please

i know what i am about and what i have been working toward. there is no need to prove it to you or anyone.

i will always recognize people who bring facts and have obviously conducted well rounded research of any subject.

enjoy yourself and your twisted compass.

missty (funny hee?!): Is b99 your gray eminency that you need to thank him every time? Not really self-confident. A bit like the Arab states which feel confortable only in the large circle of their majority.

Your sources are either anti-Zionist (that means anti-Israel) or Arab sources, not neutral nor objective. And as your sources, you (and your friends) have your agenda. So ask yourself if you are for peace or for something else.

Indeed, squaring the circle does not seem to be possible.

if you know anything about the birth of political Zionism you’d know that the “state of israel” was chosen between two lands (one of them a vacant land in Argentina). they sent rabbis to palestine at which the rabbis returned a message saying, “the bride is beautiful but she is married to another man.” she was INHABITED. and thus followed the enlisting of whatever major power of the day to enter and possess palestine… which actually started with the enlisting of the leaders of other Arab nations. rather than try to co-exist with the people of palestine. you said, “actually it is a long strip of violent acts indeed from the birth of Israel” well, the “state of israel” was born from rape. if someone marched into your home city with tanks and soldiers and said, hey, this is mine. wouldn’t you fight? your arguments are so lacking reality.

“If you are against Zionism, so you should know that you are against Israel as a whole, since Israel was born tanks to the Zionist movement which represents the desire and the struggle of the Jews to (re)build their nation in their ancestral homeland. So simple to understand, so difficult to accept.

In principle, I’m for the withdrawal of Israel from the West Bank, and I’m for a demilitarized, viable and responsible Palestinian state, build on the basis of a true lasting peace with Israel. I want to believe that a Arab state of Palestine will be able to live side by side with the Jewish state of Israel. Where there is the will there is also the road. ”

gaza is still under seige… children being shot collecting figs. http://www.dci-pal.org/english/display.cfm?DocId=1279&CategoryId=1
children are being imprisoned and tortured. over 300 children imprisoned in Sept. CHILDREN. when you imprison someone’s child, when you shoot them as they gather food… what do you expect? when any semblance of life, normalcy is disrupted day after day, when people are removed from their only source of income. when they are kept from medical aid. when internationals have to ride with pregnant women through checkpoints so they can get reasonable healthcare.

Palestinian refugees make up one quarter of the world’s refugees. And those are only the ones who utilize the UN refugee services.

I need to stop here.

I only hope, Dizzy, that you can open your eyes some day.

thank you, b99 for all your information and knowledge.

In principle, I’m for the withdrawal of Israel from the West Bank, and I’m for a demilitarized, viable and responsible Palestinian state, build on the basis of a true lasting peace with Israel. I want to believe that a Arab state of Palestine will be able to live side by side with the Jewish state of Israel. Where there is the will there is also the road. But no short cuts à la Bully99, please.

By the way: maybe I’m talking in circles, but maybe because your thinking is square.

So just continue shooting them – business as usual.

What happened was that Hamas and Israel agreed to a truce, Hamas kept to the truce- an unacceptable outcome for Israel – so Israel attacked Gaza (breaking the truce). When Hamas responded, Israel fully invaded – something in the Israel game-plan since it lost in Lebanon. Afterall, how can Israel keep the WB if it has peace partners? It’s an age-old Israeli custom – shoot the ‘moderates’, then point out the ‘extremists.’ Then re-load.

And you think we should be talking about Dhimmi-ism.

Not many Jews live in the Arab world because they made aliyah at Israel’s demand. Or for some countries, such as Jordan or Oman, they’ve never had a Jewish population to speak of. So it is hardly Apartheid. Jews participate fully in the Arab world subject only to the *hazing* that minority groups commonly receive in most any country in the world.

Israel did not so much ‘take care’ of Jewish refugees (except to give them stolen Palestinian land) as exploit them – to man the frontiers, pick the veggies, and collect the garbage. It’s illuminating to see how many Falashas are used at East Jerusalem checkpoints – all out of proportion to their actual numbers. That’s how the Ashcans treated the Mizrahi. Didn’t even see them as true Jews, they were suspect as Arab-Jews. Didn’t even want to live with them. Entirely separate communities and towns. You know the pecking order in Israel. German and American Jews at the top, Russian and other Slavic Jews down the totem pole, beneath them to varying degrees are Sephardics, Yemenis, and Central Asians. Below them are the Falasha (what’s the Hebrew term for nigger? Koosh maybe?). And finally, several levels of Arabs, the Druze being the only ones not considered the equivalent of India’s ‘untouchable.’

Arab states do not absorb all Palestinian refugees because that let’s Israel off the hook on its LEGAL obligation. Besides, Palestinians want their homes and land back – and the stolen goods too.

You cannot, of course, refer, with any ring of truth, to Israel as a democracy. Not while its laws favor Jews and while it runs the world’s last remaining Apartheid state.

i am not saying that there isn’t violence coming the other way. i have never relieved those palestinians who resort to violence of any accountability. but they are under an occupying power. and the Geneva Convention has laws that dictate how an occupying power is to conduct themselves. and those laws have been violated. repeatedly.

you cannot poke a stick at a caged animal and not expect it to bite. you cannot starve a people after ousting them from their homes and not expect someone to fight back.

and if you want to bring it to an issue of judaism… even then, they have violated their own book on how to treat the foreigners living in their land.

you ignore all the non-violent efforts of the palestinians to fight for their human rights and further peace. you ignore the fact that when hamas broke the ceasefire, those renegade rocketeers were arrested by the palestinian people.

i haven’t ignore the jewish and israeli people that recognize the oppression and the effects of that oppression and want peace. so the israeli people are divided as well. you find these divisions everywhere. you find religious fanaticism everywhere. palestinians and muslims are not the sole bearers of religious fanaticism. so don’t use that as an argument.

