In Defense of the Left-Right Distinction

Daniel Estulin gave an interview recently where he spoke about how the material that he was investigating was “really not about left and right”, the burgeoning world order that he uncovers — as put forward by the Bilderberg Group — it’s about people who “share the same financial ideas” according to Estulin. That’s odd, actually, because that sounds an awful lot like left and right, in this humble observer’s opinion. Those who share the same financial ideas are generally not the rank and file workers, the poor and the underclass; in the United States, at least, those who have been virtually wholly dispossessed from the political system.

Does anyone seriously think that global elites want nation-states — or sections of a world superstate — with high unionization rates, strong workers’ rights and protections, a reasonable distribution of wealth, free or affordable higher education, adequate pensions for retirement, guaranteed health coverage, and all that goes along with social democracy/a welfare state? Shills for the Randian “libertarian” ethos, within the deep political community are playing right into the hands of those who would proffer a global iron-fisted plutocratic state. This is United States foreign policy in a nutshell; pertaining to the economic prescriptions it seeks to impose upon “subaltern” countries.  It’s bizarre to me that anyone other than the extremely wealthy, would want to support this kind of approach.

Of course, increasingly the “left option” in any national political arena, is not an option at all. What is being offered as left today, in so many places; is really the center, center-left of old. We witnessed this “brilliantly” with the campaign of Barack H. Obama, where unparalleled hopes and aspirations — orchestrated by a deceptive marketing effort — have been all but whittled down to naught. Perhaps, in times of hypercapitalism, or the good, old-fashioned, staid, boring variety of it; most will side with the more brazen. At least those “hopes” will be actualized should a candidate of that orientation ascend to high political office.

It seems to me that what the Bilderbergers and such groups are really pushing for and advocating, is what so many have already ably described as a race to the bottom. The conservative approach to that seems to be to accept it — this race — and lower standards to any level that multinational corporate business would like to descend. To decrease expectations for people, disempower them, and atomize different constituencies that ought to be working with and supporting one another’s efforts. The program of the right and conservatives falls right into the hands of the Bilderberg elite interests.

Those who say that the elite agenda is that of a “socialist” world government, or that efforts are under way to “Europeanize” the U.S. really don’t make a lot of sense. Anyone who understands the history of corporate globalization, knows that corporate conglomerates have been fixing to supersede the world’s governments for some time. In the U.S. they have been wildly successful in turning a formerly relatively egalitarian country, with a significant industrial base; into a shell of its former self; a democracy in name only; and a paper tiger teetering on the edge of extinction. If this was just a ruse — global corporate government — it would be a ruse toward what? To do a 180 after so much has been achieved to third worldize, de-Europeanize the U.S., would, undoubtedly, be feckless and counterintuitive.

One can disregard the left/right divide at his or her own peril, because the global elite would never be so foolish as to make that decision. Don’t be under any illusions, the international elite are pushing for an uber right agenda of hypercapitalism on a global scale. Anything else would be far too forward thinking for their deeply backward agenda.

Sean Fenley is an independent progressive who would like to see the end of the dictatorial duopoly of the so-called two party adversarial system. He would also like to see some sanity brought to the creation and implementation of current and future U.S. military, economic, foreign and domestic policies. Read other articles by Sean.

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  1. hayate said on August 24th, 2010 at 8:35am #

    Interesting article, but:

    “In the U.S. they have been wildly successful in turning a formerly egalitarian country, with a significant industrial base; into a shell of its former self; a democracy in name only; and a paper tiger teetering on the edge of extinction.”

    Is naive mythology. The usa has always been a banana republic, run by the rich. The places that were egalitarian and/or democratic were the regions occupied by Native Americans and those few ex-Europeans who sought to join up with them.

    “Does anyone seriously think that global elites want nation-states — or sections of a world superstate — with high unionization rates, strong workers’ rights and protections, a reasonable distribution of wealth, free or affordable higher education, adequate pensions for retirement, guaranteed health coverage, and all that goes along with social democracy/a welfare state?” & “To decrease expectations for people, disempower them, and atomize different constituencies that ought to be working with and supporting one another’s efforts.”

    This is corporate policy. Grab the market share and do this through monopolies. Like gangsters and their turf wars, same thing, same sort of minds. This is also what zionism is about, who are intertwined in the nwo multinational corporate structure. Perhaps are the dominant faction among them. The zionists do handle most the pr for this rubbish.

    Corporations/monoploy capitalism and democracy can not exist together.

  2. Sean_F said on August 24th, 2010 at 9:36am #

    I meant egalitarian relative to the recent past, but I didn’t make that explicit (had to check the definition it doesn’t necessarily mean equality but promotion of equalitarian principles). Real wages in the U.S. rose from 1830 to until the 1970s then stopped. The U.S. was the most egalitarian of Western Europe/North America/Japan in 1970 but has been moving more and more to a two-tiered society.

  3. MichaelKenny said on August 24th, 2010 at 10:10am #

    This is just plain silly! One bunch of Americans screeching about an international communist conspiracy, the other screeching about an international capitalist conspiracy!

  4. Sean_F said on August 24th, 2010 at 10:24am #

    I didn’t say anything about a conspriracy. I’m not aware of how successful or unsuccessful Bilderberg is. They are probably promoting other things besides a race to the bottom, but when you have people talking about a socialist world government or Europeanizing the U.S. I don’t take that seriously. The evidence points to something else.

