Libya: Popular Uprising, Civilian War, or Military Attack?

[This interview took place before the imperialist invasion of Libya, but it provides a requisite background to understanding why this invasion is taking place. — Eds]

Over the last three weeks there have been confrontations between troops loyal to Colonel Gaddafi and opposition forces based in the east of the country. After Ben Ali and Mubarak, will Gaddafi be the next dictator to fall? Can what is happening in Libya be compared to the popular uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt? What can be made of the antics and u-turns we have seen from the Colonel? Why is NATO preparing for war? How do you tell the difference between a good Arab and a bad Arab? Mohammed Hassan replies to questions from Investig’Action.

Grégoire Lalieu & Michel Collon: After Tunisia and Egypt, has the Arab revolution reached Libya?

Mohammed Hassan: What is happening at the moment in Libya is different. In Tunisia and Egypt, the lack of freedom was flagrant.However, it was the appalling social conditions which really drove young people to rebel.The Tunisians and Egyptians had no hope for the future.

In Libya, Muammar Gadaffi’s regime is corrupt, monopolises a large part of the country’s wealth and has always severely repressed any opposition. But the social conditions of Libyan people are better than in neighbouring countries. Life expectancy in Libya is higher than in the rest of Africa.The health and education systems are good.Libya, moreover, is one of the first African countries to have eradicated malaria.While there are major inequalities in the distribution of wealth, GDP per inhabitant is about $11,000 – one of the highest in the Arab world.You will not therefore find in Libya the same objective conditions that led to the popular uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt.

GL&MC: How then do you explain what is happening in Libya?

MH: In order to understand current events properly, we should place them in their historic context. Libya was formerly an Ottoman province. In 1835 France took over Algeria. Meanwhile Mohamed Ali, the Egyptian governor under the Ottoman Empire, was implementing ever more independent policies. With the French installed in Algeria on the one hand, and Mohamed Ali in Egypt on the other hand, the Ottomans were fearful of losing control of the region. They sent their troops to Libya.

At the time the Senoussis Brotherhood was highly influential in the country. It had been founded by Sayid Mohammed Ibn Ali as Senoussi, an Algerian who, after studying in his own country and in Morocco, went to preach his version of Islam in Tunisia and Libya. At the start of the 19th century, Senoussie began to attract numerous followers, but he was not much appreciated by certain of the Ottoman religious authorities who criticised him in their sermons.After spending some time in Egypt and in Mecca, Sennoussi decided to exile himself permanently in Cyrenaica, in the east of Libya.

His Brotherhood grew there and organised life in the región, levying taxes, resolving disputes between tribes, etc. It even had its own army and offered its services escorting merchants’ caravans passing through the area. Finally his Senoussis Brotherhood became the de facto government of Cyrenaica, expanding its influence even as far as northern Chad. But then the European colonial powers installed themselves in Africa, dividing the sub-Saharan part of the continent. That had a negative impact on the Senoussis.Libya’s invasion by Italy also seriously undermined the Brotherhood’s regional hegemony.

GL&MC: In 2008 Italy paid compensation to Libya for the crimes of the colonialists.Was colonisation as terrible as all that?Or did Berlusconi want to be seen in a good light in order to be able to conclude commercial contracts with Gaddafi?

MH: The colonisation of Libya was dreadful. At the beginning of the 20th century, a fascist government began spreading propaganda claiming that Italy, which had been defeated by the Ethiopian army at the battle of Adoua in 1896, needed to re-establish the supremacy of the white man over the black continent. It was necessary to cleanse the great civilised nation of the affront inflicted on it by the barbarians. This propaganda claimed that Libya was a country of savages, inhabited by a few backward nomads and it would be good for Italians to install themselves in this pleasant region with its picture postcard beauty.

The invasion of Libya arose out of the Italian-Turkish war of 1911 – a particularly bloody conflict which ended in victory for Italy a year later. Nevertheless, the European power only gained control of the Tripoli region and met with fierce resistance in the rest of the country, especially in Cyrenaica.The Sennousi clan supported Omar al-Mokhtar who led a remarkable guerrilla struggle in the forests, caves and mountains. He inflicted serious losses on the Italian army, although the latter was much better equipped and numerically superior.

Finally, at the beginning of the 1930s, Mussolini took radical measures to wipe out the resistance.Repression became extremely brutal and one of the main butchers, General Rodolfo Graziani, worte:“Italian soldiers were convinced that hey had been entrusted with a noble and civilising mission … They owed it to themselves to fulfil this humane duty at whatever cost … If the Libyans cannot be convinced of the fundamental benefits of what has been proposed to them, then Italians must wage a continual struggle against them and can destroy the entire Libyan population in order to bring peace, the peace of the cemetery …”

In 2008, Silvio Berlusconi paid compensation to Libya for these colonial crimes. Of course it was based on ulterior motives. Berlusconi wanted to get himself into Gaddafi’s good books in order to facilitate economic partnerships. Nevertheless, one can say that the Libyan people suffered terribly under colonialism. It would be no exaggeration to speak in terms of genocide.

GL&MC: How did Libya win its Independence?

MH: While the Italian colonists were suppressing the resistance in Cyrenaica, the Senoussis leader, Idriss, exiled himself in Egypt in order to negotiate with the British.After the Second World War, the European colonial empire was gradually dismantled and Libya became independent in 1951.Supported by Britain, Idriss took power. However, part of the Libyan bourgeoisie, under the influence of Arab nationalism that was developing in Cairo, wanted Libya to become part of Egypt. But the imperialists did not want to see a great Arab nation formed.They therefore supported the independence of Libya by putting their puppet, Idriss into power.

GL&MC: Did King Idriss go along with all this?

MH: Absolutely. At independence, the three regions that made up Libya – Tripolitana, Fezzan and Cyrenaica – found themselves united in a federal system. But it should be borne in mind that Libya is three times larger than France.Because of a lack of infrastructure, the borders of this territory could not be clearly defined until after the aeroplane had been invented.And in 1951, the country only had 1 million inhabitants. Furthermore, the three regions that had just been united had a very different culture and history. Finally, the country lacked roads linking the regions to facilitate communication. Libya was in fact at a very backward stage, and it was not a true nation.

GL&MC: Can you explain this concept?

MH: The nation state is a concept linked to the appearance of the bourgeoisie and of capitalism. In Europe in the middle ages, the capitalist bourgeoisie desired to spread its business interests on as wide a scale as possible, but was impeded in by all the constraints of the feudal system.Territories were divided up into numerous tiny entities which imposed on merchants a large number of taxes if they wanted to transport merchandise from one place to another. And this is without taking into account the various obligations they had to perform for the feudal lords.All these obstacles were removed by the capitalist bourgeois revolutions which allowed them to create nation-states, and big national markets, without obstacles.

But the Libyan nation was created at a time when it was still at a pre-capitalist stage. It lacked the infrastructure; a large part of the population was nomadic and impossible to control; divisions within society were very strong; slavery was still practised. Furthermore King Idriss had no plan for developing the country. He was entirely dependent on US and British aid.

GL&MC: Why did he receive the support of the US and Britain? Was it to do with oil?

MH: In 1951 Libyan oil had not yet been discovered. But the Anglo-Saxons had military bases in the country because it occupies a strategic position from the point of view of control of the Red Sea and the Mediterranean.

It was only in 1954 that a rich Texan, Nelson Bunker Hunt, discovered Libyan oil. At the time Arab oil was being sold at around 90c a barrel. But Libyan oil was bought for 30c because the country was so backward. It was perhaps the poorest in Africa.

