Once Again, Get the Hell Out!

Perhaps, there was once a time when most westerners could pretend that the US-led onslaught against the Afghan people was a good thing. Perhaps they convinced themselves that because the government of that country had allowed Osama Bin Laden to live in the mountains there that there was reason enough to attack his neighbors and destroy what remained of their nation. Perhaps, too, westerners (especially US citizens) believed that the true purpose of the US-led military mission in Afghanistan was to capture Bin Laden and destroy his terror network.

Yes, perhaps there was a time when the facade of justice and righteous revenge provided enough of a moral veneer to the US war in Afghanistan that even intelligent westerners could live with the death and destruction occurring in their name. However, that time is long past. The war has gone on for more than eight years without any sign of cessation. Indeed, since Barack Obama took up residence in the White House, the casualties in that war have spiked. There are at least 40,000 more US troops in the country since that date last January and another thirty or forty thousand more getting ready to go there. In addition, the number of mercenaries has similarly increased .The reasons provided for this escalation range from going after terrorists to creating a civil society. As I write, another offensive against Afghans is being prepared. It primary purpose is to install a governor appointed by the US-created government in Kabul. No matter what the reason, it is painfully clear that those of us expecting a truthful explanation for Washington’s presence in Afghanistan will not receive it from those who continue to send troops and weaponry over there. Nor will they receive it from those in Congress that continue to fund this lethal endeavor.

Yet, the antiwar movement–which should know better–remains virtually silent. A day of bi coastal demonstrations is planned for March 20, 2010, but otherwise there is not even a whisper of protest. Students go to classes while their generational cohorts in uniform face the prospect of death and killing. Antiwar organizations send out the occasional email or call for action, but there is no action. Congressmen and women ignore the letters and faxes constituents send them asking that they refuse to vote for the next war-funding legislation. Furthermore, these legislators refuse to make the connection between the destruction of the US economy and the trillion dollars spent to kill Afghans and Iraqis the past eight years. The media rarely covers the war except to promote the glory of the men and women sent to do America’s dirty work. There is no critical debate in the mainstream media. Opponents of Washington’s imperial program–rarely acknowledged in the mainstream media at any time–are now completely ignored.

Into this dismal void steps a crucial and accessible text by David Wildman and Phyllis Bennis titled Ending the US War in Afghanistan: A Primer. As up-to-date as a printed text could possibly be, this pocket-sized book is an unambiguous call to end the US-led war in Afghanistan. Written in a question and answer format, the authors cover the recent history of US involvement in that country from the late 1970s arming of the fundamentalist holy warriors in Washington’s proxy war against the Soviet Union to the recent faux elections in Fall 2009. The geopolitical meaning of Afghanistan in Washington’s strategy for empire is explained and so is the role of Unocal and pipelines. The writers challenge the myth that Washington’s occupation and war have made life better for the majority of Afghanistan’s female population. In fact, they challenge the assumption that this was ever even a goal of Washington when the war was begun.

The recent much-ballyhooed switch from a counterterrorism strategy to a counterinsurgency approach is discussed and dissected. The Pentagon’s plans to provide humanitarian aid is described in all of its deception. The supposed division of budgeted funds into eighty per cent reconstruction and twenty per cent military is shown to be a fraud. The authors write that after all is said and done, the percentages look more like this: 90-95% military and 5-10% actually going to reconstruction. Even then much of the reconstruction is military in nature. The idea that an occupying army that continues to bomb villages, kick in the doors of people’s homes, and arrest their sons and husbands will ever win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people is soundly rejected in these pages.

Furthermore, it is the authors’ contention that there will never be real progress toward a genuine peace in Afghanistan until the US and other members of the International Security Armed Force (ISAF) withdraw their forces. Those interested in organizing to end this war (and the occupation of Iraq) should pay special attention to the final forty pages of Ending the US War in Afghanistan: A Primer. These pages are where the shortcomings of the antiwar movement are discussed. Primary amongst these failings was the anti-Bush focus of the antiwar movement of 2002-2008. Another false move was the assumption by way too many of those who protested Bush’s war that the Empire’s policy would change under Barack Obama. Bennis and Wildman write that the dynamics between the antiwar forces and the current administration might be slightly different, which could increase the movement’s ability to affect policy. Of course, we will never know this unless we create a movement that is as larger or larger than the aforementioned one. Perhaps the key phrase in this section is this: “the moment Congress perceives that the political cost of funding the war has risen above the (political) cost of ending the war, they will do what has become politically expedient–and cutting the war funding will become an urgent political necessity.” To make this happen is a huge task, but it is the one we must undertake.

Ron Jacobs is the author of The Way The Wind Blew: A History of the Weather Underground and Tripping Through the American Night, and the novels Short Order Frame Up and The Co-Conspirator's Tale. His third novel All the Sinners, Saints is a companion to the previous two and was published early in 2013. Read other articles by Ron.

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  1. Rehmat said on February 13th, 2010 at 10:13am #

    There is more to Afghanistan’s occupation than meet the eyes. Under Reza Shah dynasty, Iran played the transit role for opium produced in Afghanistan, India and some part of Iran and Turkey. The drug smugglers were under the protection of Shah’s Mossad-CIA trained special force, SWAK. In early 1980s, Imam Khomeini banned the cultivation of poppy and drug in Iran. Later-on USSR occupied Afghanistan and the conbined result was that drug barrons, working for the Jewish-controlled world drug empire – had to shift their capital and infrastructure to Israel and Afghanistan’s Helmand Province – which is currently controlled by British troops – has made them the best protection drug-money can buy – with an impressive 57% of the total annual opium production countrywide. But it was not the only reason why Washington needed to replace religious leadership of Mullah Omar with a pro-US secularist ruler in Kabul. The openly touted Caspian Sea oil exploitation was also to benefit Israel to a great extent. Alexander Machkevitch, born and raised in Kyrgyzstan. He is a very close friend of country’s dictator Nursultan Nazarbyev and member of many Jewish lobby groups working for Israel’s interests in Central Asia and Africa. He owns the lion-share of oil industry in the country. Machkevitch is reported to be worth US$5 billion – making him the richest Israeli-citizen outside Israel – ignoring the fact that Bernard Madoff stashed most of his US$50 billion loot in Israeli banks.

    Afghanistan – West’s Drugstore
    http://rehmat1.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/afghanistan-wests-drugstore/

  2. bozh said on February 13th, 2010 at 11:39am #

    No, US will never tell u why it is in afgh’n. But since i know of no war that hasn’t been waged for land, it is very safe to postulate that this war is also ab acquisition of land.
    Natch, every war ever waged was waged solely on the basis of rationalization; i.e., giving reasons for agressions.
    Once one starts giving reasons for an invasion, the process, in theory, can go on forever and the number of reasons given limited only by human limitations of inventiveness.

    The lands conquered can be only gotten back by war. Pashtuns have zero chance to do that; their military resistance thus useless even if it goes on for decades.

    Generally speaking, asocialists [fascists] eventually reach an agreement. That’s what nato had already but partially achieved; only pashtuns and/or taliban are still offside.

    Pal’n asocialists, hamas and fatah, have also reached some kind of understandings with other fascists as well.
    Neither taliban nor pal’n leaderships are building an idyllic society. An egalitarian or much egalitarian society cannot ever be defeated, especially if it wld be idyllicly structured and gave up on militarism.
    But these leaderships being fascistic, only care ab selfglory, high style of living, prestige, power.

    All fascists: jordanian, egyptian, emiratic, indian, pakistani, georgian, israeli, canadian, et al are now of more or less of one mind.
    Resisting militarily such enorm power, appears not only useless but actually hurts resistors’ respective just causes.
    The only power pal’ns and pashtuns have is in people. So, i say live and multiply and embed in children’s brains the hatred-fury for the occupiers. tnx

  3. lichen said on February 13th, 2010 at 4:08pm #

    I find it richly ironic that a certain pool of writers wish to spend all their time criticizing and insulting the anti-war movement and young people, but apparently can’t find time outside of their required word count to build the activist organizations that could supposedly succeed.

    America’s entire military empire, from the bases to the wars to the occupations, secret prisons, to the CIA, covert operations, threats and nuclear arsenal all need to be brought down; the military itself needs to go.

  4. Ron Jacobs said on February 13th, 2010 at 8:06pm #

    i agree with lichen. let’s get out there and organize….

  5. Jonas Rand said on February 13th, 2010 at 8:14pm #

    The anti-war movement now, I believe, is largely against the policies of President Obama just as much as they were with President G.W. Bush’s policies. However, the problem was that when Obama began running for president, many people began fawning over him on the Left, which I felt was quite wrong to accept. While some leftists still support Barack Obama’s policies, they mostly do so because they have not been paying attention to Obama’s policies and moves with regard to the War in Afghanistan, and support Obama because he feigns a desire to reverse Bush’s policies. This promise has not been upheld, at least with Guantanamo; though he never did say he would stop wars waged by this country. He did what a politricks salesman usually does: used careful manipulation of words to appease all sides, but never actually promising that he will do something. Obama is all talk, no action, and while his expectations of the Left to accept his rhetoric as gospel succeeded at first, they did not for long.

    More people are beginning to question President Obama and his vicious policies in Afghanistan, his attempts to extend that war into Pakistan, and his shifty games with spy operations in Yemen, realizing that they are not much better, if at all, than Bush’s tricks. Launched from my home state of Nevada, under 100 miles north of where I live, the drone attacks are murder robots that literally destroy the lives of thousands of innocent women, children, and impoverished Pashtun tribesmen. The injustice of war must come to an end, and only democracy can accomplish the goal. What is practiced in the White House is not democracy; if it were, both wars would have long been over by now, if they ever would have occurred.

  6. Jonas Rand said on February 13th, 2010 at 8:18pm #

    And yes, lichen is correct. All of the torture chambers (not just Bagram and Guantanamo), the practice of “rendition”, and the military itself are harmful to human beings worldwide.