  5. teafoe2 said on August 24th, 2010 at 12:27pm #

    Mr Fenley makes a number of valid points, but fails to mention Zionism, Palestine vs Isreal, the Neocons, the Zionist Power Configuration or to identify the makeup of these “elites”.

    Any analysis that fails to accurately identify and provide a general description of the above factors is so vague as to at best be meaningless, and at worst be used to corroborate false descriptions of reality such as those offered by Zionist flaks.

  6. observing said on August 24th, 2010 at 1:01pm #

    All comments so far appear to have fallen into the “atomization” trap Fenley describes. Instead of gathering together to collectively expose and de-legitimize the elitist agenda in its various guises, there is endless bickering about which is the correct apparent manifestation to even discuss.

    All empires/regimes and economic interest groups serve only the aims of those who benefit most. The wealthy elite. Any “leader” who denies this is either a liar or a fool.

    Zionist, political, racial, Bilderbergist or whatever is of no greater importance that the other, beside the potential discovery of the keystone or Achilles Heel we can use to bring the juggernaut to a halt.

    The common thread is the use of economic/political/legislative strategies backed by military force and educational/media propaganda to control the masses to accept their wealth-stealing activities as being in “our” best interests.

    While “the left” remains at each others throats about who’s rattle has been broken most egregiously, the wealthy elite steadily pushes their agenda along.

  7. Deadbeat said on August 24th, 2010 at 1:27pm #

    Observing writes …

    All comments so far appear to have fallen into the “atomization” trap Fenley describes. Instead of gathering together to collectively expose and de-legitimize the elitist agenda in its various guises, there is endless bickering about which is the correct apparent manifestation to even discuss.

    Which comments? You’re as vague as the writer. I assume you mean hayate and T42. If so then you are introducing a strawman in order to restrict criticism of a very observable omission by the author. Zionism has a great deal of influence on the political economy of the U.S. and needs to be exposed.

    While “the left” remains at each others throats about who’s rattle has been broken most egregiously, the wealthy elite steadily pushes their agenda along.

    This again goes to the very core of what’s missing from the author’s commentary. “The Left” (and I’m glad you put it in quotations) is highly influenced and corrupted by Zionism. In fact it is when you examine “the Left” that this become quite obvious and egregious. Exposing “The Left’s” adherence to Zionism is where you’ll see the Left at its most agitated and vicious. The fact that “the Left” elevated a professed Zionist as its intellectual leader is the clearest example of its corruption.

    The author makes some good points about “Left”vs “Right” (note the quotes) but fails to mention the principles that define the Left. Those principles are not just limited to workers vs the rich.

    In other words, Chomsky who personifies “the Left” certainly does not adheres to left-wing principles. Therefore since the author himself fails to articulate that foundation it comes as no surprise that his analysis would fail to mention Zionism.

    “The Left” is not bounded by Obama, “Center-Left” or Liberals. “The Left” in the U.S. is bounded by Chomsky and analyzing his influence and his role in the perpetuation of Zionism and corruption of the Left in the U.S. is what’s missing.

  8. observing said on August 24th, 2010 at 2:14pm #

    Sorry, everything “wrong” in the world is not about Zionism, or even Israel or Judaism. Is it but one major factor, perhaps, but to me it appears to be just another “weapon of mass distraction”. Some group profits from the activities of the “Zionists” et. al., but even a cursory glance at the Dow Jones will find the the same arms dealers, military suppliers and oil corporate types filling their pockets while poor and working class people of all religious stripes and citizenry die for the “cause”.

    The wealthy seldom send their children to die for their ideologies, “left, right or center”. I’m sure just as many Bilderberg progeny are dying as enlisted soldiers as US Senate member progeny… none, so it IS about rich vs poor. But do the Bilderberg progeny and hired hands inhabit the military supplier boardrooms and Pentagon war rooms where the “war for profit” schemes are so skillfully foisted upon the rest of us? You bet.

    All relevant politics in the US is so far right of center as to be essentially fascist. But like fish not seeing water, US citizens can’t see that.

    To define “the policies of the left” or even the “right” is a fool’s errand. Judge them for what they do.

    Still bickering, still palying into the wealthy elites’ game plan.

  9. teafoe2 said on August 24th, 2010 at 2:53pm #

    Dear “observing”: Deadbeat is correct.

    Please observe, dear DVers, the hoary pseudo-“Left” fallacious proposition “observing” resurrects:

    “Instead of gathering together to collectively expose and de-legitimize the elitist agenda in its various guises, there is endless bickering about which is the correct apparent manifestation to even discuss.”

    Observing gives his game away when he characterizes discussion and analysis of serious problems as “bickering”. He admits that “the elitist agenda” appears in various guises, and urges us to expose and de-legitimize it, but when a few of us start doing exactly that, he calls it “bickering”.

    There is no substitute for clarity. Efforts to bring about change on the scale required need to be guided by an accurate assessment of the problem.

    Observe “observing’s” next offering: “Zionist, political, racial, Bilderbergist or whatever is of no greater importance that the other, beside the potential discovery of the keystone or Achilles Heel we can use to bring the juggernaut to a halt.”

    I wish these confusion-addicts would couch their pitches in coherent English, so we could agree or disagree with them without first having to decypher them.

    “Zionist, political, racial, Bilderbergist or whatever is of no greater importance that the other,…” So should we assume he meant “than” when he typed “that”? If so, exactly what is this “other”?

    I guess he means that none of the aspects of the Prevailing Insanity he lists are more significant than others on his list, or any that could be listed but aren’t? And that none of them are of any importance “beside the potential discovery…”, i.e., he says that nothing that exists is significant “beside” something that exists only as a possibility.

