Coexistence, Not Apartheid

For the last 60 years, all those who have sought a genuinely peaceful and fair solution for Israel and Palestine have faced the same obstacle — Israel’s sense of invincibility and military arrogance, abetted by the US and other Western governments’ unwavering support.

Despite recent setbacks on the military front, the Israeli government is yet to awaken to the reality that Israel is simply not invincible. The wheel of history, which has seen the rise and fall of many great powers, won’t grind to a halt. Experiences have also repeatedly shown that neither Israel’s nuclear arms nor Washington’s billions of dollars in annual funds could create ‘security’ for the former.

While Israel can celebrate whatever skewed version of history it wishes to, it still cannot defeat a people, ordinary people armed with their will to survive and reclaim what was rightfully theirs. The same problem confronted the US in Vietnam, France in Algeria and Italy in Libya. The Palestinian people will not evaporate. Attempts to undermine Palestinian unity, instigate civil violence, and groom and present shady characters as ‘representatives’ of Palestinians have failed in the past and will continue to fail.

Representing, and thus dealing with the conflict as one invented and sustained by Arab greed and Palestinian terrorism helped Israel garner sympathy, while simultaneously convoluting what should have been an urgent example of injustice, predicated on colonialism and ethnic cleansing.

More, depicting the mere existence of Palestinians as a ‘threat’, a ‘problem’ and a ‘demographic bomb’ is inhumane and actually a full-fledged form of racism. Throughout its 60 years of existence, successive Israeli governments have treated Palestinians — the native inhabitants of historic Palestine — as undesired and thus negligible inhabitants of a land that was promised only to Jews by some divine power thousands of years ago.

This archaic concept has managed to define mainstream politics in Israel, and increasingly the US, allowing religious doctrines to discriminate and brutally repress Palestinians, both citizens of Israel and residents of the occupied Territories.

Needless to say, neither a figurative Iron wall, like that proposed by Vladimir Jabotinsky in 1923, nor an actual massive and menacing structure as the one being erected in the West Bank can really separate Israel from its ‘problem’, the Palestinians. An area roughly the size of the US state of Vermont cannot sustain such a complex model — a country that is open unconditionally for all Jews who wish to immigrate, and an oppressed population that is caged in between walls, fences, and hundreds of checkpoints — without inviting perpetual conflict.

What Israel has created in Palestine belies its own claim that its ultimate wish is peace with security. While occupied East Jerusalem is entirely annexed by an Israeli government diktat, 40 per cent of the total size of the West Bank is used exclusively for the purposes of the illegal Jewish settlers and the Israeli military. How can Israel’s claim of wanting to live in peace be taken seriously if it continues to invade the lives, confiscate the land and usurp the water of Palestinians?

When Israel invaded East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza in 1967, the Jewish citizens of Israel celebrated the ‘return’ of biblical Judea and Samaria and the reunification of Jerusalem. Nearly 300,000 more Palestinians were ethnically cleansed, adding to the many more who were evicted from historic Palestine in 1948.

Yet, most Palestinians have remained hostage to the Israeli-invented limbo that suggests they were neither citizens of Israel, nor of their own state, nor deserving of the rights of an occupied civilian population under the Geneva Convention.

Despite this, Israel’s insistence on employing military ‘solutions’ in its dealing with Palestinians have constantly backfired. Palestinians naturally rebelled and were repeatedly suppressed, which only worsened the feud and heightened the level of violence.

The PLO’s acceptance of Israel’s existence, and UN Resolution 242 as a first step towards a two state solution was both ridiculed and rejected by the Israeli government, which continued to arrange for its own ineffective and ultimately destructive solutions.

Throughout the years, Israel translated its military strength to erect more settlements and move its population to occupied Palestinian territories. Even after the Oslo Accords of September 1993, the construction of settlements didn’t slow down, but rather accelerated. After the most recent peace talks in Annapolis in November 2007, Israel continues to grant more permits to build more homes in illegal settlements under the guise of ‘natural expansion.’

But it may have gone too far, leaving itself and Palestinians with few options now.

In a November 29, 2007 interview with Israeli daily Ha’aretz, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert warned that without a two-state agreement, Israel would face “a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights” in which case “Israel (would be) finished.” It’s ironic that Israeli leaders are now advocating the same solution that they vehemently rejected in the past. However, the Israeli version of the two-state agreement hardly meets the minimum expectations of Palestinians.

Without Jerusalem, without their refugees’ right of return as enshrined in UN resolution 194 and with a West Bank dotted with over 216 settlements and scarred by a mammoth wall, asking Palestinians to accept an Israeli version of the two-state solution is asking them to agree to their eternal imprisonment, subjugation and defeat — which they have rejected generation after generation.

If Israel is indeed interested in a peaceful resolution to this bloody conflict, one that is based on equal human and legal rights, justice, security and lasting peace, then it must add a new word to its lexicon: coexistence. Jews and Arabs coexisted peacefully prior to the rise of Zionism, and they are capable of doing so in the future. Any other solution would simply institutionalize racism and apartheid, undermine democracy and human rights and thus further perpetuate violence.

It’s time for a secular, democratic state to cease being part of a removed academic discussion, and instead be integrated into mainstream debate, if not dialogue in Palestine and Israel. This is the right, moral and indeed urgent course of action required now.

Ramzy Baroud is a journalist and the editor of The Palestine Chronicle. He is the author of five books. His latest is These Chains Will Be Broken: Palestinian Stories of Struggle and Defiance in Israeli Prisons (Clarity Press). Baroud is a Non-resident Senior Research Fellow at the Center for Islam and Global Affairs, Istanbul Zaim University (IZU). Read other articles by Ramzy, or visit Ramzy's website.

24 comments on this article so far ...

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  1. Edwin Pell said on May 28th, 2008 at 9:39am #

    A fair solution for the theft of Palestinian land? There is only one fair solution the return of the stolen land. And the trial for murder of all who use murder to take the land.

  2. Giorgio said on May 28th, 2008 at 1:27pm #

    A fair solution for this conflict?
    Here is my “fairest” solution:
    A huge tsunami of Arabs pushing and throwing the Israelis on to the sea, and be so lucky that, like Dunkirk in WWII , there would be enough ships, yachts, dinghies, and canoes to pick them up and live another day……

  3. hp said on May 28th, 2008 at 9:53pm #

    The Israelis are interested in coexistence/solutions/compromise about as much as mosquitoes are interested in swamp draining.

  4. zhann said on May 28th, 2008 at 11:47pm #

    And so, the Jew Bashing continues. It is such a tragedy that people are so convinced that their opinion is the correct one. In this case, Palestinians (some Arabs) and Jews are the only ones who have the right to hold such strong opinions of this subject. The rest of the world, however, simply reads what they want to read, and believes what they want to believe … in order to support their opinions. They will intentionally ignore all the facts that ‘may’ prove their opinion wrong, on the simple basis that it doesn’t further fuel their opinion.

    Giorgio said it best “A huge tsunami of Arabs pushing and throwing the Israelis on to the sea” … that’s right, lets end this violence with more violence. Great job! Rather than screaming your opinions on matters that you know little about, why not focus some of that energy to come up with a solution? Not a solution that kills the Jews and saves the poor Palestinians, but a real solution. Whets going on in Israel/Palestine right now has been going on for millennia, and with people like you it will continue for millennia to come.

  5. Aidan said on May 29th, 2008 at 3:02am #

    Zhann, it’s hardly ‘jew bashing’ as you put it. It’s a basic humanitarian ideal, and has nothing to do with the religion of the occupier, except as far as the occupation is based on fundamentalist religious grounds. The point is, the Israelis don’t have to be in Israel. They are welcomed around the first world – damn near revered in some parts of the ‘states. It’s quite true that the ‘fairest’ option would be to simply ship the lot of them back home.

    OF COURSE that’s a completley unrealistic idea (the world ‘ent fair anyway). But it is good to keep that in mind when negotiating with Israel, since people have to realise that letting the Israelis remain in Palestine is already a MASSIVE concession on behalf of the people living there. People simply CAN NOT discuss the issue as if both sides were equally wrong or equally right – the existence of the state of Israel is a crime, there’s no two ways about it.

  6. zhann said on May 29th, 2008 at 9:16am #

    Aidan, if we were to look at the history of Israel/Palestine only over the past 100 years, I may agree with you that “the existence of the state of Israel is a crime” … crime may be a bit stretching it, but I understand where you are coming from. The problem is that this conflict has in reality been ever growing in excess of 3500 years. The so called “Holy Land” has been dominated by super power after super power … from Persians, to Romans, to Ottomans, to English … to leave out more than a few. This land has never been Palestinian, nor has it been Jewish. However, both Jews and Palestinians have lived there for these 3500 years (technically a great deal longer, but that’s as far back as a somewhat accurate written record goes back).

    But, again, I am not here to defend Jews in what they do. What I am trying to point out is that, in all reality, people on Dissident Voice are primarily anti Jewish (or Israeli). The problem is that everyone has stopped looking at the conflict as a whole, and is concentrating on Human Rights issues. This is important, no doubt, but there is a much larger picture that is simply being ignored. This conflict isn’t a simple 60 year conflict … it stretches thousands of years. It may be argued that Jews and Palestinians have lived together peacefully before the late 19th century, but that is only because they had a common enemy … whoever happened to own that land at the time. This “Holy Land” has been a hotspot from the beginning of written history, and will continue to be a hotspot if people simply choose sides and condemn the other … especially how it is done on sites like this, and its Jewish counterparts.

    All I am asking is for people to take a look at both sides … see that they have both made terrible mistakes, are both making terrible mistakes, and the way things are going, both will keep making terrible mistakes long into the future. Neither side is right in this conflict, each are only looking out for their best interests and could care less about the other.

  7. Deadbeat said on May 29th, 2008 at 9:52am #

    people on Dissident Voice are primarily anti Jewish (or Israeli).