  7. Deadbeat said on February 13th, 2010 at 10:41pm #

    lichen writes …

    I find it richly ironic that a certain pool of writers wish to spend all their time criticizing and insulting the anti-war movement and young people, but apparently can’t find time outside of their required word count to build the activist organizations that could supposedly succeed.

    ron writes …

    Into this dismal void steps a crucial and accessible text by David Wildman and Phyllis Bennis titled Ending the US War in Afghanistan: A Primer. As up-to-date as a printed text could possibly be, this pocket-sized book is an unambiguous call to end the US-led war in Afghanistan. … The geopolitical meaning of Afghanistan in Washington’s strategy for empire is explained and so is the role of Unocal and pipelines. … In fact, they challenge the assumption that this was ever even a goal of Washington when the war was begun.

    Rahmet writes …
    The openly touted Caspian Sea oil exploitation was also to benefit Israel to a great extent.

    Let’s put these observation into perspective.

    Before there is a reconstitution of the anti-war movement we need to understand why the anti-war movement of 2003-2004 collapsed. Why is that important? Because if we do understand the past the past is doomed to be repeated. Not since perhaps the anti-apartheid movement had people from all walks of live got in motion. Rather than keeping those people in motion, people who Noam Chomsky described as the “new superpower”, the Left sabotaged and DEMOBILIZED that very movement. Unless this factor is understood any renewed movement will end in defeat.

    Why did the Left demobilize? We’ll notice who has returned to the scene of the crime — Phyllis Bennis who Ron Jacobs is now promoting with the same “War for Oil” scenario. The same Phyllis Bennis of the Institute for Policy Studies (IPS) who along with her United for Peace & Justice (UFPJ) cadres got squeamish when perspectives in the movement like that of Rehmat about Zionist influence was being raised. Phyllis Bennis and many in her sphere are Zionism deniers (as well as liars) when it come to dealing with the reality of Zionism’s influence on U.S. Foreign Policy and the Israel lobby control of Congress and the Presidency. Bennis and her Chomskyite companions deceive the public by placing the blame on “imperialism” and the “oil companies” and “corporations” in order to prevent any real confrontation of Zionism.

    This desire to shift the focus away from Zionism is why I believe the late Howard Zinn rallied for the Anybody But Bush (ABB) canard in 2004. Thus tainting his legacy as a radical since the real purpose of ABB was to demobilize the anti-war movement and to thwart scrutiny of the influence of Zionism supported by these “left-wing” celebrities.

    The truth will not go away no matter how much Bennis dislikes it. However when push come to shove Bennis will sabotage any movement that tries to out Zionist influence. Therefore Bennis cannot be trusted and anything she is involved in requires a immense level of SCRUTINY.

    As I have said many times, movement only survive and thrive only when there is SOLIDARITY and solidarity only comes from TRUST. Seeing Bennis sabotage the anti-war movement with her “War for Oil” canard in order to cover for Zionism or to “protect” Jews means that she cannot be trusted and any such organizing will end in failure or worse — BETRAYAL.

    Building an anti-war movement with folks like Ms. Bennis is just about as absurd as building a movement with the Tea Partyers.

  8. Deadbeat said on February 13th, 2010 at 11:04pm #

    Here’s the remarks of Jeffrey Blankfort with references to Phyllis Bennis

    Jeffrey Blankfort: The mistake is that Noam Chomsky, as I described in an article, is a human tsunami. He has written so many books, and has made so many speeches, written so many articles that the works of legitimate scholars who contradict him, I mean, genuine scholars, which he is not, in my opinion, are overwhelmed by the tsunami.

    He is the most widely quoted person in the universe that’s still alive. He makes statements that he does not have to back up with fact. He makes statements in a way that it sounds like he’s talking about the day of the week. And who’s going to argue with that? If he says that it’s Tuesday and it’s Tuesday, you say, well, of course, it’s Tuesday. But much of what he says cannot be backed up in fact, and the examples that he uses, some of them are so ancient that if he was submitting a paper to a professor, the paper would be returned for more up to date, more substantial references.
    As a matter of fact, there was an article on Counterpunch by someone from Harvard, who complained that Chomsky’s books were not being reviewed by serious, scholarly journals. And I wrote this guy back and said, Chomsky’s very lucky because nobody who writes thirty books in thirty years would be considered a serious scholar. A serious book requires a lot of time and research, and Chomsky hasn’t done that. And when I decided to do an article called “Damage Control: Noam Chomsky and the Israeli/Palestinian conflict,” I didn’t realize what a snake pit it is when you’re trying to investigate what Chomsky has written because it’s more self-referential than a good scholarly work should be. So what happens is that you’re reading in a book of his, and you go back to a footnote, it will often refer to another book he’s written.

    So I now have a whole shelf of books by Chomsky, which essentially say the same thing: US imperialism bad, and it’s all the fault of certain governmental elites.

    Now one of the criticisms I made of him, and made also by Israel Shahak, the late Israeli Holocaust survivor, and extreme critic of Israel, Zionism, Judaism, and the PLO, is that Chomsky focuses too much on the Executive while negating the role that Congress plays, which is what we have to deal with on a local level. If it’s only the executive elite, and these elites are doing something in Washington, we, in California, are outside of Washington and essentially helpless. I wrote back in ’91, in an exchange I had with Chomsky in the old National Guardian, that Chomsky makes us spectators when history demands we be participants.

    Now the other thing about Chomsky, and I love this what Shahak wrote, “Chomsky acts as if American foreign policy was put in a computer about 1944 and has been acting on a printout ever since.” Shahak wrote that American policy may be evil, but it’s far more complex than Chomsky treats it as such. This kind of simplistic thinking may be good for people looking for easy answers, wrote Shahak, but not for serious scholars.

    The problem is one of American culture. Quite apart from the Left, we are not a society of serious scholars. We’ve a short story culture. We want to be entertained and really deep scholarship and research is antithetical to our general culture as Americans, apart from the Left. It’s the way we developed. You can find a book by a European writer that may be a half inch thick, that will take you longer to read than a book by an American scholar that’s two inches thick because it makes you think. And what you should be thinking about as you’re reading should provoke you. You should be provoked to think new thoughts, to pause and think about what the writer is writing, and not accept what the writer is writing as gospel.

    And what’s happened with Chomsky is that he has become gospel. What happens if you criticize Chomsky, is that people’s eyes glaze over. People have taken to channeling him. They quote him without even referring to him, they have so internalized his positions. And that you go on various web sites, Marxists web sites, Trotskyist web sites, their line on the Israel Lobby is Chomsky’s line, that the Lobby is only powerful, only appears to be powerful when it’s lined up with American foreign policy, or when there’s some dispute among the elite. . Both before and after that exchange in the National Guardian, he subscribed to the Middle East Labor Bulletin, which I put out from 1988 to ’95, in which almost every issue had several pages about what the Lobby was doing in Congress, all backed with footnotes. After the Guardian exchange, a mutual friend, Ron Bleier, who happened to be one of the thousand Jewish children that Roosevelt allowed to come into the United States from Europe at the beginning of WWII, and who happened to be a very strong anti-Zionist (chuckles), wrote to Chomsky to ask him if he would debate me at the Socialist Scholars Conference in 1991 on the issue of the Lobby. And Chomsky wrote back declining, saying “it wouldn’t be useful.” Then I went to Joel Beinin, a professor at Stanford, who was a friend and said, “Will you debate me on the Lobby? “And Beinin ), taking Chomsky’s position, also mimicked him saying that “it wouldn’t be useful.”

    A few years ago, I had an exchange with Phyllis Bennis, who, taking the Chomsky position, said that Congress was not Israeli occupied territory, and an anti-Zionist Israeli living in Iceland, of all places, wrote to me asking what I wanted of Bennis? I said I want her to debate me. So he wrote to her, and she made a long reply, but also refused. She wrote that she and I basically agreed on most things, but “it wouldn’t be useful.”

    Wouldn’t be useful to whom? I think we know.

    After two years of trying, I did finally get a debate with Stephen Zunes on KPFA in May, 2005, during which he made some amazing statements. .This is the Stephen Zunes, whom Chomsky recognizes as a Middle East scholar. In the debate Zunes said, “I’ll be a Zionist as long as there is anti-Semitism,” that “Israel is an example of ‘global affirmative action’,” and he repeated this a year later on a panel in Marin County.

    This is somebody who has just been invited to speak to a Muslim audience in Hayward, and was given two hours on the air on a Muslim radio station in South Africa. It’s interesting that he, along with Chomsky, and other people on the Left, have been among those who have been first to criticize the paper of John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt on the influence of the Israel Lobby on US foreign policy.

    Now that paper is quite interesting because even though there have been some books written about the Lobby, and other articles, Mearsheimer and Walt, who come from something called the “Realist School,” examined the lobby on the basis of whether US support for Israel benefits America’s national interest.

    People on the Left argue about that, but there is a “national interest,” which includes, for example, access to cheap oil to keep the economy going. I think most folks on the Left who drive a car appreciate cheap oil.

    There are problems around it, but, essentially, if you define the national interest as continuance of the US capitalist system, most Americans would accept that, irrespective of the global and domestic consequences.
    In any case, Mearsheimer and Walt said that the support of Israel is against US national interests, that the war in Iraq is against US national interests, something that I had actually maintained; in other words, in an article that I had written about support for Israel. Interestingly enough, you have the pit bulls of the Zionist Lobby, like Alan Dershowitz and others, the Neo-cons, attacking Mearsheimer and Walt, from the right, calling them anti-Semitic, identifying them with David Duke and the Nazis, and then you have the pundits of Left, attacking them as well, and coming to the defense of the Lobby, including Joseph Massad, a Palestinian at Columbia, who was attacked by the Lobby. They tried to run him off the campus, and yet he was the first person to defend it against Mearsheimer and Walt’s critique.