GL&MC: But money was nevertheless coming in thanks to oil.What was it used for?

MH: King Idriss and his Senoussis clan enriched themselves personally. They also distributed part of the oil revenues to the heads of other tribes in order to pacify tensions. A small élite developed thanks to the oil trade and some infrastructure was built, principally along the Mediterranean coast, the area of greatest importance for external trade.But the rural areas in the heart of the country remained very poor and large numbers of the poor began to flood into slums around the cities.This continued until 1969 when three officers overthrew the king, one of whom was Gaddafi.

GL&MC: How come the revolution was carried out by army officers?

MH: In a country deeply rent by tribal divisions, the army was in fact the only national institution. Libya as such did not exist except through its army. Alongside this, King Idriss’s Senoussis had their own militia. But in the national army, Libyans from the different regions could get to know each other.

Gaddafi had at first developed as part of a Nasserite group, but then came to understand that this organisation would not be able to overthrow the monarchy, so he joined the army. The three officers who overthrew King Idriss were very much influenced by Nasser. Gamal Abdel Nasser was himself an officer in the Egyptian army that overthrew King Farouk. Inspired by socialism, Nasser was opposed to the interference of foreign neo-colonialism and preached the unity of the Arab world.Moreover he nationalised the Suez Canal, which had until then been managed by France and the UK, which attracted the hostility of the West and bombing in 1956.

The revolutionary pan-Arabism of Nasser was a major influence in Libya, especially in the army and over Gaddafi.The Libyan officers who carried out the coup d’état in 1969 were following the same agenda as Nasser.

GL&MC: What were the effects of the revolution on Libya?

MH: Gaddafi had two options. Either he could leave Libyan oil in the hands of western companies, as King Idriss had done – with Libya becoming like one of the oil monarchies of the Gulf where slavery is still practised, women have no rights and European architects can indulge themselves in building all kinds of bizarre constructions with astronomical budgets supplied at the end of the day from the wealth of the Arab peoples. Or he could follow the road of independence from the neo-colonial powers. Gaddafi chose the second option. He nationalised Libyan oil, greatly angering the imperialists.

In the 1950s a joke went round the White House at the time of the Eisenhower administration, which under Reagan was turned into an actual political theory. How do you tell good Arabs from bad Arabs? A good Arab does was the US tells him. In return he gets aeroplanes, is permitted to deposit his money in Switzerland, is invited to Washington, etc. These are the people Eisenhower and Reagan called good Arabs – the Kinds of Saudi Arabia and Jordan, the Sheikhs and Emirs of Kuwait and the Gulf, the Shah of Iran, the King of Morocco and, of course, King Idris of Libya. The bad Arabs? Those were the ones who did not obey Washington: Nasser, Gaddafi and later Saddam …

GL&MC: All the same, Gadaffi is not very …

MH: Gaddafi is not a bad Arab because he ordered the crowd to be fired on.The same thing was done in Saudi Arabia or in Bahrain and the leaders of those countries still receive all the honours the West can confer. Gaddafi is a bad Arab because he nationalised Libyan oil, which the western companies believed – until the 1969 revolution, to be their own. By doing this, Gaddafi brought about positive changes in Libya in what concerns infrastructure, education, health, the position of women, etc.

>GL&MC: Well, Gaddafi overthrew the monarchy, nationalised oil, opposed the imperial powers and brought about positive changes in Libya. Nevertheless, 40 years later, he is a corrupt dictator which suppresses all opposition and who is once again opening his country to western companies. How do you explain that change?

MH: From the start, Gaddafi was opposed to the great colonial powers and generously supported various liberation movements throughout the world. I think he was very good for that reason. But to give the full picture, it is also necessary to mention that the Colonel was an anti-communist. In 1971, for example, he sent back to Sudan an aeroplane which was carrying Sudanese communist dissidents who were immediately executed by President Nimeiri.

The truth is that Gaddafi has never been a great visionary. His revolution was a bourgeois national revolution and what he established in Libya was state capitalism. To understand how his regime lost its way, we must analyse the context – which has gone against it – and also the personal mistakes made by Gaddafi.

First of all, we have seen that Gaddafi had to start from scratch in Libya. The country was very backward.There were no educated people at his disposal or strong working class to support the revolution. Most of the people who had received education were members of the élite who had bartered Libya’s wealth to the neo-colonial powers. Obviously these people weren’t going to support the revolution and most of them left the country in order to organise opposition from abroad.

Besides, the Libyan officers who overthrew King Idriss were much influenced by Nasser. Egypt and Libya sought to tie up a strategic partnership. But when Nasser died in 1970, this project was dead in the water and Egypt became a counter-revolutionary country aligned with the West. The new Egyptian president, Anwar Sadat, allied himself with the US, progressively liberalised the country’s economy and entered into an alliance with Israel. A brief conflict even broke out with Libya in 1977. Imagine the situation in which Gaddafi found himself: the country which had inspired him and with which he had been hoping to set up an important alliance had suddenly become an enemy!

Another element of the situation worked against the Libyan revolution: the major fall in oil revenues during the 1980s. In 1973, at the time of the Israeli-Arab war, the oil-producing countries decided to impose an embargo that caused the price of a barrel of oil to shoot up. This embargo brought about the first great transfer of wealth from the North in the direction of the South. But during the 1980s there also took place what one could call an oil counter-revolution orchestrated by Reagan and the Saudis. Saudi Arabia increased its production considerably and flooded the market, causing a massive drop in prices. The barrel went down from $35 to $8.

GL&MC: Wasn’t Saudi Arabia shooting itself in the foot?

MH: Of course this had a negative impact on the Saudi economy. But oil is not the most important thing for Saudi Arabia. Its relationship with the US matters most, because it is the support of Washington that allows the Saudi dynasty to stay in power.

This tidal wave affecting the oil price proved catastrophic for several petrol-producing countries who fell into debt. All this happened only 10 years after Gaddafi came to power. The Libyan leader, who came from nothing, was seeing the only means he had to build anything disappear like molten snow as the oil money dwindled.

It should also be borne in mind that this oil counter revolution also accelerated the collapse of the USSR which at the time was bogged down in Afghanistan. With the disappearance of the Soviet bloc, Libya lost its major source of political support and found itself isolated on the international scene, and moreover featured on the Reagan administration’s list of terrorist states and was subjected to a whole series of sanctions.

GL&MC: What were Gaddafi’s mistakes?

MH: As I have said, he wasn’t a great visionary.The theory developed in connection with his Green Book is a mix of anti-imperialism, Islamism, nationalism, state capitalism and other things. Besides his lack of political vision, Gaddafi made a serious mistake in attacking Chad in the 1970s. Chad is Africa’s 5th largest country and the Colonel, no doubt feeling Libya was too small to accommodate his megalomanic ambitions, annexed the Aozou Strip. It is true that historically the Senoussis Brotherhood had exercised its influence on this region. And in 1945 the French Foreign Minister, Pierre Laval, wanted to buy off Mussolini by offering him the Aozou Strip. ((This area is rich in uranium.)) But in the end Mussolini drew close to Hitler and the deal remained a dead letter.

Gaddafi nevertheless wanted to annex this territory and engaged in a struggle against Paris for influence over this former French colony. In the end, the US, France, Egypt, Sudan and other reactionary forces in the region supported the Chadian army which defeated the Libyan troops. Thousands of soldiers and large quantities of arms were captured. The President of Chad, Hissène Habré, sold these soldiers on to the Reagan administration; and the CIA used them as mercenaries in Kenya and Latin America.

