Truth in Stuttgart

Three months ago, I briefly participated in a Palestinian solidarity conference in Stuttgart. The event was dedicated to the ‘One State Solution’. As it happened, I was touring in Germany at the time, and thus accepted an invitation by the organiser to say a few words.

Being primarily an artist, rather than a politician or an activist, I am committed to truth and beauty rather than a party-line or any given ideological doctrine. Yet, without my intending to do so, and in just a few sentences – I managed to cross every possible ‘red line’, and I bought myself a few more enemies.

In my speech, I said that as much as ‘universalism’ is a beautiful idea, it is incompatible with Jewish culture, since Jewish culture is tribally oriented. I also told the German Palestinian supporters that as much as ‘peace’ is a beautiful concept, associated as it is with harmony and reconciliation, Shalom, the Hebrew word for peace, is actually interpreted by Israelis as ‘security for the Jews’.

I thought that the supporters of the ‘One State Solution’ should be aware of the complexities that lie ahead.

I also managed to infuriate some, by suggesting that I was against the comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany. Indeed, I believe that from certain ideological perspective, Israel is actually far worse than Nazi Germany, for unlike Nazi Germany, Israel is a democracy and that implies that Israeli citizens are complicit in Israeli atrocities.

Needless to say, a few of the attendants of the conference were angry with me. Such ideas are hardly expressed on German soil. Some of the Jewish activists, and at least one Marxist, demanded that I should be removed from the protocol.

I was obviously sad about it — I believed that those who advocated the ‘One State solution’ should be able to support intellectual pluralism — But it turns out that a few of those who promote democracy in Palestine would be better advised to first confront their own Stalinist tendencies.

Later, I learned that one legendary German Jewish activist and speaker at the conference stood by me. Evelyn Hecht-Galinski firmly announced that if I was to be removed from the protocol, then she also wanted to be removed. She argued in my defense that I was telling the truth about both Jewish and Israeli culture.

In spite of relentless Jewish pressure, a video of my presentation was later uploaded to youtube and has now been seen by many.

Two days ago I learned that Arbeiterfotografie, (the group who documented the conference) transcribed my talk and considered it “most convincing and humane”. They thought that it should be ‘disseminated widely’ (read below).

I guess that truth cannot be suppressed anymore — not even in Germany. If Israel defines itself as a Jewish State, then surely, it is our duty to question what Jewishness is all about.

I believe that solidarity with Palestine becomes a more meaningful event once we are brave enough to stand for the truth. Rather than fit ourselves into any given consensus or discourse, our duty is to present an alternative reality, whilst aiming at ethics and beauty.

For Justice to prevail, truth must be told.

Arbeiterfotografie: What did Gilad Atzmon actually say in Stuttgart?

One of the most essential phrases at the very beginning of Gilad Atzmon’s welcome address at the Stuttgart conference is certainly the following: “We all agree upon ‘ONE state’, and we all agree that this is most probably the only ethical and universal approach to the crisis. We all agree that this is the right road to peace.” Gilad Atzmon explains that universality and peace, in the sense of reconciliation, are alien to the Jewish – and especially Israeli – culture. He states that Jewish culture is tribe-oriented. And that when Israelis use the word ‘shalom’, they do not mean peace but security for the Jews. He believes that it is crucial to apply maximum pressure on Israel through « Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions » (BDS).

Although it may be fair to say that statements of this nature are bound to cause strong reactions amongst the proponents of racist and zionist ideologies, it is barely comprehensible that this should be the case within the Palestine Solidarity movement.

It is the following passage in particular that has been quoted out of context: “I think Israel is much worse than Nazi Germany. Why? Israel is a democracy. Nazi Germany was not a democracy. The Reichstag was dissolved, the Germans have no responsibility for actions and crimes committed by the Nazis. Israel is a democracy; hence every citizen is complicit. Every citizen is complicit, as am I, as a British citizen, in the crimes committed in Iraq.”

The above passage has served to disqualify Gilad Atzmon and reject a discussion with him. Is this justified? The answer to this question becomes apparent as soon as we reflect on the context these phrases were spoken in. The passage that has been taken out of context is part of a digression in which Gilad explains why he dislikes comparisons – comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany, and comparisons between Israel and South Africa. By reducing his words to the passage in question, his statement is deprived of its original intent and meaning. [See complete interpolation below].

Gilad Atzmon’s most fundamental concern, however, is to bring understanding to the Israelis with regard to an idea that he describes as follows: “But then suddenly a very important concept became clear to me. And it is the only one we can make the Israelis understand. It is very simple [interpolation, see below]. I believe the Israelis’ fear and hysteria regarding the delegitimisation of Israel has to do with the fact that they may be beginning to understand that sooner or later they will be living together with the Palestinians … This is also my main message to you today. It is the Israelis who are now prisoners – prisoners of future Palestinian benevolence. No one can absolve the Israelis from their deeds and their crimes – neither the British, the French, nor the Germans. The only people who will ever be able to forgive them are the Palestinians. In order to receive forgiveness, the Israelis must start thinking NOW. [They must start thinking:] Destiny has condemned us to live in this society. It is an irrevocable process. There will be ONE state, and we must make sure they understand this – and understand that everything they do from now on will be subject tp Palestinian benevolence. We must make this point clear to them.”

His train of thought is unusual, but it is by no means deserving of condemnation.

It is a most convincing and humane idea, and we should support and disseminate it widely. We should no longer play along in the game that consists in reversing the roles of the robbers and robbed, the oppressors and oppressed, the terrorists and terrorised. We must recognise who has systematically committed crimes against whom over the decades. And in this context we must acknowledge Gilad Atzmon’s idea: the situation can no longer go on in this way. Each and every additional crime committed by Israel against the Palestinians plants hatred towards this state and makes reconciliation even more remote. This cannot be what we want, especially if we are part of a Christian society.

The intellectual digression in full [in italics]: “We have already heard about the comparison between Israelis – Israel and Nazi Germany. I am not fond of this comparison, as I believe Israel is far worse than Nazi Germany. Why? Simply because Israel is a democracy. Nazi Germany was not a democracy. The Reichstag was dissolved, the Germans were in no way responsible for the actions committed by the Nazis – apart from those who directly committed a crime or were politically responsible. Israel, by contrast, is a democracy.

Hence every citizen is complicit, as am I, as a British citizen, in the crime currently being committed in Iraq. Obviously, I am not as responsible as Tony Blair or Lord Goldsmith, or perhaps Lord Levy (his no. 1 fundraiser). As for the comparison between Israel and South Africa …. there were massacres [in South Africa] – but there was no genocide, no genocidal politics against blacks. This [however ] is what is taking place in Israel. We all witnessed what happened in Gaza in 2008/2009. At any rate, I do not care for comparisons, yet ….”

These are reflective asides. They are thought-provoking but by no means justify a rejection of communication, the more so as they focus on a concept that could hardly be more humane.

  • Transcript — lightly edited to make it readable.
  • Gilad Atzmon, now living in London, was born in Israel and served in the Israeli military. He is the author of The Wandering Who and one of the most accomplished jazz saxophonists in Europe. He can be reached at: atz@onetel.net.uk. Read other articles by Gilad, or visit Gilad's website.

    25 comments on this article so far ...

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    1. David Silver said on February 19th, 2011 at 9:33am #

      I am in solidarity with the Palestinian struggle and believe in a One State solution.
      Altzmon says he is only guided by Truth and Beauty and not a Party line
      OR ANY GIVEN IDEOLOGY. WHAT DISINGENUOUS CRAP Atzman’s underpinning ideology may be described by some left trends that go by names such as neo-Marxist, New Left and or Social Democratic that have at least one ting in common: Anti-communism in a Left Disguise. How do I come to that conclusion? By the sentence that some pro-Palestinian activists “should confront their own Stalinist tendencies.”

    2. bozh said on February 19th, 2011 at 10:34am #

      i wld start my evaluation of israeli and pal’n traits from the fact that all interpersonal, intrapersonal, interethnic, intereligious conflicts; other maladjustments; warfare, exploitation, torture, jailings, threats of warfare. sanctions, blockades, etc., are caused by personal supremacism.
      we may call this also americanism, nazism, fascism, sybaritism, zionism.
      all of these undesirable phenomena have one cause not two+.

      gilad does not start his evaluation from this fact; thus, cannot proffer us an elucidation.

      being ethnocentric [maybe jews are more so than other voelken] at this stage of ethnic development is not a wrong. to gilad, it is a wrong and stands, he thinks i think, in the way to a peace between ‘jews’ and torahic-talmudic jews on one side and pal’ns and islamo-pal’ns on the other.

      i do not expect that a peace between diff religious supremacisms wld break out even in a century let alone in yrs.
      with no peace between such thinkers, no peace between even one ‘jew’ and one muslim.
      speaking of self, i cld never live in peace with any muslim or ‘jew’. if i spurn or show no respect for a single muslim or ‘jew’, i cannot enjoy peace.
      and sooner or later this ends in bloodshed.

      and i wld never obey dead jesus, mohammed, or qoran, bible, or talmud. there is no peace on earth with such thinkers! tnx

    3. hayate said on February 19th, 2011 at 12:34pm #

      Looks like Atzmon encountered the zio-co-opters of Germany. Germany has its share of these duplicitous saboteurs just like most other countries. There is a crowd of Jewish chauvinistic, israeli loyalists on the sly is in every movement. The scads at ziofascism, inc. make sure every group and movement is heavily infiltrated by these critters. They usually try and take over the org or movement and then neutralise it through sending it off into ineffective vectors and by attacking those who are effective in opposing ziofascism, inc.

      What is described about Atzmon’s encounter with the ziofascist co-opters sounds very much like what Blankfort has described on a number of occasions working with the Palestinian Solidarity movement in the usa where zionists (stealth and open) worked heavily to neutralise effective actions and policies.

    4. hayate said on February 19th, 2011 at 12:42pm #

      “Some of the Jewish activists, and at least one Marxist, demanded that I should be removed from the protocol.”

      I should add that once these ziofascists break cover and advocate zionist policy, like the crud above, they should be exposed, disempowered and isolated from the org/movement and treated as the disrupting ziofascist agents provocateurs which they are.

    5. Deadbeat said on February 19th, 2011 at 8:28pm #

      David Silver writes …

      Atzman’s underpinning ideology may be described by some left trends that go by names such as neo-Marxist, New Left and or Social Democratic that have at least one ting in common: Anti-communism in a Left Disguise.

      I don’t see it that way. I see Atzmon offering some needed critiques of the Left. Unfortunately too many leftists want to ignore Zionism and Atzmon goes even further questioning Judaism itself. Most Leftists only want to frame issue solely on the grounds of economic classes and ignore racism as having its own well-defined agenda. In other words, racism using Capitalism to further its supremacist goals as oppose to Capitalist using racism to maintain class division.

      At best, Leftists failure to properly analyze racism is a major reason why Zionism has gone unchallenged. At worst the Left is corrupted by Zionism. Which from Atzmon point of view is quite natural since Jewish voices tend to dominate the Left.

      There is a tendency to separate Zionism from Judaism and to believe that Zionism has corrupted Judaism. But Atzmon seems to be saying that there really is no separation between Judaism and Zionism therefore there is no corruption.

      Regardless, Atzmon critique of the Left is certainly warranted.

    6. Observer said on February 20th, 2011 at 3:20am #

      Fantastic article — very, very well written, beautifully expressed, very clear, very lucid and with a strong humanist focus.

      It is about time that more people on the I/P circuit start to do away with all that left wing gate keeper nonsense that holds the movement — and holds people — back. Ask a Palestinian what he thinks of Marx, Trotsky or Lenin, and they’ll laugh at you. Ask them what they think of the ‘right wing’ and they’ll laugh at you too.

      Wake up — ‘leftism’ ( like the ‘right’ ) is all near complete nonsense, all redundant — take what is good from these constructs, them leave them behind. The ‘left’ and the ‘right’ wing leaders do not care about you or me anyway.

      All illusions, manifesting in an empty world.

      It is way way past time we drop these illusory media led gatekeeper stances of ‘left’ and ‘right’ wing. Clearly, Atzmon has already done so, and so should we.

    7. kalidasa said on February 20th, 2011 at 8:35am #

      It was apparent to me forty years ago that Zionism is a symptom of Judaism.

      There ARE other symptoms as well.

      And they ain’t pretty.

    8. bozh said on February 20th, 2011 at 10:28am #

      labeling a personal or group thinking=’explaining-defining’.
      and every ‘explanation’ just leads to an ‘explanation’ of the first one.
      second ‘explanation’ evokes a third; third calls for a fourth, and on forever.
      this type of thinking occludes an agreement or conclusion about what to do.

      i think that clerico-noble class of life are onto this fact.

      and when we add to this fact the fact that panhuman thinking is split asunder into ideologies such as communist, socialist, democratic, american, judaic, catholic, islamic, chomskyite, trotzkyite, fascist, et al, but w.o. being aware that one is splitting asunder what cannot be split in pieces, we realize enormity of our problems arising from such thinking.

      so, my suggestion is we stop ‘defining’, ‘explaining’, and the like; instead, just describe what traits a label represents. tnx

    9. Rehmat said on February 20th, 2011 at 5:55pm #

      Gilad Atzmon has now gone beyond the “One State Solution”. Not long ago he wrote:

      “Considering the latest Israeli barbarian military operations, bearing in mind the disastrous starvation in Gaza, learning about the serious threat to world peace imposed by repeated nuclear threats made by Israel against its neighboring States and Iran in particular, we should move the discourse one step further. We better look at the Helen Thomas’ solution.”

      Palestine – The Third Option
      http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/06/18/palestine-the-third-option/

    10. hayate said on February 20th, 2011 at 6:44pm #

      Deadbeat

      I as going to comment on silver’s post, but decided against it since this Atzmon piece didn’t really get into left-right politics. But since you wrote about it now, I changed my mind. Unfortunately, the previously posted article from Atzmon didn’t allow comments, since what we are discussing here pertains much more to that piece than the current one. Since the subject has been brought up, I’ll post my thoughts on that previous Atzmon article regarding Atzmon’s writing about the left.

      From what I’ve read about his past, I don’t think Atzmon was ever on the left. He reminds me a lot of libertarians in his political views. His views of the left seem to be from someone who has never been inside the left, but has observed it as an outsider and recipient of criticism from certain people claiming to be left. He does not seem to realise that zionists pretending to be left, and who are the loudest, most promoted mouths, who claim to speak for the left, have essentially co-opted the left in ziofascism, inc. interests, and that these people are in no way representative of the real left, which is not zionist, and could never be zionist.

      His views are understandable, given where he lives and the sort of criticism directed towards him. In the UK, the “left” is very heavily infiltrated and dominated by Jewish chauvinists, both zionist and anti-zionist. The infiltration is so total in the UK, one can see how the “left” in the UK would be associated with zionist interests. Atzmon gets a lot flak from these sorts, as anyone critical of Judaism or zionism gets in the UK. I don’t think he realises how little of the real left is left in the UK, because of this zionist infiltration. He does not seem to differentiate between the real non-zionist left and the zionist fakes. Someone who is part of the left, and has seen how these ziofascist toadies act from the inside, can tell the difference fairly easily without much effort.

      As I wrote, given where he is, I can see where he is coming from, having experienced the same sort of shite, from the same sort of duplicitous zionists pretending to be left. On the guardian’s talkboard, I was a “darling of the left” so long as I didn’t criticise zionism or israel. Once I crossed that threshold, I “became this crazy anti-semite” whom anything was fair game to use against, including multiple invasions of my personal life, always with a pretense of friendship behind them, by the so-called leftists at guardian. It didn’t take long to realise the guardian’s talkboard is essentially there for data mining purposes for israel’s sayanim and agents. As long as one conflates zionist/israeli criminality as subservient to that of the usa, you are OK, cross the “Petras line”, and you become “the enemy”. Literally.

      As an example of how these things operate: 2-3 years back I posted something by benny morris, showing how even the so-called “enlightened” israeli establishment was in the apartheid gutter, and the guy who plays leader there of the anti-zionist “left”, at the time nicked “brightdayofsummer”, now “germinal”, tried to claim morris’ views were an obscure minority and what he writes is not worth discussing (he brought along some tory porno fanatic – literally – named “captainlockheed” to help press that absurd point). I pointed out they were full of shite and was banned from the site within a few days. No doubt this gatekeeper was responsible. A few weeks later, the nyt featured an editorial by this “obscure no-account, morris”. What happened was, not being able dispute the disgusting views of morris documented, the sayanim tried to pretend they were not relevant to current israeli views, that he was a fringe element nobody listened to. When that was shown to be bogus, the sayanim then had the threatening poster removed from the site. That is an example of how these critters operate. When they cant disprove or drown out the anti-zionist, they use whatever means they can to have the person repressed and their views not seen.

      Atzmon, being in the UK, must have experienced “the left” in a similar manner, and a lot more and intensely. The sorts attacking him from “the left” there are the same sorts I just described. The so-called anti-zionist “left”, in the guise of “jews sans frontiers” and the greenstein blog, attacks him regularly and is very obsessed about what he says. It’s the usual Jewish zionist gatekeeper spiel, slander the real opposition and pretend one is the opposition instead. Then work to neutralise that opposition.

      While Atzmon’s criticism of the left is useful, it should really be seen as criticism of the zionist co-opted “left”, something that which is not leftwing at all, but actually almost entirely opposite of the real left, and is in fact, ziofascist. Personally, I think where Atzmon really shines is in describing israelis, zionism and Judaism. This, he obviously has a lot of experience as an “insider”, and speaks from personal knowledge. The article above is a good example.

    11. Deadbeat said on February 21st, 2011 at 1:55am #

      hayate writes …

      While Atzmon’s criticism of the left is useful, it should really be seen as criticism of the zionist co-opted “left”, something that which is not leftwing at all, but actually almost entirely opposite of the real left, and is in fact, ziofascist.

      Thanks for all of that background and I’ll keep that in mind for the future regarding Atzmon. But you are right. What you call “ziofacist” is what passes as the “Left” in the U.S. as well. It is definitely not the Left that adheres to principles of justice, fairness, equality, truth and solidarity.

    12. mary said on February 21st, 2011 at 2:12am #

      How about this? Fascism is alive and well in the EU/Western Europe.

      Germany sent five undercover police officers to G8 protests

      …The officers took orders from the UK’s National Public Order Intelligence Unit (NPOIU), the secretive police division that employed Mark Kennedy to spy on activists across Europe, said Jörg Ziercke, head of Germany’s federal police.

      …Both the Guardian and Spiegel have already reported that Ziercke told German MPs that the agent committed at least two crimes, but the cases against him were dropped at the behest of German authorities who knew Kennedy’s true identity.

      Kennedy first broke the law during protests at Heiligendamm. He later committed arson during a demonstration in Berlin at which he set fire to containers, Der Spiegel said. The newspaper said Kennedy’s involvement in criminal activity raised concerns that he was working as an agent provocateur and not just an observer – and the fact that investigations into both crimes were shelved suggested police authorities wielded an unacceptable influence over the country’s judicial process.

      The revelations about Kennedy’s role in Germany come despite the government maintaining its refusal to publicly answer a series of parliamentary questions from opposition politicians.

      The Bundestag said “operational reasons” prevented them answering any questions about the country’s co-operation with undercover police officers from other countries, and Kennedy in particular.

      The Metropolitan police, which recently took control of the NPOIU, declined to comment.

      {http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/20/germany-undercover-police-g8-protests}

    13. MichaelKenny said on February 21st, 2011 at 7:00am #

      Mary: the Mark Kennedy story, which seems unrelated to Gilad Atzmon’s article, is old hat. He also operated in Ireland. Police infiltration of political groups in Europe is even older hat. It has been going on for centuries. The Kennedy story is news only because he blew the whistle on himself. The Stasi spied on just about everybody. So did the KGB. Both agencies are gone but the people they spied on are alive and well and living in now democratic Europe! Hysterical screaming about “fascism” seems excessive.

    14. Josie Michel-Bruening said on February 21st, 2011 at 7:22am #

      “Germany sent five undercover police officers to G8 protests”
      Yes, dear Mary, this and the following you write is the truth indeed.
      But if you are able to read German newspapers, I would like to recomment the “junge Welt”, there are such intrigues by our government covered more extensively and more believable, than in “Der Spiegel”, which is cultivating an image of critism, but as soon as it comes to Israel, Palestine or Cuba “Der Spiegel” is representing the ultra-right-wing of our society in Germany and that of those within the USA.

    15. mary said on February 21st, 2011 at 11:45am #

      You would say this wouldn’t you!! ‘Both agencies are gone but the people they spied on are alive and well and living in now democratic Europe! Hysterical screaming about “fascism” seems excessive.’

      Any remark that is the least bit critical of the fascist regime in the EU triggers an immediate response from you.

      An innocent man was killed in that protest, thousands were ‘kettled’ and many were injured. The presence of police ‘agents provocateurs’ was known of course as it is known that the Met send officers to Israel for training. The latter fact emerged during the inquest of Jean Charles de Menezes, the innocent Brazilian shot dead on the underground by the Met.

      btw I am neither ‘hysterical’ nor ‘screaming[.
      ~~~~~
      Thanks for your recommendation Josie.

    16. 3bancan said on February 22nd, 2011 at 3:14am #

      MichaelKenny said on February 21st, 2011 at 7:00am #

      “Both agencies are gone but the people they spied on are alive and well and living in now democratic Europe! Hysterical screaming about “fascism” seems excessive”

      Typical blather by a eurofascist…

    17. MichaelKenny said on February 22nd, 2011 at 7:25am #

      Mary: Please explain the relevance of your original post to Gilad Atzmon’s article. He tells us about a meeting he attended at which the one-state solution to the Israel problem was discussed. Your post concerned infiltration of activist groups by undercover police officers. What is the relevance to GA’s article? I notice a pattern. Every time a discussion takes a turn which is in some way “embarrassing” for Israel, you and several other bloggers (including 3bancan!) post a “diversion”, usually in the form of a download from another site (why not just a link?), which shifts the debate to an entirely different subject and which is frequently a standard Israel Lobby propaganda line.

    18. Maien said on February 22nd, 2011 at 9:05am #

      MichaelKenny, It has been established already that there are posters who add information for the purpose of education and for context. It took time for me to appreciate many of the rambling postings of bozh or Don Hawkins. I so enjoy the many .mini-history and other lessons provided by interesting and dedicated thinkers on this site. Authors and commentators.
      I am glad that you notice patterns Mr. Kenny. This is good. Perhaps some self-examination is due as your pattern has become boringly obvious. The way you distract is rather noisy. Does this form of distraction also come from some hasbara playbook? Could you consider becoming more of an intellectual adult and browse through..or skip information you do not consider valuable? Or was that an emotional adult? Really, Mr. Kenny, you have become somewhat tiresome.

    19. mary said on February 22nd, 2011 at 10:22am #

      Agree with that Maien. I have no intention of directly answering the implied smear of the questioner Mr Kenny. I answer to no one and especially not to him. On this site, the editors have the final say.

      I do not know what his agenda is but others including authors here have been similarly accused of being Israeli sympathisers or members of the Israeli lobby, a notion so ridiculous it is laughable. There could not be more assiduous champions and supporters of the Palestinians, under the heel of the Israelis for 63 years, than my friends and myself in word and deed.

      The medialens editors, also authors here, have had strange accusations made about their motives too.

      For the record, Gilad Atzmon wrote about the reception of his speech given in Stuttgart, +Germany+. I wrote about the now fascist Metropolitan Police (eg their handling of protests) and their outrageous inclusion of officers from Merkel’s fascist +German+ state to police a British crowd. It’s that simple.

      I n0w have a post about the father of the young Turkish American student killed by the Israelis on the Mavi Marmara. He is bravely going to the US to ask for an inquiry. The link came from Free Gaza on one of whose boats, the Dignity, my brother was left for dead with 15 other souls by the Israeli navy who thrice rammed the boat in the dead of night 50 miles out in the Mediterranean Sea. The date was 30th December 2008, a few days into the Cast Lead massacre.

      {http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/focus-u-s-a/father-of-teen-killed-in-gaza-flotilla-raid-seeks-american-justice-1.345023}

      Professor Ahmet Doğan, whose 19-year-old son Furkan was killed aboard during the Israeli army raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla from Turkey in May, is in Washington in an attempt to convince American officials to open an investigation into the raid.

      /….

      PS I am posting that here because Gilad has written previously about the attack on the flotilla. Hope that’s OK with Mr K.

    20. Josie Michel-Bruening said on February 22nd, 2011 at 11:41am #

      Hi, Mary, I just found the following:
      “mary said on February 21st, 2011 at 11:45am #
      You would say this wouldn’t you!! ‘Both agencies are gone but the people they spied on are alive and well and living in now democratic Europe! Hysterical screaming about “fascism” seems excessive.’
      Any remark that is the least bit critical of the fascist regime in the EU triggers an immediate response from you.”

      Sorry, there seems to be a great misunderstanding.
      I did not want to critisize you because of your reminding at the agents provocateur installed by our “Bundesnachrichtendienst BND” the discovering of this evil happens repeatedly during the last decades, but not the discovering is annoying to me, but the happening causes indignation, of course, not only with me in Germany.
      What I wanted to say is, that “Der Spiegel” although, cultivating an image of criticism, tells not always the truth, more of the truth you can find for instance in “junge Welt”, a newspaper of the Left in Germany.

    21. hayate said on February 22nd, 2011 at 12:32pm #

      Josie Michel-Bruening

      I believe the bit you are quoting from Mary’s post was directed at kenny, not you.

    22. Josie Michel-Bruening said on February 22nd, 2011 at 1:28pm #

      o.k. hayate, may be your are right.

    23. mary said on February 22nd, 2011 at 3:12pm #

      Correct Hayate.

    24. mary said on February 22nd, 2011 at 3:13pm #

      Sorry if I confused you there Josie.

    25. Observer said on February 22nd, 2011 at 7:52pm #

      Atzmon is one of the best writers on ‘Dissident Voice.’