Rise in Unity to Resist Arizona’s Racist Law!

Thousands of U.S. troops made the ultimate sacrifice during WWII to help defeat a fascist scourge that cruelly forced Europeans of other than Aryan origin to wear special markings and carry identifying papers.

More recently, an incensed global community assisted Nelson Mandela and his courageous freedom fighters in abolishing a despised apartheid system infamous for the “pass books” that South African blacks always had to have in their possession.

Now, via the signature of Arizona’s Republican governor, police in that state, where children continue to recite a flag pledge that ends with “with liberty and justice for all,” will have the totalitarian authority to profile Hispanics or “foreign-looking” people, and demand to see their documentation, at arbitrary whim.

As a 13-year-old Latino citizen from Phoenix told the Associated Press, “It’s going to change our lives. We can’t walk to school anymore. We can’t be in the streets without the pigs thinking we’re illegal immigrants.”

The measure means that countless brown-skinned souls will be politically, legally and economically discriminated against, and effectively segregated.

Remarkably, this profoundly unconstitutional lurch toward tyranny will not be protested, in the least, by white Tea Party types who show up at rallies with holstered handguns and huge placards declaring “Don’t tread on me!”

Their only concern is the demented belief that freedom’s erosion in this nation comes from a duly-elected President they crazily see as being either a Kenyan by birth, a Muslim, a Marxist, or the anti-christ.

Stewing in unacknowledged racism, their prejudice poisonously floods the immigration issue. Totally absent from their understanding is this pivotal truth:

Nearly 200 million people work outside their countries of birth, and an equal number are migrants inside their own countries. Nativists blame immigrants for flat wages, scarce jobs, and our declining labor movement. However, the responsibility lies with corporations that launched an all-out assault on wages and unions in the 1970s — well before today’s wave of migration began…The IMF and World Bank reproduced this scenario around the world, driving down wages and worker rights in at least 90 countries under IMF ‘structural adjustment programs.’ Immigrants aren’t destroying the ‘blue collar middle class,’ corporations are. — Center for Labor Renewal Statement on Worker Migration

It’s in every wage-earning American’s best bread-and-butter interest to make common cause with all minorities to gain the pivotal strength that, alone, will give us the united power to curb monopolies, bust trusts, and end divisive hatreds so useful to those who constantly plunder Main Street to lavish Wall Street.

Terrorizing darker-skinned folks whose worst “crime” might be fleeing the poverty that global economic injustice perpetuates in their places of birth — to find a dubiously better life toiling from sun to sun in dusty Southwestern farm fields — is entirely wrong, and ultimately self-defeating.

It was Jesus who said, “As you do unto the least of these, so too you do unto me.”

And it was Martin Luther King who echoed an age-old axiom that liberty denied to some places chains around us all.

Absolute clarity, and coordinated protest, are now urgently required to reverse this alarming move that comprises the most shameful, dangerous assault on our national freedom since Japanese Americans were interned in concentration camps many decades ago.

Dennis Rahkonen, from Superior, Wisconsin, has been writing progressive commentary with a Heartland perspective for various outlets since the '60s. Read other articles by Dennis.

44 comments on this article so far ...

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  1. relrod said on April 26th, 2010 at 10:00am #

    “We can’t be in the streets without the pigs thinking we’re illegal immigrants.”

    Sorry, my 13 year old is NOT allowed to talk like this. This is ONE reason why we are where we are at right now.

    “It was Jesus who said, “As you do unto the least of these, so too you do unto me.”

    The progressive attempt to “regligiousize” this issue is begininning to fall on deaf ears. Read the book of Romans….as Christians we are to follow the rules of the land….period. There is a legal way to become a citizen….as Christians we are NOT supposed to support illegal criminals and progressive groups DO NOT establish our moral codes.

  2. Samhain3783 said on April 26th, 2010 at 11:39am #

    Ah good Relrod. So I’m assuming if they outlawed firearms and told you to report to an internment camp, you would do that? I mean, you ARE a Christian and you’re supposed to follow the law of the land. I’m supposing you would turn in your neighbors if they didn’t? In your own words, you’re “not supposed to support illegal criminals.” By the way, that’s a tautology.

    And since you’re such a biblical scholar, you should know that the book of Romans contradicts itself when it comes to the law. I think the passage you’re referring to is “[f]or it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous” but there is another passage which states “[t]herefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.”

  3. MichaelKenny said on April 26th, 2010 at 11:41am #

    “And then I go and spoil it by saying something stupid …” More precisely, “Europeans of other than Aryan origin” were never “forced to wear special markings and carry identifying papers”. The only people so “forced” were Jews. Nobody called “Rahkonen”, which is a Finnish, not Aryan, name were ever forced to do so. Ditto for Italians, Poles, Hungarians, Greeks and a whole host of other non-Aryan Europeans! What’s wrong with admitting that the Jews were the sole victims of that particular practice?
    The problem about launching an argticle with such utter nonsense is that readers tend to assume that the rest of the article is as bad as the first sentence!

  4. relrod said on April 26th, 2010 at 12:06pm #


    Your arrogance is palpable…your common sense is at best questionable. We have a problem with our union. You have no fix to the problem….only to crucify those who attempt to make a change under the (your) guise of political correctness. How noble (not).

    My point is this…..NO ONE determines my stance on this or any other political issue using Christianity as the platform. Whether I am a Christian is none of your business and when you or Jeremiah Wright attempts to put me in a box your political agenda is obvious and tiresome.

  5. JE said on April 26th, 2010 at 12:14pm #


    Did you just compare this law to the Holocaust and Apartheid? I realize rhetoric isn’t taught in most institutions of higher learning anymore but come on…that’s pure laziness.

    As for “Justice” a lot of pure would make the argument that if you come into this country illegally then it would be just to deport you. It’s like someone breaking and entering into your home and what you are saying is “well no that you’re in my home you might as well live here.”

    Now if you’re not for nation-states and don’t think property rights are important then articulate that because your current thread lacks cogency.

    Discrimination isn’t racism…and if the native and/or legal Latino community in AZ were concerned about it then they wouldn’t commingle with people who came to this country illegally.

    All I see is a smattering of facts leftists already know and apologetics. Sadly, you just come across a shill because well you are spot on when it comes to the contribution neoliberal policies have made to this problem you fail to admit these people still have culpability…the two aren’t mutually exclusive…

  6. observing said on April 26th, 2010 at 12:17pm #

    Your 13 year old is probably not in fear of getting “randomly” stopped by the police for his “papers”.

    As for the splitting of non-Aryan hairs, “First they came for the Jews…” the oppressors and slavers will eventually come for anyone they can convince the rest are “bad guys”.

    The “reason you are where you are now” is because a bunch of rich white guys think they have the “God given” right to tell everyone else on the planet how to live… or die. And a bunch of not-so-rich US white guys don’t get why they aren’t allowed to ride the gravy train anymore. But believe the rich white guys it is OK to blame any non-whites for crime, lost jobs and any other ills in their community. Goering was right. http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.asp

    “Religiousize”??!! Take the log out of your own eye… read Romans? Maybe to go through it and confirm your interpretation is as narrow as it seems. Nah, besides, Jesus was a socialist.

    Can we agree Zeus and Thor no longer hurl thunderbolts? Is the universe still balanced on the back of a turtle? How about those crystal spheres The Church insisted the planets rode on? Archeology, evolutionary and particle/relativity sciences have put paid to most Biblical “history and fact”, so how long before Jesus, Yaweh and Allah go the way of their “sacred” predecessors? Or have their last hur-RA… To quote Alf, “HAH, I kill me!”

    The archeological record shows Gods come and go but the privileged abusing their power at the expense of the masses goes on and on.

  7. relrod said on April 26th, 2010 at 12:33pm #

    “Your 13 year old is probably not in fear of getting “randomly” stopped by the police for his “papers”. ”

    If a 13 year old refers to police officers as PIGS chances are he should be in fear of being randomly stopped. I teach my son to respect the law…plain and simple.

    “The “reason you are where you are now” is because a bunch of rich white guys think they have the “God given” right to tell everyone else on the planet how to live… or die.”

    Whose the racist? Do you even know what color I am?

  8. lichen said on April 26th, 2010 at 12:49pm #

    Yes, the cops in Arizona are pigs; such as joe arpyo, a racist fascist reactionary scumbag who dehumanizes people because they are not of his own race. These racist laws in Arizona absolutely do need to be shut down; trying to make other races literally “illegal” is disgusting. Furthermore, you 100% don’t care about jobs unless you support hard laws that legislate full employment where everyone makes a living wage with benefits, paid vacations, etc in democratic workers cooperatives. To do that it is not necessary to criminalize NAFTA refugees and/or the indigenous migrants that have crossed the border for thousands of years before this pathetic country even existed.

  9. JE said on April 26th, 2010 at 12:59pm #

    No one is talking about the planet on this issue. That’s a red herring if ever there was one.

    We’re talking about the Sovereignty of the US and the rule of law. Ironically I imagine a great portion of illegal immigrants come to the US to escape the corruption Federalis and the Cartels. So they want benefits of the rule of law without actually respecting the rule of law itself.

    The fact remains the US still has a plurality of “white” peoiple and the country based on Majority Rule, Minority Rights. and if you can’t vote and you’re aren’t citizen you’re not even a minority…you’re just a shill the oligarchy that runs the US.

    If these people are really leftist politics as they claim (which they really are NOT) they go back to your native country (presumably Mexico in this case) and work on bringing down your corrupt gov’t (where were these principled leftists when Manual Louis Obrador had the election stolen from him?)

    Like most everything else in American Politics it’s about doing what you want to do and then justifying it afterward.

  10. JE said on April 26th, 2010 at 1:06pm #

    Making races literally illegal…hmm, funny I’ve read the law cover-to-cover and I didn’t catch that part? where is it?


    why does every idiot wingnut in the US equate the gov’t with the “country?” You’re a leftist (obviously) I would have thought your view would be a little more nuanced than those neanderthals (disappointing).

    I love my country and don’t see anything “pathetic” about it. I just hate it’s gov’t.

  11. bozh said on April 26th, 2010 at 1:12pm #

    The earliest ‘religion’ may be viewed as a science or first step in studying human life on the planet.
    First ‘religion’ may be deemed also as our first knowledge. The labels religion, science, or knowledge may be interchangeable.

    If we do not do this then we are splitting the knowledge or search for knowledge into the three kinds of yearning to know; thus separating one entity or one panhuman behavior into three different searches or yearning for knowledge.

    One cannot split asunder or dichotomise brain work into brain work [thinking-ideating] and nonbrain work.
    In effect, this is what all ‘religions’ are doing now as well as when they had been arising millennia ago.
    And thinking that my brain work is the only true and valid one for eternity simply declares that i am a human and u’r not.

    That is essentially how priests think and even say it. Is it any wonder that there is so much hate of islam and islamic hate of mosheism and christianity and vice versa?
    Religions deny that pious people think; i.e., having received knowledge from gods [a priori], and not directly, but via some chosen people.

    Btw, jesus was not socialist nor a just person. He had been quoted as saying that we shall always have poor among us. He, or the person who puts these words in his mouth, did not explain why the almighty wld be creating poverty. And not only poverty, but also wars, hatred, intolerance, oppression, and other ills.

    So that is religious science: it is ok to have poor people, wage war, oppress people, etc! Some knowledge, some science??? tnx

  12. lichen said on April 26th, 2010 at 1:47pm #

    Yes, you sound like a typical right wing nationalist, je. They call all hispanic people “illegals” and support racial profiling with this law. No human is illegal, this land doesn’t belong to you more than it does undocumented citizens. They should be given legal, quick paths to citizenship and capitalism should be overthrown so that we can all have good, democratic, living wage jobs; the end.

  13. Richard said on April 26th, 2010 at 5:10pm #

    The author’s website is not functioning, not coming up when I click on it. Can you, Dennis, send me your contact info? Or can someone? Thanks, Richard P.S. Certainly specifics aside, the outrage should be channeled so that there can be some effective results in protest. I’m at tosca.2010[at]yahoo.com

  14. JE said on April 26th, 2010 at 6:24pm #

    Who is they? The tea party idiots? I don’t even feel it’s necessary to address the tea party as an issue because “They” for the most part (unlike you I refuse to just generalize to every Tea Party Pooper because that sounds just as bad as what you’re accusing “them” of doing).

    Actually this land does kind of belong to me more than them because I payed for a piece of it and my great-grandfather immigrated to the US legally. Get it?

    Let’s suppose you were to get your way and a law were passed in congress giving amnesty to all “undocumented workers.” Okay. Now let’s suppose that the Tea Party fanatics find that law to be unjust and decide to form militias and remove them forcibly from this country. Would you be against such action. I have no doubt you would (as would I). But what I’m getting at is on what grounds would you be making your argument against such act. The rule of law. Either you are for the rule of law or you aren’t. It’s universalism ya know that thing that’s pretty much the main ethical tenet of justice.

    But you aren’t for real justice. You’re for some idealized fictitious justice that only applies to you’re side of the argument. It’s a bit like being for freedom of speech for people agree with.

  15. Don Hawkins said on April 26th, 2010 at 7:40pm #

    Let’s watch the Senate Subcommittee tomorrow and Goldman Sachs and all that free speech and the rule of law, idealized fictitious justice oh yes nothing but illusion. Money talk’s and talk’s and talk’s then walk’s.

  16. JE said on April 26th, 2010 at 7:58pm #

    Non Sequitor de jour?

    I thought we were talking about the AZ immigration law and how it’s like the Holocaust and Apartheid.

    I’m not the enemy my friend…the only point I’m trying to make is just because you want to radically change society doesn’t mean you have oppose everything about it. It’s like some kind of bizarre anti-naturalistic fallacy…Whatever is….ought not be.

  17. Don Hawkins said on April 26th, 2010 at 7:59pm #

    So JE no one is talking about the planet on this issue. That’s a red herring if ever there was one.

    A misleading clue; something used to divert attention from the real issue.

    From the former practice of drawing a smoked herring across the track to teach hounds not to be distracted from other scents.

    I can only imagine until November all the something’s used to divert attention from the real issues.

  18. lichen said on April 26th, 2010 at 8:02pm #

    Oh yes, the hubris of the US governments closing off of the border after they destroyed Mexico with Nafta relates very much so to the environment, because that wall causes environmental devastation to the beautiful ecosystems of the borderlands and threatens animal populations that also moved freely for thousands of years before a pathetic, disgusting nation wrongly decides it was theirs.

  19. JE said on April 26th, 2010 at 8:20pm #

    It’s something to divert attention from the TOPIC. If can’t make a cogent argument related to the topic of the AZ law the why bother?

    Ironically we’d probably agree on those other issues but that’s not what this article and this thread is about. I admittedly don’t agree with most leftists on this issue because I think they are surprisingly simple-minded on this issue. If you feel the need to have knee-jerk reaction to my views that’s fine. It just makes you look like one of the very reactionaries we both disdain.

    So Like I said before if La Raza and other left-leaning “immigrants” rights groups were true leftists they wouldn’t shill for the fascists, allowing free movement of labor to suppress wages. This is a much more pragmatic first step towards everyone earning a living wage in the US than some pie-in-the-sky notion that we are going to get a living wage law passed in this country.

    I realize most leftists are really weak in economics…they’re too busy theorizing about parecon to actually study how the existing economy functions but even you have to concede if a living wage law were passed tomorrow it would have devastating effects on the economy and the workers for whom you claim to care about so much.

  20. JE said on April 26th, 2010 at 8:38pm #


    still not following your argument but at least you are somewhat sticking to immigration.

    But you do sound like you belong in the politburo. What are you a Bolshevik? Who are YOU to tell ME what belongs to me?

    How about I come to your house tell you what belongs to you? Wait no you live on a Kibbutz I’m sure.

    I would never do that because I don’t presume to have that authority…but apparently you want to tell me the land I’ve work to own my entire life for doesn’t belong to me…who should it belong to? The State? You?

    You can’t be for direct democracy and be an authoritarian at the same time…

  21. lichen said on April 26th, 2010 at 10:18pm #

    Deluded racists living on land stolen from Mexico and native americans via blood are the ones who are illegal.

  22. JE said on April 26th, 2010 at 10:48pm #

    And Mexico stole that from the Aztecs who undoubtedly committed “ecocide” when they migrated across the Bearing Strait and killed the Wooley Mammoths and the Sabre tooth tigers who had no business evolving in the first place because that evolution probably caused the extinction of other species previously evolved species…

    So I guess based on your logic I am just a deluded illegal racist in a long line of deluded illegal racists…

    BTW where do you live? If it’s anywhere other than East Africa you are a deluded illegal racist living on some other culture’s land.

    In fact to prove you are a man of principle and not just a some pontificating hypocrite you should go give your computer to the nearest indigenous person you can find….

  23. Deadbeat said on April 26th, 2010 at 10:54pm #

    JE writes …

    Let’s suppose you were to get your way and a law were passed in congress giving amnesty to all “undocumented workers.” Okay. Now let’s suppose that the Tea Party fanatics find that law to be unjust and decide to form militias and remove them forcibly from this country. Would you be against such action. I have no doubt you would (as would I). But what I’m getting at is on what grounds would you be making your argument against such act. The rule of law. Either you are for the rule of law or you aren’t. It’s universalism ya know that thing that’s pretty much the main ethical tenet of justice.

    Remember that turning in a “runaway slave” was once the RULE OF LAW. Jim Crow was about “the rule of law”. Racism and Capitalism are about “the rule of law”. In a capitalist system laws are developed to “protect” private property and the capitalist class. This racist law is intended to do just that. Racism (including Zionism) and Capitalism are intended to do just that. This issue is not about your so-called “rule of law”. It is about “divide and conquer” which is exactly what you are hellbent about.

  24. Deadbeat said on April 27th, 2010 at 2:26am #

    JE stupefyingly writes …

    And Mexico stole that from the Aztecs

    WRONG. Mexico didn’t “steal” anything from the Aztecs. You better review history before writing nonsense here.

  25. mary said on April 27th, 2010 at 3:34am #

    And a dictionary and enclyclopaedia whilst (s)he’s getting out the history books.

    Bering Strait

    Woolly Mammoth

  26. mary said on April 27th, 2010 at 5:06am #

    Oh dear! That should have been encyclopædia.

  27. observing said on April 27th, 2010 at 6:46am #

    @ relrod:

    If the police and the legislators behind them are acting like “pigs”, then the term is accurate. Respect is earned, through the appropriate use of legitimate authority. The police-state operatives world wide perpetrate endless streams of immoral acts by merely “following orders” or “upholding the law”. History shows demanding identification based solely on some form of profiling is a police state tactic. The fact police officers are not protesting having to carry out this odious racist duty is telling in its own right.

    I don’t care what colour you are, there are racists and bigots of all shades, but not all hold political or economic power. If you disagree with my observation that US past and present governments, and the multinational corporations that pay for their campaigns, were/are largely run by and for rich white guys, then you see the political/economic world from a different vantage point than me.

    And if you’re holding up Obama as the Socratic flaw in the “rich white guy” logic, then I’ll balance that against the fact he’s a rich Black guy, and the % of coloured people holding office in the House and Senate do not reflect the general population demographic. If you want to see a colour majority, check your jails and military enlisted ranks…

    But enough, it’s obvious most ‘Murikans will hold onto their fading democratic myth until the troops come goose-stepping home.

    “Mission Accomplished”

  28. Samhain3783 said on April 27th, 2010 at 9:59am #

    >Your arrogance is palpable…your common sense is at best questionable. >We have a problem with our union. You have no fix to the >problem….only to crucify those who attempt to make a change under the >(your) guise of political correctness. How noble (not).
    >My point is this…..NO ONE determines my stance on this or any other >political issue using Christianity as the platform. Whether I am a >Christian is none of your business and when you or Jeremiah Wright >attempts to put me in a box your political agenda is obvious and >tiresome.

    Typical conservative response; ignore the fact that I eviscerated your stance, resort to ad hominem attacks, and bemoan how persecuted you are by the left. Burn that straw man. It doesn’t help your case.

  29. JE said on April 27th, 2010 at 11:45am #


    No you better review your history Mexico was a Spanish Nation. Not sure what history YOU go by but last I check Cortes still slaughtered a 100,000 Aztecs in 1521….now wear they mexicans or??? please be so kind as to school me on your version of “Mexican” history.

    But let’s address you weak argument comparing the obligation of civil disobedience for unjust laws to breaking the law for the sake of gainful employment and then justifying it as civil disobedience…oh wait I just did.

    And please don’t pretend to know what I’m about…it took you two posts just to answer me and you couldn’t do so without adding in an ad hominem attack…I doubt you even know what you’re about.

    Oh I’m sorry mary (does one capitalize a proper name?) I’ll be sure to take the extra time from now on just for you, okay?

    BTW, If you can’t make a contribution to the discussion why are you posting? Don’t you have something better to do than play the role of 6th Grade English Teacher on a political website? Guess not.

  30. duaner said on April 27th, 2010 at 2:17pm #

    Hi all. The ‘Mexica’ people were the ones living in the area we know as Mexico City when Cortez arrived. It’s not accurate to say that ‘Mexico stole’ anything ‘from the Aztecs’. Better to say that Spain took Mexico from the Aztecs. However, the territory was known as New Spain after the conquest, and was not formally named Mexico until 1821. That is if I’ve understood the Wiki article on the topic.

    Anyhow, what you guys are really on about here is whether or not it is a good idea for your police forces to ask people on the street for identification papers. Presumably, they would confine this activity to brown-skinned people, and no so much to white-skinned people. Although who knows, if they hear someone speaking French or something, the police might decide to check their papers on the off chance that they are illegally in the country.

    I can see how it might seem logical to stop ‘foreign-looking’ (brown) people, seeing as most of your illegal immigrants seem to be from Mexico. Not to get off the topic, but it would also make a certain kind of sense to have a separate line at airports for brown people – or at least anyone looking ‘overtly Arabic’, because generally it is Arabic people who are Muslims, and it’s usually Muslims who are terrorists, right?

    The problem I see this approach is that it deals with a symptom while ignoring the root cause. In the case of illegal immigration (a symptom), the root cause is that a lot of countries around the world really suck to live in. Is it America’s fault that so many countries around the world suck?

    Well, kinda. Read ‘Killing Hope’ by William Blum to get an idea of how America has been ‘active’ around the world since WW2. The title sort of says it all.

    So, if you accept that a lot of countries suck to live in, and if you further accept that America bears some responsibility for that (and I suppose a lot of you won’t accept that), you’ll next be asking what you can do to improve the situation. Well, first you have to identify what it is about America that makes it such a nasty country, domestically and internationally (assuming you accept that premise at all).

    It’s your corporations, man (you should say that with a California-surfer-stoner accent and a double-lungful of reefer). They are robbing you blind, and convincing you through their media puppets and captive politicians that it is fitting and proper that they should do so. To object to (or even describe) this state of affairs is unpatriotic, they will assure you.

    To more evenly distribute the wealth of America is to cripple the very spirit that makes you a great nation. To give someone a hand-out is to steal their motivation to strive, and to rob them of the pride of accomplishment. It is natural for one guy to rake in billions from the sale of resources that belong to you all – and your goal in life should be to be that guy, or get as close to being that guy as you can.

    It is this attitude of self-before-all, sociopathic selfishness that is ruining your people and destroying your land. So, please allow me to offer an alternative vision.

    The wealth of America belongs to all Americans, and should be fairly shared by all Americans. Not to say that the orderly should be paid as much as the brain surgeon, but that the disparity between your top earners and your bottom earners should not be anywerhe near as huge as it is. And this applies to the rest of the world, too.

    If some country decides to nationalize its resources and redistribute its wealth, the traditional response of America has been to invade or support a coup to oust the regime that dared to try and take back its land and/or resources. Seriously. I’m not making this up. You guys have played the role of the bad guy around the globe for much of your history – although you may dispute that it is wrong to interfere in the affairs of other nations for your own political/economic benefit, you can’t dispute that you have a history of doing just that.

    Maybe if you could reform your own way of doing things, make America a more humanistic (if not to say, gasp, socialist) country, you could wield some of your newfound credibility and influence to make places like Mexico shape up and follow your shining example. Then maybe Mexico might suck less, and the Mexicans would quit trying to sneak into your country. Just a thought.

  31. Deadbeat said on April 27th, 2010 at 2:37pm #

    JE you need to learn some history before spewing your nonsense here.

  32. Deadbeat said on April 27th, 2010 at 2:39pm #

    here’s the correct link

  33. JE said on April 27th, 2010 at 2:43pm #


    great post.

    look you make good points but I’m just not your cookie-cutter leftist. I’m NOT against discrimination in all facets of life. To me discrimination is not racism…discrimination is telling two unlike things apart. As much as I wish we lived in a colorblind society we do not. And whether it is Asiatic people bring bombs on planes or Mexica people violating the sovereignty of the United States, I think it appropriate to actually look examine things realistically. So I would go as far as saying we should segregate Muslims but obviously having professionals who can appropriately profile suspicious characters….

    I agree that it absolutely the US gov’t and the transnational corporations fault that Mexico is still a third world country (they are resource wealthy) but I don’t feel that allowing yourself to be a pawn for the transnationals by illegally coming to the US is the solution either…all the migrants are doing is helping bring the 3rd world to the US.

    I say this because to me it’s simple economics..you can’t have fully mobile capital and semi-mobile labor….that’s the WORST of both worlds.

    What I think the immigrant movement either fails or just plain does want to understand is it isn’t the elites that what them out the country. They want them here suppressing wages and these poeople while admittedly ignorant will never join a labor movement until they realize that illegal immigration was on a portion of the problem. And they’ll never realize that so long as they can blame illegal immigrants for their misfortune.

    But as for everything else I think you’re are spot on. But again I’ll like to see the specious movement that is just accepted hook, line, and sinker as lefitst to prove it in Mexico.

    Again where were they when Obrador needed them? Why aren’t they working with the Zapatistas….oh yeah that’s right because it isn’t about the movement it’s about the money….and like I said the Mexican are no better than we are…we are all Eichmanns, shills for the fascist elite.

  34. JE said on April 27th, 2010 at 2:53pm #

    So sorry Deadbeat I don’t see any history on that site…I do see propaganda…and please don’t pretend propaganda can only come from those you deem “unjust”

  35. JE said on April 27th, 2010 at 2:53pm #

    oh and if you don’t acknowledge that then you need pick up manufacturing consent and read at least twice…

  36. JE said on April 27th, 2010 at 3:22pm #

    LOL even their claim about Caral isn’t accurate…

    “Our earliest civilization of Caral is older than anything in Europe by about 2,000 years.”

    “Caral was inhabited between roughly 2600 BC and 2000 BC, enclosing an area of 66 hectares.”

    Really? so there was no civilization in Europe at ~600 BC? You’re right I guess I do need brush up on my history…

    It’s Ironic that this website really has a hard on for Charles C. Mann…who has no archeological credentials whatsoever and won’t even list his academic credentials on his website…what a scholar…Howard Zinn or Ward Churchill he is not….

  37. duaner said on April 27th, 2010 at 3:26pm #

    I have to say, that Mexica site is quite interesting on a number of levels. I think the indigenous people of the Americas (North, South, and Central) did get a pretty raw deal. However, my understanding is that this business of pushing someone out of their ancestral territory has been going on for a good part of human history. Not that that makes it right…

    Look at the Celtic people in Europe, for example. They pushed someone out (Iberians, picts?), and were in turn relegated to the fringes by the Germanic peoples. It’s only recently in history that the displacers, the dominant cultures (in our case, the Europeans) have come to admit that maybe pushing someone off their land isn’t ok. I take it as a positive sign that there is even a discussion on whether it is right to displace indigenous people.

    We’re not at the point where we’re saying, ‘Holy crap. S0rry. We’ll just be heading back to Europe now,’ and we’ll never get there. I was born in Canada. This is all I know. And besides, where in the hell in Europe should I go back to? I’m of Scots/German/Anglo/Irish/Norwegian descent, and although I admire some of the customs and cultures of Europe, I certainly wouldn’t feel at home there – assuming they’d have me.

    So, where do we go from here? We have the indigenous justifiably claiming that they were historically wronged and demanding reparations. We have the descendants of European immigrants acknowledging, at least in theory, the injustice. We have even tried some reparations, but how do you repay someone for a whole world?

    I’m thinking we need to go forward together – share with our indigenous people the wealth that our ancestors created/extracted from the land, invite them to join us on our journey to glory (or extinction). Hell, we may yet have something to learn from them, if only we would admit it…

    But that’s a bit off topic. I have to agree with JE that when you sneak across a border, you have broken a law (although to an indigenous person, maybe borders declared by European immigrant/colonizers doesn’t mean so much). Further, I agree that the presence of undocumented immigrants in the workforce can have a depressing effect on wages. And, much as you might like to, allowing uncontrolled access to your country is probably not wise – if you let everyone from everywhere come anytime, how do you keep it from devolving into absolute chaos?

    So the question is, what do you do with an undocumented immigrant once you find one? Consider making him a citizen, I say. You could fine his country of origin, I think, for expenses you will incur in the naturalization process. Who would say ‘no’ to you guys, eh? By making him a citizen you bring him into the official workforce, hopefully diminishing his negative impact on wages somewhat, if not entirely. And you can tax his hide, too, and recoup some of your costs.

    And yes, I’m feeding off the corporate teat too. This is my rebellion. I just hope no one notices…

  38. lichen said on April 27th, 2010 at 8:46pm #

    It is the rich white business owners and the corporations that exploit the labor of immigrants and us all; they are the criminals; they should be locked up and there should be hard laws that legislate full employment in democratic workers cooperatives where everyone makes an equal, living wage; that will solve the problem of labor forever, while criminalizing poor economic refugees who above all don’t want to starve to death (and if someone flees a place where they were starving to death, you can’t expect them to focus their minds on high political principals or the laws of a rogue criminal murderous nation like the US) will solve nothing but merely preserve the poverty conditions of americans who live on stolen land. That, and a shift in US foreign policy and tearing up Nafta, ending the drug war…is a much better solution than whipping up racial tensions.

  39. JE said on April 27th, 2010 at 9:48pm #


    As an anrcho-syndicalist I can dig co-ops but you can go from A to Z when you’ve got a powerful highly organized elite that is bend on enslaving the rest of the human race.

    Step one has got be getting our people unplugged from this matrix of fascism and teach them to actually think for themselves. It’s easy to take for granted that most people on dissident websites actually are independent thinkers an forget that we are in the vast vast minority…

    anyway I do agree with you 99.9%. but as far as I’m concerned unorganized, “undocumented” workers crossing the border is akin to scabs crossing the picket lines…it’s a myopic solution to their problems at the expense of augmenting our own….and while their actions are understandable they aren’t laudable…

  40. JE said on April 27th, 2010 at 10:02pm #


    I’m not saying I’m not for indigenous peoples right of movement persay. I’m saying under the current nation-state system it isn’t in the best interest of either party. One day I hope that we’ll live in a completely decentralized hemisphere with free movement of labor and bottom-up control of resources, production, etc… but that isn’t going to happen if the left doesn’t stop playing checkers and start playing chess…and considering there only one example in all of human history (Spain) of there being achieved what the anti-authoritarian left wants to achieve we have a lot of work to do…take the US…we have I believe 458 billionaires and 3 million millionaires…that’s quite a few powerful and highly motivated people who are highly invested in protecting the status quo. Add to that the fact that every poor wingnut who thinks he or she is the next Horatio Algiers protagonist and how easily everyone in between can be bought off with an Ipod and a jet ski and things look incredibly bleak….

  41. bozh said on April 28th, 2010 at 8:07am #

    Recorded history tell us that some of the first peoples who migrated to another homeland were scythians and cimmerians.Thse peoples have inhabited the vast steppes e. of the black sea.
    Scythians landed ca 2.8k yrs in today’s polish areas; while cimmerians reached thru balkans italy and austria. At that time thracian from w. steppes migrated to greece.
    Historians do report ab scythians conquering and pushing out turkmen of turkmenistan to go on attacking assyria.
    As for other migrating or invading peoples like slavs, germanics, balts, visigoths, franks, magyars, bulgars, vandals et al there is no reports of genocide or expulsion of indigenes.
    Invading bulgars were entirely assimilated by slavs. Magyars also melted with slavic peoples.
    S. slavs, according to historians, came to balkans at invitation of bysantine emperor.
    It shld be noted that the world’s pop ca. 3k yrs ago may have not exceeded more than 100 mn. tnx

  42. JE said on April 28th, 2010 at 12:41pm #


    lol I’ve been studying India in my limited spare time recently and I was watching “The Story of India” by the BBC part two last night as a lay in bed and that’s the exact estimate they gave as well…

    I DO believe indigenous populations deserve reparations…from the US, Spanish, Portuguese, French, Dutch, and British gov’t. I just don’t think that’s going to be achieve by a omplete rejection of the white man’s society…why?

    It’s just the same as it is for African American reparations…for example, I’m half Slovak and Half Irish…Neither side of my family was in the United States until the 1910s. How did I contribute to 400 years of oppression and genocide of the indigenous people of this hemisphere? Shit my great grandfather was a coal miner and involved in radical politics in the 30s…both he and my grandfather died of lung cancer from working in those mines….again I ask how did my family contribute?

    Now I’m fairly certain that’s how most descendants of Eastern European and late western european immigrants feel about the issue….

    Ergo, it would be better to get us on your side. I think it would be an easy sell since most of our families were exploited and oppressed when we got here as well…

  43. bozh said on April 28th, 2010 at 1:40pm #

    JE, thanks for ur comment. I am from croatia. I am an admixture of slavs and the old roman pop from adriatic walled towns. The roman pop in the coastal twns was probably much illyrian.

    I shld have mentioned the fact that prior to the rise and spread of ‘religions’ [a certain knowledge or science] migrating-immigrating ethnoses have not engaged even in warfare let alone expulsion or mass murder.

    There was enough room for everyone and newcomers probably even welcomed.

    In connection to ‘religions’, it cld be noted that red people of americas also had ‘religions’ but did not know it or had been persuaded by mad christian clergy that they were pagans and irreligious.
    Foisting on them the idea that european science-knowledge was vastly superior to theirs.

    Not that knowing, that it wasn’t so, wld have prevented their slaughter- unless they wld have united and sought help from, let’s say, china or india, russia and thus at least attempted to drive newcomers to sea.

    It was also possible that indigenous elders have not expected to lose almost all of their lands and people.
    Had they, they wld have sought unity of all indigenous ethnoses. Or have they? tnx

  44. JE said on April 28th, 2010 at 1:54pm #


    great post.

    seems like it’s always been divide and conquer…now it’s just class warfare instead of martial warfare…