Tom Delay: Another
Pro-Israel Fascist in Congress
Dissident Voice News Service
June 24, 2002
Transcript
of Conversation with House Majority Whip Tom Delay (R-Tx) on CNBC’s Hardball
with Chris Matthews, June 18, 2002
HEADLINE:
Congressman Tom DeLay's reaction to Ted Turner's statements about Israelis
being terrorists
CHRIS
MATTHEWS, host:
Today's
suicide attack comes the morning after Ted Turner made some controversial
remarks about the Middle East to the London Guardian. Turner said, quote,
"The Palestinians are fighting with human suicide bombers. That's all they
have. The Israelis, they've got one of the most powerful military machines in
the world. The Palestinians have nothing. So who are the terrorists? I would
make a case that both sides are involved in terrorism." That's Ted Turner
speaking. Congressman Tom DeLay is a Texas Republican. He's House majority
whip. He joins us now.
Mr--Mr.
Leader, what do you make of the comments by Ted Turner?
Representative
TOM DeLAY (Republican, Majority Whip): Well, I think they're pretty outrageous.
It's--it's pretty sad. Ted Turner's been wrong on a lot of things, I've got to
tell you. And to--to equate Palestinian terrorism with Israel's attempt to
defend itself is a new low. Ted Turner's rantings show that he has a defect in
his moral compass. There--there is no moral equivalency between terrorism
and--and a country trying to defend itself.
MATTHEWS: What
do you think the Palestinians should do in this situation?
Rep. DeLAY:
The Palestinians should do in this situation?
MATTHEWS:
Yeah, what should they do as a people?
Rep. DeLAY:
They should--they--they should work with the Israeli government to--to stop the
violence, number one.
MATTHEWS:
Right.
Rep. DeLAY :
And secondly, help them find the terrorist networks and help them root out the
terrorist networks and should make sure that those moderate Palestinians can be
safe from Arafat. Tho--those po--moderate Palestinians should rise in
leadership so that we will have somebody to negotiate with. Right now, you
cannot negotiate with a terrorist.
MATTHEWS: What
would be the point of them negotiating? What would be the point of them laying
down their arms and opposing terrorism? Why would the Palestinians do that?
What would be in it for them?
Rep. DeLAY:
Well, it'd be--for them, it would be a--a--a prosperous life in Israel. Right
now...
MATTHEWS: In
Israel. You mean, they would all be condemned to living as part of the Israeli
government? They would be under the Israeli government forever. That would be
the goal.
Rep. DeLAY: I
think it's pretty--pretty awesome that you think that they would be condemned
to live in the most pos--prosperous nation in the--in the are a. I mean,
you--you look at Israel, a democracy. And it's--the--the prosperity that is
generated for their citizens because of freedom to associate freedom to--to
start your own businesses...
MATTHEWS:
Right. Would they be able...
Rep. DeLAY:
..freedom--freedom to go to...
MATTHEWS:
Would they be citizens of Israel? All the Arabs in the West Bank and in Gaza
now, would they be citizens of Israel under your--your view?
Rep. DeLAY:
I--there are citizens of Israel that are Palestinian.
MATTHEWS: No.
No. I mean, the people living on the West Bank now, in the--the disputed
territories, they're called. Should they become part of Israel?
Rep. DeLAY:
Certainly, they should become part of Israel?
MATTHEWS:
Should they become citizens?
Rep. DeLAY:
Cert--certainly, they should become citizens. And--and they should--they--they
should start schools. We should help them with hospitals. We should more or
less impo--impose a--or bring a Marshall Plan to--to these areas so that they
can have the prosperity and hope that obviously Arafat and the Palestinian
Authority is not giving them.
MATTHEWS:
Well, the Israelis want a homeland, and they have one, the State of Israel
since 1948, and that's a matter of dispute with some of the Arab extremists. Do
you think the Palestinians should have a state?
Rep. DeLAY: I
don't think we should be talking about a Palestinian state right now.
MATTHEWS: But
right now, you've just...
Rep. DeLAY:
...while violence is going on.
MATTHEWS:
You've just said that there shouldn't be any Palestinian state because you said
Israel should continue to rule the entire West Bank and Gaza, and the Arabs
should become part of Israel and be citizens of Israel. So what's the dispute?
What's to negotiate?
Rep. DeLAY:
There--there is no negotiation right now. We shouldn't be negotiating with
terrorists at all.
MATTHEWS: No,
it's not on question of terr--terrorists. Should there be a Palestinian
homeland where the Palestinians rule themselves ever? Ever?
Rep. DeLAY:
I--that--that's not what we're talking about here. We're talk...
MATTHEWS:
Well, that's what I think is the question.
Rep. DeLAY:
No, it is not.
MATTHEWS:
There's a dispute in the Middle East between the Palestinians and the Israelis.
The Palestinians are resorting to terrorism. But the question is: What is the
alternative that you're offering them to this terrorist regime they're under
now? What is the promise you can offer them...
Rep. DeLAY:
You--you're...
MATTHEWS:
...as an American?
Rep. DeLAY:
Well, hold on just a minute. Your premise is all wrong. The pre--what you have
right now is a Palestinian Authority and--and Yasser Arafat that wants to
destroy Israel. It has nothing to do with creating...
MATTHEWS:
Right. Well, do you want to destroy the Palestinian hopes...
Rep. DeLAY:
May I finish?
MATTHEWS:
...of having a homeland?
Rep. DeLAY:
May I finish? May I finish what I'm saying? You have a si--that isn't the
situation at all. The situation is you have a--a free democracy called Israel.
MATTHEWS:
Right.
Rep. DeLAY:
And you have Palestinians and the Palestinian Authority trying to destroy
Israel. They don't want to talk about a Palestinian state. They want to destroy
Israel. That is the issue today. It has nothing to do with giving--creating a
new state or--or creating...
MATTHEWS: But
how.....
Rep. DeLAY:
...new borders or anything like that. What is important right now...
MATTHEWS: How
can there ever be a Palestinian homeland...
Rep. DeLAY:
What is important right now is to stop the violence and stop the killing of
innocent citizens in Israel. When you stop the violence and we can go in and
get the terrorist networks and we can root these terrorists out of there, then
you can sit down with people of reason, Palestinians that wa--that believe that
Israel ought to exist and you can negotiate. No one should be negotiating right
now...
MATTHEWS:
But...
Rep. DeLAY:
...with terrorists.
MATTHEWS: But
how--do you believe a Palestinian state ought to exist somewhere down the road?
Rep. DeLAY:
I--I'm not going to talk about that until the violence stops. You--because what
you're doing...
MATTHEWS: Do
you believe that Israel has a right to...
Rep. DeLAY:
What you're doing...
MATTHEWS:
You--you gave a speech recently where you said to APAC, the Israeli lobby
that--that when you fly over Jenin and Samaria which is the Likud line from the
West Bank, that that's all Israeli territory. If that's the case, then why
should we even ask the Palestinians to play ball with us or to be peaceful and
negotiate with us, if you've decided that there's nothing for them to
negotiate, they can't have a homeland. You've said that.
Rep. DeLAY:
No, you're...
MATTHEWS: So
how does that appeal to moderation?
Rep. DeLAY: Ch
ris, no one is asking the Palestinians to sit down with us. I'm not asking them
to sit down with us. I'm asking them to stop the violence. I'm--I'm as--I am
asking the United States to stand with Israel to go after terrorist networks.
Once you...
MATTHEWS:
Would you accept it...
Rep. DeLAY:
Once you stop...
MATTHEWS: If
you were a Palestinian, Congressman...
Rep. DeLAY:
Once you stop the violence...
MATTHEWS: If
you were a Pa...
Rep. DeLAY:
Once you...
MATTHEWS: If
you were a Palestinian, Congressman, would you accept virtual captivity by
another country? Would you live in somebody else's country and let them rule
you?
Rep. DeLAY: If
I...
MATTHEWS: Or
would you fight?
Rep. DeLAY: If
I was a Palestinian, I would not kill innocent citizens...
MATTHEWS:
Would you fight?
Rep. DeLAY:
...by driving up next to a bu--a bus like what was done today...
MATTHEWS:
Would you fight the Israeli occupation?
Rep. DeLAY :
...and kill children going to school.
MATTHEWS:
Would you fight the Israeli occupation?
Rep. DeLAY:
I--I would not--I would not kill innocent children.
MATTHEWS: But
would you fight the Israeli occupation?
Rep. DeLAY: I
wou--again, I'll answer you again. I will not kill innocent civilians. And I
will not support terrorist networks.
MATTHEWS:
Right. OK. Well, thank you very much for joining us. Congressman Tom DeLay, the
House majority whip, the congressman from Texas.
© Copyright
2002 CNBC, Inc.
In case you'd
like clarification, and/or would like to send a message to Mr. Delay:
Rep. Tom DeLay
2370 Rayburn
House Office Building
Washington, DC
20515
Phone: (202)
225-5951
FAX: (202)
225-5241
Website: http://tomdelay.house.gov/
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