Comments on: The Science of Public Deception

By: kalidas

kalidas — Mon, 29 Nov 2010 00:47:18 +0000

I despise and abhor the pleas on behalf of that infamous practice,
experimentation…I would rather submit to the worst of deaths, so far as
pain goes, than have a single dog or cat tortured to death on the pretence
of sparing me a twinge or two.
-Robert Browning

‘Do not kick him’, said Pythagoras to a man abusing a puppy. ‘In his body is
the soul of a friend of mine. I recognized the voice when he cried out’.

By: Charlie

Charlie — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:36:55 +0000

C. Marino is exactly right to point to the critical issue: the information vacuum. Some degree of animal experimentation may be defensible on the grounds of significant advances in medicine, etc. And some animal experiments are indeed humane, involving only observations of behavior or other nonviolent methods. But I suspect that humane and/or scientifically significant animal experimentation may be less common than we’d like to believe.

But how do we know? Animal experimentation is carried out in the dark. It’s like a national Gitmo for animals. We’re told the laws apply, but who’s the cop? How many researchers have ever been arrested and tried for animal cruelty? Any? If it’s billed as “research” can it never be torture?

I think information will change attitudes. The cosmetics industry got caught with its pants down through an exposé of their “researchers” torturing rabbits, cats, and dogs by blinding them with shampoos and other toiletries. Now, there’s a significant PR advantage for a number of those companies to proclaim “Not tested on animals” on their products.

Greed was the motivating factor in the cosmetics industry, and when their greed was used against them by the potential loss of sales, they changed. If activists can find a way to do the same thing to UF researchers, perhaps change may come there too.

You’ve probably already looked at it, but the vet school at UF is another money pit for animal experimentation, and believe me, there are some less than humane “research projects” there.

By: bozh

bozh — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 22:16:30 +0000

camille,
i often say that the only way out is to form an antipodal political party to the one that exists in u.s. today.
a political party that wld initially stand just for greater equality not only in earnings but also for a pantisocratic and timocratic governance.
not, of course, in an utopian sense!
just promoting three ideas and placing candidates at election time: ever greater participation of ever greater number of people in governance of any country and not just u.s.
followed by ensuring that each human get’s equal pay for equal needs; what wld be one’s needs or inheritance wld be determined by all those who wish to participate in the inquiry and via referendum enact it.
the third idea to promote wld be no wars of aggression.
and then see how things develop.
of course, all animal or human inheritance wld not be given back to us or biota in one day or even in decades.
and some people may die before mafia restores our in heratance! tnx

By: camille marino

camille marino — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:29:31 +0000

not sure i understand you bozh…

is your position that we should do nothing because we can’t do everything?

By: bozh

bozh — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 18:24:56 +0000

a spartan country [region, really] like u.s which sends young boys to kill people or bails out only the ‘best’ americans, cannot be changed by any organization, movement, march, protest; a fortiori so, if each going on a particular or singular mission!
such as? get ur jesus, save the children, end the drug wars, stop illegal immigration, pray, bring back troop, and another thousand causes.
in fact, the more ad hoc pursuits, the more mafia likes it. why not, when most of these organizations wld not agree on time of day.

so, the ruling class says, do u really want any of these organizations to govern u? look at them! forever arguing with everybody else and intragroup as well; as among greens, dissident sites, posters. tnx

By: bozh

bozh — Sun, 28 Nov 2010 17:51:20 +0000

yes to changing the attitude. but change in law comes first! such as? change the law which permits only certain people [well preselected and 'educated' ] to determine what children are taught and adults to hear-learn.
and what children, soldiers, housepeople are told is well known. it is also well known that 99% of americans approve of the system.
so, attitudes of 99% or even 999/permille, may change by going door to door. alas, attitude of the remaining one% may worsen.
and which controls utterly army, cia, fbi, police; nearly all information, etc. and all power comes from the barrel of the gun!

and, btw, does one think by going door to door for an ad hoc purpose [or even a much , much more general purpose] wld change the minds of americans who shout usa, usa, usa? and particularly changing one u.s law or lack thereof?

make their army, cia, fbi, police ours is the only way out. so get going and animals wld be respected and not to mention people!
the alternative appears stark: ever greater torture and abuse of some people and most animals.
pet ideas, projects, peeves wld never do! tnx

By: Don Hawkins

Don Hawkins — Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:52:31 +0000

But Eve what are you talking about? I have a penthouse in the city I have a six figure salary a secretary named Fran but am miserable. But Eve what do you want? I want you to marry me, ok. And then it began to move along in a perfectly straight line at a constant speed.

By: Don Hawkins

Don Hawkins — Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:30:11 +0000

Here’s a law that many try and change with no success.

Isaac Newton stated three laws of motion.
The first law deals with forces and changes in velocity. For just a moment, let us imagine that you can apply only one force to an object. That is, you could choose push the object to the right or you could choose to push it to the left, but not to the left and right at the same time, and also not up and to the right at the same time, and so on.
Under these conditions the first law says that if an object is not pushed or pulled upon, its velocity will naturally remain constant. This means that if an object is moving along, untouched by a force of any kind, it will continue to move along in a perfectly straight line at a constant speed.

By: camille marino

camille marino — Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:03:20 +0000

laws are created by and within the corporate-industrial complex to promote and protect their interests, not ours.

change attitudes and perceptions and, perhaps, the law will follow.

By: bozh

bozh — Sat, 27 Nov 2010 18:48:28 +0000

fine, fine! alas, alas, torturing animals and people is legal in u.s.
activism in this piece is not asking or demanding first thing be done first: change the law!
ok! they are well-meaning! but mafia is not! end of story and mystory! tnx