Dissenting at Your Own Risk

Last year, I agreed to speak to a Jewish youth group about my organization, Jewish Voice for Peace, and our opposition to Israel’s occupation. My talk was to follow one from a member of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which calls itself “America’s pro-Israel Lobby.”

A week before, a shaken program leader said the AIPAC staffer had threatened to get the entire youth program’s funding canceled if I was allowed in the door. The threat worked, and in disgust, they canceled the whole talk.

Pundits will surely argue for years about professors Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer’s explosive new book, The Israel Lobby, which blames poor U.S. policy in the Middle East on a loose network of individuals and pro-Israel advocacy groups.

But the book, and the response to it, opens up another controversy: the stifling of debate about unconditional U.S. support for Israeli policies.

Why is Israel’s increasingly brutal 40-year occupation of Palestinian land regularly debated in the mainstream media abroad, including in Israel, but not here? And why is there an almost total lack of discussion among presidential candidates about the dollars that subsidize this occupation and the American diplomatic support that makes it possible?

In a society built on the free exchange of ideas, as Walt and Mearsheimer point out, one answer can be found by looking at the many self-appointed gatekeepers, such as Abraham Foxman and the Anti-Defamation League, or Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, who use their Jewish identity as both a shield and cudgel. They work diligently to silence those who question ill-conceived policies of the Israeli and U.S. governments.

Non-Jewish critics, even former President Carter, are denounced as anti-Semites. Special ire is reserved for Jewish dissenters, who are branded as “self-hating” or “marginal,” while Muslim and Arab-Americans are easily smeared and even criminalized with charges of supporting terrorism.

Stunned by the stifling of dissent, we decided to start a Web site, Muzzlewatch, to track the incidents. Just as we launched, Stanford Middle East Studies Professor Joel Beinin was disinvited from a speaking engagement at a high school with just 24 hours’ notice.

After an unprecedented campaign of outside interference waged by Dershowitz, Professor Norman Finkelstein was refused tenure by DePaul University because of his criticism of U.S.-Israeli policy.

Palestinian-American anthropologist Nadia Abu El-Haj is fighting a political campaign to deny her tenure at Barnard.

Even Walt and Mearsheimer, who are getting plenty of exposure, couldn’t have asked for better proof of their point that the lobby works to stifle dissent when an embarrassed head of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs told them that their scheduled speech was canceled. (They did speak before the World Affairs Council of Dallas/Fort Worth on Sept. 17.) This was apparently because Foxman was not available that day to “balance” their talk.

(They had initially been booked by themselves. The talk was not rescheduled.)

Many groups that started with the important work of fighting real anti-Semitism now rely on anti-Semitism to insist that to show one’s love of Jews, one must offer uncritical support to Israel. They are especially displeased by Jews who believe that enabling Israeli violations of Palestinian human rights is not good for anyone.

Unless this atmosphere of intimidation is confronted, Americans will continue to lack access to information and perspectives necessary to formulate effective Middle East policies, virtually ensuring that Israel and the United States will be at war for many years to come.

A podcast of Walt and Mearsheimer’s presentation, ‘The Israel Lobby,’ is available here.

Cecilie Surasky is communications director for the Oakland-based Jewish Voice for Peace. Read other articles by Cecilie, or visit Cecilie's website.

35 comments on this article so far ...

Comments RSS feed

  1. Gary Corseri said on October 4th, 2007 at 10:51am #

    Thanks for the personal account, Cecile.

    This suppression of freedom of dissent is one of the major factors in the unraveling of our democracy.

    When Foxman and Dershowitz use a term like “anti-Semitic” to discredit their critics, they show that they have learned a trick or two from Hitler and Goebbels: Turn the meaning of words and phrases inside-out so legitimate criticism has no sticking place–and any meaningful dialogue is crushed. One possible way to get around this is for Jews and other critics of Israel (and America’s unflinching support of Israel) to clearly emphasize that they are anti-Zionist, and that, in fact, they can hardly be charged with “anti-Semitism” when they defend the rights of Palestinians because Palestinians are at least as “Semitic” as modern-day Jews!

    Goebbels’ words have been noted before, but they’re worth citing again:

    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

  2. Hatuxka said on October 4th, 2007 at 10:52am #

    Thank you for your work. I have brought up the Walt and Mearsheimer points in online forums (I am about 20 pages from the end of the book) and get the exact same treatment as other non-Jewish critics of the Lobby or Israel itself. Hitler, Stalin, Mel Gibson and David Duke are those I have been compared to for reciting facts from the book. (Stalin’s foreign minister before the pact w/ Hitler was Jewish, so I thought that was especially out there.) All from professed liberals. But these same “liberal” people are in league with hard righties when they attack on this issue.

