Comments on: The Idiocy of Sex Testing http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:07:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: b99 http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-53085 b99 Thu, 27 Aug 2009 14:00:55 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-53085 Tired - You know, there are all sorts of differences that may be applied to males and females - but there is also so much overlap that I don't think we can jump to conclusions too quickly. Besides, there are cultural and social factors regarding chess that are fairly absent from the very simple question of who can get from point A to point B faster on foot. In short, however, whatever basic differences there are between genders, so much can be reinforced or mitigated by culture - women of a century ago would scarcely recognize themselves in their great-great-granddaughters. But if you are 'tired of weaker sex' you (or your a companion) could try Viagra. :) A weak sex joke. Tired – You know, there are all sorts of differences that may be applied to males and females – but there is also so much overlap that I don’t think we can jump to conclusions too quickly. Besides, there are cultural and social factors regarding chess that are fairly absent from the very simple question of who can get from point A to point B faster on foot. In short, however, whatever basic differences there are between genders, so much can be reinforced or mitigated by culture – women of a century ago would scarcely recognize themselves in their great-great-granddaughters.

But if you are ‘tired of weaker sex’ you (or your a companion) could try Viagra. :) A weak sex joke.

]]> By: tired of weaker sex http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-53037 tired of weaker sex Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:56:59 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-53037 how about chess? except for the Polgar sisters how about chess? except for the Polgar sisters

]]> By: b99 http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52916 b99 Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:09:27 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52916 Right, being a man is no more or less human than being a woman. They are both equally human - as are all Homo sapiens. Saying that does not mean that males and females are the same - quite obviously, no? There are no superhumans. Maybe Ussain Bolt. The rarefied elite come out of humble backgrounds. At the level of the humble background we find schools. There, whether middle school or high school, males will dominate the track and field events (to say nothing of team sports). To mix girls and boys is to discourage girls entirely - and they will disappear from these sports. Here are the present US highschool record times and women's World record times for various distances. Event/US Male highschool record/female world record 100 meters/10.01/10.61 200 meters/20.13/21.34 400 meters/44.69/47.60 800 meters/ 1:46/1:53 1000 meters/2:24/2:28 1500 meters/3:38/3:50 mile/3:53/4:12 The pattern is consistent over time and event. I am avid fan of track and field, both male and female. I would hate to return to the era of less than a century ago - when women were not allowed to compete. To force women and girls to compete against men and boys is a disservice to women. They DO enjoy it you know, every bit as much as men do. Not all the top male long-distance runners are Kenyan. Granted, they perform disproportionately better than other groups (save Ethiopians and Moroccans to a lesser degree) but the differences are not so huge as to be insurmountable in any given race. Not so with gender. OK - it's not just upper body strength. It's the muscle to fat ratio, the strength of connective tissue, and percentage of fast-twitch nerves. In the long distance running, lung-capacity also becomes important. Kenyans from the highlands of that country apparently have increased lung capacity and otherwise rather gracile bodies amenable to long-distance running. Few Kenyans from the coastal lowlands excel at long distances. Certainly, there is a running boom in Kenya, a cultural phenomenon, and there is more money these days for training (to some extent). But studies have not sufficiently explained why Kenyans are better than most everyone else. Right, being a man is no more or less human than being a woman. They are both equally human – as are all Homo sapiens. Saying that does not mean that males and females are the same – quite obviously, no? There are no superhumans. Maybe Ussain Bolt.

The rarefied elite come out of humble backgrounds. At the level of the humble background we find schools. There, whether middle school or high school, males will dominate the track and field events (to say nothing of team sports). To mix girls and boys is to discourage girls entirely – and they will disappear from these sports.

Here are the present US highschool record times and women’s World record times for various distances.
Event/US Male highschool record/female world record
100 meters/10.01/10.61
200 meters/20.13/21.34
400 meters/44.69/47.60
800 meters/ 1:46/1:53
1000 meters/2:24/2:28
1500 meters/3:38/3:50
mile/3:53/4:12

The pattern is consistent over time and event. I am avid fan of track and field, both male and female. I would hate to return to the era of less than a century ago – when women were not allowed to compete. To force women and girls to compete against men and boys is a disservice to women. They DO enjoy it you know, every bit as much as men do.

Not all the top male long-distance runners are Kenyan. Granted, they perform disproportionately better than other groups (save Ethiopians and Moroccans to a lesser degree) but the differences are not so huge as to be insurmountable in any given race. Not so with gender.

OK – it’s not just upper body strength. It’s the muscle to fat ratio, the strength of connective tissue, and percentage of fast-twitch nerves. In the long distance running, lung-capacity also becomes important. Kenyans from the highlands of that country apparently have increased lung capacity and otherwise rather gracile bodies amenable to long-distance running. Few Kenyans from the coastal lowlands excel at long distances. Certainly, there is a running boom in Kenya, a cultural phenomenon, and there is more money these days for training (to some extent). But studies have not sufficiently explained why Kenyans are better than most everyone else.

]]> By: toto http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52905 toto Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:19:45 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52905 So just because in the rarefied elite sport ranks the differences emerge we must segregate all sports. If races are categorized by ABILITY you would have people of near equal strengths and skill compete. And no way in hell, "The best women sprinters could possibly compete with the best high school males." Being a man does not make you superhuman. All the top marathon runners are Kenyan. Does that mean we just have a Kenyan only race because its not fair for others to compete against them? And what does a strong upper body have to do with marathon running? So just because in the rarefied elite sport ranks the differences emerge we must segregate all sports. If races are categorized by ABILITY you would have people of near equal strengths and skill compete.

And no way in hell, “The best women sprinters could possibly compete with the best high school males.” Being a man does not make you superhuman.

All the top marathon runners are Kenyan. Does that mean we just have a Kenyan only race because its not fair for others to compete against them? And what does a strong upper body have to do with marathon running?

]]> By: B99 http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52857 B99 Tue, 25 Aug 2009 03:02:56 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52857 You have missed the point, Toto. There is NO sport that women can compete with men at the elite level. Not just the sprints, but all track and field events, all swimming, all team sports, period. The only exceptions would be sports men don't play. Maybe softball? This is because beginning with puberty, males develop upper bodies that are considerably stronger than developing females. That's the nature of the beast - literally. It is based in sexual dimorphism common to almost all mammal species. So it is pointless to groom women to compete against men at elite levels - it will only end in their disappearance from the sport. Title IX guarantees (in theory) equal funding of women's sports in college. That's great. Why end it by making them compete with men? In the 100 meter sprint, a one second difference is equal to about 10 meters or 33 feet. That would be an embarrassing finish. In fact, she would have been eliminated much earlier by not making a qualifying time. The best women sprinters could possibly compete with the best high school males. Do you know that very good (but not elite) male marathon runners run alongside elite women runners? These male runners are virtually unknown outside of the sport. But that's the difference in elite times by gender - about 20 minutes. You have missed the point, Toto. There is NO sport that women can compete with men at the elite level. Not just the sprints, but all track and field events, all swimming, all team sports, period. The only exceptions would be sports men don’t play. Maybe softball? This is because beginning with puberty, males develop upper bodies that are considerably stronger than developing females. That’s the nature of the beast – literally. It is based in sexual dimorphism common to almost all mammal species. So it is pointless to groom women to compete against men at elite levels – it will only end in their disappearance from the sport. Title IX guarantees (in theory) equal funding of women’s sports in college. That’s great. Why end it by making them compete with men?

In the 100 meter sprint, a one second difference is equal to about 10 meters or 33 feet. That would be an embarrassing finish. In fact, she would have been eliminated much earlier by not making a qualifying time. The best women sprinters could possibly compete with the best high school males.

Do you know that very good (but not elite) male marathon runners run alongside elite women runners? These male runners are virtually unknown outside of the sport. But that’s the difference in elite times by gender – about 20 minutes.

]]> By: toto http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52831 toto Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:57:20 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52831 Again, if you would respond to what I wrote instead of shifting the argument to, "men are physically stronger than woman therefore they will always excel in any sport", nonsense. First of all, the 100 meter sprint, is not the end all and be all of sport. Arguments that might work for this particular sport may not work for others. Secondly, just looking at the times for the 100 meter sprint, the top woman's times are 1 second behind the top males. Hence, those woman probably just smoked 90% of all male 100 meter sprinters. Again, if you would respond to what I wrote instead of shifting the argument to, “men are physically stronger than woman therefore they will always excel in any sport”, nonsense. First of all, the 100 meter sprint, is not the end all and be all of sport. Arguments that might work for this particular sport may not work for others. Secondly, just looking at the times for the 100 meter sprint, the top woman’s times are 1 second behind the top males. Hence, those woman probably just smoked 90% of all male 100 meter sprinters.

]]> By: B99 http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52826 B99 Mon, 24 Aug 2009 21:30:57 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52826 Indeed Rosemary. I agree that competition can be hedonistic. But there is nothing inherently wrong in a women's or men's softball team, swim event, etc. Within the concept of winning the game and making the play, there are lessons to be learned other than kill the enemy. There are lessons to be learned in humility and human frailty as well. These lessons have been de-emphasized. This is where our political culture has failed. I would say that although capitalism is based on competition, capitalism has molded it to meet its own interests - and that it exists long before capitalism came about. It is in fact, instinctual. It needs to be re-oriented. Indeed Rosemary. I agree that competition can be hedonistic. But there is nothing inherently wrong in a women’s or men’s softball team, swim event, etc. Within the concept of winning the game and making the play, there are lessons to be learned other than kill the enemy. There are lessons to be learned in humility and human frailty as well. These lessons have been de-emphasized. This is where our political culture has failed.

I would say that although capitalism is based on competition, capitalism has molded it to meet its own interests – and that it exists long before capitalism came about. It is in fact, instinctual. It needs to be re-oriented.

]]> By: rosemarie jackowski http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52810 rosemarie jackowski Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:54:02 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52810 B99...No, I do not advocate legislation banning competition. I just don't think that because something feels good or is fun, it should necessarily be encouraged. There just might be a higher value to pursue than hedonism. Capitalism is based on competition and look where that got us. B99…No, I do not advocate legislation banning competition. I just don’t think that because something feels good or is fun, it should necessarily be encouraged. There just might be a higher value to pursue than hedonism.

Capitalism is based on competition and look where that got us.

]]> By: b99 http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52803 b99 Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:25:31 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52803 No Toto. Women's performaces in the sprints, the middle and long-distance running and heights and lengths in the field events and in swimming only begin to approach the standards of men of several decades ago. What this means is that once males get to puberty, females are no longer in the race. So for the 100 meter sprint, the record for men in 1912 was 10.6 seconds. The PRESENT record for women is 10.5 - and that was accomplished in 1988 by a woman whom most believe to have been using steroids. Before that, it was 10.8 - slower than males of nearly century ago. In the mile, men were running the distance in 4:12 in the late 19th century. That happens also to be the PRESENT world record for women. Forcing women to compete against men would mean the demise of women's track and field sports (and swimming, etc.) Unless, of course, that is your goal. No Toto. Women’s performaces in the sprints, the middle and long-distance running and heights and lengths in the field events and in swimming only begin to approach the standards of men of several decades ago. What this means is that once males get to puberty, females are no longer in the race.

So for the 100 meter sprint, the record for men in 1912 was 10.6 seconds. The PRESENT record for women is 10.5 – and that was accomplished in 1988 by a woman whom most believe to have been using steroids. Before that, it was 10.8 – slower than males of nearly century ago.

In the mile, men were running the distance in 4:12 in the late 19th century. That happens also to be the PRESENT world record for women.

Forcing women to compete against men would mean the demise of women’s track and field sports (and swimming, etc.) Unless, of course, that is your goal.

]]> By: toto http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52777 toto Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:07:36 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52777 Your absolutley incorrect B99. It is obvious to anyone that an ability based categorization irregardless of gender can work just as well. Then the problem would be all the sandbagging men I sure. Your absolutley incorrect B99. It is obvious to anyone that an ability based categorization irregardless of gender can work just as well. Then the problem would be all the sandbagging men I sure.

]]> By: B99 http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52749 B99 Mon, 24 Aug 2009 03:17:57 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52749 Yes Toto, men and women should not compete in running events - nor in a host of other events. If they continued to do so the race would only be among men. And then I suppose you'd be clamoring to have separate events for women because they have been marginalized - nay eliminated. But I don't suppose you are familiar with this sport. Yes Toto, men and women should not compete in running events – nor in a host of other events. If they continued to do so the race would only be among men. And then I suppose you’d be clamoring to have separate events for women because they have been marginalized – nay eliminated. But I don’t suppose you are familiar with this sport.

]]> By: toto http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52742 toto Mon, 24 Aug 2009 00:34:05 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52742 The science is well know. Ziron makes a very good point, other than not be able to bear children, the XY woman is no different from an XX female. B99 would have you believe that somehow a man is competing against a woman, dear god what an injustice! The science is well know. Ziron makes a very good point, other than not be able to bear children, the XY woman is no different from an XX female.

B99 would have you believe that somehow a man is competing against a woman, dear god what an injustice!

]]> By: B99 http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52707 B99 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:50:15 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52707 Rosemarie - Are you going to legislate against competition? Can't people compete if they want to? Surely, cooperation should be the societal emphasis - and not just in sports - but people love to compete, we see it even here on DV. Since the ancient Greeks until well into the 20th century, women were not allowed into marathon runs or the Olympics, on the grounds that the weaker sex was too fragile and they would hurt themselves. Now we know that many women not only love to compete - they excel at it. In any case, team sports contain both cooperation and competition. The two together are what make team sports as popular as they are (especially among males). Sports would simply disappear without competition. What would actually happen is that they would be taken underground -black market sports, like boxing used to be. Rosemarie – Are you going to legislate against competition? Can’t people compete if they want to? Surely, cooperation should be the societal emphasis – and not just in sports – but people love to compete, we see it even here on DV. Since the ancient Greeks until well into the 20th century, women were not allowed into marathon runs or the Olympics, on the grounds that the weaker sex was too fragile and they would hurt themselves. Now we know that many women not only love to compete – they excel at it.

In any case, team sports contain both cooperation and competition. The two together are what make team sports as popular as they are (especially among males). Sports would simply disappear without competition. What would actually happen is that they would be taken underground -black market sports, like boxing used to be.

]]> By: rosemarie jackowski http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52705 rosemarie jackowski Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:24:10 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52705 One more reason why competitive sports should should end. Let's try a world based on cooperation instead of competition. It's "my team is better than your team" type thinking that sometimes leads to "my country is better than your country". One more reason why competitive sports should should end. Let’s try a world based on cooperation instead of competition. It’s “my team is better than your team” type thinking that sometimes leads to “my country is better than your country”.

]]> By: B99 http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52689 B99 Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:23:09 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52689 Can't have men competing as women. All athletes should be gender-tested, the results kept private. Only those with XX genes should compete with women - any other combination, including the usual XY, should only compete with men. This particular race was handily won by the 18-year old Caster Semenya - a person and name with virtually no acclaim on the international circuit even six months ago - beating former world champions and internationally recognized elite runners with ease. That can't be. Contrary to this article, there is too much gender difference in performance for males and females to compete against each other. Why destroy women's racing? Can’t have men competing as women. All athletes should be gender-tested, the results kept private. Only those with XX genes should compete with women – any other combination, including the usual XY, should only compete with men.

This particular race was handily won by the 18-year old Caster Semenya – a person and name with virtually no acclaim on the international circuit even six months ago – beating former world champions and internationally recognized elite runners with ease. That can’t be. Contrary to this article, there is too much gender difference in performance for males and females to compete against each other. Why destroy women’s racing?

]]> By: russell olausen http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52661 russell olausen Sun, 23 Aug 2009 00:00:12 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52661 An extremely confusing physical experience for the unaware; maybe competition by weight would serve objectivity as well. Science may well make sex organs redundant and we will be left with cell division Mr. Frankenstein. An extremely confusing physical experience for the unaware; maybe competition by weight would serve objectivity as well. Science may well make sex organs redundant and we will be left with cell division Mr. Frankenstein.

]]> By: Comptia A+ http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/the-idiocy-of-sex-testing/#comment-52623 Comptia A+ Sat, 22 Aug 2009 18:33:38 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=10007#comment-52623 We don’t discriminate against tall women and say they shouldn’t compete because they’re too tall. If they have been born and raised as women and they think about themselves as women I would say let them compete as women. <a href="http://www.ccnacertificationguide.com" rel="nofollow">ccna</a> <a href="http://www.ccent.ws" rel="nofollow">ccent</a> We don’t discriminate against tall women and say they shouldn’t compete because they’re too tall.
If they have been born and raised as women and they think about themselves as women I would say let them compete as women.
ccna ccent

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