    But silly as that sounds, Observing has stumbled onto something. But didn’t recognize it through the fog of his preconceptions.

    “…discovery of the keystone or Achilles Heel we can use to bring the juggernaut to a halt.”

    The “keystone” is the two-headed Zionist Power Configuration, including its ideological component, the prevailing “Zionist Consensus”, which is the Achilles Heel since it consists of lies and falsehoods which render it a house of cards ready to collapse as soon as accurate information can be delivered to even such a severely brainwashed group as the US Public.

    The arrowpoint which continues to penetrate deeper and deeper into the callused heel of the Zionist Enterprise is the BDS movement.

    Yes, it needs to penetrate much deeper than it has so far. So everybody with any attachment to those noble ideals of Justice, Fairness, Human Decency, Peace, Ecological Wisdom etc need to get behind BDS and give it all you can.

    Discussion of Isreali and pro-Isreali economic interests will inevitably give rise to discussion of the process of money-capital accumulation by US and other “G-8″ elites. The more BDS targets the ZPC, the more the public will hear from Professor Chomsky and friends about the evils of US Imperialism.

    BDS is a way activists can take action in their local communities which will impact the ideological “balance of belief” on a global scale.

    It is a way to nullify the Zionist control of the MSM and of most public institutions in the US. Local media will have only two choices: either cover presentation of BDS proposals, resolutions, petitions to local governmental, quasi-governmental and “civil society” decision-making bodies, which will involve focussing public attention on things the ZPC wants ignored, or NOT covering these public events, which will cause said “news” outlets to lose credibility with even larger sectors of the public. BDS activity puts local media and “working press” in a bind.

  10. teafoe2 said on August 24th, 2010 at 3:14pm #

    “Observing” continues to peddle an obsolete description of a capitalism and a capitalist rulingclass, referred to as “elites” or “the wealthy”, which no longer exists in the form he describes.

    The US rulingclass and US political institutions have been radically transformed over the decades since Nixon went kaput and Bob Strauss (not to be confused with Leo S.) installed Mr Peanut in the White House.

    Anyone uncertain about it can start by checking out the review by Steve Sniegowski in today’s PulseMedia, and continue by checking out SS’s book “The Transparent Cabal”.

    There’s a reason why Libertarian Conservatives and rightwing conspiracy theorists focus on “exposing” the “Bilderbergers”, Trilateral Commission, Skull & Bones and similar now-toothless relics of an earlier stage in the career of Imperialism.

    The formerly dominant Rockefeller-led capitalist faction has been relegated to second place in the capitalist pecking order; the top spot is now the exclusive turf of the trillionaire Jewish puppetmasters who pull the strings on the Neocons.

    Come on, Observer, get real:)

  11. observing said on August 24th, 2010 at 4:33pm #

    Of anyone here. I am not “peddling” anything.

    It is the people who keep trying to pound the Zionist/Anti-Zionist mythology down our throats that have an agenda. I read comments less and less frequently here because I am tired of seeing the same constant Zionist/Anti-Zionist bickering applied to any issue. just because you and Deadbeat agree doen’t make it so or me wrong.

    In ANY culture, the wealthy decide, live in luxury and the rest do the work and die in their wars.

    Simple, no?

  12. teafoe2 said on August 24th, 2010 at 5:14pm #

    no, it’s not that simple.

    “In ANY culture, the wealthy decide, live in luxury and the rest do the work and die in their wars.” First of all, it’s not a question of “culture” but of the mode of production and the structure of rule.

    Your terminology is too imprecise: saying that “the wealthy decide” ignores the actually very complex process via which the desires and impulses of the currently ascendant fraction of “the wealthy” are translated into government policies. “The wealthy” are not a monolithic uniform group, all with identical interests and preferences.

    Allow me to ask you, Mr O, have you ever heard of the Neocons? Norman Podhoretz? Leo Strauss?

    Have you ever visited Phillip Weiss’ “Mondoweiss” page? Or Mohamad Idrees Ahmad’s PulseMedia page? Where you will see a link to articles by Steven Walt? And a review of this Vaisse’s History of the Neocon Movement?

    Do you disagree with Walt & Mearsheimer’s thesis that the Israel Lobby controls US foreign & military policy decisions? Do you find Jas Petras unconvincing? What about Sniegowski? Did you follow the recent debate on this site and overflowing onto Pulse between Jeff Blankfort and one J. Hammond about the negative aspects of Noam Chomsky’s pontifications to the effect that BDS is “hypocritical”? Do you find the work of Kathy and the late Bill Christison on the forces behind the “Iraqwar” without merit?

    It’s not that I or Deadbeat do not agree with you, the facts don’t agree with you.

    Where did you learn that “anti-Zionism” is “mythology”? Sounds like you’ve been reading JTA, Debka, the Fundermentalist, maybe the Norcal Jewish Bulletin? The Shofar?

    Denouncing Zionism does not amount to “bickering”. Saying so is the act of a Zionist hasbarat.

    Yes, I have an agenda. Promote BDS, expose the criminal “state of isreal”, expose the neocon hijacking of the US/Nato Imperialist State Apparatus, debunk the neocon “war on terror” snowjob.

    And every time another pro-Israel hasbara artist shows up on DV, or another simpleminded soul repeating oversimplified formulas from the previous era’s “revolutionary” catechism, if I have time I do my best to rebut their nonsense.