  3. jaime said on October 4th, 2007 at 12:37pm #

    The label of antisemitism as a “cudgel” and masking obvious antisemitism as anti-Zionism are, alas, no longer the useful dodges they once were, as more academics and the public in general perceive these as simply “devices” used to deflect criticism of semi-hidden loaded agendas, double standards and affiliation with and support for terrorism and bigotry.

    For instance, there was a time with ISM (International Solidarity Movement )activists could pass themselves off as “peace” activists. However as it became known that ISM has given aid and comfort to suicide bomber extremists, interferes with military defense of a civilian population (if it’s Israel) in the face of terror attacks; mainstream groups and media who support the idea of Palestinian homeland dismiss them as extremists.

    Similarly, this “cudgel” concept, largely popularized by such as disgraced former professor Norman Finkelstein loses potency when the public understands Finkelstein and his supporters’ relationships with violent organizations like Hezbollah.

    Instead of pissing and moaning about “Israel’s increasingly brutal 40-year occupation of Palestinian land,” wake up and read your daily news. Israel and the Abbas regime are trying to sort out something. Why not support and refine that effort instead of blaming one party all the time? Otherwise you have no credibility with intelligent people.

  4. hp said on October 4th, 2007 at 1:29pm #

    Speaking of pissing, I guess that’s an automatic response by the IDF now, whenever the name Hezbollah comes up.
    That’s the first thing they’re going to have to “sort out.”

  5. jaime said on October 4th, 2007 at 2:02pm #

    The struggle for peace and justice continues…

    hp wrote:

    https://www.dissidentvoice.org/2007/09/the-road-to-pieces/

    “I would weed out all the spies and traitors to America and put them in front of a firing squad.”

  6. Chris Driscoll said on October 4th, 2007 at 2:25pm #

    In reply to Mr. jaime, who all will notice doesn’t even give us his last name, and who knows if “jaime” is even his real first name, the insinuation that Hezbollah is the source of violence in Palestine and Lebanon and that the Zionist government in Palestine shares no responsibility is a laughable stance to take. Raining bombs on innocent Palestinian and Lebanese babies from the skies above is no less a form of terrorism than is the delivery of bombs strapped to one’s body, in fact, it is a far more lethal variety of terrorism. Let’s face the fact that war is based on terrorism and as long as the Zionist government and its colonialist European settler state occupying Palestine dishes it out, the victims will try their best, with their limited resources, to dish it back. If you can’t stand the dish, stop feeding it to others!

    For decades, we in the United States have been feed a steady diet of Zionist propaganda, to the point where many do accept the anti-democratic idea that Palestine should be partitioned into a larger state that grants freedom and democratic rights only to the minority, the Jews, and to the majority of Palestinians, a much smaller, extremely fragmented Apartheid-style group of Bantustans totally surrounded by high fences, that the Zionists call a Palestinian Homeland with the same kind of devilish grin South African “Nationalists” (otherwise known as the fascists the Zionists had so close a relationship with) flashed when they talked about homelands for the majority Black population of South Africa.

    Not only is that kind of “two-state” strategy unacceptable to most Palestinians I am familiar with, it is a prescription for the continuance of the violence in perpetuity. Despite the propaganda diet of lies and deception, we Americans believe in democracy, in separation of church and state and in equality. The Zionist government in Palestine, to the contrary, believes in combination of church and state (one of their cabinet positions, in fact, is put aside exclusively for a Jewish religious leader, and many of their laws are drawn straight from the Hebrew scriptures; it also believes in a host of undemocratic ideals, such as the ideal that Jews when arriving in Palestine, become citizens immediately, while Palestinian Muslims and Christians whose ancestors lived in Palestine for centuries are denied the rights of citizens; and the Zionist state believes and enshrines into law the idea that Jews are above Palestinian Muslims and Christians in every way, starting with the most important idea opposed to equality, that the Zionist state is a “Jewish State.” I doubt that the Palestinian Christians, Muslims and atheists feel very “equal” in a country whose state and governmental apparatus are claimed to by Jewish from the getgo.

    I have become convinced that Palestine will not be free of the Zionist violence visited upon it for the last 6 decades until the international community steps in and paves the way for free democratic elections based on one-person-one-vote leading to a single-democratic state that represents all of Palestine’s residents and all of those who have been ethnically cleansed by the Zionists and driven out in the last 60 years.