But the Libyan revolution’s biggest mistake was to have bet too heavily on its oil. It is human resources that are a country’s greatest wealth. You cannot succeed in a revolution if you do not develop national harmony, social justice and a fair distribution of wealth.

However, the Colonel never eliminated the discriminatory practices that had long been a tradition in Libya. How can you mobilise the population if you do not prove to the Libyans that whatever their ethnic or tribal backgrounds, all are equal and can work together for the good of the nation? The majority of the Libyan population is Arab, speaks the same language and shares the same religion. Ethnic diversity is not very important. It would have been possible to abolish all discrimination in order to mobilise the population.

Gadaffi was also incapable of educating the Libyan people in revolutionary matters. He did not raise the level of political consciousness of citizens and did not build a party to support the revolution.

GL&MC: Nevertheless, in accordance with his 1975 Green Book, he did set up people’s committees, a kind of direct democracy.

MH: This attempt at direct democracy was influenced by Marxist-Leninist concepts. But these people’s committees in Libya were not based on any political analysis, or any clear ideology.They failed. Neither did Gaddafi build a political party to support his revolution. In the end, he cut himself off from the people. The Libyan revolution became a one-man project. Everything revolved around this charismatic leader divorced from reality.And while a gulf opened up between the leader and his people, force and repression step in to fill the void. Excess began to follow excess, corruption expanded and tribal differences crystallised.

Today these divisions have come to the forefront in the Libyan crisis. There is of course a part of Libyan youth that is tired of the dictatorship and has been influenced by events in Tunisia and Egypt. But these popular sentiments are being taken advantage of by the opposition in the east of the country which is after its share of the cake, the distribution of wealth having been very unequal under the Gaddafi regime. It will not belong before the real contradictions see the light of day.

Moreover we don’t know a great deal about this opposition movement.Who are they? What is their programme? If they really wanted to wage a democratic revolution, why have they resorted to he flags of King Idriss, symbols of the time when Cyrenaica was the country’s dominant province? If you are part of a country’s opposition, and as a patriot you want to overthrow your government, you must try to do this correctly. You do not cause a civil war in your own country and you do not put it at risk of balkanisation.

GL&MC: In your view, it is no longer just a question of a civil war resulting from contradictions between different Libyan clans?

MH: It’s worse, I think.There have already been inter-tribal contradictions but they have never been so widespread. Here the US is fanning the flames of these tensions in order to be able to intervene militarily in Libya. From the very first days of the insurrection, the Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, was suggesting arming the opposition. From early on the opposition organised by the National Council refused all foreign interference on the part of foreign powers because they knew that any such interference would discredit their movement.But today some of the opposition are calling for armed intervention.

Since this conflict broke out, President Obama has called for all possible options to be considered and the US Senate is calling on the international community to impose a no-fly zone over Libyan territory, which would be a real act of war. Moreover the nuclear aircraft carrier, USS Enterprise, which was stationed in the Gulf of Aden to counter piracy, has travelled up to the Libyan coast. Two amphibian ships, USS Kearsage and USS Ponce, with several thousands of marines and fleets of combat helicopters aboard, have also been stationed in the Mediterranean.

Last week, Louis Michel, former EU Development and Humanitarian Aid commissioner, forcefully raised the question in a TV studio as to which government would have courage to make the case to its parliament for the necessity of military intervention in Libya. But Louis Michel never demanded any such intervention in Egypt or Bahrain.Why was that?

GL&MC: Is the repression not more violent in Libya?

MH: The repression was very violent in Egypt but NATO never sent warships to the Egyptian coast to threaten Mubarak. There was merely an appeal to find a democratic solution.

In the case of Libya, it is necessary to be very careful with the information that reaches us. One day there is talk of 2,000 deaths, and the next day the count is revised to 300. It was also being said from the very start of the crisis that Gaddafi was bombing his own people, but the Russian army, which is observing the situation by satellite, has officially given lie to that information. If NATO is preparing to intervene militarily in Libya, we can be sure that the dominant information media are going to spread their usual war propaganda.

In fact the same thing happened in Romania with Ceausescu. On Christmas Eve, 1989, the Belgian prime minister, Wilfred Martiens, made a speech on television.He claimed that Ceaucescu’s security forces had just killed 12,000 people.It was untrue.The images of the famous Timosoara massacre also did the rounds all over the world.They were aimed at proving the mindless violence of the Romanian president.But it was proved later on that it was all staged. Bodies had been pulled out of morgues and placed in trenches in order to impress journalists. It was also said that the communists had poisoned the water, that Syrian and Palestinian mercenaries were present in Romania, or even that Ceaucescu had trained orphans as killing machines.It was all pure propaganda aimed at destabilising the regime.

In the end Ceaucescu and his wife were killed after a kangaroo court trial lasting 55 minutes. Of course, the Romanian president, like Gaddafi, was no choir boy. But what has happened since? Romania has become a European semi-colony. Its cheap labour power is exploited. Numerous services have been privatised for the benefit of western companies, and they are financially out of reach for a large part of the population. And now every year there is no shortage of Romanians who go to weep on Ceaucescu’s tomb. The dictatorship was a terrible thing, but after the country was destroyed economically, it’s even worse.

GL&MC: Why did the US want to overthrow Gaddafi? For the last ten years or so, the Colonel has been quite amenable to the West and privatised a large party of the Libyan economy, benefitting western companies in the process.

MH: One must analyse all these events in the light of the new balance of forces in the world. The imperialist powers are in decline, while other forces are on the rise. Recently China offered to buy the Portuguese debt! In Greece, the population is more and more hostile to this European Union that it perceives as a cover for German imperialism. Similar feelings are growing in the countries of the East. Furthermore, the US attacked Iraq in order to get control of its oil, but in the end only one US company is benefiting; the rest of the oil is being exploited by Malaysian and Chinese companies.In short, imperialism is in crisis.

In addition, the Tunisian revolution really took the West by surprise. The fall of Mubarak even more so. Washington is attempting to regain its influence over these popular movements but its control is slipping away. In Tunisia, prime minister Mohamed Ghannouchi, a straightforward product of the Ben Ali dictatorship, was meant to control the transition, creating the illusion of change. But the people’s determination forced him to resign. In Egypt, the US was relying on the army to keep an acceptable system in place. But I have received information confirming that in very many military barracks around the country, young officers are organising themselves in revolutionary committees in support of the Egyptian people. They have even arrested certain officers associated with the Mubarak regime.

The region could well escape US control. Intervention in Libya would allow Washington to smash this revolutionary movement and stop it spreading to the rest of the Arab world and to Africa. Since last week, the young have been rising in Burkina Faso but the media are quiet about this. As they are about the demonstrations taking place in Iraq.

Another danger for the US is the possible emergence of anti-imperialist governments in Tunisia and Egypt. Should this happen, Gaddafi would no longer be isolated and could renege on the agreements concluded with the West. Libya, Egypt, and Tunisia could unite to form an anti-imperialist bloc. With all the resources they have at their disposal, especially Gaddafi’s large foreign reserves, the three of them could become a major regional power – probably more important than Turkey.

GL&MC: Yet Gaddafi supported Ben Ali when the Tunisian people rebelled.

MH: That goes to show to what extent he is weak, isolated and out of touch with reality. But the changing balance of forces in the region could change matters. Gaddafi could shift his rifle to the other shoulder – it wouldn’t be for the first time.

GL&MC: How could the situation in Libya pan out?

MH: The western powers and the so-called opposition movement have rejected Chavez’s offer of mediation. This means that they are not interested in a peaceful solution to the conflict. But the effects of a NATO intervention would be disastrous.We have seen what that did to Kosovo or Afghanistan.

Moreover, military aggression could encourage Islamic groups to enter Libya who might be able to seize major arms caches there. Al Qaeda could infiltrate and turn Libya into a second Iraq. Besides, there are already armed groups in Niger that nobody has been able to control. Their influence could extend to Libya, Chad, Mali and Algeria.By preparing for military intervention, imperialism is in the process of opening the gates of Hell.

To conclude, the Libyan people deserve better than this opposition movement that is plunging the country into chaos. They need a real democratic movement to replace the Gaddafi regime and bring about social justice. In any case, the Libyans do not deserve military aggression. The retreating imperialist forces seem nevertheless to be preparing a counter-revolutionary offensive in the Arab World. Attacking Libya is their emergency solution. But they will be shooting themselves in the feet.

Grégoire Lalieu is an author associated with Investig’Action, a Brussels-based team of independent investigative journalists, directed by Michel Collon. Collon is a journalist, writer, and militant for peace. Read other articles by Grégoire Lalieu and Michel Collon, or visit Grégoire Lalieu and Michel Collon's website.

45 comments on this article so far ...

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  1. Don Hawkins said on March 20th, 2011 at 2:31am #

    Great read now it’s early so for me must decide what to wear today probably just the regular black suit with white shirt and black tie. 100.000 years or so and a few think hitting a ball into a hole starting from a few hundred yards away is fun. Maybe we missed something along the way and I see now why nuclear energy was very important to a few then again the 18th century was not so bad at least we know it can be done by the light of the moon. Oh anybody still finding the time to grow crops, food.

  2. 3bancan said on March 20th, 2011 at 2:31am #

    Michel Collon’s site has this information on the interviewee:
    Mohamed Hassan* est un spécialiste de la géopolitique et du monde arabe. Né à Addis Abeba (Ethiopie), il a participé aux mouvements d’étudiants dans la cadre de la révolution socialiste de 1974 dans son pays. Il a étudié les sciences politiques en Egypte avant de se spécialiser dans l’administration publique à Bruxelles. Diplomate pour son pays d’origine dans les années 90, il a travaillé à Washington, Pékin et Bruxelles. Co-auteur de L’Irak sous l’occupation (EPO, 2003), il a aussi participé à des ouvrages sur le nationalisme arabe et les mouvements islamiques, et sur le nationalisme flamand. C’est un des meilleurs connaisseurs contemporains du monde arabe et musulman.

    I find it curious that he sees “the imperialist forces” – especially the zionazified European ones – as “retreating”…

  3. Don Hawkins said on March 20th, 2011 at 3:11am #

    The next time if you do watch Glenn Beck visualize him one of the mouth pieces for the darkside in a regular black suit with white shirt and black tie and heck let’s really get the look add those rap around dark glasses. I like to call that look the preacher from hell look. Let’s just say he’s no Elmer Gantry.

  4. Don Hawkins said on March 20th, 2011 at 3:26am #

    On growing crop’s/food to me siting in an office or on the golf course sending out messages/orders to slaves doesn’t count the field the real deal I think they call it work getting your hands dirty and you sleep so much better don’t need pill’s/soma.

  5. MichaelKenny said on March 20th, 2011 at 5:57am #

    Not a bad analysis of Gadaffi once you strip away the comical, antiquated jargon! Europe, of course, is worried primarily about floods of illegal immigrants that Europe cannot cater for (Romanians come first!), which is why Louis Michel doesn’t care about Egypt or Bahrain. The immigrants are a real problem for Italy and Spain. France has departmental elections today and next Sunday, and Sarko is in deep trouble. Arab-bashing is always good for a few votes! The same is true of Belgium which hasn’t had a real government for as long as anyone can remember. Cameron wants to get his military cutbacks implemented and has to throw a bone, so to speak, to the Tory nasties and the military brass. Someone has just done a very skilful knife job on Guttenberg because he was becoming too enthusiastic about Afghanistan, so Merkel wants to avoid making the same mistake by getting involved in yet another unwinnable war. And so on. All this is indeed part of the “retreat” of the US and the impending fiasco in Libya will certainly accelerate that process. That that “retreat” should worry Israel’s friends, and that they should be most concerned about us “zionazibogrolls” in Europe, who are supposed to be just dying to die for Israel (as one would expect from Nazis!), is amusingly unsurprising.

  6. beverly said on March 20th, 2011 at 7:46am #

    What’s with the suspension of comments at the end of the month? Is this permanent? If so, it will be a big loss. It’s been great being able to comment on the articles posted as well as to read the comments of other readers. I’ll miss my fellow commenters!

  7. shabnam said on March 20th, 2011 at 12:09pm #

    {It would have been possible to abolish all discrimination in order to mobilise the population.}

    The majorities of the regional countries are not FREE from the colonial past, and are subjected to new form of colonial rule under the control of the West. How do you expect these countries solve every single problem where are mainly manmade forced upon them by the criminal west to strangulate their economy and foment a ‘color revolution’ for regime change.
    An old dirty game by the dominant power, “Divide and Rule”, is very much at play and is more sophisticated compare to the 20th century where lead to demise of the Ottoman Empire and created many microscopic states to put them against each other to keep the region under their control for YOUR interest.

    How do you expect Iran acts when the population in the southeast dominated by Baluchis or northwest occupied by the Kurds is being targeted by the West to be used in a destabilization and partition project funded by the Western governments for regime change, like Libya, to bring Iran under YOUR control? I am sure; every single Iranian patriarch would like the government do whatever it takes to bring stability to the country.
    Your fascist state with massive WMD at its disposal could not tolerate single riot by the oppressed population of colored people in Los Angles in early 1990s and at the first opportunity shot at them. You kill your population every day but your pseudo ‘left’ and the zionist media does not publicize it. However, when one person in Iran farts, then the phony left and the media uses this in a spin propaganda campaign against Iran. We have seen it ALL. They also use fake reporting to form public opinion against the targeted countries including Libya and Iran.

    You may say whatever you want while you are talking with an interviewer and having a cup of coffee or tea, however, you don’t understand what these countries are going through facing massive attacks from all sides support with your TAX $$$$$$.
    We are fed up with preaching. Why don’t you go into street and bring down the house of evil, WH, and arrest many war criminals and savages who bomb civilians every day in far away countries and kill toddlers and children in wedding parties and schools, but you continue your ‘normal’ life while shopping at VICTORIA’S SECRET to have a good time when darkness hit at night.

    {But the Libyan revolution’s biggest mistake was to have bet too heavily on its oil. It is human resources that are a country’s greatest wealth. You cannot succeed in a revolution if you do not develop national harmony, social justice and a fair distribution of wealth.}

    Human Development in Libya is highest in Africa and in the Arab countries of Persian Gulf.

    Human Development Index:
    Libya 0.755
    China 0.663, Russia 0.716, India 0.519, Gabon 0.648, Japan 0.884
    Turkey 0.683, Brazil 0.699, Venezuela 0.696, Egypt 0.620,
    Saudi Arabia 0.752, Colombia 0.689, Nigeria 0.423

  8. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 12:15pm #

    I wonder what other changes are planned for DV, along with the suspension of comments? Interesting that right as the zionists ramp up their war crimes against the Muslim world, DV decides to eliminate public contribution to their site. I hope they are not going the way of Online Journal.

  9. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 12:24pm #

    Arab League Slams Libya Attacks Amid Reports of Growing Civilian Toll Amr Moussa Insists Call for ‘No-Fly Zone’ Didn’t Mean Call for Bombardment

    by Jason Ditz, March 20, 2011

    “Having been instrumental in pushing the UN to approve the resolution authorizing the no-fly zone over Libya, the Arab League has found itself quickly regretting its Faustian bargain. Now, with reports of civilian casualties on the rise, they are condemning the massive air strikes by the US, France and Britain….”


    What the ziofascists are doing is no surprise. They are repeating the strategy they used on Serbia in 1998. It was clear from the beginning this is exactly what these 21st century nazis would do.

    (There is a lot of new info coming out right now but unfortunately DV is running extremely slow at the moment, for me, anyways, so I’ll have to wait till later to post it)

  10. shabnam said on March 20th, 2011 at 1:06pm #

    hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 12:15pm #

    {Interesting that right as the zionists ramp up their war crimes against the Muslim world, DV decides to eliminate public contribution to their site. }

    I have the same feelings.

  11. Hue Longer said on March 20th, 2011 at 2:39pm #

    The articles aren’t made by the comments…I’ll be able to share them much easier without them and if someone has anything interesting to say, they can as always, try submitting them.

  12. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 2:47pm #

    I see removing the comment section meets zionist approval here.

  13. commoner3 said on March 20th, 2011 at 3:16pm #

    Re: Hue Longer said on March 20th, 2011 at 2:39pm #

    Hue Longer wrote:
    The articles aren’t made by the comments…I’ll be able to share them much easier without them and if someone has anything interesting to say, they can as always, try submitting them.
    What kind of strange logic is that??!! How are the comments making the articles more difficulat for you to share ??!! Ver weird!!
    What is the reason for DV to stop publishing comments?? Is DV pressed for space or is it a form of censorship due to pressure from some “entities”??!!

  14. Don Hawkins said on March 20th, 2011 at 3:26pm #

    Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so. God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. Genesis

    and subdue it, it was very good, really

  15. Don Hawkins said on March 20th, 2011 at 3:33pm #

    Nymex Crude Future 103.05 1.98 1.96 18:09
    Nymex Henry Hub Future 4.18 0.02 0.41 18:09
    Gold 100oz Future (USD/t oz.) 1,425.00 8.90 0.63 18:08

    and it was good, In the beginning ……………………………….

  16. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 4:03pm #

    Looks like I’m not the only one making the connection of ziofascist/fascist aggression against Libya being a similar plan as their war crimes against Serbia:

    Obama’s Serbia-Solution for Libya; “Split the country and steal the oil”

    By Mike Whitney

    March 20, 2011


    “The Obama administration never would have launched a war on Libya if they didn’t have a puppet-in-waiting ready to take power as soon as the fighting ended. That puppet appears to be Mustafa Abdul Jalil, Gaddafi’s former justice minister. Jalil is presently the opposition leader of the Libyan National Transitional Council which oversees the insurgents from Al Bayda. This is not a grassroots movement that embraces the fundamental precepts of democratic government. It’s a clatter of rebels armed by the Egyptian military (with US approval) to topple the Gaddafi regime. Jalil has garnered the military support of the so-called “international community” despite the fact that peaceful protesters in Bahrain, Yemen and Saudi Arabia have been kicked to the curb. It’s just another example of the UN’s selective support for pro-democracy movements.

    It means that all of Libya’s resources lie in the eastern province which can be easily split-off Serbia-style with the support of foreign imperialists using their proxy armies and their “democracy promoting” puppets. This is what’s really at the heart of Obama’s “humanitarian intervention”, further Balkenization of the Middle East. It’s just more plunder disguised as magnanimity.”


    Unfortunately, like the interview with Mohammed Hassan, the roll of zionists/israel is ignored in the present aggression against Libya.

  17. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 4:26pm #

    Video: Farrakhan warns, advises Obama on Libya

    By News | Last updated: Mar 18, 2011 – 6:30:58 PM

    “Min. Farrakhan blasted Pres. Obama and Secy. Clinton for their arrogance in meddling in another sovereign nation’s affairs and publicly recommending regime change. He then instructed Americans to look beneath the surface to see who stands to benefit from the unrest and warned Pres. Obama to be careful of the words coming from advisors lobbying him to move in with military forces to depose Libya leader, Col. Gadhafi.”


    Hard hitting talk from Farrakhan. Interesting that Farrakhan warns that those attcking Libya now could easily push many of the opposition over to the side of the Libyan guv. Another man noted this recently as well:

    U.S.-led attack on Libya may force rebels to join forces with Gaddafi – expert

    11:38 20/03/2011


    “The military action launched by the United States and its allies against Libya may force rebels to join forces with Libya’s strongman Muammar Gaddafi, a military diplomat in the region told RIA Novosti over the phone on Sunday.

    The expert said that the air strikes were destroying civilian and economic facilities and the declared goals of creating a no-fly zone over Libya ran counter to the U.S.-led coalition’s real actions.”


    Oddly, rian doesn’t name the man in this version, an earlier one I read did.

  18. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 4:38pm #

    Greeks protest anti-Gaddafi military action in Libya

    Mar 21, 2011 01:20 Moscow Time

    “Athens, Greece, saw thousands of people hitting the streets in an anti-military march to protest the West’s involvement in Libya’s current situation.

    The action was organized by Greece’s communists. Chanting, “Out with the imperialists from Libya”, the demonstrators marched from the Parliament buildings to the US Embassy in Athens.

    Greece is yielding its navy bases and airports to house the military hardware of anti-Gaddafi coalition.”


    NYC Rally, Mon, Mar 21: The U.S. and France Are Bombing Africa– STOP THE ATTACK ON LIBYA NOW!


    43 St. & Seventh Avenue, New York City

    5 pm Monday, March 21


  19. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 5:35pm #

    The betrayal of the Libyan people perpetrated by the Russian guv of Medvedev/Putin, by refusing to block ziofascist aggression against Libya, is not going down in Russia without opposition:

    Communist leader slams Moscow’s passive stance on Libya

    18 March, 2011, 16:11

    “Head of Russia’s Communist party, Gennady Zyuganov, says Russia should have vetoed the resolution on Libya adopted by the UN Security Council.

    By refraining from voting on the document, the Russian administration “in fact backed NATO’s aggressive ambitions to impose their will everywhere on the globe, which now include Libya,” he believes.

    He accused the Russian leadership of “serving foreign interests” and contributing to the attempts to create “greater Middle East” subjected to the United States.

    Zyuganov believes that the Security Council resolution allows NATO to start a new punitive operation in Libya, which is, in his opinion, “poses a grave threat to Russia’s strategic interests in the region.”


    Russia’s Zhirinovsky urges Muslim world to support Gaddafi

    18:01 19/03/2011

    “LDPR turns to all the people of the Muslim countries and urges them to unite and show solidarity with Muammar Gaddafi. The leadership of these countries should make a joint stand against NATO’s military efforts in Libya,” a statement by Zhirinovsky said.

    “Do not ditch Libya face to face with the juggernaut of the North Atlantic bloc. Do not allow NATO to crush the democracy in Libya, especially with regard to the fact, that this country does not threaten anybody. Do not do the short-sighted oversea politicians’ bidding,” the LDPR leader said.