    Israel itself is anti-Semetic and anti-Jewish.

  8. zhann said on May 29th, 2008 at 12:50pm #

    Thats not fair. But, you must admit, I am correct. The vast majority of opinions are Pro-Palestinian then. There isn’t a lot of talk about what Palestinians do wrong. A bit one sided, no?

    … as for Anti-Semetic, that is just a term thrown around too much. A term like that can be created for any race/religion.

  9. Deadbeat said on May 29th, 2008 at 4:24pm #

    Thats not fair. But, you must admit, I am correct. The vast majority of opinions are Pro-Palestinian then. There isn’t a lot of talk about what Palestinians do wrong. A bit one sided, no?

    What is one-sided is the power of Zionism to oppress and ethnically cleanse the Palestinians. Zionism is clearly both anti-Jewish and anti-Semitic. The Palestinians are engaged in RESISTANCE which they have a world-wide recognized right to. Unfortunately the discourse in the U.S. which is highly racist against Arab think they do not as exemplified by your rhetoric.

  10. AaronG said on May 29th, 2008 at 4:48pm #

    If conflicts involve money, land etc then they generally can be negotiated away, even if the final result is not 50-50. However, if conflict involves religion, then there can be no negotiation. All parties stubbornly hold to some ancient promise to the land. Jerusalem continues to be a sticking point in ‘negotiations’. If this piece of dirt was considered as just a piece of dirt to share with neighbours, then we’re one step closer to resolving this ‘conflict’/invasion.

    Solution? Get rid of religion.

  11. hp said on May 29th, 2008 at 6:10pm #

    Do you seriously believe the Zionists are religious?
    Get rid of irreligion.

  12. Giorgio said on May 30th, 2008 at 7:54pm #

    Zhann says,
    “And so, the Jew Bashing continues. It is such a tragedy that people are so convinced that their opinion is the correct one. ”

    Yes, I’m convinced that my opinion is the correct one!
    Why? Firstly because I use the “grey matter” between my ears and not the the “toxic sludge” the likes of a GW Bush uses between his ears.
    Secondly, I form my opinions based on what I see on the news and read. I read not what Arabs have to say, but what Jews have to say. I read what people like Uri Avneri, Amira Hass, Norman Finkelstein have to say, and others. When a man of such impecable academic stature and courage IS fired from his teaching post at the Catholic DePaul University as a result of a pure witch-hunt conducted by the likes of plagiarist and arch-zionist Alan Dershowitz and then rubber stamped by Pope Ratzo XVIII, and then just a few of days ago is refused entry and barred from Israel for 10 years; what is one to do? Nothing? OR just say: Oh! gee-whiz! aren’t those ‘Israeli Joooos’ smart? and applaud?

    The tragedy does not lie in people’s opinions. People can have as many opinions as they like…that’s FREDOM OF SPEECH! But opinions can be WRONG and downright Stupid OR RIGHT and downright Sensible! and one makes use of God’s given reasoning ability to see the difference between the two. This simple.

    The real tragedy is in the actions of the State of Israel using it’s privileged status ( in terms of financial clout, military power and media control) to oppress a virtually defenceless people, throw and push them around and treat them exactly like they call them, ‘sand-niggers’ ! …and brazenly ‘piss’ on them because they believe that “Israeli piss is holier than anybody else’s” as Amira Hass remarked some time ago.

  13. hp said on May 30th, 2008 at 9:03pm #

    Alan Dershowitz ought to be arrested for impersonating a Semite.

  14. Calm said on May 31st, 2008 at 5:14am #

    What I find sort of amusing is that we are “Allowed” to discuss and investigate or critique the holocaust carried out upon the North American Indian …. and even debate it’s rights/wrongs and the reasons why …. but your not “Allowed” to discuss/investigate/question the holocaust carried out against the Jews or the holocaust of 30 million people committed by Stalin’s Jews. To investigate or to discuss the Jewish holocaust is said to be a holocaust denier or a hate monger. Noam Chomsky put it this way: “….Israel has been granted a unique immunity from criticism in mainstream journalism and scholarship….”

    There is a well known Jewish joke that tells more about Israel and the Middle East than a thousand books:
    “Many Jews don’t believe God exists, but they do believe that God gave them the land.”

    I think that the biggest hoax being claimed by Israel is that the Arabs refuse to recognize Israel’s right to exist. This is not true …. They refuse to recognize Israel as a “Jewish State” because if they did, they would lose the right of return which is guaranteed under international law. Also, A “Jewish State” would mean that Non-Jews living inside Israel would have less rights then the Jews have.

    When you hear Israel pundits on TV talk, they always intertwine the words “Israel” and “Jewish State” …. but they do not mean the same thing.