    Zionism’s closest relative in a political sense is fascism. All one need do is to look at some of the Zionist’s closest allies over the years, like the fascists in Lebanon that were founded there by NAZI agents sent by Hitler in the 1930s, and the “Nationalists” in South Africa, who were also founded in the 1930s by agents of Hitler. Like their NAZI cousins, I believe that Zionism has proved to be such an inherently racist ideology that it should be shunned in the same way we shun fascism. It is my hope that in the aftermath of free democratic elections in Palestine, imposed if necessary by the world community, that the democratic Palestinian government will outlaw Zionist organizations in the same way Germany outlawed NAZI organizations. Organizations based on racism, ethnic cleansing and terrorism against innocent babies refuse to play by democratic rules, and they should therefore not be allowed to use democracy for their own anti-democratic ends.

    Mr. Jaime, “intelligent people” can see the difference between democracy and a religious-based Apartheid regime whose ethnic cleansing strategies have caused misery and suffering for millions, whose terrorist war campaigns launch high-explosive missiles against teenagers armed with sticks and stones, and whose idea of equality is no less morally repugnant than the “no coloreds allowed” signs strewn across the old “Jim Crow” south, although it is far more brutal and violent.

    I have to admit that over the close to 4 decades of my adult life, I have always known about the despicable apartheid character of the Zionist regime in Palestine, and I have often avoided speaking out against it because there were always so many pressing social and economic justice issues at home to contend with, and I didn’t want to close off the possibility of working with good Jewish people who support democracy, equality and justice in every other way save for their illogical support of fascist Zionism. They never ever paid me the same courtesy, always instead making sure to push their Zionist ideas at every opportunity. It’s not that I did not support the Palestinian struggle for justice, freedom, democracy and equality, I did, going to pro-Palestinian demonstrations and rallies when I could, but I tried to avoid confrontations with Zionists whenever I could as well.

    That was my mistake, I know now. The fascist-racist nature of Zionism, I have come to realize, should only be met with one unified response, condemnation!

    Sincerely,
    Chris Driscoll

  7. jaime said on October 4th, 2007 at 2:42pm #

    A million errors. Or deliberate distortions. Take your pick.

    – “the insinuation that Hezbollah is the source of violence”

    Well, yeah…they’re the ones whose charter calls for extermination of other people. The Israelis and I want a 2 state solution.

    – “the Zionist government in Palestine shares no responsibility”

    – Not at all. They’re currently negotiating with Abbas and his regime.

    – “Raining bombs on innocent Palestinian and Lebanese babies from the skies”

    Hezbollah attacked Israel last sunmmer. Israel shot back. Where were you?

    – “a much smaller, extremely fragmented Apartheid-style group of Bantustans”

    Well then you must be hanging out with Hamas. Their plans are for genocide. And it’s totally impractical to envision the one state dream. You can’t forge a democratic country that includes a segment of the population bent on killing the others.

    No. The concept is two states, one Palestinian, and one Jewish side-by-side. Now complicated by Hamas in Gaza refusing to recognize Israel or make an accord with the Abbas Regime. That apartheid bantustan stuff is just a lot of hateful hooey.
    “two-state” strategy unacceptable to most Palestinians I am familiar with”

    -“Palestinian Muslims and Christians whose ancestors lived in Palestine for centuries are denied the rights of citizens”

    Well they don’t have a right of return to Israel, and they haven’t got a formal Palestinian state yet.

    -“Zionism’s closest relative in a political sense is fascism”

    That’s a filthy racist lie and a libel. Blaming the victims of fascism themselves. Shame on you!

  8. Kim Petersen said on October 4th, 2007 at 4:43pm #

    Chris,
    You gave a reasoned response with facts to a person who ignores reason and conjures up his(?) own pseudo-facts. The undeniable fact is that Ashkenazis from Europe invaded, murdered, raped, and dispossessed the Indigneous People of historical Palestine. Therefore, support for a Zionist state is support for racism and genocide. People who support such are without shame and cannot be reasoned with.

  9. jaime said on October 4th, 2007 at 6:03pm #

    Great! That was from the editor.

    OK Mr. Petersen,

    The Zionists BOUGHT land when they arrived. If you have evidence that they were conquistadors or vikings, show us.

    Likewise dispossession, other than in a defensive war resisting annihilation. Likewise rape.

    Rape of Palestinians by Jews or Jewish soldiers is unheard of.

    You don’t have to reason with me. You made these assertions. Show your believers the evidence.

  10. Deadbeat said on October 4th, 2007 at 6:14pm #

    Therefore, support for a Zionist state is support for racism and genocide.

    And this is the very point of why Zionism much be confronted especially in the United States. Zionism was able to flourish here because the one thing that the United States cannot come to grips with is racism. Racism is THE main reason the conditions in the United Stated was able to swing to the right. The white working class voted their race when they voted for Reagan in 1980 and had been voting that way ever since.

    The war in Iraq and Katrina may have opened some eyes but still the issue of race that is the enemy of solidarity persist and the racism of the 21st Century — Zionism — is barely discussed much less challenged.

    I commend Dissent Voice for these forums that have exposed a very deep seated problem as it exist not only in the Middle East but especially here in the U.S.

  11. Kim Petersen said on October 4th, 2007 at 7:00pm #

    Read Jewish Israeli history professor Ilan Pappe’s recent book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. It is filled with facts .

  12. iyamwutiam said on October 4th, 2007 at 9:26pm #

    The question was asked – whats one to do-
    I have a unique and very powerful solution .
    I have stated this idea many times – and will do so again in the hopes of it being noticed and getting some traction. As we know – any meaningful form of protest is blacked out by the media – the latest example being September 15th- the fact that hundreds of thousands have been showing up regularly since 2002 to protest the war and all its accoutrements (such as the patriot act etc) is simply blacked out by the mainstream media.
    Despite committed organizations such as moveon.org, code pink etc – we find ourselves more under siege and laws are twisted and stretched to interpret any dissent as an excuse to taser or imprison US citizens whose roots are unquestionable. I beseech everyone and anyone out there – to do the only protest this country which is being engulfed by callous cannibalistic avarice can understand. The protest would require all Americans who wish to regain or at the very least send notice to the government that we are not with out a powerful weapon of dissent that is completely non-violent and completely legal.
    That weapon would be the withdrawal of funds from the US banking system. If coordinated properly – this will cause so much distress in the credit and cash machinery of the country – that I am SURE the truth will be not only unveiled but enforced. What is that truth!! The truth that general US population (us) is going out and giving the government and its corporate accomplices funds to imprison us and have a double standard (one for the corporations and one for the common man)). So what can ‘we’ do about it- and how meaningful would this be!
    The government requires bank to keep 0 percent (yes ZERO percent) to 3 percent on hand (reserves) – so a bank could loan up $100,000 with nothing in the vault as you get up there the number tops out at 10 percent – yes – only ten percent when you want to loan out millions!! This is TRUE!! See here: http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/reservereq.htm#table1
    This means that if we can concertedly remove a significant sum of money (say 100,000 people and associated organizations and unions (example teachers unions, nursing, UAW – members of code pink, move on, etc) we can unequivocally paralyze the ‘assets’ of this country (since the assets of this country is OUR money). For example say there were 2,000,000 people who could –on average- remove $10,000 from their checking/savings account that would be $20,000,000 billion dollars removed from the system which in actuality would be close to $ 1,800,000,000,000 (YES – its TRUE – 1.8 trillion dollars!!!) – since the banks multiply this number out by 90 when they loan it out- this is why Morgan Stanley, Citigroup etc are said to have assets in the trillions of dollars. The entire FICTION of how much money they have would be revealed in fell swoop and the US citizen is BACK in charge.
    Like North Rock or any other bank – these ‘deposits’ are not counted as assets BUT liabilities (it’s true –go ask your local bank branch manager) – while Loans – are called ‘assets’. In short- since the bank will NEED cash – they MUST liquidate profitable loans (like mortgages/business loans) in order to have cash on hand for their other customers. This is WHY every financier is severely panicked when there is a run on the bank – as well as the government.
    In my view – it is an incredibly powerful message and time is NOW – as can be witnessed by the Northern Rock, recent credit crisis, and liquidity crunch – the economy of many so called ‘developed’ countries is painfully over-extended by using the mortgages, mutual funds, stocks, pensions etc of millions of Americans – and then leveraging those to corrupt OUR REPRESENTATIVES. No wonder they don’t pay attention to us and feel that they may imprison, silence and most importantly increasing reveal their contempt by not responding to their constituents’ genuine concerns. Once and for all the truth will be revealed – as to who are the parasites and who must be the hosts. This is very similar to Socrates argument of the shepherd and the flock – if not for the flock the shepherd is destitute.
    OK – so now – we are ACTUALLY starting the most democratic feedback system in the history of the world. Tomorrow – there is talk of accepting a 50 million dollar plea agreement for corporate fraud that the taxpayer gets soaked for -to the tune of 60 BILLION dollars!! This happens all the time in America – Enron, Tyco, Fannie Mae, and Sallie Mae, ALL the healthcare companies have been BUSTED on Medicare fraud in to the billions of dollars. So what happens – this coalition – removes not only savings- but 401Ks, votes for pension funds to be withdrawn – liquidates their stock portfolios – and – the next thing you know – there are 100 trillion dollars REMOVED from the system- again because the system is leverages out 90 times more than it has in it!! The funds won’t go back in till corporate criminals actually PAY the PRICE for white collar crime – !!
    So once again – please someone and anyone spread this around – because I am convinced that we can remove at least 10 billion from the system (which with fractional reserve LENDING – equals close to 1 trillion dollars in assets and then if you add in the hedge funds who borrow against that as well as brokerage – we are talking close to 10 trillion dollars!!!! This silent, legal coordinated protest will surely let the politicians and corporations know that we are a financially literate populace in addition to a humane, educated and concerned one.

