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	<title>Comments on: Technological Fundamentalism</title>
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	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: mary</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/technological-fundamentalism/#comment-80535</link>
		<dc:creator>mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jan 2011 13:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=28674#comment-80535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Survival International have written on this site  before on the extraction of bauxite at Orissa by Vedanta and the consequent destruction of the land and the disruption to the lives of the indigenous people.  That scheme was turned down but now a South Korean company has been given permission to build a massive steel plant there.

{http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12322280}

The previous article {http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/12/mining-company%E2%80%99s-scare-tactics-against-human-rights-ngo/}]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Survival International have written on this site  before on the extraction of bauxite at Orissa by Vedanta and the consequent destruction of the land and the disruption to the lives of the indigenous people.  That scheme was turned down but now a South Korean company has been given permission to build a massive steel plant there.</p>
<p>{http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12322280}</p>
<p>The previous article {http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/12/mining-company%E2%80%99s-scare-tactics-against-human-rights-ngo/}</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/technological-fundamentalism/#comment-80472</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Jan 2011 01:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=28674#comment-80472</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[bozh writes ...

&lt;i&gt;take obama, eg. he’s ignorant of his ignorance; it is knowledge-justice-fairness for him to wage wars and kill innocent people when it is done in name a holy of holies, such as the right of u.s. to defend its interests with all means necessary. in truman’s case, even use of wmd had been necessary-just-fair.&lt;/i&gt;

The problem bozh is the system.  Obama and Truman are what the system coughs up.  The game on the &quot;Left&quot; is to blame Obama, Truman, and whatever to constantly divert from examining the forces that maintains and keeps us trapped in this hierarchy such as money and debt.  

The Obamas and the Trumans will NEVER become our allies.  As previously stated we need to understand WHO our allies are.   The game the &quot;Left&quot; plays is to pretend to be our allies when in fact its goal is to subvert solidarity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bozh writes &#8230;</p>
<p><i>take obama, eg. he’s ignorant of his ignorance; it is knowledge-justice-fairness for him to wage wars and kill innocent people when it is done in name a holy of holies, such as the right of u.s. to defend its interests with all means necessary. in truman’s case, even use of wmd had been necessary-just-fair.</i></p>
<p>The problem bozh is the system.  Obama and Truman are what the system coughs up.  The game on the &#8220;Left&#8221; is to blame Obama, Truman, and whatever to constantly divert from examining the forces that maintains and keeps us trapped in this hierarchy such as money and debt.  </p>
<p>The Obamas and the Trumans will NEVER become our allies.  As previously stated we need to understand WHO our allies are.   The game the &#8220;Left&#8221; plays is to pretend to be our allies when in fact its goal is to subvert solidarity.</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/technological-fundamentalism/#comment-80466</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 22:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=28674#comment-80466</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;no tool can even pinch let alone, hurt, kill anyone; drive one outta hisher home, indebt anyone; or fire a shot, drive a tank; belittle-deceive-lead to war or force a person to drink water, etcetc.
and knowledge cannot do any of it, either.
it is people who do that. all we need to know is which people do that and why!&quot;

this quote differ significantly from my partial quote that DB posited. why does he do that? turning a clear utterance into a muddy one? ok, he does like to argue a lot; call people names; fails to acknowledge a response to his personal attacks or twisting of meanings. well, i can&#039;t fix his thinking. i am only replying to his attacks in order to clarify things to other readers. tnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;no tool can even pinch let alone, hurt, kill anyone; drive one outta hisher home, indebt anyone; or fire a shot, drive a tank; belittle-deceive-lead to war or force a person to drink water, etcetc.<br />
and knowledge cannot do any of it, either.<br />
it is people who do that. all we need to know is which people do that and why!&#8221;</p>
<p>this quote differ significantly from my partial quote that DB posited. why does he do that? turning a clear utterance into a muddy one? ok, he does like to argue a lot; call people names; fails to acknowledge a response to his personal attacks or twisting of meanings. well, i can&#8217;t fix his thinking. i am only replying to his attacks in order to clarify things to other readers. tnx</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/technological-fundamentalism/#comment-80465</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 22:47:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=28674#comment-80465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[DB,
if one wld put my post-- which u object to-- in the context all i have written thus far about structure of society and governance, one wld know who are the people who do most or even all evil.