    The tumult in Libya should be brought to stop as any other Muslim country could face the same situation, Zhirinovsky said. “The West is aggressive and resolved. They have not drawn a lesson from the negative experience of military intervention to Afghanistan and Iraq.”


    In 1938, Europe appeased nazi aggression. The reasons were varied, but the outcome was inevitable. Give in to a bully and it only reinforces that bully’s desire for more. We are seeing the exact same thing now with those 5 countries on the u.n. security council caving to ziofascist pressure to allow the 21st century’s nazis to attack Libya. The people of those countries know better than to appease nazis, whether the 20th century’s version, or the 21st century’s version, but the leaders seem to think they can defy the odds, suck up to the ziofascists/fascists and somehow skip their turn on the chopping block. As what happened to Czechoslovakia in 1939 and what is happening to Libya now, show, kissing nazi arse only makes certain they will attack one.

  20. shabnam said on March 20th, 2011 at 6:49pm #

    { Gennady Zyuganov accused the Russian leadership of “serving foreign interests” and contributing to the attempts to create “greater Middle East” subjected to the United States.}

    This is exactly what I have been saying for sometimes. You have to include the CRIMINAL STATE OF CHINA & racist state of INDIA. Both states are cooperating with the United States since 9/11 against Muslims. All three states used Iran Card to enrich themselves and to obtain CONCESSIONS. India for her votes against IRAN was allowed to keep her illegal nuclear bomb making industry and received more economic concessions.

    Both China and Russia SHOULD HAVE VITOED THE RESOLUTION, but deliberately ‘stayed out’ to CLEAR THE WAY to please US/Israel. Russian official acted like a CLOWN when he said: t Russia is ‘against military action’ after the resolution was passed in order to FOOL PEOPLE.
    This foolish statement angered many people around the world because his foolish statement implies that he either did not read the resolution or did not understand it. He is, however, lying to please both sides not to lose economic concessions from either side.

    We hold China and India equally responsible for the massacre of people in Libya. People of the world must boycott Chinese and Indian goods.
    The Iranian people must boycott Chinese goods at once because China, Russia and India repeatedly voted with US against Iran and Libya to enrich themselves and help ‘greater Israel’ which is known as “New Middle East” based on ODED YINON PROTOCOL. Everyone should support Libya against these criminal states.

    Obama’s savage bombardment will destroy the fruit of Libyan’s sacrifices made during 20th century after defeating colonialism, into a garbage bin within a week of heavy bombing on request of a black president who is in the service of the Zionist lobby NOT American people.
    Majority of Americans are against the war in Libya.

  21. Hue Longer said on March 20th, 2011 at 7:32pm #


    Because though at times the comments relate to the article or debate that the article started, most are either way off topic, or violating logic to the point of looking intellectually dishonest- if not insane. The irony here of course is that just because this is true, doesn’t mean people should disregard the articles! Baby steps though, you know? If the emotional ranters here don’t understand ad hominem, it’s a safe bet that some we try to share these articles with won’t either. Even critically thinking intellectuals being presented a beautiful gift covered in dog shit might not care to look deeper.

    I did however enjoy many of the comments–even from those whom I often disagreed with or whose off topic rants I skimmed over.

    So yeah, the comments weren’t needed as much as the articles. While others may feel their being “censored” equals a conspiracy, I’ll keep reading the articles that attracted them here to begin with.

  22. Jonas Rand said on March 20th, 2011 at 8:19pm #

    Hayate, as an African American, I must tell you that Farrakhan is full of hate toward White people, all of them, as well as Jews, and doesn’t represent us as a whole. The doctrine of his “church” is not at all compatible with Islamic doctrine, and at one time (don’t know whether they still do) they said that Elijah Muhammad was the messenger of God. Farrakhan’s opinions do not even represent a substantial portion of the opinions of Black Americans. I, for one, think that he is vitriolic and megalomaniacal. Is that why he loves Gad-Daffy so much?

  23. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 8:22pm #

    Hue Longer said on March 20th, 2011 at 7:43pm #

    “hayate is a zionist troll who used to go under the name, Mebosa….he found it more effective to act like a paranoid fool chasing people away from the positions he attached to his character. Be careful of these slippery operatives…. They only seem to be complete fuckwits”

    Hue Longer said on March 20th, 2011 at 2:39pm #

    “The articles aren’t made by the comments…I’ll be able to share them much easier without them and if someone has anything interesting to say, they can as always, try submitting them.”

    The hypocrisy of these things never ceases to amaze me.

  24. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 8:25pm #

    Jonas Rand said on March 20th, 2011 at 8:19pm

    “Hayate, as an African American, I must tell you…”

    I used to live in oakland, ca, israeli, you really think that bs fools anyone?


  25. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 8:46pm #

    Hitlerites, Luftwaffe on the move


    by Pedro Porfirio


    “Before western powers invade Libya and get hold of their oil, pusillanimous leaders allow foreign intervention, since the uprising failed.

    The “civilians” subservient to the owners of the world display their “harmless” tanks. Since they failed, the great powers are going to send bullets by land, air and sea.

    The sad truth is that the world is in the hands of mediocre, incompetent, petty agents of economic interests, figures without shame, without commitments to their people, with not the least bit of public spirit or patriotism.

    These puppets of the invisible dictatorship of the Zionist matrix are such frivolous things that deal with the world as if it was meant to serve their personal ambitions, representing a rude farce of short-term, that want to leave with a bank account stuffed with gold dust, ensuring an easy life for upcoming generations and a corrupt environment of debauchery, according to the model of the leader of Italy, the maniac pervert premier who does not exempt playing with little girls.

    It is very easy for the rulers of these countries to decide to use their killing machines on weaker peoples. It will be difficult to determine how much each ruler pocketed to endorse the war intervention in Libya.

    This planned aggression is the height of dishonest manipulation of what actually exists in truth there in Arab North Africa.

    This civilian population is who? The crowd of generals and colonels who deserted with their arsenals of heavy weapons, tanks, planes and everything else that an army has the right to possess, the cannon fodder of war that were lured by promises of cash from Western powers? Want to check, go to Google images and search Libyan “rebels.”

    Why didn’t this same Security Council give a hoot about the killings in Bahrain and Yemen? In both countries, as in Egypt and Tunisia, the opponents are not armed. There, yes, was the slaughtering defenseless civilians with the help of foreign troops. And yet, as the monarchy of Bahrain and the ruler of Yemen are offered to drink by the bosses of oil, not the media nor the hypocritical rulers of the West move a finger to help the civilians there.

    They do not know, therefore, they are leading even more to further discredit and strip the vaunted “democratic” model. Democracy is what? Is it the rotation in power of surrogates of the same greedy private interests, all in the service of maintaining the perverse social pyramid, this subjection of the world to the Zionist hegemony that is central to the invisible dictatorship that rules the world?…”


  26. Jonas Rand said on March 20th, 2011 at 8:57pm #

    Wow, so I’m an Israeli now? How do you know more about my racial (or national) identity than I do? I have never even been to Palestine, and I’m not a Jew. I live in Las Vegas, Nevada. Say, what is your name, “Hayate”? Why are you anonymous? Are you, by any chance, part of “National Bolshevik” movement?

    When you were in Oakland, did most of the Black people you met love Farrakhan, and adulate over him or his ideas? I wouldn’t think so.

  27. Jonas Rand said on March 20th, 2011 at 9:02pm #

    Hue Longer said on March 20th, 2011 at 7:32pm #

    I agree 100% with Hue. If anyone wants to send me e-mail, even if it’s hate mail, use happydelsim(at)

    hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 8:22pm #

    “Hue Longer said on March 20th, 2011 at 7:43pm #

    “hayate is a zionist troll who used to go under the name, Mebosa….he found it more effective to act like a paranoid fool chasing people away from the positions he attached to his character. Be careful of these slippery operatives…. They only seem to be complete fuckwits””

    Oh, did he? Where at?

    For the record, I don’t think that hayate is mebosa.ritchie, but Hue Longer may know something I don’t.

  28. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 9:03pm #

    M K Bhadrakumar gives some background to the u.n. resolution 1973 war crime facilitation act, and the role of israel’s american colony, as well as describes the phony excuses China, Russia and India used to pretend opposition, while going along with the 21st century’s nazis:

    Kerry nudges Obama into North Africa

    By M K Bhadrakumar

    Mar 19, 2011


  29. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 9:13pm #

    As usual, al ciada and israel’s colonials work together arm in arm:

    To the Shores of Tripoli

    Blundering into Libya

    by Nebojsa Malic, March 19, 2011


    “Strange Bedfellows

    Media coverage from Libya has been confusing at best, and often contradictory. Air attacks that never happened, heavy fighting that was nothing of the sort, rebel advances that ended up being retreats without a shot fired — all in all there has been very little “news” from the shores of Tripoli, and a whole lot of propaganda. Also suspicious is the fact that, alone in all of North Africa and Arabia, the Libyan rebels have clamored for foreign help from the start.

    For his part, Colonel Gadhafi has maintained that the rebellion was actually orchestrated from the West, and that he was fighting both the Empire and al-Qaeda.

    A hint of confirmation could be found in a fawning portrait of rebel fighters in the March 13 Washington Post. One exemplary rebel interviewed by reporter Laila Fadel turns out to be a veteran of the Iraqi insurgency. One of his brothers blew himself up to kill U.S. Marines. Another is an al-Qaeda commander in Afghanistan. But “Abu Sultan” says he disapproves of his brother’s al-Qaeda ways, wants a “civilian government with justice, freedom, and a constitution,” and though he considers this “a Libyan fight” would very much like a no-fly zone and foreign intervention. Make of that what you will….”


  30. Hue Longer said on March 20th, 2011 at 9:15pm #


    I don’t know if or even think hayate is a zionist…I DO think he hasn’t an understanding of irony or hypocrisy and is doomed to always have the lessons given to him only benefit others

  31. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 10:02pm #

    March 20, 2011

    Libya: Obama’s Latest, AFRICOM’s First, NATO’s African War

    Rick Rozoff

    “Following similar developments in neighboring Tunisia and Egypt, anti-government protests began in Libya on February 15. On March 19 the U.S., France and Britain delivered air and cruise missile attacks against targets in Libya: 112 Tomahawk missile strikes from U.S. and British submarines and warships in the Mediterranean Sea and attacks by French warplanes on what were identified as government military vehicles on the ground.

    Twenty French Rafale and Mirage jet fighters took to the country’s skies and U.S. stealth bombers delivered 40 payloads to its main airfield.

    A Russian parliamentarian pointed out that the attack on Libya represented the fourth country targeted for armed assault – the fourth war launched – by the U.S. and its allies in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in 12 years: The current one, codenamed Operation Odyssey Dawn, and Operation Allied Force in Yugoslavia in 1999, Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan in 2001 and Operation Iraqi Freedom in Iraq in 2003. The beginning of the war against Libya occurred on the eighth anniversary of the attack on Iraq and five days before the twelfth anniversary of that against Yugoslavia.

    However, whereas it took several months for the U.S. and its NATO allies to selectively identify developments in Yugoslavia (Kosovo) and Iraq as crises requiring international attention before proclaiming them grounds for war, with Libya the process has been reduced to a month’s duration. The slaying of unarmed civilian protesters in Yemen and Bahrain has not evoked a comparable outcry and has not produced analogous military actions from Western military powers….”


  32. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 10:17pm #

    BREAKING NEWS: Libyan Sources Report Italian POWs Captured. Additional Coalition Jets Downed

    Qatar has joined the War

    by Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya

    March 20, 2011

    “Since the start of the civil war in Libya, the mainstream media has provided a biased and distorted picture of what is happening on the ground in Libya. In this regard, the mainstream media, rather than informing public opinion, is serving the war agenda.

    The French government has denied that any of its military jets have been downed during their attacks. Paris is withholding this news to prevent a surge in public demands that France withdraw from the war on Libya.

    Internal Libyan sources reported (unconfirmed) at 15:40 EST the capture of an Italian vessel and military personnel, who were detained. The Libyan government has also started supplying the Libyan population with food rations, medicine, and weapons to defend themselves.

    At about 18:20 EST, Libyan sources reported (unconfirmed) that additional coalition jets were downed. Two of these military jets have been identified as Qatari military planes.

    In a clear case of international double-standards, Qatar and the Gulf Cooperation Council, which are involved in supressing democracy, are now partners in the war against Libya.

    According to Libyan sources (unconfirmed), a total of five French jets have been shot down. Three of these attacking French jets were, according to the reports, shot down in Tripoli. The other two French military jets were shot down while attacking Sirt (Surt/Sirte).

    According to Libyan sources, the Libyan people are ready for a protracted war to defend their country against coalition attacks.”


    There is video of an aircraft being shot down over Benghazi making the rounds, but whose aircraft it was is not confirmed.

  33. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 10:29pm #

    When the zionists want something, it doesn’t matter if their quislings in the colonies are going against the views of the vast majority of the people in those colonies:

    March 18, 2011

    Large Opposition to Military Intervention in Libya

    “As President Obama prepares to speak this afternoon on the situation in Libya, a quick look at recent polls show Americans overwhelmingly do not support military intervention.

    A CNN/Opinion Research poll finds 74% believe the United States should “leave it to others” to resolve the situation in Libya.

    A Pew Research survey finds 65% think the United States doesn’t have the responsibility to do something about the fighting in Libya.

    A Fox News poll finds 65% oppose the U.S. military getting involved.”


  34. hayate said on March 20th, 2011 at 10:40pm #

    No to imperialist intervention in Libya!

    19 March 2011

    “The World Socialist Web Site categorically opposes any military intervention in Libya. The drive toward war, which was given the green light by the UN Security Council on Thursday, has nothing to do with the humanitarian pretexts offered up by the major powers. Rather, it represents the violent imperialist subjugation of a former colony.

    The bombing of Libya by French, British and American planes will not protect human life, but will transform the country into a battlefield with thousands of innocent victims. This is an imperialist war. Libya is an oppressed, former colonial country. The WSWS rejects fundamentally and in all circumstances military attacks by imperialist powers on such countries.

    Moreover, this war will take place without any democratic legitimacy. There is not the slightest indication that it is supported by the populations of the countries involved. Once again, huge sums are being spent on a war even as the same governments declare there is no money for social programs.”…


  35. Deadbeat said on March 20th, 2011 at 11:16pm #

    There’s a lot of discussion that this invasion of Libya is about “oil”. The fear of exposing Zionism in the U.S. is crippling. Since 2003 when Qadaffi permitted western companies to operate in Libya, it makes no sense that “corporations” would now want an invasion of Libya. But like good Nazis the pseudo-Left believes if they can repeat the same song and dance it becomes “truth”.