  13. jaime said on October 4th, 2007 at 9:54pm #

    Kim Petersen said on October 4th, 2007 at 7:00 pm #

    “Read Jewish Israeli history professor Ilan Pappe’s recent book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. It is filled with facts .”

    Okay, but for the record, Mr. Petersen did not yet prove his assertions above of rape and violent dispossession by Zionists. Similarly he offered nothing to contradict the fact that when the original Zionist settlers arrived in the Middle east they bought land, rather than conquering it by force of arms.

    So we’ll leave it at that.

  14. Kim Petersen said on October 4th, 2007 at 10:36pm #

    No sir; it recorded all over the place, including history books. It is documented history. You asked for verification and I provided it. You and your pathetic lies lose. We’ll leave it at that.

  15. jaime said on October 5th, 2007 at 8:09am #

    Nothing to contradict the fact that when the original Zionist settlers arrived in the Middle east they bought land, rather than conquering it by force of arms.

    Pappe’s book doesn’t even touch upon this time period. 1880’s-1920’s

    ———————————–
    Pappe describes his book:

    http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=11102

    ZNet | Activism

    The ethnic cleansing of Palestine
    by Ilan Pappe; October 03, 2006

    (1) Can you tell ZNet, please, what your new book, “The ethnic cleansing of Palestine” is about? What is it trying to communicate?

    The book tries to show that in 1948, the Zionist movement waged a war against the Palestinain people in order to implement its long term plans of ethnic cleansing …..

  16. jaime said on October 5th, 2007 at 8:29am #

    A Chronology of Early Zionism and Jewish settlement in the Middle east.

    No Vikings. No conquistadors.

    http://www.jewishagency.org/JewishAgency/English/Jewish+Education/Compelling+Content/Eye+on+Israel/120/Chapter+One+The+Heralders+of+Zionism.htm

  17. Gary Corseri said on October 5th, 2007 at 9:07am #

    The argument of Mr. Jaimie that the Zionists “bought the land,” and therefore they now have a legitimate claim on the land reminds one of the rationalization in “The Godfather”: “We’re gonna make him an offer he can’t refuse.” The modus operandi was to offer one’s opponent the choice of a “deal” (money) or one’s brains splattered on the table.

    In modern times, exploiters and oppressors have been prone to cover their tracks with the appearance of legitimacy and and civil behavior. When Americans forced the Cherokee tribe to abandon their ancient, gold-laden land in the Appalachian mountains to re-settle in desolate Oklahoma, land-grabbers moved in to “legally” buy the land for a pittance from certain tribal “leaders” who had been selected by the Americans! We had the paper “deed” to cover our iniquitous deed!

    If I deal with people who have been living with terror and oppression for centuries–under the Ottoman Turks, under the British–and I do not aid them to free themselves from oppression, but I use their weakened position to gain for myself, should I then have the hubris, the cajones, to declare, “I made them a good offer”?

    It is written in the Talmud: “If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself–what am I?” The first part of the question is reasonable enough, and Zionists have stressed it. The second part requires deeper moral probing about all our relationships, our responsibility to do our best to end or ameliorate suffering. How we answer the second part of that question will define our moral character in our crowded and imperiled world, and is likely to determine whether we survive or perish as a species.

  18. jaime said on October 5th, 2007 at 12:17pm #

    Not Exactly, but thanks.

    The 2 situations aren’t really comparable. In any case I was justifying my point that the modern state of Israel was not founded on the dispersion or ethnic cleansing of the local inhabitants when the Zionist movement began in the mid to late 19th Century and into the early 20th century.

    Most of the narratives that get heard on this board are of the “post – Nakba 1948” variety which tends to encourage folks on the far-left to completely dismiss or disregard this era altogether.

    I’ve been called a liar for suggesting that the Jews didn’t do D-Day landings or jump from the sky or march huge armies into the Middle East from Russia, slaughtering Palestinians and drinking their blood.

    Maybe there’s a reason why you’re not “supposed” to know that the early immigration of Jews to the Levant was negotiated, not done by force of arms.

    The violence part came later. Settlements had to organize and defend themselves against attacks by marauding Arab Tribesman. Anti-Semitic riots wipes out a peaceful Hebron religious colony of Jews in the 1920’s.

    With the rise of Arab nationalism, and fundamentalist Islam, partially as a result of Western powers carving up the Middle East and jockeying for oil concessions plus the Jews turning swamps and deserts into successful enterprises.. there were efforts to “take back” the land (long after it had been sold) by force and annihilate the Jews.

    The annihilators lost.
    So did Palestinian Arabs who became refugees and kept in squalor BY THEIR OWN PEOPLE as a festering cudgel against the Jewish state.

    Don’t misunderstand me. I sympathize with the Palestinians. I want to see them well- set up in their own country. Side by side with Israel.

    Not INSTEAD of Israel.

  19. hp said on October 5th, 2007 at 2:29pm #

    Jaime, hows about the David Ben Gurion’s (aka David Gruen, aka David Green) own words? Do they count?

  20. jaime said on October 5th, 2007 at 2:39pm #

    Anyone can be quoted out of context to make them look stupid or whatever.

    Instead of looking for ways to beat up on Jews and Israel, how about looking for ways to help the Palestinians?

    Or better yet, do something for those poor folks in Myanmar/Burma right now. They’re in a peck of trouble.

  21. hp said on October 5th, 2007 at 7:37pm #

    Gosh, I wonder who sold the Myanmar police all those guns?

  22. DEB-Z said on October 5th, 2007 at 7:42pm #

    I see “Jaime” is still here…Following all the severe attacks lodged against Dr. Finkelstein when he was being removed by DePaul University for his speaking out against the treatment of the Palestinians; you are still up to the same propaganda for Israel…
    At least Jaime is doing better by asking for ways to “help the Palestinians”….Must make Dershowitz’s hair curl…after all he is an
    Orthodox Extremist!!!
    In a land like the USA where you can be any race, religion, or ethnic group and own property, vote, run for elected office, etc…Is Israel a liberal and free country like this Jamie? And please spare me the cookie recipe that you felt I needed during the DePaul matter…
    Tossing the ball into the other direction, as with the Burma matter above is something you are a master in…
    No, Israel is responsible for the treatment of the Palestine people…
    Mostly privledged Jewish people are occupying their ancestrial land and forcing them off (more and more every day) with England and the good old USA supporting and participating in this.
    The USA contributes 3 Billion per year donation when we can’t even afford health care for children here. What other country is this stupid?!!!
    Many of those in the USA are sick and tired of sending monies to a financially secure country that whines about the Palestinians and the terror they bring to Israel! It is Israel with the fighter jets, bombs, and
    land mines…
    Poor people in the world only can use what they have against the privledged…stones, homemade bombs, fire, and their hands….this will not get them far…but they have to try to protect themselves and their families.
    Radical Jews are no different than Radical Moslems or Radical Christians…all think of themselves and their extreme ways as being superior!!!
    No peace will be secured by either side unless people are all treated as humans and not like inferior animals! To threaten with “shut off” of the already inferior water system, electricity, and build walls around them with pass gates; we do not even treat our dogs this bad in the USA…Do not compare USA and Israel…they have no freedom of rights there unless you are of the SUPERIOR RACE!!!
    Do not forget to attend the conference;
    IN DEFENSE OF ACADEMIC FREEDOM
    12 October 2007 , 2-7PM
    Rockefeller Chapel, University of Chicago
    your friend Professor Finkelstein will be a guest speaker!

  23. jaime said on October 5th, 2007 at 10:50pm #

    Hi Deb!

    Yep, still here among the “we are all Hezbollah” peace crowd. Just working on my Christmas card list. Could you do me a small kindness? If you bump into hp in your travels, please forward him the news that Israel isn’t generally known to be a usual arms supplier to the Burmese Junta.

    It’s China.

  24. Kim Petersen said on October 6th, 2007 at 7:56am #

    Jane’s Intelligence Review
    March 1, 2000

    Myanmar and Israel develop military pact
    By William Ashton

    HIGHLIGHT
    Although allegations of a secret military partnership between Myanmar and Israel continue to be denied by both sides, reports suggest that Israel is aiding Myanmar’s military modernisation.

  25. jaime said on October 6th, 2007 at 8:14am #

    Thanks Kim. You’re so predictable.

    Every far-leftist Jew hating blog on the internet’s pushing the same piece.

    Jane’s Intelligence Review
    March 1, 2000

    So almost 8 years ago Myanmar apparently did a weapons deal with Israel. 8 years ago. But they’ve also bought weapons all over the world.

    However India and more notably China have been their largest suppliers in recent years. And China is apparently their largest trading partner. This is also complicating things at the UN level because China is exercising its veto power against sanctioning Myanmar’s Junta for the rampant murder of their own people.

  26. sk said on October 6th, 2007 at 10:15am #

    Israel has been a long time supplier of weapons to the most Death Squad friendly governments of Latin America. In fact, the scale of shipments skyrocketed in periods of greatest repression and displacement of indigenous peoples.

  27. Joseph Anderson said on October 6th, 2007 at 1:39pm #

    ——————— THAT STICK DON’T HURT ME ———————-

    I feel lucky to get to get to say this right below arch-Zionist jaime’s comment post.

    There is one great response to the Zionist’s calculatedly phony charges of “anti-Semitism” or “self-hating Jew”:

    DON’T CARE.

    I don’t and I never have.

    And because of that, I’ve actually *extremely* rarely ever been called the former even by the most racist rabid triple-arch-Zionists — even in my most intellectually/morally blistering bantering and biting, incisive sarcasm against their insipid ideologically racist arguments — because they *KNOW* I don’t care.

    (My personal favorite sarcasm is, “Imagine *that*…!: A *Zionist* accusing someone *else* of [anti-Jewish] racism…! It is to *LAUGH*…!” Sometimes I might add, “It’s like the *KKK* accusing the African American Civil Rights Movement of anti-white racism!” Social/Global justice people have to continually POINT OUT THAT IRONY. Like, “WAIT A MINUTE!…: YOU’RE A *ZIONIST*!!” And then tell people who don’t know what that ideologically and religio-racistly *means*!)

    If the racists of the world know that calculatedly phony “anti-Semitism/self-hating Jew” stick will hurt you, they’ll keep using it.

    At the least, I jes’ laugh…

    [Now we can all practice our ‘Hillary cackle’!]

    Look back through all my previous posts at DissidentVoice: you never saw jaime accusing *me* of being “anti-Semitic”. In fact, I’ve said a LOT and I don’t think that jaime has even tried to intellectually/morally take me on AT ALL — even when I’ve taken his Zionist ilk on before. Now, surely, I should have been a prime target of someone like jaime.

    ________________________________________________________

    Actually, one AMAZING time, a prominent guest on PBS’s The Charlie Rose Show STOOD UP TO Israel lobby official, fmr U.S. ambassador to Israel, and arch-Zionist Jew, Martin Indyk, when Indyk tried to blatantly insinuate that the other guest was “anti-Semitic” because the other guest said that the U.S. government can’t accede to everything Israel does. The other guest just CHUCKLED and then, suddenly, VERY POINTEDLY CHALENGED Indyk: “Are you calling me *anti-Semitic*?…” –and stared Indyk down. To which Indyk — realizing how underhanded & slimey he’d look taking such an obviously cheap raw gutter shot (the Indyk’s/Foxman’s are used to it being unchallendged and others being cowed) on national TV — _BACKED RIGHT DOWN_ like a growling dog, who got suddenly, unexpectedly, sharply *SMACKED* right on the nose with a tightly rolled up paper and pointedly stared down, whimpering off with his tail between his legs.

    IT WAS A *GLORIOUS* MOMENT IN *ALL* OF TELEVISION HISTORY.

    That’s how you handle those slimey Zionist would-be bullies.

  28. Davie Cohen said on October 6th, 2007 at 2:58pm #

    The methods used by some Jews and Jewish organizations to suppress the voices of other Jews with differing opinions is frightening, methodical, brutal. It’s a crass attempt to force unilateral thought and behavior, primarily for the image presented to the general public.

    One method is the threat of withholding funds, as was the case of AIPAC’S threat of cancelling the Jewish Youth Program’s funding if it allowed Ms Surasky’s appearance. This is the power of money, the power of the wealthy over those who are not. Behave as we want you to, or be punished.