u and readers who read my posts shld remember or shld have noted by now that i leave most important words undefined because, they are undefinable.
such a word is knowledge.
knowledge does not do harm-- it is an entirely different issue that knowledge is withheld from us pedestrians or we are given false knowledge and many evaluating it as knowledge.
here, it seems, i must after all define knowledge; it is not false knowledge or lies.

to say it another way, ignorance [i hate that word] of ignorance is the greatest tool for people who r also ignorant of their ignorance.

take obama, eg. he&#039;s ignorant of his ignorance; it is knowledge-justice-fairness for him to wage wars and kill innocent people when it is done in name a holy of holies, such as the right of u.s. to defend its interests with all means necessary.
in truman&#039;s case, even use of wmd had been necessary-just-fair.

btw, ignorance of ignorance also defies any explaining. it means whatever it means to each individual; let&#039;s just hope the meanings derived from that word are sufficiently similar or exact. tnx

this knowledge is  stored in every cell of  truman&#039;s, clinton&#039;s, obama&#039;s body. short of killing them or decondition them of such &#039;knowledge&#039;, they wld never ever change.
i amy have strayed here a bit, but i hope i explained the situation! sometimes no words seem to elucidate what really is going on! tnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DB,<br />
if one wld put my post&#8211; which u object to&#8211; in the context all i have written thus far about structure of society and governance, one wld know who are the people who do most or even all evil.</p>
<p>u and readers who read my posts shld remember or shld have noted by now that i leave most important words undefined because, they are undefinable.<br />
such a word is knowledge.<br />
knowledge does not do harm&#8211; it is an entirely different issue that knowledge is withheld from us pedestrians or we are given false knowledge and many evaluating it as knowledge.<br />
here, it seems, i must after all define knowledge; it is not false knowledge or lies.</p>
<p>to say it another way, ignorance [i hate that word] of ignorance is the greatest tool for people who r also ignorant of their ignorance.</p>
<p>take obama, eg. he&#8217;s ignorant of his ignorance; it is knowledge-justice-fairness for him to wage wars and kill innocent people when it is done in name a holy of holies, such as the right of u.s. to defend its interests with all means necessary.<br />
in truman&#8217;s case, even use of wmd had been necessary-just-fair.</p>
<p>btw, ignorance of ignorance also defies any explaining. it means whatever it means to each individual; let&#8217;s just hope the meanings derived from that word are sufficiently similar or exact. tnx</p>
<p>this knowledge is  stored in every cell of  truman&#8217;s, clinton&#8217;s, obama&#8217;s body. short of killing them or decondition them of such &#8216;knowledge&#8217;, they wld never ever change.<br />
i amy have strayed here a bit, but i hope i explained the situation! sometimes no words seem to elucidate what really is going on! tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/technological-fundamentalism/#comment-80459</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 21:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=28674#comment-80459</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[bozh writes (yet another contradiction)

&lt;i&gt;and knowledge cannot do any of it, either.
it is people who do that. all we need to know is which people do that and why!&lt;/i&gt;

This is misanthropic because it lets the system off the hook and fails to examine the hierarchical nature of the Capitalism system.  Meaning it fails to examine the hierarchy of POWER. It engages in victim blaming rather than analysis.  

This is the problem of Jensen&#039;s rhetoric.  I don&#039;t know why submitters like to take this tact of blaming everybody.  A tact that I see used  especially by &quot;environmentalists&quot; like Jensen.  You&#039;d think taking a look at the human &quot;environment&quot; (i.e. social forces) would be the first area of examination.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bozh writes (yet another contradiction)</p>
<p><i>and knowledge cannot do any of it, either.<br />
it is people who do that. all we need to know is which people do that and why!</i></p>
<p>This is misanthropic because it lets the system off the hook and fails to examine the hierarchical nature of the Capitalism system.  Meaning it fails to examine the hierarchy of POWER. It engages in victim blaming rather than analysis.  </p>
<p>This is the problem of Jensen&#8217;s rhetoric.  I don&#8217;t know why submitters like to take this tact of blaming everybody.  A tact that I see used  especially by &#8220;environmentalists&#8221; like Jensen.  You&#8217;d think taking a look at the human &#8220;environment&#8221; (i.e. social forces) would be the first area of examination.</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/technological-fundamentalism/#comment-80457</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 20:46:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=28674#comment-80457</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[no tool can even pinch let alone, hurt, kill anyone; drive one outta hisher home, indebt anyone; or fire a shot, drive a tank;  belittle-deceive-lead to war or force a  person to drink water, etcetc. 

and knowledge cannot do any of it, either.
it is people who do that. all we need to know is which people do that and why!

we know that obama, and all u.s. prezs are those people who do all that and much more.
unfortunately, there r in the region at least another 20mn just like obama; many of which may be calling for even more violence, oppression, lying, etc.,  than by obama.
they also own-operate warships, wmd, banks, wmd, cia-fbi-police, judges, media, jobs, etcetc.

aaand nothing changes except for worse! judging by what most people think or say!
aaand even if israel disappears tomorrow, nothing get&#039;s better- only worse-- till the end of history!  and even if all u.s. &#039;jews&#039; get exported to gaza!
did suleiman, alexander, peter, otto, darius the greats need jews [real and pretenders]?
how about huns, napoleon, genghis khan, senacherib, pharoah, hitler, mussolini, pilgrims to u.s., papa doc duvallier, henry the 8th, mubarak? tnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>no tool can even pinch let alone, hurt, kill anyone; drive one outta hisher home, indebt anyone; or fire a shot, drive a tank;  belittle-deceive-lead to war or force a  person to drink water, etcetc. </p>
<p>and knowledge cannot do any of it, either.<br />
it is people who do that. all we need to know is which people do that and why!</p>
<p>we know that obama, and all u.s. prezs are those people who do all that and much more.<br />
unfortunately, there r in the region at least another 20mn just like obama; many of which may be calling for even more violence, oppression, lying, etc.,  than by obama.<br />
they also own-operate warships, wmd, banks, wmd, cia-fbi-police, judges, media, jobs, etcetc.</p>
<p>aaand nothing changes except for worse! judging by what most people think or say!<br />
aaand even if israel disappears tomorrow, nothing get&#8217;s better- only worse&#8211; till the end of history!  and even if all u.s. &#8216;jews&#8217; get exported to gaza!<br />
did suleiman, alexander, peter, otto, darius the greats need jews [real and pretenders]?<br />
how about huns, napoleon, genghis khan, senacherib, pharoah, hitler, mussolini, pilgrims to u.s., papa doc duvallier, henry the 8th, mubarak? tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/technological-fundamentalism/#comment-80453</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 19:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=28674#comment-80453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jensen is obviously on a &quot;fundamentalist&quot; crusade of his own targeting &quot;technology&quot; while deploying reverse psychology to immunize himself from criticism.  He says the labeling of &quot;anti-technology&quot; is a meaningless insult while at the same time he indicts everyone for the current state of the system.  It appears to me that Jensen&#039;s views are more insulting for his failure to indict capitalist production and the oppression that workers face under this system.

Technology is not at fault.  Capitalist ownership of and development of technology under the Capitalist system are at fault.  It&#039;s all about profits and the use of technology to derive greater profits.

