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	<title>Comments on: Wikileaks: Play The Ball Not The Man</title>
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	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: rosemarie jackowski</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78803</link>
		<dc:creator>rosemarie jackowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 18:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78803</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[P.S.  Where is the outrage. Anyone remember  the many other political prisoners such as Lynne Stewart... 
http://lynnestewart.org/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  Where is the outrage. Anyone remember  the many other political prisoners such as Lynne Stewart&#8230;<br />
<a href="http://lynnestewart.org/" rel="nofollow">http://lynnestewart.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: rosemarie jackowski</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78802</link>
		<dc:creator>rosemarie jackowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 18:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78802</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It never fails that someone who accomplishes an admirable goal - gets beaten up by the left/right and middle.  I think about Cindy Sheehan who received criticism from a few on the left.
   
I, for one, don&#039;t care about Assange&#039;s motives. I don&#039;t care about his sex life. I care about the millions of  innocent civilians killed by the US.

From the moment that I saw  &quot;Collateral Murder&quot; I felt a deep sence of gratitude to Assange and Manning (if he helped) and anyone else who exposes war crimes - and a deep sence of shame for the other citizens who trivialize the atrocities.

I don&#039;t understand why there is not a strong, unified effort to free Manning and protect Assange.  What the hell is wrong with some of you out there?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It never fails that someone who accomplishes an admirable goal &#8211; gets beaten up by the left/right and middle.  I think about Cindy Sheehan who received criticism from a few on the left.</p>
<p>I, for one, don&#8217;t care about Assange&#8217;s motives. I don&#8217;t care about his sex life. I care about the millions of  innocent civilians killed by the US.</p>
<p>From the moment that I saw  &#8220;Collateral Murder&#8221; I felt a deep sence of gratitude to Assange and Manning (if he helped) and anyone else who exposes war crimes &#8211; and a deep sence of shame for the other citizens who trivialize the atrocities.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand why there is not a strong, unified effort to free Manning and protect Assange.  What the hell is wrong with some of you out there?</p>
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		<title>By: mary</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78792</link>
		<dc:creator>mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 09:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78792</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Assange has signed two book deals worth £1.1million.
{http://www.thenews.com.pk/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=8038}

This is the link to the Sicko/Cuba cable that Moore said was false.
{http://www.cuba-solidarity.org.uk/news.asp?ItemID=1944}]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assange has signed two book deals worth £1.1million.<br />
{http://www.thenews.com.pk/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=8038}</p>
<p>This is the link to the Sicko/Cuba cable that Moore said was false.<br />
{http://www.cuba-solidarity.org.uk/news.asp?ItemID=1944}</p>
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		<title>By: Mulga Mumblebrain</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78718</link>
		<dc:creator>Mulga Mumblebrain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Dec 2010 11:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Assange was quoted, on ABC News Radio, this week, saying that he was being persecuted &#039;..like Jews in the US in the 1950s&#039;. Jews? Not African-Americans still living under Jim Crow, or Leftists persecuted by the McCarthyites, but Jews? I know that there was still a good deal of prejudice against Jews then, but persecution? I&#039;m beginning to smell a big, fat, Zionist rat. I wondered why no leaks pertaining to the Holy State had emerged, and put it down to the corrupt and unprincipled Western media.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Assange was quoted, on ABC News Radio, this week, saying that he was being persecuted &#8216;..like Jews in the US in the 1950s&#8217;. Jews? Not African-Americans still living under Jim Crow, or Leftists persecuted by the McCarthyites, but Jews? I know that there was still a good deal of prejudice against Jews then, but persecution? I&#8217;m beginning to smell a big, fat, Zionist rat. I wondered why no leaks pertaining to the Holy State had emerged, and put it down to the corrupt and unprincipled Western media.</p>
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		<title>By: beverly</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78651</link>
		<dc:creator>beverly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Dec 2010 03:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78651</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Regardless of Assange&#039;s motives, it is a good thing this info got published.  The mainstream media abdicated it&#039;s job eons ago.  Without Wikileaks and related muckrakers the govt will continue its bamboozlement, exploitation, and pillaging of the people.   Like any info received, one must consider the source, content, etc.  I&#039;m sure Assange&#039;s/Wikileaks&#039; motive or agenda is no more suspect than our or any other govt&#039;s.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regardless of Assange&#8217;s motives, it is a good thing this info got published.  The mainstream media abdicated it&#8217;s job eons ago.  Without Wikileaks and related muckrakers the govt will continue its bamboozlement, exploitation, and pillaging of the people.   Like any info received, one must consider the source, content, etc.  I&#8217;m sure Assange&#8217;s/Wikileaks&#8217; motive or agenda is no more suspect than our or any other govt&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: corneilius</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78642</link>
		<dc:creator>corneilius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 20:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78642</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;In releasing the information to these ‘architects of media disinformation’ as Chossudovsky describes them, Assange is implicitly saying that we, the public, are too stupid, moronic, or ignorant to be able to assess and analyse the contents for ourselves&quot;

erm... Assange is on the record a number of times as saying that he had hoped that the on-line public would take up the data and run their own open source analyes, and combine their insights to build a better picture of what the data REALLY MEANS.

I agree that lionising or demonising Assange is a diversion. I see no hero here. And no need for a hero, much less a martyr.

I am currently working on the few Vatican cables released thus far to eludicate the layers of self-deception, denial  and propaganda that permeates the worldwide clerical abuse of children in Residential School Systems.

I wrote recently that the reporting of the cable that mentioned &#039;pressure&#039; applied on the part of the Irish Government should be seen in context : both the Irish Government (or State) and The Vatican are equally liable /culpable with regard to the culture that permitted such widespread abuses, and the ensueing cover-up once Surviuvors started bringing their evidence into the public domain. 

Damage Limitation by two equally culpable parties.

The Irish Government and The Vatican made a deal with each other, that effectively ring-fenced their civil liabilities by setting up a Redress Fund which also delayed and obstructed criminal prosecutions against known abusers and the operatives of the cover-up. Whilst the Redress process was ongoing......

It serves both if  The Vatican were to mention to a US diplomat, and any other less than critically aware dignatories and reporters that &#039;pressure&#039; was experienced from the Irish Government (not known for their back-bone). It makes the Irish Government look good. &quot;We tried our best!&quot; And the Vatican can state yet again the lie of it&#039;s status as a Sovereign State as a an incontrovertible fact of life.  And thus protect The Pope&#039;s immunity, and by extention, the Vatican.

Reporting that particular cable as is without analysis of the history and context, unwttingly (?) achieved the aims of both GOI and The Vatican.

To imagine that the kinds of well organised and profoundly manipulative people that typify Governance,  Secular and Religious,  do not sit down and work through the details and layers of their deceit, based upon many years of almost scientific research, in some detail,  before hand (which most media, typically,  do NOT imagine) is naive at best.

But it would take a Survivor to make those connections, to tease out the psychology between the lines (and lies).

And there are many, many Survivors of all kinds of State abuses whose voices have rarely ever entered into the mainstream public discourse, whose insight is deep, whose very survival is profound strength and who have much to offer in terms of how to deal with the abusers, and how to prevent further abuse.

They are excluded because the elephant they see in the room is the very psyche of the Society, and threatens everyone who has managed to find a niche within that Society.

The existence of WIKI LEAKS without the rest of us doing the work of engaging with the data, and running our own analyses, is pointless - Assange knows that.

