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	<title>Comments on: What Will It Take to Break Our Trance?</title>
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	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: karibkween</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59331</link>
		<dc:creator>karibkween</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 18:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59331</guid>
		<description>As usual the ones who still enjoy some level of personal comfort respond to Mr. Page from a protectionist perspective. Our innate survival instinct which served us so well during our animalistic phase continues to prevent us from realizing our divine state. Liberty and personal choice has always come at a price. The whole notion of human freedom, or personal liberty is puerile, at best, since everyone is accountable to nature; which by extension means we are accountable to eachother; and, our poorly understood notion of personal choice somehow never extends to how we deal with the consequences of those choices. One would think that our information age would produce a more enlightened humanity, with a much more universal view and mindset, instead of the limited, self-centered views that have for too long dominated mankind and its resultant innovations; and its heartbreaking to accept, that has not been the case. In the end &#039;WE&#039; get exactly what we deserve, for there is no circumventing cause and effect; and a self-absorbed public will always produce self-centered leadership, with self-serving  ideas and policy, in our seemingly, never-ending demonstration of human incivility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As usual the ones who still enjoy some level of personal comfort respond to Mr. Page from a protectionist perspective. Our innate survival instinct which served us so well during our animalistic phase continues to prevent us from realizing our divine state. Liberty and personal choice has always come at a price. The whole notion of human freedom, or personal liberty is puerile, at best, since everyone is accountable to nature; which by extension means we are accountable to eachother; and, our poorly understood notion of personal choice somehow never extends to how we deal with the consequences of those choices. One would think that our information age would produce a more enlightened humanity, with a much more universal view and mindset, instead of the limited, self-centered views that have for too long dominated mankind and its resultant innovations; and its heartbreaking to accept, that has not been the case. In the end &#8216;WE&#8217; get exactly what we deserve, for there is no circumventing cause and effect; and a self-absorbed public will always produce self-centered leadership, with self-serving  ideas and policy, in our seemingly, never-ending demonstration of human incivility.</p>
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		<title>By: Foil</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59262</link>
		<dc:creator>Foil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:53:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59262</guid>
		<description>The foundation of this arguement is that personal greed is the source of all of the ills in the world, yet you are blind to your own greed.  I must agree with Obstreperous that we have succumbed to the siren song of free riding and entitlement, and the melody of that song is personal greed driven by jealousy of those who already have what we want or who we think are preventing us from getting what we deserve.  You crave utopian perfection, but that cannot exist in an imperfect world.  Nature is imperfect.  You are not perfect.  Rather than chase the elusive utopia, why not instead focus on yourself?  I will take liberty and personal choice over someone else&#039;s definition of perfection and fairness at my expense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The foundation of this arguement is that personal greed is the source of all of the ills in the world, yet you are blind to your own greed.  I must agree with Obstreperous that we have succumbed to the siren song of free riding and entitlement, and the melody of that song is personal greed driven by jealousy of those who already have what we want or who we think are preventing us from getting what we deserve.  You crave utopian perfection, but that cannot exist in an imperfect world.  Nature is imperfect.  You are not perfect.  Rather than chase the elusive utopia, why not instead focus on yourself?  I will take liberty and personal choice over someone else&#8217;s definition of perfection and fairness at my expense.</p>
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		<title>By: AM</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59175</link>
		<dc:creator>AM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59175</guid>
		<description>Well-written, however this work, as with other works by Mr. Page disturb me with his irreverent use of generalizations.  &#039;We&#039;, meant to imply &#039;us all&#039; is used so often that it defeats the impact of the article.  I certainly do not believe everything in which it is claimed that &#039;we&#039; believe.

Another example is evidenced by the statement:  &quot;The truth is that our capitalism and our self governing democracy are beyond repair or reform. Both are terminal, and dysfunctional.&quot;

Many industries do work.  Many government institutions do work.  Please allow for exception in these articles.  The only generalization that is always true is the exception in every rule.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well-written, however this work, as with other works by Mr. Page disturb me with his irreverent use of generalizations.  &#8216;We&#8217;, meant to imply &#8216;us all&#8217; is used so often that it defeats the impact of the article.  I certainly do not believe everything in which it is claimed that &#8216;we&#8217; believe.</p>
<p>Another example is evidenced by the statement:  &#8220;The truth is that our capitalism and our self governing democracy are beyond repair or reform. Both are terminal, and dysfunctional.&#8221;</p>
<p>Many industries do work.  Many government institutions do work.  Please allow for exception in these articles.  The only generalization that is always true is the exception in every rule.</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59171</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59171</guid>
		<description>Societal and  governmental structure,from which all evil-good on interpersonal level emanates, can be seen.
Layered society can be thus emended-amended so as to generate much less oppression  by higher layers of the lower.

More % of people in US approbate its classful society than any other people. It can be seen that  the greater gap in wealth btwn classes, results in greater participation of the highest class in ruling a country.

And that had always brought us enormous iniquities. And as long as US is ruled by its highest class to the degree that it is, we can expect it to do what every other high class had done over millennia: wars, slavery, torture, killings, imprisonment, oppression, etc.
Such a class does not stop from anything when it comes to defense of its interests. It is called, as we know, defense of US interests.
Even slavery alone proves that. We can also add to that 170 wars US had waged, nuking japan, use of other wmd, etc.
I suggest strongly that the top US layer of society wld wage at least 50 more wars; most likely use chemical, biolgical weapons as well in quest for riches.
tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Societal and  governmental structure,from which all evil-good on interpersonal level emanates, can be seen.<br />
Layered society can be thus emended-amended so as to generate much less oppression  by higher layers of the lower.</p>
<p>More % of people in US approbate its classful society than any other people. It can be seen that  the greater gap in wealth btwn classes, results in greater participation of the highest class in ruling a country.</p>
<p>And that had always brought us enormous iniquities. And as long as US is ruled by its highest class to the degree that it is, we can expect it to do what every other high class had done over millennia: wars, slavery, torture, killings, imprisonment, oppression, etc.<br />
Such a class does not stop from anything when it comes to defense of its interests. It is called, as we know, defense of US interests.<br />
Even slavery alone proves that. We can also add to that 170 wars US had waged, nuking japan, use of other wmd, etc.<br />
I suggest strongly that the top US layer of society wld wage at least 50 more wars; most likely use chemical, biolgical weapons as well in quest for riches.<br />
tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Bagg</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59152</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Bagg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 07:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59152</guid>
		<description>Mr. Page seems too pessimistic to me.  Our options might simplistically be viewed as revolt, reform, or wait to die.  Reform seems the most promising course to me; but reform supported by a public capable of revolt.  Actually, there&#039;s a continuum between reform and revolt.  An aroused public and a corrupt administration navigate this continuum jointly.  

Why doesn&#039;t a reform-minded Congress make campaign finance reform a top priority?  After all, one might think, once this was passed, the rich and their lackeys would lose much of their power over Congress.  The fault in this reasoning is that the rich still control the mass media and can thus fool the public into punishing Congresspeople who prioritize the common good ahead of private interests.

The top priority is really reform of the mass media, starting with a breakup of the monopolies and oligopolies therein.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Page seems too pessimistic to me.  Our options might simplistically be viewed as revolt, reform, or wait to die.  Reform seems the most promising course to me; but reform supported by a public capable of revolt.  Actually, there&#8217;s a continuum between reform and revolt.  An aroused public and a corrupt administration navigate this continuum jointly.  </p>
<p>Why doesn&#8217;t a reform-minded Congress make campaign finance reform a top priority?  After all, one might think, once this was passed, the rich and their lackeys would lose much of their power over Congress.  The fault in this reasoning is that the rich still control the mass media and can thus fool the public into punishing Congresspeople who prioritize the common good ahead of private interests.</p>
<p>The top priority is really reform of the mass media, starting with a breakup of the monopolies and oligopolies therein.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Phillips</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59132</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59132</guid>
		<description>Doug - great article - you raise a lot of interesting questions. I think you&#039;ll be encouraged about a way to change our society as described in the novel A Gladness In the Eyes by Grady Ross Daugherty. You can check it out at the above website. If you&#039;re interested, let&#039;s talk.


Suzanne Phillips, Editor</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug &#8211; great article &#8211; you raise a lot of interesting questions. I think you&#8217;ll be encouraged about a way to change our society as described in the novel A Gladness In the Eyes by Grady Ross Daugherty. You can check it out at the above website. If you&#8217;re interested, let&#8217;s talk.</p>
<p>Suzanne Phillips, Editor</p>
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		<title>By: kalidas</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59071</link>
		<dc:creator>kalidas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59071</guid>
		<description>In other words ... Lenin said: “The best way to control the opposition is to lead it. ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other words &#8230; Lenin said: “The best way to control the opposition is to lead it. &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59058</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59058</guid>
		<description>This idea that we are all brainwashed and, as such, mindlessly approve of the royal screwing over that we are taking from the ruling class is not at all reality.  

The American people hated G.W. Bush and the entire criminal agenda of the neocons.  They went to the polls and elected &quot;hope&quot; and &quot;change&quot; exactly because they aren&#039;t mindless, brainwashed sheep. But the ruling class was one step ahead. Obama is Bush. White Bush is out and black Bush is in. 

The crisis facing the underclass isn&#039;t that we are sleeping-walking through a brainwashed existence. The crisis is one of leadership. The underclass goes completely without any political representation.  The ruling class capitalists own and control both major political parties, the mainstream media and the labor union hierarchy.   The people only appear to be brainwashed due to this lack of leadership.  

We already knew the Republicans represented the interests of the wealthy-elite. But the entire Bush agenda would have been impossible without the complicity of the Democrats. The only reason that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez and a host of others aren&#039;t in prison today is due to their close friend and life-long associates, the Democrats. 

Is there any doubt that were Obama to have his yang attended to by an intern that the mainstream media would be  all over that story 24/7 for months? Yet the bankers loot the economy, destroy our jobs, award themselves trillions of dollars of our money, borrow billions more from us at less than 1%, subsequently raise credit card interest rates to near 30% and then gloat over their huge salaries and bonuses; and the mainstream media hardly gives such crimes a mention.

The union hierarchy long ago became the partners of the corporations. For decades now the function of the union hierarchy has been to sell out labor actions and inflict layoffs and concessions upon the workers they ostensibly represent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This idea that we are all brainwashed and, as such, mindlessly approve of the royal screwing over that we are taking from the ruling class is not at all reality.  </p>
<p>The American people hated G.W. Bush and the entire criminal agenda of the neocons.  They went to the polls and elected &#8220;hope&#8221; and &#8220;change&#8221; exactly because they aren&#8217;t mindless, brainwashed sheep. But the ruling class was one step ahead. Obama is Bush. White Bush is out and black Bush is in. </p>
<p>The crisis facing the underclass isn&#8217;t that we are sleeping-walking through a brainwashed existence. The crisis is one of leadership. The underclass goes completely without any political representation.  The ruling class capitalists own and control both major political parties, the mainstream media and the labor union hierarchy.   The people only appear to be brainwashed due to this lack of leadership.  </p>
<p>We already knew the Republicans represented the interests of the wealthy-elite. But the entire Bush agenda would have been impossible without the complicity of the Democrats. The only reason that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez and a host of others aren&#8217;t in prison today is due to their close friend and life-long associates, the Democrats. </p>
<p>Is there any doubt that were Obama to have his yang attended to by an intern that the mainstream media would be  all over that story 24/7 for months? Yet the bankers loot the economy, destroy our jobs, award themselves trillions of dollars of our money, borrow billions more from us at less than 1%, subsequently raise credit card interest rates to near 30% and then gloat over their huge salaries and bonuses; and the mainstream media hardly gives such crimes a mention.</p>
<p>The union hierarchy long ago became the partners of the corporations. For decades now the function of the union hierarchy has been to sell out labor actions and inflict layoffs and concessions upon the workers they ostensibly represent.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59054</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59054</guid>
		<description>http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/10/19/18626092.php