  13. hayate said on August 24th, 2010 at 6:03pm #

    Sean_F said on August 24th, 2010 at 9:36am

    The definition of egalitarian involves an evening of social disparities. In this Europe was far ahead of the usa in 1970, and would have been much further ahead had not WW2 happened. In 1970, much of Europe had more equality than americans (it varies from country to country). They had the social services, the socialist democracies, the better political representation, less difference between the highest and lowest economic tiers. More freedom of expression. Same with Canada. Even Japanese had better social services. The usa still had rampant racial discrimination. Americans traded away their potential social advances for higher wages (for some, mostly white people) in a way most Europeans did not. That is even more true today.

    observing said on August 24th, 2010 at 1:01pm

    At first I thought you just wanted to argumentative.Then I noticed you latched on to the “don’t mention zionism” routine and realised that was your real angle. I noticed you didn’t manage to fool any one. :D

  14. Don Hawkins said on August 24th, 2010 at 6:25pm #

    Fire roared through mountain wilderness northwest of Los Angeles on Tuesday, forcing evacuations as flames threatened dozens of homes, authorities said. NBC

    NO signs (political or otherwise) as they may deter from the peaceful message we are bringing to Washington. Glenn beck dot com

    No signs is there…………………..Alaska, Russia, Portugal, China, Pakistan to mention a few.

    Oh if you live in the Northeast U.S. keep an eye on the weather next week.

    http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/gfs/18/images/gfs_ten_192m.gif

    That’s only one model know more by Sunday.

  15. Sean_F said on August 24th, 2010 at 8:06pm #

    My source on that was Harriet Fraad, who founded the journal Rethinking Marxism (a viral article she wrote awhile ago). I don’t know what she’d be basing that on, I’d assume distribution of wealth.

  16. Don Hawkins said on August 25th, 2010 at 2:21am #

    NO signs (political or otherwise) as they may deter from the peaceful message we are bringing to Washington. Glenn beck dot com

    Glenn Beck is so peaceful and for his thing in DC at the Lincoln memorial this Saturday NO signs (political or otherwise) hay isn’t that unconstitutional. The primary elections yesterday big new’s as we all go down the drain in not such slow motion waving at the crowd. We seem to hear more about protests these day’s so where are they? Practice makes perfect and just think maybe we can get cap and trade a joke on the human race it will not work so that’s why they just might pass it? Last night on Larry King he had on four well dressed fool’s and one of the fool’s said about the economy we just don’t know what to do if we did we would do it.

    From the beginning of preparedness in 2011 , American leaders recognized that the stakes were too high to permit the change over from fossil fuels to clean renewable energy to grow in an unfettered, laissez-faire manner. American manufacturers, for instance, could not be trusted to stop producing consumer goods and to start producing materiel for the change over.

    To organize the slowdown of the economies Worldwide and to ensure that it produced the goods needed for the changeover , the federal government spawned an array of mobilization agencies which not only often purchased goods (or arranged their purchase) , but which in practice closely directed those goods’ manufacture and heavily influenced the operation of private companies and whole industries. On going talks with China and India were spawned with agreement’s to share all research working together was for the first time achieved.

    Solution therefore required a rising fee on oil, gas and coal – a carbon fee collected from fossil fuel companies at the domestic mine or port of entry. All funds collected were distributed to the public on a per capita basis to allow lifestyle adjustments and spur clean energy innovations. As the fee increased, fossil fuels were phased out, replaced by carbon-free energy and efficiency. Farming practices Worldwide began to change and those that needed help got help. Did we all live happily ever after no but it was a start and America for the first time began to lose weight.

    A straight line may be the shortest path between two points, but it is not necessarily the fastest way to get where you want to go. Ladies and gentlemen, you’re entering the wondrous dimension of imagination, next stop……………………………………………..

    NO signs (political or otherwise) the word from the highest authority am sure. A few spot’s on planet Earth Lincoln memorial, Goldman Sach’s building, Fox New’s New York City, Wall Street same city, Capital Washington DC.

  17. Don Hawkins said on August 25th, 2010 at 4:56am #

    There is still time just not on the present path. We have a choice fight back or keep listening and following a few people with a very dark agenda. If we can try will it be easy no very hard indeed and boring it will not be but one big plus is we all get our mind back fight back.

  18. Josie Michel-Bruening said on August 25th, 2010 at 7:39am #

    Sorry, for some commentators, I could not manage to read all.
    I am noticing a lot of misunderstandings, as well as concerning the “Bilderberg” group, as what “observing” said.
    I did read, however the first comments, and I want to say that I agree with those of “observing”.
    My impression is that – as most of the time – the so-called left people are building a circle and opening squadfire against each other instead of searching for alternative constructive projects to which all of us ore at least a represantaive group can agree too, so that there can be done steps in direction for more justice and peace.
    This a word from Berthold Brecht (translated into my poor Engish) “He said, ‘I cannot help all!’ Therefore, he did not help any one.”
    I could not bear life if not being engaged in such a project.

  19. observing said on August 25th, 2010 at 8:04am #

    Yes it is VERY simple.

    Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

    Another useful nugget… “divide and conquer”… consider yourself doing the work of the abusers by bickering about what constitutes “the wealthy elite” and try to confabulate that I am falling for the old “show me the conspiracy” line. The divisions within opposition to the corporate/militarist/elite combine are largely self inflicted. You perpetuate this. Shame on you.

    Agreed, the Zionists are ONE part of the established power base currently abusing power. But they do not operate in a vacuum and to think they “rule the world” is preposterous.

