Consensual Sex During Wartime

Could it be that with the others? Could it be that all war was basically sexual?… A sort of sexual perversion? Or a complex of sexual perversions? That would make a funny thesis and God help the race.

— James Jones, The Thin Red Line

War provides a good fuck routinely. Bad ones too, of course. Very bad. And not just for those who sublimate with missile or bayonet envy (generating mental masturbation), or enjoy the actual wild abandonment with others which mortal engagement stimulates.

Yet, I wanted to come from another angle. And so I almost gave this piece the title (and attendant blah blah) you see directly below. The reason for settling on “Consensual Sex During Wartime” will become apparent once you reach my orgasm at the end of the article.

Fucking Over War Good (FOWG)

(FOWG is pronounced “fowdge” … with the last phoneme pronounced the same as the first and last sounds in judge. A new word, a new sound is called for.)

As a transitive verb, fucking can be used in the imperative as a signal of angry dismissal. It also has the denotation of cheating. Yes, I’d like to cheat War out of all sorts of things.

I wasn’t going to use curse words, for obvious reasons. One loses a lot of potential recruits right off the bat — whatever one’s cause — by employing such language. BUT… this war shit has gone much too far, and it’s slated to get worse daily, forever. In short, however, there’s no fucking word on earth, Hell or beyond that can come remotely close to the unnecessary abomination of War. And I’m going to put a fucking end to it on this planet.

Out of respect to the Berrigan Brothers and their low-profile colleagues, Chief Seattle, Paul Robeson, Ida Wells, Cindy and tons of my known and unknown heroes (and for other reasons, of course), I’m going to put to bed The Horror, and bring a smile to the faces of Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Jesus, and a helluva lot of common folk. Even with the cursing. For they all live closer to me when I turn in and rise — and throughout the day, every day — than my complacent neighbors, than much of my indifferent blood. And with or without the bad words they will toast me by the time I am… toast.

Yes, you heard right. I’m going to put an end to war on earth . I’ll be glad to say “we” when I come across someone else who’s willing to devote 24×8 heartbeats to the cause. Still — for sure — whatever my language… I’m not going to be doing this alone.

And WE’RE in a fucking rush ’cause — at best — I have maybe ten or twenty years. And without knowing you at all, I can tell you with great assurance that you don’t have much longer either… the way things are going… just in terms of militarization alone.

This FOWG should be considered a branch of TOSCA. Recruitment for TOSCA has been coming along, but not at the pace that’s required for creating a watershed event in history. The arthritic snail’s pace I refer to moved me to come up with a branch of TOSCA which would do something monumental even if TOSCA doesn’t fly. An offshoot which would potentially accomplish enough of the same thing.

The fact is, whatever one’s cause, putting an end to war … U.S. wars for starters … will definitely benefit EVERYONE. Everyone except a handful. And that’s only the negative case if one uses that handful’s selfish, socially psychopathic criteria as a yardstick. No, if you want the economy to improve for the 80% of U.S. citizens who hold only 7% of the country’s financial wealth. If you want to address the environment, you’d do well to pull the rug out from under what’s arguably the greatest single polluter on earth, the U.S. military. Ditto for dealing with industrial agriculture, health care, gender issues, racism and every thing else. If anyone has the slightest doubt about this, I respectfully request that you contact me immediately. I have definitive documentation. In short, you disentangle the Pentagon from our Economy to any degree whilst closing bases and pulling troops and mercenaries out of other people’s land, and you’re well on your way to a New World, without the “order” that works against us .

I was in the San Francisco office of attorney Matt Gonzalez (Nader’s most recent running mate) not too long ago, trying to sell the idea of TOSCA. One of the people present was a young intern from Vassar who questioned my phrase “taking over” … as in Taking Over the State of California. He suggested that it might turn off a lot of people. Of course, his concern is quite legitimate on a very superficial plane. The notion that one could gain access to power in California or anywhere by not “taking over” the reins betrays a dangerous innocence regarding the prevalence of electoral fraud … and much else.

“Taking over” is a phrase that’s begged for … to underscore … where power lies. To spotlight the need for radical measures, a new paradigm for gaining control of decision-making. Ditto for the curse words employed here. For to deny in public discourse what is routinely used in private dialogue is to weaken our cause on several levels, from a number of angles.

Repeated, unnecessary, multifaceted abominations of the worst kind — paid for by hypnotized citizens — MUST begin to be greeted with the foulest language imaginable. We are absolutely obliged to use the same language in public that we would use in private for such horror lest we contribute to smoothing over what is taking place.

It’s kind of the same principle behind asking alternative media outlet reporters to stop referring to President Obama as president… in the name of journalistic tradition, in the name of maintaining objectivity. No, advocacy journalism is now called for in the extreme, and no one with their head on straight or heart in a healthy place can possibly — regardless of what one does for a living, regardless of the setting — can any longer avoid using murderer in lieu of president.

Hence, the fucking murderer Obama.

I’ve got a neighbor whose son works for the military. Has for over a decade. And the young guy is in Communications. Now Papa — sweet soul that he is — didn’t have a clue that his boy might be pushing buttons for deadly drones in Afghanistan … or worse. I mention this because I’m very proud of myself for (tactfully) broaching the subject. And I deeply feel that everyone has an obligation to encourage such confrontations, if possible.

If we don’t do that (at the very least), we’re all fucked.

There’s a negative correlation between polite language and moving toward Peace. The more you respect the parameters set, linguistic or otherwise, the more you buy into WAR.

The roots of our incessant wars are NOT to be found in what’s loosely referred to as human nature. A beautiful essay by Howard Zinn in his Declarations of Independence puts that notion to bed, as far as I’m concerned… even though both he and I, and all well-read activists are very aware of the ongoing atrocities on this earth from as far back as what’s indicated in the following (quoted at the beginning of Cormac McCarthy’s Blood Meridian):

“Clark, who led last year’s expedition to the Afar region of northern Ethiopia, and UC Berkeley colleague Tim D. White, also said that a re-examination of a 300,000-year-old fossil skull found in the same region earlier shows evidence of having been scalped.”

Including that excerpt from the Yuma Daily Sun of June 13, 1982 here, I trust will demonstrate that I’m not ignorant about the history of violence on earth. However, I also trust that the reader can make the imaginative leap to entertain what’s possible on this earth, to reach deep down into her/his own immortal soul, and let the Face of Beauty shine through. Beauty being Possibility Born of Love.

No, the roots of our incessant wars lie — obviously — in World War I, where — in the dugouts and funk-holes — the great numbers of what were called Neverendians suffered immeasurably. And planted the seeds for all our subsequent/uninterrupted ferocity, East, West, North and South. Consider what was written about a pessimistic officer in the summer of 1917 who

“roughed out the area between the ‘front’ of that date and the Rhine,… and divided this by the area gained, on the average, at the Somme, Vimy and Messines. The result he multiplied by the time taken to prepare and fight those offensives, averaged again. The result he got was that, allowing for no setbacks, and providing the pace could be maintained, we should arrive at the Rhine in one hundred and eighty years.”

They… we… never will get to the Rhine — not what it stands for (the elimination of Auden’s “trespasser,” the removal of Fuller’s barbarian, independent-minded foreigners, whatever) — the way in which we’re proceeding… ’cause the powers that be have EVERYTHING (of ours) invested in perpetual warfare. It’s all a neverending chase now, or insatiable voyeuristic battle sex with drones and the like.

Some of the scenes of WWI battle — to this day — are the saddest places on earth. Right there in prosperous France! Take Albert, for instance. It’s been restored to its original ugliness, AND appearances of adequacy notwithstanding, it offers up an air which is — forgive the language — fucking unforgivable, unbreatheable. For everything that’s human has been defeated there permanently.

We are headed for that boneyard. We are slated to gas ourselves, and make life more unliveable than it already is. On schedule to become more rushed, more dour, more bitter, and to inflict the same on others with increasing cruelty. Imagine 9/11 — in the U.S. or Chile — with no one interested in cleaning up. That should convey what I’m trying to describe here.

What the Peace Movement needs is a good fucking.

That is, consensual sex.

Richard Oxman can be reached at tosca.2010@yahoo.com. Read other articles by Richard, or visit Richard's website.

66 comments on this article so far ...

Comments RSS feed

  1. bozhidar balkas vancouver said on September 5th, 2009 at 9:49am #

    richard,
    a good piece by you!
    A question for you: can any significant change for a better life of all americans happen as long as there are not two sets of interpreters of US constitution?
    Up to now judges appointed by plutos solely interpret the constitution of the US.
    Low[er] classes are not represented by their representatives to interpret the constitution. Any act against an alien people is declared constitutional by judges appointed by the war planners and wagers.

    And adding the fact to this that there is only one political party, House, and prez who’s never wrong, no matter even if he uses nukes or a-bombs against hiro and naga and we have the best gangster rule ever developed.
    tnx

  2. ned lud said on September 5th, 2009 at 12:07pm #

    This is the way I’ve been fucking talkin’ and what it’s done is get me booted, apparently permanently, from sites like CommonDreams.org. , hypocrites of polite speech and polite obedience that they are. I don’t bother with mainstream progressive sites any more, they’re a joke.

    You stand up to the politeness of ‘consensual sex’–(OUR progressive ideas, not yours) and you get shafted, ie., fucked. Only they don’t say: F U C K.

    Polite.

  3. Don Hawkins said on September 5th, 2009 at 2:19pm #

    The Senate here in the States cap and trade a joke on the human race then Copenhagen. Let’s see how that goes and so far it looks to go nowhere. Then I have a feeling we may just hear fuck you a little louder.

  4. Richard Oxman said on September 5th, 2009 at 3:21pm #

    To Balbas, Ned and Don, THANKS for commenting. To Balbas, I’m not totally sure what you’re asking, if you’re actually asking something. To Ned, please note that, as you know, Common Dreams — attempts to communicate ground zero passion — are destined to be spurned, stomped on… and worse, if they can manage it. BUT… you only get fucked if you lie down, or turn around… or lose such strength that you can’t fight off the would-be rapists. No, I think the fucker and the fuckee — to extrapolate using this horridly “off” imagery — are about to reverse roles, as per, in part, Don’s prediction. Love, Ox

  5. Richard Oxman said on September 5th, 2009 at 3:43pm #

    To “take over” the State of California as per http://oxtogrind.org/archive/364 would surely be a step in the right direction of having consensual sex (solidarity)… and “slipping it to” the powers that be. Seriously. Use your imagination. Then… come on board with us. Imagine the Guv of CA — put into office on a ZERO budget (having captured the attention and imagination of multitudes in doing so) –speaking out vigorously, creatively and repeatedly… on behalf of what you hold dear… in language (and with a visage) which matches the urgency demanded… starting APPROPRIATE trouble. The Guv, again, …if you glance at the site give above… will actually be TWELVE unaffiliated, non-politican citizens serving together — for the first time in history — in lieu of a single self-serving careerist gangster (once again). Ask for whatever “tweaking” you demand, but let’s take some steps together, and stop this exclusive blah blah. Oxhugs

  6. bozhidar balkas vancouver said on September 5th, 2009 at 3:57pm #

    richard oxman,
    since, as far as i know, al writs are interpretative and quran, bible, torah, talmud, constitutions especailly so, who or waht people interpret these scribbling is of paramount import.
    US constitution is interpreted solely by judges or plutos reprensentatives.
    The low[er] classes have zero participation in intepretation of any utterance contained in US constitution.