  I read a lot of stuff and this was very well written harder to do in the strangeness. Remember so far there is no plan just more of the same and that&#039;s called insanity.   One more time</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/10/19/18626092.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2009/10/19/18626092.php</a></p>
<p>  I read a lot of stuff and this was very well written harder to do in the strangeness. Remember so far there is no plan just more of the same and that&#8217;s called insanity.   One more time</p>
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		<title>By: Don Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59052</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59052</guid>
		<description>Obstreperous I saved your last comment now it&#039;s time to go to work. Calm at peace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obstreperous I saved your last comment now it&#8217;s time to go to work. Calm at peace</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59041</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59041</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Thank you. You make my point.&lt;/i&gt;

On the contrary. You made MY point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Thank you. You make my point.</i></p>
<p>On the contrary. You made MY point.</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59040</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59040</guid>
		<description>Doug Page writes ...

&lt;i&gt;We will have to accept a lower standard of living because of the depletion of oil and live like Cubans.&lt;/i&gt;

I understand what Mr. Page is saying but my disagreement is with semantics.  I would argue that living cooperatively would in fact RAISE our standard of living.  With improved transportation, affordable housing, accessible health care, child care, education, the end of usury, we would see a renaissance of creativity and improved living standards for the majority.

It is the high level of inequality that lowers that standard of living for all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug Page writes &#8230;</p>
<p><i>We will have to accept a lower standard of living because of the depletion of oil and live like Cubans.</i></p>
<p>I understand what Mr. Page is saying but my disagreement is with semantics.  I would argue that living cooperatively would in fact RAISE our standard of living.  With improved transportation, affordable housing, accessible health care, child care, education, the end of usury, we would see a renaissance of creativity and improved living standards for the majority.</p>
<p>It is the high level of inequality that lowers that standard of living for all.</p>
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		<title>By: Obstreperous</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59039</link>
		<dc:creator>Obstreperous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59039</guid>
		<description>Thank you.  You make my point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you.  You make my point.</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59037</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:09:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59037</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;We are voluntarily moving towards a Dark Age because we have succumbed to the siren song of free riding and entitlement. &lt;/i&gt;

Your analysis is just as juvenile as Max Shields.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>We are voluntarily moving towards a Dark Age because we have succumbed to the siren song of free riding and entitlement. </i></p>
<p>Your analysis is just as juvenile as Max Shields.</p>
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		<title>By: Obstreperous</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59036</link>
		<dc:creator>Obstreperous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59036</guid>
		<description>We are voluntarily moving towards a Dark Age because we have succumbed to the siren song of free riding and entitlement.  Liberty, opportunity, integrity and personal industriousness seem to be things of little value in our egocentric search for leisure, material goods and services.  We have chosen politicians who cater to that vanity and promise that fantasy world while demonizing and destroying the very mechanisms and individuals that provide the creativity and dynamism to improve the human condition.  Bad is good and good is bad.  As this site testfies, we cannot even speak clearly to one another...we use similar words, but they have such different meanings that different languages might as well be spoken.  People talk of Illuminati, puppetmasters, the rich, the power-crazed, but are any of these people really that intelligent, organized and capable.  One minute we see that the government cannot run an immunization program or a disaster relief effort, yet we credit them with diabolical efficiency with everything sinister.  Perhaps they&#039;re all just as incompetent, confused as everyone else and the inefficiency is just all the egocentric interests working at cross purposes.  Does it look dark?  I agree, but not for the reasons you give.  In fact, I think it results form the type of negativism and scapegoating presented in the article.  There&#039;s just too much hate out there and it doesn&#039;t look like it&#039;s going anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are voluntarily moving towards a Dark Age because we have succumbed to the siren song of free riding and entitlement.  Liberty, opportunity, integrity and personal industriousness seem to be things of little value in our egocentric search for leisure, material goods and services.  We have chosen politicians who cater to that vanity and promise that fantasy world while demonizing and destroying the very mechanisms and individuals that provide the creativity and dynamism to improve the human condition.  Bad is good and good is bad.  As this site testfies, we cannot even speak clearly to one another&#8230;we use similar words, but they have such different meanings that different languages might as well be spoken.  People talk of Illuminati, puppetmasters, the rich, the power-crazed, but are any of these people really that intelligent, organized and capable.  One minute we see that the government cannot run an immunization program or a disaster relief effort, yet we credit them with diabolical efficiency with everything sinister.  Perhaps they&#8217;re all just as incompetent, confused as everyone else and the inefficiency is just all the egocentric interests working at cross purposes.  Does it look dark?  I agree, but not for the reasons you give.  In fact, I think it results form the type of negativism and scapegoating presented in the article.  There&#8217;s just too much hate out there and it doesn&#8217;t look like it&#8217;s going anywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59011</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59011</guid>
		<description>I am starting a school and will take about six weeks. The floors in a new school something called VCT same stuff you see in Wal Mart. I need a break anyway last comment for awhile just the next few months oh man. I tried to give a crash course in climate change now we need answers. Some answers to late but still time if we act now. I&#039;ll be back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am starting a school and will take about six weeks. The floors in a new school something called VCT same stuff you see in Wal Mart. I need a break anyway last comment for awhile just the next few months oh man. I tried to give a crash course in climate change now we need answers. Some answers to late but still time if we act now. I&#8217;ll be back.</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-59000</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-59000</guid>
		<description>We cld also adduce an enlightenment by stating that everything that happens on a human level, whether in nepal, china, yemen, or US is systemic; i.e., of a system.
Even lack of a system or a jumble of contradictory/iniquitous laws may be systemic.
System od rule can be called structure or structure of governance. Gov&#039;ts; i.e., managements being a mere part of it.

Any in cold blood observer [icier the better] can see the naked components of the US sytem of rule. And not only that but also people who solely rule or rule much more than lower layers of society.

One does need no schooling nor to read any media to see what is happening. One eye or ear will solely do.  But most of us have two eyes and two ears. And we can see structure of atom, heart, hypertension, cancer, diabetes, governance, polio, etc.
Once we see all that we can at least attempt to change the structure. This how we have eradicated polio and some other diseases.
Poverty is also wrought by the system of rule and not just riches. Causative factor for poverty then being the system; which does not exist without people.
It is the people who set up the system. The people who set it up were slave owners, feudal lords, warlords and not just in US but in almost all lands and for millennia.

Wihout significant change in the system and with world getting daily poorer, poorer people and poorer countries can expect to become even more wartorn and poorer.
tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We cld also adduce an enlightenment by stating that everything that happens on a human level, whether in nepal, china, yemen, or US is systemic; i.e., of a system.<br />
Even lack of a system or a jumble of contradictory/iniquitous laws may be systemic.<br />
System od rule can be called structure or structure of governance. Gov&#8217;ts; i.e., managements being a mere part of it.</p>
<p>Any in cold blood observer [icier the better] can see the naked components of the US sytem of rule. And not only that but also people who solely rule or rule much more than lower layers of society.</p>
<p>One does need no schooling nor to read any media to see what is happening. One eye or ear will solely do.  But most of us have two eyes and two ears. And we can see structure of atom, heart, hypertension, cancer, diabetes, governance, polio, etc.<br />
Once we see all that we can at least attempt to change the structure. This how we have eradicated polio and some other diseases.<br />
Poverty is also wrought by the system of rule and not just riches. Causative factor for poverty then being the system; which does not exist without people.<br />
It is the people who set up the system. The people who set it up were slave owners, feudal lords, warlords and not just in US but in almost all lands and for millennia.</p>
<p>Wihout significant change in the system and with world getting daily poorer, poorer people and poorer countries can expect to become even more wartorn and poorer.<br />
tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Ray</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-58998</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-58998</guid>
		<description>I had rather fight the jungle than be a slave. and and slavery is the only outcome of where we are heading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had rather fight the jungle than be a slave. and and slavery is the only outcome of where we are heading.</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan M.</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-58989</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-58989</guid>
		<description>I will need to agree with &quot;Suthiano.&quot;  I just don&#039;t see the point of this messy and convoluted argument.  What exactly are you suggesting?

The vast majority of conservative capitalists are are indeed against the regulation of Wall Street.  This is because they have little to no interest in the day-to-day happenings on Wall Street.  The fact of the matter is that Wall Street brought the financial collapse upon themselves via naked short-selling and similar immoral business practices.

It should be noted that short-selling is actually a practice that should be disallowed by standard common sense, (you can&#039;t sell what you don&#039;t actually own - gasp!) but was actually made possible through legislation.  And it is (mostly) because of this practice that financial Armageddon is upon us.

People who invested in the market knew (or at least, should have known!) the risks involved in investing... And now their money is gone.  :-(

But that&#039;s how it works.....


So keep looking to your legislators to protect you from the &quot;Jungle.&quot;  I&#039;ll be stocking up on food and ammo ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will need to agree with &#8220;Suthiano.&#8221;  I just don&#8217;t see the point of this messy and convoluted argument.  What exactly are you suggesting?</p>
<p>The vast majority of conservative capitalists are are indeed against the regulation of Wall Street.  This is because they have little to no interest in the day-to-day happenings on Wall Street.  The fact of the matter is that Wall Street brought the financial collapse upon themselves via naked short-selling and similar immoral business practices.</p>
<p>It should be noted that short-selling is actually a practice that should be disallowed by standard common sense, (you can&#8217;t sell what you don&#8217;t actually own &#8211; gasp!) but was actually made possible through legislation.  And it is (mostly) because of this practice that financial Armageddon is upon us.</p>
<p>People who invested in the market knew (or at least, should have known!) the risks involved in investing&#8230; And now their money is gone.  :-(</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s how it works&#8230;..</p>
<p>So keep looking to your legislators to protect you from the &#8220;Jungle.&#8221;  I&#8217;ll be stocking up on food and ammo ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: dan e</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/what-will-it-take-to-break-our-trance/#comment-58988</link>
		<dc:creator>dan e</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11808#comment-58988</guid>
		<description>The 5K or whatever is the exact figure who control public discourse in the US/Canada/UK etc have no intention of eliminating &quot;government&quot;. What they intend and with Obama installed are busily carrying out is the elimination of the influence of the Working Class and the Poor over governmental decisions and functioning which came about when the very Free Enterprise (sic) system itself appeared even to many of said 5K to be failing, to have become dysfunctional. In addition to the Crash and the Depression, there was the nascent Soviet Union and the then-rampaging US Labor Movement led by admirers of Soviet accomplishments and apparent promise. 
Thus the more intelligent of the capitalist class, under FDR&#039;s leadership, chose to bend like the bamboo in order to foreclose any possibility of being uprooted like the oak. It was decided that many and far-reaching concessions had to be made to the Labor Force. 
It is only now, three quarters of a century later,  that is is becoming possible to revoke these concessions. 
With Obama in place it becomes possible to envision sweeping attacks on popular living standards and civil rights that Republicans could only dream of. Meanwhile, the Military and Security arms of the capitalist State, governmental and &quot;private contractors&quot;, continue to hypertrophy, as does the &quot;mainstream media&quot; and related means of conning you into cutting your own throat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The 5K or whatever is the exact figure who control public discourse in the US/Canada/UK etc have no intention of eliminating &#8220;government&#8221;. What they intend and with Obama installed are busily carrying out is the elimination of the influence of the Working Class and the Poor over governmental decisions and functioning which came about when the very Free Enterprise (sic) system itself appeared even to many of said 5K to be failing, to have become dysfunctional. In addition to the Crash and the Depression, there was the nascent Soviet Union and the then-rampaging US Labor Movement led by admirers of Soviet accomplishments and apparent promise.<br />
Thus the more intelligent of the capitalist class, under FDR&#8217;s leadership, chose to bend like the bamboo in order to foreclose any possibility of being uprooted like the oak. It was decided that many and far-reaching concessions had to be made to the Labor Force.<br />
It is only now, three quarters of a century later,  that is is becoming possible to revoke these concessions.<br />
With Obama in place it becomes possible to envision sweeping attacks on popular living standards and civil rights that Republicans could only dream of. Meanwhile, the Military and Security arms of the capitalist State, governmental and &#8220;private contractors&#8221;, continue to hypertrophy, as does the &#8220;mainstream media&#8221; and related means of conning you into cutting your own throat.</p>
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