    The other method which is attempted – and often succeeds – with great regularity is emotional blackmail. “How can you wash “our” dirty linen in public, after all, we are all Jews”. I read an article by Milton Viorst yesterday, in which he wrote that 30 years ago Abe Foxman of the ADL
    “admonishing him as a Jew not to wash our people’s dirty linen in public”. They are “our people” as long as we think the way they do. Every time a Jew wants to express an opinion which is not that of the major Jewish organizations – which all seem to have only one opinion – whether it be in print, film, or as recently happened in a Congressional hearing involving Holocaust survivors, he is approached with this same old line. But there is not alternative given to “washing the dirty linen in public”, it is not a matter washing it in private. It is a matter of shutting up and letting those in power to think for us all.

    Young or old, we are not going to be muzzled.

  29. David Gaines said on October 6th, 2007 at 5:48pm #

    Short and to the point: I am as Jewish as one can be, I support Cecilie Suransky and Jewish Voice For Peace 100%, and find the idea of me hating myself rather peculiar.

    I’m very happy to be Jewish. I’m not very happy that my Jewish upbringing taught me nothing about Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular except to hate them. I do not support every position JVP (or Dissident Voice, for that matter) takes on this issue. I absolutely do support the novel concept of people acting like grown-ups and not having what people used to refer to as “a conipition fit” whenever a perfectly reasonable, rational person publically criticizes the Israeli government.

    It is embarrassing and shameful that all sides of this issue are heard at great volume in the Israeli media, but we “self-hating Jews” and our brother and sister “anti-Semites” among the gentiles are told to sit down, shut up, and get in line. I would defend, without even having to be asked, Abraham Foxman’s right to be heard at any forum, at any time. How shameful that he will not extend to his intellectual equals on the other side of this issue the same courtesy, a courtesy which should be extended to all Americans at all times.

    And people wonder why I told the spineless Democratic Party what it could do with itself a long time ago.

    DG

  30. jaime said on October 6th, 2007 at 5:54pm #

    Dear Joseph,

    I think you make some very good points. If you’re free on Thursday and in or around Newark New Jersey I hope you can attend our party this week. We’ll all be very interested in hearing what you have to say!

    Celebrate With Us! Everyone Welcome!

    US Iran Friendship Day Celebrating Iran’s Nuclear Technology
    Thursday Oct. 11th 9:00 Pm
    Hope Steam Baths
    163 Hope Ave., Passaic, NJ.

    No Drugs – No Weapons – No Women – No Jews

    Contact:

    Jaime Antecol
    Queers for Ahmadinejad
    P.O. Box 420
    Somerville, NJ 08876
    ph: 973-792-3000
    moc.oohaynull@locetnaj

  31. iyamwutiam said on October 6th, 2007 at 10:29pm #

    I am sure many of us would like to attend your ‘party’. Its a shame – but I think we would have to ‘donate’ to get in – or perhaps even pick up the tab!!
    Anyway – I am sure Thrusday will be a full house – I am sure you will be there – since even if your not for Ahmadniejad – the first part of your address (after your name) is probably wha your after.
    Did you ever think of moving to San Francisco or maybe Portland?

  32. jaime said on October 7th, 2007 at 6:14am #

    Not enough Queers in Portland.

  33. sk said on October 7th, 2007 at 6:32am #

    FYI, interesting essay and audio interview on how purportedly liberal values can be used as PR bludgeons to dehumanize the “Other” whose land/resources are coveted.

  34. Joseph Anderson said on October 7th, 2007 at 9:34am #

    Dear jaime,

    [yawwwwnnnn…. ]

  35. AEAZ said on January 13th, 2009 at 7:20am #

    Dear Brothers and Sisters,

    We are allowing an insidious personality to engage in wasting our time talking about irelevant conjecture when so far 300 children have died from bullets or phosphorus.

    Rather than discussing the pointless blame game he intends, lets use this site for true dissidence. Throughout the ages the ‘jaimes’ (incidentally its french for ‘I AM’ – I am what mate, a zionist batty boy perchance) of this world have successfully introduced division to all peoples, working one against another.

    Speak up and tell the world – Chatan is in your midst in your media and in your minds – let your eyes see the truth. They are so bold, a BBC news clip shows a couple of zionists dancing on the border of gaza as they witness the bombs raining down. What would this tell your heart jaime you piece of stool that thinks itself G-d?

    If we ban him he will only return in another name – thankfully he is so stupid as to be completely transparent and any future attempts to spread filth will be noticed resulting in making himself look even more stupid.

    anti-extemis/anti-zionis