    To suggest that by eliminating the “zionist project” (or whatever label you wish to hang on it) all will be right in the world is obviously incorrect. The capitalist “project” began long before Zionism or Israel were a glimmer in any human’s imagination.

    The wealthy and powerful, and those who wish to be so, have taken advantage of those around them since time immemorial. But we now have the history, intellect and communication systems to push back the isolation and fragmentation within and between populations that allowed tin pot dictators and greedy business types to operate with impunity. Bullies can only operate when their misdeeds are kept secret.

    But instead the game has become “my issue is more important than yours”, instead of “we are all talking about the same issue, the local symptoms vary”. If I were a Bilderberg progeny, I would be laughing out loud to watch the opposition to corporatism/militarism/despotism chase their tails fighting about details instead of unifying to bring down the system that oppresses them.

    And hayate… I DID NOT SAY THIS,
    observing said on August 24th, 2010 at 1:01pm

    At first I thought you just wanted to argumentative.Then I noticed you latched on to the “don’t mention zionism” routine and realised that was your real angle. I noticed you didn’t manage to fool any one. :D
    ————
    Again, I must have really hit a nerve here. As far as I’m concerned, a valid issue has been turned into a weapon of mass distraction, a media sideshow (with real abused, starving, dead Palestinians, unfortunately) that detracts from the simple fact the US/Anglo elite class and its military/corporations have been spreading death and destruction world-wide for centuries. Israel/Palestine is simply one more sea of blood to be accounted for by the colonialist Bilderberg progeny and their ilk.

    Zionism pro, con, whatever, can be “mentioned”all you want, but sheer repetition does NOT a more compelling case make. It merely becomes more noise to wade through when trying to look past the local “issues” to the root/systemic causes.

  20. teafoe2 said on August 25th, 2010 at 10:21am #

    Josie, since you are “…searching for alternative constructive projects to which all of us ore at least a represantaive group can agree…”, isn’t the global BDS campaign exactly such a constructive project? One which doesnt require ideological conformity or agreement with any party platform?

  21. hayate said on August 25th, 2010 at 10:43am #

    teafoe2 said on August 25th, 2010 at 10:35am

    It’s pretty obvious, isn’t it. :D

  22. teafoe2 said on August 25th, 2010 at 10:43am #

    So, Mr O, claiming that divisions within the “left” are more “self-inflicted” than they are a result of deliberate strategies deployed by the “elite combine” (sic)amounts to another exercise in Blaming the Victim.

    You are an apologist for the “left” version of the Prevailing Mythology. You speak of wanting to get at “the root causes” but you seem to think that can be accomplished by parroting tired cliches from the now-defunct People’s World.

  23. teafoe2 said on August 25th, 2010 at 10:53am #

    Josie, DV readers, consider this gem: “Israel/Palestine is simply one more sea of blood to be accounted for by the colonialist Bilderberg progeny and their ilk.”

    Modern organized zionism dates from the 1897 Basel Conference organized by Herzl, Max Nordau, Rabbi Ussushkin and associates. The Bilderberg group was founded in 1954.

    Mr O of course disdains such “details”. He wants us to ignore the actual history of the zionist project, and attribute the whole thing to a conspiracy launched by the Bilderberg group.

    what nonsense.

  24. teafoe2 said on August 25th, 2010 at 11:36am #

    Mr O posts: “The capitalist “project” began long before Zionism or Israel were a glimmer in any human’s imagination”.

    So what?

    Actually the proposition is an exaggeration; pious adherents of the Mosaic faith have been reciting “Next Year In Jerusalem” since Bar Kokba was a pup. But even if we accept the assertion as factual, what difference does it make to anything?

  25. teafoe2 said on August 25th, 2010 at 12:34pm #

    CHURCH BOYCOTT CALLS RING LOUDER
    By Sarah Irving, The Electronic Intifada, 25 August 2010

    The world’s churches have long been one of the
    battlegrounds of the boycott, divestment and sanctions
    (BDS) movement. With the strengthening of the BDS
    movement, a number of churches across the globe have seen
    the boycott of Israeli and Israeli settlement goods
    hotting up, and recent weeks have witnessed some notable
    victories.

    http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article11482.shtml

  26. Deadbeat said on August 25th, 2010 at 1:17pm #

    Josie Michel-Bruening says…

    My impression is that – as most of the time – the so-called left people are building a circle and opening squadfire against each other instead of searching for alternative constructive projects to which all of us ore at least a represantaive group can agree too, so that there can be done steps in direction for more justice and peace.

    I don’t know if its fear, ignorance, delusion. or deception. What Josie doesn’t want to examine is that the Left cannot be trusted to stand up and defend its own principles. This is why the Left will find coherence. Left-wing configurations fall apart for this reason. The last incarnation of this was during the 2003 anti-war movement and the 2004 Nader campaign.

    BDS is a new opportunity and right now “the Left” has not figured out how they can put themselves in front of this burgeoning movement. It’s not as if they haven’t tried. The oracle of the Left, Noam Chomsky, has found a strawman to diminish BDS (“do good vs fell good” boycott).

    Rather than examine that behavior, Josie want us to take the “can we all get along” approach which is a subtle way to silence dissent. Especially dissent of the Zionist Left.

    The indoctrination of the Left by Zionists have really corrupted it. We’ll see how far BDS can go. What is interesting and hopeful of BDS this time as opposed to the 2003 anti-war movement is that it is NOT being led by the “Left”. In fact the movement has been going on without them.

