Comments on: On Rationalizing Israel’s Dispossession of the Palestinians

By: b99

b99 — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:56:00 +0000

deceschi – Inasmuch as all wars originated with Israel, it is up to Israel to show it can integrate its stll foreign body into the region in a peaceful manner. I think it is unrealistic to think that Israel will make it through this century if it fails to do so. You do understand of course, that the imposition of a European people and state into an already inhabited land is an unforgettable grievience, one that renders dismissable whatever grieviences the Jews have against those they expelled. Should we even ask if the Jews are capable of being something other than hostile towareds the gentiles of that region? Perhaps, we know already they are incapable of same. Those of us for justice and self-determination for all people have to find a way to pry our government from its blind and stupid support of this regime in Tel Aviv so that the UN can embark upon the business of tieghtening the noose around it.

By: deceschi

deceschi — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:03:07 +0000

B99 your “better question” is not good at all from Israeli perspective. And your proposals are unrealistic like your entire mindset, to say little. It’s up to the Palestinians and Arabs to explain and convince the counterpart that the future state will not be hostile to Israel. That is their share of work that nobody will take away. But they can’t even find unity among themselves let alone with their sacred enemy.

By: pat

pat — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:58:15 +0000

recognition. I would support earlier comments on the need for Israel that it needs to convince the Palestinians that it desires peace and recognizes the Palestinian state. Not only was it declared by the P.L.O. an organisation accepted by Israel as representing Palestinian views it was also accepted by the international community in the form of a U.N. RES. in line with RES. 181. Only 6 countries voted against it. Israel, U.S and its client states. Micronesia being one. So a Palestinian state actually exists. It would be interesting to hear from some of the pro- Israelis here why , When what they had been insisting on for decades-namely the recognition of Israel and- before the development of the Hamas to its position of major protaganist did Israel not grab the opportunity for peace with both hands.

By: pat

pat — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:45:44 +0000

67 war- Yes Israel did attack Egypt and Syria. Israel will claim it was a defensive war. However Jordan did attack fearing that once war began Israel would take the opportunity- as it did do- to snatch the West Bank. I was really making the point that to take Israel’s own view of self defence events have shown it does not need to control West Bank to prpotect itself, therefor there is another explanation- land grab.

By: Lance Watson

Lance Watson — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 19:31:54 +0000

http://eaazi.blogspot.com/
Joachim Martillo
PRECURSORS TO THE PROTOCOLS OF ZION
In understanding modern European and Jewish history, books like The Meaning of Hitler by Sebastian Haffner (Raimund Pretzel) sometimes provide a few insights. A book like Reading the Holocaust by Inga Clendinnen is also valuable not so much for what it says (basically drivel), but as evidence of the profundity of common misconceptions and ignorance about the Holocaust. One must also wonder why such a piece of garbage is taken seriously (Meditations on the Unthinkable by Daphne Merkin — Christopher Bollyn: The Zionist Gang That Bankrupted General Motors) when it is practically impossible to publish serious historical analysis relating late 19th and early 20th century Jewish political economics to the Holocaust.

We need a serious book that addresses the meaning of Jewish conspiracy theories or that explains how to read The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion or Waters Flowing Eastward, from which the article below is adapted. A book like A Rumor about the Jews: Antisemitism, Conspiracy, and the Protocols of Zion by Stephen Eric Bronner is just Jewish apologetics masquerading as serious analysis.

Since the 19th century Jewish conspiracies in crime, politics, government, business, finance, and academics have been common and have proliferated. Why do the fantasies receive so much attention when studying the reality can provide so many useful insights in so many important areas of inquiry?

The Protocols must have been sufficiently inadequate for Leslie Fry that she was inspired to investigate both Spanish Jewish history and the Zionist politics of the early 20th century in order to write Waters. Yet she uses the materials that she discovers to generate even greater fantasies, and her public seems to love it even though the reality is at least as interesting and more than enough cause for political mobilization against both the Jewish Bolshevik and the Jewish Zionist politics of her time period.

Jewish conspiracy theories are making a big comeback

* because the groveling of the Obama administration to its Zionist masters is becoming ever more obvious in the affairs of Chas Freeman, Van Jones and the Goldstone Report and
* because Zionists within the Obama administration have been quite shameless in their efforts to protect Zionists in the Bush administration from prosecution for numerous criminal violations on behalf of the Zionist imperial system.

