Life in the Bubble: At Home in the Israeli Settler State

Given my Judeo-Christian roots, I’ve long wanted to visit “The Holy Land.” The US-supported Israeli attack on Gaza this past winter lent urgency to that longing. This spring I joined a delegation going to Israel and the West Bank of the Israeli-Occupied Palestinian Territories. Altogether I spent a month experiencing those tense and militarized lands.

What most surprised me on this tour was how at home I felt – not in the West Bank, but in Israel. Except for signs in Hebrew, things often seemed so “American” that it was like we were in the 51st state. For example, even in the Arab quarters of Israeli cities, many non-Arab Israelis dress with an immodesty (pleasing to my male, westernized eye) that surely offends the indigenous Muslim people they live among.

But this at-home feeling went beyond appearances. It was in the attitudes. The non-activist Israelis I met reminded me of many folks back in the US. Here were nice, hospitable, English-speaking people who – just as in the US – live in what I call the “Bubble.” Colonizing and nationalizing our minds, the Bubble is spun by our governments and mainstream media. It narrows our horizons, drowns our dissent, stifles the voices of the voiceless. Distracting and trivializing, the Bubble shelters us from others’ pain.

The non-activist Jewish Israelis I met seemed oblivious to – or were quick to rationalize – how predatory their military and the Israeli settlers they protect were being in the Occupied Territories. They took for granted the great theft of indigenous Palestinian land supported with their taxes (and with $3 billion a year of our taxes). After centuries of inhabiting what has become Israel proper, in recent decades Palestinians have been either pushed into exile or relegated by force to the caged reservations and “Bantustans” of Gaza and the West Bank. Israeli scholar Ilan Pappé calls this historical process “ethnic cleansing.”


The fear that some Israelis feel regarding Palestinians mirrors the fear some US whites feel toward people of color. These Israelis also were quick to blame the victim and to shudder at the “other.”

My sense is that these good people had little idea how Israel was economically strangling Palestine. Or that the (much publicized) Palestinian terrorism perpetrated on Israelis was a fraction of the (inadequately publicized) episodic terrorism of the Israeli Air Force and the daily systemic violence that the Israeli Defense Force, the IDF, perpetrates on Palestinians. (One Jewish Israeli woman referred to the protracted aerial bombing of Gaza, killing 900 civilians, as an “incident.”)

Those Other Settler States

I was prepared for what I saw in Israel/Palestine thanks to my knowing what European settlers did to First Nations people in what became the United States. The five or six weeks I spent back in the early eighties in South Africa was also good prep. There too I was struck by how at home I felt. White South Africa was also a 51st state – one then backed by the US government.

In Johannesburg, the commercial and government center, many of the affluent white minority lived in gated communities while by law blacks lived in the grim sprawling Soweto ghetto – whose few roads in and out were controlled by the South African Defense Force.

The South Africa I experienced was legally and physically divided by ethnicity and skin color. “Divided,” though, doesn’t begin to acknowledge the stark disparity of wealth, power and opportunity.

In Israel – and in the US – there are similar disparities, the product of similar apartheids. (Another thing that surprised me, in both Israel and Palestine, were the legions of young male and female Israeli soldiers…many casually toting automatic weapons.)

The US, South Africa, Israel: all three are/were expansionist “settler states.” All three have been populated by land-hungry Judeo-Christian Europeans. These outlanders arrived with far more capital and political and military backing than the indigenous people whose land they coveted ? and, by hook or by crook, eventually confiscated…or are now bent on confiscating.

Our delegation spent a week in the occupied West Bank. We passed through the Separation Wall, the Berlin-like barrier dividing Israel from its hapless – but stubborn and resisting – colony. The thing to note about the Wall, four times the height of a man, is that only 20% of it is built on the Green Line, the internationally recognized border between Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

The Israelis built most of the Wall well inside the West Bank on inhabited or cultivated Palestinian land – thereby seizing more Palestinian territory. That land grab is part of achieving “facts on the ground” ASAP before some “peace process” forces the Israelis to stop multiplying their (illegal) settlements throughout the West Bank.

The Last Surprise…Sort Of

In the West Bank I was also surprised – or rather would have been if I hadn’t already read Anna Baltzer’s Witness in Palestine – by all the military roadblocks. As privileged foreigners, the Israeli soldiers waved our vehicles on. But these same soldiers might hold up Palestinians for hours at a time, or delay market-bound Palestinian produce until it rots.

Like the Wall, most of the roadblocks aren’t at the Green Line, but are sprinkled all over the West Bank. They strangulate Palestinian movement, both personal and commercial, within their own territory. They fragment the West Bank, undermining its commerce, leashing its people, generating resentment.

The roadblocks seem intended to ratchet up daily misery. Maybe even more Palestinians will simply pack up and flee. The goal: to transform the West Bank (in the words of the old Zionist canard) into “a land without people for a people without land.”



One way I’ve come to visualize the Occupation is to imagine the indigenous Onondaga Nation here in Onondaga County (NY), a Nation that white settlers long ago reduced to a fraction of its former territory. But to make the situations more comparable, suppose a 25-foot wall separated the Onondagas from the surrounding white-controlled county. Imagine that the Onondagas risked being shot from sniper towers or detained for months without trial if they somehow passed thru the wall without a permit. Imagine further that within the Onondaga Nation there were numerous militarized roadblocks cutting Onondagas off from their neighbors or their crops. Such a bizarre scenario would be a microcosm of the occupied West Bank.

Ed served 14 months in federal prisons for his civil resistance against the SOA. More recently he has been one of the “Hancock 2,” the “Hancock 15,” the “Hancock 33,” and the “Hancock 38.” Reach him at: Read other articles by Ed.

31 comments on this article so far ...

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  1. mary said on August 3rd, 2009 at 9:10am #

    Thanks for this article. I thought I was seeing double as I had just read it from a link on medialens then saw it here when I switched over. Just hope the trolls don’t descend.

  2. Ismail Zayid said on August 3rd, 2009 at 10:42am #

    Ed Kinane describes accurately the racist Israeli practices used in the process of dispossession of the Palestinian people and the theft of their land. The description of these policies and comparing them to the Apartheid system in South Africa is confirmed by renowned South Africans, like Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela, amongst others:
    “I’ve been very distressed in my visit to the Holy Land; it reminded me so much of what happened to us blacks in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about….” [Arcchbishop Desmond Tutu}

  3. David said on August 3rd, 2009 at 11:23am #

    All in all, a good article. One quibble however – Mr. Kinane states:
    “My sense is that these good people had little idea how Israel was economically strangling Palestine. Or that the (much publicized) Palestinian terrorism perpetrated on Israelis was a fraction of the (inadequately publicized) episodic terrorism of the Israeli Air Force and the daily systemic violence that the Israeli Defense Force, the IDF, perpetrates against Palestinians. (One Jewish Israeli woman referred to the protracted aerial bombing of Gaza, killing 900 civilians, as an “incident.”)”

    I disagree. Israeli Jews have easy access to the Internet, the BBC, Al Jazeera etc. They know full well the horrors being perpetrated against the native Palestinians in their name. The simple truth – common to those who live in “bubbles” – is that with rare exception, they don’t give a damn. Such is the inevitable nature of an apartheid state founded by thieves, thugs, murderers and liars.

  4. Hatuxka said on August 3rd, 2009 at 12:30pm #

    Mebosa Ritchie’s attempt to make something like Haick’s achievements sound like a valid justification of Israel and thus it’s attendant violations of human rights, committing of war crimes, dispossession of Palestinians, racism, and ruthless terror bombing of Gaza and before that Lebanon and many other atrocities is both inane and obscene.

  5. simplypeyton said on August 3rd, 2009 at 2:03pm #

    Typical Zionist response. If one questions the motives of Israel, then one must be an anti-Semite. Israel was founded by terrorists and continues to be run by them.

  6. David said on August 3rd, 2009 at 2:18pm #

    You wrote: “He should have talked to one of us living in Judea and Samaria.” I assume you meant the illegally and belligerently occupied West Bank as well as illegally and belligerently occupied East Jerusalem, including its illegally extended boundaries. Face it , your racist enterprise in Palestine/Canaan predicated on the ethnic-cleansing of its native Palestinian/Canaanite inhabitants is doomed. Israel is the western world’s (including the US) number one geopolitical liability. As De Gaulle correctly predicted and the thrust of demographics confirms, you and your racist ilk “will drown in a sea of Arabs.” Toynbee hit the nail on the head: “Israel is an historical anachronism.” No wonder nearly one million Israeli Jews have fled and immigration has all but dried up. Palestine/Canaan has known many occupiers. The zionist occupation will be the shortest.

  7. jon s said on August 4th, 2009 at 3:32am #

    Where has your vicious hatred come from? Israel was founded by “thieves, thugs, murderers and liars” ? That’s how you describe Jews who fled persecution in Russia, Jews who trekked through the desert from Yemen, Jews who survived the Nazi camps, together with native-born Jews, and many others, to return to their ancestral homeland? We are not “occupiers” not foreigners or aliens in this country. Sorry to disappoint you: Israel is not going away.
    The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is tragic, complex , and ultimately can be solved, or at least mitigated, through the 2-state solution.

  8. Mulga Mumblebrain said on August 4th, 2009 at 4:41am #

    jon, David’s anger comes from Israeli actions, over sixty brutal, sadistic, cruel and endlessly treacherous years. As I’ve often said, but as you ignore with your vilification of ‘anti-Semite’, not all Israeli Jews or diaspora Jews are ‘thugs. murderers or liars’ but an awful lot certainly are. To condemn any group in its entirety, no matter how vile the behaviour of a large number, or indeed of a majority, of its people, or to hate any individual solely on the basis of their membership of a certain group, is racism, or sectarian hatred or xenophobia, and as well as being morally base is deeply stupid. But to label everyone who criticises evil acts as a bigot, because you secretly support them and pretend otherwise owing to the fact that these evil acts are committed by your group, your tribe, is simply vilification. Human justice, and right conduct must be universal, not dependent on race or tribe, or they become a cynical and vicious sham.

  9. Don Hawkins said on August 4th, 2009 at 4:57am #

    Well said Mulga

  10. Annie Ladysmith said on August 4th, 2009 at 5:46am #

    What many people don’t know is that Israel, with US equipment and ‘advisors’, had a little genocide going on in the 50’s against the Sephardic jews of mediterean and middle east heritage.
    Small school children were segregated from there clases and treated to deadly radiation doses to their little heads. 6000 died never to grow up to breed and thereby pollute the ‘European’ Jews. Any that didn’t die within a few years, had many terrible health issues which i’m sure rendered them from breeding also. I believe a remnant of survivers still exist to this day as a testimony to this terrible racist war against innocent children.

  11. jon s said on August 4th, 2009 at 7:54am #

    Jews are not better, or worse, than other people. To believe otherwise is, by definition, racism. Racist hatred directed at Jews is known as Anti-Semitism. Anyone who reads these pages can see that people such as Mulga fit the definition.
    Annie- if you really believe that stuff you’re both an Anti-Semite and a moron.

  12. mebosa ritchie said on August 4th, 2009 at 8:22am #

    jon–you’re a good person to believe that the jew haters will stick at a 2 state solution.
    there was a 2 state solution in 1919–rejected by the arabs
    there was a 2 state solution in 1947–rejected by the arabs
    there was a 2 state solution in 1994–rejected by the arabs
    there was a 2 state solution in 2000 camp david–rejected by the arabs
    obama is trying again–already rejected by the arabs
    the arabs want their own state AND for 7 million”refugees” to return to israel causing the end of israel as a jewish state
    it ain’t gonna happen but it won’t stop them trying

  13. Don Hawkins said on August 4th, 2009 at 8:31am #

    What we are seeing is the hate on all sides. The myths the lies are becoming more clear. Unless some cool smart minds can face these problems with reason and start telling people the truth not a good ending. Pitting one side against another for profit or hate again the story doesn’t end well. Granted the truth to many would be a rather big shock at first as not heard for many years if ever. It’s going to happen anyway much better to start now. There is still time and man not easy but boring it will not be. It always’ amazes me to see just stuck on stupid because reason and imagination and hard work and sacrifice is to hard. Talk about boring.

  14. David said on August 4th, 2009 at 1:54pm #

    My description of those who founded Israel as “thieves, thugs, murderers and liars” is in reference to David Ben-Gurion (real name David Gruen) and other Ashkenazi Jews (primarily from Russia, Poland and Central Europe) who signed the document declaring the state of Israel on May 15/48. If memory serves, only one of them was of Middle Eastern origin – from Yemen (whose ancestors converted to Judaism about 200 BCE.) I also remind Jon that when he states that Jews were returning to “their ancestral homeland, ” (a “homeland” that only lasted 72 years) he is apparently forgetting that as anthropologists have long since declared, today’s Palestinians are descendants of the Canannites and can trace their presence in the land back 9,000 years. Indeed, perhaps if Herodotus (the “father of history”) and his fellow Greek historians had not referred to the region between the Jordan River and the Med. Sea as Palestine in the 5th century BCE, Palestinians would still be known as Canannites. Also, to quote Hanan Ashrawi, “God is not a real estate agent.” Those who believe that foreign Jews had/have a “God given right” to pour en masse into Palestine and expel the native Palestinian/Canaanites are racists and must also be of the view that God is a racist as well, i.e., God has no problem with Palestinians being dispossessed, brutalized, occupied, murdered, humiliated etc. by Jews. What patent nonsense!!! Thankfully, more and more Jews everywhere are dissassociating themselves from this fascistic drivel.

    Mebosa Ritchie: You demonstrate an appalling and inexcusable ignorance of history. Prior to the 1947 UNGA Partition Plan (Res. 181),
    neither the Balfour Declaration (Nov. 2, 1917) nor resolutions passed by the League of Nations (e.g., terms of the British Mandate) or its successor, the United Nations proposed a “two state” solution for Palestine. I also remind you that UNGA Res. 181 had no status in law and was recommendatory only. It was also grossly unfair to the indigenous Palestinians and hence, unworkable – so much so that at the behest of Truman, the UNGA was in the process of shelving it in favour of a UN Trusteeship for Palestine when Ben-Gurion/Gruen et al. declared the state of Israel. It would seem that you are also unaware that between passage of UNGA Res. 181 (Nov. 29/47) and the declaration of the state of Israel, Jewish militias had already expelled over 300,000 Palestinians and were continuing to do so. This is what led to the intervention of outnumbered and outgunned Arab state armies into Palestine. During the ensuing war Israel’s forces defeated the Arab armies, expelled a further 500,000 Palestinians, demolished about 450 of their towns and villages and occupied 78% of Palestine. As for your contention that the Palestinians turned down a “two state” solution at Camp David 2000, get to the history books and learn what really happened. Arafat was not offered a real state. He was offered bantustans under Israel’s boot. You are apparently not aware that excluded from the so-called “generous offer” were huge areas of the West Bank that Israel has illegally incorporated into the boundaries of occupied East Jerusalem and continues to do so.

    The inescapable truths are: Israel is the occupier, Palestinians are the occupied; Israel is the ethnic-cleanser, Palestinians are the dispossessed; Israel is the oppressor, Palestinians are the oppressed; Palestinians have international law on their side, Israel is a gross violator of international law; Palestinians have the moral and legal right to resist; Palestinians have time and demographics on their side and will emerge victorious, leading eventually to the inevitable and only real solution to the conflict: one democratic secular state. The handwriting is on the wall. READ IT!!!

  15. bozhidar balkas vancouver said on August 4th, 2009 at 2:55pm #

    mebosa, with respect,
    i did not state that the label “jew hater” is a proper label for what goes on in sane peoples’ minds regarding what they say about ‘jews’.

    sane person wld never condemn a ‘jew’; only what a ‘jew’ does!
    and if a ‘jew’ is first of all a human being and, thus, on equal footing with every other human being, no problem arises of whatever kind.

    the problem will will always arise if one’s “jewishness”; i.e., his lore/culture/ cult comes in importance ahead of his humaness.
    a person who considers self first of all jehovah’s witness, rejects not only one’s ethnicity but also one’s humanity.
    but jehovahs witnessses are not feared/hated as much as ‘jews’ in the main because they do not consider selves as supranatural beings as ‘jews’ do.

    even nazis, as bad as they were, did not assert that germans were supranatural; just superior. And only slavs, gypsies., an dother peoples with ‘tainted’ skin.

    yes insanity, whether nazistic or talmudic/mosheic is to be feared and hated. Good news is, it will be destroyed, thank my devil! tnx

  16. mebosa ritchie said on August 4th, 2009 at 3:10pm #

    there you go david
    from the democratic secular state of gaza
    we pay for their food whilst they waste money on making movies

    First Hamas-made movie begins Gaza Strip run

    By Nidal Al Mughrabi
    GAZA – The audience in the Gaza Strip clapped and cheered as the actor delivered the movie’s most memorable line.

    “To kill Israeli soldiers is to worship God.” “Imad Aqel”, which had its premiere on Saturday, is the first feature film produced by the Islamist Hamas movement and the title is the name of a Palestinian fighter whom Israel held accountable for the deaths of 13 soldiers and settlers.

    In accordance with strict Muslim tradition, men and women sat in separate sections of the theatre to view what Hamas officials termed the “Cinema of Resistance”, referring to what it describes as a fight against Israeli occupation.

    “Imad Aqel” was filmed on a set built inside the former Jewish settlement of Ganei Tal in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip.

    It depicts Hamas’ founding in the 1980s, attacks Aqel mounted on the Israeli military in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and the signing of the Oslo peace accord between Israel and the Palestine Liberation Organisation in 1993.

    The film cost $120,000 and was written by Mahmoud Al Zahar, a senior leader of Hamas, which the West regards as a terrorist group and shuns because of its refusal to renounce violence, recognise Israel and accept existing interim peace deals.

    Aqel was killed at the age of 22 by Israeli soldiers who surrounded his hideout in Gaza in 1993.

    Four of the actors in the film, which took several months to make, were later killed in the 22-day offensive Israel launched in the Gaza Strip last December with the declared aim of halting cross-border rocket attacks by Palestinian fighters.

    Majed Jendeya, the movie’s German-trained director, said he hoped to screen the film at the Cannes Festival in France. The movie is Hamas’ latest foray into the mass media – it owns a satellite TV channel, a radio station and several newspapers.

  17. David said on August 4th, 2009 at 4:08pm #

    mebosa ritchie

    Much wasted verbiage on your part. Setting aside your childish comments, nothing in your response in any way refutes my contention that the end result – not today or tomorrow- but inevitably, will be one state between the Jordan River and the Med. Sea. It will come about because after a period of reconciliation (temporary two states) the majority of Jews and Palestinians will want it. One secular state will lead to great economic and social opportunities for both peoples. Jews of foreign origin will become fully integrated into the Middle East and they as well as Palestinian Muslims, Christians, Druze etc. (as well as the rest of the world) will finally be free of the curse of zionism, a nineteenth century racist settler/colonialist ideology which will be assigned to history’s dust bin.

    BTW, Israel is not a “democratic” state. It is at best, an ethnocracy where a citizen’s access to humanitarian and democratic rights is determined by his/her religion and ethnicity. This is well illustrated by the fact that there is not such thing as an “Israeli.” Only Jewish and non-Jewish citizens of Israel who have to carry identity cards. Israel is the only country in the world that differentiates between citizenship and nationality.

    To quote two historians who are Jewish citizens of Israel:
    Ilan Pappe, former professor of political science at Haifa University, now at the University of London: “[Israel’s] political system [is] exclusionary, a pro forma democracy – going through the motions of democratic rule but essentially being akin to apartheid or Herenvolk (‘master race’) democracy.”

    Adi Ophir, philosophy professor at Tel Aviv University: “…the adoption of the political forms of an ethnocentric and racist nation-state in general, are turning Israel into the most dangerous place in the world for the humanity and morality of the Jewish community, for the continuity of Jewish cultures and perhaps for Jewish existence itself.”

    Ronnie Kasrils, minister for intelligence in the current South African government and also of the Jewish faith, is eminently qualified to comment on Israel’s “democracy.” In an article published in The Guardian he and his co-author concisely sum of the plight of Israel’s Palestinian/Arab citizens: “The Palestinian minority in Israel has for decades been denied basic equality in health, education, housing and land possession, solely because it is not Jewish. The fact that this minority is allowed to vote hardly redresses the rampant injustice in all other basic human rights. They are excluded from the very definition of the ‘Jewish state’, and have virtually no influence on the laws, or political, social and economic policies. Hence, their similarity to the black South Africans [under apartheid].” (The Guardian, 25 May 2005)

    Get educated!!!

  18. dan e said on August 4th, 2009 at 4:08pm #

    mebosa ritchie,

    Besides being a waste of time and space, you are a piece of lying scum. I won’t dignify your lies by debating them with you.

    The fact that I know you are a bald faced liar does not mean I have anything against Jews as such; indeed it was my exposure to the thoughts and writings of intelligent Jews that clued me in to the true character of the movement founded by Herr Herzl et al, and to the true nature of the racist state created by said movement.

    So don’t reply to me, reply to Israel Shahak, Rabbi Elmer Berger, Alfred Lilienthal, Steve Goldfield, Hilton Obenzinger, Jeff Blankfort and the other Jews who set me straight on people like you. David has it right in his comment above: “thieves, thugs, murderers and liars”.

    To paraphrase Proudhon, “Israel” is theft.

  19. Annie Ladysmith said on August 4th, 2009 at 6:23pm #

    All you have to do is research the history you Stupid fools. Stick your head in the sands, you are rabid racists why don’t you just admit it and the US is your whore. I even saw these little dark-skinned Jews on a public television station that was on atomic fall-out NOT racism. The information is all over the place. SORRY, i happen to have an IQ that is a bit above the mean also, so go F*** yourself. If you can’t even show mercy to dark-skinned Jews what mercy will you ever have for anyone?? NONE, of course, again, go F**K yourself in case you didn’t get the message. You freaking people are beyond all decent communication, i will never read another one of your A**HOLE comments, however, i will continue to give you mine. SO EAT S*** and DIE!

  20. Mart /Estonia said on August 5th, 2009 at 2:28am #

    Dan and David, thank you for well argumented and articulated opininions! There has been lot of studies concerning the philosophical thoughts and teachings which may have led to Nazi Germany’s official doctrine and hence the atrocities committed by them. IMHO it’s also time to seek what kind of teachings and concepts are by default behind the activities of Israel and whether these are acceptable in modern world.

  21. Mulga Mumblebrain said on August 5th, 2009 at 4:59am #

    Annie, don’t lose it fer Gawd’s sake-it just gives the Judeofascists an excuse to slander the whole site.Don’t let the lies and the arrogance with which they are uttered get to you. jon s, thanks for your ritual slur. I expect it, and it obviously gives the lie to your pretences of being ‘reasonable’. It’s an old Zionist trick, isn’t it? Run in packs with a ‘Good Zionist’ (you, dear Chap) a ‘Nasty Zionist (mebosa, naturally) and a ‘Mad Zionist’ (dear ruvy).By the by, what is your exact conception of the Palestinian state you claim to support? Is it Netanyahu’s ‘state’, in reality an electronic zoo for the ‘two-legged animals’, on less than 50% of the Occupied Territories, with no external borders, surrounded by Israeli colonies, with the Jordan Valley in Israeli hands, with no armed forces, Israeli veto over external relations, Israeli control of the airspace and the electronic space and, of course, the Qislings of Fatah in control? Oh, I forgot, with East Jerusalem ethnically cleansed of the ‘drugged cockroaches’ and thoroughly Judaised.
    No two-party state without total control of all the Occupied Territories, East Jerusalem and the absolutely obligatory Right of Return of the ethnically cleansed from 1948 and their descendants is acceptable to the Palestinians, and international law. I’d love to see your real position mapped out.

  22. sid wright said on August 5th, 2009 at 5:51am #

    as far as i am aware jordan is 70% palestinian.would that not make a more suitable palestinian state than one in the west bank controlled by much the same way as gaza would be better off as part of egypt as israel would be unlikely to bomb a part of egypt

  23. bozh said on August 5th, 2009 at 6:37am #

    jon s, with respect,
    the label “jew” can be compared only to labels such as “muslim”, “jehovah witness”, “buddhist”, et al.
    the label “jew” cannot be compared with labels such as “pole”, “italian”, “english”, et al. The latter do not evoke their respective cult or cultishness.

    you may not be aware of this fact or you are trying to make us think that a “jew” is no different than a “russian”.
    a label like “american” does not evoke her/his cult; oops, religion. The label “jew” evokes in most peoples’ minds also mosheism, judaism, talmudism.
    it evokes “jewishness”: separatism, divisiveness, supranaturalness, avoidance of hard work, connectedeness to hebrews [even tho they evanesced], theft of land/money, self promotion at expense of others, etc.

    however, if one looks at you and sees two legs, a head, digestive and nervous systems, tongue, lips, etc., all that can be compared with my lips, legs, arms, etc.
    in short, a human can be compared to any human! Once her “jewishness” or catholishness comes up, that person is not any longer human first!

  24. Annie Ladysmith said on August 5th, 2009 at 10:27am #

    Thank you Mr(?) Mumblebrain, your point is valid and has been well taken by me. I stand corrected and will try to keep my emotions and colorful vernacular under control.

  25. jon s said on August 5th, 2009 at 3:00pm #

    Annie- I’ll try to be generous and respect your IQ so let’s just say that you have no idea what you’re talking about.
    Mulga – it would be nice if you stopped referring to Palestinians as “two-legged animals”. If both sides agree to the principles of partition and 2 states then the details such as the borders, security, resources and the environment and also the status of Jerusalem and the refugee issue will have to be negotiated. The “right of Return” may be recognized in principle but it can’t be implemented literally , to the refugees’ actual former homes in Israel itself. That would be suicidal for Israel.

  26. David said on August 5th, 2009 at 4:12pm #

    You write: “If both sides agree to the principles of partition and 2 states then the details such as the borders, security, resources and the environment and also the status of Jerusalem and the refugee issue will have to be negotiated.'” Setting aside the fact that small and mutually agreed border adjustments can be negotiated, the borders have already been defined in UNSC mandatory Resolution 242, i.e.: “the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war” and “withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories OCCUPIED IN THE RECENT CONFLICT.” All in accordance with international law, e.g., the UN Charter, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and the Fourth Geneva Convention, all agreed to by Israel. Contrary to Israel’s spin, there is no ambiquity whatsovever in Res. 242. The UNSC cannot violate the terms of the UN Charter which prohibits territorial expansion under any circumstances. Also, as a pre-condition for being admitted to the UN, Israel agreed to comply with UNGA Resolution 194 regarding the repatriation and/or compensation for Palestinian refugees of 1948. This was laid out in Resolution 273 (11 May 1949.) Israel is the only country admitted to the UN with pre-conditions. Incidentally, a further 25,000 to 30,000 Palestinians were expelled by Israel just prior to and during its 1956 invasion of Egypt (in collusion with France and Britain) as were an additional 450,000 during and after Israel launched the June 1967 war. (According to Israeli sources, 800,000 Palestinians were driven out in 1948.) In its 2002 Beirut Peace Initiative the Arab League unanimously agreed to grant Israel full diplomatic recognition (exchange of ambassadors etc.) trade relations, etc., if it complied with UNSC Res. 242 and withdrew from all lands it invaded in 1967 and still occupies – this includes the Gaza Strip as under international law it is still under Israeli occupation – the IDF controls its borders, air space, entrances, exits and sea access. The Beirut Initiative also calls for a ‘just” solution to the Palestinian refugee problem. As first proposed by Arafat, the Palestinian leadership has long since agreed to share East Jerusalem (not including illegally expanded “East Jerusalem”) as a joint capital and has also agreed to the Beirut Initiative. Even Hamas has accepted the Beirut Inititiative and has repeatedly agreed to accept a Palestinian state as per the 4 June 1967 borders, i.e., a mere 22% of the Palestinians’ original homeland – a most “generous offer.”

  27. Mulga Mumblebrain said on August 6th, 2009 at 2:24am #

    Thank-you jon-your true position emerges from behind the ‘Good Zionist’ smokescreen. The Right of Return is international law, and obeying it in relation to the ethnically cleansed Palestinians was made a condition of Israel’s admission to the UN. Of course Israel, as ever, treacherously reneged on that undertaking, as one does with creatures you see as ‘two-legged animals’, or do you prefer ‘human lice’-you Zionists have such a rich lexicon of racist abuse for your victims. When the world is allegedly keen to stop ethnic cleansing, punish its perpetrators and reverse its malign effects, the demand that Israel be granted the usual ‘Chosen’ exemption from international law and basic humanity, is absolutely unacceptable. If any Jew cannot abide living in a state with non-Jews, they can return to Brooklyn, and try to cleanse it of the detested goyim.

  28. pam said on August 11th, 2009 at 6:44am #

    The Polish people who lived near the concentration camps in WW2 said they had no idea that evil was happening across the fields, phew, it’s a relief that we can now forgive the Poles, Landsmann’s ‘Shoah’ is now looking very different; now, we see the jews in ‘israel’ with the same response as the Poles, ‘we didn’t know it was happening’, (now where did they learn that from) – we can finally judge Germany, Poland the ‘holocaust’ for ourselves, as grown ups, and forget the propaganda. This piece of zionist whitewash deserves the contempt most responses are giving it

  29. pam said on August 11th, 2009 at 1:57pm #

    am gonna read it again, closely

  30. B99 said on August 12th, 2009 at 5:57pm #

    Bozh – If Jews (of the diaspora) see themselves as equivalent of Poles, Italians, etc. i.e., an ethnicity, then so be it. Ethnicity is self-identified, not Bozh-identified. By the same token, Palestinians self-identify as such, nobody can justifiably label them as miscellaneous Arabs, Jordanians, or what have you.

    With regard to religion, an ethnically identified Jew need not practice Judaism. The latter is the religion. Said Jew may be an atheist or even a Buddhist. Ethnicity and religion are not necessarily coincident.

    Do you think you can make your points without vilifying them as a people?

  31. Deedub said on September 1st, 2009 at 10:32pm #

    I am happy to see on this site some semblance of civilized discussion of subjects that have to be discussed. Most conflicts — Northern Ireland, Kosovo, Bosnia/Serbia/Croatia, Korea, Vietnam, etc., end up with discussions and some sort of settlement between sides who seen to hate each other so much that no discussion seems possible, so I pray that we will someday get to that point in the Middle East.

    I am happy to see some of this because when I look on sites which discuss things mostly from the Palestinian side, I find more openly racist dehumanizing and hysteria than I have seen since I read Nazi and Fascist literature a long time ago. It’s sad and scary that a cause that needs support from reasonable people – the plight of the Palestinians – gets used by people who want to whip themselves into a frenzy of murderous self-righteousness. Such people are the best argument I’ve seen in support of a position I don’t like: that there is no one for the Israelis to negotiate with.

    There will never be peace unless both sides can treat the other side as humans. The Israeli peace movement exist: there are Jews working hard for justice for the Palestinians. We need the Palestinians who are willing to talk to be save from killing by Hamas and other fanatics.

    All issues need to be discussed: will the right of return (including recovery of property) be granted to Jews who fled Arab countries? The right of return was not granted to Greeks and Turks when they were separated, to Muslims and Hindus when Pakistan was created. There can’t be rigid pre-conditions before talks can start. The current situation is too cruel to the refugees. Self-righteousness will get us nowhere.