    I found it laughable that Phyllis Bennis tried to put herself out in front saying that the “Left” was in front via the so-called boycott of Caterpillar especially after the death of Rachel Corrie. As I recall the Corries relied on Edward Said for support. They didn’t run to the “Left”. The Corries also began to speak out about the Israel Lobby and we know from Jeffrey Blankfort that Bennis never agreed with the notion that the Congress is Zionist-Occupied territory.

    As T42 writes …

    And every time another pro-Israel hasbara artist shows up on DV, or another simpleminded soul repeating oversimplified formulas from the previous era’s “revolutionary” catechism, if I have time I do my best to rebut their nonsense.

    I don’t do it as well as T42 but I’m glad that DV become a vanguard for providing a voice for real leftist dissidents.

  27. Deadbeat said on August 25th, 2010 at 3:10pm #

    This is why the Left will find coherence

    That should have read …

    This is why the Left will NOT find coherence

  28. observing said on August 25th, 2010 at 6:12pm #

    I have neither the time nor the patience to endlessly parry and thrust with such narrow minds.

    But know this: Your constant misapplication of “zionism” and “anti-zionism” to EVERY article is tiresome to any readers who have and seek a wider view of world affairs and history. I AVOID articles involving zionism because I know what the result will be. More endless confusion and distraction, not developing clarity.

    In the simplest of terms, STICK TO THE TOPIC OR DON’T COMMENT. What you do is referred to as “threadjacking”, considered VERY impolite in most online communities. DV is probably one of the few places where your shenanigans are still tolerated.

    And talk about missing the general point!!! SO WHAT if the Bilderberg Group is a fairly recent manifestation of a wealthy elite organizing against the masses (and other elites…) for the specific purpose of co-opting democratic processes and fair commerce. And imagine, I was commenting on an article where the the Bilderberg Group is mentioned in the FIRST PARAGRAPH. Did the writer mention zionism OR Israel/Palestine ANYWHERE?

    But no, we all must tolerate yet another round of endless inside running jabs and a multiplicity of arcane, rambling comments on the Israel/Palestine issue to the exclusion of all else. Those endless barrages do NOTHING to further the cause of Palestinians in particular and social justice world wide. And probably actually drives people away from looking any further into the articles here.

    But that’s what you wanted, to shout down any voices you disagree with… mission accomplished.

  29. teafoe2 said on August 25th, 2010 at 6:55pm #

    Well, Mr. O, if you continue to insist on posting noxious nonsense, I will continue to do my best to expose it.

    This is a site which primarily publishes articles dealing with political matters. Since Zionism is the biggest taboo political FACT on the planet at present, no coherent discussion of political matters is possible without taking it into account, without the participants making clear their position vis a vis “the Jewish State” and the Zionist Power Configuration which has taken over the US bourgeois state apparatus, ideological, political and financial.

    Mr O complains that other posters are engaging in “thread-jacking”, and follows with a demand that commenters “stick to the topic”. That is, to “the topic” as defined by Mr O.

    My original comment offered limited praise for Sean F’s article, while attempting to point out its major weakness, the mis-identification of the Bilderberg group as the key concentration of power pushing a global capitalist agenda.

    So while I agree with the proposition that any attempt to argue that distinctions between “left” and “right” are obsolete is nothing but propaganda in service of the “right”, I vehemently disagree with the corny mythology promoted by petty-bourgeois charlatans hoping to sell books that everything is run by the Bilderbergers, Illuminati, Skull & Bones, Bohemian Club or WASPy aliens just landed in Area 51.

    Mr O implies that he belongs to a superior group, “…who have and seek a wider view of world affairs and history.” I’m sorry Mr O, but until you support this assertion with some demonstration of wider historical and analyitical knowledge than I bring to this forum, your assertion is nothing but a string of words, “Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing”.

  30. teafoe2 said on August 25th, 2010 at 7:09pm #

    Mr 0.0 said this: “Israel/Palestine is simply one more sea of blood to be accounted for by the colonialist Bilderberg progeny and their ilk.”

    My reading of the above sentence is that Mr Zero wants readers to believe that the Zionist Enterprise was is a project launched by children of the Bilderbergers, “and their ilk”. Which is a pretty far-fetched proposition, I agree, but that’s what he said.

    If that’s not what Mr Zip meant to say, why doesn’t he clarify what he DID mean, instead of going off into an apoplectic rant?

    Or did he mean that the Poale le Zion were among the Bilderberger heirs’ “ilk”?

  31. Deadbeat said on August 25th, 2010 at 7:18pm #

    observing observes …


    I have neither the time nor the patience to endlessly parry and thrust with such narrow minds.

    I see. It’s OK to confuse activists with fallacies and to distract them with Chomskyite axioms, bromides and cliches regardless how false or incorrect they may be. If the discussion was about “War for Oil ™” which has been since proven false that would be the within your acceptable bounds of the “wider” world view. Zionism however is “off the table”. Even when those who make such assertions can back it up with factual evidence and logical arguments.


    But know this: Your constant misapplication of “zionism” and “anti-zionism” to EVERY article is tiresome to any readers who have and seek a wider view of world affairs and history. I AVOID articles involving zionism because I know what the result will be. More endless confusion and distraction, not developing clarity.

    Where is the “misapplication”? Can you be more specific in your assertion? If we are misapplying Zionism I’d like to know where. I know I’m not infallable. I keep and open mind and am willing to learn. There has been some great insight on DV such as those by James Petras, Jeffrey Blankfort, Shabnam, hayate, rehmat, T42, and others. Can you site where they have “clouded” the discussion? Inquirying minds like to know.