When will the rest of the &#039;activista&#039; community get it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In releasing the information to these ‘architects of media disinformation’ as Chossudovsky describes them, Assange is implicitly saying that we, the public, are too stupid, moronic, or ignorant to be able to assess and analyse the contents for ourselves&#8221;</p>
<p>erm&#8230; Assange is on the record a number of times as saying that he had hoped that the on-line public would take up the data and run their own open source analyes, and combine their insights to build a better picture of what the data REALLY MEANS.</p>
<p>I agree that lionising or demonising Assange is a diversion. I see no hero here. And no need for a hero, much less a martyr.</p>
<p>I am currently working on the few Vatican cables released thus far to eludicate the layers of self-deception, denial  and propaganda that permeates the worldwide clerical abuse of children in Residential School Systems.</p>
<p>I wrote recently that the reporting of the cable that mentioned &#8216;pressure&#8217; applied on the part of the Irish Government should be seen in context : both the Irish Government (or State) and The Vatican are equally liable /culpable with regard to the culture that permitted such widespread abuses, and the ensueing cover-up once Surviuvors started bringing their evidence into the public domain. </p>
<p>Damage Limitation by two equally culpable parties.</p>
<p>The Irish Government and The Vatican made a deal with each other, that effectively ring-fenced their civil liabilities by setting up a Redress Fund which also delayed and obstructed criminal prosecutions against known abusers and the operatives of the cover-up. Whilst the Redress process was ongoing&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>It serves both if  The Vatican were to mention to a US diplomat, and any other less than critically aware dignatories and reporters that &#8216;pressure&#8217; was experienced from the Irish Government (not known for their back-bone). It makes the Irish Government look good. &#8220;We tried our best!&#8221; And the Vatican can state yet again the lie of it&#8217;s status as a Sovereign State as a an incontrovertible fact of life.  And thus protect The Pope&#8217;s immunity, and by extention, the Vatican.</p>
<p>Reporting that particular cable as is without analysis of the history and context, unwttingly (?) achieved the aims of both GOI and The Vatican.</p>
<p>To imagine that the kinds of well organised and profoundly manipulative people that typify Governance,  Secular and Religious,  do not sit down and work through the details and layers of their deceit, based upon many years of almost scientific research, in some detail,  before hand (which most media, typically,  do NOT imagine) is naive at best.</p>
<p>But it would take a Survivor to make those connections, to tease out the psychology between the lines (and lies).</p>
<p>And there are many, many Survivors of all kinds of State abuses whose voices have rarely ever entered into the mainstream public discourse, whose insight is deep, whose very survival is profound strength and who have much to offer in terms of how to deal with the abusers, and how to prevent further abuse.</p>
<p>They are excluded because the elephant they see in the room is the very psyche of the Society, and threatens everyone who has managed to find a niche within that Society.</p>
<p>The existence of WIKI LEAKS without the rest of us doing the work of engaging with the data, and running our own analyses, is pointless &#8211; Assange knows that.</p>
<p>When will the rest of the &#8216;activista&#8217; community get it?</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78612</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 03:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78612</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So lichen you obviously vetted the WikiLeaks story.  I&#039;d say then that you are a much more reliable source than &lt;i&gt;The New York Times&lt;/i&gt;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So lichen you obviously vetted the WikiLeaks story.  I&#8217;d say then that you are a much more reliable source than <i>The New York Times</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: lichen</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78610</link>
		<dc:creator>lichen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 01:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78610</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And why didn&#039;t the cuban exile woman not use a female condom when having sex?  Only the cia can answer that....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And why didn&#8217;t the cuban exile woman not use a female condom when having sex?  Only the cia can answer that&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: lichen</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78609</link>
		<dc:creator>lichen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 01:24:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78609</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re right deadbeat, the Saudi king is actually a great person, who would never mirror the ideals of his sponsor countries, or engage in any repression or killing.  How dare wikileaks defame such a legendary icon of leftist government?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right deadbeat, the Saudi king is actually a great person, who would never mirror the ideals of his sponsor countries, or engage in any repression or killing.  How dare wikileaks defame such a legendary icon of leftist government?</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78607</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 00:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know what lichen is talking about as Assange use of a condom is not even mentioned by the author.  What this article is about is the lack of journalistic integrity and the failure to vet WikiLeaks.  For example Michael Moore who supports Assange now finds himself correcting the record regarding misinformation from one of the WikiLeaks&#039; leak.    The story was ran as &quot;factual&quot; by the &lt;i&gt;The Guardian&lt;/i&gt; and failed to vet the information.

Thus this demonstrates that the WikiLeaks information cannot be taken on face value and needs to be vetted before it can be taken as &quot;gospel&quot;.  This affirms my critique of Amy Goodman on DN! who ran with the ALLEGED remarks of the Saudi King that was published in &lt;i&gt;The New York Times&lt;/i&gt; an outfit who published Judith Miller&#039;s LIES leading to the Iraq War.  

WikiLeaks is being hailed by the pseudo-Left but when they released the emails refuting &quot;Climate Change&quot; the were no accolades for WikiLeaks by the pseudo-Left.  Thus once again exposes the pseudo-Left as part of the deception.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what lichen is talking about as Assange use of a condom is not even mentioned by the author.  What this article is about is the lack of journalistic integrity and the failure to vet WikiLeaks.  For example Michael Moore who supports Assange now finds himself correcting the record regarding misinformation from one of the WikiLeaks&#8217; leak.    The story was ran as &#8220;factual&#8221; by the <i>The Guardian</i> and failed to vet the information.</p>
<p>Thus this demonstrates that the WikiLeaks information cannot be taken on face value and needs to be vetted before it can be taken as &#8220;gospel&#8221;.  This affirms my critique of Amy Goodman on DN! who ran with the ALLEGED remarks of the Saudi King that was published in <i>The New York Times</i> an outfit who published Judith Miller&#8217;s LIES leading to the Iraq War.  </p>
<p>WikiLeaks is being hailed by the pseudo-Left but when they released the emails refuting &#8220;Climate Change&#8221; the were no accolades for WikiLeaks by the pseudo-Left.  Thus once again exposes the pseudo-Left as part of the deception.</p>
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		<title>By: shabnam</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78600</link>
		<dc:creator>shabnam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2010 22:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78600</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now, due to  release  of the &#039;secret&#039;  information,  we are able to tell:

Assange didn’t use a condom when he was.....     What was the reason?

Was he in hurry not  to &#039;leak&#039; the &#039;secret&#039; cables related to Israeli&#039;s crime against humanity?    This question can be answered only by  Mossad.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, due to  release  of the &#8216;secret&#8217;  information,  we are able to tell:</p>
<p>Assange didn’t use a condom when he was&#8230;..     What was the reason?</p>
<p>Was he in hurry not  to &#8216;leak&#8217; the &#8216;secret&#8217; cables related to Israeli&#8217;s crime against humanity?    This question can be answered only by  Mossad.</p>
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		<title>By: lichen</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78597</link>
		<dc:creator>lichen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2010 21:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This article is very typical of the imperialist-feminist nonsense that many women are spreading against Assange and wikileaks.  These right-wingers are so fired up over the allegations that he didn&#039;t use a condom or call back the cuban exile cia plant that they lash out at wikileaks with idiotic conspiracy theories.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is very typical of the imperialist-feminist nonsense that many women are spreading against Assange and wikileaks.  These right-wingers are so fired up over the allegations that he didn&#8217;t use a condom or call back the cuban exile cia plant that they lash out at wikileaks with idiotic conspiracy theories.</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelKenny</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/12/wikileaks-play-the-ball-not-the-man/#comment-78577</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelKenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2010 16:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=26842#comment-78577</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The last paragraph says it all! And point 3 about presenting the cables as if everything they contain is the truth is the important one.  I would disagree with the author, though, in regard to the Assange quote at the beginning. I agree with him and I think that is why the internet is liar&#039;s paradise, a huge disinformation machine. A few professional propagandists (or even one, hiding behind several different identities) jump in quickly at the start of the debate to set the tone, whereupon the &quot;useful idiots&quot; chime in and, of course, don&#039;t want to appear to be out of sync with the &quot;prevailing viewpoint&quot;. &quot;I am a leftist. Tell me what leftists are supposed to think so that I can think it too&quot;, so to speak! At that point, anyone sufficiently lacking in scruple can manipulate the public debate.  But as Ms Webb-Pullman says, take a stab at coming to your own conclusions!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last paragraph says it all! And point 3 about presenting the cables as if everything they contain is the truth is the important one.  I would disagree with the author, though, in regard to the Assange quote at the beginning. I agree with him and I think that is why the internet is liar&#8217;s paradise, a huge disinformation machine. A few professional propagandists (or even one, hiding behind several different identities) jump in quickly at the start of the debate to set the tone, whereupon the &#8220;useful idiots&#8221; chime in and, of course, don&#8217;t want to appear to be out of sync with the &#8220;prevailing viewpoint&#8221;. &#8220;I am a leftist. Tell me what leftists are supposed to think so that I can think it too&#8221;, so to speak! At that point, anyone sufficiently lacking in scruple can manipulate the public debate.  But as Ms Webb-Pullman says, take a stab at coming to your own conclusions!</p>
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