    When Olmert and Livni talk about Israel as a “Jewish state”, they mean essentially that it is a state that is for Jewish people, even if they don’t reside or have citizenship there. It would be very handy for them if they could force the Palestinians to accept this definition, because then they could go into final status talks with some of the more intractable issues – like how to resolve the Right of Return – pre-emptively swept off the table. After all, how can Palestinians have a right to return to their homes in a “Jewish state” when they’re not even Jewish, and non-Jews shouldn’t expect to be allowed to live in a “Jewish state” in the first place…

    It is useful to recall that during the “good old years” of negotiations and agreements between Israel and the PLO this was never an issue. Even during the negotiations on “mutual recognition”, Israel never demanded to be recognized as anything other than Israel. Nor was the Jewish nature of the state an issue in later peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan.

    At best, the Zionist claim that Jews around the world constitute one people, rather than constituting a religious community of different peoples, is controversial even among Jews. In addition, the concept of a “Jewish state” contradicts the principles of secularism. Secularists, including Jews, find it difficult to accept basing nationalism on religion. The modern concept of statehood is not compatible with a religious state, at least among seculars. In the same way, there has to be strong resistance to the idea of a state for the Muslim people or a state for the Christian people, especially when such states include non-Muslim or non-Christian minorities.

    It’s Not Just The Palestinians Who Won’t Recognize A “Jewish State”
    May 14, 1948. The context is that the Zionist government has proclaimed a “Jewish state” in Palestine, and is seeking U.S. recognition of that state. The document is President Harry S. Truman’s response to that request.
    The interesting thing is that the original text of the document is edited with hand-written corrections, to produce the wording finally approved by Truman. And the purpose of the editing is specifically to remove the suggestion that the U.S. recognizes a “Jewish state”, and to clarify that it recognizes instead the “state of Israel”.
    How about that: the United States was asked in 1948 to recognize the “Jewish state”, but offered recognition instead to the “state of Israel”. Just as the PLO does today.
    So why exactly is it uncontroversial when we do it, but an obstacle to peace when they do it?

    Here is a picture of the document mentioned above.

    At the Arab Summit in 2007, the Arab leaders offered Israel a peace proposal of “Land For Peace” and even offered negotiate away the Palestinian Right Of Return and all Arab countries would immediately recognize the “State of Israel” (Not the “Jewish State Of Israel”) …. all Israel had to do was move back to the pre-67 borders.

    In 2006, the leadership of Hamas stated “If Israel withdrew to the 1967 borders, including Jerusalem, acknowledges the right of return, lifts its siege, dismantles the settlements and the wall and releases the prisoners, then it is possible for us as Palestinians and Arabs to make a serious step to match the Zionist step”.

    Is Israel Unique
    By Mazin Qumsiyeh
    June 09, 2005
    To get papers of citizenship all they have to do is show up in the state and claim their automatic citizenship. The closest to this in the last 100 years of world history is Nazi Germany which instituted laws that recognized that all Aryan people whose mother tongue is German are nationals of the third Reich even if they happen to be then citizens of say Poland or Serbia. To my knowledge there is no Christian or Muslim majority country (not even US-backed dictatorial regimes with religious laws like Saudi Arabia) today that recognized that anybody who is Muslim or Christian or convert to those religions could get automatic citizenship. Israel is simply not “Jewish” like there are “Christian” states. No “Christian state” has a national anthem that even comes close to the Israeli one that sings of Jewish hearts yearning for Eretz Yisrael, the land of Israel. How would one feel if the US national anthem was about Christians yearning for our manifest destiny of ruling this Christian nation?

    Israel is unique among the nations in not being a country of its citizens but of “Jewish people everywhere”. No other country defines itself as a country for members of a particular religion (including converts) regardless of where they live. No other country has supranational entities that have authority superceding state authority and native people rights. For example, the JNF is not a state agency but it has on its own website the amazing statement that “The Jewish National Fund is the custodian of the land of Israel on behalf of its owners Jewish people everywhere.” 91% of the land (most taken from the 530 Palestinian towns and villages depopulated between 1947-1949) is not privately owned but turned over from the custodian of “absentee property” to the JNF (Jewish Agency before) for lease by Jews. More recently some of this land was turned over for “management” by the Israel Lands authority. I am very familiar with the latter group’s “work” with the Israeli government in reclassifying Palestinian lands (including near my own village) to “Green areas” (or taking over areas classified as military Zones) and then reclassifying them as “residential” and then building Jewish only settlements/colonies on them.

    Another basic law denies refugees the right to return to their lands and confiscates land without compensation (so called “absentee property law”). So far 2/3rds of the native Palestinians are refugees and displaced people (all simply for being of the wrong religion). I say so far because this is a continuing process. Just in the past 4 years alone 35,000 more Palestinians were made homeless by home demolitions and land confiscations.

    Other basic laws define Israel as Jewish-dominated in more hidden ways and result in lack of equality to non-Jews in the state. After the expulsion of 3/4th of the native Palestinians the 1/4th who managed to stay were subjected to Marshal law between 1948-1966. Even after 1966, they were not integrated in the society and remain as foreigners in their own lands. Since they do not get drafted into the army like other Israeli citizens, a number of laws do not specifically give preference to Jews but to those who serve in the army. Further Israeli law considers one fourth of those people (about 300,000 of the 1.3 million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship) as “present absentees”. This means that their land and/or homes were confiscated from them and turned to the Jewish Agency/JNF. By international law they are considered internally displaced people (refugees).