Jensen&#039;s only mention of Capitalism in his article is about neoliberal&#039;s &quot;dream&quot; of unrestrained capitalism but there is no criticism offered by Jensen of the Keynesian&#039;s fantasy of  regulated Welfare State Capitalism that keeps the Capitalist class in power.  Capitalism cannot be regulated or managed thus Capitalism itself is the source of the problem and how POWER is arranged and maintain under this system.

Why Jensen is diverting our attention by making &quot;technology&quot; the boogieman falls right into the same old pseudo-Left canard of axioms, bromides and cliches to &quot;pollute&quot; our minds with rather than confront Capitalism and Zionism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jensen is obviously on a &#8220;fundamentalist&#8221; crusade of his own targeting &#8220;technology&#8221; while deploying reverse psychology to immunize himself from criticism.  He says the labeling of &#8220;anti-technology&#8221; is a meaningless insult while at the same time he indicts everyone for the current state of the system.  It appears to me that Jensen&#8217;s views are more insulting for his failure to indict capitalist production and the oppression that workers face under this system.</p>
<p>Technology is not at fault.  Capitalist ownership of and development of technology under the Capitalist system are at fault.  It&#8217;s all about profits and the use of technology to derive greater profits.</p>
<p>Jensen&#8217;s only mention of Capitalism in his article is about neoliberal&#8217;s &#8220;dream&#8221; of unrestrained capitalism but there is no criticism offered by Jensen of the Keynesian&#8217;s fantasy of  regulated Welfare State Capitalism that keeps the Capitalist class in power.  Capitalism cannot be regulated or managed thus Capitalism itself is the source of the problem and how POWER is arranged and maintain under this system.</p>
<p>Why Jensen is diverting our attention by making &#8220;technology&#8221; the boogieman falls right into the same old pseudo-Left canard of axioms, bromides and cliches to &#8220;pollute&#8221; our minds with rather than confront Capitalism and Zionism.</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/technological-fundamentalism/#comment-80440</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 17:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=28674#comment-80440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jensen:
&quot;Human beings and the natural world are on a collision course. Human activities inflict harsh and often irreversible damage on the environment and on critical resources.&quot;

the statement appears erroneus: by implication, it blames a job &#039;giver&#039; [read, please, work robber], banksters, politician, tiller, fisher equally.

it blames a general commanding an army and demanding more and better weapons and a ditch digger. the statement does not acknowledge the power of deceiving, lying by those who lead us from crisis to crisis; from war to war; from lack of healthcare to lack of heatlh care.

and above else, that we have been robbed of our humaness long time ago! tnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jensen:<br />
&#8220;Human beings and the natural world are on a collision course. Human activities inflict harsh and often irreversible damage on the environment and on critical resources.&#8221;</p>
<p>the statement appears erroneus: by implication, it blames a job &#8216;giver&#8217; [read, please, work robber], banksters, politician, tiller, fisher equally.</p>
<p>it blames a general commanding an army and demanding more and better weapons and a ditch digger. the statement does not acknowledge the power of deceiving, lying by those who lead us from crisis to crisis; from war to war; from lack of healthcare to lack of heatlh care.</p>
<p>and above else, that we have been robbed of our humaness long time ago! tnx</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/technological-fundamentalism/#comment-80439</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 17:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=28674#comment-80439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jensen:
&quot;Religious fundamentalism is the most contested of the four, and hence is the one most often critiqued.&quot;

replace the label [recall, please most labels confuse or even deceive] &quot;religious fundamentalism&quot; [an extreme obnubilation] with the label &quot;religious science&quot; and, presto, only priests get mad and the rest of us exult in knowledge.

in short, all science comes out our brain structure; alas, by now most of these brains overloaded with scientific knowledge which arose, say, 10 k yrs ago.

compare our sciences with that of hopis, haydas, crees and we discover what? well, they had none of that and thus no priestly class to poison verybody&#039;s  minds! tnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jensen:<br />
&#8220;Religious fundamentalism is the most contested of the four, and hence is the one most often critiqued.&#8221;</p>
<p>replace the label [recall, please most labels confuse or even deceive] &#8220;religious fundamentalism&#8221; [an extreme obnubilation] with the label &#8220;religious science&#8221; and, presto, only priests get mad and the rest of us exult in knowledge.</p>
<p>in short, all science comes out our brain structure; alas, by now most of these brains overloaded with scientific knowledge which arose, say, 10 k yrs ago.</p>
<p>compare our sciences with that of hopis, haydas, crees and we discover what? well, they had none of that and thus no priestly class to poison verybody&#8217;s  minds! tnx</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/technological-fundamentalism/#comment-80438</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:48:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=28674#comment-80438</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;We aren’t, and we can’t, which is why we should always remember that we are far more ignorant than we are knowledgeable&quot;.

to me this utterance make no sense. now if one wld say that priests know more than me and people like me what makes themc tick, what they r concerned about, what makes them peaceful-happy, such verbal construct is easy to understand.
but why i be ignorant because i can&#039;t read priestly or political minds?

i am not ignorant because i do not know all about priests or people who wage wars, ignorance, etc.
 i simply don&#039;t know nor does anyone else why such enorm wickedness? is there really a devil who guides some brains? tnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We aren’t, and we can’t, which is why we should always remember that we are far more ignorant than we are knowledgeable&#8221;.</p>
<p>to me this utterance make no sense. now if one wld say that priests know more than me and people like me what makes themc tick, what they r concerned about, what makes them peaceful-happy, such verbal construct is easy to understand.<br />
but why i be ignorant because i can&#8217;t read priestly or political minds?</p>
<p>i am not ignorant because i do not know all about priests or people who wage wars, ignorance, etc.<br />
 i simply don&#8217;t know nor does anyone else why such enorm wickedness? is there really a devil who guides some brains? tnx</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/01/technological-fundamentalism/#comment-80436</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jan 2011 16:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=28674#comment-80436</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[torah:
&quot;God told them they could eat freely of every tree but the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This need not be understood as a command that people must stay stupid, but only that we resist the temptation to believe that we are godlike and can competently manipulate the complexity of the world.&quot;

the hebrew or a shemite who wrote this, i educe, hated people; especially nonshamanic-nonpriestly ones.

and even jensen runs for cover under the word &quot;complexity&quot; instead for word &quot;simplicity&quot; and remain out in the open.

instead of using the word &quot;complexity&quot;,  self forever reverberating in endless complexities, why not use following  simplicity and crystal clear one at that: we do not know at this time what we&#039;d get to know even tomorrow. 
and we may never  ever need to know everything there is to be known.

the above torahic quote is sufficiently rebutted by another torahic quote: sufficient onto the day is the rigor thereof.
what the fella meant, i conjecture, is that we [provided we are not deceiving or disrespecting people] can only know some much on any day and go on w.o. worrying, arguing about what we don&#039;t know and cannot know! tnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>torah:<br />
&#8220;God told them they could eat freely of every tree but the tree of knowledge of good and evil. This need not be understood as a command that people must stay stupid, but only that we resist the temptation to believe that we are godlike and can competently manipulate the complexity of the world.&#8221;</p>
<p>the hebrew or a shemite who wrote this, i educe, hated people; especially nonshamanic-nonpriestly ones.</p>
<p>and even jensen runs for cover under the word &#8220;complexity&#8221; instead for word &#8220;simplicity&#8221; and remain out in the open.</p>
<p>instead of using the word &#8220;complexity&#8221;,  self forever reverberating in endless complexities, why not use following  simplicity and crystal clear one at that: we do not know at this time what we&#8217;d get to know even tomorrow.<br />
and we may never  ever need to know everything there is to be known.</p>
<p>the above torahic quote is sufficiently rebutted by another torahic quote: sufficient onto the day is the rigor thereof.<br />
what the fella meant, i conjecture, is that we [provided we are not deceiving or disrespecting people] can only know some much on any day and go on w.o. worrying, arguing about what we don&#8217;t know and cannot know! tnx</p>
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