In this environment, one would expect serious academic and political discussion of Jewish Zionist conspiracy. Yet all we hear and read is nonsense. One must suspect manipulation and contrivance

By: b99

b99 — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:57:30 +0000

Pat – You are totally correct that the Palestinian’s implicit recognition of Israel, then its explicit recognition in 1988, fell on willfully deaf ears. Said recognition was but a bump in the road for Israeli’s bent on inhaling the rest of Palestine. Indeed, the ‘spoils of war’ and ‘might makes right’ are the 19th century ideals Israel subscribes to, the only ‘democracy’ that continues to do so.

One caveat – Israel was not defending itself in ’67. Israel attacked Egypt and Syria in the pre-dawn hours. The Arab states were still hoping for a cessation of hostilities via the US and UN when Israel attacked.

By: b99

b99 — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:46:05 +0000

Deceschi – The better question is how can Israel assure the Palestinians that Israel wants a just peace given that the Jews took 78% of their country in 48/49 and the rest of it in 67 – which they still violently occupy and are still ethnically cleansing, and given that Israel reneged on its agreement with the UN to let the refugees back in. Given Israeli history, Jewish promises are fairly worthless. Thus the question can only be answered by a full Israeli withdrawal from the WB and Gaza. That means settlers, troops, tanks, aircraft, seacraft, and the ending of the no-man’s land and no man’s water zones. As you can see, it is incumbent upon Israel, the offending party, to reassure the Palestinians, not the reverse. The Palestinians are the Indians here, basically unarmed Indians who’ve been driven into the desert. The moral burden falls entirely on the regional superpower, Israel, to make some good come out of its history. Can Israel demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Palestinians that it is something other than a mad bomber of women, men and children – a usurper of land – and will not continue to use Palestine as an outlet for its rage against Germany and European gentiles through its use of the most advanced weaponry on the planet?

The world understands very well what Israel has done to the Palestinians. They vote on this every year – and but for two or three votes – and the addition of a Pacific microstate to round things out – the world decides over and over that Israel is the offending party. The burden is upon Israel to materially correct its behavior.

But Israel is unlikely to comply. Israelis still want a bigger Israel more than they want correct relations with their nieghbors.

By: bozh

bozh — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:30:28 +0000

jeff,
to me, and others, it is very important to call “collatteral damage”, “slaughter of innocents”, or a “refugee” [with connotation akin to a katrina refugee] “an expelee”.
Not so much for adults, but for kids. We’ve probably lost US adults even on the issue of basic rights such as right to be informed and not [deformed as so many can'ns and amers are] disinformed or robbed of their inheritance, such as healthcare or higher education.
And in ’67 all or most ‘refugees’ may have been expelled. I understand there was also an expulsion in ’82. Confirmation please. I am off to bed now! I’ll read responses tomorrow. tnx

By: bozh

bozh — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:14:57 +0000

shabnam,
please call them abettors of land robbers with the intent to expel and slaughter indigenous pop. Every kid {adult?!} wld understand that but possibly no kid wld understand what zionism is or what zionists are.
Even i cld care less to know what zionism is or zionists are. But i know what they do: murder and expel people. tnx

By: deceschi

deceschi — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 23:30:43 +0000

Jeff and Shabnam are two fellows lazy and self-righteous Israel-haters. It’s enough for them to find a friend of Israel on the path with a couple of disputable ideas to cry wolf and put the head in the sand. Folks, you are pretty bad off.

By: Annie Ladysmith

Annie Ladysmith — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:57:12 +0000

Taliban guy, eat your scarf. Your kind of abuse and hatred is not a joke, it is obscene. You are part of the problem.

By: Annie Ladysmith

Annie Ladysmith — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:53:53 +0000

It is possible to make a soup out of cabbage, the insects are extra protein and possibly add some taste. Cabbage is known to cause a lot of flatulence, like this blog. This is NOT a CIA coded message!

By: Shabnam

Shabnam — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:46:35 +0000

Jeff:

Thank you for your warning on rabid Zionists who come to this site to engaged people in dishonest discussion to change the image of Israel. Shortly before the Gaza genocide, this site was receiving many Israeli supporters to defend an apartheid state where kills and steals land of others to survive. I agree with you hundred percent. Unfortunately, there are small number of posters on this site who apparently have a lot of free time to chat with these Zionists back and forth trying to convince these Zionists of their criminal acts but they have not been successful since these people are not interested in the truth rather these Zionists are propagandists to fool others. These Zionist liars are paid to go to different sites including an Arab pro Zionist site which is financially supported by the Saudis royal family, AL ARABIYA, to attack people who tell the truth about Zionist criminal history. I have warned people to ignore these Zionists but all have fallen on deaf ears.

By: Don Hawkins

Don Hawkins — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:36:06 +0000

Israel is suffering the worst drought in its history, with below average rainfall during the last five years, and the Israel Union for Environmental defense warned in 2007 that if current trends continue, global climate change will result in Israel having many heat waves, a decrease in average rainfall of up to 30 percent, severe storms and a flooding of the coastal plain where most Israelis live due to a rising Mediterranean Sea.

And that’s best case scenario. Will it get better so far no.

By: deceschi

deceschi — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:35:16 +0000

“fuck israel, fuck amerika and long live the taliban.”
Well, joed, if this is the core of the anti-Zionistic culture, well, than I’m getting scared, really. Than I still prefer some pseudo-intellectual thought with fellow B99. But indeed, each to his taste …

By the way: B99 still didn’t aswer my simple question. Jeff’s ascendancy seems to work or maybe only a bit embarassed…?

By: B99

B99 — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:21:27 +0000

Jeff – I don’t mind answering despoty – I know the material through and through – dessicatey throws no curve balls, just the same pitches his own historians have long hit out of the ballpark.

By: pat

pat — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:19:46 +0000

Re settlements as a security measure. Israel managed to defend itself very well in 1967 without a single foot in the West bank prior to the war. Why does it need them for security now? Developments in military technology since then could see Israel defend its 1948 award from almost anywhere. To locate civilians on the borders of a percieved enemy/ies Jordan, Syria,would be very irresponsible if not down right criminal. Unless of course the objective is a continuation of ‘one acre -one goat’ approach. Protection would of course be needed but, not from outside powers but from the people whose land and homes are being taken. If as the previous poster states Israel does recognize Palestinian right to a state then , why did it not recognize the P.L.O. declaration of independence in 1988 when it recognized Israel and signalled its acceptance to form a state on the West Bank and Gaza and thereby ceding over 60% of mandated Palestine to Israel. It seems to me to more a case of ‘To the victor-the spoils’

By: joed

joed — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:16:29 +0000

you guys have no idea how rediculous you sound.
the main goal of the zionist pigs in these comments is to create confusion and chaos among those commenters that truly want to understand and sincerely want peace in this world.
my basic comment is;
don’t get in a pissin’ contest with a skunk–you can not win.
necon/zionist pigs have won because they don’t play around with honesty, sincerity or civility. thats what makes ‘em murderous pigs. and that is what makes you folks that want real discussion seem so pathetic and stupid. for thopse that want a real discussion the only way to get it is to ignore each and every comment that doesnt further the dialog. Another trick of the necon/zionist pigs is to demand definitions. because once something is defined it can be “deconstructed” and show to be meaningless or wrong or whatever the pigs want. that why they have won.
fuck israel, fuck amerika and long live the taliban.

By: Jeff Blankfort

Jeff Blankfort — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:10:36 +0000

It took Chomsky four messages to admit that he is against the right of return? That might be a positive sign although it is hard to pin the man down. Let’s see He against the Palestinian ROR. He’s against BDS. He’s against a single state because the Jews might (Yaweh forbid!)become a minority and he thinks the US,not Israel has been the primary obstacle to his beloved two-state disillusion, and he discounts the influence of the Zionist lobby/Jewish establishment over US policy towards Israel and the Palestine. If one did not know his name but just listed those positions to describe an unnamed individual, on what side of the barricades would you place him.

As for the terminology to describe the displaced Palestinians. Some were forcibly expelled and others fled but I don’t think the language is the problem at this point. Getting them to get the opportunity to go back there is and unfortunately that prospect is not on the horizon, nor for that matter is any meaningful change in the situation.

By: deceschi

deceschi — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:06:33 +0000

Yes, Jeff, ostracism is always the best way to get rid of disturbing thoughts, yes?