“the armed struggle is not expected to end when Israel will stop settlement activities”

you point your finger and say “bigotry” and “anti-jewish”… but you perpetuate fear based propaganda that is one sided and unilateral against arab and islamic peoples.

you talk in circles.

So when will stop the armed struggle, maybe only then…..

http://www.alhayat-j.com/details.php?opt=2&id=86758&cid=1493 ???

have you read the goldstone report? it does condemn hamas rockets. quit listening to propaganda.

you’ve got to be kidding me.

before you flip out with any more finger pointing, and anti-semitism rhetoric … go read accounts of israeli’s and members of the jewish community condemning these actions.

who is trying to “defeat” israel? you can’t “defeat” israel not with constant US backing by billions upon billions in loans and grants and military aid.

all that is being asked are that violations of international law be sanctioned. that a regime be held accountable. how on earth does that not serve peace?

chill out and let go of these knee jerk reactions and inform yourselves.

But who are the proposers of this witch hunt? States which have within their borders systematic and extended human rights violations, states which support and export terror abroad since years and decades, states which concentrate their efforts to create a climate of attack and forced pressure against Israel, in order to weaken it internationally by diverting in the same time the public attention from the fact that there are no signals on their side for serious effective progress in the peace process.

The Goldstone report is one-sided and unilateral: while it criticizes minutely every Israeli action and mesure in hundreds of sites, it deals with Hamas terror activities in a few dozen of sites. Also the conclusions appear clearly tendentiouos and unbalanced towards the condamnation of Israel.

This frantic activity against Israel doesn’t serve peace at all, it aims only to defeat Israel. It can not work in this way.

i’m getting a little tired of speaking out against israeli oppresion in the palestinian and occupied territories being named anti-semitic. i mean, that is what you are saying, correct? anti-Jewish? bigotry?

i cannot speak for anyone else of course. so perhaps i am jumping the gun and thinking you mean my comments. but you have addressed no one in particular. you also throw information out and haven’t given anyone any information save a comment to reference it. give me some info. i will welcome it and research it. i think the imbalance comes when people do not disseminate the necessary information.

rather than coming on here and making comments about bigotry and anti-semitism… inform people. find relevant articles and books etc. and put it out there. you will be heard.

not sure how being outraged at injustice is being virulently hateful. holding a government accountable for their perpetuation of violence and oppression is not hateful… it is necessary. i understand the US has it’s hand in the oppression of so many around the world. i do not hide from that. and i do my own part in attempt to hold my own government accountable for their actions and participation. as far as israel is concerned, i work with jewish and israeli organizations both and do what i can toward peace on all sides. heck, there are israeli businesses chomping at the bit to work with palestinian businesses and vice versa. on that alone there may be a groundwork for peace, for all… i hope.

if i dislike anything it is ignorance and complacency.

remaining silent and refusing to educate while allowing ignorance to allow violence to continue in any form is complicity.

what i meant to say in the beginning that i so inarticulately slaughtered… is that when i talk to people about palestine… people jump and say… well, what about guantanamo? well yeah, those or horrific. there is a sad and horrific reason that the rest of the world believes the US is the biggest threat to world peace (alongside Israel btw). i get upset and i want to tell people “i’m not talking about guantanamo. i am talking about palestine. when i talk about guantanamo we can discuss to your hearts’ content.”

it is early and i haven’t had my coffee. sorry for all the typos above as well. :P

my friend your numbers and your information is off. i suggest you review your history before you jump in a debate.

oh by the way…

http://www.alternativenews.org/akiva-orr/2134-israel-not-a-jewish-state-a-zionist-state.html

some good information in there… not many people know that Israel collected reparations from germany for the holocaust survivors yet no one received a red cent.

i’ve been organizing for peace and justice in the middle east… i work with several Jewish organizations who themselves are outraged at what is going on in palestine/israel. they denounce the genocidal agenda at work and do not jump into this band wagon of propaganda about palestinians being terrorists. these are people that have been to israel, have family in israel. one woman has been doing peace and justice work for over 30 years… she toured with isreali refusers (israeli soldiers that refused to serve in the occupied territories). and if you want to make her angry all you have to do is equate Zionism with Judaism. at that point she her eyes will light afire and she will adamantly correct you and tell you that “Zionism is an afront to Judaism.”

i have also worked with a gentleman, an israeli who documented the villagers of Bi’lin, where a man was killed in a peaceful protest this year.

how odd that you bring up hamas and in the same breath question the palestinian’s ability to exist in a democracy when hamas was voted in in one of the most democratic elections witness by US representatives. probably far more democratic than our own process here. you don’t have to like hamas. but it is who the palestinians chose. however of course at that point the US refused to have anything to do with hamas and continue to refuse. yet the US will deal with a regime that will buckle under US pressure and set aside the goldstone report (oh, btw… while you are making all these issues about arabs and jews… you do know goldstone is jewish?) which details israel’s war crimes, violations of international law, and “crimes against humanity.” in fact the US, sadly, has history of abusing it’s veto seat in the UN to veto any sanctions for israel’s vaiolations of the geneva convention.

anyway… as mark twain so aptly put it:
“it is better to keep your mouth close and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.”

inform yourself.