The above excerpt from a post by Sdliehs Xam on this thread at some point yesterday has stuck in my mind. It really encapsulates what’s wrong with his thinking.

His concept of how to respond to massive hunger in most of the world is “we feed them”. By “we”, who can he possibly mean? Is it safe to assume he has in mind the rest of the privileged social strata in which he is resident?

Which aggregate he assumes possesses sufficient stored foodstocks to feed “them”, long enough for them to “live” and reproduce themselves. I’m sure he’s correct on that point.

Next he parrots good old humanitarian Malthus: ” they live and population grows and starvation increases…this can be seen time and time again.”

It apparently never occurs to armchair philosopher Rudyard Shields that if he’d get his capitalist friends bootheels off people’s necks, they’d be able to feed themselves.

What a shame: there he is, trapped inside his cocoon of colonialist assumptions which to everybody else are plain as day but which to him are as invisible as Detective Sipowitz was to his latest profilee on the other side of the one-way glass.

As I said earlier, this attitude of his is a carbon copy of how the Brits justified letting Irish people starve during the Potato Famine, so yes it tends to resonate with me. “The Irish are pigs”, sayeth Her Majesty.

“They’ll just have a lot of Anchor Babies and wind up starving again, so why bother?”: thus sayeth Xamathrusta.

Nothing like Detached Objectivity!

There’s just no way 3 fools spouting the same nonsense are on this planet. Got to be no more than 2 talking to themselves. Patrick is the navel gazer.

Deadbeat wouldn’t know a BIG issue if it hit him in the head. Simmer down there.

I feel sorry for Max. Now there are THREE anti-Zionists that he has to contend with. Since the Blankfort/Hammond debate I’ve noticed the number of anti-ZPC participation on DV has grown. This is a good sign.

Also the quality of the arguments of by the anti-ZPC has improved. I’ve learned a lot about JINSA and Chaney’s’ affiliation. I hadn’t known that. I guess Antonia Juhasz , Naomi Klein nor Amy Goodman knew this either. Their investigations of Chaney stopped at Haliburton’s doorstep.

Therefore Max you can keep on chiding me. I hope you do because I’m the least of your worries.

You add nothing to the site. One cant be more of a zionist than that.

There’s just no way 3 fools spouting the same nonsense are on this planet. Got to be no more than 2 talking to themselves. Patrick is the navel gazer.

Deadbeat wouldn’t know a BIG issue if it hit him in the head. Simmer down there.

And now teapot is getting off on Raimundo. Geez just one enemy after another teaPOT.

Mil Grazie:)

Points well made.

There is nothing “grassroots” about this TP phenomenon. All the TP “spokespersons” who get national media attention are nothing but recycled far-right pro-war fanatics like Melanie Morgan, SF radio talkshow host who tried to organize a “caravan” of rightwing warmongers to go down to Crawford TX and disrupt what Cindy Sheehan and friends were doing. Or “TV Personality” Mark Williams, a favorite accomplice of Morgan’s and a long time krypto-kleagle professional racist.

Come on, Xam, all this personal crap is booooring. Can’t you come up with some more psuedo-intellectual verbiage so I can while away my lonely hours by demolishing it?

Well, lemme see what else you said that I can deconstruct…

Why don’t [Xam & Hooey] you point out why my facts are incorrect, or where the conclusions I draw don’t logically follow?

In all this time I can’t recall Hue presenting facts or bring some logical perspective to the table for consideration. I’m still waiting for Hue to bring his views other than what I have outlined here as major issues facing the USA.

On the BIG issues I’m in full agreement with Tf2. What Hue is trying to do is to inflate the small areas of disagreement between TF2 and myself in order to create a wedge and diminish the big areas of agreement that both Max and him and many on the “Left” sidestep.

IMO The biggest issues facing the United States TODAY are Zionism and Capitalism. Both are immense problems but as TF2 writes …

Zionism is a structure, which includes a web of human relationships and also a colossal inventory of non-human items including real estate; and also it is a set of practices, which are ongoing but have left traces in the historical record accurately describable as a trail of wreckage and felonies.

Saying that I feel that Zionism is the more pressing of the two. The reason why Zionism more so than Capitalism and what TF2 wrote is equally applicable to Capitalism is that Zionism goes relatively unmentioned by The Left. Even a Marxist can get an audience but trying being an anti-ZPC and overtly call out Jewish power in the USA and see if you can find an audience unless you are perhaps in the Black community.

I had a naive view of the Left until 2003 – 2004 but seeing the immense effort that The Left engages to divert attention away from the ZPC cannot be ignored. The next question is why? It is in seeking the answer to that the corruption of the Left becomes all too obvious. In other words the role of the “professional Left” (as Robin Gibbs puts it) is to limit questions, to confine the answers, and to shift the focus away from Zionism. This is why they are dubbed “gatekeepers”.

TF2 is right about Max. His “eco-libertarianism” sound great but it doesn’t address power and IMO is part of the “gatekeeper” process.

Going back to Glen Ford. I wish him lots of luck. While he has written critiques of Israeli Zionism but I have yet to see him make any mention of the ZPC. He does offer great analysis of White Supremacy and its legacy on the Black community. IMO it is Zionist Supremacy and its effect on the Black community (since Black Agenda is his focus) that’s missing from his analysis. Jeffrey Blankfort does a better job speaking about Zionism’s influence on Black politicians and community than African American journalists.

