Prosecuting George W. Bush for Murder

A brutal dictator, — with ties to terrorism — will not be permitted to dominate a vital region and threaten the United States.

— George W. Bush, plotting the crime, plans the misleading 2003 State of the Union speech then delivers the lies to citizens and the Congress

In his new book, The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder, Vincent Bugliosi makes a devastating, well documented case that President George W. Bush is guilty of murder as a result of the lies he told to justify the invasion of Iraq.

As a Los Angeles prosecutor, Bugliosi represented the state in 105 major cases and won 104, including each of his 21 murder cases. Since his first book, Helter Skelter, he’s been one of the top true crime writers with three number one bestsellers and numerous awards.

In his best known case, Bugliosi’s prosecution led to Charles Manson conviction for murder even though Manson was never at two of the crime scenes when the victims were murdered. While he has not been on hand for any combat, should Bush appear before a judge and jury charged with the murder of U.S. soldiers, Bugliosi is confident that he can provide the arguments and evidence required for a first degree murder conviction.

Bugliosi’s argument is simple. Bush wanted a war with Iraq. He had to show that a preemptive invasion of Iraq was justified. To do this Iraq had to be an imminent threat to the United States. There were two major problems. Bush couldn’t prove any connection between Saddam Hussein and 9/11. More importantly, his own intelligence estimate found that the only scenario in which Saddam posed an imminent threat to the United States was through a preemptive attack on Iraq that threatened Saddam’s survival, i.e., the Bush proposal.

That was a minor obstacle. Bush cheated. He simply reversed the findings of the National Intelligence Estimate (NEI) of 2002, classified the original document, and provided Congress with a doctored version to support his claims. By doing this, Bush pushed through an illegal invasion which he had to have known would cost U.S. lives. That, Bugliosi argues, is an act of murder committed against each and every U.S. soldier killed in the war.

I interviewed Vincent Bugliosi on Sunday, August 3, 2008 for 90 minutes. He was gracious and generous with his time. Totally focused on this project, he is working seven days a week to spread the word and find at least one prosecutor to take the case for the prosecution of George W. Bush.


“Apparently its okay for George Bush to take this nation to war on a lie, to be responsible, criminally responsible for well over 100,000 deaths, but it’s not okay to prosecute him. Not only isn’t it okay to prosecute him, it isn’t even okay to talk about prosecuting him. This is unbelievable what’s going on in this country. How can we have a country where they permit a president to do what he did and they do absolutely nothing to him except to try to protect him?” Vincent Bugliosi

Michael Collins: You recently published The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder. This is a deadly serious charge from a distinguished prosecutor. What’s the core of your case, the essence of it?

Vincent Bugliosi: The essence of the case against George Bush is that he deliberately took this nation to war in Iraq on a lie, under false pretenses, and therefore, under the law, he is guilty of murder for the deaths of over 4,000 young American soldiers who have died so far in Iraq fighting his war — not your war or my war or America’s war, but George Bush’s war.

I can tell you that if the case went to trial, the central, overriding issue at Bush’s trial, would be whether or not he took this nation to war in self?defense as he claimed he did: that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and therefore he was an imminent threat to the security of this country, so we had to strike first in self?defense.

If Bush could prove this — he doesn’t have the burden of proving it, by the way, but he certainly would assume that burden — that would be his defense. The prosecution has the burden of showing that he did not act in self?defense. But if the evidence showed that he did act in self defense, that would be a legal justification for all of the deaths during the war in Iraq.

If the prosecutor, on the other hand, could prove that he did not act in self?defense and he took the nation to war under false pretenses, then all of the deaths of American soldiers in Iraq would become unlawful killings. All of those killings would become unlawful killings and therefore murder.

I spent a great amount of time at the L.A. County Law Library and the Ninth Circuit Library here in L.A. working on the issue of jurisdiction, because I realize that even if someone is guilty of murder, if you don’t have jurisdiction to prosecute them, you don’t have a case, really. I was unable to establish jurisdiction for the over 100,000 innocent Iraqi men, women, children and babies who have died so far in Bush’s war. He is guilty of those murders, but I could not establish jurisdiction against him for those murders. But I definitely established jurisdiction on a federal, state and local level to prosecute Bush for the murders of the 4,000 young American soldiers that have died so far in Iraq.

MC: You outlined some very specific events that happened in October 2002 and discrete pieces of evidence, one concerning the weapons of mass destruction. Can you just describe those and explain why they’re so central?

VB: As I testified before Congress, I have documentary evidence that when George Bush told the nation on the evening of October 7, 2002, that Hussein was an imminent threat to the security of this country, he was telling millions of unsuspecting Americans the exact opposite of what his own CIA had told him just six days earlier in a classified report on October 1 — that Hussein was not an imminent threat. That classified report was the National Intelligence Estimate of 2002. But it even gets worse than this. On October 4, three days after the October 1 classified report, the Bush administration put out an unclassified summary version of the classified report so they could give it to Congress and the American people. This unclassified version came to be known as the White Paper, and in this White Paper the conclusion of U.S. intelligence that Hussein was not an imminent threat to the security of this country was completely deleted.

Every single one of these all-important words was deleted from the White Paper, so Congress and the American people never saw any of this, and I don’t know how things can get too much worse than what I’ve just told you.

It was because of what I just told you that I got a call on the morning of June 16 here in Los Angeles at my home from a very conservative Republican Southern congressman who voted for the war. He was one of the most outspoken supporters of the war. He told me this. “Bugliosi,” he said, “I heard your book on tape, and I’m now convinced that George Bush deceived Congress,” or “misled Congress,” I think was his word, “misled Congress into war.” And he said, “I’ve already bought several copies of your book, and I’ve passed them out to colleagues, and I told them, ‘Read the book. We’ve been lied to.'”

What was he was talking about? He saw that the White Paper did not contain the most important conclusion of all in the classified document, that Hussein was not an imminent threat to the security of this country. He also learned that the classified document stated many of its conclusions, not the one I just told you, but many of the conclusions in the area of weapons of mass destruction as opinions, using words like “we assess that” or “we judge that Hussein had,” let’s say, biological weapons. The White Paper that this congressman was given, those words of qualification were completely deleted and it read, “Hussein has biological weapons.” He also learned that there were several important dissents from U.S. intelligence agencies with respect to nuclear weapons in the classified report. But in the White Paper that he was given, all of those dissents were deleted.

This is just — you know, I hate to use the word terrible over again, but it’s just absolutely terrible, and the question is how evil, how criminal, how perverse, how sick can George Bush and his people be? And yet they got away with all of this. As I’m talking to you right now, there are well over 100,000 people — some estimates go in excess of a million — well over 100,000 precious human beings who are in their cold graves right now because of it. But so far, George Bush has gotten away with murder and we, the American people, cannot let him do this. He’s gotten away with murder, and no one is doing anything.

MC: What are the members of the mainstream media and the upper tiers of power doing to bring Bush to justice?

What they are doing — they are doing something. They’re trying to protect him. They’re actively trying to protect this guy. Why would they want to protect this monstrous individual who took this nation to war on a lie with the incalculable horror and suffering and sea of blood and screams and mutilations and beheadings he has caused? Why would they want to protect him? They had no hesitancy in going after Clinton for doing absolutely nothing. Clinton has consensual sexual activity outside of marriage, lies under oath to cover it up.

No self?respecting prosecutor would ever dream of going after Clinton for this. So he did absolutely nothing, and yet, as I’ve pointed out many times, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year, Clinton was savaged by the mainstream media, including the so?called liberal New York Times and Washington Post. He was impeached by this monstrous, grotesque, obscene Ken Starr. The federal government funded a seven?year, $70 million effort by Starr to destroy the Clinton presidency. They wanted to hang him in the town square at noontime. No one wanted to protect him. But they want to protect this morally defective, amoral, terrible, despicable human being, George Bush. I have nothing but contempt for George Bush, and yet the mainstream media is out there trying to protect him. I’m not saying there’s any conspiracy involved here by the mainstream media to keep me off all these shows. It’s just that each member of the mainstream national media feels the same way about it.

MC: Right.

VB: They do not want me talking on national television about prosecuting George Bush for murder. So apparently its okay for George Bush to take this nation to war on a lie, be responsible, criminally responsible for well over 100,000 deaths, its okay for him to do that, but it’s not okay to prosecute him. Not only isn’t it okay to prosecute him, it isn’t even okay to talk about prosecuting him. This is unbelievable what’s going on in this country. How can we have a country where they permit a president to do what he did and they do absolutely nothing to him except to try to protect him? I don’t understand that. Where am I missing something?

I was telling my wife a couple of days ago, I said, “You’ve heard about these cold case files,” and she said, “Of course.” And they even have a TV series, I guess, on it. But I’ve known about them for years down at the DA’s office. Very commonly you’ll have just one victim of a murder, just one victim, and you’ll have a detective assigned to the case pursuing the killer for 10, 15, 20, 25 years, and then after he retires, some other detective takes over. Some of these cases go on for 30, 35, 40 years. The Black Dahlia case in Los Angeles, I think, goes back in the ‘30s. They’re still investigating it 75 years later. And frequently we read in the newspaper that the killer is found back East. He’s living under an assumed name and he’s brought back to Los Angeles and he’s prosecuted. Just one victim and you have this detective tenaciously and endlessly pursuing this case.

So I said to her, “There may be as many as one million victims, not one victim, but one million victims in their cold graves right now decomposing as a result of George Bush’s monumental crime.” And I said to her — “What person in authority on the face of this globe is representing these one million people in their graves, fighting to bring about justice for them, pursuing the person, the guilty person who put them there?” And she said, “You.” And I said, “No, you didn’t hear what I said. I said what person in authority is going after the killer of these million people?” I said, “I don’t have the authority of an emaciated moth. I don’t have any authority.”

I’m searching for someone who does have authority to bring George Bush to justice. I want to find that one courageous prosecutor out there, whether he’s in Fargo, North Dakota, or Tampa, Florida, who will bring George Bush to justice.

But when you juxtapose the one victim, maybe she’s found lying in a pool of blood in her kitchen in L.A. 30 years ago, and you have this detective for 30 years trying to bring about justice for that murder, and then you have a million people dying over there, and there’s no one presently that I know of on the face of this globe who’s fighting to bring about justice for these people in their graves, and it’s mind?boggling to me. Am I missing something here?

MC: Does Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) support your efforts? (Conyers is Chairman of the House Committee on the Judiciary where Mr. Bugliosi gave testimony on July 25, 2008 in hearings on the Kucinich impeachment resolution).

VB: All I know is that he called me and he said he’s reading the book and he likes it very much. I got the definite sense that he was supportive of what I’m trying to do. And, as you know, when I testified before Congress, I think it came across in body language and many other ways that he was on my side.

MC: When he held up your book?

House Committee on the Judiciary Chairman holds up Vincent Bugliosi’s book prior to testimony by the former prosecutor. Bugliosi was barred from specifically naming the president by the rules of Congress. This is the only Judiciary or other congressional hearing during which a sitting president has been accused of murder. (Video)

VB: He held up the book, and when they wanted to shut me down once or twice, he prevented that. I can tell you (that) he did not specifically say to me, “I agree that he should — Bush should be prosecuted for murder, and I hope he is prosecuted for murder.” He didn’t use those words. But the definite implication was that he was very supportive of what I’m doing in the book and he liked the book, but he did not take that additional step.

Now, I’ll tell you who did take that additional step, the congressman, the congressman from — I don’t want to mention the state, but a congressman in the South. He said, “Mr. Bugliosi, come November I’m going to be out in the public with you, and I want to be at your side when George Bush, hopefully, is indicted for first degree murder.” Now, here’s something else when I’m talking about these million people out there.

MC: (On the absence of mainstream support to bring Bush to justice.)

Here’s another incredible statistic. I’m trying to bring about justice for those people in their graves. I have no authority to do that, but I’m a private citizen trying to do that. What other person who’s a member of the mainstream (is supporting this effort) — I’m not talking about progressive radio, because they’re just as much — well, they’re better Americans than the right wing, but they’re not mainstream. They’re supporting me. But what person, what other person in this entire country who’s in the mainstream — politicians, prosecutors, the national media, celebrities, many of whom hate George Bush and believe he took this nation to war on a lie — who has come forward from the mainstream to say, “I support Vince Bugliosi”? You know what the answer is? I think it’s zero.

Only one person who’s a member of the mainstream has come forward, but not publicly, and said, “I support you, and I want Bush to be prosecuted for first degree murder.” That’s the congressman from the South, but he hasn’t gone public.

MC: Right.

VB: But when we remove him, is there one other person –

MC: You have not received one other endorsement?

VB: I can’t think of it. I’ve got — progressive radio.

MC: Well, sure.

VB: But what I’m thinking of is, you know, a prominent celebrity or a prosecutor. Or someone at the network or cable or someone at a daily newspaper. I’m talking about a main newspaper, not a small paper or a review of the book. No one that I know of. And that came to my mind just last night, kind of an extension of the cold case thing, and I said to my wife, “Is there someone out there that I don’t know about that’s come forward?” There’s got to be someone out there in this country that’s got the courage to say, “Bugliosi is right, and I endorse what he’s doing.” And if there is that person, I really don’t know who that person is. There’s only one person who’s a member of the mainstream who has come forward to support me, and that hasn’t been publicly. I’m talking about the congressman. He’s making no secret of it on Capitol Hill. He carries the book around with him. He’s been passing the book out. He’s contacted several people in the media, high up in the media, and asked them to interview me. I’ve spoken to one of them already, very high up, establishment media. He’s working behind the scenes big?time, but I think he’s coming up for reelection. But he is the only person that comes to my mind in this entire country.

MC: That’s stunning.

VB: And the majority of the American people, a poll showed, believe that Bush intentionally misled this country into war. Where is the outrage? Doesn’t anyone have the courage to stand up and say, “I support Vince Bugliosi”? So far it’s zero, and that just came to my mind last night.

People are always saying how courageous I am, and I’m not courageous. When I tell people, “No, it’s all out of anger,” they say, “Well, yeah, a lot of people are angry, but they don’t have the courage to do anything about it.” And I started to think about that, and as applied to me I think this: I have had fears, in taking on the U.S. Supreme Court, taking on the President of the United States, but my anger overcomes that fear. Do you follow?

Continued in Part 2

Michael Collins writes for Scoop Independent News and a variety of other web publications on election fraud and other corruptions of the new millennium. He is one of few to report on the ongoing struggles of Susan Lindauer, an activist accused of being a foreign agent, who was the subject of a government request for forced psychiatric medication. This article may be reproduced in whole or in part with attribution of authorship, a link to this article, and acknowledgment of images. Read other articles by Michael, or visit Michael's website.

68 comments on this article so far ...

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  1. Phil said on August 8th, 2008 at 8:24am #

    Justice indeed. But how much good does it ultimately do to go after one brainless puppet, while equal (or perhaps more) guilt also lies among every member of the administration, almost every member of Congress and of course every member of AIPAC?

  2. bozhidar balkas said on August 8th, 2008 at 9:16am #

    none of uncle sam`s chosen children will ever get punished. truman wasn`t.
    a prez is protected for life. actually, the only reason US is destroying, killing, maiming more than ever is `cuz US is stronger econo-militarilly than ever before. it cannot be proven that clinton or bush is meaner or more stupid than all the other prezs
    the end goal hasn`t changed. means of obtaining it also is the same.
    what has changed is armaments.thank you

  3. ADAM ROACH said on August 8th, 2008 at 7:28pm #

    How can we possibly expect any responsibe “mainstream media” support of such a vital issue when their idea of ‘news” is Britney Spears and her ilk?? Mr. Bugliosi is so on-target with every statement made in this interview.

    I have been against this war from the start and have been very outspoken in my beliefs. This war IS illegal. I’ve said all along that Bush is a mass murderer. I only see things getting much worse in this country…especially if McCain becomes president.

    If the media chooses to protect Bush and ignore the true facts,so clearly outlined by a prominent figure like Vince Bugliosi,what can we,”the little guy” American public do to be heard and taken seriously? I find this most disturbing of all.

  4. Bob said on August 8th, 2008 at 8:11pm #

    I’ve heard two interviews of Mr. Bugliosi, one focused on the book;
    “Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy”
    the other focused on his latest book;
    “The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder”.

    In the first interview he calmly picks apart all of the conspiracies surrounding the Kennedy assassination. Each time telling the facts, and showing the theory to less than credible, in fact impossible.

    The second interview I heard with Mr. Bugliousi was somewhat different. He openly stated his hatred of President Bush, and didn’t offer one piece of evidence. The interviewer(whom claims to have known Bugliousi for many years) , made a point to observe he believed Mr. Bugliousi had gone over the edge. I concur, Mr. Bugliousi is filled with hatred to the point, of it impairing his judgment.

    I know many will disagree, and that’s fine. I have real thick skin, so take your best shot. But remember conspiracies are for week minded men.

    PS. So are simplistic slogans such as; Bush lied people died! So try reason, instead of insult.

    PSS. Hugh if your out there. Hows the family?

  5. gerry said on August 8th, 2008 at 9:11pm #

    Mr. Bugliosi has alot of courage. There are many, many people that believe Bush should be prosecuted. Thankfully we have Mr. Bugliosi fighting for what is right. We should all fight for descency and justice.

  6. LJ said on August 8th, 2008 at 9:17pm #

    Are people so stupid that the forget Saddam masterminded the invasion of Kuwait, then blew up their oil fields for good measure? That he was paying bonus money to the fanatics who were suicide bombing civilians in Israel? That his sons raped and murdered numerous numbers of their own citizens at will? Do they forget the gas murder of tens of thousands of Kurds within his own borders, including children? Am I missing something? This dictator needed to keep power for what reason, so more people could be murdered? Yes, western intelligence was not as accurate as hoped, in part because the liberals here under Clinton had made sure that in their paranoia our intelligence agencies were not stepping on anyones toes, “profiling”, or sharing information to get a complete picture. That does not make Saddam a choir boy. Bush did what was needed to protect his own citizens, acting on the best information he had and that ALL WESTERN POWERS AND THE UN BELIEVED AS WELL. Thats what a President with balls and brains is supposed to do. I guess in addition to seeing Bush as a murderer, liberals also see Iran right now as a good neighbor interested in nuclear energy simply as a way to power air conditioners. Yeah, right. Let’s wait until we see the Iranians bomb someone and THEN decide to act…as long as we don’t hurt or offend anyone. Liberal…a synonym for idiot.

  7. Maureen Lawrence said on August 8th, 2008 at 9:28pm #

    Finally, someone has the courage to openly accuse Bush of misleading the world and sending Soldiers from around the world to their deaths.
    He is also responsible for the deaths of innocent Iraqi people. He should be charged for War Crimes the same as the people who were affiliated with the Holocaust and the Genocide going on in Africa.

  8. Mike said on August 8th, 2008 at 9:39pm #

    I agree, in part, with all comments so far. Bush is indeed a mass murderer. However, Congress didn’t vote for war; they voted to abdicate their Constitutional responsibility and illegally transfer the decision for war to the administrative branch. Therefore, under simple agency law, Congress (almost every member) must be held responsible for any acts done by their direct agent — in this case, George Bush. Does VB advocate prosecuting Congress also? Of course not.

    I agree with Bob that VB’s objectivity is skewed, but that doesn’t mean his conclusions are wrong. His problem now is a marketing problem and he should make a serious study of the Clinton trial. I believe he will find that convincing Congressmen is not the key; the moneymen who control Congress must be convinced to turn against Bush. Then – and only then – will some prosecutor be instructed to go after him.

  9. Daniel Davis said on August 8th, 2008 at 10:24pm #

    I think Bugliosi is absolutely right, but hurts his case by admitting he hates bush, because WEAK minded people will will use that as an excuse to not believe him. Don’t underestimate his brilliance as a prosecutor , though.

    Bob, what would constitute evidence for you, w. shooting little girls on the street (other than by proxy, as he is doing, like the coward he is and was during Viet Nam era)? We know over 4,000 of our soldiers have died, and many more maimed physicaly, mentally and spiritually, as have untold hundreds of thousands of Iraqi souls. Hello, premeditating a killing of one person is murder. The thousands of well documented lies by this w cabal, proves premeditation and the murders are proven as well (does anyone doubt that more than 1 soldier or Iraqi have been killed.

    I believe the crimes by the bush cabal rise way beyond breaking our federal and state laws and treason against our great Constitution (which they have committed, to war crimes and crimes against humanity, for which, by established international law and precedent, charges can be brought by any legitimate government in the world. No doubt this will happen (as international legal authorities are already talking about it), if some USA jurisdiction doesn’t find a modicum of courage to proceed against such horrific criminals as bush, cheney, et al.

    Believing conspiracies, such as the government promoted conspiracy tale about 9/11, are for the weak minded and fearful, because either they refuse to look at the vast array of evidence that the truth has once again not yet been told, or refuse to believe their government would lie to them. As a combat vet of Viet Nam, I was one of hundreds of thousands of victim of the LBJ lies. At least he was haunted by them, not morally devoid like w, et al. By the way, a consiracy is when two or more people get together to plan an event, usually a dastardly or evil deed. They conspire.

    “Bush lied people died!” – is not an insult, it is truth telling, whatta concept.


  10. Sandra said on August 8th, 2008 at 11:00pm #

    Mr Bugliosi,
    If in fact the documents are available that prove President Bush deliberately excluded part of the original document in order to validate this war, then I don’t understand either why someone hasn’t stepped up to the plate and filed charges against Bush and the entire administration, especially if you have stated the evidence to Congress already. I am with you 200% if you have the evidence! I am your average American Citizen, with little or no power to start such Legal proceedings. But, I am guessing that others like myself would certainly be behind the process of making Bush accountable for his actions. The President is a direct reflection on each of us when people from other countries view us as a whole. I hope your book stirs the legal minds and hearts out there to take action!!! Thank you for your efforts to protect all those who feel powerless over the System. Bless you! And BTW, although anger can be detrimental, it also can be used as a catalyst to help make changes for the good of all!

  11. Celiene O'Hara said on August 8th, 2008 at 11:11pm #

    I support Vince Bugliosi. What he has said here – I have been saying for years – WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE? Is it the fear of the wrath of the rest of the world if the facts actually came to light? What about the rage of Muslims areound the world – would they claim religious war for real? If McCain gets in – nothing will be done. Rove, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumdfeld, Ashcroft et al should all stand on the same defendants bench. Go dhelp us. Who could have imagined America would be killed from the inside by her own leaders? I don’t care about the wrath of the world rightnow – I want my country back. mI want her wounds treated and salved – and to start that – BUSH MUST STAND BEFORE THE WORLD AND HIS CRIMES BE ACCOUNTED FOR. There will be no America as we knew her until this happens.

  12. Dr. Janna S Davids said on August 8th, 2008 at 11:41pm #

    Yes, gradually, year-by-year, this country were converted into the agressive monopoly country in which the money dictate the politician situation. As a result, we loose the young lives, the world hates us, our economy became weak, we have the Housing Market collapsed, the Stock Market as “BEAR”, the Health Care is not caring but takes the last money from the terminally-ill, and old-people who needs the medical advise. According the Medical Statistics from CDC, every 10 mln persons are becoming HIV carriers with AIDS. We are cruel, and do not care about the kids in Iraq, Afganistan, and it is against of the Ammendment-a Discrimination. It needs to investigate on the government level aout September 11. It was very strange how the buildings were collapsed in New York. The human being life became nothing, the soldiers are against the war in Iraq. The Statistics tells that the soldiers are deserting trying to cross the border in Canada. It is not the Bush guilt about his lie, he has no any morality which stopped him. It is not permissible to the leader of the most powerful country in the world. GOD BLESS AMERICA from the evil @ this country.

  13. Michael Collins said on August 9th, 2008 at 12:45am #

    What good does it do to hold the leader of a nation accountable for a criminal act of war? A great deal, although you’re right, it doesn’t bring back the dead, heal the injured or restore the valuable wasted time. However, it would certainly curtail a lot of belligerent behavior by presidents if they knew that citizens wold hold them accountable. It’s never been done here. I’m not aware when any nation’s citizens prusied legal action against the chief executive directly. Congress is utterly useless in this regard, so why don’t we take up the effort? Can you imagine the reaction to a successful prosecution? It would change a great deal moving forward.

    As for the Bugliosi interviews, two points. He is angry as we all should be, that tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers have been killed and injured in this war – citizens who joined with the best motives and were betrayed by the lies of Bush and company. He’s very open about that. But his case is incredibly strong. Check out the book. It’s elegantly and forcefully argued, extremely well documented, with footnotes and endnotes galore. Quite a triumph. Bush altered the National Intelligence Estimate by removing a judgment that Iraq would -not- attack us -unless- we attacked them. In addition to removing that critical evidence, he replaced the report with a White Paper indicating just the opposite. Bush deliberately altered critical evidence to achieve a goal not supported by the evidence. It’s a crime and the consequences are the responsibility of the criminals – murder.

  14. jfasterpig said on August 9th, 2008 at 1:21am #

    Isn’t it a dirty secret that if there’s a war going on, congress won’t impeach the president, no matter what he’s done? That’s why every republican has started a war when in office.

  15. Bre said on August 9th, 2008 at 2:45am #

    I think this man is just trying to make a name for himself, and come on, we all know that garbage like this sells and that is his agenda. I’m not a fan of George Bush, President of the United States, but shall we all agree, the President of the United States does not and will never make the total decissions, he is told what to do, and yes I do believe that PPW can be altered, it’s altered everyday in all our lives, so why blame Bush, maybe he didn’t know it was altered did this guy ever think of that. Don’t call Bush a murderer unless you call everyone on capital hill murderers and prosecute them all.

  16. Patrick said on August 9th, 2008 at 3:47am #

    I am AFRAID of this goverment……………..and you should be too………this is the start of Neo-Americanism………..the Main stream media has failed U.S. (us)……..they will soon be gone , read newspapers your the only one left who does…………they will label you, anti-american,crazy,dig up your backround 4 anything………BIG BROTHER IS HERE !!!………ask your-self am I on Camera for most of my day ? do you have a Pasword ? the last 4 digits of S.S.# please………cell phone tracking……..GPS ?………..Echolon Phone Tap ? Be Afraid its unamerican not to be………..Thanks G.W.B……….What did we expect ? his Daddy was C.I.A. all the way……..gotta go the doorbells ringing its 1984 and the Radios playing “There Coming to Take YOU Away ! HaHa HoHo……………Heil Georgeeeeeeeeeee (in backround….voices……you have the right to beeeeeeeeeeeee ????????? NO More

  17. sfcmac said on August 9th, 2008 at 5:40am #

    I have published this on various places around the internet, and it bears repeating:

    We all know how difficult it is for you socialist “activists” with your post-election trauma and the weekly trips to your therapist, but the rest of America is getting sick and tired of your pissing, moaning, and imbecilic regurgitations ie: “Bush Lied”. If you removed your head from your ass and stopped fawning over bin Laden and repulsive simps like Michael Moore, you might get that clue you so desperately need.

    Hell, if all we wanted was “oil” we could have bombed the Middle East back to the Stone Age, which would only set them back about 2 weeks, and simply TAKEN every single oil well in the region. Meanwhile, we’re paying about 3 bucks a pop at the pump.

    You’ve conveniently forgotten about the 3000 Americans who were slaughtered on September 11th 2001. That was a Pearl Harbor of the 21st Century, and all you can do is spew nonsense.

    Included in the war on terror equation is Afghanistan, the success of which is virtually ignored by the leftist media. We kicked the crap out of the Taliban. That success is reflected in the fact that bin Laden and whatever little band of thugs he still has, are scurrying like cockroaches back and forth across the mountainous region between Pakistan and Afghanistan hiding in caves to avoid detection.

    As for Iraq: Saddam Hussein filled hundreds of mass graves with men, women and children, and slaughtered 5000 Kurds with “non-existent” chemical weapons. He thumbed his nose at the pusillanimous UN for 12 years, while he continued to research, develop, and hide the evidence of his WMD program. In addition, Iraqi intelligence met with al Qadea operatives and he provided them with training camps in Northern Iraq.

    “About the oil”, my ass.

    Let me give you first hand experience as to how the war is going: We are kicked the shit out of the terrorists to the extent that they are getting desperate, and it shows. The Iraqis woke up and realized that the future of their country depends on how much they assist in their own reconstruction and protection. We are getting an increasing number of people who walk up to American troops and literally take them to weapons caches and terrorist hiding places. If you’ve been paying attention, you’ll note the numerous press reports of captures/kills of high ranking Bin Laden Lieutenants.

    The Afghan and Iraqi people are constructing fledgling democracies, can vote, run for office, and speak freely for the first time in their existence. Nothing threatens Islamofascists more than a democracy.

    We’re fighting Islamofascist thugs who would gladly subject the entire planet (including you) to their oppressive theocracy. Before you hit the sack tonight you should get down on your knees and give thanks to whatever God you pray that we are out front making sure that doesn’t happen.

    You can thank Bubba Clinton for giving al Qaida the green light. His total indifference to the terrorist attacks on his watch; the first attack on the World Trade center, Khobar Towers, and the embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania went without retribution. He and algore (one word) were too busy using the Oval Office as their personal conduit for unethical, immoral and illegal activities. His Chinese/Indonesian friends Charlie Trie, John Huang, and James Riady bought the 1996 “election” in exchange for information on, among other items, classified satellite technology. He illegally obtained FBI files on political adversaries, and fired the Travel Office and threatened them with surveillance if they talked.

    Oh, wait, he did have a response–he bombed Kosovo and an aspirin factory in Iraq. Abetted by lap-dog Janet Reno’s obstruction of justice, Clinton flushed the integrity of the Office as well as national security down the toilet, and not a peep out of you liberal shitbags.

    Dedicated, brave Soldiers of the United States Army are fighting and sacrificing their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan so that ingrates like you won’t have to worry about another 3000 deaths on this soil.

    You lefties are comprised of pseudo-anarchists, nihilists, and spineless sycophants who would never let the facts get in the way of a good Bush bashing. The adults, thank God, are still in charge of the country. You ought to follow the lead, remove the nose rings and grow up.

    Sergeant First Class Cheryl McElroy


  18. dee said on August 9th, 2008 at 6:43am #

    Let’s hope if this comes to fruition they chose to prosecute in Texas where the capital punishment laws and executions, George so bragged on, are applied to him. Will the image of Bush’s execution be as prevalent as that of Hussein as he hung from the gallows? The comment that conspiracies are for weak minded men is obviously a statement that the guilty embrace. Is it considered a conspiracy when an innocent until proven guilty citizen is accussed of a crime? NO! So why when acussations of crimes against Bush, because of evidence of lies and purgeries are factual, is it considered a conspiracy? I’ll tell you why. To initiate the conclusion that these allegations are that of the mentally incompetent and should not be taken seriously. Does anyone else not find it interesting that behind all the conspiracies, eg. JFK assassination, 9-11, there are ALWAYS secrecy issues. Documents ordered closed for years after inadequate investigation. Not to mention that the commisions appointed to investigate the events are composed of individuals that have obvious conflicts of interest and could never be unbias. It is comparable to allowing the Mother of an accused kileer to ejudicate their trial. Yet the American public simply looks the other way when it comes to thee illuminati, elite, elected officals and individuals. How is it that a constitution constructed to be for the people, by the people and of the people in changed without the consent of the people. When will we awaken? When will we say enough? When will Americans take back their country and futures? what will it take to convince us that we have been lied to and manipulated by a government that was established to protect us and our once great country? Perhaps when those of us that are left are in underground concentration camps, after most of the population has been extinguished the survivorers will look back and remember that the lies of this administration was the heartbeat of the end of our existence. Proving once again that we only react when it is to late to save ourselves. There will come a day when peopl will wish they thought for themselves instead of allowing to be lead by those that utter such statements as conspiracies are for the weak minded. Actually, that comment translates to, dissidence is the very definition of democracy. Somehow dissidence is now defined as mental incapacity or weak mindedness. God help us find the courage to stop accepting the falsehoods fed to us as truth. If we do not unite we will perish.

  19. bozhidar balkas said on August 9th, 2008 at 7:02am #

    to us peace activists saddam was a criminal even before iraq’s invasion of iran.
    but, unfortunately, he wasn’t to US until iraq’s invasion of kuwait.
    from your piece i conclude that you do not honor the desirable principle that an occupied people is morally and legally obligated to resist an occupation.
    wasn’t war of independence about american right to govern self?
    now to enumerate crimes by zionists wld take too long. these crimes are well known.
    only some zionists negate all of them. you’ve done it, too.
    in short, pals are guilty of just one crime; that of killing civilians.
    so, israel possesses proportionally 99% of all crimes done by both sides.
    thank you.

  20. RIChris said on August 9th, 2008 at 7:14am #

    Congress had all the information that President Bush had. And before that, President Clinton and his Congress had the same information. Bugliosi is insulting the intelligence of all Americans by insinuating the ills of the world are the blame of one man. What he should be doing is thanking President Bush for keeping his *** safe enough to write the type of treasonous garbage that can only be published in AMERICA.

  21. george said on August 9th, 2008 at 7:21am #

    This man and Michael Moore are 2 of the best reasons I can imagine to require citizens to pass an IQ test prior to being allowed to exercise their right to Freedom of Speech in this country. He is guilty of criminal stupidity in the first degree, punishable by forced confinement with Michael Moore and forced to perpetually watch Fahrenheit 911 until death.

  22. RIChris said on August 9th, 2008 at 7:56am #

    jfasterpig said on August 9th, 2008 at 1:21 am
    Isn’t it a dirty secret that if there’s a war going on, congress won’t impeach the president, no matter what he’s done? That’s why every republican has started a war when in office.
    James Polk – Mexican War
    Woodrow Wilson – WWI
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt – WWII
    Harry Truman – Korean War
    John F. Kennedy – Vietnam War

  23. al said on August 9th, 2008 at 9:22am #

    Then let’s charge Lyndon Johnson with murder for the Gulf of Tonkin, let’s charge FDR with murder for letting Pearl Harbor happen, let’s charge Bill Clinton with murder for taking us into an undeclared was in Bosnia. Let’s charge Abraham Lincoln with murder for his unconstitutional war against the confederate states.This Bugliosi is bugs all right. I was totally against this war, but this is ridiculous. All these jerks climbing out of the woodwork to make a buck off of gullible, hate mongering partisans, and nary a word of truth being spoken to the American people.

  24. Robert Hall said on August 9th, 2008 at 9:39am #

    What about Cheney and his Halliburton stock options? The stock has gone up at least an order of magnitude since the invasion of Iraq. He says that he is going to give all of the proceeds to charity. What’s he waiting for? I know, once he leaves office he won’t do any such thing and nobody will care. He is the real criminal that should be prosecuted along with fat, ugly scumbag Carl Rove.

  25. Roby said on August 9th, 2008 at 10:11am #

    George W. Bush should be prosecuted for the lies he has told and the expense of innocent lives througout the world. I believe he should not just be prosecuted in the US but also internationally as a War Criminal.

  26. Roby said on August 9th, 2008 at 10:12am #

    George W. Bush should be prosecuted for the lies he has told at the expense of innocent lives throughout the world. I believe he should not just be prosecuted in the US but also internationally as a War Criminal.

  27. Barbara S said on August 9th, 2008 at 10:14am #

    To the poster who said VB is “just trying to make a name …” VB HAS a name and a very well respected one as an Author and successful Prosecutor.

    Why bash him for being angry and for admitting his loathing for GW? MANY Americans feel the same way and with good reason. Do we forget how well respected this country was around the world, prior to this administration? Are we missing our financial and economical decline that is ever present and changing the way we live our lives daily, most of which has been imposed on us in this past 7 1/2 years and caused by a war of aggression that was against a sovereign nation that we now know indisputably, had NOTHING to do with the 3000 lives lost here on our own soil 9-11?

    Nearly every week there is more info that emerges indicating how many lies and deceptions were perpetrated on the American people, the American TAX PAYERS who are footing these huge bills, all perpetrated by GW and his cohorts. This group of political tyrants have tried to obliterate the middle class of American in an attempt to gain power, wealth and control and to begin a world controlling government of their own.

    When did Americans become so complacent? What happened to the type of American heroes and patriots that made the Boston Tea Party possible and the American Revolution?

    All through history there have come times when change is needed and the pendulum needs to be nudged to swing back toward balance and behind those much needed efforts were valiant Americans with the courage and audacity to stand up and speak out and to be a catalyst for that much needed change. How have we gotten to a place where we allow the MSM to control our beliefs, the material that we may or may not have access to reading or hearing, the positioning of political candidates and the media’s attempt to choose them for us? How have we been brainwashed into sitting back and allowing our very freedoms and democracy to become a shell of what they once were, all while permitting a small group of egomaniacs to steal away the very freedoms and principles that we have been assured through our Constitution for over 230 years?

    We began hearing of the atrocities and the lies that led us into an illegal war several years ago and because these rogue leaders use catch phrases, invented by Karl Rove, to intimidate us into shame for speaking out against this war … things like, “if you don’t support the war, you are un-American and don’t support our troops,” we still sit here, helpless and having done nothing while they continue to rape our nation, our people and our Constitution! Never in my life have I heard such hogwash that has been imposed, through the media, to control a nation of over 300 million people … and they have succeeded in doing it! We ALLOWED them to succeed at hijacking our nation, our laws and our Constitution, all for their personal gain, profiteering, power and control!

    The US is supposed to be a nation of the people, by the people and for the people, but we have become a repressed, oppressed nation of victims, who feel as though we have little control to correct these issues and to reign in the abuses of power we have allowed our politicians to perpetrate on the very people they are elected to serve and the very Constitution that they are sworn to protect! Our branches of government hold several hundred people. WE are a nation of over 300 million! Who do you really believe has the power to run this country and to return it to the respectful, wonderful land that it once was?

    When we stop permitting the MSM and the top 1% of the “have mores” of this nation to call all of the shots and tell us what to believe, how to act, what we should and should not dispute, who to elect to office and when we stop permitting them to also charge us for their self serving policies and attempted grab for world dominance, power, wealth and control, then and only then can we return to the nation that we once were … strong, admired, economically secure and run by the core principles of Democracy and personal freedoms that we are now being tricked into believing that we are “teaching” other, less fortunate and weaker nations. We do not have our own house in order, if you will. How can we possibly impose our dysfunctional ways on sovereign nations that are older than our own?

    Wake up America!! The answers lie within us, not individually, but collectively and as a people and when we stand as one, united as we were intended and we speak out for the right, the just, the laws and Constitution that made us a strong and admired nation for over 230 years, only then we will regain all that has been lost or stolen by these rogue, wealthy tyrants that have stolen away the very legacy and heritage that we once were promised by our forefathers …the very lives that we once knew as good and advantaged and the very promise of the same to our future generations! This handful of elected officials have effectively undone all of this in just under 8 years. Imagine what a nation of 300 million, united citizes could do in a rather short time?

    I applaud Mr. Bugliosi for standing up and having the gumption to speak out and say the many things that hundreds and thousands of us think every day and to reach out and try to help others to have a voice for our feelings. I also admire Mr. Collins for the interview and for bringing attention to it so that many can finally see in print, what we have felt and known for years now! This land is YOUR land, this land is MY land … it is NOT that of GW and his wealthy cronies! It is time we stand in force and claim it back!

  28. Allen said on August 9th, 2008 at 10:42am #

    It’s very interesting reading about the various (borderline ridiculous) justifications that Bush supporters seem to come up with to defend his decision to invade Iraq. I wholeheartedly commend V. Bugliosi and respect him for his contempt of the Bush Administration…Mine was one of the few voices that adamantly spoke out against the invasion of Iraq, which has proven very unfortunate for myself. Mine was also one of the even fewer voices who accurately predicted the scenario that would come to exist once U.S. forces set foot in Iraq…Tens of thousands of American casualties (including soldiers that are affected for life)…The senseless deaths of Iraqi civilians, which can also be listed in the tens of thousands and the displacement of many. Something in my opinion people don’t stop to consider enough. Iraq was a relatively weak country compared to U.S. resources and Bush seized upon that weakness by placing fear in the minds of Americans that our safety and well-being was in serious and imminent danger. People like Vincent who understand the intricate details that went into planning this facade know that Bush is guilty of lying. Alan Greenspan told Tim Russert that the war in Iraq was not about weapons of mass destruction as many have been led to believe, but more about oil. There are I’m sure millions of people who still support this phony/morally wrong campaign being waged in the middle east and there are those of you who have been directly affected by this man’s decision to place your love ones in harms way to accomplish the objectives of others and still find it difficult to embrace the truth of the matter. Please pick up a copy of “Bush’s Law” The Remaking Of American Justice by Jeff Lichtblau. Very insightful info. into the mindset of numerous powerful and politically influential people that make up our government. Read for yourself the actions and recordings of not only Bush, but also of those who provide him with this cloak of invincibility that he foolishly thinks he possess. Bush and others think that after their services are no longer required he will venture back to his vast spread of wealth and “kick his feet up” and live the good life. My question is how can he and others get away with everything it is that they have done, is there no one out there to challenge him and Cheney for what they’ve done? Again I take my hat off to V. Bugliosi, his is a voice of outrage, honor and truth.

  29. BullSh++++ said on August 9th, 2008 at 10:46am #

    Bush is the only President that had the guts too do what needed to be done. Clinton didn’t have any guts or 9/11 would never had happen. What did Clinton due when the Cole got bombed??nothing
    We know that Iraq did have gas because he gas his own people, women and children included. How easy would it had been for him too use that gas on other countries??? Saddam stood proud showing off his missiles on T.V. showing the world what he had and his large army. He was trying too but fear into his people and other Countries.
    9/11 was planned during Clinton’s Term not Bush. It wasn’t planned in 8 months but years. Anybody that thinks it was planned in 8 months needs too have there head examined.

  30. michael said on August 9th, 2008 at 11:07am #

    To the sergeant. I liked your tone and respect your opinion. I still take issue with one item. What do you have to say about Rumsfeld giving the green light “secretly” to Saddam to attack Kuwait after Hussien found out about British Petroleum slant drilling into Iraqi oil space and stealing oil? Isn’t that whay Saddam Invaded Kuwait in the first place? Wasn’t he set up? As far as Clinton is concerned wasn’t he the one who enforced the “no fly zone” over Iraq and continually authorized the bombing attacks during his administration to keep Iraq in the “stoneage”. As far as the oil pipeline situation I think you should do some more research about Bush vs Bridas. I am always amazed how right wingers especially military right wingers will side with the Hawk administrations so they can continue to validate themselves and their actions. You can also justify the killing of thousands of Iraqis because one nut managed to get a few saudis to do his dirty work. New world sarge. M

  31. Richarb Blocker said on August 9th, 2008 at 1:00pm #

    Mr. Vince is very much right on everything that he worte about the murder George Bush and all you dumass’s know it along with all of his buddies. I hope that he can get someone to take it to court. You can bet that he would be found guilty on all the murder charges. All of you stupid people that voted for Bush got just what to deserved.

  32. jack doyle said on August 9th, 2008 at 1:14pm #

    bush will be hard pressed to find any glowing reviews of his fiasco 8 years to enshrine in his Rice Univ. library, that will be a smalll punishment for a man who is a lingering terminal cancer on our body politic. Sad to say this regime will live in infamy like Pearl Harbor and our great grandchildren will suffer because of his mendacious lies.

  33. Max Shields said on August 9th, 2008 at 2:19pm #

    I agree that legal (not to mention human justice) case against Bush is powerful.

    But with it is a haunting delusion that keeps me wondering: Is George W. Bush really that far off from the legacy that is America?

    As I think about the case, the lies, I can’t help but think about the Bay of Tonkin that left almost 60,000 American dead, countless others with life long wounds, over 3 million throughout Vietnam, and Indochina. Then there is the questionable lead up to each and every war and invasion or act of US military aggression through the entire 20th Century. Pick a war and behind it are lies and deceipts. Think about Iran-Contra and the death squads and lies and propaganda and more…even the run up to WWII where the US put in place an embargo against Japan on steel before Perl Harbor. And of course the bloody and fabricated Monroe doctine rolled out by Wilson for one of the most brutal wars of human history.

    When was it that the US was ever facing an imminant threat that required the full throttle force of our military?

    So, while I believe in justice and the need to prosecute this man, George W. Bush and his underlings (and find away to go beyond that to actually transform the military industrial complex and the imperial empire that is its engine), I just can’t help but think “is there just a little disingenousness, a little self-deception to think we’ve found THE culprit?”

    Perhaps such a trial (and hopefully conviction) will be the cure…

  34. Barbara S said on August 9th, 2008 at 5:40pm #

    “Dedicated, brave Soldiers of the United States Army are fighting and sacrificing their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan so that ingrates like you won’t have to worry about another 3000 deaths on this soil. ”

    In response to your post Sergeant, I respectfully choose to disagree with some of your comments. I do, however, thank you for your service to this country.

    First of all, it is not only brave soldiers from the US Army who are sacrificing. I commend ALL of our branches of service members for their duty done while serving our country, at home or abroad!

    My Brother spent the first 15 years of his military service in the USMC. One of his many tdys was spent serving in the first Gulf War. After retiring in 1999 and subsequently seeing the result of 9-11, he was one of the first in line to re-up after the attack. Due to technicalities with his rank reinstatement, he enlisted with the Army as a First Sergeant and was again deployed to Iraq, some 12+ years after his retirement and first tour in Iraq.

    I have had the privilege of speaking, at length, to him and many of the returning soldiers from our state. I also spend a considerable amount of time corresponding with and reading about the feelings and experiences of our returning soldiers from all over the country. Many of them share opinions and feelings about what has and still is transpiring in Iraq and they are far different than some hardcore, hawkish soldiers, pencil pushers and politicians will care to admit. It has been described to me as being difficult to admit the realities of the misrepresentations and illusions that they once believed to be a valiant cause for their going to Iraq. In doing so, the mission would seem for naught and they would feel their service was invalidated by their ordered actions in Iraq being recognized differently and for other, less valiant reasons than that which they believed when initially deployed. Who does easily accept that they have been used and lied to by those that they serve and trust? They also feel a need to remain or return to stand beside their brothers and sisters at arms and to help them safely return home. This loyalty to their duty and their comrades should NEVER be mistaken for supporting the mission. They are simply following orders and doing the job that they signed on to do … serve our country however they are asked. Of course we cannot hold them accountable for doing their duty and following orders.

    These soldiers initially believed the very premise that you stated in your post, that going to serve and placing their lives in harms way, was somehow protecting and preserving safety and freedoms in the lives of their families and fellow Americans here at home. Many of the soldiers returning from their tours, now disagree vehemently. After being in Iraq, being denied the ability to do their jobs and often times held back from stopping the “insurgents,” their duties seem counterproductive to what they were told the mission was about. Many soldiers captured insurgents after they blew up or attempted to blow up their fellow soldiers, only to have the insurgents turned back out into the streets several days later, with their weapons in hand, again preparing to try to kill them. They now recognize the futility of this mission and the political pretense behind it. They are returning en masse, disillusioned and confused, but enlightened about the true mission that they were used for in Iraq. They are returning, less than the whole human beings that left and mentally and physically damaged beyond repair. There are multiple suicides and murders among these vets that you do not see splashed over the headlines of MSM, but rather the reports are hidden in isolated areas of the news where few people see them. These reports are nonetheless true and worrisome. Hiding their existence does not diminish the amount of damage that we have permitted nor does it erase culpability for the damages!

    Saddam was neutralized and his military power basically obliterated at the end of the first Gulf War in 1991 and he was never able to rebuild it to the desired potential, in part due to the restrictions we placed and our continued sanctions and monitoring. He had barely enough air power to fly from one side of Iraq to the other, had few weapons of any significant power and a disorganized, badly equipped military. He had nothing to do with 9-11, that has been proven. He had NO viable WMD other than buried remnants of those that WE, the US sold him in the 80s.

    The “success” of the surge is seen only through the reports and photo ops that we are permitted to view and based almost exclusively on footage shown from “the green zone” and where the little emerald city is well armored and protected, far away from the truth of the ground confrontation that occurs and hidden from daily news clip by a very deceitful administration. The “insurgents” and/or “Islamo-fascists,” two terms that have been conjured and hyped by this pro-war administration and their minions have moved across the borders and are now making Afghanistan the primary target for killing American soldiers.

    The cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, declared a cease fire in Iraq and if honesty prevails, can be credited with a great deal of the reduction of violence in Iraq, which began shortly before this administration announced it’s “surge” and near the time that we began paying cash to willing Iraqis and “insurgents” to stop fighting and to assist in holding down violence.

    While those of us who choose to see and acknowledge ALL of the data about this Iraq invasion may receive frequent put downs by folks that are pro-war and pro-Bush and while we may be labeled liberals, left wing nut jobs, and members, we are also wise enough to look beyond the one line media hype and the sound bites that are designed to attempt to tell us what to think and who and what to support and believe. The huge media campaign to brainwash us all, that was meticulously designed by this administration and the corporate controlled media is finally beginning to fall to pieces like a house of cards. Media hype, propaganda and photo ops are simply not enough to run a war for the long term and eventually people will expect, no, they will demand that we see tangible evidence that this was all beneficial to America and her people, as well as beneficial in introducing democracy to Iraq as was purported by the administration as one of the many excuses used to justify this invasion.

    There are no amount of rehearsed, positive talking points that can or ever will erase the following facts:

    1. Iraq and Saddam did not attack us on 9-11, nor did they aid in the attack. They had no WMD, were not attempting to buy yellow cake or nuclear components from Niger nor did the CIA possess any solid evidence of contact between Iraq and Al Qaeda or any evidence of an imminent threat, despite documented claims by the POTUS and high ranking officials to justify invasion.

    2. We still have not gotten the individual that planned and executed the attack on 9-11 and our President claims that he does not think about Bin Laden often. We have not succeeded in ending terror attacks across the world and we have not crippled Al Qaeda’s desire, intent nor attempts at destroying democracy, the US and her allies.

    4. MANY lies have been exposed and confirmed and all one need do is type “Iraq lies” into their search engine of choice to see but a few.

    5. MANY laws have been broken and subverted by a POTUS who claims to be above the law and getting his orders directly from God. When the checks and balances call him on his actions and Congress does their job and votes to disallow his actions, he simply adds an illegal “signing statement” on the books which says that he is above the law and that he will not honor the will of Congress or the people he is paid to serve.

    6. Religion and/or the “name of God” has been used as the excuse that has led to nearly every war in the history of this planet, most of which were unproductive and causing unnecessary death and destruction. Bush is not the first egomaniac to claim a war initiated in the name of God, nor will he be the last.

    7. The US government is PAYING many “insurgents” to cease violence and attacking our soldiers and to assist the military in holding the attacks back to give a false sense of success for the surge. The Iraqis are not doing so in support of the US and her mission. Once the US money flows ends, so does the calming effect that it has falsely presented.

    8. The Iraqi government, the one that WE placed in power, is demanding that we set a time table for withdrawal, something that Bush has refused the people of our own nation and all while we are being told here at home, that a premature withdrawal would be suicide and allow the insurgents to wait it out and then rush in and overtake Iraq once we withdraw. What will change in these next few months to assure that these same issues won’t occur, now that Iraq officials are demanding that we leave?

    9. We have spent trillions of dollars that we do not have, borrowed trillions from other countries and continue to run our country and it’s economy into oblivion, for decades to come. In the process, we have no clear victory in Iraq or the Middle East, an alarming energy and fuel crisis and no visible sign of ending terror attacks.

    What we do seem to have here are a bunch of defense contractors and special interest buddies that are overcharging the government (and the tax payers) millions of dollars, all while letting our soldiers do without proper, safe living quarters and showers, equipment, armor and supplies and getting very wealthy in the process. Then we sit here and listen to certain factions spew on that those of us who do not support the war don’t support our troops? Give me a break! Are those of us who do not support this war allowing our soldiers to do without proper armor and to live in quarters that are not electrically grounded properly, so that they are electrocuted while bathing. Are the anti-war citizens, who very much respect and support our soldiers, the individuals in charge of denying the men and woman the medical and psychological care that they need and deserve, once the return from doing GW’s bidding? I think not! These are simply more talking points used to manipulate and intimidate the populous of our country from speaking out too loudly and possibly interrupting their egomaniacal plans.

    This is yet another failure of government, but in this failure, we have permitted a few power and money hungry zealots to grab the collective brass ring, while giving them the controls and allowing them to spin the ride so fast, that they have sent the rest of us sailing right off into near oblivion and out of their way. I liken it to our Government’s “war on drugs” all of these years. While the Iraq war is much more serious, with far more losses and costs to each citizen and extreme repercussions that will be felt for decades to come, so are drugs still here and rampant, still are big business in the US and remain a huge threat to our citizens, children and country. The “war on drugs” has not ended the threat and trafficking of drugs and it will not end the threat and execution of terror plots and attacks. A war of any type will never end either of these threats.

    Of the small sampling that I have listed, perhaps the most disturbing of these lies and misrepresentations is that many pro-war people will keep repeating the verbiage that claims that our military are in Iraq and fighting to preserve OUR safety and OUR freedoms. Iraq was not an imminent threat to our safety and freedom and that is a proven fact. Our safety and freedoms however, have been severely limited, infringed upon, subverted and obliterated by this administration and it’s actions which use “National Security” as an excuse to steal away the very protections, laws, privacy and Constitutional rights that WERE once our claim to Democracy and a free society and which were the true intent of our system of Democracy.

    I have no issue whatsoever with someone claiming that we need to finish the job in Afghanistan. I would agree. Unfortunately, we took our focus and our forces away from there and at a crucial time, to send most of our resources to Iraq and now we are attempting to play catch up with greatly reduced resources. If we were to have a severe natural disaster here in the US, we do not have the resources necessary to respond and save lives. They are depleted. Our military personnel and equipment are depleted, regardless of what the fudges reports and inventory reports are stating.

    We dropped the ball in Afghanistan, where the terrorist that killed our people on our own soil had been hiding and protected. We may have had an early hold on the Taliban and on controlling that territory, but the Taliban is re-surging and we have had some of the bloodiest months ever recently. Most importantly, through all of the deaths, destruction and financial loss for our country, we still have yet to hold accountable the very person responsible for breaching our national security, for destroying our landmarks, for killing our citizens and for changing forever the very climate of our country, our home and our lives! There is nothing that frustrates me more than to see someone claiming that our soldiers are dying and risking life and limb in IRAQ, as a means of securing and protecting our freedoms here at home. That is simply a false, pretentious and vicious misrepresentation and demeans the intelligence and worth of the very soldiers that they claim to be supporting!

  35. Max Shields said on August 9th, 2008 at 6:11pm #

    Barbara S

    Now it is my turn to disagree with you. Afghanistan DID NOT attack the USA!!

    That should be more than clear. Afghanistan is a sovereign nation which did not launch an attack on the US. The individuals who have been associated with the attacks were mostly Saudis, NOT Afghanistans.

    Our attack appears to be in clear violation of the UN and Nurembergy tribunals which are integral to International law regarding what is permitted by a sovereign nation to defend itself.

    For more on this…
    Marjorie Cohn (president of the National Lawyers Guild) Afghanistan: The Other Illegal War(

  36. Barbara S said on August 9th, 2008 at 6:21pm #

    “Now it is my turn to disagree with you. Afghanistan DID NOT attack the USA!!”

    All due respect Max, I did not state that Afghanistan attacked us. I was implying and accurately so, that Bin Laden and his training camps were found to have been residing in Afghanistan, moving freely between the borders of Pakistan and Afghanistan, protected and assisted by the Taliban and other factions within their controlling bodies and complicit in shielding he and his Al Qaeda group. If that is where the mastermind was living, training and recruiting, where then should we have focused our energy at bringing to justice the perpetrator of the 9-11 attack?

  37. Max Shields said on August 9th, 2008 at 6:22pm #

    The point is that the invasion of Afghanistan was, and the subsequent occupation is, a violation of international law just as the invasion/occupation of Iraq was and is.

    The US government signed the UN charter which makes the invasions illegal. As a signatory of the UN charter the rules within that charter, including those on “war”, are automatically part of our Federal law. Therefore the invasion of both these countries breaks not only UN agreement, and International law, but also our own Federal law.

    In a word – there is no “good war” here. The US was not attacked by a nation-state but by a non-state. Nations all over the world are regularly attacked from within and from without by such actors. War takes a crime and creates the most horrific crime – murder against defenseless men, women and children. This is the ultimate crime against humanity and it is the US government that has perpetuated this in BOTH Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Here’s that link again:

  38. Max Shields said on August 9th, 2008 at 6:45pm #

    Barbara S.

    I just read your response. I don’t think I’m making myself clear. WE, the US Government, ATTACKED Afghanistan. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are very different entities who have been conflated for purposes of simplicity and propaganda by the US government.

    The people killed by the US military are primarily Afghan citizens who had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11.

    When a nation (invades) another, according to International and US Federal law, it can ONLY be for direct self-defence against an invading nation. The UN NEVER provided the authorization (based on the Charter the US Government signed which is binding law) to attack Afghanistan.

    The US is in clear violation of an illegal invasion both in Afghanistan and Iraq all on the pretext of 9/11 which was not an invasion by a country.

    Let’s put this another way. Suppose Cuba and Nicaragua invaded the US because we have terrorists here who regularly perform (or have performed) terrorists attacks on their people. Does that make sense to you?

    I suggest you read the link to Marjorie Cohen’s article before firing off a reply.

  39. Max Shields said on August 9th, 2008 at 6:49pm #

    As far as where we should have “focused” our energies post 9/11, we should have abided by the UN resolution which was clear about what was permitted given the attack and it was not an attack on a sovereign nation.

    “The U.N. Charter provides that all member states must settle their international disputes by peaceful means, and no nation can use military force except in self-defense or when authorized by the Security Council. After the 9/11 attacks, the council passed two resolutions, neither of which authorized the use of military force in Afghanistan. Resolutions 1368 and 1373 condemned the Sept. 11 attacks and ordered the freezing of assets; the criminalizing of terrorist activity; the prevention of the commission of and support for terrorist attacks; and the taking of necessary steps to prevent the commission of terrorist activity, including the sharing of information. In addition, it urged ratification and enforcement of the international conventions against terrorism.”

  40. Barbara S said on August 9th, 2008 at 6:54pm #

    Max, point well taken. I also agree with your statement that there is “no good war.”

    I suppose my comments about Afghanistan were more in line with denouncing ALL justification for invading Iraq. I had not thought through, nor recognized the violations that occured in regard to Afghanistan, simply because I saw Afghanistan as complicit. IF we were hell bent on invading anyone, in my opinion, Afghanistan seemed a more logical and justifiable choice.

    My opinion has always been that we should have exhausted all attempts at diplomatic resolution before using military force and invasion and should only use force in extreme situations where impending and imminent danger exists. I believe that Congress initially agreed and only gave authorization for the use of force if deemed absolutely necessary. It was Bush who unilaterally decided to declare war and invade Iraq, was it not?

    I agree that we should honor and follow the same International laws, treaties and rules that we expect others to honor and adhere to.

    As for the UN , GW has repeatedly threatened to withhold US involvement and participation unless reform (his idea of reform that would support his actions and wishes) takes place within the UN. That is one of the key points to my comments … he acts above the law and does not stand down to anyone or any legally recognized body, short of his own cabinet and should indeed be held accountable.

  41. Barbara S said on August 9th, 2008 at 7:03pm #

    Max, I have read the Cohen article and see where my comments were false assumptions and erroneous in regard to Afghanistand. I clearly saw the wrong in our invasion of Iraq, but was indeed missing the fact that any invasion of any country, at that given time, was illegal and improper according to the UN Charter. I stand corrected in my “justification” comments and thank you for directing me to that article.

  42. Max Shields said on August 9th, 2008 at 7:26pm #

    Barbara S.

    Appreciate your willingness to see the issue in a broader light.

    GW is certainly a major problem as he has taken the darkest side of our on going foreign policy and extended it, BUT as I mentioned in a post previous to yours, he is part of a long legacy which includes ignoring UN resolutions (particularly deflecting resolutions against the US client state – Israel).

    What made Afghanistan the “right war” for Americans was the desire to respond to 9/11. The connection between Taliban and Al Qaeda is more complex – and tied to US relations with the Taliban and OBL, who were allies during the Soviet/Afghan war.

    But it is clear that the Taliban did not plan an attack on the US. It was, as best we can tell, Al Qaeda. Since the Taliban ruled Afghanistan (US was supportive of that btw) it simplified the narrative to conflate the Taliban with Al Qaeda and thus “justify” an attack on Afganistan (against UN charter/US Federal law).

    See the DV article here on the killing that the US military has rained in this country and its civilian population:

    This cannot be justified by 9/11 or any act of terrorism. If the US had followed the UN resolution, non-military action would have been taken. There would be no endless “war on terror”, but instead the US would have taken the kind of action that the rest of the world has taken, which is to use a mix of collaborative intelligence and police work to uncover and dissolve “terrorists” activies along with a policy of peace which would have the US working in conjunction with the world as equal partners through mulilateral negotiations and long term relationship building based on trust (the basis for all successful human relations).

    The fact that our major political candidates don’t get this is perhaps the most troubling thing at this stage.

    Both these candidates are framing our foreign policy as a “war on terror”. That Bush term 3 – Obama/McCain.

  43. Paladin Pi said on August 9th, 2008 at 7:51pm #

    Thank you Mr. Bugliosi for having the balls it would seem 99% of congress and 90% of the American people lack. I dare say if John Adams or Thomas Jefferson could see what their “Grand Experiment” has digressed into they would be appalled and ashamed …you are 100% right sir… this country in thinly disguised as a democracy but in reality is a military-industrial oligarchy…pandering to the will of the few at the expence of the many …My son served 14 months in “The Bush War” and he is in total agreement that it was …is …and continues to be a complete waste of money …resourses …and vital young prime men and women …not just americans but all othersinvolved in this horror including the children that die or are maimed every day because …Mr. Bush wanted to show the world -after 9 11- that he has a penis and at the expense of others will try and fuck the world and the american people with it . Please Mr. Bugliosi …prosecute this criminal for what he is …and end his reign of terror once and for all…amen!

  44. Michael Collins said on August 9th, 2008 at 8:09pm #

    The dialog here is very interesting. I wanted to clarify a few points.

    First, this is not a partisan issue. The war was conceived and executed by the Republicans. The Democrats, who had much more information than they’ll admit, did abdicate their responsibilities and allowed it to go forward. In addition, they keep funding it.

    Second, Bush isn’t the only person responsible; he’s just the one who was nominally in charge. That’s where you start. There really isn’t a lot in dispute here. The facts are clear. The NEI was doctored to eliminate the nature of Saddam’s threat. The scenario for his action against the U.S. was limited to this – a U.S. attack that threatened his survival. That was it and that threat was, as the NEI said, not supported by any evidence that he was planning for such a response. The other threat to the U.S. proposed by Bush to justify the invasion was the interaction between Saddam and al Qaeda. There was and there has not been a shred of evidence to support this.

    Add it up. Zero justification for war. Case closed.

    Max brought up a good point on the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. I fully agree. This fraud started Viet Nam. The liars who perpetrated it should have been brought to justice. Had that happened, we wouldn’t be in Iraq. The point would have been made.

    Among the many good points made by Barbara S, I was especially attentive to the comments on the soldiers. They had no choice. They signed up, they were given the order with the rationale, and they had no reason not to believe it. They join to serve their country and they deserve the very best the nation can offer. That means when they’re sent to war, it’s for a solid reason concerning the national defense. This was not the case and that compounds the tragedy of the suffering and the losses.

    It is clear that Congress does not act in the interest of the people. We are nothing to them. In 2006, there was a clear expression by the people to get out of Iraq. What did Congress do? Nothing

    If the people are to take back control of the government, the best available means to do that needs to be employed. Violence is not and acceptable alternative, in my opinion. However, a clear case of murder, tried in a court of law might make the point to future presidents and any others who might be brought to justice over this – be aware that you actions have real world consequences.

  45. Barbara S said on August 9th, 2008 at 8:25pm #

    There is indeed an ongoing problem and an unwillingness to “stand in line with” other nations and the UN. I surely see the trend that you point out Max. I agree that Iraq is not the first such case and saw comparisons with LBJ and Viet Nam immediately. I had not given much thought to the others that you mentioned, before now. In the case of Iraq, it has been so overt and the actions of this administration so defiant, that there seems little room for misinterpretation of their intentions and as I see this playing through, we have much more to lose and very little to be gained … especially if the threats to Iran become reality and we attack and/or invade. Of course, I can see Israel being our “excuse” for attacking and the “necessity” for us to defend them as the justification for potential military action and fear that these threats will come to fruition before our election arrives.

    Do you suppose that it is our constant need to display superiority or a more sinister reason that our leaders choose to continue on this spiral? Can it be that the emerging talk of plans for a new world order are more than the pipe dream of the power hungry and wealthy? It is hard to concieve that such plans can actually be true and the events outlined in their “manifesto” being executed or perpetrated.

    Power, wealth and the Industrial Military Complex “model” that we seem more and more inclined to use to define this country and her leaders, becomes an overwhelming and frightening concept. If one sits and thinks about the “progression of aggression” that we see emerging, unapologetically, through prior actions of government and through these recent, escalated actions by the Bush Administration, it is easy to see the possibilities of catostrophic events that seem quite possible and seem almost inevitable and make the need for true change, perhaps more emergent than we think.

    While I understand that others before Bush have asserted similar, defiant actions, his have seemed to be beyond reason and without any regard for our country and citizens as a whole. I do not ever recall such overt defiance, disregard for our laws and abuse of our Constitutional structure, privacy and personal freedoms.

    Thinking about the election that is drawing near rapidly, I truly shudder to think what will happen to our country with either of these candidates assuming leadership for the next 4-8 years. This country is in such a serious state, that I think the absolute purest, well intentioned and experienced array of politicians would not be nearly enough to pull us from the deterioration and decline that we face economically and Internationally, not to mention the plethora of other, “smaller” concerns that we currenty face as a nation. We need the cream of the crop, so to speak and I do not believe that we have them available as our choices.

  46. Barbara S said on August 9th, 2008 at 8:47pm #

    Michael I appreciate and respect your statements and I apologize if my posts seem partisan in any way. Frankly, I am not pleased with any branch of our Govt. right now, nor am I supporting one party over another in regard to this Iraq debacle. A myriad of mistakes have been made, indifference and complacency abound and both parties are responsible for this mess and need to own responsibility indeed.

    It is very true that violence is not the way to combat these issues. Making an example of those who break our laws, regardless of their position of power within our system, would be the most productive and effective means to halt, or at very least deter future attempts at similar actions. Mr. Bugliosi’s method of choice, to get the message out and to try to enlighten others is an excellent, non-violent and productive approach and his suggestion of prosecution would clearly be a tremendous way to right some of the wrongs. It would also serve to remind everyone that we are still a civilized democracy, governed by laws. A murder charge and the proper indictments would be paramount in setting the nation back on track.

    Mr. Bugliosi has done a brilliant presentation of facts and has laid a great deal of the ground work for such a case or cases to be initiated. I truly hope that from the judicial and legal genius that we have in this country, someone will step forward and run with this ball.

  47. Max Shields said on August 10th, 2008 at 4:56am #


    I hadn’t noticed your post before this. These wars are bi-partisan. I’ve yet to find anything particularly unusual about the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan that doesn’t have precedence in previous administrations.

    As I’ve said, legally, each and everyone, certainly once the UN was formed and charter signed, was completely and utterly illegal. I mentioned the Bay of Tonkin resolution which was a total fraud with millions dead.

    From a purely legal perspective, I would start with the Korean war. Again over a million dead. I believe this was the beginning of non-declared US warring, and after the Nuremberg Tribunal and UN charter specifying the condition for war the US administration – Truman – had committed crimes against humanity. Korea was incapable of attacking the US and yet the US aggressively and willfully attacked Korea and then has occupied it for nearly 60 years (sounds like McCain and Iraq).

    (The UN was created to eliminate the agression of WWI and WWII; but its power was curtailed by the Security Council veto structure and the problems that exist when an entity is a monopoly – in this case the US.)

    The two candidates, and the current POTUS, are not speaking and acting in isolation. This is American legacy. It is our blood stained history. It would be so easy, as it is for many, to see where we are as some kind of anomoly; the “Iraq is the most catastrophic foreign policy in US history” propaganda. It may turn out to be – as I suspect – the nail in the coffin, but it clearely followed a few centuries old trajectory of imperialism.

    Still, I support the prosecution of G.W. Bush and his administration. Our challenge is to do it in such a way as to realize the culpability and complicity of many; and to dismantle the war machine. That is the only way meaningful justice can be attained. I doubt we have the capacity for that. Like children we were given a toy – a republic – and we ran it into a ditch decades ago. And now we don’t know how to act like adults.

  48. Barbara S said on August 10th, 2008 at 9:43am #

    Max said,
    “Still, I support the prosecution of G.W. Bush and his administration. Our challenge is to do it in such a way as to realize the culpability and complicity of many; and to dismantle the war machine. That is the only way meaningful justice can be attained. I doubt we have the capacity for that.”

    Max I agree that we must realize the complicity and culpability of many in this situation and that each person responsible for these actions should be held accountable. I disagree with doubting that we have the capacity. I believe that in this particular situation, once someone has the impetus to come forth and tackle the task of initiating criminal charges, there will be a snowball effect and others will follow suit.

    I am sure there will be a huge movement to try to thwart prosecution. There is such a need for catharsis in this country, that when the momentum begins with a prosecution, if we can arrive at that initial stage, I believe there will be such wide spread support that I can actually envision this being one of the only ways to retrieve our dignity, restore and renew our laws, Constitution and the faith that we have held for our democracy.

    I personally see this as one of the only ways to reverse some of the damage that has been done in recent decades. It certainly won’t be realized by means of political action. Legal intervention seems the only venue that would have the power to be a catalyst for change of this magnitude.

  49. Max Shields said on August 10th, 2008 at 10:59am #


    Just a clarification, I didn’t say that I doubted that there was the capacity for prosecution. The wheels of justice, particularly once GWB is out of office – do tend to move. What I doubt is the capacity to “dismantle the war machine”. Short of that the imperial empire lives on.

    It could very well be that the necessary impetus to take on fundamental change will happen. We had some of that post Vietnam/Watergate, but the empire was still in tact and reared its ugly head to fight another day.

    The EU has made some headway in this direction given the destruction of WWI and WWII.

  50. Max Shields said on August 10th, 2008 at 11:03am #

    Never underestimate the American centers of power. Fundamental change short of a violent revolution which would be beyond bloody, can come with a collapse and non-fascistic replacement at the ready (if we’re lucky). So, far I see none of that on the horizon.

  51. Barbara S said on August 10th, 2008 at 11:52am #

    Understood an agreed Max. Thanks for the clarification. With all of the facets, lest we not forget monetary gain that is a part of the “war machine,” you may well be correct on that note. I truly wish to believe that there is some hope, soon to emerge on the horizon.

    We can only hope that while we sit here and discuss and debate and while we see a possibility for action, any action that would be pro-change, we can also assume that there are many more like us and that somewhere within the numbers there will be those who have the power, ability and will to fashion a change. Even if it begins as a modest effort, I must trust in my belief that others will follow suit and demand that we re-evaluate and reconstruct our broken system and government and will begin to rebuild it, with consideration for and in conjuction with our citizens and in the best interest of the country as a whole. I know it seems a bit idealistic, but we are a people of many, with intelligence, dignity, integrity and justice still remaining as integral parts of our belief system and I trust that there will be those who will step forward and assist in reversing some of the damage.

    Pain and loss are extreme motivating factors for people and we are a country filled with extreme pain and loss.

  52. Sam said on August 10th, 2008 at 3:56pm #

    “Prosecuting George W. Bush for Murder?”

    Ain’t going to happen now or in the future, unfortunately. And likely the same for Tony Blair.

    I have little patience for all this wishful-thinking and syrupy false hope.

    I’ve heard the rabid Obama loons speaking about “holding his feet to the fire.” That has worked so splendidly since 2000 hasn’t it with all these other Bush-enabling Dems, such as Pelosi? I’ve notice this “we” is really holding Pelosi’s feet to the fire on impeachment and murder. The woman doesn’t give a damn what “we” think. Ain’t gonna happen. As Mike Malloy asks: “HOW do you hold a politician’s feet to the fire?”

    We are living in a very different time and place now than in any place in history for this nation. So people can drag up history and historical events from the past but those days don’t really apply to today because we are living in an increasing Dictatorship today. It’s a very different time.

    The fact is these scum of the Earth politicians don’t give a damn what any of us think. Period. So all of this “we must do ” and “we can do” is all bull shit dreamy wishful-thinking. I’ve been hearing this crap since 2000 and look at the state of things. How much more does one need to see to grasp that these people don’t care what “we” think? And this “we” group is very small in the big scheme of things. Most people aren’t even paying attention to what’s going on. They’re more concerned with when “American Idol” is on.

    Following the 2000 stolen “election” a few people protested nationwide in cities. I took part in the protest in my city and we were told to “get over it.” There were no protest following the 2004 stolen “election.” Bush-enabler John Kerry couldn’t get to the microphone fast enough to concede to Bush.

    Some people write as if we are still in the days of “politics as usual.” We aren’t. Those days ended the night of the 2000 Judicial Coup when these criminals were selected to reside in the White House. Bush and Cheney may leave in January 2009 but I’m not expecting them to and there is no one to force them to leave. Just the other day (this past Thursday or Friday) there was an article on a credible news site saying that Bush had given himself MORE secret powers. Does that sound like someone who has any intention of leaving to you? Exactly WHY would Bush need more secret powers if he supposedly only has roughly 5 months remaining?

  53. Barbara S said on August 10th, 2008 at 6:25pm #

    As was stated previously, this is not an Obama nor partisan issue. This is an issue that has to do with morality, laws and the survival of our democracy, but for the sake of a response, I will touch on my opinions of the political aspect.

    Regarding Bush, I would tend to agree that there is cause for concern if indeed he is annointing himself and his Administration with additionl, far reaching power at this late stage in his Presidency.

    IMHO, regarding Obama, he is just another politician who has found a way to use motivational speaking to sway many into believing that he is different and holds the key to correcting the transgressions of the “typical D.C. mentality.” HOGWASH! The rhetoric and claim of change we can believe in, coming from any political entity, is a facade and THAT is syrupy false hope!

    Everyone is entitled to their own political opinions and choices. The following is mine. There are NO politicians who can walk into office and fix these messes in 4-8 years. It would not serve their political longevity to do so, which depletes the desire and possibility that most of our politicians would entertain any intent to participate in the criminalization of a political colleague. It would hit too close to home for most of them.

    The answers to rectifying these issues are not political answers. These politicians used their power and position to accomplish stretching, coloring, bending and breaking our laws, but nonetheless, they still broke LAWS and that becomes a judicial issue. NO citizen is exempt from following the laws of the US.

    The politicians have become professional salary collectors who do not give a rip about anyone outside of their own families, the special interest groups that shower them with extra comforts and possibly their bankers.

    I DO hold hope and faith in our judicial system. Local juridictions have the right and responsibility, as Mr. Bugliosi points out, to file their own charges for the deaths of each one of their citizens that occurred as a result of these illegal occupations and attacks. The higher, Federal court judges who have been selected and who seem to function in accord with their party and it’s political pressure, cannot silence the entire judiciary of 50 states. Not to imply that all would participate, but if enough do there will be notoriety, publicity and action and more people will become enlightened and aware, which is bound to apply additional pressure.

    These are not false, syrupy hopes, but true possibilities and realistic options and it is up to each of us, you and I, to speak out and encourage our local officials and judiciary to use the power that they have. They have a responsibility to honor the will of the people they serve and give serious evaluation to the possibility of criminal prosecution and charges of murder.

    We have thousands of municipal and state judges across this nation and if enough accept indictments there will be action of some sort. There needs to be a starting point. This book and Mr. Bugliosi’s suggestions, organization of legal points, testimony and display of facts are the best that I have seen thus far. There are few of our countrymen/women that are stepping forward with concrete suggestions and this is one worthy of examination and effort!

    Remaining silent, negative, hopeless and complacent only adds to the problem and does nothing to attempt to resolve it. It most certainly encourages continued lawlessness. What is to stop future administrations from carrying these choices and illegal actions to the next level if we do not hold accountable those who have committed, permitted and encouraged the rogue, lawless actions that have already been perpetrated?

  54. Sam said on August 10th, 2008 at 8:19pm #

    Barbara S,

    What you call “negative, hopeless and complacent,” I call realistic and pragmatic.

    I’m a realist. I could engage in all kinds of head-in-the-clouds wishful-thinking and false hope, but I know it would be futile to do so based on what I’ve seen since 2000.

    You wrote:

    “What is to stop future administrations…”

    Oh you think there will be a future one, do you? There may be but I wouldn’t bet on it. I don’t think the illegitimate Bush regime is going anywhere. Even if they physically leave, they are not going anywhere. They didn’t steal 2 presidential “elections” just to willingly and easily turn their increasing Dictatorship over to somebody else, unless they are quite confident that a new person will continue the Dictatorship. They didn’t put Directive 51 in place without any intention of ever using it.

    You wrote:

    “We have thousands of municipal and state judges across this nation and if enough accept indictments there will be action of some sort.”

    When has this ever happened in the past?

  55. Barbara S said on August 10th, 2008 at 9:25pm #

    Realism and pragmatism acknowledged, I would like to believe that the suggestion that even Bush and Cheney are so evil as to execute a plan to permit invoking NSPD-51 for their ultimate and infinite grab of power, is purely paranoia. I pray that I am accurate in my belief. Having said the above … nothing would truly surprise me at this point.

    [You wrote:

    “We have thousands of municipal and state judges across this nation and if enough accept indictments there will be action of some sort.”

    When has this ever happened in the past?]

    I do not recall the American people being quite so angry, frustrated and disillusioned as we find ourselves now and over the events of this past 7 1/2 years. Desperation and a general feeling of total impotence can lead to the evolution of plans and actions that were only previously a passing thought or fantasy.

    I would hope that as intelligent humans, we would exert all power, ability and energy to prevent actions like the supposition you mention, from becoming reality. As I stated some posts back, we are a nation of over 300 million people. Surely we would find a way to reign in the maniacal actions of a few hundred zealots?

    I must admit, however, that I have found myself developing scenarios in my head in recent months, of how this administration might plan and execute an attack on Iran, instigating a retaliatory (nuclear?) attack … or even more frightening, a homegrown, catastophic event on our own soil that would lead to the justification of declaring marshall law and the premise for them to execute such supreme measures of grabbing infinite power and control. I push these thoughts from my head quickly as I can’t conceive that something so sinister could actually happen in this country. Call it idealistic, naive or denial, but I truly wish to believe that these thoughts are indeed paranoia and not probable.

  56. Sam said on August 10th, 2008 at 9:44pm #

    Speaking of head-in-the-clouds wishful-thinking and false hope…

    I remember before the 2006 “election” the Dem koolaid drinkers had convinced themselves that it was critical to put the Dems in the majority in congress because the Dems would supposedly do a “180″ overnight (according to them) and stop enabling Bush just because they had more people with a big D behind their name among their ranks.

    I said that was bullshit. I said that the Dems could have every seat in the House and Senate and not a damn thing would change. The Dem koolaid drinkers called me and others “negative, hopeless, and complacent.”

    The Dem koolaid drinkers said Pelosi wasn’t serious when she said “impeachment is off the table.” They said she was just saying that to “play the game to fool the Repugs” And that “you’ll see…Bush will be impeached with Dems in the majority and Pelosi as speaker.”

    I said that was also bullshit. I said Pelosi was absolutely serious when she said (several times) “impeachment is off the table.” I told them that the Dems were not about to impeach the very people (Bush/Cheney) they had been enabling since 2000 because they would implicate themselves in any impeachment hearings.

    The Dem koolaid drinkers again called me “negative, hopeless and complacent” and they said I didn’t know what the hell I was talking about.

    Then six to eight months after the Dems became the majority I asked the loony Dem koolaid drinkers why their beloved Dems weren’t doing anything, other than to continue to enable Bush. They excused the Dems in congress by saying:

    “You have to give them tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime. They just became the majority. They need tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime.”

    I told them, “you’ll be saying that tired line 2 years from now.”

    I was again called “negative.”

    Today, the Dem koolaid drinkers look like the damn fools they were/are living with their illusions, delusions and grandiose head-in-the-clouds wishful-thinking and false hope about their precious Dems.

    But they didn’t learn a damn thing from that experience because today they are mindlessly changing:

    Gotta vote Obama. Gotta vote Dem.

    The suckers. Some people never learn.

    And “we” are still waiting for The People to get upset enough to do something about all of this.

    Oh, but nevermind, there’s “American Idol” and “Big Brother” and endless streams of sports on all media. And you ask someone about Cindy Sheehan or Dennis Kucinich and people have never heard of either! … and they don’t know that anything is going wrong in this country at all.

  57. Barbara S said on August 10th, 2008 at 10:21pm #

    Correction … I had a blonde moment when typing MARTIAL Law. Pardon the silly spelling. Sometimes my fingers can’t keep up with my thoughts. lol

  58. Mike said on August 10th, 2008 at 10:30pm #

    RIChris: It isn’t exactly fair to list Polk as a Democrat. True, he was technically a Democrat, but Democrats were not today’s Democrats. Polk’s particular faction was known as “Jeffersonian Democrats” (very conservative), which has evolved 180 degrees to the crap we have today. Polk’s enigma was his war to steal western states from Mexico — totally out of character for a Jeffersonian Democrat.

    Whether other presidents have also instigated illegal wars is immaterial. At some point, Americans MUST put an end to unconstitutional criminality by its leaders to set ourselves back on a just and righteous path. To say that we strayed under past leadership is a poor reason to continue the same direction. VB isn’t justifying the past — he’s simply saying, “Enough is enough!”

    Michael Collins: I disagree that soldiers “had no choice.” You always have a choice, its just a matter of what you’re willing to risk for honor. Soldiers never agree to defend the administration’s policies or even their country — their oath is to “protect and defend the Constitution.” If they’re convinced that this war is unconstitutional, they have a moral duty to refuse to fight and take the consequences. We didn’t accept “just following orders” in Nuremberg and we shouldn’t accept it now.

  59. Barbara S said on August 10th, 2008 at 10:52pm #

    Sam you and I have never discussed or debated prior to these few posts. Yet it seems evident that you are more interested in insulting those who fit your idea of “Democrats, kool aid drinkers and liberals,” than you are interested in presenting and sharing your positions and remaining open to the opinions of others for the sake of healthy debate. This is a formula for antagonism and hostility and results in nothing productive.

    I have seen this occur on far too many blogs to be party to continuing to try to debate with someone who obviously possesses such superior intellect and insight. Your opinions are right and all others are wrong.
    I concede! Have a pleasant evening … I am off to watch American Idol.

  60. Sam said on August 11th, 2008 at 1:56am #

    Barbara S,

    My comment of August 10th, 2008 at 9:44 pm was not intended for you necessarily. It was intended for anyone who reads it. If I had intended it specifically for you I would have addressed it to you.

    I was simply relaying my experiences with Dem koolaid drinkers (that’s the large group who blindly support the Dead Democratic Party no matter what they do FOR the Bush regime). But my comment apparently touched a nerve for you to respond as you did. Perhaps you were part of that group around 2006 I wrote about in that comment? I don’t know. But if so, all I have to say in response is: the truth hurts doesn’t it?

    I know you were trying to be sarcastic and smug, but it took absolutely no “superior intellect or insight” on my part (and those who shared my view) to understand before the 2006 “election” that NOTHING WAS GOING TO CHANGE by making Dems the majority. Period. I had seen them enable Bush/Cheney/Rove with their “yes” votes, their complicity and silence since 2000. So why would I believe that the Dems were going to flip and do a “180” and overnight stop enabling Bush just because they were now in the majority? LOL. And since the 2006 “election” NOTHING has changed. It has only gotten worse with every passing day since because the pro-war, pro-corporate, pro-Bush, pro-torture, pro-spying on US citizens, pro-USAPATRIOT ACT, pro-Alito, pro-Roberts Democratic Party is DEAD as far as working for We The People. They work for the Bush regime and have since 2000 and it’s time that these thick Dems koolaid drinking suckers realize that, but most of them are not about to because they were programmed with that party-line D at a very early age and that’s all they know and can think, just like other people were programmed with that party-line R at a very age. And when most people can’t think beyond D or R, nothing is going to change in this nation. It’s part of their programming just like the belief in a supreme being is part of most people’s programming. Try to deprogramme THAT. Good luck. Ain’t going to happen with most people.

    It takes no “superior intellect or insight” on my part to see any of this. I just look at the reality, and that’s what I (and others) see. Other people could see this, if they want to. But most Dems supporters refuse to see it. They want so hard to believe in their beloved Dems who are really Repugs with a big D behind their name.

    It’s long past due that people see the Dem politicians for who and what they are, and NOT who and what people want and expect them to be, because the latter is not going to happen judging by all the rabid Walk-On-Water Obama supporters who have completely bought into this man’s hope and change bullshit.

    Also, I don’t necessarily think of Dem koolaid drinkers as “Liberals” even though many of them will claim to be. In part, because they will often make excuses and apologies for their Bush-enabling politicians NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO FOR BUSH/CHENEY. Well, that makes them (the Dem supporters) enablers of Bush/Cheney as well. It’s “Liberal” to help Bush and Cheney continue the formation of their Dictatorship? I-don’t-think-so.

    I presented my position(s) and I read yours. I just don’t agree with yours.

    Your response to me is very typical of how the Dem koolaid drinkers respond to me. That’s usually how they respond with a smug “oh you are so intelligent Sam, and have such superior intellect and we are so stupid.”

    Well, based on their actions and behavior since 2000 I’d have to agree with the last part. The Dem koolaid drinkers are pretty damn thick. They are as useless as the D politicians they support. They are blinded by that big D. And talking with them is like talking to a brick wall, regardless of the approach one uses.

    The Definition of Insanity:

    Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

    Like voting for Dems one “election” cycle after the other and expecting a different result. Duh.

    As for the Repugs, unfortunately they get their agenda rammed through congress whether they are in the minority or the majority. The same cannot be said about the useless and worthless Dems whatsoever. They enable the Repugs whether they (the Dems) are in the minority or the majority.

    ——————- Nader/Gonzalez 2008, if there is an “election.”

  61. Ambergris said on August 11th, 2008 at 7:02am #

    Accepting the legality of charges Bugliosi has laid out, could charges be brought against Pelosi, Rice, Rumsfled or some collaborationist Senators?
    Who could bring the charges, local DAs? Of 3000 US counties, not one DA has brought charges relating to the frauds of the Bush administration. It is clearly a lot easier to haul a member of the house or senate into court than the president. Just ask Sen. Larry Craig or Sen. Ted Stevens.

  62. Barbara S said on August 11th, 2008 at 9:14am #

    Sam you do not know my party affiliation nor my political stance and should not assume that you do. Some of the basis of your points, I believe to be accurate, but tearing apart the parties with very partisan and “canned” insults does not solve anything.

    We do need to have a serious look at our two (primary) party system. It has not been working for quite some time and is no longer serving the people of our country or our democracy. I also agree that the shift of power in Congress, minimal as it was, has done nothing to assist in resolving our troubles. Congress has not done the appropraite, corrective job that many had hoped they would after the elections. As Mr. Collins stated several posts back, they do not care about the people. Their choices seem based purely on protecting their career, comfort and income.

    If we sit here and debate about this and continue to habitually point out the mistakes and faults, with no plans, no vision, no suggestions and no ideas for action that might help to force accountability and correct the balance of power, or imbalance, as it were, what are we accomplishing? Complaining becomes part of the problem, if there is no intent or vision of changing that which we are complaining about.
    What good will it do to assign blame without some plan, ANY plan of action to TRY to force necessary change?

    All through the history of our country, there have been men and women who have hopes and a vision for the future and while their ideas may fail at first, eventually there is a catalyst that sparks change and change occurs. This will again be the case for America, at some point. My hope is sooner than later.

    Call me what you will, but I choose not to expend my energy focusing on everything bad, without considering that there is also some good and that eventually another shift will occur and some balance will return to our government and our system. We need to see some victories for justice and re-enforce that we are a free nation of laws and equality. We have more power than our leaders would like us to believe and more power than many are willing to exert, but there are answers and solutions if we choose to work toward finding and employing them.

    It was the vision of a handful of men who saw a better way of life, a better way to govern people and to create a balanced system which is what made America and made her different and a leader among nations. We have lost sight in the vision … because we have allowed and enabled a serious imbalance of power to steal away the very premise of our democracy and there will be no healing, no change, no return of balance and order in our society, until the power hungry criminals are brought to justice for all to see. If they can be brought to justice, that will restore some of the faith that our citizens have lost and will encourage people to be more watchful to assure that such an imbalanced shift can never occur again.

  63. Michael Collins said on August 11th, 2008 at 3:55pm #

    Among the many well taken points, Allen asked a very good question: My question is how can he and others get away with everything it is that they have done, is there no one out there to challenge him and Cheney for what they’ve done? ”

    Max Shields raised a critical issue – is Iraq that far out of line with other adventures: “But with it is a haunting delusion that keeps me wondering: Is George W. Bush really that far off from the legacy that is America?”

    And Sam expressed skepticism about the Democrats ability to do anything positive.

    Barbara S offered some hope, with “Even if it begins as a modest effort, I must trust in my belief that others will follow suit and demand that we re-evaluate and reconstruct our broken system and government and will begin to rebuild it, with consideration for and in conjunction with our citizens and in the best interest of the country as a whole.”

    How do Bush and others “get away with it” all the time, never face any consequences for their manifestly disgusting behavior? Two reasons. As Max Shields said, the Iraq war is not unprecedented. Look at the Phlilipinnes invasion and occupation and fast forward to Viet Nam. Those adventures were predicated on lies. The list of over 100 incursions into other countries builds the case. What makes Bush so unique, however, is the grossness of the enterprise. There was no national interest. There was no attack. All that we had was a stolen election in 2000 and a bunch of crooks who steal everything that isn’t nailed down. The excess of the event and the bold face lies make this unique with in a class of foreign adventures that were unjustified.

    A second reason this was possible is the complicity of the Democratic leadership. Sam is right to say that “hope” in the Democrats is folly. 2006 was a classic bait and switch operation pulled off by Emanuel with the cynicism of P.T. Barnum but without the redeeming features of a great show. The Democrats who voted for this war knew what was happening. Only a few members of Congress went to see the White Paper on Iraq, a pack of lies, but the “evidence.” They knew and voted for the war anyway. Clinton’s speech is paradigmatic, Edwards a disgrace, and Kerry, my God!

    Barbara S sees hope that there is a group of like minded people who will push for real change. In point of fact, Barbara S, good news – the majority share our views. Before the war 60% plus Republicans and 70% plus Democrats favored exhaustive inspections before invasion. They were not convinced that Iraq was an imminent danger to the U.S. Then the non stop lies started, supported by the complicit media, and the threats, particularly the nuclear option, were parlayed into public support based on fabrications.

    Here’s what’s unique and beneficial about Bugliosi’s proposal. it does not rely on a huge national debate, which won’t happen due to the media Matrix operation. It doesn’t rely on cowardly politicians standing with the people. It just takes a motivated prosecutor, in a particular local and a grand jury. *It is the ultimate in citizens holding leaders responsible for their actions.* It can’t be stopped, especially where the District/States Attorney is elected. No fed will show up and show a badge demanding this stop. That can’t happen. Just think of it, a real trial in a real courtroom that will hold those responsible for this travesty to account by the law. No body disagrees that murder is a crime. Let the trial begin.

    N.B. To Mike, I respect your opinion on responsibility and I’m aware of brave soldiers who have refused to go back to Iraq. Nevertheless, I maintain that, in practical terms, the soldiers are ultimately coerced in these situations but become fierce opponents of the same when in a position to do so. I like the Roman system in place for a period during the Republic – they voted on wars or the pirates of the late 1600’s who had a real democracy.

  64. Michael Collins said on August 11th, 2008 at 4:02pm #

    Among the many well taken points, Allen asked a very good question: My question is how can he and others get away with everything it is that they have done, is there no one out there to challenge him and Cheney for what they’ve done? ”

    Max Shields raised a critical issue – is Iraq that far out of line with other adventures: “But with it is a haunting delusion that keeps me wondering: Is George W. Bush really that far off from the legacy that is America?”

    And Sam expressed skepticism about the Democrats ability to do anything positive.

    Barbara S offered some hope, with “Even if it begins as a modest effort, I must trust in my belief that others will follow suit and demand that we re-evaluate and reconstruct our broken system and government and will begin to rebuild it, with consideration for and in conjunction with our citizens and in the best interest of the country as a whole.”

    How do Bush and others “get away with it” all the time, never face any consequences for their manifestly disgusting behavior? Two reasons. As Max Shields said, the Iraq war is not unprecedented. Look at the Philippines invasion and occupation and fast forward to Viet Nam. Those adventures were predicated on lies. The list of over 100 incursions into other countries builds the case. What makes Bush so unique, however, is the grossness of the enterprise. There was no national interest. There was no attack. All that we had was a stolen election in 2000 and a bunch of crooks who steal everything that isn’t nailed down. The excess of the event and the bold face lies make this unique with in a class of foreign adventures that were unjustified.

    A second reason this was possible is the complicity of the Democratic leadership. Sam is right to say that “hope” in the Democrats is folly. 2006 was a classic bait and switch operation pulled off by Emanuel with the cynicism of P.T. Barnum but without the redeeming features of a great show. The Democrats who voted for this war knew what was happening. Only a few members of Congress went to see the White Paper on Iraq, a pack of lies, but the “evidence.” They knew and voted for the war anyway. Clinton’s speech is paradigmatic, Edwards a disgrace, and Kerry, my God!

    Barbara S sees hope that there is a group of like minded people who will push for real change. In point of fact, Barbara S, good news – the majority share our views. Before the war 60% plus Republicans and 70% plus Democrats favored exhaustive inspections before invasion. They were not convinced that Iraq was an imminent danger to the U.S. Then the non stop lies started, supported by the complicit media, and the threats, particularly the nuclear option, were parlayed into public support based on fabrications.

    Here’s what’s unique and beneficial about Bugliosi’s proposal. it does not rely on a huge national debate, which won’t happen due to the media Matrix operation. It doesn’t rely on cowardly politicians standing with the people. It just takes a motivated prosecutor, in a particular local and a grand jury. *It is the ultimate in citizens holding leaders responsible for their actions.* It can’t be stopped, especially where the District/States Attorney is elected. No fed will show up and show a badge demanding this stop. That can’t happen. Just think of it, a real trial in a real courtroom that will hold those responsible for this travesty to account by the law. No body disagrees that murder is a crime. Let the trial begin.

    N.B. To Mike, I respect your opinion on responsibility and I’m aware of brave soldiers who have refused to go back to Iraq. Nevertheless, I maintain that, in practical terms, the soldiers are ultimately coerced in these situations but become fierce opponents of the same when in a position to do so. I like the Roman system in place for a period during the Republic – they voted on wars or the pirates of the late 1600’s who had a real democracy.

  65. Andrew Yu-Jen Wang said on October 19th, 2008 at 3:31pm #

    Vincent Bugliosi has written an exceptional book, “THE PROSECUTION OF GEORGE W. BUSH FOR MURDER,” offering sound legal arguments under which Bush can be and should be prosecuted for murder in the future. There is no statute of limitations for murder. A prosecution for murder against George W. Bush can be commenced at any time. In history, there are other evil government characters who were practically untouchable when they had committed whichever murders, but they were later brought down or destroyed for killing people. Hopefully, Bugliosi’s dream will come true. Hopefully, Bush will one day find himself incarcerated for murdering more than 4,000 people.

    Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
    B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
    Messiah College, Grantham, PA
    Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993

  66. Blake said on November 17th, 2008 at 11:18am #

    Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

    I don’t like President Bush, but you know what? He’s our president and to SOME degree it’s common courtesy to show SOME form of respect to his office, even if not to him. This is why we get attacked, laughed at, and disrespect, we have no loyalty to our leaders and we allow ourselves to get bullied into thinking that we’re “idiots” for being loyal or “unpatriotic” for being free-thinkers.

    Perhaps all of you should look at your own stands and wonder if that party loyalty/hate is the right thing to have. I wasn’t old enough to vote for Bush but I probably would have if I’d of been given the choice. I did not vote for Barack Obama but since he is, now, the president elect? I’ll respect his office.

    Know this, overly 98% of you would most likely fold under the pressure Bush is under whether you believe that to be the truth or not. It’s not an easy job being either a savior or a scapegoat. Lol.

    Should we, the American people, be prosecuted for murder as well? The diamonds we buy most likely come from Africa, paid for by blood. Should we be responsible for that? Should we be tried for cruelty to children for the clothes we buy? Promoting unsafe working conditions? Perhaps the entire world should be imprisoned for making choices.

    Wait, that might offend all of your sensibilities. Choices aren’t easy to make on a personal level, much less a national level.

    Get over it, quit fucking crying, or do something about it.

  67. Michael Collins said on November 19th, 2008 at 1:52am #

    The people are doing something about it. They had their choice elected for the first time since 1996. That’s not an endorsement of Obama, it’ds an endorsement of an election where the results reflect the choice of the majority.

    As far as Bush goes, Bugliosi is as tough as they come. He’s angry at Bush for lying us into a war. The basis of the war was fabrications. How much more serious does it have to get than that to justify legal action.

    Bush wasn’t compelled to run for president. He wasn’t compelled to lie about Iraq. He wasn’t compelled to enrich his cronies while the nation suffered. He wasn’t compelled to ruin the nation’s reputation around the world. He wasn’t compelled to conduct an invasion that he was warned would cause extreme civil discord and that did result in the deaths of 1.2 million Iraqi civilians as a result as his ignorance.

    Doing something about it is proving that no man is above the law.

    Deal with it.

  68. bozhidar bob balkas said on November 19th, 2008 at 11:17am #

    well, all wars may have been waged on ‘promises’ (beware of silent implications), perceptions, reasons, ‘predictions’, expectations.
    all ‘predictions’, ‘promises’, and reasons i evaluate as lies.
    in other words, future is not ours to see. so, why predict/promise?
    but we know why warmongers do that. it seems to me, people accept lies from their gov’ts.
    this is a panhuman trait not just american. the difference btwn amers and let’s say, iraqis, iranians is the fact that the iraq-iran war was fought on their respective soils.
    amers, on the other hand, r thousands of miles removed from war zones. thus, wars r trifles to an estimated 98% of amers.
    the differnce is also in the fact that in US oneparty wages wars; thus, near 100% politico-clerico-media support for all US wars and not just the wars against afgh’n and iraq.
    the diff is also that US always had a oneperty system of which education, disinformation, media, entertaiment r integral parts of the oneparty governance.
    uncle sam always knew that US wld not grow in size or strength if it had more than one party.
    he also realized that he must protect his own war criminals; thus no their prosecution in US let alone by aliens.
    and that cld be accomplished only with a monolithic ruling class.
    in serbia w. several parties, milosevic had to go. if serbia had oneparty governance, milosevic wld never have faced any domestic or alien court.