends continue to get rapidly worse, and there is no sign of that changing soon. What these graphs make clear better than anything else is the cold reality: there is a serious crash on the way. Paul Kingsnorth

    Dear Paul,

    Yes, the words I use are fierce, but yours are strangely neutral. I note that you have failed to answer my question about how many people the world could support without modern forms of energy and the systems they sustain, but 2 billion is surely the optimistic extreme. You describe this mass cull as “a long descent” or a “retreat to a saner world”. Have you ever considered a job in the Ministry of Defence press office?

    I draw the trifling issue of a few billion fatalities to your attention not to make you look like a heartless fascist but because it’s a reality with which you refuse to engage. You don’t see it because to do so would be to accept the need for action. But of course you aren’t doing nothing. You propose to stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood, and, er … “get some perspective on the root cause of this crisis”. Fine: we could all do with some perspective. But without action – informed, focused and immediate – the crisis will happen. I agree that the chances of success are small. But they are non-existent if we give up before we have started. You mock this impulse as a “craving for control”. I see it as an attempt at survival.

    What could you do? You know the answer as well as I do. Join up, protest, propose, create. It’s messy, endless and uncertain of success. Perhaps you see yourself as above this futility, but it’s all we’ve got and all we’ve ever had. And sometimes it works. George Monbiot

    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler. Einstein

  36. lichen said on September 16th, 2009 at 1:20pm #

    Nuclear power contributes to global warming, is not carbon-free, is not safe, and certainly not renewable or recyclable. It can, however, pad a few billionares pockets and make the world a much more toxic place.

    Alan Weisman, The World Without Us wrote:
    “Together, the worlds 441 functioning nuclear plants annually produce almost 13,000 tons of high-level nuclear scrap.”

    “…Used nuclear fuel, some of it decades old, languishes in holding tanks. Oddly, it is up to a million times more radioactive than when it was fresh. While in the reactor, it began mutating into elements heavier than enriched uranium, such as isotopes of plutonium and americium. That process continues in the waste dumps, where used hot rods exchange neutrons and expel alpha and beta particles, gamma rays, and heat.”

    So, nuclear power currently makes up 14% of the worlds energy through 441 plants producing 13,000 tons of radioactive waste per year, which continues to concentrate into more poisonous radioactive sludge as is it stored. Let’s say if 100% of the worlds energy was made by nuclear power, that would make 3087 nuclear plants producing 91,000 tons of toxic nuclear waste per year (year after year, always building up, never decreasing, never biodegrading) mutating more as it is stored, and with NOWHERE TO GO, except, inevitably, the poison the people/land that couldn’t fight hard enough to keep it out of their backyard.

    “Saying nuclear is carbon-free is not true,” says Uwe Fritsche, a researcher at the Öko Institut in Darmstadt, Germany, who has conducted a life-cycle analysis of the plants. “It’s less carbon-intensive than fossil fuel. Nuclear power has more than just a little greenhouse gas attached to it, when mining uranium ore, refining and enriching fuel, building the plant, and operating it are included. A big 1,250 megawatt plant produces the equivalent of 250,000 tons of carbon dioxide a year during its life, Dr. Fritsche says.”

    One has to also point to the MINING that needs to be done for nuclear power, which is always bad for the planet.

  37. B99 said on September 16th, 2009 at 2:26pm #

    No doubt nuclear plants are bad. I’ve always been against them. But thirty some-odd years after all developed societies should have focused on alternative (and non-nuclear) solutions to the fuel crisis it is now apparently likely that the solutions will not come from the various wind, water, solar sources. Certainly, research should be quintupled by the gov’t. But I don’t see it happening under Obama or his successor. So progress will fall increasingly behind need. I think nuke plants will be back and perhaps even China will lead the way. Otherwise we die of coal-plant carbon emissions.

  38. lichen said on September 16th, 2009 at 2:40pm #

    Well, some European countries have come pretty far in developing and utilizing solar, wind, geothermal, and tidal power on a large scale and to good effect; they are less expensive, quicker, and easier than nuclear, with a smaller carbon footprint; they are also do-it-yourself, decentralized power arrangements. I’m sure if it weren’t for the nuclear industry spending millions of dollars to advertise itself, it wouldn’t be advertised so much. Frankly, in a really hostile environment and crisis situations, societal breakdown, there will not be enough stability to run such albotrosses. Personally, I’d go with a less radioactive, less toxic world that doesn’t have any electricity.

  39. Don Hawkins said on September 16th, 2009 at 3:45pm #

    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler. Slow growth as much as possible. It’s going to happen anyway.

  40. Don Hawkins said on September 16th, 2009 at 3:55pm #

    China looks like full speed ahead at least for awhile.

  41. B99 said on September 16th, 2009 at 4:34pm #

    The nuclear power industry was moribund for decades following 3-Mile Island and Chernobyl. The reason that alternative energies has progressed only a minute fraction of where it should be is that Reagan and the Republicans squashed it in favor of big business – coal, oil, autos. Carter was the last president on the right track – but he was dumped for a grade B actor, the first in a series of personalities masquerading as statesmen.

  42. Don Hawkins said on September 16th, 2009 at 6:30pm #

    Severe drought continues to affect over a million people in southern China. According to China’s state-run television, more than 70 cities and counties in the province of Guangxi are experiencing water shortages.

    In Guangdong Province, the drought has continued for three months, causing a drinking water shortage for about 66,800 residents in the region, according to communist China’s Xinhua news agency.

    Meanwhile, in Guizhou Province, authorities estimate that over two million people and livestock have been affected by drought. In some villages, fire trucks have been called in to provide water for residents up to eight times a day, but it’s still not enough. China TV

    Climate change activists reacted sharply yesterday to indications from Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) that cap-and-trade legislation may have to wait until 2010, warning that the delay could derail international negotiations in Copenhagen.

    Annie Petsonk, international counsel for Environmental Defense Fund, said she fears the U.N. talks slated for December will flounder without a clear plan from President Obama to move climate legislation through Congress.
    “The appearance to the international community would be that the U.S. Congress is just adrift,” she said. NYT

    And so it goes, adrift in a sea of foolishness.

  43. DissentFromDayOne said on September 28th, 2009 at 6:55pm #

    Hey look, I came across an old hippy website still fighting for “justice.”

    You freakin’ CIA-sponsored losers were p3nwd and used for decades thinking you were fighting for your precious “justice.”

    You better get your candy-asses back onto the streets because the 0bama FASCISTS are here people (see G20) …. the useful idiot Fabians are STILL being used to push the left vs. right bullshit while the international banksters and their Foundations enslave the world.

    Oh wait….let’s all jump on Al Gore’s 100-yacht or go to the latest Michael Mo-ron movie and prove how “intellectual” we are …. not.

    When I hear “justice” I know I’m dealing with a totalitarian or some tenured professor who has never done a THING in his/her pathetic life, trying to steal my liberty.

    It’s not about “justice” you freakin’ collectivists. It’s about liberty. Now go