    Thus plutos and presidents cannot be wrong no matter what they do or don’t do.
    A prez can be impeached but only by the ruling class. Once again the low[er] classes do not decide by a referendum whether a prez or any US official is impeached. Am i clear now? tnx

  7. Richard Oxman said on September 5th, 2009 at 4:03pm #

    Maybe if your next entry is a simple interrogative, I’ll get your question. As it is, I understand the thrust of what you’re saying, but I don’t know what the Q is. Wanting to answer, Ox

  8. Don Hawkins said on September 6th, 2009 at 5:47am #

    UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon has seen the meltdown of the Arctic for himself. Alarmed at the changes, he warned that “our foot is stuck on the [climate change] accelerator and we are heading towards an abyss.”

    It might be easy to dismiss this as more alarmist hype except for the coincidental publication of a major Arctic climate study. This latest research makes it crystal clear that the forces of human-driven climate change have overwhelmed the natural forces that had put Arctic climate on a long-term cooling trend.

    Mr. Ban, who recently visited the Arctic, was addressing a 150-nation climate conference in Geneva on Sept. 3. The research, published the next day in Science, backs up his concern point by point. Led by Northern Arizona University (NAU) and the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) in Boulder, Colo., this five-year international study reconstructed 2,000 years of Arctic summer temperatures. Until now, the record extended back only 400 years. The research team combined data from lake sediments with previous data from ice cores and tree rings to build the longer record.

    Ban noted that “the Arctic is warming faster than anywhere else on Earth.” The study shows the Arctic is warming two to three times faster than anywhere else at a time when it should be cooling down. Natural changes in Earth’s orbit vary our distance from the Sun over a 21,000 year cycle. The closer we are, the warmer the Arctic and vice versa. Right now, we’re in the cool down part of that cycle. The study confirms a cooling trend over the past 2,000 years until it reversed about a century ago. The Arctic summer now is about 2.5 degrees warmer than it should be.

    In an announcement of this result, team member Nicholas McKay explained that, “The 20th century is the first century for which how much energy we’re getting from the Sun is no longer the most important thing governing the temperature of the Arctic.” His co-author, Caspar Ammann at NCAR, said, “This study provides a clear example of how increased greenhouse gases are now changing our climate.”

    Climate theory predicts that the Arctic should warm faster than elsewhere. Loss of reflective ice and snow cover lets the region absorb more solar heat. Mr. Ban emphasized this point in Geneva. The new study confirms this so-called “Arctic amplification” of global warming.

    Ban also noted that methane, a greenhouse gas 20 times more heat-trapping than CO2, is escaping from reservoirs in melting permafrost and from the sea bed. In a study of such emissions published Aug. 29 in the Journal of Geophysical Research, a research team by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, underscored this. It concluded “that we may be greatly underestimating the methane fluxes presently occurring in the ocean and from underground into Earth’s atmosphere.” If so, this could drive global warming even faster than anticipated.

    The Secretary General warned that, if you add this prospect to the Arctic warming signal, it looks like “we are certainly going to face a dire crisis, if not a catastrophe, across the world.” He worries about sea level rise, unprecidented regional droughts, and the like. While this may sound alarmist, it’s sobering to realize that ongoing climate research increasingly backs up such concern. CSM

    Even the Universe is giving us human’s a little break and yet we don’t try. “This study provides a clear example of how increased greenhouse gases are now changing our climate.” And in twenty years and that could be pushing it not just the climate but the human race goes into survival mode and that’s if we are lucky. Any plans being put into to place that you know of for any of this? California, Mid West first in the States any plans that you can see any even one? A catastrophe, across the world is happening and happening now and yet only more of the same that got us to this catastrophe and some just might call that insanity but with a little spin heck go shopping.

  9. bozhidar balkas vancouver said on September 6th, 2009 at 6:38am #

    hi richard,
    The question was/is, Can any significant change happen for a better life for all americans if the constitution is interpreted solely by the US ruling class?
    As i have said before, low[er] classes do not interpret laws nor constitution. tnx

  10. Don Hawkins said on September 6th, 2009 at 6:55am #

    We watch CNN or NBC and of course Fox News. The web is the best place to get information but still the truth is hard to find with all the noise. Many people in positions of power don’t seem to mind living in or on a ruined Earth but most of those people are old and to have and have more is there thinking. I guess the younger people that work for them just don’t get it. Maybe they think there is a special place where they get to go as the Human race fall’s apart and I guess they believe there own stuff. A ruined Earth is a ruined Earth. Granted many are not to bright and probably still don’t understand what’s already here and to come. It will be a few years yet before most people see it and then what just more spin listen to your leaders who are in control. Control of what? The congress comes back in two day’s and health care that is small potatoes compared to the climate bill and very sure we get to see stupidity on a grade scale. A few will keep trying but little they can do as go shopping is a powerful force here on Earth. I see Van Jones quit and Fox News will let’s just hope it doesn’t go to there head so to speak. Planet Earth what a place.

  11. Richard Oxman said on September 6th, 2009 at 7:24am #

    Thanks Balkas and Don. Of course the answer is NO, Balkas, the “elites” don’t give us a shot… if they are calling the shots. So the TOSCA thing is all about helping the public to self-educate… to take some control over their lives. I wrote a piece called “Mooning the Lunacy” http://oxtogrind.org/archive/374 which uses the whole Ban Ki-Moon legit rap as a point of departure for getting serious in a new way, IMMEDIATELY. It embraces a positive outlook about doing what we can, hoping that Ban is “off” by about 2 years with is prediction concerning COPENHAGEN. Which might… might… might give us a shot at addressing what Don delineates. Which is another aspect of the fight — arguably the biggest — that TOSCA aims to wage. Putting holes in the Pentagon so that it sinks… would give us a… chance; albeit, granted, a remote chance at surviving.

  12. United-Socialist-Front said on September 6th, 2009 at 8:46am #

    Hello Richard: Hello my friend, i think that the main goal of imperial-wars by USA, Israel, NATO, UK, and its allies (Germany, etc) is really money, money and money. The main goal of Imperial-Wars by the G-20 Imperialist exploiter countries is $$.

    .

  13. United-Socialist-Front said on September 6th, 2009 at 8:50am #

    Richard: Thanx for your participation in this news website. I have a question: What do you think about the ultra-right wing, libertarian conspiracy-theory news sites and movement in America? I mean what do you think about Jeff Rense, Alex Jones, Henry Makow, Webster Tarpley, the site What Really Happened, and the other libertarian conspiracy-theory news sites, and movement in America?

    I mean, don’t you think that one of the main causes of why the USA left today is weaker than the USA left of the 1970s is the rise of the ultra-right wing, libertarian conspiracy-theory wave after 9-11?

    Thanks and I would like your comments if these conspiracy-theory leaders are legitimate force of change which could unite with a United Socialist Front in USA? or if they are a threat to the whole USA left.

    Thanx

    .

  14. Richard Oxman said on September 6th, 2009 at 8:56am #

    Thanks for writing and for the kind words, USF. I’m truly sorry to say that I’m not familiar with those you cite. However, I believe it’s instructive for me to point out WHY I don’t think it’s wise for me to try to become familiar. WHY I don’t think you or anyone should spend heartbeats on such stuff. THERE ISN’T TIME! Look at the dire situation painted by Don in this Commentary as per the Ban Ki-Moon stuff. Hey, really, we want to avoid blah blah and more and more reading and more and more anything which falls short of action following a new paradigm. With all respect, I won’t try to answer your questions ’cause I want to encourage you to get on board with TOSCA… and to spend heartbeats on recruiting others for the same. See Mike Davis’ plea to get youngsters on board… devoting their lives to making a difference… immediately… at ZNet today in a piece titled something like “Why We Need Rebels.” In short, you have to be weary of talk and reading which falls short of DOING SOMETHING. oxhugs

  15. United-Socialist-Front said on September 6th, 2009 at 9:01am #

    THE USA GOVERNMENT MIGHT CONFISCATE THE GOLD OF AMERICAN CITIZENS

    Source: financialsense.com

    Today we live in a global market where U.S. citizens are able to move their funds overseas without restraint. In 1933 only the wealthiest of individuals could even contemplate moving funds out of the States. Now they can invest in any Stock Exchange or other Financial Market in the world, without being held back by the U.S. Government. The concept of restraining U.S. citizen’s foreign investments has not been on the page until now. Recently President Obama indicated that U.S. Corporations operating overseas would have to pay U.S. Tax on their overseas income. The days of reinvesting profits in Capital Expenditure before suffering U.S. Tax [payable on repatriated profits only] appear to be numbered. President Obama made it clear that his Administration sees a need for the U.S. to benefit directly from overseas investments annually. He further feels that U.S. citizens overall should benefit from these profits and not just the corporation and those it employs overseas.

    No doubt, the concept of U.S. Tax on overseas corporation profits will take a firmer hold irrespective of the benefits of keeping profits as capital for development overseas. President Obama is certainly of the opinion that U.S. owned overseas assets should directly benefit U.S. citizens at home, first!

    This lays the ground for Capital / Exchange Controls if the $ declines precipitously, or the U.S. financial empire worldwide, declines, as it seems set to do so.

    At worst, the U.S. will see what the U.K. saw, the splitting of the $ into two types, one for Trade transactions and the other for Capital movements [at a discount to the Trade $]. In the U.K. it was titled the “Dollar Premium”. Such a situation would see the U.S. $ in retreat in terms of other currencies too. The role of gold in adding to the credibility of the $ internationally at that point would be crucial. As the U.S. dollars returned home from $ surplus holders [such as China] there would be a dire need for local credibility to the currency to be enhanced. This could precipitate gold confiscation, again.

    As it is, even U.S. citizens living overseas have to declare to the U.S. Tax Authorities their worldwide income. Even where the individual U.S. citizens held all their assets overseas, we would expect the Administration of that day to attempt to coerce the repatriation of their gold home to the States. If these individuals had assets at home, these could be seized if they failed to comply with the repatriation and confiscation of their gold. Where U.S. based citizens held assets abroad they too could face home confiscation of assets if they did not repatriate their gold.

    As it is, through the I.R.S., foreign held assets are already reported by U.S. citizen’s world wide. Hence, the reporting and control mechanisms to attack non-governmental ownership of gold are fundamentally in place and can be extended without too much difficulty, to control all who wish to remain U.S. citizens. What price Patriotism?

    That is why the gold Exchange Traded Fund, The Ultimate Gold Fund has been designed to accommodate U.S. gold owners, holding their gold in Switzerland, to ensure that their gold cannot be confiscated!

    More to come next week – “For citizens of other

  16. United-Socialist-Front said on September 6th, 2009 at 9:09am #

    Richard: Thanks a lot for pointing me to TOSCA. I didn’t even know what TOSCA meant. I thought it was an Italian Opera, and then i searched on google. And now i just found out it meant: “Taking Over The State of California”

    Do you think that the secession of California would be the beginings of a socialist-revolution for the whole USA?

    Thanks and i would like your realist view of TOSCA? Do you think that it has a chance of succeeding?

    thanks

  17. Richard Oxman said on September 6th, 2009 at 11:43am #

    I’ve made entries which haven’t been posted yet. In response to the above comments. I trust that they will be entered. Oxhugs

  18. Richard Oxman said on September 6th, 2009 at 12:26pm #

    I’d appreciate the editors letting me know if I did something wrong… preventing my comments from being posted in response to the last couple of entries above. This is NOT meant as criticism. I’m guessing that for some reason there’s a tech glitch that’s interfering. Please advise. Oxhugs P.S. I saved both versions of my response to US-F, and can re-submit upon request.

  19. Don Hawkins said on September 6th, 2009 at 12:26pm #

    The new study nails it and I wondered how they would react. Check this out it is amazing to read this stupidity.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/09/making_it_up_in_global_warming.html

  20. rosemarie jackowski said on September 6th, 2009 at 12:37pm #

    Hi Richie and all…good comments on a good article. The TOSCA movement is fascinating – better than the Vermont movement toward secession. In the final analysis it all comes down to money. That’s why we are always at war. It’s not about oil or Isreal, though those contribute toward a war economy politically. Red herrings – 0il and Isreal.
    The US would fight a war over broccoli – and someday might just to keep the arms dealers wealthy. War is a lot of things, but first and foremost it is a massive money laundering system.

  21. Richard Oxman said on September 6th, 2009 at 12:46pm #

    Great to have a reunion, Rosemarie. Thanks for your contribution here. Yes, so much is about money. However, one of the appeals of TOSCA, one of the reasons that we will create a loyal following, supporters (without $) who will pay attention as we move along step to step is that we intend to do everything on a ZERO budget. That should get and hold attention before and after whatever we do, whatever results are achieved. A firm foundation should be created, should be possible with that as bedrock… as just about everyone can relate to how miraculous and desirable such a scenario/attempt is. THEY need money, THEY do everything for that AND the prerogatives of power, but TOSCA will encourage others to believe that they can do great things, make a difference without $$. BY THE WAY, TO USF & Don… if you send me your email contact at tosca.2010[atatatAT]yahoo.com, I’ll forward what the editors don’t seem to be posting here… in response to your entries. Oxhugs P.S. Ditto for anyone interested in what’s been omitted here.

  22. Max Shields said on September 6th, 2009 at 1:20pm #

    So, Obama is escalating the war in Afghanistan motivated by money laundering?

    Israel, oil, money laundering….

  23. Don Hawkins said on September 6th, 2009 at 1:46pm #

    The new study nails it 100% and I guess CNN and NBC and of course Fox are in shock because haven’t heard one word yet. They do have more important things to cover as the survival of the human race seems to be low on there radar. Truth Serum is on the way in large doses if you know where to look. Then again our screens could fade to black. Just in case CNN or Fox read DV here is a general idea on the study.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2009/sep/03/arctic-temperatures-climate-change

    Now just on the off chance CNN or Fox you do read DV if you look at that study the chart and those round things well that’s the Earth. BC stands for before Christ and AD stands for Anno Domini and if you don’t know what that means look it up. At Fox you could ask Glenn Beck the ruler of World’s or at CNN just what is it you stand for. We human’s are now in control of the climate well control is probably the wrong word.

  24. rosemarie jackowski said on September 6th, 2009 at 2:18pm #

    Max…about money laundering…the money comes from workers in the form of taxes and then is transferred to the weapons manufacturers and weapons dealers. Col. David Hackworth said it best when he said, “In war some people die, and some people get rich”. Simple.

    Seventy years ago Gen. Smedley Butler said the same thing in his “War is a Racket”.

    Wars will continue until we take the profit out of warfare.

  25. United-Socialist-Front said on September 6th, 2009 at 3:10pm #

    Rosemary, Richard Oxman and others: Indeed, the wars are not really about some ideological philosophy, religion or any doctrine. The wars are basically a business like any business in the world of supply and demands, of buying and selling, of benefits + costs. It’s just as simple as investing 5 x in these wars in the middle-east and getting out of it in total income 30 x.

    As simple as plain basic math.

    So Richard Oxman: coming back to TOSCA, i will send you my email, and i hope that the TOSCA project can succeed.

    .

  26. United-Socialist-Front said on September 6th, 2009 at 3:12pm #

    HERE IS A GREAT ARTICLE FOR YOU GUYS TO CHECK IT OUT:

    THE ANATOMY OF USA’S DUMBNESS AND IGNORANCE !!
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article23437.htm

    By Bill Noxid

    September 06, 2009 “Information Clearing House” — I wish I could say I was disappointed, but none of this is a surprise. While the President continues his efforts to reach some kind of farcical “bipartisan” agreement with people who continue to call and pray for his death, the people who actually risked their lives to get him elected are rapidly losing their patience – and so am I. In the brief six month or so since his election, this president hasn’t missed a single opportunity to sacrifice the desires of the electorate on the altar of the Corporation, and certainly this embarrassing healthcare reform debacle is yet another prime example. The demands of the people to see accountability for a decade of stolen elections, accountability for the home grown crime of 9-11, accountability for the destruction of privacy, accountability for the destruction of constitutional rights, accountability for torture, an end to the war crime in Iraq, an end to the war crime in Afghanistan, and a host of other malignancies in this country, have all been summarily dismissed by this president in the typical American manner of denial. Ten years of crimes against the people of this country and this planet, and this president has the audacity to suggest we “move on.” …

  27. United-Socialist-Front said on September 6th, 2009 at 3:13pm #

    HERE IS A GREAT ARTICLE FOR YOU GUYS TO CHECK IT OUT:

    THE ANATOMY OF USA’S DUMBNESS AND IGNORANCE !!

    informationclearinghouse.info

    By Bill Noxid

    September 06, 2009 “Information Clearing House” — I wish I could say I was disappointed, but none of this is a surprise. While the President continues his efforts to reach some kind of farcical “bipartisan” agreement with people who continue to call and pray for his death, the people who actually risked their lives to get him elected are rapidly losing their patience – and so am I. In the brief six month or so since his election, this president hasn’t missed a single opportunity to sacrifice the desires of the electorate on the altar of the Corporation, and certainly this embarrassing healthcare reform debacle is yet another prime example. The demands of the people to see accountability for a decade of stolen elections, accountability for the home grown crime of 9-11, accountability for the destruction of privacy, accountability for the destruction of constitutional rights, accountability for torture, an end to the war crime in Iraq, an end to the war crime in Afghanistan, and a host of other malignancies in this country, have all been summarily dismissed by this president in the typical American manner of denial. Ten years of crimes against the people of this country and this planet, and this president has the audacity to suggest we “move on.”

    “move on” is all this shameless country has ever done since its inception, and there’s no place left for it to “move on” to. Every minute of every day a new horrendous revelation about the mental illness this country functions on is revealed as the inhabitants of this country relentlessly lavish praise upon themselves for their own ignorance ( which they call “patriotism” ). Obama’s efforts to appease the criminal corporate powerbase ( and their easily manipulated mindless followers ) is a pointless and destructive endeavor that only allows the true enemies of society to remain hidden and in control.

    ‘I do not regard Barack Obama as “my president”. I regard him as the “Infidel in the White House”! With him unwilling to prove his legitimacy and systematic approach to dismantling “free enterprise” and “capitalism” in our society, I have compared him to a “black reincarnated Hitler”! With his SEIU thugs hired to intimidate, scorn, threaten and beat up peaceful protestors, he is the “Mafia Godfather”! With his initial requests for “fishy e-mails” which cited negative comments about his Health Scare Plan, he is acting like the “Gestapo Agent”! With the Democrats and Obama resorting to using the rare statute of “reconciliation”, they are acting like “Nazi dictators”! Never in my life would I have believed what a president could do to demoralize our great American nation! He deserves to be impeached for surrounding his inner circle with Communists, Marxists, vulgar Maoists, Lennens, Weather Underground individuals and those who believe in the principals of Mao Tse Tung! This is not a president, this is a vile, heinous leader hell bent on ruining our freedoms and right to free speech! I hope our Patriots holler loud enough to make a statement that he is not welcome in D.C.!’ [sic] – Anonymous Tea Party Blogger

    ‘He says he’s dropping the Public Option but all he want is a Plan to go through and then Put his Evil Plan into action he has no plan to give up control . He is a Hitler and he has no intention of going forward for communisim he’s past Scoialisim and if my kids were in school I would keep them home the day OBAMAs indoctrition of the kids and start brain washing them and if they made them watch it when they went back to school and sent a paper home how you can help your Pres I would go whoop the Teacher s#$% .there is a time to sit and look at this crazy mess but now they are trying to brainwash our kids and grandkids. Enough!!!!!!’ [sic] – Regina Groves

    ‘Now it is more important than ever to Keep the pressure on AGAINST ObamaCare. They are still pushing for legislation. Reach Your Senators and Rep Directly to let them know you are against ObamaCare IN ANY FORM.’ http://www.petition2congress.com/2/2066/stop-madness/ – Anonymous

    ‘I urge you to do whatever it takes – ditch the dish, downsize your home, trade the BMW – figure out a way to get your children out of government schools. If you want to home school then do it, otherwise get them into something that is inline with your values and out of the government brainwashing program. Forget that you’re paying for school twice – we have to address that later. Now is the time to get them out. Act now – don’t wait. Your children (and your grandchildren) and the country will be better off.’ – kfaulkner

    ‘My patriotic duty IS to keep my grand kids away from this communist bigot and his half wit wife and all his socialist soldiers!’ – Cybergeezer

    ‘We are headed down the lane of economic Marxism. More quickly, Sean, than anyone could have possibly imagined. It’s difficult for us to even keep up with it day to day. At this point the American people – it’s like Thomas Jefferson said, a revolution every now and then is a good thing. We are at the point, Sean, of revolution. [ snip ] This cannot pass. What we have to do today is make a covenant, to slit our wrists, be blood brothers on this thing. This will not pass. We will do whatever it takes to make sure this doesn’t pass. Something is way crazy out there, This is slavery, It’s nothing more than slavery.’ – Michelle Bachmann

    ‘Slavery? Yeah, that’s what obamafascist wants for the non black people of this country, and to take what we leave as we head off to prison camp as retribution for someone they never knew or weren’t even related to having been a slave once upon a time.’ – Spiritk9

    ‘Let me tell you something: I don’t love Barack Obama. I don’t respect Barack Obama. I don’t obey Barack Obama. And I’d like Barack Obama to melt like a snail tonight. [ snip ] This is what I’m going to pray, because this is the only prayer that applies to him: ‘Break his teeth, O God, in his mouth. You know, as a snail which melteth, let him pass away. [ snip ] He ought to be aborted. It ought to be, ‘Abort Obama.’ [ snip ] I’m going to pray that he dies and goes to hell. When I go to bed tonight, that’s what I’m going to pray. And you say, ‘Are you just saying that?’ No. When I go to bed tonight, Steven L. Anderson is going to pray for Barack Obama to die and go to hell.’ – Pastor Steven Anderson

    These are the people Obama continuously tries to “reach out” to, at the expense of the rest of us. If Obama himself wasn’t in denial and had educated himself on the nature of this country and it’s true history ( instead of the self-serving propaganda offered by the American educational system ), he would understand what motivates this unalterable hatred, and would recognize why these people will never accept him as President. The sudden and endless calls for a return the glory days of the founding fathers is itself a proclamation of that fact, and you don’t have to be a historian to understand that. Thomas Jefferson was a slave owner ( along with the rest of the “Founding fathers” ), and what was different about the “glory days” was that Obama would have been legally 3/5ths of a man, and would have been in chains. This is precisely the reality they long for and desperately wish to return to.

    This explains the outrage over something as simple as a presidential message to the children of this country at the commencement of the school year. The people that want their children to grow up knowing the same degree of hate that they do, are deathly afraid that if their children actual hear the President, they won’t consider him the monster that their parents do. During the eight years of Bush mangling every third word out of his mouth and the “No Child Left Behind” charade, I don’t recall a SINGLE call to pull children out of the government brainwashing program, yet somehow an eloquent and ( in my opinion ) entirely too passive president is suddenly the greatest threat to their children’s mental state since Hitler’s Nazi Youth program. This is because the last thing in the Universe these people want ( and their deepest fear ) is that their children will grown up in a world of diversity and equality and put an end to the hateful caste system in which they so fervently believe, and that has kept them in power for over two hundred years.

    The irony is that if this was a white president, I have no doubt that the same people that are demonizing him at every turn would be praising him to no end. Thus far this president hasn’t strayed one iota from the corporate model, and against all odds has somehow managed to re-bury the largest crime in the history of modern man. In fact, you can be sure that by the actions he has taken he is financing his own destruction. By siphoning 23 trillion dollars ( and counting ) from the people’s future to fill the void left by these criminals, he has managed to re-legitimize and re-empower the very people responsible for virtually every problem we face as a species. Had this president held the banks and financial institutions responsible for the creation and collapse of the global Ponzi scheme that used to be called an economy, the perpetrators would be jail and wouldn’t have the power or the resources to wage the disinformation campaign against him that has been running since the instant he announced his candidacy.

    I suspect this is his very last chance to get it, and prove to the people what side he is actually on. The fact that he was so willing to give up single-payer ( which the people still desperately want ), and is now poised to give up the watered-down public option is why his poll numbers continue to plummet. His continuous kowtowing and compromises with the forces that have no intentions other than keeping the people ignorant and enslaved has left the world of supporters he used to have disillusioned and disgusted. Every time he bends over, it the people that have to take it, and the fact that he continues to ignore the very real and blatantly obvious motivations for this intense hatred, leaves us no reason to believe in or support him. As I’ve stated on numerous occasions, this President’s propensity for what he calls “compromise” ( and the rest of us call surrender ) has already worn out his welcome with the REAL power base on this planet, and his continued failure to understand this will be his undoing.

  28. Richard Oxman said on September 6th, 2009 at 3:34pm #

    Thanks for writing, directly to me, Don. I’m glad that you’re going to do the same USF, since what I was talking about was an answer to your blah blah. And speaking of blah blah, with all due respect… truly… there’s entirely too much of that going on IN LIEU of taking some action. TOSCA won’t get off the ground unless your neighbor — not Obama or any of the other people you can’t stop complaining about — get on board. As you will note if you read the links provided at http://oxtogrind.org/archive/364 ONLY TEN MINUTES of time total is required… total… whether one lives in California or not. I’m slated to meet with SEIU people shortly, but whether they come on board or not… each and every person who gets wind of TOSCA can do something. If it means writing one less comment or one less article or giving one less lecture or attending one less meeting or… you get the idea, I’m sure. Whatever you’re doing… continue to do it. But unless you can point me to some other project that’s focused on bringing people across the nation together in solidarity for the purpose of making some significant, shocking change IN TIME… I don’t see how you can pass up joining hands with us in solidarity [which means contacting me directly] on a basis that’ll suit your purposes. One of the reasons I know how important TOSCA is… is the degree to which organizations I contact — inviting them to advance their agenda with us on a basis that’ll suit their purposes — do NOT even get back with a courtesy rejection. That kind of attitudinal set running throughout “progressive” organizations clearly paints their activity as doomed to produce only small change at best, too little too late. It is more of a litmus test than the increasingly weak showings at anti-war rallys. Oxhugs

  29. United-Socialist-Front said on September 6th, 2009 at 11:19pm #

    Richard Oxman: Sorry for answering so late. My email is moc.liamgnull@tsilaicostsixram

  30. ilene hanna said on September 7th, 2009 at 9:54am #

    Richard
    Thank you for stepping out of box and laying the truth out. I too am tired of being “polite” when it comes to the warring going on and have written to my reps in more and more colorful and strong words. I tell them, “We are passed being polite”!

    Anyways, I have been reading about Adam Smith and the Liberal Economics that sprouted in his name. Sadly, what he was advocating for, which had to do with individual”s natural tendencies that promote community and domestic interests, was high jacked and twisted into an ideology of unregulated markets….which are promoted as regulated but what is left out is that these markets are SELF regulating (by the invisible hand…which is another term that was high jacked and twisted into something other than its original intent).

    So there is alot of growing awareness these days that the real culprit behind these imperialist wars is rooted in the political and economic structure that was high jacked from such good intentioned men as Adam Smith. And now, we see the liberal economic system he wrote about, the separation of political and economics actually has been married up. Where the big fat cat Industrialists and the Politicians are working in tandem.

    But, even this, the marriage of State and Industry does not fully explain the CAUSE of the twisted evil that has resulted in the rape of the planet and the peoples therein.
    We have to look at the CENTRAL BANKING SYSTEM that became inevitable from such a twisted political/economic system.

    Here Andrew Gavin Marshal in his “Global Power and Global Government” series explains it quite nicely:

    “The central banking system has, from its inception, acted in ways which monopolize industry (thus negating Adam Smith’s concept of a “free market” and “competition”); militarize nations (financing wars and conquest, imperialism); merging the interests of both the economic and political realms into a holistic ruling class (modeled upon the dual nature of a central bank itself – holding the authority and power of a government body, but representing the interests and submitting to the ownership of private individuals). Thus, the ruling class itself is a social construct which this tiny elite formed, hardly capable of the numbers to be termed a class, especially since class is most often defined in national terms, whereas this elite is international in nature.
    The central bank of a nation finances monopoly industry and imperial states, both of which are created out of debt bondage to the central bank. Both the commercial/industrial elites and political elites merge their interests – the state will pursue imperial policies that have the effect of benefiting industry, while industry will support the building of a strong, powerful state (and provide a cozy job for the political elite upon leaving the public sector). This makes up the ruling class of a nation, the capitalists, or owners of the means of production, merging with the political rulers of the nation. One does not represent or overpower the other, but rather, both serve the interests and are owned through interest, by a tiny international elite. ”

    So, the very disturbed nature of the beast, in order to survive (as a parasite clings to host), has compromised not only our entire political/economic structure, but by its nature it became necessary to contain individualism, the individual as a natural and evolutionary force forward. This has resulted, the EFFECT, of reducing men and women to mere subordinated creatures to a system designed to not only serve the political/economic class but to adhere to the real rulers, whom have NO national or domestic interests….and whom, like Gavin points out, are people who cannot even be considered a class themselves because their numbers are so small. Subsequently, the education system had to be modeled on business plan of these parasites, to provide good obedient workers who would not be able to “think” for themselves, subjecting them to rule.

    Also, the way the whole system has been high jacked is through the credit/debt system. The Central Banking System not only has usurped the political and economic natural flow, it has also indebted EVERYONE, including nations, industry, and individuals.

    We now find our selves in this vacuum where we are all sucked into a void in which our debts have become our stamp of slavery.

    And how do we extricate ourselves from such a parasite? Currently, the parasite is packing its bags and moving on to greener pastures, and we should all pay close attention where the parasite will make its new headquarters. But this is the terrible reality of what such a parasitic system eventually wreaks on any given society. As long as parasite has ability to extract the wealth of nation they stay….and people put up with it because enough of them benefit. But now the beast is taking everything, draining the last bit of wealth. This is what this bail out is about.

    And I know this is long, but my point is, all these “wars” are direct cause of this parasitic central banking system, that feeds on ever more resources and the need of ever more. Dick Cheney said that these wars would be decades long. It is our rightful duty not to let these people get away any longer with there never-ending system of extraction that requires a feeding ground for bombs.

    This is why we all hold complicity to degree. We are all entrenched in this system. It will take more than just protesting and impolite words to destroy this beast. But we can have good communities again, free of this parasite if we only go back to local banking, local enterprise where families once again can design and create their OWN destinies free of debt bondage.

  31. Richard Oxman said on September 7th, 2009 at 11:33am #

    I want you, Ilene Hanna, to please contact me at TOSCA.2010 [ATatat]yahoo.com directly. I thank you deeply for your kind words, your full response.

  32. United-Socialist-Front said on September 7th, 2009 at 8:31pm #

    ILENE: YOU ARE WRONG. ADAM SMITH WAS NOT A POPULIST PHILOSOPHER, HE WAS A PRO-OLIGARCHY PHILOSOPHER, PRO-BUSINESS OWNERS CLASS, NO PRO-WORKERS LIKE MARX.

    HERE IS REAL INFORMATION ABOUT HOW CAPITALISM WAS INVENTED. ABOUT THE TRUTH OF CAPITALISM. CAPITALISM WAS REALLY AN IDEOLOGY INVENTED BY ADAM SMITH, DAVID RICARDO AND OTHER ECONOMISTS WITH THE GOAL OF INCREASING THE WEALTH OF A FEW OLIGARCHS AND FACTORY OWNERS USING WORKERS AS SLAVES.

    That’s why most americans are poor, in pain, suffering and enslaved, because USA has a capitalist system of pleasures for a few, and pain for the majority.

    So dont trust anti-marxist writters who claim that Marx, Lenin and Chavez are “dictators”. Remember that capitalists “freedom” means zero-government regulation so that business owners could make lots of money in a zero-government regulated system.

    The invention of Capitalism

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0822324911/critiquesofliber

    Review
    “This study is to be admired for its comprehensiveness, scope, and the amount of unearthing and excavation Perelman provides The indictment of political economists who addressed themselves to the matter of primitive accumulation is masterful.”–H. T. Wilson, York University

    Product Description
    The originators of classical political economy—Adam Smith, David Ricardo, James Steuart, and others—created a discourse that explained the logic, the origin, and, in many respects, the essential rightness of capitalism. But, in the great texts of that discourse, these writers downplayed a crucial requirement for capitalism’s creation: For it to succeed, peasants would have to abandon their self-sufficient lifestyle and go to work for wages in a factory. Why would they willingly do this?

    Clearly, they did not go willingly. As Michael Perelman shows, they were forced into the factories with the active support of the same economists who were making theoretical claims for capitalism as a self-correcting mechanism that thrived without needing government intervention. Directly contradicting the laissez-faire principles they claimed to espouse, these men advocated government policies that deprived the peasantry of the means for self-provision in order to coerce these small farmers into wage labor. To show how Adam Smith and the other classical economists appear to have deliberately obscured the nature of the control of labor and how policies attacking the economic independence of the rural peasantry were essentially conceived to foster primitive accumulation, Perelman examines diaries, letters, and the more practical writings of the classical economists. He argues that these private and practical writings reveal the real intentions and goals of classical political economy—to separate a rural peasantry from their access to land.

    This rereading of the history of classical political economy sheds important light on the rise of capitalism to its present state of world dominance. Historians of political economy and Marxist thought will find that this book broadens their understanding of how capitalism took hold in the industrial age.

    Book-review.
    By Dr. Regino Diaz-Robainas (Stuart, FL USA) – See all my reviews

    An impressive study of the significance of Primitive Accumulation in the development of the refined and reified slavery that we call Capitalism. Through Primitive Accumulation, in its pure, somewhat abstract “original sin” form, the ancestors of those who today control the wealth and power in the world robbed- by violence and brute coercion- the means of autonomous livelihood from the majority of peoples.

    It was the brutal process of “separating people from the means of providing for themselves” to turn them into instruments of production for profits, as in factories. This process evolved into more habitual and masked “market relations” to institutionalize and render more permanent the status of workers as wage quasi-slaves. In contrast to Adam Smith, Jeremy Bentham and other apologists and defenders of the system.

    Marx described this process with historical concreteness describing such historical events as the English Enclosure and Game laws. The conventional view has been that primitive accumulation was substituted by subtle and less exploitative reified market relations. But, as Perelman explains with resolute clarity,the two aspects of Capitalism are dialectically and continuously interlocked.

    After all, between Bentham’s struggle to subdue the poor into military work prisons with lives rigidly controlled in the service of the Masters’ profits- shades of Auschwitz- and Greenspan’s concerns (!) about the “wealth effect” reducing the willingness of workers with some minimal invested savings to get back to the “labor force” for “flexible” wages and the new regulator of “markets” concern for “unacceptably low levels of unemployment”- is there, really, that much difference ? The brutal process continues with such slogans as “buy when there’s blood in the streets”, and Michael Perelman has done a great service in describing it.

  33. United-Socialist-Front said on September 7th, 2009 at 8:36pm #

    SOME MORE UGLY TRUTHS ABOUT THE FOUNDATION AND INVENTION OF USA ALONG WITH ITS CAPITALIST SYSTEM.

    EMPIRE OF LIBERTY: THE STATECRAFT OF THOMAS JEFFERSON – Tucker, Robert W. and David C. Hendrickson. (1990).

    http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Liberty-Statecraft-Thomas-Jefferson/dp/0195074831

    Book-Review

    By Dustin Eric Buehler (Oregon, USA) – See all my reviews

    By examining United States foreign policy between 1783 and 1809 in their book “Empire of Liberty,” Robert W. Tucker and David C. Hendrickson put the myth of Thomas Jefferson under fire. Tucker and Hendrickson’s central thesis is that Jefferson’s statecraft wavered between two contradictory principles of liberty and empire. While president, Jefferson often found himself torn between pursuing a foreign policy role that provided examples of liberty, and a role as an “active crusader in international affairs” (Chaudhuri, American Political Science Review, September 1991). Tucker and Hendrickson claim that Jefferson tried in vain to accomplish both of these conflicting goals. The aim of his “new diplomacy” was to pursue the traditional ends of security and prestige while renouncing the traditional means of entangling alliances and wars that had been constantly used by European powers in the past (Mayer, Washington Post, August 2, 1990).

    Instead, Jefferson would rely upon what he called “peaceable coercion”–a foreign policy establishing security by commercial arrangements, through the force of American ideals. Jefferson believed that liberty and empire could go hand in hand in the formation of United States foreign policy.
    Tucker and Hendrickson analyze several policies during the Jefferson administration to give historiographical context to their argument. The 1803 Louisiana Purchase is mentioned as a case in point. On the surface, the acquisition of almost half a continent at a negligible price was a great triumph of statecraft.

    Jefferson believed that this incredible land acquisition “preserved the republican character of the Union by removing the presence of dangerous neighbors and the prospect of wars that must result in the imposition of unbearable burdens on society” (Dallek, New York Times, July 1, 1990). It also insured that a predominantly agricultural political economy would be sustained while the United States experienced a steady increase in population. The Louisiana Purchase appeared to be clearly within the interests of the United States.
    However, Tucker and Hendrickson point out that in order to make this purchase, Jefferson abandoned several of his sacred principles of liberty. In acquiring Louisiana, Jefferson abandoned his deeply held commitment to strict construction of the Constitution, which did not specifically mention a power to acquire territory (Dallek 1990). Tucker and Hendrickson question this abandonment of principle in light of the circumstances revolving around the purchase. They point out that Napoleon would most likely have not repudiated the agreement if action had been delayed, and that the speedy ratification of the treaty that Jefferson advocated was not necessary (Cunningham, Journal of the Early Republic, September 1991). Like Henry Adams, whose history of Jefferson’s administration the authors admire and frequently draw upon, Tucker and Hendrickson emphasize the president’s abandonment of strict construction in regard to the Louisiana Purchase as evidence of his desire to establish an empire.

    This book has many notable strengths. Tucker and Hendrickson advance their ideas with a portrayal of Jefferson’s statecraft that is very comprehensive. Most of the main foreign policy circumstances and events of the Jefferson era are described in detail–in addition to the Louisiana Purchase and policies regarding Native Americans, the authors provide comprehensive analysis on the maritime crisis with Great Britain, and Jefferson’s views on Napoleon. Tucker and Hendrickson give a freshness to historical subjects of the Jeffersonian era that have already been mulled over by countless historians.
    Along with its strengths, a couple weaknesses exist in “Empire of Liberty.” Occasionally the authors press their points too hard. Although Jefferson somewhat abandoned his embrace of free trade in 1807, Tucker and Hendrickson exaggerate his original devotion to the principle. Additionally, labeling him as a “true believer in strict constructionism” until the Louisiana Purchase ignores his acceptance of Hamiltonian policies from the inception of his administration (Kaplan, Journal of American History, June 1991). Tucker and Hendrickson’s critique of Jefferson’s foreign policy is perhaps somewhat overbearing.

    Regardless of any shortcomings Tucker and Hendrickson’s analysis may have, they do an exceptional job of making a definite contribution to Jeffersonian literature. They create a picture of Jefferson somewhat different than the image conveyed by such historians as Gilbert Chinard, Merrill Peterson and Dumas Malone. “Empire of Liberty” tends to lean more towards to so-called “darker side” of Jefferson represented by the work of Leonard Levy. Overall, by provoking thoughts on Jeffersonian foreign policy, Tucker and Hendrickson’s work contributes monumentally to the discourse on the life of Thomas Jefferson.

    i think that it is safe to state that USA was founded by fascist bourgeoise capitalist, business-men (Jefferson, Washington, Benjamin Franklin) and they had a goal of creating an oligarchic-republic with some little crumbles, checks and balances for the masses. They did not intent to create a real people’s democracy for the people by the people in favor of the people, but a sort of type of humanized oligarchic capitalist plutocracy where the wealthy bourgeoise elites would be checked out and controlled by the US Constitution, but still they didn’t create a real humanist democratic republic, just an oligarchic republic like USA has been all the time.

    But i don’t think that we can blame the US liberators, because you have to apply historical-materialism and evolution and in the 1700s the socialist equality ideas where not so developed as today.

    So I think that Jefferson, Lincoln, Madison etc, were not evil like today’s leaders like Clinton, Bush and Cheney.

    hahaha sorry to compare the dirty drug-smugglers of Clinton, Cheney and Bush with US founding fathers. it is a disrespect to their honor and dignity to compare US founders with mafia-thugs like Clinton, Bush and Obama.

    .

  34. Richard Oxman said on September 7th, 2009 at 8:59pm #

    So… the question remains, USF…. What are you going to do about it? There is something to do, as I’ve delineated. One of the dangers of writing is that it’s an easy trap to fall into… writing in lieu of other kinds of action. I have been lucky enough to test the waters again at DV, but I did expect it to be more promising… in terms of being able to rouse more souls to action… other than writing, socializing. This is very serious, what you touch upon USF. And I trust that you and others will be moved to take other steps, down new roads. Obviously, as Chomsky always reminds us, in this country we can still — relatively easily — do things that will make a difference. Loving best, Ox

  35. Deadbeat said on September 7th, 2009 at 10:57pm #

    Obviously, as Chomsky always reminds us, in this country we can still — relatively easily — do things that will make a difference. Loving best, Ox

    It is worrisome to see Oxman citing Chomsky regarding action. As we’ve been discussing the anti-war movement fizzled into obscurity when the elephant of Zionism was raised. With the current crop of signatories on TOSCA my concern is whether you’ll see a similar level of betrayal.

    I also think that the strategy of the mobilization won’t reach the poor since many of them do not have access to computers since this will essentially be a “virtual” mobilization. It appears to be that the most efffective approach has to be the old wearing of shoe leather in the neighborhoods. If there are any neighborhoods left after the displacement of unemployment and foreclosures.

    I guess I essentially disagree with Oxman. I don’t think any action makes sense. I think strategic action is what you want otherwise you waste precious resources and goodwill. I cite the Green Party and New Party as good examples of action that lead to abject failure and in many ways worsen the situation.

    I also think this virtual (seemingly invisible) approach won’t scare the ruling class nor arouse the public. If we learm form our past it was a highly visible DIOBEDIANCE that forced the ruling class to make concession.

    As Frederick Douglas says … Power conceeds nothing without a demand And TOSCA doesn’t seem to call for any sacifice nor any real demand.

  36. Richard Oxman said on September 8th, 2009 at 6:51am #

    If Deadbeat had read any of the links provided here regarding TOSCA (especially the DVoice link which has Mickey Z interviewing me about TOSCA), it would be very clear THAT THIS IS NOT A VIRTUAL EFFORT. That, in fact, it is almost exclusively a one-on-one, bonding in person effort. This is the ONLY comment I should make at this juncture in response to DEADBEAT’S comment as anything else will distract from the most major point I have to make right now, which is that READERS ARE NOT READING THE MATERIAL PROVIDED. Which is understandable (and quite common) when people want to “act” at the opposite end of the spectrum from Noam Chomsky… who is all about action. Best, Ox

  37. United-Socialist-Front said on September 8th, 2009 at 7:06am #

    Richard: Thanks for your words. I don’t like generalizing, because i am not God and i don’t know the behaviour patterns of the 300 million people that live in the USA. However from polls, statistics, we can tell the political-behaviour of people in a society. What i mean is that you are one of the few people in USA who is worried, awake, aware, alert, non-conformist, and who hates the present system, and eager to destroy current-values to create new value system. I mean you are one of the few active-nihilists of this country. Just like Utah Philips and George Carlin (Active nihilists).

    Most people in America are passive-nihilists, they are just waiting for a slowly sinking of the USA like Titanic, without trying to prevent its sinking.

    Only a few in America are awake, worried, angry, and not conformist about the way USA is right now.

    But the problem with most communities in United States is that people live such a hectic, busy, hyperactive lifestyle, almost like programmed robots. That its real hard to talk to people in this country.

    You see americans are too rigid, too rigorous, inflexible, unchangeable, adamant, unyielding, too stiff, not flexible at all with their own personal activities. And above all too quiet, too shy, too social-phobic. And in an environment like this it’s real hard to spread the ideology of socialism to people, to remind people that USA is collapsing if Democrats and Republicans continue in power. And that’s the main problem of spreading a new ideology in the USA.

    .
    .

  38. Richard Oxman said on September 8th, 2009 at 7:41am #

    Too many people — here and elsewhere — are stating the obvious. Please get beyond that. Some people, like Deadbeat, — many people — don’t even take the time to check out fundamentals provided they’re so eager to get to stating the obvious. The nihilism has zero to do with TOSCA. And nihilism has zero to do with nurturing anyone or anything out there. Quietists might find health somehow… but, then, perhaps all would be better if they did their dance in their little corner… and stopped taking up heartbeats here. With regard to Deadbeat’s comment… I am compelled to add that to miss the point that TOSCA is about low profiling everything, making a point of avoiding mainstream media outlets for the very purpose of wanting to employ that all-important element in war –SURPRISE — is to miss “too much” to justify dialogue. Without doing the minimal “homework” (checking out the links leisurely)… there’s no discussion to be had. So, please, extend that respect, that courtesy… and stay out of this mix if you don’t want to make the time to read the blah blah basics. For USF, I would only add at this juncture that you’re not addressing the main question I asked you. To cop out with arguments based on “nihilism” is to — it seems to me — make an “excuse” for inaction. It’s safe and lazy and full of itself and full of a lack of compassion. I submit that if readers can put aside what’s comfy and habitual… they might find a nurturing outlet in some aspect of TOSCA. And, if not, perhaps a contribution can be made to coming up — in collaboration — on something that will resonate for one and all. It doesn’t matter what the profile of “America” is. Not when you’re after The Impossible. What’s called “real” makes life not worth living. I want a future for Marcel http://www.marcelsgeo.blogspot.com. Watch the video that’s provided at the bottom of the right-hand-profile column there. Best, Ox

  39. Deadbeat said on September 8th, 2009 at 6:49pm #

    Richard, I read the Mickey Z interview and here was my response to that interview that I wrote on DV…

    We’re still in the process of trying to recruit Mike Davis, Paul Hawken, Michael Albert and Arundhati Roy… and everyone else! Noam Chomsky hasn’t come on board yet, but we haven’t given up on anyone, and even people like Noam — who for very legitimate reasons want to take “a little more time” to consider all aspects of what we’ve put on the table before adopting a public stance

    Why is the recruitment of Chomsky and Michael Albert — such ABB’ers so important to this organization. When both gentlemen had a chance to speak out against the current political trends they sought to go along with the “safe state” strategy. Why are such “headliners” so important? The best thing that this chap should do is recruit committed folks at the local level and form an ideology that best expresses the organization’s desires, goals, hopes, and demands. Forget about the headliners. “Headliners” will emerge from the bottom and from their activities and from their successes. To see the discussion revolve around “headlines” and DUBIOUS and specious ones at that only tells me that this organization does not have the focus it needs and will eventually collapse like the Greens which will once again retard solidarity.

  40. Deadbeat said on September 8th, 2009 at 7:14pm #

    Look Richard don’t get me wrong I wish you success with your “well intentioned” effort but I just don’t see any call for sacifice among your associates. And siting Noam Chomsky’s an exemplar of action is extremely dubious when Mr. Chomsky himself has been “inactive” or missing in action with any boycott of Israel and any confrontation of Zionism in the U.S.

    Be that as it may, you “email” chat with Mickey Z seems like a LEAP of faith rather that activist will just fall behind a write in candidate. You are not calling for disobedience but for obeying the existing electorial structures looking for loophole in the system. It is a crapshoot whether you’ll effect change in this way.

    Let’s take a look at history Richard. Black in the U.S. would not have brought down Jim Crow racism via the ballot box because doing so was illegal for them. They had to resort to EXTRAJUDICIAL actions. I don’t see any plans for any disobidence in conjection with your electorial stategy.

    If the Green Party who are very well organized in Califorinia could not break through I severely doubt that a loose confederation will succeed where the Green Party failed.

    Also in your chat with Mickey Z the only specific issue that you discuss, cause everything else was abstact, was the environment. Unfortunately Richard you may be at an income level where you have the luxury to worry about the environment but many more people are worried about employment, housing, debt relief, and foreclosure.

    I think a better plan would be to debt disobeience. Now that’s REAL sacifice and to come up with a plan to protect citizen engaging in real disobidence. I know people who are facing immenent foreclosure and informing them how to challenge the banks. That’s useful and that’s TANGIABLE and that’s how you build trust and solidarity.

    Going back to your plan Richard, if I was a member of the ruling class what I would do to thwart your little project is to place other “write-in” provocateurs to co-opt your message on the ballot in order to confuse the public. I hope you have a plan for that.

    DB

  41. lichen said on September 8th, 2009 at 7:45pm #

    Actually, it is the lowest income people who are most heavily impacted by the environment; who will be the first to suffer most severely if/when the worst consequences of global warming come about. So environmentalism is campaigning for the benefit of them.

    People like deadbeat do absolutely nothing except make negative critiques on people who actually do things, and he hates the left, but makes reactionary statements like those above, against environmentalism and gay rights.

  42. Richard Oxman said on September 8th, 2009 at 9:17pm #

    Dear Deadbeat: You read Mickey’s chat w me, but you didn’t read the links provided. Let me respond first to your excerpt of your response to the interview. I answered you already, I believe (either directly or at DV), but let’s assume that I didn’t. Simply, TOSCA is not about headliners. You culled out one paragraph which addressed my effort to recruit name people. Obviously, names hold the potential to recruit others. If I hadn’t secured Zinn’s imprimatur, I might not have secured Giroux’s imprimatur… which would probably left me without Peter McLaren. A name is not a name. The latter two led me to openings in everything from SEIU to local high schoolers to national Hispanic organizations and so on. Now to move on. No Green Party or any marginalized party could possibly make inroads. That’s addressed in my links. Just as no civil disobedience can do so sufficiently as things presently stand. That also is sketched out in the links. Those points, anyway, are obvious to everyone at this point who is trying to organize anything new. And out of that obviousness TOSCA was born. It does NOT play into the electoral arena traps as you suggest. It — as per the links — goes about recruitment in quite a different manner than any of the traditional marginalized parties… eschewing the online approach, eschewing all the failed approaches of the past, and puts eggs in the basket of Bonding with Friends and Building on That. First things first. I am in the process of recruiting core members who will be capable of recruiting others within their personal circle… and so on… no meetings… no pamphlets… no blah blah… just work w very personal contacts… and seeing where things go from there. The typical approach of ALL parties is always get as many people on board ASAP however you can or need to do so. That attitudinal set is at the opposite end of the spectrum from TOSCA’s approach. People don’t take Step Two with us until they really see what’s at stake. With that approach one builds committed souls whose EFFECT (in the end) will not be contingent upon any electoral results. As pointed out in the links, even with a loss… by going about matters the way TOSCA does (including being able to boast a ZERO budget)… will make those involved a FORCE to contend with. In this mix, we have a backup not made public yet for dealing with the inevitable electoral fraud. As far as Chomsky goes, I think it is wise to not get into what would have to be an endless debate concerning Chomsky’s stance vis-a-vis Israel. I don’t agree with you on that specific… but you know how such debates go. There’s never any satisfying resolution because the outcome in a DV situation like this is not dependent upon INFORMATION given. I do think that the germane issue related to Chomsky here, however, has to do with the question of action. There is NO QUESTION that throughout decades Noam Chomskyhas been all about urging citizens to find ways to take action and not just go blah blah as we are doing here. As I will stop doing once I turn away from DV tonight… as I return to my activism on the streets. LICHEN provided a decent response to you, Deadbeat, regarding the environmental issues for the poor. I would only add that mental images of the poor taking part in some kind of disobedience involving money are off the mark. They have nothing to withhold from the powers that be. And they should not be asked to put their heads on the line or their asses into court and jails either. Which will do no one any good. Civil disobedience has its place, yes. But it must go hand in hand now with a national effort at moving in solidarity in a way that the powers that be will find it more difficult to stop. I don’t see anything else on the horizon that has the potential payoff of our taking over the State of California. Particularly given the way in which we plan to go about. Did I not answer everything here? Let me know if that’s the case, please. Many of the specifics concerning TOSCA which people understandably want fleshed out cannot be made public at this juncture, but can be shared one on one. Direct emails, of course, are no protection. However, no one takes TOSCA seriously at this point… and so information in the wrong hands is very unlikely to cause a problem. I just don’t want to make the effort to explain this and that to anyone who is not a serious candidate for “getting involved.” Love, Your Ox P.S. Giroux was touted on Bill Moyers recently. Use your imagination. What if Henry get Bill for TOSCA? What if Moyers endorses TOSCA? What if Moyers interviews someone who mentions TOSCA? What if Green Day does a TOSCA song? What if Steve Earle does a TOSCA song? And so on. It’s very interesting that the national organizations who say they are fighting the death penalty have thus far not gotten on board. Of all groups, they should be rushing to join us in solidarity ’cause it’s a huge potential payoff for their agenda… on a basis that suits their purposes. But… like with so many individuals and groups… they hold back because the TOSCA thing is truly hard to categorize… demanding much use of the imagination… and asking for positive, bold hope/thought. Not of the Obama variety. HOWEVER, if Steve Earle came on board… all of a sudden it would give those anti-death penalty people something new to think about. TOSCA — at its core — is all about giving people all along the way a 9/11 shock to the system, especially once we’re in office, God willing. Okay, for you, Universe willing. Whatever. love, ox p.s. no hard feelings, please, deadbeat.

  43. Deadbeat said on September 8th, 2009 at 9:42pm #

    Litchen writes …
    Actually, it is the lowest income people who are most heavily impacted by the environment; who will be the first to suffer most severely if/when the worst consequences of global warming come about. So environmentalism is campaigning for the benefit of them.

    And poor people are also the most impacted by Capitalism which means the lack of housing, transport, food, clothes, education, water, debt, and quality of life. What poor people needs however are not esoteric and abstraction they need concrete solution to their immediate needs. If you were starving and homeless, global warming would be the last item on your priority list.

    People like deadbeat do absolutely nothing except make negative critiques on people who actually do things, and he hates the left, but makes reactionary statements like those above, against environmentalism and gay rights.

    Firstly lichen you are never-never land since I’ve never commented on gay rights. That is in your own mind. Please product one quotation to back up your outright lie.

    As far as “environmentalism” it runs the gamut. I’m against Malthusian who pass themselves as “environmentalist”. And of course “environmental” elitists who really don’t give a damn about the poor and people of color.

    As far as “hating the left” please offer a quotation to support your allegation.

    thx
    DB

  44. Richard Oxman said on September 8th, 2009 at 10:02pm #

    Lichen can answer you, but — for the moment — one point should be addressed immediately since it seems to underlie so much of your attitude toward environmentalism and the poor, Deadbeat. Actually, two points. One, “If you were starving and homeless, global warming would be the last item on your priority list” misses the most basic point for those most stressed in our society. To wit, the groundwater and the air IN THEIR LIVES AT PRESENT — not “abstract” global warming — is what they are suffering with along with lack of employment, etc. The lack of a job is a huge problem which must be addressed ASAP. But without a job one can steal. With toxic air one cannot stop breathing if one lives in East Palo Alto, a stone’s throw away from the privileged at Stanford University. [By the way, Deadbeat, I have NO MONEY with which to lay back and abstractly pontificate about environmental problems. And I have NO heartbeats available for anything but addressing the plight of the poor AS w/o $$$. Meaning, that aspect of poor people’s lives is always with me… even if I’m playing with my children, my wife, my friends.] Two, the U.S. military… as arguably the single greatest polluter on earth… is something the poor need to address simultaneously with the OBVIOUS $$$ needs. Like Jeff Leys points out in a piece on Counterpunch today… it’s either Health Care or Warfare. Either/Or. These issues can’t be separated. People of color, poor people et al. — let’s say, the 80% of our country that settles for 7% of its financial wealth — must TAKE OVER the State of California… and see what happens from there. See what happens when citizens can’t wake up or go to sleep without being reminded who’s eating cake with toppings. For some fun, Deadbeat (and others), maybe glance at http://oxtogrind.org/archive/385. It’ll give you an idea of what the payoff would be w TOSCA for POOR PEOPLE. At present, it’s like pulling teeth getting The Average Joe and Jane on board, but that’s more of a function of HABIT than a criticism of TOSCA. More a lack of imagination… which can be reached eventually… than a comment on our efforts. Oxlove, Oxhugs

  45. Deadbeat said on September 9th, 2009 at 3:47am #

    Richard,

    I’ve READ ALL OF the material about TOSCA on your website and IMO it is a LEAP OF FAITH rather than an concrete and coherent plan. You also argue the following …

    I would only add that mental images of the poor taking part in some kind of disobedience involving money are off the mark.

    The problem Richard is that you are forgetting HISTORY. Can you say the Montgomery Bus Boycott? That boycott didn’t cost a whole lot of money but it was MLK first major success. How about the Flint sit-down strike in the 1930’s? What about the underground railroad? How about the lunch counter sit-ins and the student taking over the college campus in the 1960’s? All of these were acts of civil disobedience where people risked physical harm or even death.

    The problem as I see it Richard is that there are “protest” but NO civil disobedience and there is no organize protection for those who disobey. For example, what protection is there for people who want to protest the bank bailout by refusing to pay their bills and debts? If Americans just stop paying their bills wouldn’t that send a POWERFUL message to the ruling Capitalists? What kind of organizing is going on around that or is the Left too afraid to advocate such provocative actions?

    My point Richard as I read your treatise is that your element of “surprise” is a “Green” Party without a party apparatus. That is exactly what you have right now on the Left and you are advocating more of that?! I don’t mean to sound like I’m ridiculing your idea I just don’t see how it’s going to lead to solidarity and to a real electoral victory.

    What is missing, Richard, as I see it is that the Left is too fractured. There is nothing that binds the Left together unlike the Right that seems bounded by racism and Capitalism. Look at what Glen Beck was able to achieve with the smearing of Van Jones. Where was the environmental movement in speaking out in support of Mr. Jones? No where and that wouldn’t have cost any money for them to speak out (or maybe it would have if they were protecting their access). This is just a small example of what will happen without a central apparatus.

    The Green Party on the other hand was sabotaged from within. How will TOSCA prevent this? Your article doesn’t say. Your list of high profile leftist and your desire to recruit a Zionist like Noam Chomsky also leads me to question the veracity of your approach. No offense Richard but I’ve witness first hand how these so-called “leftist” operate and they seem more interested in diverting activists and keeping them off-balanced rather than building solidarity.

    You write in defense of “environmentalism”…

    The lack of a job is a huge problem which must be addressed ASAP. But without a job one can steal. With toxic air one cannot stop breathing if one lives in East Palo Alto, a stone’s throw away from the privileged at Stanford University

    You know Richard you are arguing an abstraction and you hope that you can find followers to join you in your abstraction. You think the poor is going to steal? I wish they would steal from the bankers who received 12 TRILLION dollars in bailout money. But most poor people I know have INTEGRITY and would not consider that and they are also too afraid of the POLICE to even try. I’m sorry Richard but your response only strengthens my argument that your line of thinking is grounded in fanciful intent rather than being strategically practical.

    YOUR GOALS Richard are admirable the question that I am raising however is that your strategy doesn’t seem like it’s going to connect to achieve your goals. A loose confederation that calls for NO sacrifice and no disobedience and no agitation pose no threat to the ruling class. In addition the Left at this point has too many internal contradictions that needs to be address before you can take over a city much less a huge state like California.

    DB

  46. Richard Oxman said on September 9th, 2009 at 8:06am #

    If you had read ALL of the links I provided — which are not all the links on TOSCA on my archived site — slowly, carefully… you might have noticed that I dedicated one of the articles to the Berrigan Brothers and others who have taken part in worthwhile civil disobedience. So… you and I have a problem there, your starting off with statements that are wasting both of our heartbeats. OF COURSE, I am for civil disobedience. I’ve said so on THIS SITE a number of times, BUT… the time is past when any group of concerned citizens can invest their anger in ONLY that mode of protest. TOSCA has to do with providing “a central focus” (to use your words, or close to your words)… a gathering point for people to do something in solidarity nationwide immediately.

    Immediately… for the purpose of institutional change. For the purpose of revolution… which is something the Green Party is not remotely interested in. I do wish you’d get off of that bandwagon of comparing the Green Party — which offers a commendable list of issues to be addressed, but which is not at all about institutional changes.

    Speaking of which, Chomsky is… about institutional changes. FOR DECADES. Again, I do wish you would stop beating a dead horse, trying to engage me in a debate over Chomsky vis-a-vis Zionism. You latch on to what you think is a damning bit of evidence against Chomsky — which I told you I don’t agree with (and refuse to debate because “proof” will resolve nothing here, as you know) — and you create a red herring to distract us from the issue at hand. To wit, ALL the people on the list at http://oxtogrind.org/archive/336 AND Chomsky (who has been very encouraging about TOSCA) are citizens who acknowledge the need to go beyond the Green Party in the next California gubernatorial election… because a MORE radical approach must be embraced with a sense of urgency. Chomsky is not acting as a weight on me… trying to talk me into the notion that TOSCA is too fanciful, too ambitious, too impractical. I’m getting a green light from Noam… short of his providing a public stance on TOSCA.

    And why are ALL those people getting behind something which is about institutional changes with urgency? In part because The Poor and everyone else has survival and decency at stake… which no one else is addressing sufficiently. It doesn’t matter whatsoever what “the odds” are, how people have acted in the past (even yesterday) on The Left. It is time for Don Quixote. Not me. The Don Quixote in everyone. Latent though it may be… enough people still have Don lurking in their internal shadows. And to get to that element in people, that decency, that Love, that sense of being connected…REQUIRES a very PRACTICAL refusal to be dictated to by WHAT PEOPLE HAVE DONE TO DATE. To not be held down by arguments about “human nature” or the history of the Left. To find a way to get the best out in people. Which is not what any of the political parties are about. For when push comes to shove… they come up short… talking about, say, Obama as President instead of talking about him as Murderer. Showing too much unwarranted and self-defeating respect for people, precedent and the rotten core of our Republic.

    One has to do what the character of Marat suggests in Weiss’ play. To wit, stand up in the bathtub (within one’s limitations) and shout that “in the face of the indifference of Nature, I turn myself inside out and invent a meaning.” In the face of the cynicism and resignation and poor performance of the Left, I turn myself inside out and say TOSCA will have a shot at doing something new, powerful… in time. In time.

    The Governor of California can tell people HOW to conduct civil disobedience. And don’t tell me he/she would be removed from office if he/she did so. Think before saying such things. To be creative enough to capture the Sacred Seat in Sacramento demands that you give TOSCA more credit than taking each and every nook and cranny to dismiss, discredit or whatever. That seems to be your approach, Deadbeat. Enough of the Devil’s Adovcate bull; get down with trying to think creatively, positively about what I’m putting on the table here. I don’t need your passing compliments. THINK about what the impact would be of a Guv getting into office without money telling citizens HOW TO CONDUCT DISOBEDIENCE.

    I’d like to get Van Jones on board… after providing a reorientation. He may have not rec’d support — who cares? — because he had chosen to associate with Obama at all. Like I told that great Australian anti-nuclear activist/writer (can’t remember her name at the moment, but she is HUGE)… “You can’t go to bed w Robert McNamara in the name of using his influence regarding your agenda.” Van’s move to work with Obama is much more damning than what you’ve been trying to bring up about Chomsky vis-a-vis Israel, but you’ve chosen to complain about Van’s lack of support.

    We need institutional change. That OBVIOUSLY could not be possible via Obama. WHY then do people continue to try to work through the system? The system, as per TOSCA or some other action, must be overhauled. Radically. And quickly.

    The stuff you say about poor people and stealing reveals little thought on your part. Look, I did not bring up “stealing” as if that was to be recommended or practical. Got that? Think again. You’re not thinking. You’re looking to contradict. Check that out in yourself, please. These heartbeats are too valuable to waste. I brought up stealing in the light of trying to underscore the difference between not having money to pay bills and to buy bood VS. drinking toxic groundwater and breathing hazardous/carcinogenic air. The point being, as I remember, to say that poor people and everyone must embrace the need to address environmental issues simultaneously. Whether or not they need a job, Whether or not they are losing their homes. Do I have to delineate why?

    It is not in my nature to be cruel. To put people down. To humiliate. To be sarcastic. To be one-up at any cost. However, Deadbeat, it is time for you to put up or shut up. I am NOT into explaining or defending TOSCA to you any further… unless you’re willing to show up on my doorstep… the address to which I will gladly provide in confidence. And the reason is that enough of what I have to say about it is in the links provided at this point. To go beyond that, in person contact is required. Obviously. And — more importantly — I want to underscore that the only way that TOSCA will be able to get off of the ground is for people who are recruiting to have the courage to move on, to not beat a dead horse, thinking that each and every encounter can be successful. Keeping in mind that in the last gubernatorial election only 39% of eligible voters voted. And about 250,000 votes (about the same # the Green Party got) weren’t counted. One has to be totally devoid of imagination to not see what watershed in history could be created if TOSCA simply got into that ballpark… even with losing. In the process of pulling THAT off… something radical might very well happen on its own… without TOSCA having to direct anything. And, in any event, it’s the only shot we have. Show me something else or let’s say goodbye for now, okay?

  47. Richard Oxman said on September 9th, 2009 at 8:14am #

    Dr. Helen Caldicott. That was her name. She thought that she could wine and dine with Murderer McNamara and make advances with insiders. By the way, I should have added above in the comment I just posted here… that if you are so interested in undermining ZIONISM… WHY ON EARTH ARE YOU NOT EMBRACING THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THE GUV OF CA — who has so much influence with The Regents — TO INITIATE BOYCOTT, SANCTIONS AND DIVESTMENT VIS-A-VIS THE UC SYSTEM? Don’t even answer that Deadbeat. Just get down with TOSCA in a proactive way, and give it your chance for it to breathe. How will we recruit people from the factured Left? One by one. Starting with you. Ooppps… sorry, we’ve already got a few on board. Still… for all practical purposes… starting with you.

  48. bozhidar balkas vancouver said on September 9th, 2009 at 10:26am #

    i have some questions for people who explicitly or tacitly agree with chomsky’s avoidance to state that the right to return is non-negotiable. Chomsky does rationalize away this panhuman right.
    The question is, What are justifiable causes or reasons to deny this right to pal’ns? I see no causative factor for barring return!

    Chomsky had also urged people to vote for lesser evil. But can anyone elucidates us what “lesser” evil means? Wld it not been more understandable and adequate-accurate to have stated “vote for another evil; that of O’s”.
    And how did chomsky know or expect that what US wld do in ’09 and on, wld amount to fewer deaths and destruction in afpak, palestine, and iraq?

    No, he cldn’t have known? However, he cld have expected it. So, the question is, Why such not-so-subtle-propaganda or even brazen lies?

    Chomsky also said that there are some differences btwn dems and reps and then fails to enumerate them. Any honest observer wld have listed at least couple in order to buttrees the generalization.
    Did chomsky ommit enumerating the differences because there is not any at all.
    In fact, a dem may be farther right than a given rep or vice-versa. If i remember correctly and as far as i know, Only biden has called on bombing belgrade.
    so much for evil 1 [bush’] and evil 2 [o’s] And evil 2 being even greater. tnx

  49. Richard Oxman said on September 9th, 2009 at 11:31am #

    I just lost an entire entry which I laid out for both Deadbeat and Balkas and others regarding Chomsky. Cyberspace crash. Out of respect for the importance of what I said, however, I will try to at least sound bite what I remember saying.

    For starters, anyone who wants to know answers to their questions about Chomsky should open the horse’s mouth. To wit, they should write directly to Noam at ude.timnull@yksmohc or do it via snail mail. He WILL respond in time. Which is saying so much about him, that only a person who has not the slightest hint of how busy he is, how long he has been THAT busy serving, will fail to acknowledge that in this world that alone deserves enormous respect… regardless of how one may differ w regard to a given issue. And ON THAT NOTE, I submit that neither Deadbeat nor Balkas really has an accurate take on either where Chomsky stands on certain issues, or what he has declared for public consumption. For instance, he has at certain points declared that there are diffs between the two major parties for some people at some junctures — has said that in the past — BUT… he never used that as a basis for encouraging people to do a dance on behalf of either party. The “diffs” WERE, in fact, a matter of life and death for some… which was the point he was making always, simultaneously underscoring the larger point that the diffs were horridly small concerning many crucial issues. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THAT IF ANYONE WRITES TO CHOMSKY — out of respect and common sense… for practical purposes, if nothing else — YOU CAREFULLY EDIT/CONDENSE WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY SO THAT HE CAN RESPOND EXPEDITIOUSLY AND NOT BE TORTURED BY A RAMBLING MISSIVE. Good fortune and do keep me posted about the results,
    Ox P.S. I just got a local surfer dude on board with TOSCA, I believe. I am slated to meet with him today, I think, and (returning to Deadbeat’s earlier blah blah)… like I told my wife… he is likely to contribute more than Zinn, Parenti and Blum put together on the street, at Ground Zero… where it is important. And I am sure that Howard, Michael and Bill would concur that this turn of events holds enormous potential… for he is a very enthusiastic, very positive, open individual.

  50. bozh said on September 9th, 2009 at 12:31pm #

    richard oxman, with respect. But i do want to bring u up!
    First of all, i do not engage much if at all in ad hominem praise or ad hominem blame.
    I do not dwell much on what anyone or anything is. I look almost solely on what a person does, says, or writes.

    I’ve posited what chomsky said. He was quoted as saying what i said in my above-post.
    I am certain that if chomsky hadn’d said the statements in question, he wld have issued a protest.

    Richard, are u not putting lotsof words in chomsky’s mouth?
    To wit: “he’s busy”; “deserves respect”! cannot he speak for self? This is like people who assert there is god; only to contradict it by saying s’mthing like, God wants u to do this and that; God is merciful, etc., as if god is dumb, numb, deaf, speechless, and blind.

    “He never encouraged people to do a dance on behalf of either party”. Did C say that? Did i accuse him that he urged people to do a jig? Or did i accurately quote him in saying that he said to “vote for lessser evil”?
    “The differences were matter of life or death for some” . Again, these are your words?!
    However, this appears as a generalization; thus, it is meaningful-meaning less to frustration.
    Was it a matter of death to a soldier, peter, lisa, or steven and a matter of life to joe, doe, lee, et al.
    Richard, i am not saying that u are deliberately pulling me by my tongue.
    But whatever the case, some of us do have special skills properly evaluating what is being said or written.
    Thank u very much for chomsky’s email address. I have been dying to get it. And i will bring the points to him. tnks
    btw, u know that i have not asked u specifically to answer my questions!

  51. Richard Oxman said on September 9th, 2009 at 2:42pm #

    You are all over the place, as they say, Bozh, with this entry. How can you have been “dying” to get Chomsky’s email when it’s as easy as pie to get/

    “I am certain that if chomsky hadn’d said the statements in question, he wld have issued a protest.” Where is this statement coming from? Seriously. It makes no sense on at least three counts. One of which has to do with the obvious fact that it’s clear that you don’t have a clue as to what Chomsky says or doesn’t say… here and there. Look, Bozh, it’s not worth the heartbeats to respond to your nooks and crannies here. There’s only one overriding point to make… which advice, if you follow it, will put to bed ALL of your concerns, create clarity for you. That is, WHEN you email Noam Chomsky… DO assume that he’s too busy to bother with the kind of rambling diahrrea you’ve put forth above. This is not to make him into a God, as you put it, but rather to increase the chances that you won’t wind up being the only person this year who he does NOT respond to. It’ll be very important for you to spend some time paring down what you have to say… so that you simply ask in very short sentences exactly what you want to know… getting to your points crisply, clearly and in as condensed a fashion as possible.

    By the way, for your information, Chomsky did NOT vote for either of the so-called two major candidates on the national level last time out.
    The fact that he voted at all on for PREZ should tell you something… if you know what his attitude is toward people who run for that highest of offices.

    Best, Ox

  52. bozh said on September 9th, 2009 at 4:25pm #

    I have just emailed chomsky; however, the computer said: “can’t find the document.
    I think you are a zionist like chomsky; thus, you defend an obvious zionsist. You also accuse me of many things even tho you asssert that u don’t attack a person.
    I don’t talk to zionists. Don’t bother with more accusations because i am not reading anything u have to say.

  53. Richard Oxman said on September 9th, 2009 at 4:34pm #

    In case anyone else is checking in, they might want to note that Jennifer Loewenstein is listed at http://oxgrind.org/archive/336 in support of TOSCA. That should put what Bozh has to say in proper perspective… if anyone knows what Jennifer risks her life about… so much of the time.
    Love, Ox P.S. Sorry for making you feel badly, Bozh. Truly.

  54. lichen said on September 9th, 2009 at 6:42pm #

    Deadbeat, I don’t have to, and I won’t bother quoting 95% of your posts to this website wherein you spouted some hateful rhetoric at/about the left.

    Personally, when I was homeless and starving, I still noticed the environment and thought about global warming quite a bit; still supported that line of politics, and put my anger and rage in the right place; i.e. not at environmentalists, but at the right wing scum who support inequality. There is a big difference between putting concerted analysis behind populist rage and just lashing out at anyone in sight who is vulnerable or fringe; it also shows the true internal ugliness of a person by who their prefferred targets become. The homeless hippies on the west coast certainly think about the environment as well; not everyone who ends up poor or homeless is uneducated and conservative.

    The economically disadvantaged are more likely to live on property contaminated by toxic waste, near airports/deisel truck stations, near nuclear power plants, cell towers… Their lack of education and resources makes it easier for big corporations to pollute them into chronic health conditions without consequences. They are more likely to be forced in toxic work conditions as well; involving huge amounts of pesticides, poisonous industrial solvents, and other chemicals. They also often end up with the worst, most polluted and badly preserved ‘food.’ We can, and more importantly, we HAVE TO alleviate poverty and help the environment at the same time, as Van Jones was going to try to do, no matter how effective he would have been.

    Climate change is a global emergency, and it is here right now; this isn’t the 1970’s, and you can’t try to create polluting, unsustainable jobs/welfare states and think that you’re alright. There will be no jobs left if Manhattan and San Francisco, and Miami sink underneath rising sea levels. So we have to do both; to create green jobs and a green egalitarian society.

    You once made a comment about gay people being racist, and further insisted that only race is an important identity politics issue, not GLBT or gender. I remember you also tried to defend the black people who allegedly voted for proposition 8 in California, by blaming the left or claiming GLBT people, like the transexuals who live on the streets, are all ‘elitist.’ As if there are not elitist black people. That is why I said you’ve made reactionary comments about these two issues.

  55. Deadbeat said on September 9th, 2009 at 6:55pm #

    Deadbeat, I don’t have to, and I won’t bother quoting 95% of your posts to this website wherein you spouted some hateful rhetoric at/about the left.

    IF what you say is true then it should be very easy for you to support your assertion. Obviously you won’t because you cannot.

  56. Deadbeat said on September 9th, 2009 at 6:57pm #

    Personally, when I was homeless and starving, I still noticed the environment and thought about global warming quite a bit; still supported that line of politics, and put my anger and rage in the right place; i.e. not at environmentalists, but at the right wing scum who support inequality

    Thus lichen I guess you must be the exception. I too was made homeless — BY THE COURTS. I didn’t care about global warming and the other homeless folks I encountered wasn’t concerned about global warming either.

  57. Richard Oxman said on September 9th, 2009 at 7:27pm #

    If you all don’t mind my jumping in the fray, I’d like to say… even though I just skimmed both of your words along the way… didn’t really do them justice… that it doesn’t matter what this or that person might or might not be concerned about… when it comes to the environment… ’cause… not too be overly “undemocratic”… events are crying out for a little vision… a little leadership… a little taking the ecocidal bull by the horns. That is, unless at least a small group of dedicated citizens attempts to do something “additional” on a large scale vis-a-vis the environment then everyone will be going down as per Ban Ki-moon’s prediction, and by the word of many others. So… maybe — getting away from each of us as personalities — we can agree to find some mutual ground wherein we can take some action together. That’s actually a question. Like I said before, I’m not attached to TOSCA, but we really do have to embrace something other than hope in the Copenhagen emissaries and the Copenhagen protesters. Yes? Lots of the sweet people supporting TOSCA are doing great environmental work in their little (albeit important) corners, BUT… they’re joining hands in solidarity in the name of our having to do something ELSE too. Oxlove

  58. lichen said on September 10th, 2009 at 2:15pm #

    Richard, of course, we don’t need absolute consensus with everyone’s thoughts – and we don’t need to sharply divide people over the smallest matters. Much more does need to be done – much more than the politicians trekking to Copenhagen are willing to do, and they–the world needs to be forced into retaining a state that can still sustain a vibrant diversity of life. And that will require a great deal of mass action. I also support Tosca, though I don’t live in California anymore.

  59. Richard Oxman said on September 10th, 2009 at 2:22pm #

    Thanks, Lichen. In supporting TOSCA, please note that you don’t have to live in California to participate on a basis that will suit your purposes. For instance: 1) Can you connect me with people in California? 2) Can you connect me with people outside of California? 3) Do you want to recommend a citizen of California to serve with our dozen citizens AS GOVERNOR? 4) Is it possible that anyone you know (or you) will be visiting CA soon? And so on. Best, Ox P.S. PLEASE, everyone who reads this… I’d like you to consider the same questions… whether you do or do not support TOSCA.

  60. Deadbeat said on September 10th, 2009 at 2:30pm #

    Here Oxmans THIS IS WHAT I’M TAKING ABOUT …

    Debter’s Revolt

    THIS IS ACTION that it appears the PEOPLE will be WAY OUT IN FRONT and the LEFT left behind.

    The women in the video UNDERSTANDS CIVIL DISOBIENANCE a WHOLE LOT more than your TOSCA scheme. Why is the LEFT so damn confused? Perhaps because they’ve been listening to Chomsky and his bullshit for 30 years.

  61. Max Shields said on September 10th, 2009 at 3:49pm #

    Deadbeat, I will serve as witness to lichens remarks. He’s got your number fella.

  62. Richard Oxman said on September 10th, 2009 at 4:31pm #

    Thanks Max. Thanks Lichen. Not just for Deadbeat this: I watched the video with interest earlier today… but it’s a shame that I couldn’t find any opportunity to hook up with others, no contact info… if I am correct. There would be every reason for someone going on a debtor strike to make movement in solidarity possible and no reason not to…. As is all is left up to people seeing the video… and acting as the person wishes… with no op for encouragement, follow-up, etc. It’s very typical of stuff on the Left… and, at least, TOSCA does not have that as a downside. It’s now really offensive to hear ongoing diatribe about Chomsky. I think you owe it to yourself and to us and to Chomsky to attempt simple, direct, polite contact to MIT… where he will provide you with the necessary info to get straightened out about where he stands as I write.

  63. Deadbeat said on September 10th, 2009 at 8:29pm #

    Deadbeat, I will serve as witness to lichens remarks. He’s got your number fella.

    HAHAAHAHAHA Yes Max you really lichen to help you save face. Who cares. I’m not here to persuade you, lichen or Oxman. What I am doing is offering counterpoints to what will once again split the left waste the time, energy and efforts of ordinary citizens.

    I’d rather spend my time with the “NAMELESS” woman in the video who like myself are engaging in REAL DISOBEDIENCE. That is why I call myself DEADBEAT.

  64. lichen said on September 11th, 2009 at 1:59pm #

    Deadbeat, your post shows further that Max is indeed right, you are fundamentally ugly, negative, hateful; your only rhetoric is hateful or exploitative to your subject, and you have not an ounce of kindness for your fellow human. If apparently your affections are only for people who refuse to pay off their credit cards, than go dedicate your life towards joining with that woman in the video; otherwise you have no place from which to mindlessly attack people like Richard who are actually doing some very noble and worthwhile organizing as opposed to throwing a youtube video into the vaccum.

    Also, yes, people who can be described as lefist have already recommended and engaged in debter revolts before that woman came along; perhaps if you were not so self-righteous people would actually like to discuss that subject with you. Clearly what you do at DV is intentionally try to inflame and insult the people most likely to visit this site every chance you get. I think you seem to have as much insight and flexibility as USF does, and will be about as effective he is.

  65. Deadbeat said on September 11th, 2009 at 2:33pm #

    lichen can you do better than argue ad hominems and make an arguments that has a factual basis and supply links to support your arguments. For example here are some links to support my severe criticism of Noam Chomsky.

    If you want to criticize me please support your arguments with references. Otherwise you just simply sound silly and wimpy like I hurt your feelings because I am aggressively ANTI-ZIONIST. I really hope being ANTI-ZIONIST and ANTI-RACIST and ANTI-CAPITALIST is not a cause for hurting your feelings because then I would have to question your veracity.

  66. Deadbeat said on September 11th, 2009 at 2:38pm #

    . I think you seem to have as much insight and flexibility as USF does, and will be about as effective he is.

    HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA lichen your about comment is about the funniest remark I’ve seen on DV. Deadbeat is not the one who has been misguiding and misleading the Left for the past 30 years.

    Are you really concerned about MY influence? How pathetic are you?