    Since the fall of Mubarak, the Zionists were yearning for Obama to take action. Obama and the rest of the Zionists stooges needed a “boogyman” and Libya is strategically positioned between Egypt and Tunisia for an invasion to overthrow Arab nationalism.

    It’s also been reported that Qaddafi is distributing arms amongst his population to resist the Zionist-influenced invasion. This is NOT an action that you’d expect if Qaddafi was unpopular. So the pseudo-Left and Chomskyites continue with their lies and deception just like their sabotaging of the anti-war movement and Nader Campaign in 2003-2004 that exposed them as the RACIST/ZIONISTS that they are.

    While it is disheartening to see DV ending reader’s contribution there are many ways to confront Captalism and RACIST/ZIONISM and new venues and new fronts will emerge to struggle against all forms of Zionist injustice.

  36. Deadbeat said on March 21st, 2011 at 2:27am #

    Jonas Rand writes …

    I am not a Jew – will you quit being morons, both you and (racist – yes I can prove it) Hayate? I AM black. Hayate I know for a fact is not, and you probably aren’t black either.

    You know NOTHING about the Black community Jonas. Blackness is MORE than just skin color.

  37. Don Hawkins said on March 21st, 2011 at 2:39am #

    Once again, huge sums are being spent on a war even as the same governments declare there is no money for social programs.”…

    Last night on CNN old Wolf was on and as he talked behind him was this strange picture it looked like a desert with red’s and brown’s in the atmosphere and I was waiting for the pale rider to come by am not kidding must have been a new kind of message. There was this picture of antiaircraft fire with tracers at night and a tree. I’ll bet if trees could talk just say silly human’s. So how are we fixed for resources here in the greatest nation on Earth? The king of coal some say all that stored energy so let’s subdue it or natural gas let’s subdue that in a safe way of course. How did that go, It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, two cities a tale. Because as we all know we must listen to the right people many hoaxes in the world today so for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only is the best way. I didn’t say forward but I can onward Christian solders as look how well it’s worked so far and the terrible things we have lost. Like what well maybe get in a big metal machine that uses stored energy in the form of fossil fuel’s subdued about a hundred years ago or so and drive on tar to say the golf course and enjoy the trees as we try and get the ball in the hole from a few hundred yards away to get away from what, fascinating if you really think about it. Has the decision been made to burn the last drop of stored energy? One way to go.

  38. Don Hawkins said on March 21st, 2011 at 3:11am #

    How does that song go it never rains in southern California. Really well watch the weather not climate the next few day’s. The moisture content in the atmosphere these day’s on the third planet from the Sun has changed just a little. I know to much knowledge much to scientific ok I’ll try and dumb myself down heck I’ll do it for the gipper I’ll do it for Fox New’s for CNN for CNBC I’ll do it for all the conservatives for humanity itself and the trees. Remember it makes plant’s grow better at least in southern California the next few day’s. In a mad world only the mad are sane. Just trying to belong maybe the republican party isn’t so bad after all and at this moment a vision of Berlin just came into mind a bar with people dancing and just having fun the thirty’s.

  39. Jonas Rand said on March 21st, 2011 at 3:22am #

    It was Deadbeat and Hayate who put words in my mouth about “popularity”. When I said that Farrakhan’s “opinions do not even represent a substantial portion of the opinions of Black Americans”, I meant the doctrine that the Nation of Islam promotes – which is racially charged, and the ideology that his most devout followers (i.e. NOI) promote. I never said anything about his popularity as a figure, and I never wrote the word “unpopular” in reference to Farrakhan. Then I said that personally, I find his beliefs despicable.

    There was nothing racist about calling Farrakhan racist. You failed to explain how it was racist, and indeed never even tried. Now of course Hayate and Deadbeat will agree with each other, and rule me out as everything except a racist. Fine. I’ll continue to read articles on DV, without having the morass of blather and moronic trolls. Sadly, some good commentary will be lost, but most of the comments were an eyesore and unconstructive.

    You are right that being Black has to do with community, and is not just about skin color. But a “Jewish identity” – which I don’t have – is connected to nothing less than religion and/or ancestry. I am neither a Zionist nor Jewish, and I never denied that some of Farrakhan’s ideas were not at least somewhat popular among Blacks.

    Incidentally, I like Jesse Jackson more than Louis Farrakhan – and he deserves to be remembered for more and much better things than calling NYC “Hymietown” – the continual re-laundering of which closely resembles nothing more than a nasty slander.

    It seems you’re right about Haim Saban, who I’ve never mentioned because I’ve never even heard of him before your posts about it, except for “hating Americans”. Being a Zionist doesn’t mean you “hate Americans”.

    Don’t live in an echo chamber, folks – use different sources of information from different perspectives. This is probably my final message to DV, before commenting is closed. And 3bancan/ByTheWay/tongoska(?) may use “typical zionazi” here, but on other sites uses “typical jewnazi”.

  40. Don Hawkins said on March 21st, 2011 at 4:59am #

    But there is another and greater distinction for which no truly natural or religious reason can be assigned, and that is, the distinction of men into KINGS and SUBJECTS. Male and female are the distinctions of nature, good and bad the distinctions of heaven; but how a race of men came into the world so exalted above the rest, and distinguished like some new species, is worth enquiring into, and whether they are the means of happiness or of misery to mankind.

    Common Sense by Thomas Paine
    February 14, 1776

    Thought’s of smoke signals this day in the modern age

  41. Hue Longer said on March 21st, 2011 at 6:21am #

    Now DB is black because it’s more than just skin color? commoner, forget my answer to your question and just read this bullshit.

  42. Hue Longer said on March 21st, 2011 at 6:30am #

    And for fuck’s sake, Don

    what are you going to to with your time?

  43. Don Hawkins said on March 21st, 2011 at 6:48am #

    Hue come on the best minds in history still trying to understand that one. What do you want make a great conspiracy theory and or mass psychosis.

    Only those who attempt the absurd will achieve the impossible. I think it’s in my basement… let me go upstairs and check. ~M.C. Escher

    I watched Oprah the other day and she had on this one man a designer talk about a mouth that never stopped moving and all very up to date, remember the movie Independent day when the one man said Oh crap.

  44. Max Shields said on March 21st, 2011 at 8:28am #

    Hue’s point is right on. This is a very interesting interview; and yet, as so frequently the case with DV comments, I doubt that it served as much more than a pretext for a tirade on irrelevant (or barely relevant) matters as regards the article.

  45. hayate said on March 21st, 2011 at 12:32pm #


    I suspect you are right about the reasons for regime change against Qaddafi being more politically zionist instead of just economically opportunistic. Oh, it will economically help ziofascism, inc. alright, but not the countries the zionists are using to fight their aggressive wars for them. The zionist is just a nazi who uses others to fight his wars for him.

    As for what rand says about Farrakhan being unpopular, that is simply untrue zionist propaganda. I used to believe all the Jewish zionist slander about Farrakhan, back in the 80?s before I knew better and naively got most of my info from zionist sources. When I moved back to oakland I surprised by the popularity of Farrakhan, but after a few conversations, I realised how much I had been lied to by those so-called left/progressive zionists. Since Farrakhan is anti-zionist, the s.w.a.r.m. slanders him incessantly (as usual), but among black people, Farrakhan is probably the most popular leader right now, and has been for the last 20 years. His opposition to ziofascism is a large part of that, given the racism promoted by the Jewish zionist run corporate media.