    In the simplest of terms, STICK TO THE TOPIC OR DON’T COMMENT. What you do is referred to as “threadjacking”, considered VERY impolite in most online communities. DV is probably one of the few places where your shenanigans are still tolerated.

    How is discussing Zionism “threadjacking” especially since over the past 40 years those on the “Left” who had the microphome and the megaphone ignored Zionism and covered for it. You sir/madam are engaging in what you call “threadjacking” by seeking to limit of the bounds of commentary. The problem is that you want us to ignore Zionism just like Chomsky wants us to ignore AIPAC and BDS. “move along … nothing to consider here … move along”.

    Look observing this is an article describing the Left v. Right. The problem is that bounds the author set up was a strawman. He chooses to limit those boundaries such it fails to examing the Left especially the Chomskyite Left. It is important to analyze the Chomskyite Left in order to understand how it is corrupted by Zionism. And to be able to free the Left in order to confront an issue that it has refused to recongnize for greater than 40 years.


    And talk about missing the general point!!! SO WHAT if the Bilderberg Group is a fairly recent manifestation of a wealthy elite organizing against the masses (and other elites…) for the specific purpose of co-opting democratic processes and fair commerce. And imagine, I was commenting on an article where the the Bilderberg Group is mentioned in the FIRST PARAGRAPH. Did the writer mention zionism OR Israel/Palestine ANYWHERE?

    That’s the problem. What we “observed” observing was the obvious missing analysis of Zionism and its terrable influence upon the U.S. poltical economy and the Left. You seem to think that Zionism is stuck somewhere only in Israel. Zionism is right at home in the U.S. and what do you plan to do about?

    Zionism is here alongside home grown White Supremacy. Yet somehow discussing White Supremacy is within the bounds of your narrow limits but when the discussion gets EXPANDED to Zionism, especially American Zionism we are labeled as being “narrow” because you either want to confuse and divert activists from analyzing Zionism or are uncomfortable with the notion that especially Leftist Jews may be as they profess to be. (Except for Chomsky of course since he is a professed Zionist).


    But no, we all must tolerate yet another round of endless inside running jabs and a multiplicity of arcane, rambling comments on the Israel/Palestine issue to the exclusion of all else. Those endless barrages do NOTHING to further the cause of Palestinians in particular and social justice world wide. And probably actually drives people away from looking any further into the articles here.

    Tolerate? Look observing you like anyone else can make a cogent argument. Make one rather than engaging in cry-baby tactics. Or is that you can find a decent logical rejoinder to support your position so you have to lash out with irrational complaints.

    And regarding Israel/Palestine, as I already mentioned, Zionism is not restricted to Israel/Palestine. It is central to Zionism but not restricted to it.


    But that’s what you wanted, to shout down any voices you disagree with… mission accomplished.

    Shout down? Whose SHOUTING? :-)

    Make an argument. That’s what this board is all about. Hell Jeremy Hammond spent two weeks arguing in behalf of Chomsky. Get real! This is a discussion board. You have a keyboard. Type your thoughts. No one is stopping you.

    Sheesh.

  32. teafoe2 said on August 25th, 2010 at 7:20pm #

    Mr O: “I was commenting on an article where the the Bilderberg Group is mentioned in the FIRST PARAGRAPH. Did the writer mention zionism OR Israel/Palestine ANYWHERE?”

    Dear Mr O: that’s what I was complaining about, the writer launching into a dissertation about how “the international elite are pushing for an uber right agenda of hypercapitalism on a global scale.”, but neglecting to mention the politically and ideologically hegemonic portion of the “international elite” whose “uber right agenda” they have successfully “pushed” to the point of involving their elite peers who favor a different agenda, plus the rest of us, in at least two illegal, immoral, and unprofitable collossal military mis-adventures.

  33. teafoe2 said on August 25th, 2010 at 7:32pm #

    DB this time you crack me up: Zero said, and I quote: “But that’s what you wanted, to shout down any voices you disagree with… mission accomplished.”

    and you came back:

    Shout down? Whose SHOUTING? :-)

    Make an argument. That’s what this board is all about. Hell Jeremy Hammond spent two weeks arguing in behalf of Chomsky. Get real! This is a discussion board. You have a keyboard. Type your thoughts. No one is stopping you.

    Sheesh.
    /////
    ROTFL hysterickly:-D

    case closed, going to bed:)

  34. Don Hawkins said on August 26th, 2010 at 4:01am #

    New from James Hansen and will we hear one word of this in the media will the so called leaders when back from holiday say one word about what really needs to be done to make a real try? Well no as in the age of nut’s where only the mad are sane what’s really on holiday is there minds. Get out the vote hurry get those electrons moving.

    http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2010/20100824_Activist.pdf

    However, fossil fuel addiction can be solved only when we recognize an economic law as certain as the law of gravity: as long as fossil fuels are the cheapest energy they will be used. Solution therefore requires a rising fee on oil, gas and coal – a carbon fee collected from fossil fuel companies at the domestic mine or port of entry. All funds collected should be distributed to the public on a per capita basis to allow lifestyle adjustments and spur clean energy innovations. As the fee rises, fossil fuels will be phased out, replaced by carbon-free energy and efficiency.
    A carbon fee is the only realistic path to global action. China and India will not accept caps, but they need a carbon fee to spur clean energy and avoid fossil fuel addiction.
    Governments today, instead, talk of “cap-and-trade-with-offsets”, a system rigged by big banks and fossil fuel interests. Cap-and-trade invites corruption. Worse, it is ineffectual, assuring continued fossil fuel addiction to the last drop and environmental catastrophe.