    And I wrote an article, going paragraph by paragraph, criticizing Massad, and then when somebody in Michigan asked Massad, when he was visiting there, “Would you debate Jeffrey Blankfort (I didn’t ask him to do that) .and Massad said no, and that I am anti-Semitic. Amazing, no?

    But then you have Chomsky dismissing Mearsheimer and Walt and Bennis, as well, but Zunes has been particularly aggressive in attacking them. And you have to ask why? Here when you see why the Palestinian support movement here is an utter failure . It has allowed a Lobby that’s powerful in San Francisco, is powerful in every major city, that intimidates politicians at every political level, and is allowed to do so, at least because nobody in the leadership role of the Left is talking about what it’s doing.

    Oh, they’ll have a picket line around the Israeli consulate, which is a total waste of time, but here we have the San Francisco Jewish Community Relations Council which threatened a picket line at the Rainbow Grocery if they boycotted Israeli goods, and Michael Lerner, the rabbi, said he would be on that picket line. Here’s a worker’s co-op in which the majority of workers, or certainly a substantial number, are Latino, Third World, and they were wanting to vote for this boycott, but after their web site was totally inundated and blocked by emails from Zionist Jews from around the world, and when they were told that if they had this boycott, the Jewish Community Relations Council would mount a boycott of Rainbow and put up a picket line. And when Michael Lerner went and spoke to them, and said essentially the same thing, they were cowed, afraid, and so they defeated the boycott by a three to one vote, and didn’t want to talk about it afterward.

    Two Jewish women who were active in the boycott. one from South Africa and one from here, told me that the Zionists “terrorized” them. The Jewish Community Relations Council terrorized the Rainbow workers. And I’ll tell you when I went there afterwards, after the vote, and tried to talk to some of the employees, they didn’t want to talk about it. Now they knew that even though it’s a worker’s co-op, if the store’s income went down, the last people to become part of the co-op would have to go. So here is Zionist racism manifested in San Francisco.

    And one of the things that gives the Lobby power, gives AIPAC its power, is the grassroots level. The JCRC here and in other towns gets away with this, they pay no political price. As the Left ignores what they are doing completely, they continue to do it. They continue to do it.

    How to stop it? How to change it? Firehoses to begin with. People need to challenge the so-called leadership of the Left. I don’t know what would replace it. This is the problem. I don’t see the material, what Zionists called “human material,” when they are referring to Middle Eastern Jews . . . they think of them as so much horseflesh . . . that’s the racism of Zionism towards dark skinned Arab Jews. But I’m looking here at trying to build a movement, and it’s very, very difficult under the circumstances. The Zionists have so infected and infiltrated the political life of America at every level, that it may not be salvageable without some other ingredient, some other events taking place that have yet to have taken place.

  9. Deadbeat said on February 13th, 2010 at 11:27pm #

    Another Blankfort comment referencing Bennis and her absurbities…

    Unlike other domestic lobbies, AIPAC has no serious challengers, the Arab-American organizations in Washington, the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) and the Arab-American Institute (AAI), being both too small and too timid to challenge even their shadow. What gives the lobby its strength, besides its significant organizational skills, is that its members are intimately tied to Jewish organizations, federations, and community relations councils across the country, as well as to labor union officials, and in recent years, to the growing Christian evangelical movement, which provides Israel with unprecedented support in what is generally right-wing Republican territory. It is noteworthy that it was only when the Christian Zionists joined the fray did Chomsky and his acolytes, most notably Professors Stephen Zunes and Joel Beinin, and the Institute for Public Studies’ Phyllis Bennis began to speak about “the lobby,” suggesting that the evangelicals were now its most powerful component. The subtext was that they were welcome because they took the attention away from AIPAC.

  10. Maien said on February 14th, 2010 at 12:00am #

    Thx Deadbeat. The information has been enlightening.

  11. Deadbeat said on February 14th, 2010 at 12:07am #

    Deadbeat writes …

    Because if we do understand the past the past is doomed to be repeated.

    This should have read …

    Because if we do not understand the past the past is doomed to be repeated.

  12. Ron Jacobs said on February 14th, 2010 at 7:47am #

    “Building and antiwar movement with Bennis is as pointless as building one with the tea-partiers–paraphrasing Deadbeat.

    Well, if we are going to exclude people before we begin to organize anyone, then what does this say? To me, it sounds like a movement organized within Deadbeat’s (and others) parameters would be one more interested in a certain ideological purity as opposed to ne that actually wants to get the US out of Afghanistan and Iraq. I understand that one of the reasons the anti-Iraq war movement failed in its primary goal was because of the Anybody But Bush nature of it. This was not a fault of the grassroots as much as it was a fault of the leadership. I also understand that people like Bennis were part of this element of the leadership/spokespeople. At the same time, I have read Ms. Bennis’ book from cover to cover and consider it a good resource for organizers and others interested in getting the US out. Some of the lessons I have learned from every movement I have been involved in is that the demands must be clear and unequivocal; that the broadest base of people must unite around these principles; that all avenues of protest must be explored, employed and encouraged–from letter writing and lobbying to street protest and direct action (and not just civil direct action either); that the Democrats/liberals must be kept on a leash; that sometimes we have to work with people we don’t necessarily like or who have worldviews we disagree with; and that it is possible to do this while remaining true to one’s own beliefs.
    This isn’t always easy but it is necessary to win.
    Here’s a little anecdote. In 1969 members of the newly formed Weatherman organization (who at the time were most of the national office of the SDS) went to Cuba to meet with members of the Vietnamese NLF and the northern Vietnamese government. One of the discussions was how the antiwar movement could best help the Vietnamese. They SDS members were told: keep your demands simple, just demand an end to the war now and a US withdrawal. By the time the SDS members returned to the US, the student antiwar movement was fracturing even further in part because of the Weatherman, who were alienating many elements of the movement by their insistence on ideological purity. Now I know there were many other elements at play in 1969 that hindered the antiwar movement, but the fact that the liberals wouldn’t work with the radicals and the ultra-radicals wouldn’t work with anyone but the very few certainly made it easier for the White House and Pentagon to carry that war on for another six years.
    My point is that we should be aware of our differences but not make them so important that we refuse to work with those with whom we disagree. That only plays into the hands of those who want this war to go on as long as they can make money and political hay from it.

  13. rosemarie jackowski said on February 14th, 2010 at 10:20am #

    On March 20, 2003 there were world-wide protests. Thousands were arrested in the US for peacefully opposing “Shock and Awe”. I was one of those arrested. In hindsight, I am not sure that the protests accomplished anything. The US is still involved in one of the longest wars in history. Most people forget that we started bombing Iraq in 1991. Many of us have been protesting since 1991. The only change is that now the bombing can be done in the safety of US home bases via drones.

    Maybe it is time to figure out a new strategy that does not include peaceful protest.

  14. bozh said on February 14th, 2010 at 10:51am #

    Rosemarie, yes,
    Early ’03 I have said at StopWar.ca that no protest had ever even delayed a war let alone prevented or stopped it once underway.

    To obviate a war, one needs a political party that is against wars of aggressions.
    The labels “Left”, whether in china, russia, italy, or US like all the other labels are to me meaningless-meaningful to frustration.
    We need to know how many “leftists” there are in US and what they stand for.
    Once u have a socialist party in US, one wld have a reasonable guess how many socialists there are in US and one wld know its platform.

    Interesting thing ab chomsky is that he’s against return of expelees’ children.
    In add’n, he had not, as far as i know, ever explained to us why he was adducing to us the facts ab israel.
    Now we know! He’s not for a one state solution for the shemitic peoples of islamic, christian, and mosheic faith. tnx

  15. bozh said on February 14th, 2010 at 11:42am #

    Learning from observable events- including history- appears better than “understanding history so that we wld not repeat it”.
    Let us observe history not so much for who won or lost a war, battle, etc., but largely for causative factors for wars.
    Everything is caused:poverty, lack of healthcare, miseducation, warfare, ‘nobility’,
    etc.
    For all this, there is but just one cause: division of people into less- and more- valuable. To see this, only one fair eye suffices. This means one needs not to go school or listen to ‘educators’, pols, clergy, collumnists, et al.

    Of course, schooling wld be ok, if it wld be allowed. There isn’t any; so, eyes will have to do.
    All wars are waged for land and everything that’s in it or on it and caused/waged by people who are hell on earth and usually no more than 10% of the pop or even as little as 0001% of the people. I call them the greatest criminal minds there is. tnx

  16. Don Hawkins said on February 14th, 2010 at 12:14pm #

    Dick Cheney is sounding off on his confident ideology the last few day’s and today I saw Karl Rove sound off on Fox New’s. I only caught the first few words but I think Karl Rove was talking about terrorists and the best way to administer justice to them. He then added eco terrorists, oh dear. Here we go where just telling the truth is a revolutionary act and/or you will be called a terrorist. He didn’t really say who these eco terrorists are I guess he left that to people’s imagination. The foolishness I see at Fox New’s is it criminal minds I see no fair and balanced stuff they tell me and I decide. It really is getting nut’s. Oh Dick Cheney did say waterboarding is ok. Dick dick dick…..

    “You must unlearn what you have learned.” “Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will…”

  17. rosemarie jackowski said on February 14th, 2010 at 12:32pm #

    In addition, remember that the US is a nation where the majority of the citizens find the deaths of 45,000+ of their own to be preferable to universal access to health care. We don’t even like ourselves so how can we expect compassion for those who live elsewhere.

    bozh…I have my little red card. The media refuses to cover Socialist Candidates. The educational system refuses to teach about socialism.

  18. Don Hawkins said on February 14th, 2010 at 1:55pm #

    And how is it that the American people learn what is right and what is wrong? How much money was spent by the insurance companies so the people could learn the truth? When you get old with universal health care they will put you to sleep and of course this very second in the arms of the angles get sick and see how well that works. It was only a cold I was seven sorry denied. The American people don’t want a climate bill again in the arms of the angles coal it’s where we get 50% of our energy and what else do we get?