    Israel uniqueness extends to hundreds of other ways that other countries do not have access to. For example, countries are divided into those who declared themselves nuclear powers and those that did not and signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. Israel is well known to have nuclear weapons (hundreds) but never signed this treaty or agreed to non-proliferation let alone international inspections.

  15. Larry Carney said on May 31st, 2008 at 6:47am #

    Israel’s land grab and murder reminds me of the Bible story of King Ahab and Jezebel, taking the vineyard from his neighbor…similarity?

  16. Giorgio said on June 1st, 2008 at 4:35pm #

    Thank you Calm, your post is an eye-opener!
    As for the Jewish joke, I would just add the phrase after it:
    “Many Jews don’t believe God exists, but they do believe that God gave them the land” in His last Will and Testament, just before He kicked the bucket…

  17. Giorgio said on June 1st, 2008 at 4:44pm #

    * ….and ceased to exist….

  18. zhann said on June 4th, 2008 at 8:03am #

    Calm, that is a well written piece. I agree with a great deal of it, but I think that some of it is a bit disproportional. With regards to the holocaust, there is a difference between questioning events during WWII and questioning the holocaust in general. Jews are sensitive about this subject much the same way African American’s are sensitive about Slavery, where as slavery was abolished about 150 years ago. The scars of the holocaust are still a bit raw, and it will be at least a few more generations before those directly affected pass. I do agree, however, that often times emphasis on this event is a bit hypocritical, but I think that your comment “but your not “Allowed” to discuss/investigate/question the holocaust” is a bit misleading.

    Now, I have to shift back towards my original point … people far too often voice their opinions without knowing enough about the facts, nor about what is really going on. What you wrote was well thought out, but have you really given much thought to your statement “ … all Israel had to do was move back to the pre-67 borders“? Honestly, I think you trivialized this a little. Moving back to the pre ’67 borders is not just impossible, it is just wrong on many levels. For starters, you are forgiving all the atrocities committed by Arabs since then, which is anything but trivial. Likewise, giving up Jerusalem is … well … out of the question. You must remember that this is a democratic nation, not a dictatorship. No Israeli would ever agree to that, and no elected official would ever openly agree either.

    I still think that the problem is that we have two polar extremes. On the one hand, we have the Arabs and people that frequent this site … on the other, we have the Jews that refuse to make concessions and build settlement to this day. Neither of the two groups are willing to acknowledge the other sides demands for fear of loosing too much of their own interests. The pre 67 borders, for example, is a mute point … but Palestinians will not accept it. The right of return for everyone simultaneously is also out of the question, for it would completely imbalance the country. What needs to be done is something in the middle … something that neither side will agree to outright, but for lack of a better solution they will have to consolidate. Another very important aspect is for people with little knowledge of what is going on, relying simply on Mass Media for their daily propaganda, need to either educate themselves before shouting their opinions in the streets, or participate in conversations with a little more leniency to both sides (this holds true in almost every conflict, not just Israel/Palestine). Blogging has empowered the world to make their voices heard, which is great. However, those that shout the loudest are often those with the least to say.

  19. Calm said on June 4th, 2008 at 9:39am #

    Hi! Zhann

    What your sayin’ is that facts have changed on the ground since 1967.

    Here we are 60 years after the Hitler-Trip and Jewish Folks are still entering courthouses across this universe and insisting on justice and the “Right-Of-Return” of stolen artifacts, property and jewels confiscated by Hitler and The Clowns.

    I think that the Palestinian people deserve the same “Right-Of-Return” and the same sense of justice that the Jewish Folks insisted upon in every courthouse in the land.

    Never once did I hear any Jewish Person suggest that the “Facts Had Changed On The Ground” and thus the Jews we’re not entitled to compensation for losses incurred under Hitler … but this is the claim that the Jewish Folks make with the Palestinian People and their “Right-Of-Return”.

    With the recent discovery of mass graves in the Sinai as a result Israeli atrocities carried out during the ‘67 war against Egyptian soldiers, …. the Israelis have refused to put any officers on trial, saying it was all too long ago.

    This is not what the Jewish folks claim as they themselves still enter courtrooms across this universe and demand accountability for Hitler’s crimes.

    “If I were to be put on trial for what I did, then it would be necessary to put on trial at least one-half the Israeli army which, in similar circumstances, did what I did.”
    –Israeli Brig. Gen. Aryeh Biro, who admitted to killing hundereds of unresisting Egyptians–

    How can the dummy solve problems created by the ventriloquist?

    What really puts me over the edge is that at the same time (1948-1949) when the world was parading pictures of holocaust survivors within the media, the Prime Minister of the newly formed government of Israel was promoting and encouraging a holocaust against the Palestinian’s.

    David Ben-Gurion, once said to his General Staff ….

    “We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”
    –David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978–

    That is almost exactly what Hitler said when speaking about the Jewish Folks!

    And worse ….. Ben-Gurion said this at the same time that our media was parading holocaust victims across the universe and showing Jewish Folks crying and screaming “Never Again”.

    In 1948, with Hitler dead less then 2 years, …. At the very heart of the newly formed country of Israel, …. at the highest levels of government, …. within the Israeli cabinet, the Jewish folks were actually talking about committing a holocaust or committing the exact same crimes as Hitler was being chastised for.

    “Neither Jewish morality nor Jewish tradition can be used to disallow terror as a means of war… We are very far from any moral hesitations when concerned with the national struggle. First and foremost, terror is for us a part of the political war appropriate for the circumstances of today…”
    –Yitzhak shamir–

    Israel’s Long-Term Ethnic Cleansing and Institutionalized Racism
    1800: 2.5% Jews, 89% Arabs
    1890: 8% Jews, 81% Arabs
    1914: 14% Jews, 76% Arabs
    1922: 11% Jews, 78% Arabs
    1931: 17% Jews, 74% Arabs
    1945: 31% Jews, 60% Arabs
    2006: 76% Jews, 20% Arabs

    I think the folks of Israel should hang their heads in shame and quit giving us the daily dose of holocaust guilt because they themselves are found to have been committing a holocaust against the Arab People.

    During the Hitler-Trip, Jews were seen behind electric fences and barbed wire and today the Israeli’s have done exactly the same thing to the Palestinan People and with the building of the wall or barrier.

    These despicable Israeli activities are an exact replication of its past sorrowful and sordid history during Hitler’s reign! What gruesome and loathing hypocrites they are!

    I and the public know
    What all schoolchildren learn,
    Those to whom evil is done
    Do evil in return.
    –W.H. Auden–

    What do cockroaches and evil in people have in common? When exposed they both run for cover. Political Correctness is the cloak that protects evil. And remember that Truth is hate to those who hate the Truth.
    –Greg Evensen–

    We mustn’t forget that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish.

    In 1934, according to published statistics, 38.5 percent of those holding the most senior posts in the Soviet security apparatuses were of Jewish origin. Stalin’s Jews were very influential and held top advisory posts within Stalin’s government and which facilitated mass murder (a holocaust) against many religions (including christians) across Europe.

    In Rwanda, our media sold the recent holocaust which took place there as one “religious” tribe against the other. But, it was that one tribe was seen to have greater wealth and greater access to power and resentment bubbled to the surface within the complete culture or society.

    In olden days when crusades and stuff like that were taking place, there were death marches against the Jews because of their religion. But in modern times, I believe that 99% of death marches against the Jews was a form of Class Warfare and nothing to do with religion. It is sold to us as Religious Warfare because if a death can be blamed upon religion, then there are “Victims” …. but if the death is blamed upon “Snobs”, then it might be seen as being well deserved.

    The Jews attempted to duplicate the identical trip they pulled of with Stalin and The Boys during the fall of the U.S.S.R.

    The Oligarchs
    Or How the Virgin Became a Whore
    In popular parlance they are called “oligarchs”–from the Greek word meaning “rule of the few”.
    The “oligarchs” are a tiny group of entrepreneurs who exploited the disintegration of the Soviet system to loot the treasures of the state and to amass plunder amounting to hundreds of billions of dollars. In order to safeguard the perpetuation of their business, they took control of the state.
    Six out of the seven are Jews.
    At the time, President Boris Yeltsin was in a steep decline. On the eve of the new elections for the presidency, his rating in public opinion polls stood at 4%. He was an alcoholic with a severe heart disease, working about two hours a day. The state was, in practice, ruled by his bodyguard and his daughter; corruption was the order of the day.
    The oligarchs decided to take power through him. They had almost unlimited funds, control of all TV channels and most of the other media. They put all these at the disposal of Yeltsin’s reelection campaign, denying his opponents even one minute of TV time and pouring huge sums of money into the effort. (The series omits an interesting detail: they secretly brought over the most outstanding American election experts and copywriters, who applied methods previously unknown in Russia.)
    By Uri Avnery
    August 03, 2004

    Mikhail Khodorkovsky

    Boris Berezovsky appointed himself Prime Minister of Russia and boasts that he caused the war in Chechnya, in which tens of thousands have been killed and a whole country devastated. He has now fled Russia and is living in Britian.

    Vladimir Gusinsky is in Israel

    Mikhail Chernoy

    And speaking of christians ….

    The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, and who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history.

    There are less than 5 million Jews in America or comprise of less than 2% of the population and yet they hold an inordinate amount of influence within the media and hold 35% or more of senior positions withing the Bush administration.

    Compare this with The Cradle Of Christianity which is Jerusalem and where 10% of the Israeli population are christians and yet none hold senior positions within the Israeli government. In fact it is illegal for christians to proselytize in Israel and many christians inside Israel are being spat upon and just recently orthodox Jews were found burning New Testament bibles.

