Overcoming vs. Recycling Palestinian Oppression: Between Resistance and Peace Process

It really is time to be biased, and emphatically so. Biased against racism, injustice and oppression.

The assault on Gaza and its wake leave the Palestinians on uncertain ground. On the one hand, there is their legitimate right of resistance in order to achieve national liberation. On the other hand, are internal, regional, and international forces that seek to impose an externally imposed and pre-determined hegemonic solution.

War is consistently used by Israel as the prime means of statecraft. In the past, it has usually succeeded in achieving its goals, being the far more technologically advanced party. But as that gap shrinks, it is less useful against the asymmetric tactics of the weaker and oppressed Palestinians. With the second intifada, it became clear that war was no longer sufficient. It was still useful to terrorize, but not so productive in ensuring submission. Credit here is due to the Palestinians’ resilience and refusal to accept their unjust condition. A second tactic was then pursued (at length) in Oslo: co-opt the leadership who would then make the concessions that are dictated and also use the Palestinian’s own “security apparatus” to control the unruly and resilient population. Since then, war continues, either blatantly, or disguised as the interminable and completely concessionary peace process.

To terminate the endless recycling of Palestinian oppression it is time to strip the “process” away from “peace.”

To allow, accept and welcome resistance in the face of an oppressive occupier must start with truth-based and newspeak ((“Newspeak” is the concept from George Orwell’s 1984. It was the method by which vocabulary was constructed so as to give only “acceptable,” meaning government approved, meaning to events. This is done by stripping words of their original meanings, by reducing their associations, by eliminating anything considered unorthodox or heretical. In effect, Newspeak and its limited, officially sanctioned, and created vocabulary limited independent thought by effectively eliminating entire concepts, for example intellectual freedom. Thus it is possible for ignorance to be strength, for slavery to be freedom and for war to be peace.)) -free re-education. For one, expose what “moderate” and “extremist” really means. Further, expose the truth behind every bomb dropped “smartly,” every “military maneuver” launched with a lofty name, programs of “democracy” and “human rights” and “cultural re-education” designed to “help” the Palestinians (with the caveat, if only they’d help themselves). Frequently the approach is that if Palestinians don’t like these results, then it is clearly their own fault and it only makes the violent Israeli response all the more urgent. Israel’s massacre in Gaza to “help” “free” the population from Hamas very generously freed thousands from their lives, limbs and livelihoods. News needs to truthfully report on the killed, maimed, and terrorized, the destroyed schools, the equipment-free and medicine-less hospitals, the broken sewers, the political prisoners in “detention,” the tortured, the displaced, etc. Just like the classical Orwellian formula that “war is peace,” Israel and her enablers use “ignorance” and apathy as their “strength.” It is time for American mainstream media to stop knowingly or unwittingly reinforce ignorance, thereby making the strong stronger in their oppression. Overwhelmingly, it has not done so. Why bother to explain Hamas and Gaza when you can label them “terrorist?” Why trouble with having Palestinians and Arabs speak for themselves when we could just question our own US-based reporters (and if pressed, they can always quote a “puppet” insider? Why bother to read their writers or learn their language when they can read (Israeli) Raphael Patai’s Arab Mind? The end result is that “informed” “free” Western observers of the Palestinian Question are now freely thinking and expressing worthless rhetoric, effectively enslaved in their ignorance. But only the truth will change policies in favor of justice and equality.

Internally, who may and may not speak for Palestinians is crucial. The aftermath of the attack on Gaza may have forced the need to decide who that will be. It highlighted the split between the “rejectionist” camp (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and socialist and nationalist other groups) and the “negotiating / peace-seeking/ moderate” camp (Israel, the Palestinian Authority (PA) and the PLO, both of which are dominated by Fateh — although some groups within Fateh supported the resistance in Gaza). The failure of Israel to eliminate Hamas and the other rejectionists has given life to the possibility of “resistance” being a right and a prime policy of the PLO, as well as to ending the PA’s domination over the PLO. For many years various Palestinian groups have been calling for restructuring the PLO and for not allowing the appointed (and externally selected) PA to speak and negotiate (meaning concede) dictatorially on their behalf. ((In Cairo 2005, Hamas and Fatah agreed to restructure and re-vivify the PLO, with no implementation since. Calls are still ongoing to restructure the PLO into a more representative and active structure. The Palestine National Council of the PLO has not met officially since 1998, when it met to rubber stamp and reaffirm “Israel’s right to exist”. And its activist role on behalf of Palestinians has been essentially hijacked and subverted by the PA in Oslo 2003. The authority of the PA’s right to do this is derived of course, not from any legal basis, but from those with whom they are negotiating! Effectively, the PA has silenced the voices of Palestinians outside the Occupied Territories, among other things.))

On a regional level, a recent press conference of Turkish PM Erdogan and Egyptian President Mubarak is revealing. All rhetoric in support of Gaza aside, Erdogan’s presence raises the issue of a NATO role in enforcing a “solution.” It is also potentially subtle confirmation of the Rice-Livni Accord that was signed in Washington before the end of the assault and which announced that the US and NATO will be providing guarantees to Israel. For his part, Mubarak urged a “New Middle East.” But he also insisted on retaining the “historical” PLO as representative of the Palestinians. Being the “moderate” mediator between the Israelis and the Palestinians tells us a lot about whose interests will be represented. The announced talks that Egypt will be hosting will unsurprisingly not focus on the central issues of resistance and liberation and national rights. Instead, talks will deal only with the manifestations of the original injustice and not the cause: ceasefire, negotiations over opening borders, lifting the blockade, and resolving internal Palestinian divisions.

It is quite interesting what is left unsaid and what is discarded completely within these talks. For instance, Mubarak used “historical” ambiguously and did not elaborate on what that would really mean. To start, insistence on the “historical” PLO is code for the unelected and term-expired Palestinian Authority (PA) led by Mahmoud ‘Abbas who graciously (!) re-elected himself president. This could and should be interpreted as external reinforcement for the PA, which was criticized for its stance during the last assault on Gaza and for its continued domination of the PLO in its post-Oslo reincarnation as an unrepresentative and weak rubber stamp structure. Egypt and those whose interests it represents demand that the PA be the voice to speak for and negotiate on behalf of Palestinians. Ironically, this same PA has eliminated the integral reason for the very creation of the PLO (Palestine Liberation Organization). It is no longer concerned with any form of resistance, and is, in fact, actively opposed to it. Especially since the Oslo Accords, it now prefers the role of other regional “moderates” whose role is to provide “security” for Israel. “Moderates’” other roles also entail following neo-liberal, neo-conservative and anti-human agendas. Mubarak’s call must therefore be viewed from within that framework. Seen this way, lifting the blockade actually means stopping the arms flow into Hamas-controlled Gaza, i.e. stopping a legitimate right of resisting occupation. And resolving internal divisions will entail manipulating and forcing a role for the present leadership of the PA. The resilience of resistance in Gaza has put Fateh on the defensive and so it recently announced that it will hold a conference in Jordan on March 21, 2009 to restructure. ((Khaled Mismar, member of the Palestinian National Council (interestingly, it was formerly called the Fateh Revolutionary Council), made the announcement.)) Not so ironically, it will be held near the Dead Sea!

Moreover, Mubarak’s use of the phrase “New Middle East” is instructive. Despite a supposedly new approach to foreign policy under the Obama administration, it seems that Bush policies continue.

The term “New Middle East” was first introduced by then Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in Tel Aviv with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert in June 2006 during the height of the Israeli assault on Lebanon. It replaced the older “Greater Middle East” and was intended to signal to the world the American and Israeli intentions to radically transform the region by relying mainly on the widespread “creative destruction,” ((The term was first used by the neo-conservative Bush advisor Michael Ledeen.)) otherwise spun by Rice as “the birth pangs of democracy.” Essentially, its main component was (and is) the preference for military interventionism and chaos to effect change in favor of achieving US and Israeli hegemonic goals. It attempts to redraw maps to facilitate resource extraction, globalization, the spread of neo-liberalism, control over oil flows, and so forth. It does this by creating “security dilemmas” that force people to identify with smaller groupings and factions to ensure their protection against the disintegrating or violent state. It thus enhances and tries to consecrate societal, religious, and political divisions so as to fracture states into smaller and more easily controlled entities. ((L.C. Ralph Peters, “Blood Borders: How a Better Middle East Will Look,” Armed Forces Journal, June 2006. It is not official Pentagon Doctrine but has been used in NATO training.)) Examples of this include the invasion and attempted federalization of Iraq into Sunni, Shi’i and Kurdish states, the war and internal agitation in Lebanon against Hizbullah, as well as the effective split in the Occupied Territories between Gaza and the West Bank. The newspeak justification used continues to be Trojan horses like “liberation,” “democracy,” “human rights,” “women’s rights,” as well as (racist) arguments of civilizational advancement and overcoming “cultural stagnation.” This takes the guise of “fighting terrorism.” Furthermore, assistance for this “New Middle East” project is obsequiously and enthusiastically provided by “moderate” forces like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, the Palestinian Authority as well as others in the region.

One must view Mubarak’s insistence on maintaining the “historical” PLO within this international and regional attempts to perpetuate Palestinian oppression. Resistance is nowhere to be seen. It has degenerated into talk about opening checkpoints and who is to be in charge of reconstructing Gaza. Moreover, the proposed framework for negotiations between the PA and Hamas is circumscribed as well to conform with the Israeli agenda, setting up four groups to deal with government, security forces, elections, and resolution of internal divisions. Notice again the ignoring of the vastly more important question of achieving national rights and liberation for the Palestinians – a demand that historically Egypt insisted upon. International complicity in the Palestinians’ oppression was evident as well, with the EU announcing the donation of $216.2 million in “aid” to the PA (and implicitly, its security forces). The same was intended with the previously mentioned Rice-Livni Accord.

Those who really care about the restoration of Palestinian legitimate and historic rights would like to see a fully inclusive and completely elected organization that truly reflects popular wishes and that can faithfully represent their interests and aspirations. This includes resistance and liberation. What name it is given is of much less significance. And achieving national aspirations is the vastly more important goal.

On the Israeli side, the elections have exposed, yet again, the increasing radicalization of the Israeli populace. The Labor Party, which founded the state, has slipped to fourth place in the number of seats won in the Knesset. They are now behind Kadima, Likud, and the even more racist and fascist Ysrael Beiteinu. Moreover, when one includes the seats of the far-right Shas party as well, it is quite obvious that the segment seeking “peace,” however deformed a version, has dwindled to insignificance.

Rhetoric aside, the Israeli version of “peace” has historically been merely a dragged out process during which they establish “facts on the ground” which effectively torpedo any such thing. More often than not, it has actively pursued war as a means of establishing the state, then expanding it, then suppressing any and all resistance to its oppression. The only new development is that in the present global neo-liberal and neo-conservatively aggressive environment, Israel sees no need to embellish its true nature. This makes it possible for political persons and parties in Israel to now defend and promote blatantly the racist and ethnically cleansing ethos of the state.

Proof of this is easy to find if one looks at the party platforms and political statements — not to mention concrete actions like war, settlement expansion, road blocks, etc. The elected majority of Likud, overwhelmingly former Likud (Kadima), Ysrael Beiteinu, and Shas use overt or covert language that rejects a fully independent, contiguous and fully sovereign Palestinian state in the Occupied Territories – a promise made in the Oslo Accords.

If one was unaware of the truth, and only knew newspeak, then the results might seem surprising. For instance, Neve Gordon, in an interview with Democracy Now, said that Lieberman’s Ysrael Beiteinu party did exceptionally well even though they do not have a strong economic or social program. Likewise, Likud also surged in the elections despite having done nothing since Netanyahu was forced out of office in a scandal in 2006. ((“Israeli Professor Neve Gordon and Palestinian Lawmaker Mustafa Barghouti on the Israeli Elections,” Democracy Now!, 2/11/2009.)) One reason, the main reason in my opinion, is that they can all agree on hatred of Palestinians. Lieberman’s demand of a loyalty oath was often reported as if he were exceptional. But that is disingenuous. According to Hanin Zoubi, the first Palestinian woman to stand for election in Israel, it is nothing new. The only innovation he introduced is stripping “disloyal Arabs” of their Israeli citizenship. ((“Israeli Professor Neve Gordon and Palestinian Lawmaker Mustafa Barghouti on the Israeli Elections,” Democracy Now!, 2/11/2009.)) But this must have been anticipated. Legally, Palestinians are recognized only as “Arabs” and are theoretically equal, “except in civic duty.” But de jure, they are second class citizens who aren’t even identified using their own identity – as Palestinians. ((The Israeli Declaration of Independence states the establishment of a “Jewish” state. Even earlier, in 1914, when Chaim Weizman said that Palestine was “a country without people,” he did not claim that it was empty, only that its people had no right to self-determination. Moreover, their naming as “Arab” is similar to the imperialist and hegemon’s naming of its subjects, for example the imposition of invented names on Native American tribes.)) Historically, Israel has consistently prevented the formation of Palestinian nationalist political parties. MAPAI (early Labor) Israeli governments always hand-picked Palestinian politicians from among (cooperative) notables. A strategy they pursue today using the PA.

Palestinian representative Mustafa Barghouti says that Israel has completed the shift to racism, an apartheid state and political system, with the complicity of the army and the international community. Commenting on the Rice-Livni agreement, he said: “That agreement was that the United States and NATO will be providing guarantees to Israel and … prevent[ing] the resistance of the Palestinian people who are under occupation. So this is the first time in human history where … the people under occupation in the West Bank are supposed, through this huge security apparatus, which is consuming 34% of our budget, depriving us from healthcare and education – the Palestinian Authority is supposed to provide protection to its occupiers, and the world community has to provide protection to the occupying force of Gaza, in this case the Israeli occupying force.” ((“Israeli Professor Neve Gordon and Palestinian Lawmaker Mustafa Barghouti on the Israeli Elections,” Democracy Now!, 2/11/2009.))

Even the “moderate” Labor’s Party platform states: “The Labour Party recognizes the Palestinian’s right to self-determination, and does not rule out in this connection the establishment of a Palestinian state with limited sovereignty.” Note that it does not rule it in either. And while Kadima professes a willingness to give up parts of “Greater Israel,” its former leader Olmert proclaimed “our nation’s eternal and historic rights to this entire land” (2006 speech to US Congress). Similarly, the so called peace-leaning leftist party, Meretz, initially supported the war on Gaza, and retreated from that position three days later only when the massacre didn’t achieve its goals on schedule. ((Uri Avnery, “Dirty Socks,” Dissident Voice, 2/09/2009.)) Therefore, there are vast practical similarities between the parties despite the perceived spin/newspeak “differences” in their relations with the Palestinians.

Suffice to say that Palestinian oppression continues apace. But resistance only grows, as it must. And the vicious circle of resistance and oppression must and will be broken only when there is truth and justice.

Dina Jadallah-Taschler is an Arab-American of Palestinian and Egyptian descent, a political science graduate and is also an artist. She can be reached at: Dina.Jadallah.Taschler@gmail.com. Read other articles by Dina, or visit Dina's website.

47 comments on this article so far ...

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  1. bozh said on February 16th, 2009 at 9:48am #

    war process is a better label for judeo-christian avarice for other people’s land.
    its been going on for at least 90 yrs; may continue until the oil level is much more dwn than now.
    and only then come at least two more final solutions: expulsion of pals and eventual expulsion of the israelis.thnx

  2. Michael Kenny said on February 16th, 2009 at 1:05pm #

    This is all very well, but Ms Jadallah-Taschler should not lose sight of the wondeful fact that the Palestinians are winning! The collapse of American power is leaving Israel high and dry and more and more people in Israel and elsewhere are staring to realise that. The failed attack on Gaza was itself a half-backed panic measure gone off at half cock. That the Israelis are desperately clinging to empty words and dreaming of mythical support from Europe is a sign of how bad they think things are.

  3. Dina Jadallah-Taschler said on February 16th, 2009 at 1:13pm #

    I agree with you Michael Kenny, but the road to winning is long and difficult! Your point is well taken. Thanks.

  4. Jacob said on February 17th, 2009 at 4:23am #

    war process is a better label for muslim avarice for other people’s land.
    its been going on for at least 900 yrs; may continue until the entire Kalifat is rebuilt.
    and only then come at least two more final solutions: expulsion of infidels and eventual expulsion of the intellects.thnx

  5. Gideon said on February 17th, 2009 at 7:30am #

    Hamas booby-traps: home entrances booby-trapped without the knowledge of the residents. Another one next to a gas station, school and a zoo.

    Palestinians should determine their future and their leadership is accountable for their past and present.

    “Credit here is due to the Palestinians’ resilience and refusal to accept their unjust condition.”
    “the approach is that if Palestinians don’t like these results, then it is clearly their own fault”

    Politics is the art of the possible. Palestinians missed every opportunity possible to establish Palestinian State, plus NO ACTION – ZERO, NADA, ZIP – between 1948-1967 to even bring it up with their Arab brothers!
    Now it takes courage to accept what you can get TODAY and make the best out of it. Ben Gurion did in 1947.
    It’s about time to find a Palestinian leadership and help them grow a pair!

    “Why bother to explain Hamas and Gaza when you can label them “terrorist?” ”
    Yes, Deliberate and Indescriment Tartgeting of Civilians with Intent to Maximize Killing of Civilians is TERRORISM.

    “The failure of Israel to eliminate Hamas ”
    Israel does not have an objective to eliminate Hamas. Palestinian government is their problem. Israeli objective is Security and Palestinian AUTHORITY with whom to close a deal.
    Does establishment of a Palestinina Authority only happen after a Palestinian Civil War?
    Palestinians should call Israel after they sort it out.

    The term “New Middle East” was introduced by Shimon Peres during Rabin’s government to describe the new Peace reality that may result from new era bringing Arafat back in 90s.

  6. bozh said on February 17th, 2009 at 8:16am #

    arabs too have by warfare established an empire. however, canaanitic peoples, the descendants of ham, have not established an empire thru wars.
    of course, pals may be partly arab as well. so, as an admixture of hamites-shemites, they may have resided in canaan for at 7K yrs.
    hebrews have immigrated into canaan ca 1200 bc.

    euro-asians with a cult who have no connection to any shemitic people have in ’20-49 thru warfare robbed the people of their land that they may have inhabited for 7 millennia.
    and actually may be even killing the real judeans or jews. thnx

  7. Gideon said on February 17th, 2009 at 8:57am #

    Palestinians are actually Jews! bozh you just found the Solution! “pals may be partly Arab ” and may be “real judeans or jews.”

    All you have to do now is convince the Palestinians to convert to Judaism and there is no need to seek a two state solution, it will be one happy family in Israel!

    What do you have to say to THAT?

  8. Dina Jadallah-Taschler said on February 17th, 2009 at 9:54am #

    I say that it is important not to change the subject every time there is a criticism of Israel’s behavior. First, there’s no need for anyone to convert — just to adhere to principles of equality, freedom, and the democratic principles that Israel claims to practice but which must be applied to everyone. You can’t have an occupation and not expect resistance. Second, on the subject of the origin of peoples. I am not a believer in the “purity” of any. But on this topic, you might want to consult with Shlomo Sand’s bestseller in Israel “When and How Was the Jewish People Invented,” soon to be translated into English. In any case, it is besides the point. Because the issue is not Judaism, which is perfectly fine. It is Zionism — which is political, expansionist, and based on racist principles. It really is time to adopt more humanistic principles. And there is something hypocritical about appropriating the right to self-defense for only one side — the dominant, occupying one — and denying that right to others. There can’t be peace built on injustice and the misinformation produced to cover it up will not solve anything.

  9. bozh said on February 17th, 2009 at 10:02am #

    since the hamitic peoples had been cursed by noah, judaists might first of all repudiate the noah’s curse against his son Ham and his descendants, the canaanites.
    as for shemites, descendants of another noah’s son, Shem they are arabs and hebrews o f N. Kingdom and judeans of judea.
    so i suggest also the nonshemitic and nonhamitic peoples of europe first convert back to shemites and accept either baal or allah.
    however, the hate btwn euro-asians and shemites (actually canaanites were/are also shemitic) may be at this time insurmountable for a reconcilliation.

    best to all shemites. thnx

  10. Gideon said on February 17th, 2009 at 11:25pm #

    Self defense is a universal right. When someone comes to kill you, defend yourself, please.

    More than that, I encourage Hamas military wing (excluding those between the ages of 14-17 and women homicide bombers) to get out of their holes and from behind the skirts of their mothers, wives and sisters and DEFEND themselves.

    And while you “o, brave martyrs” defend yourselves, leave the children and elderly alone, take 600 steps away, in any direction from any school, mosque, house, water pipe, humanitarian aid warehouse and definitely any UN facility and than have all the Defending you desire!

    And please while you at it, put on your Hamas uniform that we have seen you wear with such pride at the filmed Hamas parades, so we all can appreciate your Defending.

    Now that’s defending!

    Deliberate and Indescriment Tartgeting of Civilians with Intent to Maximize Killing of Civilians is TERRORISM and has nothing to do with self defense!

  11. Menashe Shlomo said on February 18th, 2009 at 2:31am #

    Dina,I was toutched and impressed by your informed and intelligent article,but there are a few words I want to tell yoy.First,you are treading the ideologue path,that is you are willing to sacrifice the people for the cause.You are instigating the Palestinians to resist thereby giving the Israelis a cause to slaughter them.The Israeli leadership(to its generations)sees itself as the guardian of the Jewish state and the Palestinians as the enemies of that state.They see the Palestinian resistance as a challenge to their very legitimacy to “Eretz Israel”(Palestine) and will fight this challenge with every means in their disposal.By instigating the Palestinians to resist the occupation you virtually pushing them in the way of the Israelis with disasterous consequenses to themselves.So they have lost their land and now they have to lose their souls too .It may sound defitist, but I’d rather save the Palestinians and sacrifice the cause (for the time being at least). Let us save those gethoized,starved, defenseless,and abandoned poor Palestinian children,women and men and let the cause take care of itself.To me the real people is more important.[I define myself as a Jewish Palestinian who lives in Jerusalem and does’nt recognize the state of Israel].

  12. Barry said on February 18th, 2009 at 7:21am #

    Gideon – Palestinians have missed no opportunities to establish a state. With the demise of the Ottomans they were immediately colonized by the Brits who brought in fellow Europeans (Jews) to protect British interests. That was not a missed opportunity by the Palestinians, that was an imposition from without. In the wake of WWII a guilt-ridden and opportunistic West recommended that more than half of the Palestinian homeland be granted to the outsiders. That was not a missed opportunity by the Palestinians, but an attempt at land theft by outsiders. The colonists immediately set upon the natives, killing and driving out 700,000 of them. That was not a missed opportunity, that was ethnic cleansing. Two decades later, the Israelis once again attacked the Palestinians, this time in the remainder of Palestine – and has occupied the whole of Palestine ever since. This was not a lost opportunity by the Palestinians, this was genocide – Israel’s effort towards a Final Solution to their gentile problem. That effort continues to this very morning.
    Ben Gurion was not a couragious man. He had nothing in Palestine but was given 55%. He cleansed his way to an additional 23%.

    Israel’s objective was to weaken Hamas and the Gazan people to the extent that they’d turn to Fatah and Abbas. Abbas is a stooge of Israel who garners close to zero respect from Palestinians anywhere. And while Fatah is capable of becoming a force again in all of Palestine – it won’t be with Abbas, he’s dead in the water.
    The reason that Hamas has gained power is that Palestinians put their faith and reason into Fatah for many decades and gained not one dunam of land, nor control over their own lives – instead, Israel expropriates land daily.

    As it is understood that self-defense is a universal right, then it is understood that Palestinians have every right to fire rockets against their occupiers. Israel cannot employ the jargon of self-defense against the Palestinians any more than Hitler could against the Czechs.

    It should be recalled that it is Israel that uses human shields. In fact, it is Israel that has been taken to court – and lost – for its use of human shields. Does Gideon need the details on this? This of course, has not stopped Israel from continuing to use human shields. Hamas does not use human shields. Gaza is an urban area – the physical size of the City of Atlanta but with three times Atlanta’s population. It has no military bases, no military seaports nor airports. It operates as people under occupation do – as best it can. In law, Israel is legally obligated to refrain from bombing civilian sites – yet Israel did so wantonly. Israel has a long and tawdry history of attacking civilian sites, neutral sites, and the facilities of peacekeeping forces. Israel is guilty of crimes against humanity – repeated crimes. It is up to Israel to prove its innocence – and it can’t. The clock is ticking on Israel. The only thing saving its leaders from the ICJ is that they don’t dare venture to Europe.

  13. Barry said on February 18th, 2009 at 7:43am #

    Menashe – Palestinians hardly need instigation from those on the outside to resist the expropriation of their homeland. As informative as Ms. Jadallah-Taschlers article is, and as knowledgeable about the subject matter as she is – her ‘encouragement’ of Palestinians has no effect whatsover on their resistance – nor does anything any of us might say or do. Palestinians are resisting their own demise, as any self-respecting people would do. They have done so for nearly a century, and done so with essentially no help from outsiders, nay, outsiders have only contributed to their dismal existential condition.
    It really cannot be said that Palestinians are giving Israel cause to slaughter them – that’s tantamount to blaming the Jews for the Holocaust. The only reason it is relevant that the Israeli leadership sees itself as the guardian of the Jewish state (with Palestinian humanity and aspirations as non-existent) is because the world refuses to step in to stop these medieval ideologues from putting facts on the ground.

  14. Dina Jadallah-Taschler said on February 18th, 2009 at 7:55am #

    Hi Menashe, Thanks for your very thoughtful and compassionate response. Many Palestinians feel the same way that you do– up to a point–, because really, most people just want to live in peace and go on with their lives. However, I don’t think of myself as an ideologue. Rather an idealist. Perhaps naive, but this is me 🙂 Another thing that you I think underestimate, is that the state of Israel kills and harms Palestinians consistently whether they are resisting or not. Perhaps the scale and ugliness and the immediacy of the trauma are exaggerated in a massacre like we saw in Gaza, but the “targeted assassinations” (which frequently take many civilian lives with them), as well as land and resource appropriations, denial of rights, detentions and humiliations continue non-stop. And this has always been the case, even when Palestinians chose resistance of the non-violent variety, e.g. General Strike of 1963-39, or the First Intifada, or even during the recent “ceasefire” between Hamas and Israel. So I think that for Israel, it is imperative that Palestinians accept a permanent subjugated, defeated condition, preferably outside of their historic lands, for the attacks on Palestinians to end. As a Palestinian, I cannot but advocate the right of resistance until our rights and freedom are restored. I would prefer non-violent resistance, of course. But even then, the Oslo Peace Process has been going on since 1993, with no good results. In fact the opposite: increased expansionism, more settlements, more roadblocks, etc…. One has to re-evaluate what this process is supposed to be about, and it seems that it has been regressive. And it’s not just Israel that is to blame. I blame the regressive and dictatorial Palestinian leadership and Arab leadership even more. Another point is that I am not as hopeless as you about the prospects for resistance. Especially if it is grass-roots. (It’s not that I like Hamas or any particular group. In fact, I don’t. I much prefer secular, democratic –of the real kind — leaders who can resist and negotiate more smartly, and perhaps less violently.) Finally, and very emphatically, I do believe that equality and the restoration of rights must preceed peace. Even though I am Palestinian, I never once heard a bad word about Jews or their religion growing up, and was taught that it is the person’s character that is more important than the religion in which they were born (which is purely accidental). However, I was also taught that I am equal to everybody else and that I must fight for what is right and just, even if it is disadvantageous to me personally, and especially if it is about weaker people. So, no, I think Palestinians must and will resist to the last, and that despite what their current leaders do, they believe in their own humanity and their rightful place among other peoples in this world and will fight for it. And Menashe, I know you’re not alone in how you define yourself 🙂 I’m sure that there are many humanists out there.

  15. Dina Jadallah-Taschler said on February 18th, 2009 at 8:32am #

    Hi, Barry, I liked your arguments, especially your last point. In international law, and this was confirmed during the Nuremberg Trials, it is the self-evident legal and moral principle than an aggressor can’t rely on self-defense to justify against resistance to its own aggression. And since there IS an occupation, that is the initial aggression. And Palestinian resistance to that aggression does not justify any reprisal against them for resisting.

  16. Gideon said on February 18th, 2009 at 9:55am #

    Anti-Hamas intifada in Gaza NOW, that’s resistance! Gandhi is the way to Palestinian state.

    Are you ready to fight till the last Palestinian for the “cause”?

    Each one of the events in the time line is a PALESTINIAN LOST OPPORTUNITY!
    Insanity is continuing doing the same for 60 years (trying to throw the Jews into the sea), failing each time and expecting a different result the next time.
    It’s about time Palestinian adopt Gandhi approach toward Israel, they would be able to achieve much more. It’s time for a new Palestinian peaceful leadership to build something.

    Ben Gurion was a courageous man!

    Palestinians put a really tough fight to get the Negev!, but unfortunately could not get it?
    Barry, I would love to hear more about this!

    Maybe they would be interested in a land swap today?
    Maybe this can be it – the KEY to a Peace agreement?

    Barry, can you get the ball rolling on this idea?

    For everybody’s sake to refresh your memory:

    The UN partition plan allocated 11.4 m. dunam to the Arab State and 14.92 m. dunam to the Jewish state.

    Now let’s count it together:
    Jewish state 14.92 million
    (-) minus
    Negev is 12.5 million (83%)
    Equal 2.42 million
    (-) minus
    Jewish owned 1.8 million ( 12%)
    Equal 0.62 million (<5%)
    this is the land that was “given” to Israel

    So the UN resolution 181 allocated to Jewish State:
    a lot of crappy land (Negev) 12.5 million dunam
    + land they already bought and owned 1.8 million dunam
    + another 0.62 million dunam.

    Kids say “thank you for nothing”, yet it’s amazing, Zionists still took the deal!

    Negev, Bersheva which was (and still is) the largest town in Negev had a population of 7,000 (93% Arab) people in 1945.
    Today, the Negev is home to some 379,000 Jews ( that’s less than 8% of Israel Jewish population) and some 175,000 Bedouin.

  17. Jack said on February 18th, 2009 at 10:00am #


    A satyagraha resistance to Israeli occupation and brutality would end Zionist “moral right” almost over night. Sure you really want that? Sure you really want Palestinians to discover their heritage in Abdul Kalam Azad and Abdul Gaffar Khan?

  18. Gideon said on February 18th, 2009 at 10:15am #

    Palestinians to follow: Gandhi, Abdul Kalam Azad, Abdul Gaffar Khan – YES, YES, YES, ….

    Jack – absolutely!
    Let the Palestinians gain the moral ground. It may be a game changer.

  19. Jack said on February 18th, 2009 at 10:24am #

    Not for you and your Hasbara ilk, Gideon. You’ll probably toss out Bibi and drag in Avigdor, thinking more “toughness” will force an occupied people into submission.

  20. bozh said on February 18th, 2009 at 10:29am #

    gideon is saying to a man, robbed by another, that he shld not want stolen property back, because that way he will “receive” less.
    note the word “receive”, please.
    however, you can only receive s’mthing that is yours or s’mthing as a gift.
    so, israel can only return (‘give’, ‘jews’ say) back what it stole. but, of course, gideon (not so subtly) wants you to conclude that israel is giving away its own property.

    but then, they might run to other schemes and say palestine did not exist; the region was depopulated; UK allowed pals into the region; this is ishrael; arabs attacked us, etcetc. thnx

  21. Gideon said on February 18th, 2009 at 10:52am #

    Palestinian Arabs were Over Allocated 2.2 Million dunam in 1947 UN 181 partition.

    How much of the of the 11.4 million dunam allocated to the Arab state by 1947 UN resolution 181 was owned by Palestinian Arabs?

    bozh – please give us some insight?

    Why Palestinian Jews did not get their fair share of Palestine public land?
    1/3 of the Palestine Public land based on proportional population allocation. Public land is a public land after all.

    Now, pick up a number: if Palestinian Arab land ownership was even DOUBLE (which I doubt) the Palestinian Jewish ownership, that would be 3.6 million dunam.

    Arab State – 11.4 M
    Arab ownership 3.6 M
    Public land 7.8 M
    + (plus)
    Jewish public land 0.62 M
    Total public land 8.42 M

    Allocation based on population
    Jews 1/3 2.8 M
    Arabs 2/3 5.6 M

    Under allocated to Jews: 2.8-0.6 = 2.2 M
    Over allocate to Arabs: 7.8 – 5.6 = 2.2 M

    Pleaaaase do not count the Negev!

    So what about Negev?
    Are we negotiating?
    Let’s line up a land swap?

  22. mary said on February 18th, 2009 at 12:04pm #

    I found a good little joke on Living with the Conspiracy 24-7 today:-

    An ingenious example of speech and politics
    Published February 16, 2009

    One of my friends usually sends me great e-mails. Here’s the latest:

    An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations Assembly and made the world community smile.

    The Palestinian Representative’s Speech at the UN:

    ‘Before beginning my talk I want to tell you something about Moses. When he struck the rock and it brought forth water, he thought, ‘What a good opportunity to have a bath!’

    He removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock and entered the water. When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished.
    An Israeli had stolen them.’

    The Israeli representative jumped up furiously and shouted, ‘What are you talking about? The Israelis weren’t there then.’

    The Palestinian representative smiled and said:
    ‘And now that we have made that clear, I will begin my speech.’


    We endorse the The Petition to Investigate War Crimes in Gaza Petition to of the Prosecutor, International Criminal Court.

    Read the The Petition to Investigate War Crimes in Gaza Petition

  23. mebosa ritchie said on February 18th, 2009 at 1:33pm #

    The palestinians took them!
    Posted by Bollywood Sargam Joker on 27-May-2004
    111 people have seen this joke.

    see below for the correct version of your HILARIOUS joke

    The Israeli Ambassador is sitting down with Yassir Arafat to try to work out a peace agreement. The Ambassador asks if he might first tell a story. Arafat tells him to go ahead.
    The Ambassador begins.

    “When Moses was in the desert for 40 years, the Jews got very thirsty and Moses asked God for water and there appeared a beautiful lake. The Jews first drank and then bathed themselves. Moses did the same when it was his turn, but when he came out of the water, all his clothes were gone. “Moses shouted, `Where are my clothes? Who took them?”` “The Jews answered, `The Palestinians took them.`”
    Arafat quickly objected by saying that there were no Palestinians at that time.
    he Ambassador looks at Arafat and says, “RIGHT!!! NOW we can begin to negotiate.Source: Gagandeep Singh Swani

  24. mebosa ritchie said on February 18th, 2009 at 1:36pm #


    What happens when a fly falls into a coffee cup?

    The Italian: throws the cup and walks away in a fit of rage.

    The Frenchman: takes out the fly, and drinks the coffee.

    The Chinese: eats the fly and throws away the coffee.

    The Russian: drinks the coffee with the fly, since it was extra with no charge.

    The Israeli: sells the coffee to the Frenchman, the fly to the Chinese, buys himself a new cup of coffee and uses the extra money to invent a device that prevents flies from falling into coffee.

    The Palestinian: blames the Israeli for the fly falling in his coffee, protests the act of aggression to the UN, takes a loan from the European Union to buy a new cup of coffee, uses the money to purchase explosives, and then blows up the coffee house where the Italian, the Frenchman, the Chinese, and the Russian are all trying to explain to the Israeli that he should give away his cup of coffee to the Palestinian.

  25. Barry said on February 18th, 2009 at 3:46pm #

    Gideon – If Gandhi is the way to a Palestinian state – then it is no wonder that there is no Palestinian state – Israel has only produced Milosevic’s. If Gandhi had been Palestinian he’d have been imprisoned or eliminated long ago.

    Uh – try to throw the Jews into the sea??? Plan Dalet was the Jews plan to drive the Palestinians into the desert. This they did, except for those in coastal towns whom they literally did drive into the sea.

    Ben Gurion was so Zionist that he said that if Jewish children were not delivered to Israel (rather than Britain), he’d rather they perish.

    The zionists (not the Pals) insisted on the Negev for its potential mineral and oil wealth and to have a seaport on a second sea. (Little did the Zionists know that the oil was really off Gaza! No wonder, Israel controls Gazan seaspace.)

    Why are you presenting imaginary math to gain what the Zionists took by force? The pertinent stats: Jews population 30%, Palestinians, 70%. Jews land, 7%, Palestinian land 93%. Average time of Jewish inhabitation in Palestine at time of UN recommendation 8-12 years. Average time of Palestinian inhabitation, 10,000 years. Percentage of Palestinians who wanted to remain in Palestine, 99%. Percentage of Jews who wanted to live anywhere but Palestine, 99%. Harmony.

  26. Menashe Shlomo said on February 18th, 2009 at 4:59pm #

    Dina shalom.Let me start by saying that I admire and sympathise with your standing and your cause in the face of big adversary forces.For the last 90 years you the Palestinian people found yourselves in a disadventageous place ,to say the least.Here come a people that for centuries underwent suffering culminating in a genocide and demand its homeland back.Now, what is the justification for this demand?The answer is obvious-the Bible.This was the land promise them by God in I covenant with Abraham.It is there they received the divine law and became a nation,and from there exiled among the nations, with the promise that in the fullness of time they will be reinstated by God to their land and renew their days as of ancient.Now I will have to be rude enough to say that the Bible is not the international law neither a UN resolution and therefore does not oblige the Palestinians.Furthermore,the scores of the Jews is with the Europeans but they project it on to the Palestinians and demand the compensation from them at theit expense.All this is common wisdom now ,but maybe not for the Israelis and others amongt the international community, who say why those Palestinians cannot make some room for these survivers of racism and genocide,and the Israelis say we will defend our land against those “bad” Palestinians.Of course if you look at the facts honestly and call a spade spade (apropo newspeak)then you see colonization,usurpation,expulsion,ethnic cleansing and an ongoing genocide.Now bear in mind that the saying that “all that the Palestinians have to do to prevail is just to be” is a double-edged sward and carries a danger with it ,because then the inference may be that to not let them prevail we need (God forbids) not to let them be, and here you have a great danger.Bear in mind that a decision has been made as far back as 1919 by the Zionist leaders not to ever compromise with the Arabs(Ann Lesch “T he Impact of Zionism”),a decision that prevails to this very day and lies in the hearts of the Israeli ruling elite when they come to deal with the Palestinians.In other words Israel never wanted an accomodation with the Palestinians for whom they saw only one destiny.Now would it be wise to have the Palestinians stand in the way of a victimized self-righteous nation who will stop at nothing in their march to “un-victimhood”.Furthermore,remember that the jews have never wielded polithical power for the last two millenia,you think they will renounce it now? They conceive of the struggle in zero-sum language ,add to this supremacism and exclusivism,which are deeply embeded in their consciouceness, and here you have a formula for conceiving of the Palestinians as intruders and iterlopers who have only one thing in mind.Also bear in mind please that they(amasingly enough)live in a kind of siege mentality,in which they feel a sense of being beleaguered by Arabs from all directions.[Meir Ariel’s ” Song of Pain” -‘At the end of every sentence you utter in Hebrew there sit an Arab with nargila’].Now add to this the notion, among some at least,(the more soffisticated)that we don’t want the fate of the crusaders,we are here to stay and you have all kinds of “steadfasteners”,from Biblical “promisedners” to “we don’t have another land-ers”.Now Dina bear in mind that I don’t mean to be rough on the Israelis,the simple citizens per se, they are not to blame.With the accomplicement of the Israeli media they are brain washed and lied to,and the real facts of Gaza and the West Bank are concealed from them.During the genocidal carnage they were screened from the real facts on the ground by imposed and self-imposed media censoreship.One had to resort to alternative web media and Aljazzera(which most lack) to know the truth,and this of course is not an apologetic exoneration on behalf of Jewish Israel citizenry.Now Dina the last thing and maybe the most important.Faten Morsy in her article “The Return of the Repressed” (worldbulletin.net) explains Zionism’s mindset by Jung’s theory about victimhood and sacrifice.According to this theory victimhood needs atonement;etonement entails sacrifice;sacrifice means someone (or something)is going to be sacrificed to atone and redress the wrong doing.Now,apply this to Zionism and here you have :the victim(Jews) ,wrongdoing(antisemitism,genocide),the process of etonement by sacrifice,the sacrificed(the Palestinians).Now bear in mind that in this theory (also alegorically appears in Liviticus)the sacrificed does’t necessarily have to be the one who perpetrated the crime ,it can be anyone,preferably recalcitrent.And here Dina if you conect the dots you have a dangerous reality.Of course I don’t want to undermine or discourage you in your just struggle,I just want you not to be the sacrifice for the etonement for crimes perpetrated to Jews by Europeans.Last word,Zionism needed an adversary counterforce to build itself as a power and here there were the Palestinians that played exactly this roll.This brings to mind that Goering when asked about the Nazi’s attitude towars the Jews replied that had the Jews not existed they the Nazis would have had to invent them.Now remember that the Israeli ruling class don’t care for Palestinian chidren either way,they are just doing what it takes to save their trusteeship,an obligation they self-proclaimedly took upon themselves in the name of the Jewish people ,in which there is no place for Arabs,and which they will fight to defend.They worship a Moloch(Zionism) to which human sacrifice is brought as Palestinian and Israeli blood.We are all, Palestinians and Israelis alike, captives of ideologies and emperial forces.Now to sum up;by violently resisting you are playing into their hands.By implication, by not resisting violently you are bringing nearer and nearer a situation in which the Palestinians will (if inadvertently)be integrated into the Israeli body and by then you will have conquered Israel from within without bloodshed,much like the Germanic tribes conquered Rome gradually.The Israelis are too strong to be taken by force,and rember who is behind them.Violent resistance plays against you,it alienates the international community and is grist to the propoganda mill here and in America.Your cause is right and just but we need you to live to see it realising.This is only a point of view of one pecifist who very much sympathise whith you and thinks that the state of Israel has the right to exist only when justice will be done to the Palestinian people and an end brought to their horrible plight.

  27. Gideon said on February 18th, 2009 at 10:31pm #

    Land swap anybody? A piece in Negev for a piece in West Bank?
    Palestinian Arab land ownership in 1947?

    Are you saying that Palestinian Arabs wanted a piece of Negev land and petitioned to get some rather than the land they have been allocated?
    Any sources?

    Do you have a supported estimate of Palestinian Arab land ownership in 1947?

  28. Gideon said on February 18th, 2009 at 10:44pm #

    “Hamas leadership to be brought to trial for War Crimes”.
    Protect Palestinians from Hamas.

    You are invited to sign this petition

  29. Gideon said on February 18th, 2009 at 11:02pm #

    The Smoking Gun: Arab Immigration into Palestine 1900 – 1947, numbers anybody?

  30. mary said on February 19th, 2009 at 3:31am #

    No thank you. I think the call for signatures which has gone out to the supporters of the entity has met the required response.

    At the time the ‘petition’ was written, this was happening to the people in Gaza.

  31. Barry said on February 21st, 2009 at 1:10pm #

    Gideon – Palestinians were not bargaining on any piece of Palestine. Palestine was of a piece – they rejected the rule of their colonizers and the imposition of European colonists. By having been on the winning side in WWI, the promise of freedom from foreign hegemony was explicit. That promise was betrayed. There was no need for Palestinians to negotiate for their own country – all of which rightfully belonged to them.

    There is no smoking gun regarding Arab migration (and it would not be immigration – not under the Ottomans, and not regarding seasonal migration). But more importantly, Palestinians have inhabited Palestine since the Neolithic – they never left – so so-called Arab migration is not relevant.

  32. Barry said on February 21st, 2009 at 1:25pm #

    Menashe – That’s a well-organized analysis – and pretty much on the money in my opinion. I would say, however, that you have under-analyzed the Palestinian psyche and their need to resist in every way possible (and not be singled out among all resistance movements as the one that needs to find a Gandhi). Palestinians have gone vast stretches of time without concerted violence – and have yet to gain a dunam for that. In fact, the West Bank was very quiet during Israel’s attack on Gaza – but the Israeli land expropriations went on uninterrupted. I think we all know from the 3rd Reich what non-violent resistance accomplished – pretty much nothing. Of course, had the Jews been able to organize a resistance, I think the results would have pretty much been the same. Truth is, violent Palestinian resistance has been minimal – and minimal for a long time. The rockets hardly constitute violent resistance. Yet the brainwashed Israeli Jews continue to vote to the right – truthfully speaking, they pretty much always have. Goldhagen’s thesis is that the German people were guilty – not just the Nazi Party. If that was true, then it is also true here. At some point the Jews of Israel have to throw off that yoke – they just cannot be excused interminably.

  33. bozh said on February 21st, 2009 at 2:07pm #

    barring the apsolutes, all germans were guilty. the question arises, to what degree on a scale of 100C, each person is culpable.

    but, generally speaking, a people believes to be true what the authority/litterati/illuminati/clergy tell them; it seems that most people don’t want to punish in any way the duped people.

    even 90% + of israelis do not deserve any punishment. however, bengurion, dayan, meir,begin, sharon, peres, shamir, barak, ohlmert, netanyahu and many others shld stand trial for war crimes. thnx

  34. Barry said on February 21st, 2009 at 3:13pm #

    I don’t know if all Germans are guilty. There are always millions of people, or more accurately, a goodly percentage of any population that is not politically cognizant – and those who just don’t have the intelligence or education to clearly assess matters. And then there are those who fight against the regime – or resist in some manner.

    To my way of thinking, its those who were aware – and did nothing and said nothing – that can be considered guilty to varying degrees. Of course, those who carry out acts, or give commands, or look the other way when others are carrying out acts – are pretty much guilty. Book ’em.

    I think this applies to both Nazi Germany and Israel (and the pre-state colony). I, of course, agree on your list of perps – the list could be extended by thousands. I think it also applies to those in America – and that would especially include politically cognizant Jews – who instead of carrying out a duty to change the US relationship to Israel, defend Israel at any and all cost (to others). It does not apply to politically unaware Jews (or non-Jews) or those who to any degree work or talk or write or act or whatever to change the nature of the US/Israel relationship or Israel’s behavior.

    In a nutshell – I don’t think everyone is guilty.

  35. bozh said on February 21st, 2009 at 4:51pm #

    i don’t know why i failed to exclude from being guilty of nazi crimes those germans who were against nazis or wound up dead or in camps; it totally slipped my mind. thnx

  36. Menashe Shlomo said on February 21st, 2009 at 5:38pm #

    Barry,thanks for your comment.Before relating to your insightful remarks Iwant to say that shortly after adressing Dina by the words”Dina shalom” Irealised how much this word(shalom) has been abused in recent years in our region that I almost felt awkward using it. Now to the point.I am very well aware that I project my psyche unto the Palestinians when I want them not to get head to head against Israel cum America. I’ll explain : What eventually brought the Nazis down was not Jewish resistance ,which anyway was hopeless in the face of the giant monster,but the might of Russia and the west.The same applies here; the abandoned and isolated Palestinians cannot fight two super-powers ,a global and a regional.Furthermore,America cum Israel use the Palestinian resistance as an excuse to even further subjugate and punish them instead of aknowldging and granting their justful rights .Remember that the Israeli-American policy is to politicide the Palestinians (in the words of the late Baruch Kimmerling)that is to strip them off their national aspirations, for which aim the Zionist state was created by colonial Britain in the first place. Now,the Palestinians have no power on their side ,all powers (Egypt,Jordan,Saudi Arbia ect. )reneged to the side of the strong (America -Israel) .The only power that is about to stand for them is Iran ,which is a regional super-power in the making,intending to challenge Israel hegemony ,and that’s exactly why she is perceived a threat .America-Israel won’t accept anyone interfering with their supremacist regional hegemony.just remember what happened to the defiant Iraq ,and that was a lesson for everyone to take. In such an imbalanced situation ,where all power (even Arab regimes) is pitted against the Palestinians ,with Persia power only in the making yet, when Israel with impunity can inflict on the Palestinians not one Kristalnacht but 22 Nachten und Tagen, not a Guernica but 22 Guernicas,without anyone lifting a finger ,with the approval, if not outright instigation , of the Egyptian and PA presidents,what chance stand the poor under- nourished Gazans? Let me draw few opptions for further approach: 1) The Palestinians acquiece in their poor lot until a time when a new generation of Israeli ruling elite renounces Zionism and integrate the Palestinians into Israel-Palestine (including refugees) to creat the bi-national (or alternatively bi-ethnic)common state. Option 2)To accept the Bantustan solution, hoping to procede from there to either eventually fully integrate with Israel or create a federation and thereby become ecconomically viable.Now, in the global and post national world (if that’s where we are really heading)borders and the like don’t carry much import,and the Palestinians will have at last some peace ;(of course for a minute I don’t forget the plight of the refugees which must be redressed). As for the so called two- state solution within the borders of 1967 with a viabile Palestine ,almost everyone(excepting Shimon Peress) agrees is now long gone. So if what we are left with is a one state solution,when eventually Israel renounces its racist structure,to protect which she needs the fourth strongest army in the world,then either this solution comes through the front door or from the backdoor.But to go on spilling Palestinian blood is unacceptable and should avoided in all cost. Now,concerning the notion of collective guilt. I tent to agree with Uri Davis (uridavis.info) that there is no such thing and therefore we don’t hold the Germans guilty for the crimes of the Nazis. As for the responcibility of a society for crimes sanctioned by the government we don’t absolve the society , but remember that governments have the means to manipulate society as a collective body into all kinds of undertakings be it benevolent as peace or malignant as a carnage. In a racist apartheid that Israel is , the change is unlikely to come from below , that is by the people ; it has to come either from above, that is elite groups , or from international civil societies applying all the needed pressure on their governments ,(boycot and divestment included), to to bring pressure to bear on Israel-America , because the Palestians are strangling.

  37. Barry said on February 22nd, 2009 at 12:41pm #

    Menashe – Good Day. Actually, I was not really accusing you of projecting your psyche onto the Palestinians. Rather it seems we (supporters of either side or supporters of some ideal) try to explain the Israeli-Jewish psyche – whether based in the Holocaust, based in government/media brainwashing, or based in their alleged Western ideals, etc. When we attempt to explain the Palestinian psyche, it is usually quite simplistic. As a result, Israeli-Jewish angst and yearnings have to be dealt with – but for the Palestinians it’s a mere toggle switch – they either want peace or not; or they either recognize Israel or not; or they either resist violently or come up with a Gandhi. So the analysis of Palestinians aspirations and their grave historical disappointments are given short shrift.

    While Israelis are perceived to be rational and are forgiven for being driven by the Arabs to occasional irrationality, Palestinians are expected to make rational choices, their perceived all-too-frequent irrational choices are deemed cultural failures of one stripe or another. So I think it is asking too much for Palestinians to go gentle (gentile?) into that good night, to refrain from resisting – winning the demographic struggle in the long run brings no peace of mind in the present.

    I was not suggesting that Jewish resistance brought down the Nazis – in fact I was arguing that non-resistance, passive resistance, or violent resistance would no doubt have engendered the same results for European Jews. (I do wonder what sustained resistance to the Nazis would have done for the Jewish psyche today, both in and out of Israel, and what ramifications it might have had for today’s conflict.) In as much as the Israeli goal is an Erez Israel that includes at least all land it currently inhabits or occupies (now likely minus Gaza), it does not seem to me that Palestinians would have gained anything from non-resistance or non-violent resistance. After all, Israel took the WB&G in 1967 without having been attacked by Palestinians – and Israel subsequently began moving settlers into the Territories with little organized resistance from the stunned population. In fact, I think the lack of organized Palestinian resistance up front only encouraged Israel to expropriate more land.

    I agree that the goal of the Israeli state is to disappear the Palestinians – to make them into miscellaneous Arabs – ‘at home anywhere and nowhere’ – as I believe Golda Meier put it. And I agree that it is Iranian support for Palestinians that is the root cause of the US/Israel effort to squash that country – as the US did Iraq, as you say.

    Your options: (A) Palestinians wait it out until Israeli leaders renounce Zionism. OK – that may not be as long a wait as hell freezing over, but pretty close. While I do recognize that the bloom is off the Zionism flower both in Israel and in the US, its advocates are pretty tenacious and well ensconced in the halls of power. So while it is more and more difficult over time to rally Jews to Israel’s support with each passing ‘crisis’, far fewer come to the aid of Palestine, or at least few with deep purses and friends in Washington or the national media. My final hesitation on this is that if the Czechs and Slovaks could not form one nation, how can Palestinians and Jews?
    The second solution (B) – accepting the Bantustans – seems to me a recipe for disappearance – ethnic cleansing. What will likely happen to my way of thinking is that this Palestine of numerous compounds will not be viable. Unrest will ensue, parts will once again be occupied by Israel – and then annexed, while the rest of the ‘failed state’ will be handed over to Jordan – with some border adjustments. Voila – the Palestinians are relegated to quaint history as was intended by Zionists all along. Now, of course the Palestinians will be actively functioning against their own demise – but it is unlikely to be enough without a major change in the balance of power on the planet (or maybe some ecological upheaval that entirely changes the game).

    What I imagine will happen is that the state of Palestine will eventually consist of most of the present day West Bank – and all of Gaza, poor Gaza. Palestinians will have to hold out for a 1:1 exchange on land – the Galilee would be ideal, but difficult to gain from Israel (but Palestinians must insist on more than sandy/swampy/contaminated land behind Gaza). At some point after that, it will likely be in the best interests of the mini-state of Palestine to join in a free association with Jordan. In the meantime, a few Palestinian refugees will have been permitted back into their homes now in Israel – but the majority will take compensation and stay in their present countries or move to Palestine. There will be repercussions on this for some time to come because neither Hamas nor PLO are entitled to speak for refugees, so I imagine there will be some dissent from all three sides in this triangle. I envision this scenario happening within this decade or so. The region will then reach a new equilibrium and will await events that once again take it out of equilibrium – events originating in such half-baked solutions. Maybe down the pike there will be a bi-national solution, but if I had to lay odds it I think further marginalization of Palestinians is more likely than a solitary state containing both. Not the fault of the Palestinians mind you, they have been valiant – but because no one is going to come to their rescue.

  38. bozh said on February 22nd, 2009 at 4:15pm #

    yes, US has an end solution for israel. it’s a taboo subject. to date, as far as i know, the telos has not even been mentioned let alone a demand made on uncle sam to reveal what his ‘solution’ entails.
    without obtaining a palestinischen frei eretz yishrael, ‘zionists’ wld have labored in vain.
    so that is just one step in perhaps 5-6 step plan. step 2 wld be to tear apart syria and lebanon. step1 actually may be accomplished after step 6.
    whatever the order, israel wld have been too tiny, too poor; surounded with enemies unless all steps are accomplished.
    dismembering iran and jordan may be also part of the plan.
    however, all steps wld not be accomplished until oil is depleted to a degree and renewable energies are obtained.

    ‘ zionists’ (means they have no connection to zion) after near a century have not obtained a state.
    since they can easily achieve a state of their own and 98% of israelis feverishly desire it, the question arises, what is stopping them?
    i think US and some oiless country do.

  39. Barry said on February 22nd, 2009 at 7:16pm #

    But since Israeli Jews do not want the burden of governing scores of millions of non-Jews, and resentful ones at that, I think Erez Israel basically stops at the Jordan River on the east, the Litani on the north, and a piece of Sinai. Not that they will get it – but I think that’s always been the long-term goal – similar to what the early Zionists pushed for. Trouble is, Israel realized with the ’73 war that Egypt will never relent on possession of Sinai just as Syria is not going to relent on Golan. Ultimately, but for border adjustments in Palestine, I think Israel is at is maximum geography. Not that it should be any bigger.

  40. Menashe Shlomo said on February 23rd, 2009 at 5:26am #

    Barry good morning ( it’s morning in Palestine). Lately I read an article that maintained that Zionism is nationality in reverse; that is, whereas national movement (as usually encountered in history books ) craves to throw the shackles of the empire it is under, Zionism on the contrary was created by empire (Britain) and maintained by empire (US) , to serve as proxy power in curbing other nationalities – Arab nationality in general and Palestinian in particular . Therefore it is aligned with colonialism,imperialism,supremacism and subjugation , and that’s why it is elitistic and antidemocratic ( if by democracy we understand the people and equality of humanity). Another aspect of Zionism is that it is idealistic ,that is ,it strives to forge and create reality according to a set of concepts (ideology) regardless of the existing circunstances and conditions ; in other words to revolutionize reality. Therefore it has to be ruthless,uncompromising and egotistic. The reason that I suggest non-resistance is that since day one until today resistance played against the Palestinians. It was either forcefully crashed or they were manipulated and lied to ,as during Oslo and all the other phases of the “peace process” ; as you rightly said, for them there was only one destiny-perish . Furthermore, look what “accrue” them from the second intifada : a wall ,more land confiscation, hundreds of more checkpoints ,Jewish only roads,movement restriction ,arbiterary rule , and much more ; to sum – more strangulation .The viciousness and malignancy of Washington-Israel. This is a tragedy in the making. The Palestinians must extricate themselves out of it and resign the role of the victim. Let them not play into the hands of people who don’t wish them well . Let them not incure the wrath of empire who already marked them off . Let them forgo the demand for recognition , and concentrate and invest in rehabilitating their life. Zionism is in a Tantalus posision . It almost got what it wants but for a minor gap- the existense of Arabs on “Eretz-Israel” . The Jews have made a full circle just to meet what they had feared and wanted to avoid namely, Arab majority in “retz Israel” . Zionism would long since achieved its goal but for the Palestinians who have ” stuck” in its way. That’s the frustration and that’s the helplessness . We are wroughting a great revolution here , we are on the historic journey to Jewish statehood and these Arabs thence? They want to shear us of our great achievement but we are not going to let them,they want to take us 60 years back but we will turn the clock on them many years back (Dan Halutz on Lebanon July 12 2006 bbc.news). We will despair them from their false dream .We have no use for them “. See Ari Shavit interview with Dov Weissglass Haaretz about putting the peace process in formaldeyhde. Barry basically I accept your assesment of the “options” but I am pessimistic as for the chances of achieving anything ,because there is no will on the part of America-Israel to grant them anything whatsoever . It’s an experiment in despair.

  41. dino said on February 23rd, 2009 at 6:59am #

    The settlers and especially the young are called “idealists” by the Israeli commentators because “they deny the reality” or something like that.But they have nothing idealist if through the term is understood a desire to reach, with every means,even self sacrifice, a thing valid for the entire humanity or a large part of it.The settlers risk nothing.They are armed and protected by the army and by the law.Of course what they want is far away to be an universal aim,is contrary to what a human being see as right from an universal point of view .

  42. Shabnam said on February 23rd, 2009 at 8:53am #

    We are reading comments from few closet Zionists at this site who are trying to make crimes of Zionism and its supporters all over the world as a service to the ‘empire.’ These closet Zionists are in total denial that resistance against occupation of Palestine is the only tool left for anyone to bring down occupation and to wipe off Zionism, worse than fascism, from the face of earth. This trick, to present ‘Zionism as a proxy power’ has been exposed long time ago and no one listens to this rubbish any more since we are witnessing crimes made by zionism in occupied Palestine, North of Iraq (Kurdistan) on daily basis, and in Sudan where they had launched a phony campaign, ‘child slavery’ with James Jacobs as its director to brainwash citizen of the ‘empire’ to cooperate with phony Zionist’s campaign against Sudanese government to create tension among population by providing financial and military support to its manufactured ‘leader’, George Garang, to partition Sudan. Today, Southern Sudan is ‘autonomous’ and because Garang is dead due to a helicopter crash in July 2005, his widow Rebecca Garang, handling the diplomatic relations between Southern Sudan and other countries such as US, Canada. According to sources SPLA, Garang’s party, has an office in Israel, which is against the policy of Sudanese government. After their success in Southern Sudan, the Zionists have moved to Darfur with a phony charge of ‘genocide’ to partition Sudan according to Oded Yinon’s instructions.
    This is related to zionist plan of world domination where, according to Oded Yinon, “A strategy for Israel in the nineteen eighties” Israel must 1) become an imperial regional power, and 2) must effect the division of the whole area into small states by the partition of all regional states.


  43. mebosa ritchie said on February 23rd, 2009 at 10:31am #

    shabnam,you are entirely correct.
    the zionists,well the jews really, are responsible for ALL the problems in the world,including global warming,the economic recesion and even the disappearing pandas in china.
    they are behind every earthquake,hurricane and tsunami in the world
    i even believe they are responible for my haemorrhoids flaring up as this is probably a worldwide zionist plot to subjugate the world by causing everyone to suffer from haemorrhoids to take their mind off the economic problems.
    well spotted shabnam

  44. bozh said on February 23rd, 2009 at 1:38pm #

    my wife makes rules especially for me. ‘zionists’ make rules especially for pal’ns; at least at this time.
    judaists make special rules for judaists and ‘jews’ and also different special rules for all other cults.
    e.g., special rule numero uno is that only a ‘jew’ (even tho she maybe a gypsy) is chosen.

    judeans had a rule for everything, which made jesus (yehuda?) so mad he called the pharisees “hypocrites”.

    however, judaists hate islam but are deathly afraid of mad christians. judaists love me, because i am impious and to boot have devil of my own.
    the riddle is why do ‘zionists’ hate me? i am just like them; totally impious and i and ‘zionists’ have a devil of our own.
    is it because ‘zionists’ think that only they have a right to a devil?
    vielen dank, gracias muchos.

  45. mebosa ritchie said on February 23rd, 2009 at 2:43pm #

    bozh,you’re smoking some good gear today.
    tried some moroccan skunk but it tasted like camel dung.
    have you tried menthol filters with a sprinkling of ketamine powder and some home grown oklahoma stuff.
    real good and it lasts about 8 hrs and gives you peace with everyone
    all the best

  46. The Paraphraser said on February 23rd, 2009 at 3:08pm #

    Mebosa I would be utterly delighted if you could, as they say, give me the hook up. All the best.

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