  35. Don Hawkins said on August 26th, 2010 at 4:23am #

    “Alpha children wear grey. They work much harder than we do, because they’re so frightfully clever. I’m awfully glad I’m a Beta, because I don’t work so hard. And then we are much better than the Gammas and Deltas. Gammas are stupid. They all wear green, and Delta children wear khaki. Oh no, I don’t want to play with Delta children. And Epsilons are still worse. They’re too stupid to be able to read or write. Besides they wear black, which is such a beastly color. I’m so glad I’m a Beta.”
    – Aldous Huxley

    Star dust

  36. observing said on August 26th, 2010 at 6:48am #

    teafoe,

    Once more with feeling. Your activity here (as well as others) is to focus almost exclusively on zionism as the root of all evil in the world. It ain’t, never has been, never will be.

    The root problem is people who abuse their power. in whatever form that power is manifest. You abuse yours here, by insisting zionism is the be-all and end-all to be discussed.

    You can ROTFL at me all you like, but in the larger scope, I am merely posting what a wider audience is thinking as they click away from DV never to return.

    Or maybe that is your real agenda, to essentially render impotent yet another access point to real “non-zion-babble-oriented” information. Wouldn’t be the first time.

    Which is the nerve I hit. You’re not here to listen, learn and add value to the social justice movement, you’re here to control the message from the backseat. If you’re so friggin’ smart, write an article for the rest of us to shred. Mind you, if it follows on from the obtuse, opportunistic and meandering logic of your comments, it will be indecipherable to all except yourself and the few who share your narrow and arcane world view.

    You may have a ton of “facts” and details at hand, but this is standard stock in trade of those who seek to mislead and confuse. As but one example, Fox News tosses out “facts” by the truckload, but does that make their world view correct?

    I work from a simple premise. Power corrupts. The poor, ill and young suffer the worst at the hands of those in power. The working class provides the labour and financial/tax revenues for those in power to carry on their abuse of all. The mainstream media and political systems exist/function to manufacture consent and obscure this agenda.

    Contrast this with your labyrinthine pronouncements of who is at fault in the Israel/Palestine issue and how this drives all other world affairs. And what about the rest of the world? Is China’s latest round of poor/worker abuse the direct result of zionism? Or the tragedies all around Africa’s resource areas, zionism again? Not likely. But how about the deliberate work of Bilderberg-esq greedy rich bastards? Say it ain’t so!!!

    So carry on pushing the zionist rope. Maybe in another decade or two you’ll realize what a dupe you’ve been.

  37. Hue Longer said on August 26th, 2010 at 8:49am #

    Hello observing,

    I wrote to the editors asking permission to cut and paste without sending links and they didn’t respond…I’ll assume then there is no problem with doing so.

    I cringe at the constant misuse of “straw man”, “non sequitur” and “ad hominem” as I do the monomanicalism of the crowd to whom you refer. They really do more damage than Mebosa could ever dream of doing, so who knows where they are really coming from?

    If it really is a religious fascination for them, religions are hard to treat but since I did manage to slow the bad ad hom a bit, maybe focusing on their shit thinking skills is the way to go?

  38. teafoe2 said on August 26th, 2010 at 10:02am #

    observing said on August 26th, 2010 at 6:48am #

    teafoe,

    Like most politicians and agents provocateur, you are an expert at simultaneously sucking and blowing.
    ////

    My first impulse upon reading the above was to complain to the editors about the posting of wild unfounded libels while turning DV into something resembling a toilet wall in a rundown bar.

    But on second thought, maybe it’s best that the sentence stay up where readers can see it, because it sheds light on where this particular troll is coming from.

    Let’s re-examine for a minute how this tempest in a teabag got started: Sean F’s article appeared, I read it, formed an opinion, and posted a fairly brief comment giving the writer credit for some good points but going on to note what I saw as the article’s major weakness.

    Whereupon this “Observing” posted a somewhat longer comment characterizing what myself, hayate and deadbeat had said as “bickering”, and going on to insinuate that anyone who disagreed with his views was “a liar or a fool”.

    To me this kind of language took things out of the realm of intelligent discussion. Since “Observing” saw no need to observe the norms of rational exchange of views, henceforth it appeared to me that do ignore his insulting language would amount to an expression of passivity.

    So in my next response, I was less concerned about niceties than with deconstructing Observing’s assertions.
    Alas, rereading them I see I left some unexamined: ” but even a cursory glance at the Dow Jones will find the the same arms dealers, military suppliers and oil corporate types filling their pockets…”.

    Sorry, Mr Ob, your glance at the Dow was apparently too cursory. A closer look would have revealed that the ones REALLY filling their pockets are those invested in the FIRE sector, Finance-Insurance-Real Estate. Yes , the DOD budget is incredibly inflated. But who are the owners of dividend-paying equities in these DOD-supplier firms? Who are the lenders who finance these firms, and collect interest forever?

    It was NOT the “oil corporate types” who received the bulk of the TARP and other financial sector bailouts, it was the Financial Sector.

    Yes, petroleum stocks and gas company profits are high — but to whom do these record profits acrue? All evidence suggests it is to interests described as “speculators”. Financial game-players, Wall St professional “traders” skilled in the ins & outs of complex markets and hi-tech execution of transactions. The present-day equivalents of Milliken and Boesky et al.

    Break time, I’m coming back: