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	<title>Comments on: Drugs and Social Progress Since the Greeks</title>
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	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: ENKI-2</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-54466</link>
		<dc:creator>ENKI-2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 23:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-54466</guid>
		<description>The problem with this train of thought is that it assumes that the government is in a position to prohibit things. Government in general is in a position merely to provide punishments for those who may or may not have broken a given rule. Punishment is not the same as the absence of a choice.

That said, you make a good argument for why status:q sees it to be in their best interest to ban psychoactive substances. Monotheism and government are fundamentally the same phenomenon: the generation of a rigid central structure of authority that acts as a sink for responsibility. What I disagree with is the idea that the members of any given government have this reasoning; I would argue that it is not any given person in government who wants power (the power is not particularly useful, in government; a small business owner might have more social status and control with slightly fewer headaches and roughly equivalent lobbying benefits) -- it is the concept of government that seeks to stay in power. Psychoactive substances allow a greater level of introspection, and introspection is dangerous to memes that are essentially toxic, particularly ones that require the extermination of competing memes and their carriers (capitalism and communism, for instance, or most monotheistic religions; more or less any dogma that suggests that opposing ideas be silenced or that those who disagree be killed will fit this criteria, particularly given the essentially neophobic essence of these doctrines. Psychoactive substances are too direct and could easily be eliminated, but slow infection has proven to degrade the most authoritarian elements of most of these).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with this train of thought is that it assumes that the government is in a position to prohibit things. Government in general is in a position merely to provide punishments for those who may or may not have broken a given rule. Punishment is not the same as the absence of a choice.</p>
<p>That said, you make a good argument for why status:q sees it to be in their best interest to ban psychoactive substances. Monotheism and government are fundamentally the same phenomenon: the generation of a rigid central structure of authority that acts as a sink for responsibility. What I disagree with is the idea that the members of any given government have this reasoning; I would argue that it is not any given person in government who wants power (the power is not particularly useful, in government; a small business owner might have more social status and control with slightly fewer headaches and roughly equivalent lobbying benefits) &#8212; it is the concept of government that seeks to stay in power. Psychoactive substances allow a greater level of introspection, and introspection is dangerous to memes that are essentially toxic, particularly ones that require the extermination of competing memes and their carriers (capitalism and communism, for instance, or most monotheistic religions; more or less any dogma that suggests that opposing ideas be silenced or that those who disagree be killed will fit this criteria, particularly given the essentially neophobic essence of these doctrines. Psychoactive substances are too direct and could easily be eliminated, but slow infection has proven to degrade the most authoritarian elements of most of these).</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Cane</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53832</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Cane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Sep 2009 00:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53832</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;&gt;The only way to neutralize the imprisoning power of a labyrinth is to be able to see it from above.

And why is using a drug the only way to achieve that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;&gt;The only way to neutralize the imprisoning power of a labyrinth is to be able to see it from above.</p>
<p>And why is using a drug the only way to achieve that?</p>
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		<title>By: Mexomorph</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53808</link>
		<dc:creator>Mexomorph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 21:10:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53808</guid>
		<description>Compelling and interesting article, Christy; thank you for sharing your thought-provoking insight.  I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Bradley&#039;s experience as well - monotheism &amp; religion are both harder to swallow after opening your mind to the multiverse.. which is why those of us committed to entertain everyone else are usually imbibing to keep the mask of reason in place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Compelling and interesting article, Christy; thank you for sharing your thought-provoking insight.  I agree wholeheartedly with Mr Bradley&#8217;s experience as well &#8211; monotheism &amp; religion are both harder to swallow after opening your mind to the multiverse.. which is why those of us committed to entertain everyone else are usually imbibing to keep the mask of reason in place.</p>
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		<title>By: dp63</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53735</link>
		<dc:creator>dp63</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 18:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53735</guid>
		<description>Christy,

This article was written with an insight and eloquence that is rare to see on the web today.   Excellent article!  Ethenogens are a powerful and insightful tool for expanding awareness beyond our normal condition.  My use of mushrooms, LED and salvia, while rare and occasional, have given me a perspective on life and existence that simply is not attainable to those who have not tried them.  They are NOT for recreation, they are much too powerful and unpleasant for that purpose.  They open doors in your consciuosness that are much more than simple hallucinations or mind tricks.  In fact, I believe that our normal reality is the true illusion.

The fact is, government and religion, while initially founded in good faith, over time become institutions which succumb to one of man&#039;s worst attibutes... ambition.  The ambitious become enamored with the power of the institution, and that in turn attracts more like-minded, until an untameable beast is created.

A few snakes soon becomes a pit of them.  The pit becomes the Monster.

While I have no argument that the institutions of government, and especially that of religion (ESPECIALLY monotheistic relion) understand the nature of ethenogens and the threat they pose to their beloved bureacracy very well, it must be further realized that these organizations create other actions that cause our society great harm.  War, discrimination, and social inequalities are all results of the powerful and their power-hungry conciliators.  While ethenogens can help one reveal that, if one dares to look for the truth, they alone cannot turn evil into good.

We have much growing to do as a species.  As I age, I realize more and more that Man is a very child-like creature.  I&#039;m afraid our abilty to breed unchecked and our technological progress of destroying each other and our environment quickly outpaces our ability to gain wisdom.  With 7 billion people on the planet, we are at the brink of collapse.  From what?  Name it... nuclear war, bilogical war, global pandemic, climate change, mass starvation, economic collapse... we are facing threats that we enevitably come to fruition due to our igorance.

Maybe, if some small bands of us survive,  we can return to the way of life from which we ascended, as small tribes eeking out a meager, but sustainable living from the land.   Only them will we bee free from the prison we have built for ourselves called &quot;civilization&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christy,</p>
<p>This article was written with an insight and eloquence that is rare to see on the web today.   Excellent article!  Ethenogens are a powerful and insightful tool for expanding awareness beyond our normal condition.  My use of mushrooms, LED and salvia, while rare and occasional, have given me a perspective on life and existence that simply is not attainable to those who have not tried them.  They are NOT for recreation, they are much too powerful and unpleasant for that purpose.  They open doors in your consciuosness that are much more than simple hallucinations or mind tricks.  In fact, I believe that our normal reality is the true illusion.</p>
<p>The fact is, government and religion, while initially founded in good faith, over time become institutions which succumb to one of man&#8217;s worst attibutes&#8230; ambition.  The ambitious become enamored with the power of the institution, and that in turn attracts more like-minded, until an untameable beast is created.</p>
<p>A few snakes soon becomes a pit of them.  The pit becomes the Monster.</p>
<p>While I have no argument that the institutions of government, and especially that of religion (ESPECIALLY monotheistic relion) understand the nature of ethenogens and the threat they pose to their beloved bureacracy very well, it must be further realized that these organizations create other actions that cause our society great harm.  War, discrimination, and social inequalities are all results of the powerful and their power-hungry conciliators.  While ethenogens can help one reveal that, if one dares to look for the truth, they alone cannot turn evil into good.</p>
<p>We have much growing to do as a species.  As I age, I realize more and more that Man is a very child-like creature.  I&#8217;m afraid our abilty to breed unchecked and our technological progress of destroying each other and our environment quickly outpaces our ability to gain wisdom.  With 7 billion people on the planet, we are at the brink of collapse.  From what?  Name it&#8230; nuclear war, bilogical war, global pandemic, climate change, mass starvation, economic collapse&#8230; we are facing threats that we enevitably come to fruition due to our igorance.</p>
<p>Maybe, if some small bands of us survive,  we can return to the way of life from which we ascended, as small tribes eeking out a meager, but sustainable living from the land.   Only them will we bee free from the prison we have built for ourselves called &#8220;civilization&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Christy Rodgers</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53681</link>
		<dc:creator>Christy Rodgers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 03:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53681</guid>
		<description>Shelley: Both Hillman and Huston Smith cite Wasson&#039;s work, I believe. Hillman just doesn&#039;t seem particularly interested in the philosophical implications, at least in this book.

Obstrep:  I think you describe pretty accurately the situation we currently have. It&#039;s called the US health care system.

Keith: Whatever. When you can spell capitalism, then (maybe) I&#039;ll believe you actually understand how it works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shelley: Both Hillman and Huston Smith cite Wasson&#8217;s work, I believe. Hillman just doesn&#8217;t seem particularly interested in the philosophical implications, at least in this book.</p>
<p>Obstrep:  I think you describe pretty accurately the situation we currently have. It&#8217;s called the US health care system.</p>
<p>Keith: Whatever. When you can spell capitalism, then (maybe) I&#8217;ll believe you actually understand how it works.</p>
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		<title>By: Shelley C</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53676</link>
		<dc:creator>Shelley C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 02:57:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53676</guid>
		<description>Has neither Hillman or anyone else heard of the work of Gordon Wasson, who wrote pioneering works on the usage of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Greek and other early civilizations? His conclusions, especially about the visions and trance experiences which formed the root of many of their religious beliefs. I haven&#039;t read this book, but I am getting used to people coming up with ideas and not researching to see if they have ever been brought forward in seminal works written before they were born.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has neither Hillman or anyone else heard of the work of Gordon Wasson, who wrote pioneering works on the usage of hallucinogenic mushrooms in Greek and other early civilizations? His conclusions, especially about the visions and trance experiences which formed the root of many of their religious beliefs. I haven&#8217;t read this book, but I am getting used to people coming up with ideas and not researching to see if they have ever been brought forward in seminal works written before they were born.</p>
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		<title>By: keith anderson</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53646</link>
		<dc:creator>keith anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 19:55:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53646</guid>
		<description>You have a decidedly anti-capitalist train of thought, but if you think communism will be tolerant of psychoactive drugs,  just look at USSR and China.  Also, it was leftist progressives who foisted prohibition of alcohol on USA.  I am a cannabis enthusiast, and in my experience it&#039;s
a supply and demand capatilist enterprise.  And a highly effective one at that.  Legal or not, it&#039;s easy to find, and better product costs more.  That&#039;s competition in a marketplace.  Sounds like free enterprise to me.   I don&#039;t hear any hue and cry to &quot;eat the rich--- dope peddler&quot;.   If you&#039;re maintaining that entheogens provide insight,  may I suggest you&#039;ve ingested insufficient quantities?  Turn on.  Tune in.  Wise up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have a decidedly anti-capitalist train of thought, but if you think communism will be tolerant of psychoactive drugs,  just look at USSR and China.  Also, it was leftist progressives who foisted prohibition of alcohol on USA.  I am a cannabis enthusiast, and in my experience it&#8217;s<br />
a supply and demand capatilist enterprise.  And a highly effective one at that.  Legal or not, it&#8217;s easy to find, and better product costs more.  That&#8217;s competition in a marketplace.  Sounds like free enterprise to me.   I don&#8217;t hear any hue and cry to &#8220;eat the rich&#8212; dope peddler&#8221;.   If you&#8217;re maintaining that entheogens provide insight,  may I suggest you&#8217;ve ingested insufficient quantities?  Turn on.  Tune in.  Wise up!</p>
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		<title>By: Obstreperous</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53581</link>
		<dc:creator>Obstreperous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 04:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53581</guid>
		<description>The comments above are perhaps the best arguement for the current prohibitions.  Frankly I&#039;m surprised that the government hasn&#039;t endorsed the widespread use of everything from narcotics to stimulants to psychotomimetics in an attempt to further marginalize and dissociate the public from things that actually make a difference in their lives.  There&#039;s sports, but for those of us disinterested in spectator activities, drugs could help to control or disengage the rest of us.   Heck, it would even be something else to tax.  The increased accidental death rate would also save on health care costs since a raoid death at a younger age is cheaper than the chronic illnesses of old age.  Let&#039;s go for it!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comments above are perhaps the best arguement for the current prohibitions.  Frankly I&#8217;m surprised that the government hasn&#8217;t endorsed the widespread use of everything from narcotics to stimulants to psychotomimetics in an attempt to further marginalize and dissociate the public from things that actually make a difference in their lives.  There&#8217;s sports, but for those of us disinterested in spectator activities, drugs could help to control or disengage the rest of us.   Heck, it would even be something else to tax.  The increased accidental death rate would also save on health care costs since a raoid death at a younger age is cheaper than the chronic illnesses of old age.  Let&#8217;s go for it!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Igou</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53569</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Igou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 01:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53569</guid>
		<description>existence in place of existance if you please</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>existence in place of existance if you please</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Igou</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53567</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Igou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 01:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53567</guid>
		<description>The labyrinth from above is workable. It is my opinion that our military industrial power is supporting the production of massive amounts of narcotics through the world. The psychoactive enthogens is what is needed but what  is provided   is more sleepy and numbed downe,comfortably so. It is true that the NATO packs distrubuted to Georgian troups in the flare up , had meth and MDMA(to cope with the stress). Ethnogens can provide windows to our existance. To contemplate our existance is key to our souls journey here on terra firma. Spiritus mundi.  Dennis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The labyrinth from above is workable. It is my opinion that our military industrial power is supporting the production of massive amounts of narcotics through the world. The psychoactive enthogens is what is needed but what  is provided   is more sleepy and numbed downe,comfortably so. It is true that the NATO packs distrubuted to Georgian troups in the flare up , had meth and MDMA(to cope with the stress). Ethnogens can provide windows to our existance. To contemplate our existance is key to our souls journey here on terra firma. Spiritus mundi.  Dennis</p>
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		<title>By: mark w bradley</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53524</link>
		<dc:creator>mark w bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 16:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53524</guid>
		<description>An eloquent and illuminating argument.  I have always maintained that the &quot;mind altering&quot; and &quot;consciousness raising&quot; effects of psychoactive drugs such as LSD, mescaline, and psilocybin make them a potential threat to the social, religious, and political status quo.  My own extensive experiences with these substances in the late 1960&#039;s wrought a fundamental change in my perception of the world, and thus an unwillingness on my part to remain one of those who, in William Blake&#039;s words, &quot;has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro&#039; narrow chinks of his cavern.&quot;  During those transformative years, I learned to abhor the rigid march of certainty and embrase the fluid dance of paradox.  I shudder to contemplate the shallow pool of existence I might otherwise have been condemned to inhabit...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An eloquent and illuminating argument.  I have always maintained that the &#8220;mind altering&#8221; and &#8220;consciousness raising&#8221; effects of psychoactive drugs such as LSD, mescaline, and psilocybin make them a potential threat to the social, religious, and political status quo.  My own extensive experiences with these substances in the late 1960&#8242;s wrought a fundamental change in my perception of the world, and thus an unwillingness on my part to remain one of those who, in William Blake&#8217;s words, &#8220;has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro&#8217; narrow chinks of his cavern.&#8221;  During those transformative years, I learned to abhor the rigid march of certainty and embrase the fluid dance of paradox.  I shudder to contemplate the shallow pool of existence I might otherwise have been condemned to inhabit&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: undrgrndgirl</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53522</link>
		<dc:creator>undrgrndgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 15:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53522</guid>
		<description>it is rumored (by a credible source - one of his long time scientific partners) that francis crick  was under the influence of lsd when he first thought up the idea of the double helix in dna...and used small amounts of lsd to boost his powers of thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it is rumored (by a credible source &#8211; one of his long time scientific partners) that francis crick  was under the influence of lsd when he first thought up the idea of the double helix in dna&#8230;and used small amounts of lsd to boost his powers of thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Ntessier</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53504</link>
		<dc:creator>Ntessier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Sep 2009 09:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53504</guid>
		<description>Prohibition fails again and again no matter whats being prohibited.
There are no valid arguments that can support this failed policy and simply no excuses from our elected representatives that can justify the cost in ruined lives and dollars.
It&#039;s time to contact your representatives, from local city council to your representatives in congress and let them know in no uncertain terms,  Your Voters Demand the Repeal of Prohibition now !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prohibition fails again and again no matter whats being prohibited.<br />
There are no valid arguments that can support this failed policy and simply no excuses from our elected representatives that can justify the cost in ruined lives and dollars.<br />
It&#8217;s time to contact your representatives, from local city council to your representatives in congress and let them know in no uncertain terms,  Your Voters Demand the Repeal of Prohibition now !</p>
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		<title>By: b99</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/09/drugs-and-social-progress-since-the-greeks/#comment-53466</link>
		<dc:creator>b99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10217#comment-53466</guid>
		<description>I think the need for booze was the basis for the rise of agriculture 8 to 10 thousand years ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the need for booze was the basis for the rise of agriculture 8 to 10 thousand years ago.</p>
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