  19. lichen said on February 14th, 2010 at 2:26pm #

    Your response to deadbeat is quite good, Ron; he is all about ideological purity.

    And I agree with Rosemarie–we have to stop this murder and destruction of the people’s and ecosystems, economies, psychological well-being of the middle east in any way possible. Almost twenty years of war against the humans of Iraq–the US has chemically poisoned, bombed, economically starved and exploited, stolen, and killed these innocent people for so long! Personally, I empathize very strongly with the middle eastern people currently being murdered and terrorized by the christian armies–and it isn’t acceptable to compromise.

    I don’t think the comparisons to Vietnam should be overdone; perhaps, unlike what Ron says, the ‘simple demand’ was just not enough–this is seen in how Obama promised (lied) that he would somehow end the war against Iraq while (leaving some troops there still, hah) but more importantly shifting the war to Afghanistan. That is the wholesale corruption of ‘simple demands.’ Too bad there wasn’t a movement that could have stopped the military industrial complex in it’s tracks instead of just going home and forgetting about it once the war stopped. How do we bring about a bigger change, to stop it all now–end the war on terror completely, stop the CIA, close the bases, and keep the military from taking over our political system?

  20. dan e said on February 14th, 2010 at 2:37pm #

    Well, Ron Jacobs, I usually find your writing impressive and admirable, but this time I think you’ve stumbled badly. Not the end of the world, I’ve stumbled a few times myself. (at least;) Only thing to do is absorb the lesson, make the course correction & start moving again.

    A few points: to imply that the issue is about “excluding people” is misdirection. The question is not who is to be “included” or allied with, tactically or strategically. The question is a) what is to be done, what are the priority tasks; and b) who should we entrust with leadership responsibilities.
    I’m dismayed to see you resort to the tired rhetoric about “ideological purity” which IMO fits the definition “last refuge of scoundrels”. This a non-sequiturial, non-logical line of argument which tries to escape the arguments of the opponent by changing the subject.

    It’s not its awesome capacity for violence & destruction that is the primary factor keeping the US/Nato military/security global State in power. The main prop of the current globalized Imperialist war machine is the acceptance by its subject populations of one or another fictional version of Reality created and deployed by said machine.

    Most US residents accept a very simple version of political reality as doctored by the MSM, professional politicians, etc. But a smaller number aren’t satisfied & insist on digging deeper. A much smaller number, after digging to some depth, find themselves so dissatisfied that they are moved to engage in political activity opposed to the main thrust of government policies. So to keep this kind of dissident activity from becoming a real hindrance to the execution of policies chosen by the Imperialist top echelon, they set up a series of “diversion canals”, a series of exercises into which dissenters are encouraged to pour their energies but which are closely controlled from the start by operatives reporting to said “top echelon”. In other words, sucker games.
    Before we can expect our efforts to have any impact on the War Machine, or on the NY Fed/Goldman Sachs/US Treasury theft machine, we need to develop skill at determining which of those offering “leadership”, to function as spokespeople and charters of the course, are real dissidents like ourselves, and which are stooges of the status quo, “Part of the Scam”. Or perhaps sincere people who aren’t overly sharp in some areas? For instance myself in 1984 & again in 1988 when against my better instincts I let the verbal reasoning part of my brain con me into supporting the Jesse Jackson scam.
    “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME.”

    There was an upsurge in late 2002 and early 2003 of previously politically inactive US residents opposed to the impending US attack on & invasion/occupation of Iraq. But unlike the upsurge in the middle sixties in opposition to the Vietnam War, this time the upsurge was quickly contained and energy dissipated.
    The Vietnam-era upsurge led to almost a decade of increased support for a variety of “leftwing” causes, and to recruitment of thousands of fresh faces into one or another “left” or “progressive” streams of activity. But very little along these lines has come about since 2003.
    So isn’t it obvious that it behooves us to closely examine the record of which “leaders” advocated what? Doesn’t the record show that UFPJ, the “Progressive Democrats”, the DSA/CCDS “Democratic Socialists”, the Chomskyists, Zunes, Bennis, Jochacz & the rest of the War for Oil crowd have all advocated courses of action which have led to the current debilitated state of such “antiwar” movement that can be said to exist?
    Sorry but that’s all the time I have.
    Thanks & compliments to DB for putting together such detailed arguments. I know you don’t have a lot of time either so I’m doubly appreciative:)

  21. dan e said on February 14th, 2010 at 2:55pm #

    Comparing those who expose the Zionist Power Configuration to the Weatherman faction is another red herring. It wasn’t “ideological purity” that made the Weatherman trend a waste, it was their crackpot petitbourgeois over-simplification of political reality which led many into engaging in silly acts of terrorism.
    “Working with”: just what does this phrase mean, in the political realm? There are different levels & degrees of “working with” “people you disagree with”.
    Is anybody saying you shouldn’t attend say the upcoming Mar 20 protest demo because there might be some Libertarians given a shot at the microphone? It’s not that it’s a crime to ever participate in something that these Warferoilers are also taking part in. The point is that these people are putting out wrong information which needs to be criticized and corrected. In actual fact, and the record shows this, it is this bunch who time and again have refused to participate in actions which involved people who insisted on espousing views the warferoylers didn’t like.

  22. Don Hawkins said on February 14th, 2010 at 4:36pm #

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthcomment/charlesclover/3340468/Climate-change-may-put-world-at-war.html

    Climate change will put the World at war. If you read this article they say may put the world at war on this present path there is no may about it. Again so far is the easy way out right now it’s millions then billions. One great big hole in this plan past a point we don’t stop it. In this last little economic downturn who go the help first? Who controls media, policy, business our thoughts in twenty ten? Who will get the help first and last so far? It’s just better that way oh really say’s who. Just the next year boring this will not be the you know what is going to hit the fan. If we get record ice melt Arctic and a warm summer then this next winter could be different then what? Wait don’t tell me stay diversified, ok.

  23. lichen said on February 14th, 2010 at 5:02pm #

    Indeed, the weathermen had better politics than those here who are obsessed with zionist conspiracy theories; who seek ideological purity and enter with that into discussions about war when they have absolutely no compassion or interest in their fellow human beings. Indeed, it is clear that deadbeat couldn’t give a damn about the Palestineans or Afghans; he and dan e simply have their “stylish” insults and attacks on every single author or speaker who is right on the issues, and they have their copy/paste dogma; nothing else.

  24. Deadbeat said on February 14th, 2010 at 5:27pm #

    Regretably it is clear that lichen is not into analysis or even decent argumentation but just name calling when he/she gets frustrated.

  25. Deadbeat said on February 14th, 2010 at 5:32pm #

    lichen writes …

    Your response to deadbeat is quite good, Ron; he is all about ideological purity.

    I guess being against oppression and exposing betrayal and betrayers on the Left is your way of dismissing my response. If that is your view of idelogical “purity” then I’m proudly guilty of it. Apparently you lichen willing are willing to dilute your principles.

  26. Deadbeat said on February 14th, 2010 at 5:34pm #

    Dane writes …

    I’m dismayed to see you resort to the tired rhetoric about “ideological purity” which IMO fits the definition “last refuge of scoundrels”. This a non-sequiturial, non-logical line of argument which tries to escape the arguments of the opponent by changing the subject.

    Thanks Dan. I’m tired of the ad hominem rhetoric coming from the Left in order to deflect from confronting Zionism. Shame on the Left.

  27. Ron Jacobs said on February 14th, 2010 at 6:12pm #

    Much of the left does not refrain from attacking zionism. However, they do understand the hierarchy of world power and through that understanding realize that the imperialism of Washington is the root of the problem, while Tel Aviv’s expansionism is an adjunct. No matter what deadbeat and others say, the US government does not serve Zionism. It serves capitalism. To see no further than the zionists who are in the US government and blame them for the wars Washington is currently fighting is dangerously close to repeating the nonsense of Lyndon LaRouche and other like minded souls.

  28. Don Hawkins said on February 14th, 2010 at 6:24pm #

    Nonsense is one word by golly you learn something new everyday. All this time I thought nonsense was two words. Non and sense. A newway of thinking is needed and soon.

  29. lichen said on February 14th, 2010 at 6:28pm #

    None of the analysis is yours deadbeat; you just latch onto each and every hateful piece of text launched at activists, writers, speakers, and grassroots people on the “left” as well as anything that sounds vaguely ‘conspirational.’ Meanwhile you do nothing; unlike people like rosemarie and myself, I doubt you were even a part of the demonstrations against the Iraq war in 2003. All the impressions you have are copy/paste. Oh well to you.

  30. bozh said on February 14th, 2010 at 7:53pm #

    I do not think u guys wld disagree much or as much as u do now if u’d keep just one fact in mind regarding use of language or langauge abusing u.
    However, i do not ever get abused by anyone’s langauge since i differentiate bwtn descriptions and wishes, conclusions, labels, inferences, theories, or even postulates.
    “Ideological purity” is a label or a generalization. True or false or right or wrong evaluation doesn’t pertain to any label, opinion, conclusion, promise.
    True or false answers apply only to a factual statement. EG, i say it is raining! You look and see rain falling. No argument.
    But once we talk ab capitalism or marxism which are mere labels the whole hell breaks lose because people don’t know that neither can be evaluated as either wrong or right or true or false.

    Some of u guys may be reefying labels? I.e., such as capitalism being a thing and can be talked ab as one wld talk ab a rock, bread, etc., which can be seen and marxism or capitalisn cannot! Recall that seeing is not believing- seeing is knowing and believing is guessing.
    People who evaluate their beliefes as factual knowledge are unsane or even insane and hus very dangerous.

    Nevertheless, one is always right ab any idea by own definition. What does “ideological purity mean to ron Jacobs” that’s the question to ask?
    Aks him to descend dwn on descriptive level enumerate some of thinkings that to him represent that label.
    How about right to obtain a medical treatment? U break a leg. Doctor fixes it. We all pay for it. End of story.
    On ideating level and using language to ‘explain’ it [an impossibilty] each person is right by own definition. The definitions selves not providing any enlihghtenment since we learn only via our 5 senses and description of what we actually experiensed.

    Basicly, as far as i can make out, that’s how priests, pols, ‘educators’ and collumnist deceive us. They stay on level of opinions, finger pointing, selflaudation, promise making [both explicit and tacit], ‘laws’, halflies while being careful to posit only a few facts that always of peripheral value.
    Here we have a chance to talk. For first time in history. So let us talk!
    Apodicticly, there must a right way to talk. We know that pols, priest do not talk.
    They are paid not to. We can learn from them. Slowly and carefully read what a pol says or writes.
    And one wld quickly see that they say nothing. I call that verbal barking; very vitiating to people who are not onto it. And, damn it, very succesful in making sane people unsane.
    Re: ‘zionism’? hey folks it is just a label. I do not care how one defines it. I prefer to use my two good eyes to see what ‘jews’ do in US and israel!
    Americans can even see or hear more than i; so let them tell what a particular ‘jew’ or all ‘jews’ are saying and doing. This wld end al arguing ab the damn label!

    let us note that recent US wars had been waged solely on the basis of beliefs. Of course, warlords probably knew that, but wanting land, they knew beliefs wdl suffice for approval of those wars. They know their people! It worked. Tnx

  31. bozh said on February 14th, 2010 at 8:00pm #

    Caveat, being right by own own definition only pertains to ideating and not to doing things such as killing innocent people. Here we use a different and necessary principle that we err, if we indeed wld err, on side of not killing innocent people. tnx

  32. kanomi said on February 14th, 2010 at 10:29pm #

    As someone relatively new to the progressive camp, largely in thanks due to media outlets such as this, one of the most surprising — and disappointing — aspects I’ve encountered is this apparently boundless appetite for constant, self-defeating, internecine strife.

    Let’s not lose sight of the goals; as Malcolm said in his Oxford speech — a speech incidentally, I first came across in a Mos Def song, not some navel-gazing, polemical linguistics journal:

    “People in power have misused it, and now there has to be a change and a better world has to be built, and the only way it’s going to be built is with extreme methods. And I, for one, will join in with anyone — I don’t care what color you are — as long as you want to change this miserable condition that exists on this earth.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEpcweXVJh8

    I don’t care what color your politics are, either: red, white, blue or pink – provided you want to end war now: I don’t care how many anarcho-syndicalists can dance on the head of a pin. We can’t lose another forest while we debate about the socio-political allegiances of the drivers of the bulldozers that are destroying all the trees.

    If this book, “Ending the US War in Afghanistan: A Primer” helps end the war in Afghanistan, then borrow the PDF and email it to twenty friends and use it to help end the war in Afghanistan.

    If its authors are less reliable on Iraq, because they or may not have some residual pro-Israeli leanings, so what? We all have blind spots. Malcolm X had blind spots, massive massive blind spots. That doesn’t invalidate his work on racism, nor should it disqualify these authors’ work on Afghanistan. Other people can write about Iraq and Palestine, Wall Street and Washington, Brussels, Tel Aviv, and 10 Downing street.

    It’s not like this world’s only sorrows are Zionism, or U.S. Imperialism, or war profiteers, or the criminal banking cabal; just as the only problem wasn’t Apartheid, slavery, Divine Right, or segregation. If Israel, Europe, and the U.S. vanished tomorrow, then Greater China, a new Caliphate, a resurgent robotic Japan, or some other form of technological, patriarchal oppression would quickly rise to fill the vacuum left behind. The police batons are everywhere, from Thailand to Sri Lanka, and human bones everywhere break easily.

    Our problems are deeper than the transient politics of nation states, so even as we must unite against every current manifestation of oppression we can reach, at the same time we must seek out the deeper, root causes embedded within civilization itself and work against them:

    “The notion that a forest, a gene, an idea, an image, a song is a separate thing that admits ownership is quite new. Who are we own to a piece of the world, to separate out a part of the sacred universe and make it mine?”
    — The Ascent of Humanity, Charles Eisenstein

  33. Deadbeat said on February 15th, 2010 at 2:59am #

    kanomi writes …

    As someone relatively new to the progressive camp, largely in thanks due to media outlets such as this, one of the most surprising — and disappointing — aspects I’ve encountered is this apparently boundless appetite for constant, self-defeating, internecine strife.

    To regard this as “internecine strife” largely misses what the debate is about. This discussion IMO is not about minor differences. My remarks was about analyzing 3 perspectives:

    [1] lichen remarks about how to reignite the anti-war movement
    [2] ron’s resurrection of Phyllis Bennis “leadership” and the “war for oil” angle.
    [3] Rahmet remarks about Zionist influence and interests.

    All I did was put these perspectives into a single HISTORICAL context when these same perspectives last converged in 2002-2004 — the last time there was an “anti-war” movement or the real possibility thereof.

    As I stated we need to look back at history in order to learn from it. Apparently there are some here who would rather IGNORE history and repeat those mistakes. Or there are those who are squeamish about dealing with truth and reality.

    The truth is that in order for there to be a renew effort to revive the anti-war movement we have — no MUST — analyze why the 2002-2004 movement that attracted millions to march against the invasion of Iraq failed to sustain itself. Lichen offers no analysis and Ron Jacobs avoids it preferring non-sequitars instead.

    Rahmet on the other hand introduces a perspective that CANNOT BE IGNORED. What Lichen refuses to deal with (or cannot deal with) is that there will be people INVOLVED in the anti-war movement that WILL RAISE THE ISSUE OF ZIONISM and its influence on U.S. policy for these Middle East wars. If the movement cannot cope with this FACT NOW then how the hell will the movement hold. The reality is — IT WON’T. Therefore contrary to kanomi’s perspective this is no mere internecine strife. This is about dealing with reality.

  34. Ron Jacobs said on February 15th, 2010 at 5:46am #

    Racism, militarism sexism, etc,. are elements of US capitalism. US capitalism was built on the backs of African slaves, the genocide of the native americans, the exploitation of immigrants, and maintained by continued racism against blacks and other non-whites, and the manipulation of the working class around questions of skin color and gender. The whole deal has been maintained and expanded via the military and the militarization of society. Capitalism is the root of the other evils in this country. That is not an absurd statement.

    (I’ll ignore the attempted insults, although I might remind deadbeat to review the commenting etiquette. I consider some of his statements regarding me to be pretty close to slander.)

    I agree with kamoni. Let’s get down to business and organize a movement to end the wars and occupations of the US.

  35. bozh said on February 15th, 2010 at 7:59am #

    Zionism, to me, means colonialism, murder, land theft, oppression, racism, nazism, facism, snobbishness, discrimination,etc., all this being carried out by the biggest criminal minds.

    Obviously, when one decries any war of aggression, one is also protesting what these socalled zionists do. And we can see what they do to palestinians.
    From what i know, ‘zionists’ also oppress americans. And also ratiowise rule america, or seem to rule america, more than any other group of people.

    We in vancouver have protested not only US wars but also israel’s behavior towards pal’ns. Arguments among us ab what ‘zionists’ do did not arise at all.
    ‘Jews’ among us may have had their own agenda or similar to what is now chomsky’s: damage control, promotion of a two-state nonsolution, etc.

    But the few ‘jews’ cldn’t and didn’t breakup StopWar.ca. In my opinion, people on the Left in US are helping ‘zionists’ by simply avoiding to vote for a socialist party or form a political ad hoc party that eventually cld lessen ‘zionist’ influence in US.
    Confronting [in whatever sense one may use this word] ‘zionists’ and other criminal minds, cannot, i aver, change the system of rule in US. Any threat to the system wld result in bloodshed.
    Thus, one can confront any individual in US; it is of the system. The system allows it. The more one blames Bush, BHO, lieberman, zionists, the more system likes it.
    It says silently: touch everything,just don’t touch me. Go ahead and make my day. I am getting tired of ur dailly laments, complaints, etc., anyway. tnx

  36. Deadbeat said on February 15th, 2010 at 12:17pm #

    I noticed the editors yanked my 3:00 am post but kept Ron Jacobs 6:12 pm post where he writes the following …

    To see no further than the zionists who are in the US government and blame them for the wars Washington is currently fighting is dangerously close to repeating the nonsense of Lyndon LaRouche and other like minded souls.

    That reference is clearly as smear designed to debase the nature of the debate as well as a non sequitar that does not conform to the commenting etiquette. Apparently the editors here sought not to remove his slur. Thus I’ll reiterate the remark that got removed.

    Ron stated the following ..

    the US government does not serve Zionism. It serves capitalism. To see no further than the zionists who are in the US government and blame them for the wars Washington is currently fighting is dangerously close to repeating the nonsense of Lyndon LaRouche and other like minded souls.

    What Ron is doing and now trying to say is that Zionism has nothing to do with Capitalism. As I stated Racism, Capitalism, and Militarism are interconnected and and overlap. They are not silos as Ron makes them out to be in his response. For Ron to suggest that I or people like Jeffrey Blankfort, James Petras, and others who are repeating the nonsense of Lyndon LaRouche is a anti-intellectual smear designed to dismiss scrutiny of how Zionists are USING U.S. capitalism and militarism to advance their agenda.

  37. Deadbeat said on February 15th, 2010 at 2:08pm #

    More Jeffrey Blankfort vs Phyllis Bennis encounters …

    Excerpt from Breaking the Silence on the Israel Lobby – by Jeffrey Blankfort

    Then I went over to Berkeley to the second day of a three-day conference organized by Students for Justice in Palestine where the issue of the Israel Lobby was nowhere on the agenda.

    I arrived during Phyllis Bennis’s presentation. Bennis, a fellow of the Institute for Policy Studies, a Washington-based liberal think tank, is one of the left’s more well known talking heads on the Israel-Palestine conflict and can frequently be heard on KPFA-FM [Berkeley, CA] and other Pacifica Radio stations.

    Over the years, like most of the other “experts” from the “left,” with the notable exceptions of Columnist Alexander Cockburn and Professor Ed Herman [University of Pennsylvania], she has never recognized, let alone been willing to discuss, the power of the Israel Lobby over US policy in the Middle East, despite overwhelming and indisputable evidence of its existence and of its influence.

    What happened when I arrived in the auditorium was astonishing. Seeing me in the back of the auditorium where I was sitting with a friend, totally out of the blue and raising her voice, she interrupted her talk to blurt out, “Congress is not Israeli Occupied Territory!”

    I assumed she was referring to an article that I had written 10 years earlier that was published in the 1992 edition of the City Lights Review, entitled, “Occupied Territory: Congress, the Israel Lobby and Jewish Responsibility.” In the article I had criticized the left supporters of the Palestinian movement for their failure to deal with the issue of the Israel lobby.

    My response to Bennis was immediate “Yes, it is!, ” I said aloud. “No it isn’t!,” she shot back, sharply, rather displeased, and went on to describe an effort that some members of the Congressional Black Caucus were making regarding the illegal use of US arms by the Israelis–against Palestinian civilians.

    In the question period, it became obvious that she didn’t want me to get the floor. While answering a question as to what actions people should take to help the Palestinian cause, she seemed to be filibustering as if she was hoping the question period would draw to a close.

    What would she have activists do? Believe it or not: write letters to the editor once a week. The system’s safety valve. As far as contacting members of Congress or protesting their support for Israel, the Washington-based Bennis said nary a word.

  38. Deadbeat said on February 15th, 2010 at 2:26pm #

    bozh writes …

    In my opinion, people on the Left in US are helping “zionists” by simply avoiding to vote for a socialist party or form a political ad hoc party that eventually cld lessen ‘zionist’ influence in US.

    I would alter this observation because it describes the outcome rather than the root of the problem that is the basis of my argument. The problem is that the “Left” is instrumental in the current state of confusion and misdirection that exist on the left side of the political spectrum. The outcome of the “Left’s” agenda has been to assist (whether deliberately or inadvertently) the rise of Zionism in the United States and to douse the anti-war movement.

    There are probably a variety of reasons for this that one can spend time speculating. But the OUTCOME of the “Left’s” influence is exactly as bozh describes. Trying to get to the root of this is extremely necessary in order for there to be any real chance to alter the current course. However trying to get to the root is the real challenge as the “Left” will use every rhetorical obstacle in order to circumvent it.

  39. bozh said on February 15th, 2010 at 4:34pm #

    DB, for now i wld like to talk only ab the root problem in US and the Left in US.

    Even BHO is on the Left, say some amers; yet,to me, he’s just a tad right of mussolini. So, am i to conclude that that’s not the kind of Left u have in mind? And then there are anarchists! And obviously anarchists are not the Left either.
    It also seems that almost no rabbi, priest, minister, imam, congressp., msm collumnist, mullah, ‘educator’, judge, general, cia/fbi agents, actor/actress, singer, doctor, army general/officer, et al are leftist.

    A leftist, for me,to earn that name, must repudiate the root evil.
    The root evil for all iniquities on interpersonal level is the division of people into less- and more-valued.
    All iniquities flow just from this one iniquity. That’s the ROOT Problem.
    Plebes or patricians are not categories in nature or of god. They are categories of ‘nobility’ and priests. What Left [which may amount to 1% of US pop] needs to do in order to eventually build an idyllic society is to change the system.

    But how? Well, go door to door and tell people wonderful news: Yes, we can build together a better society. People are not dumb! Americans are not evil and careless. They wld respond.
    What if they don’t? Well, u tried and found out; that’s all u cld have done.
    I wld then go on hunger strike and die rather than be under the thumb of criminal minds the rest of my life. tnx

  40. kalidas said on February 15th, 2010 at 7:31pm #

    I guess the US sure told Israel a thing or two…

    “U.S. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Michael Mullen, attended a press conference after his arrival to Israel and made it clear that all options are on the table. “We would operate all our forces for Israel”

    http://www.defpro.org/news/details/13160/

  41. Ron Jacobs said on February 15th, 2010 at 8:49pm #

    They would also operate all their forces for Germany, Britain, and any other nation they had a similar pact with.

  42. Ron Jacobs said on February 15th, 2010 at 8:59pm #

    can anyone honestly say that if Israel and its expansionist policies were to cease to exist tomorrow that Washington’s policy in the Middle East and South Asia would change? That Washington would stop threatening to attack Iran? That Washington would pull its military, CIA and mercenaries from Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan? That Egypt and Pakistan would stop being two of the biggest recipients of US military aid? I doubt very seriously that the policy would change (except perhaps that the US would be even more obvious in its role repressing the Palestinians, Iraqis, etc). This is why I am not convinced that Zionists and Tel Aviv are the primary culprits in Washington’s current wars of occupation taking place in that region or that Zionism is the primary reason for those wars.

  43. Deadbeat said on February 16th, 2010 at 2:18am #

    Ron Jacobs poses a bunch of rhetorical questions rather than deal with the evidence that is right in front of his face. This is the same rhetoric Max Shields used to promote here as well. Why is Ron and others like him on the Left in such denial when it comes to Zionism and its influence upon the U.S. political economy?

    What I find puzzling however is Ron’s desire to dismiss Zionism’s influence yet he chooses to promote Phyllis Bennis who was selling the “War for Oil” canard and was instrument in weakening the anti-war movement. The “War for Oil” rationale has been shown by the evidence to be misinformation if not downright disinformation. The oil companies were on record as being against the invasion of Iraq. In addition since the invasion it was a Dutch company (Shell) that won the major contracts from the U.S. puppet Iraqi government. Go figure.

    Apparently Ron and cadres would rather ignore the Project of New American Century (PNAC) who members were instrumental in the Bush Administration and who supported the invasion of Iraq — over objections of even the military. PNAC formulated their plans to invade Iraq even before Bush became president — while Clinton was still in office.

    The question is why are people like Ron and Phyllis Bennis so steadfast against mounting a real effort to confront American Zionism? They seem willing to confront American White Supremacy. Ron has written excellent articles on the topic of White Supremacy. In fact I was impressed with Ron’s nuance take regarding Black aspirations during the 2008 elections. Ron displayed an understanding of racism and the need to struggle against it.

    White Supremacy certainly played a role historically in how the United States formulate policies. Ron doesn’t hesitate to out politicians who harbor racist beliefs or formulate racist polices. Yet when it comes to that other racist ideology — ZIONISM — Ron attitude and outspokenness is 180 degrees opposite. Somehow he’s blind to Zionism’s influence on U.S. Foreign Policy despite all the evidence but is not blind to White Supremacy.

    I’d like an explanation from Ron about this dichotomy and contradiction. It would certain help me understand why there is a difference response to White Supremacy than to Zionism from many on the “Left”. Especially considering the fact that Zionism today is more influential and dangerous today because it covets the halls of power.

  44. Deadbeat said on February 16th, 2010 at 2:27am #

    Ron Jacobs writes …

    They would also operate all their forces for Germany, Britain, and any other nation they had a similar pact with.

    Can you enlighten us with some facts Ron? What pact did the U.S. sign with Israel for the U.S. to come to her defense? To my knowledge Israel is not a member of NATO.

  45. Deadbeat said on February 16th, 2010 at 3:02am #

    Ron writes …

    I agree with kamoni. Let’s get down to business and organize a movement to end the wars and occupations of the US.

    Been there done that. That was tried in 2002-2004 and the “Left” in the guise of Bennis and UFPJ chose to douse the anti-war movement as International Answer and others raised the issue of Zionism.

  46. mary said on February 16th, 2010 at 3:02am #

    Israel is in NATO de facto.

    http://israelmilitary.net/showthread.php?p=54461

    You have AIPAC.

    Israel is well represented in our seats of power. We have separate Labour, Conservative and Liberal Friends of Israel organisations in our two Houses of Parliament and the identical set ups exist in the EU. Additionally there is even an Anglican Friends of Israel organisation and many similar all working hard to promote the terror state’s interests.

    I seem to remember that there have been joint military exercises with NATO and with US contingents and I believe that there is also an Israeli naval involvement in patrolling the Mediterranean and the Gulf

    See Stooges on redress.cc

  47. Ron Jacobs said on February 16th, 2010 at 6:24am #

    Been there done that? Are you telling me that you are giving up any hope of ending these wars and occupations just because we failed to get the troops out in 2002-2004? That’s pretty defeatist if you ask me. Many of us have been in movements over the past several decades that did not succeed in all of their goals, but we fight on. As anyone who knows me or my writing, they know that I have no love for UFPJ and agree with you that its leadership is certainly one of the main reasons the antiwar movement of that period failed to end the war.

    As for the zionism vs. racism thing–I’m not into the hierarchization of oppression game. I agree that zionism is a racist ideology. That does not mean that it is the reason for US policy in the world. My understanding of how things work puts monopoly capitalism and its offspring imperialism as the root cause of the inequality and the accompanying injustice in the world.
    Just like racism has been part of the US game plan for centuries, Zionism is manipulated by those in the US power elites to get what it wants–US hegemony. Why? Because the role Israel wishes to play in the Middle East fits in nicely with that goal of US hegemony. This means that I understand that Israel’s oppression of the Palestinians coincides nicely with Washington’s desire to keep the Palestinians stateless and the rest of the Arab world under the yoke of repressive regimes either friendly to Washington or at least neutralized.
    I understand that many folks see Bennis to be an apologist for Israel. I too have problems with many of her statements around the issue and also with the Institute for Policy Studies. However, my piece here was not discussing Ms. Bennis. It was discussing a book she recently published that I consider a very useful resource for organizers and others interested in getting the US out of Afghanistan. This doesn’t mean I agree with everything in the book or with Ms. Bennis. It does mean that I believe the most important thing the left in the US can be doing right now is organizing a movement to get the troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan NOW!

  48. Ron Jacobs said on February 16th, 2010 at 6:58am #

    While there is no mutual defense pact, the “special relationship” between the two nations ensures that the US will come to Israel’s defense while Israel will essentially do the same for the US. I think we all understand this. In addition, Israel has often been a funnel for US monies going to countries and forces that the US did not want to be caught dealing with–Iran during the Iran-Contra mess, South Africa during the last years of apartheid, the contras themselves, UNITA in Angola.
    Although there is no formal defense pact, the idea was last floated in the 1990s. It seems to me that it was not acted on because of resistance from the Israelis who feared that such a pact would limit their weapons industry and increase dependence on US military protection.

  49. Hue Longer said on February 16th, 2010 at 8:21am #

    Hello All,

    DB,
    I’m glad you’ve been using ad hominem with a little more care (instead of leveling at those not being nice to you) but you still have some blind sides when it comes to committing it. Throwing out everything a person says because they correctly or incorrectly don’t associate Israel with root problems (or maliciously hide their supposed knowledge of this supposed fact) is ad hominem. I needn’t feel compelled to state my position on Israel to make my words true or false…again, ad hominem and it makes it difficult to discuss issues with you when this becomes predictable.

    Not to patronize you but there are things I’d love to discuss with you; I think the hypothetical, “what if Israel didn’t exist ?” is a very good topic for understanding what and who Empire is and I think you have some opinions on it. I am one who is open to hearing anything without labeling the writer a cook so if US Empire is rooted in machinations designed or controlled by Jewish converts in the 10th century I want to learn. Forgive me if this sounds “straw-man” but with the limits of what you give in the past concerning this question, it’s what I get from it.

  50. kalidas said on February 16th, 2010 at 8:51am #

    “Special relationship!”
    Well, I guess that IS what they’re calling it these days..
    Hard to believe a supposedly conscious man might even mutter such an absurdity.

    Nothing anyone says or does, even the deeds and words of the Israelis/Jews themselves, will ever convince those who refuse to be convinced or cannot be convinced for whatever reasons.

    The wagons never ever, in all of history, have ever been uncircled and they never will be. This by choice, by plan, by oath. ‘Their’ words again.

    Either you heed the likes of Tolstoy, Dostoyevsky, Voltaire, Cicero, Seneca, Aquinas, Belloc, Bacon, and on and on and on or you listen to the likes of Jacobs, Longer, Shields, Kinney and on and on and on.

    Not exactly rocket science, is it?

  51. livingbridge said on February 16th, 2010 at 1:38pm #

    Ron and others have said and repeated that the common denominator to today’s world’s ills is Capitalism. Although there’s a great deal of truth to the idea, I believe it’s an oversimplification.

    Capitalism has been around for many centuries. The difference between, say, Capitalism in the 15th century, which remained relatively contained in scope, and the war-mongering, political-financial context we know today is cheap energy.

    Capture and exploitation of cheap energy ushered in the Industrial revolution, led to massive exploitation of human labor [even pre-Industrial serfs and slaves had an unspoken right to food and shelter], greased the skids for the centralization of unimaginable wealth, which virtually handed the keys of global power to a handful of select families — this process employed all of the methods of conventional Capitalism but was speeded up by a factor of 10 [1 calorie manual labor = 10 calories in machine output], in a first instance, and then skyrocketed from there to the literal rape of the planet we know today.

    I mention these matters for two reasons: 1) the powerful behemoths of the world, Goldman Sachs, AIG, Bechtel, BP, never would have existed had it not been for cheap energy [increased output of goods, control of labor and wage suppression]; and 2) there is great concern among geologists, string-pullers and policy-makers that hydrocarbons are a finite resource.

    Unfortunately the Oil-drunk capitalist genie is out of its lamp, and doesn’t look ready to be crawling back into it any time soon.

    As for the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, 95% of the world’s population may find them horrific, but the punch drunk psychopaths who formulate geopolitical strategy and have the gold couldn’t care less what we think.

    This is not to imply that we should lose hope and give up political action, but I do think that successful, effective action will need to take a form that is commensurate with the gravity of the situation. To the extent possible, we need to understand where the world is being taken and strive to pinpoint the runaway system’s greatest vulnerabilities, striking where it hurts most.

    Although demonstrations may remain worthwhile [I’m not convinced, personally], they will be a waste of precious energy if they’re not accompanied by other, relentless, simultaneous mass-action campaigns.

  52. Deadbeat said on February 16th, 2010 at 1:58pm #

    Hue if you are going to make an accusation then have the decency to insert your counterparty’s actual remarks. Otherwise it appears that you are engaging in a tactic to shift the focus on the dicussion away from the actual topic. And also be consistent. It was Ron that made the Lyndon LaRouche remark.

    Also Hue if you want to engage in a hypothetical discussion I think Noam Chomsky would be a much better candidate than me. I’d rather deal in reality.

  53. Deadbeat said on February 16th, 2010 at 2:04pm #

    livingbridge writes …

    Capitalism has been around for many centuries. The difference between, say, Capitalism in the 15th century, which remained relatively contained in scope, and the war-mongering, political-financial context we know today is cheap energy. … Unfortunately the Oil-drunk capitalist genie is out of its lamp, and doesn’t look ready to be crawling back into it any time soon.

    It would be cheaper for the United States to obtain its oil from its current exploitation of Canadian and Latin America resources. The war in Iraq alone is costing 3 TRILLION dollars. Again the primary impetus for the War on Iraq was NOT for oil but for the advancement of the Zionist agenda. The Oil companies are on record being against the invasion of Iraq. In fact the recent Iran sanction bill that passed the Senate was about denying Iran of refined gasoline which clearly has a negative impact against the oil firms. Thus your argument is contradicted by the politics.

  54. lichen said on February 16th, 2010 at 2:57pm #

    “Either you heed the likes of Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Voltaire, Cicero, Seneca, Aquinas, Belloc, Bacon, and on and on and on or you listen to the likes of Jacobs, Longer, Shields, Kinney and on and on and on.

    Not exactly rocket science, is it?”

    No, it doesn’t take a “rocket” (i.e. a genocidal military) scientist to recognize such ridiculous snobbery. I suppose you can either listen to a list of primarily 19th century establishment writers who never saw or imagined the current world, or we could mix among ourselves here on the internet today. How democratic your choice is.

  55. livingbridge said on February 16th, 2010 at 2:57pm #

    deadbeat wrote:

    It would be cheaper for the United States to obtain its oil from its current exploitation of Canadian and Latin America resources.

    Of course it would. I wasn’t arguing that the US went to war in order to have access to ME oil, ie to exploit it. The US’s goal was to squat the stuff, so as to control who gets it. It’s Israel that’s keen on becoming a local oil hub — This is not to say that the US’s strategy has been or will ever be successful.

    The US / European collective fear is China. What kind of leverage do you suppose the Chinese will have with regard to the colossal sums of money it’s owed if the US & Co manage to control China’s energy imports?

  56. Hue Longer said on February 16th, 2010 at 3:00pm #

    DB,
    You said,
    “What I find puzzling however is Ron’s desire to dismiss Zionism’s influence yet he chooses to promote Phyllis Bennis who was selling the “War for Oil” canard and was instrument in weakening the anti-war movement”.

    It’s been brought to your attention that just because someone may or may not be a zionist, secret zionist, unknowing zionist, or person who puts their shoes on the wrong feet doesn’t render all they say useless. Also, finding use in what these people say doesn’t make the person doing so affiliated with them or any secret plots they conspired…it also doesn’t render all THEY say useless.

    (kalidas, the above goes for you too since you gave me a club to belong to. I enjoy reading everyone but this bizarre guilt by association game is illogical and paranoid…I got a kick from your esteemed panel you put yourself with–maybe initial motion could be brought to bear in who runs who).

    So DB, the question was posed by Ron as a hypothetical but I’ve posed it differently in the past by asking who wagged what before 1948. And before you get jumpy and again throw me in a boat with Zinn or Chomsky, I’m open to the answers and haven’t made concrete conclusions concerning who made who. I don’t throw out what you say just because of these encounters…I can separate the wheat from the chaff.

    Cheers

  57. kalidas said on February 16th, 2010 at 4:16pm #

    I know a duck when I see, hear and smell one.
    I believe most people do.
    Whether it’s 910, 1410, 1710 or 2010.

  58. Deadbeat said on February 17th, 2010 at 1:35am #

    Hue Longer writes …

    DB, You said, “What I find puzzling however is Ron’s desire to dismiss Zionism’s influence yet he chooses to promote Phyllis Bennis who was selling the “War for Oil” canard and was instrument[al] in weakening the anti-war movement”. It’s been brought to your attention that just because someone may or may not be a zionist, secret zionist, unknowing zionist, or person who puts their shoes on the wrong feet doesn’t render all they say useless. Also, finding use in what these people say doesn’t make the person doing so affiliated with them or any secret plots they conspired…it also doesn’t render all THEY say useless.

    Ok I see what Hue is saying. There are two kinds of ad hominems:

    [1] “against the man” or “against the person.”
    [2] Ad Hominem Tu Quoque. This fallacy is committed when it is concluded that a person’s claim is false because 1) it is inconsistent with something else a person has said or 2) what a person says is inconsistent with her actions.

    Essentially Hue is arguing that because Phyllis Bennis was played a huge role in weakening the anti-war movement in ’03-’04 that we should not dismiss her argument this time around. To do so is to permit an “ad hominem” fallacy against what she may have to say this time around.

    However there is a problem with Hue’s argument. If he read Ron’s article carefully he would find the following …

    The geopolitical meaning of Afghanistan in Washington’s strategy for empire is explained and so is the role of Unocal and pipelines.

    Once again we are being entertain by Bennis and her “War for Oil” explanation of all affairs in the Middle East. When it comes to Zionism however as we have seen from the articles by Jeffrey Blankfort and that Hue fails to take into consideration before labeling my analysis as “ad hominem” we see that Bennis is being not being inconsistent as the definition of Ad Hominem Tu Quoque indicates but that she (Bennis) is being rather CONSISTENT with her past position. And that consistency of DENIALISM is the basis of my critique and that of Jeffrey Blankfort. On that basis then Hue is INCORRECT and should do more research into what an ad hominem is before making incorrect accusations.

    In fact here an article I found that ties UNOCAL along with the NEO-CONS (Zionists) . That was clearly missing from Ron’s article. Perhaps Hue you should learn how to use the Internet to root out facts then perhaps you’ll refrain from making fallacious allegations.

    I find it more revealing that Hue has NOTHING to say about Ron’s ad hominem attack (“against the man” or “against the person.”) trying to link my position and the position of Jeffrey Blankfort to Lyndon LaRouche. It seems like Hue’s bias only goes in one direction.

  59. Deadbeat said on February 17th, 2010 at 1:41am #

    Hue writes …

    So DB, the question was posed by Ron as a hypothetical but I’ve posed it differently in the past by asking who wagged what before 1948. And before you get jumpy and again throw me in a boat with Zinn or Chomsky, I’m open to the answers and haven’t made concrete conclusions concerning who made who. I don’t throw out what you say just because of these encounters…I can separate the wheat from the chaff.

    I have no interest in debating “hypotheticals”. This is 2010 and the political power arrangement in 2010 is different than it was in 1930 and even in 1960. So let’s deal with REALITY please. Again Hue if you want to discuss what the world would be like without Israel I again suggest you have that conversion with Mr. Jacobs or Mr. Chomsky. I can’t throw you in with Zinn since he’s not around anymore.

  60. Hue Longer said on February 17th, 2010 at 5:56am #

    DB,
    Your bluffing on understanding ad hom aside, my rephrasing of the question is not hypothetical.

  61. Deadbeat said on February 17th, 2010 at 11:42am #

    Hue unfortunately you have nothing to add to the discussion other than your own ad hominems and you had nothing to say about Ron’s ad hominem attack using Lyndon LaRouche. Therefore Hue all you’ve done is display your own bias an weak attempt to alter the discussion away from the main point. The definitions I posted were directly from the Nizkor Project. I won’t bother posting the link because you are too lazy to do your own research. I’ve posted links and supporting reference to support my arguments. All you are doing is trying to change the subject of the discussion while offering no useful information.

  62. kanomi said on February 17th, 2010 at 6:16pm #

    This article was about the unjust war in Afghanistan, so those who continue to bring up Zionism every five minutes are either prejudiced, benighted, or actively sewing discord on behalf of some patrician class.

    Because to talk about an ‘international Jewish banking conspiracy’ is stupid and it can be proven stupid with a simple mental exercise: if there is an ‘international Jewish banking conspiracy’ then they are the worst conpirators in history, since somehow a vast percentage of their own nation died in the death camps of Nazi Germany. Pretty lousy conspiracy if you ask me.

    Here is another strike against that conspiracy: Aren’t all of these international superbankers also white (and more than a few are Christians or atheists but never mind that). Since that’s true, why don’t we talk about the ‘international Caucasian banking conspiracy’ that every white person magically benefits from?

    I haven’t benefited from the magical international Caucasian banking conspiracy, have you? Looking at the carnage of the World Wars or 19th Century child labor practices or the police state of today? I don’t think my Irish ancestors took much solace in the magical international Caucasian banking conspiracy. I don’t think the indentured servants in the Colonies or the peasants in Russia or Poland or France etc. found it very heartwarming.

    So that is mythology. Here is reality:

    There is a tiny elite of rentiers of various European origins but no particular devotion that are the only ones who actually thrive unwholesomely on the unearned interest of the mass of Western Civilization. They use nationalism, religion, and other partisan issues to divide us; they use foundations, corporations, politicians, and media to rule us.

    Liberal outrage against this system has historically been channeled not against the system itself, but against its most egregious proponents: Southern Plantation Slavers, Russian Serf Owners, Segregationists, South African Apartheidists, or Zionists. At the same time, it sets up or at least supports and helps bring to power varioius vile opponents: National Socialists, Soviet Communists, Maoists, Talibanists — even if the enemy has to be funded by the Money Power system itself.

    This effectively dilutes criticism of the status quo in London-Washington (the Money-Power system). It also actually gets a lot of otherwise fair-minded people to get up and work for the status quo, too, harnessing their zeal to break down various enemies of the neo-Liberal consensus: Iran, for example, in our today, or all the anti-Apartheid and anti-Zionist activists. Not that they aren’t moral in opposing these governments, but their energy is being channeled and stolen, to empower the core.

    So instead of talking about “Democrats” and “Republicans” and “Zionists” and “Ugly Americans” and “terrorists”, we need to go where the origin of criminality is staring us in the face: massive private fortunes that span generations and should be broken up and seized, not just for the good of all humanity but for our sanity too. The idea that a corporation is a person and that any restraint on its capacity to bribe politicians and write its own legislation (“free speech” in the degraded logic of a corrupt, broken Supreme Court) is an abomination.

    And if we don’t do this, there will be another world war. Because our own idiot rich criminals actually DON’T own the entire world: India, China, Iran, Russia, much of the Islamic world still remain outside their grasp.

    And they continue to provoke and prevaricate.

  63. Ron Jacobs said on February 17th, 2010 at 6:30pm #

    thank you kanomi

  64. Deadbeat said on February 18th, 2010 at 3:00am #

    kanomi introduces a strawman …

    Because to talk about an ‘international Jewish banking conspiracy’ is stupid and it can be proven stupid with a simple mental exercise: if there is an ‘international Jewish banking conspiracy’ then they are the worst conpirators in history, since somehow a vast percentage of their own nation died in the death camps of Nazi Germany. Pretty lousy conspiracy if you ask me.

    The discussion is about the “Left” denial of Zionist influence U.S. Foreign Policy in the current epoch. kanomi’s strawman reflects the rhetorical gymnastics in order to maintain not only denial of Zionism’s influence but misinformation.

    The collapsed state of the anti-war movement confirms the consequences of the failure of Phyllis Bennis, her UFPJ cadre, and the “Left’s” denial of Zionism has led to a huge distrust and an inability of the Left to build a sustained movement. IMO the “Left” would rather maintain this collapsed and confused condition rather than run the risk of a movement that bring in voices that confronts the power and influence of Zionism on the American political economy.

    kanomi also writes …

    Liberal outrage against this system has historically been channeled not against the system itself, but against its most egregious proponents: Southern Plantation Slavers, Russian Serf Owners, Segregationists, South African Apartheidists, or Zionists. At the same time, it sets up or at least supports and helps bring to power varioius vile opponents: National Socialists, Soviet Communists, Maoists, Talibanists — even if the enemy has to be funded by the Money Power system itself.

    This observation by kanomi has a mere grain of truth about Liberals which would seemingly make such an argument difficult to rebut however his argument is very badly misplaced. Liberals do not fault Zionists for anything. Liberals like the “Left” do not scrutinize Zionism’s influence of the U.S. Political Economy. In fact many Liberals like Nancy Pelosi are themselves some of Zionism’s biggest supporters. Thus kanomi uses a false dilemma fallacy to conceal his denialism, alter the course of the discussion and to dismiss analysis of a very serious problem.

    Essentially kanomi argument is that we should cease this “divisive” discussion about Zionist influence because it “misses” the “bigger picture” of “Capitalism” and “Imperialism”. That position is the well worn out Chomskyite fallacy.

    I reject kanomi arguments because the leftist position has traditionally been to fully ANALYZE racism, capitalism and militarism. Zionism is a racist ideology that has tremendous influence on U.S. foreign policy in particular and is USING both capitalism and militarism to advance its agenda. Why is that the Left could mount a challenge and speak out against white supremacy but is extremely reluctant to confront Zionism? Such a confrontation against Zionism will extend to a confrontation of capitalism and militarism. In order words confronting Zionism is a MEANS and a GATEWAY to confront THE BIGGER PICTURE.

    To those who want to continue to deny Zionism’s influence just listen to the VICE PRESIDENT Joseph Biden at AIPAC Policy Conference 2009 part1 & part 2

    One thing that will not change our commitment to the peace and security to the state of Israel

    This is the most poignant part of the speech at 2:30 of part 2.
    And President Barack Obama shares that same commitment. His support is rooted in that Zionist idea to which he spoke about last year at this conference …(quoting Obama) “I deeply understood the Zionist idea that there is always a homeland the center of our story”

    Now substitute “Zionist” for “the white race” and George Wallace or Bull Conner give that same speech. The only difference is that if the words were “the white race” you’d get a much different reaction from the “Left”.

  65. bozh said on February 18th, 2010 at 8:23am #

    ‘Nobility’ [read please people who oppress peasants] had taught us that when mns of people steal, murder, expel people from their homes, it glorifies a nation.
    So we had sargon the devine and greats like alexsander, peter, otto, karlo, cyrus, et al.
    But if an individual steals a loaf a bread, that wld definitely be either scorned or punished.
    And devil help u if u abort! That is the worst crime u cld commit! tnx

  66. kalidas said on February 18th, 2010 at 12:47pm #

    Two skinheads goosestepping down the street in an obscure Idaho town makes headline news in every paper and news chanel in the US, but the demonic assault and coldblooded murder of those children in Gaza merits hardly a peep.
    And only then to elicit teeth gnashing and hand wringing as to the security of our “special friends.”
    Only a pyschosis explains why these few don’t “get” that the masses of people DO “get it.”
    Same as it ever was?
    You betcha.