Going back to the recent meeting in Albany, there was an interesting “workshop” on whether there should be a Left/Right coalition.

The four participant were:

Kevin Zeese, Glen Ford, Medea Benjamin and Chris Gauvreau.

Zeese and Benjamin argued in favor of a Left/Right coalition.
Ford and Gauvreau argued against it.

You can find it on You Tube. This link is to Ford’s presentation.

If it took decades for the Left go get into this state and it’s going to take years before there is a real grassroots that can make the demands and take the kinds of action to upset the current order. Thus a Left/Right coalition CANNOT nor ever be the starting point. It is time for the Left to face reality.

Congratulations, you got that much right. However the truth contained in the proposition is obscured and rendered meaningless by the silliness preceding and following.

But let’s talk for a moment about the “non-monolithic” nature of the current power cum capital accumulation structure/process.

Up to WWII and for a time after, the US capitalist system and society was dominated by a hegemonic network of WASPs, mostly heirs of the industrial age Robber Barons such as the five Rockefeller brothers. This group, who often referred to themselves or/and each other as “Our Sort” (not “our crowd”, that’s a Jewish usage) for decades if not centuries controlled Wall St, the Ivy League colleges, and by dint of untiring efforts of the senior Rockefeller brother John D III, controlled most of publishing and other facets of the capitalist ideological apparatus.

But in the late sixties and early seventies, coinciding with the end of “Great Society” optimism, Vietnam-induced “malaise” and reaching a crescendo with the OPEC oil embargo, another group of capitalists with very different antecedents and ideological biases began to challenge the “Our Sort” WASPs and the Rockefellers for dominance of intra-capitalism institutions and ideology.

Most of the new bunch were based in the South and Western regions of the US, notably Texas where the Hunt family ruled the roost, Colorado where the Coors family ran things, and the Phoenix area. The Boeing interests in Seattle, having taken over local leadership from the still powerful Weyerhauser clan based in timber-harvesting, threw its weight behind the “new emerging forces”, as did a few Old Family heirs like Richard Mellon Scaife and the Poindexter family of Baltimore, Centennial Energy, Johns Hopkins and the US Navy.

So this made for a fairly even balance of forces on each side. Contention in the Competition/Collaboration mode continued for some years, until a new factor entered the equation: the Israeli Fifth Column.

The addition of the US “Jewish Community”, billionaire division, to the “Cowboy” side tipped the balance decisely in the cowboy side’s favor. But there was a joker in the deck: no sooner had the Rockefellers and allies been relegated to second place in the scheme of things, than the ZPC pushed the Cowboys out of the top spot. But the Cowboys were allowed to survive in relatively good shape, and having accepted their role as Junior Partners in the Zionist/Cowboy axis, continue to enjoy their present status.

Failure to account for the “Cowboys” and their support for/role in the hegemonic ZPC setup is, IMO, a major weakness in much contemporary criticism of the ZPC and its control of the US War & Occupation Machine.

There’s a lot of published research on the Cowboy faction, the Hunts, Coors, Boeing/Scoop Jackson, R M Scaife et al. If you can’t find sources to validate the hypothesis offered above, let me know. I’m sure I can locate an abundance of them.

Max Shields (:

A little too much reading dan e, and not enough thinking. A little too much anger and not enough patience to understand. You are a lesson in how not to think through to solve a problem. How’s it going for you in the real world dan e boy? Does your method work for you out there? Me thinks not.

Wonder if Deadbeat knows who he’s been josting with over the last month or so…I’m sure he’s disappointed to find that it’s just dan e come back as teapot or is it teabag.

Now he is this Patrick fellow? There just can’t be that many fools out there. His comments soundly strangely familiar. Total disingenuous. He like to play little games of minutia to pull you in. Not really into anything in particular but like to think he can “win” an argument. Doubt he’d fair well in a face to face debate where is bluff and jiving would be called out and transparent to all.

One day when dan e flies away like a big bird, may be DV can begin to collect some insightful discussion. First the pollution must dissipate.

The above is what happens when some privileged sob thinks he’s so smart he doesn’t need to study politics, political theory or political history, that all he needs is the smattering of Systems Theory he came across in a Computer Engineering class, plus the smattering of pseudo-scientific jargon picked up in freshman Psych 101.

So I guess we’re supposed to change IOF “behavior” by psyching them out with a bunch of touchy-feely tiedyed garbage left over from Haight Ashbury?

If that’s not it, what are you really saying? What course do you think is better than the Palestinians and the worldwide Palestine Solidarity movement came up with after years of discussion and internal struggle?

There you go, more Navaskyism, trying to provide cover for the capitalist rulingclass. I never said anything about “some guy behind the curtain”. It’s not one guy, it’s a bunch of them, and they’re not behind a curtain, they’re behind a bunch of blather spouted by dummies like you who buy into some variation of capitalist/zionist mythology.

They’re hiding in plain sight, behind Chomsky/Finkelstein/Zunes/Hammond/Green and a mass of jerks like you.

Have you ever looked into Palestinian history? Or Native American Indan history?

FINK, dan e, you STINK (: