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	<title>Comments on: An Ode to Light a Fire: In the House and Secretary of State</title>
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	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: B99</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/an-ode-to-light-a-fire-in-the-house-and-secretary-of-state/#comment-59111</link>
		<dc:creator>B99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11800#comment-59111</guid>
		<description>Well Kathleen, you&#039;ve said a lot but it seems you have several threads going in it that are not so clear to me.  

To be sure, political zionism was founded by secular assimilated western European Jews - not religious Jews, who for the most part wanted to immigrate to America - if at all.  The few religious Jews who wanted to live in Palestine did so - and were not demanding a Jewish state (by definition a secular demand).  

However,  I would not say that Zionism is a fringe movement among Jews. The overwhelming majority of Jews believe in Zionism to varying degrees.  Thus they range from those that are appalled at Israeli behavior and practice - to those who champion it.  (They all of course agree on the legitimacy of the state of Israel.) Jews are those who identify as such - they can be observant (that is, believers in Judaism) or not, in which case it is an ethnicity only.  Most Jews in Israel tend to the secular - religious observance is reserved largely for holidays and rites of passage.

While Palestinians are clearly the victims of Israel, I&#039;m not going to romanticize Islam by giving to much credence to the notion that Muslims won&#039;t attack &#039;people of the book.&#039;  That&#039;s asking too much of any people.

I enjoy the food of Christian holidays.  For me, its a shared cultural tradition, one no longer tied to the birth, death or resurrection of a messiah. The atheists I know, including myself, pretty much stay away from New Age religion.  Maybe there are some good philosophical points to the New Age stuff, but if one believes there was a conscious creator of the universe then one is likely not an atheist.

I&#039;m not sure what a flying spaghetti monster is - but you are correct that dropping bunker busters is immoral by any ethical accounting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Kathleen, you&#8217;ve said a lot but it seems you have several threads going in it that are not so clear to me.  </p>
<p>To be sure, political zionism was founded by secular assimilated western European Jews &#8211; not religious Jews, who for the most part wanted to immigrate to America &#8211; if at all.  The few religious Jews who wanted to live in Palestine did so &#8211; and were not demanding a Jewish state (by definition a secular demand).  </p>
<p>However,  I would not say that Zionism is a fringe movement among Jews. The overwhelming majority of Jews believe in Zionism to varying degrees.  Thus they range from those that are appalled at Israeli behavior and practice &#8211; to those who champion it.  (They all of course agree on the legitimacy of the state of Israel.) Jews are those who identify as such &#8211; they can be observant (that is, believers in Judaism) or not, in which case it is an ethnicity only.  Most Jews in Israel tend to the secular &#8211; religious observance is reserved largely for holidays and rites of passage.</p>
<p>While Palestinians are clearly the victims of Israel, I&#8217;m not going to romanticize Islam by giving to much credence to the notion that Muslims won&#8217;t attack &#8216;people of the book.&#8217;  That&#8217;s asking too much of any people.</p>
<p>I enjoy the food of Christian holidays.  For me, its a shared cultural tradition, one no longer tied to the birth, death or resurrection of a messiah. The atheists I know, including myself, pretty much stay away from New Age religion.  Maybe there are some good philosophical points to the New Age stuff, but if one believes there was a conscious creator of the universe then one is likely not an atheist.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what a flying spaghetti monster is &#8211; but you are correct that dropping bunker busters is immoral by any ethical accounting.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/an-ode-to-light-a-fire-in-the-house-and-secretary-of-state/#comment-59101</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11800#comment-59101</guid>
		<description>I am not trying to start a war here but in searching for the reason these people in the holy land even have a fight I have run across this snag, are religious &quot;Jews&quot; not supposed to have a state at all? 

I have studied the core text of Judaism and this appears to be forbidden and the reason why Jews have not by religion had a state.

Also a &quot;Jew&quot; and a &quot;Zionist Jew&quot; is NOT THE SAME THING! Zionism is a political movement dominated by fringe non-religious people who self identify as Jews, 

The Iranian presidents &quot;anti-semitic&quot; rants are all focused on &quot;Zionism&quot; Jews who live in Jerusalem who are not Zionists even experience oppression similar to the Palestinians. Muslims are bound not to attack Christians and Jews because their holy book says they are both &quot;people of the book&quot; and can only be attacked in self defense. 

I feel this is important because these insane people in Israel arent even legit in their own religion and they know it, they intentionally scream anti-semitic knowing that &quot;goy&#039;s&quot; arent going to notice that there is a difference between a Zionist and a Torah jew who believes in G-d. I am not Jewish or Muslim im somewhat of a flaky Christian. 

I am the most shocked that the Athiests instead of learning what people believe- holding them to it and enjoying the food holidays from all the people, they are just saying &quot;god doesnt exist and you are stupid&quot; 

It matters to me that these people arent following their own book- that must tell you that APPARENTLY they are using religions and well meaning religious people to drop bunker busters on their enemies which violates gods laws mans laws and burns and grounds the flying spaghetti monster. 

There is no left or right, there is only the dialectic process, drunk Muslims arent Muslims, jews eating bacon &amp; eggs aint jews, Christian men doing lines of coke off their boyfriends back aint Christians, atheists saying theres no god but who push new age earth religion aint atheists

We are being ripped off, our men and women will are dying for a LIE muslims are the enemy because they know the difference between a zionist [political con artist] and a Jew [guy who gets used as a punching bag and shield]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not trying to start a war here but in searching for the reason these people in the holy land even have a fight I have run across this snag, are religious &#8220;Jews&#8221; not supposed to have a state at all? </p>
<p>I have studied the core text of Judaism and this appears to be forbidden and the reason why Jews have not by religion had a state.</p>
<p>Also a &#8220;Jew&#8221; and a &#8220;Zionist Jew&#8221; is NOT THE SAME THING! Zionism is a political movement dominated by fringe non-religious people who self identify as Jews, </p>
<p>The Iranian presidents &#8220;anti-semitic&#8221; rants are all focused on &#8220;Zionism&#8221; Jews who live in Jerusalem who are not Zionists even experience oppression similar to the Palestinians. Muslims are bound not to attack Christians and Jews because their holy book says they are both &#8220;people of the book&#8221; and can only be attacked in self defense. </p>
<p>I feel this is important because these insane people in Israel arent even legit in their own religion and they know it, they intentionally scream anti-semitic knowing that &#8220;goy&#8217;s&#8221; arent going to notice that there is a difference between a Zionist and a Torah jew who believes in G-d. I am not Jewish or Muslim im somewhat of a flaky Christian. </p>
<p>I am the most shocked that the Athiests instead of learning what people believe- holding them to it and enjoying the food holidays from all the people, they are just saying &#8220;god doesnt exist and you are stupid&#8221; </p>
<p>It matters to me that these people arent following their own book- that must tell you that APPARENTLY they are using religions and well meaning religious people to drop bunker busters on their enemies which violates gods laws mans laws and burns and grounds the flying spaghetti monster. </p>
<p>There is no left or right, there is only the dialectic process, drunk Muslims arent Muslims, jews eating bacon &amp; eggs aint jews, Christian men doing lines of coke off their boyfriends back aint Christians, atheists saying theres no god but who push new age earth religion aint atheists</p>
<p>We are being ripped off, our men and women will are dying for a LIE muslims are the enemy because they know the difference between a zionist [political con artist] and a Jew [guy who gets used as a punching bag and shield]</p>
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		<title>By: eileen fleming</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/an-ode-to-light-a-fire-in-the-house-and-secretary-of-state/#comment-59027</link>
		<dc:creator>eileen fleming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11800#comment-59027</guid>
		<description>Yes and I know more about the illegal colony of Gilo and its closest &#039;neighbor&#039; Beit Jala:

It was at an Olive Trees Foundation for Peace meeting, that I met a Catholic woman who showed me a photo first published by the Florida Catholic in 2000; a photo that irrevocably changed my life.

Photographer Debbie Hill, captured three year old George [it is his photo that adorns the banner of my website] of Beit Jala, a once peaceful Christian village a five minute car ride from downtown Bethlehem, the morning after the Israeli army destroyed his sanctuary.

Israeli forces had retaliated against a few hopeless militants who had infiltrated George&#039;s neighborhood to snipe across the way into the illegal settlement/colony of Gilo, about a mile from the top of the hill not far from George&#039;s home.
 
The shrapnel that blew apart the wall of George&#039;s bedroom read &#039;Made in USA&#039; and was delivered via American made Apache helicopters.


The second I saw George&#039;s eyes, in that photo, my heart said &quot;DO SOMETHING!&quot;


What could I possibly do I wondered, but I did make a copy of the photo, put it in a frame and placed it upon the altar [a bar high table] in the upper room of my home. Dozens of times a day, I stop and gaze into the eyes of that little boy of Bethlehem and wonder what it will take to end the insane cycle of violence in the Holy Land; which is in pieces-bantustans.


When I met George for the first time in June 2005, I vowed to him that the rest of my life would be dedicated to doing all I could to help bring about the end of the occupation of Palestine.

Of course I had no clue as to what I would or could possibly do, or  how much of an &#039;impossible mission&#039; I had promised a little child of Bethlehem. But, every morning I wake up and wonder what I can do today in the pursuit of peace and justice; equal human rights for all, for that is the only way Israel will ever be secure.

A month after my first return home from occupied territory, I put up my website and became a civilian journalist; which is best understood as one who goes out of their comfort zone to report for the benefit of we the people, without orders or censorship from editors or paychecks from conglomerates.

The rest:

http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=892&amp;Itemid=200</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes and I know more about the illegal colony of Gilo and its closest &#8216;neighbor&#8217; Beit Jala:</p>
<p>It was at an Olive Trees Foundation for Peace meeting, that I met a Catholic woman who showed me a photo first published by the Florida Catholic in 2000; a photo that irrevocably changed my life.</p>
<p>Photographer Debbie Hill, captured three year old George [it is his photo that adorns the banner of my website] of Beit Jala, a once peaceful Christian village a five minute car ride from downtown Bethlehem, the morning after the Israeli army destroyed his sanctuary.</p>
<p>Israeli forces had retaliated against a few hopeless militants who had infiltrated George&#8217;s neighborhood to snipe across the way into the illegal settlement/colony of Gilo, about a mile from the top of the hill not far from George&#8217;s home.</p>
<p>The shrapnel that blew apart the wall of George&#8217;s bedroom read &#8216;Made in USA&#8217; and was delivered via American made Apache helicopters.</p>
<p>The second I saw George&#8217;s eyes, in that photo, my heart said &#8220;DO SOMETHING!&#8221;</p>
<p>What could I possibly do I wondered, but I did make a copy of the photo, put it in a frame and placed it upon the altar [a bar high table] in the upper room of my home. Dozens of times a day, I stop and gaze into the eyes of that little boy of Bethlehem and wonder what it will take to end the insane cycle of violence in the Holy Land; which is in pieces-bantustans.</p>
<p>When I met George for the first time in June 2005, I vowed to him that the rest of my life would be dedicated to doing all I could to help bring about the end of the occupation of Palestine.</p>
<p>Of course I had no clue as to what I would or could possibly do, or  how much of an &#8216;impossible mission&#8217; I had promised a little child of Bethlehem. But, every morning I wake up and wonder what I can do today in the pursuit of peace and justice; equal human rights for all, for that is the only way Israel will ever be secure.</p>
<p>A month after my first return home from occupied territory, I put up my website and became a civilian journalist; which is best understood as one who goes out of their comfort zone to report for the benefit of we the people, without orders or censorship from editors or paychecks from conglomerates.</p>
<p>The rest:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&#038;task=view&#038;id=892&#038;Itemid=200" rel="nofollow">http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&#038;task=view&#038;id=892&#038;Itemid=200</a></p>
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		<title>By: B99</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/11/an-ode-to-light-a-fire-in-the-house-and-secretary-of-state/#comment-59020</link>
		<dc:creator>B99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:50:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=11800#comment-59020</guid>
		<description>Note Hillary Clinton&#039;s use of the word &#039;neighborhood&#039; when referring to Gilo.  That&#039;s the Israeli term  - deliberately employed by Clinton (and often by the NY Times as well) to endear herself to her Israeli handlers.  Gilo is actually an illegal settlement.  It&#039;s proximity to Jerusalem does not in itself qualify it as a neighborhood.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note Hillary Clinton&#8217;s use of the word &#8216;neighborhood&#8217; when referring to Gilo.  That&#8217;s the Israeli term  &#8211; deliberately employed by Clinton (and often by the NY Times as well) to endear herself to her Israeli handlers.  Gilo is actually an illegal settlement.  It&#8217;s proximity to Jerusalem does not in itself qualify it as a neighborhood.</p>
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