    [For an Israeli] to talk about peace is like a Whorehouse holding a convention about love.
    –JohD, November 15, 2003–


  20. zhann said on June 6th, 2008 at 12:59pm #

    Hello again Calm. Honestly, I think you are comparing apples and oranges when comparing Hitler’s tactics against the Jews to those of the Jews against the Palestinians. You must remember that the Jews had done nothing to Hitler to incite his wrath. However, nothing remotely similar can be said for the Palestinians.

    If you were to argue that the Palestinians were simply caught in the crossfire between the Jews and the Arabs, that would be one thing … although, it would be wrong on a different level. Your argument is that the Jews are simply cleansing the Palestinians while the poor Palestinian people are doing nothing but peacefully praying to Allah to save them. You must understand that this is a poor argument.

    It is important to remember that this conflict is anything but 60 years old, as your population ratio timeline suggests. This conflict has been going on for quite some time, and blood has been shed on both sides. It is also important to remember that Jews have been scattered throughout the world, while Palestinians have always been in one place. Hence, when mass immigration of Jews started taking place in the mid 19th century, this did a great deal to sway the population ratio into Jewish favor. Your argument doesn’t mention that, and simply claims that the Jews have been exterminating the Palestinians since then.

    It is also important to take into account the fact that after Israel’s independence the entire Arab nation attacked the Jews promising to wipe them off the map (primarily why everyone acknowledges a return to the ’67 borders). According to Jewish history (of course, this can be debated), the Arabs asked Palestinians to willfully leave their land so that the extermination of the Jews would cause fewer Palestinian casualties. Since then (and a great deal before), there has been a constant war going on within Israel. The ‘land grabs’ by Israeli’s were both strategic (Golan Heights, Gaza, etc) as well as politically motivated (settlements).

    Honestly, it is very difficult for Americans (and Westerners in general) to understand what it is like to live in a war zone. I understand that usually sympathy always lies with the loosing side, but it is important to understand that Palestinians are anything but followers of Gandhi. The Palestinians, along with Arabs from all over, have been bombarding Israel for these 60 years. There isn’t much of a lull in the violence from their end. There were a few years of peace ‘like’ interactions, but no one was willing to give in on their demands, and hence violence sprung up again (personally, I believe this violence was greatly provoked from the Jewish end, but regardless it has gone way too far).

    I am in no way condoning all of Israel’s actions over the last 60 years. There are those that have done atrocious things that need to be answered. The policies of the state aren’t helping a great deal these days either, especially with the expansion of settlements. However, to claim that the Palestinians are innocent people being terrorized by the evil Jewish Machine is ludicrous. How much does Palestine’s elected government (Hamas) have to answer for? How many suicide bombings? … How many rockets? … How many mass murders? … Why is this simply ignored? There is a fine line between Freedom Fighters and Terrorists … however, Hamas and Palestinian Militants (as well as other Arab Militants) have not just crossed this line, they ran past it, continue to run and haven’t even looked back.

  21. Calm said on June 7th, 2008 at 11:43am #

    Zhann Said:
    You must remember that the Jews had done nothing to Hitler to incite his wrath.

    My Reply:
    Long before Hitler and The Clowns opened up the gas chambers, the Jews had declared a “Holy War” against Germany. The Jews had asked the world to boycott German goods and the Jews were inciting riots and unrest inside Germany.

    The Jewish Declaration of War on Nazi Germany – The Economic Boycott of 1933
    The Barnes Review
    January/February 2001

    The Role Of Zionism In The Holocaust
    By Rabbi Gedalya Liebermann

    Plus; All Europeans knew and remembered that Stalin’s Jews had committed a holocaust against 30 million people across Europe and as a direct result, during the subsequent Nazi occupation of Eastern Europe, the region’s innocent Jews became the target of ferocious revenge by Ukrainians, Balts and Poles.

    The souls of those killed Stalin’s Jews and the millions of victims still cry out for justice.

    The European’s watched the Rich Folks flaunt their richness all during the roaring 20’s and then during the 30’s the Poor Folks were selling their jewels and family heirlooms at pawnshops which were owned by the Jews and Gypsies. The population of Europe and not just Germany were tired of such a small population of Jews having such control and influence within their society. With a little encouragement and organization from Hitler and The Clowns, the people of Germany set out to hang all the Rich Folks (and their friends) from lamp posts.

    Zhann Said:
    If you were to argue that the Palestinians were simply caught in the crossfire between the Jews and the Arabs, that would be one thing … although, it would be wrong on a different level.

    My Reply:
    The actions of Palestinians occur in a context in which all of their rights are already under the control of their occupier, Israel, and can be violated at its whim. This means that it is problematic, from a human rights perspective, to place the weight of culpability on the Palestinians without laying far greater weight at the same time on the situation to which the Palestinians are reacting.

    The Right to Resistance According to International Law
    By Hans Lebrecht
    April 03, 2002

    Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977.


  22. Calm said on June 7th, 2008 at 11:48am #

    This is the best lecture I have viewed concerning the Israel/Palestine conflict.

    Israel and Palestine: Roots of Conflict, Prospects for Peace
    Independent scholar and author, Norman Finkelstein, explains why, contrary to common perceptions shaped by the commercial news media, the basic facts about the Israel-Palestine conflict are not controversial.
    The barrier wall, settlements, East Jerusalem are all illegal under International Law and The World Court. Vote 14 and 1 dissent.
    By Norman G. Finkelstein
    May 08, 2008
    Part I of II
    (Google Video)

    Part II of II
    Question And Answer
    (Google Video)

  23. zhann said on June 9th, 2008 at 8:58am #

    Calm, let me say that you are among the few people that have something intelligent to say about this subject without a ‘completely’ biased twist, but you do manage to selectively leave out facts. I still hold to my original point that the problem here lies within the bias that has been spread, rather than the facts that are laid out, and both sides (Israel/Palestine) are gravely at fault.

    Your arguments are valid, but I must counter. What Stalin’s Jews did was a direct order of Stalin himself, so blaming the Jews for what Stalin decided to do is a bit unfair. Of course, his Jewish advisors may have had a hand in much of Stalin’s terrors, but you must also be aware that leading up to WWII the vast majority of his advisors, Jews of course, were slaughtered by him. Next, blaming the Jews for making money is … well, like blaming a farmer for growing crops. Jews have a fascination with money … or so it seems. This has a lot to do with upbringing and the Jewish Society. Because Jews were scattered, they grew a very close bond to one another, almost counter intuitive. Jews are much quicker to help Jews than any other race would help their own race today. I am under the impression that your description of ‘why’ Hitler chose the Jews as a target is simply a motive, and not a justifiable reason. I am sure Hitler had many motives, and you could probably take any one of them and say “See, because of XXX Hitler attacked the jews, so it was Their fault”, but of course that has about as much validity as someone killing someone else because they got cut off on a highway. By the way, you also ignored Germany’s poor economy on its failure during WWI, which is kind of important.

    As for the Palestinians, you have again ignored what they do and instead simply lay blame on the Jews. Again, I agree that the Israeli’s often cross the line when handling the Palestinians, but this is an outside perspective. I can guarantee you that if you lived inside Israel, your tune would be different. You may not condone all of Israel’s actions, but you would definitely show more leniency to them. You have to understand that the Jews are in fact defending their interests. If the Palestinians were to cease the violence, things would change from the Israeli side … if not immediately by Israeli efforts, then by the international community when it is obvious that the fighting is one sided. Today, the world is truly divided on this issue, and for good reason. How would you feel if Native American’s started blowing themselves up in the streets demanding that all American’s leave their land? Would you leave? To be honest, Native American’s have far more right to the USA than the Palestinians do to Israel. Would you condone the US’s use of force against such a group of Native Americans?

    Again, my only intention in posting is for people to understand that blame on this issue can not be pasted to one side or the other … they are both equally responsible for this problem, and neither of them are doing anything to fix it. People, like the ones on this site, aren’t helping the situation. They are simply pouring salt on wounds, and encouraging the battle to go on. It is time for people to acknowledge that both sides are at fault, both sides need to make concessions, and both sides MUST end the violence.

  24. Calm said on June 9th, 2008 at 9:51am #

    Hi! Zhann

    Zhann Wrote:
    What Stalin’s Jews did was a direct order of Stalin himself, so blaming the Jews for what Stalin decided to do is a bit unfair.

    My Reply:
    I thought that when the German’s tried this excuse (I was only following orders) during the Nuremberg trials, it was rejected.

    Zhann Wrote:
    you must also be aware that leading up to WWII the vast majority of his advisors, Jews of course, were slaughtered by him.

    My Reply:
    Yes! I’m aware that Stalin killed many of the Jewish participants to the atrocities, but perhaps that was doing the world a favour and the last thing Stalin needed were witnesses to the holocaust “performed” by these Jews.

    I never said that the Palestinian’s were completely innocent. As a Palestinian supporter, I chose to deal with those crimes and injustices carried out by the Jewish Folks and to show that they wear a badge of guilt. I’ll leave it up to the Israeli supporters to detail any guilt which the Palestinian’s must wear.

    I’m simply tired of the bullsh?t that the Jewish Folks keep giving us and the holocaust guilt they heap upon us.

    I was born in 1948 and after the Jewish holocaust and thus I feel no guilt at all. My conscience is clear.

    I’m tired of the Jewish Folks pretending that they are all a bunch of innocents who are just out in the fields of the world herding their sheep and for no reasons at all they are attacked and ridiculed.

    I’m very unhappy with the inordinate amount of influence that a mere 15 or 20 million people have within the world. It stuns me that such a small population continues to hold the world hostage and threaten the world with a nuclear war ….. and with such a religious fevor.

    I don’t think that there is much more I can comment upon. It was nice meeting you.

    Keep Smilin’ and don’t let ‘yer mouse byte yuh!