Comments on: Into the Vapid: Consuming the Cultural Product http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/into-the-vapid-consuming-the-cultural-product/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:07:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: siamdave http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/into-the-vapid-consuming-the-cultural-product/#comment-51374 siamdave Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:10:43 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9550#comment-51374 very true stuff - I was a Beatles devotee for years, and still like the music - but sometime during my awakening the last couple of decades it began to occur to me that for all the hype, they really did not change much, and nothing in any useful way - in terms of who is running things here, the neocons have only gotten stronger since they got serious about things in the 70s. Yes, they were 'only' musicisans and not gods, and could not do everything - but they, and other influential cultural figures, musicians, writers, actors, could be doing considerably more in the way of telling people to get the earphones out and start getting involved with things than they do - some honorable exceptions notwithstanding (and I wouldn't include people like Bono in that group, who seem to be very much supporting the power structure rather than promoting some kind of real democratic movement in OUR countries, which is what is needed. Anyway, if you are looking for some alternative visions for society, books the mainstream press or media will not go near, there is Green Island http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland.html . very true stuff – I was a Beatles devotee for years, and still like the music – but sometime during my awakening the last couple of decades it began to occur to me that for all the hype, they really did not change much, and nothing in any useful way – in terms of who is running things here, the neocons have only gotten stronger since they got serious about things in the 70s. Yes, they were ‘only’ musicisans and not gods, and could not do everything – but they, and other influential cultural figures, musicians, writers, actors, could be doing considerably more in the way of telling people to get the earphones out and start getting involved with things than they do – some honorable exceptions notwithstanding (and I wouldn’t include people like Bono in that group, who seem to be very much supporting the power structure rather than promoting some kind of real democratic movement in OUR countries, which is what is needed.
Anyway, if you are looking for some alternative visions for society, books the mainstream press or media will not go near, there is Green Island http://www.rudemacedon.ca/greenisland.html .

]]> By: ron http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/into-the-vapid-consuming-the-cultural-product/#comment-51349 ron Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:24:24 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9550#comment-51349 thanks for the comments, Deadbeat. I agree with your points and also who you name as quality hip-hop groups. The primary point of my piece when it comes to music was exactly the same as your last sentence. peace thanks for the comments, Deadbeat. I agree with your points and also who you name as quality hip-hop groups. The primary point of my piece when it comes to music was exactly the same as your last sentence.
peace

]]> By: Deadbeat http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/into-the-vapid-consuming-the-cultural-product/#comment-51330 Deadbeat Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:27:26 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9550#comment-51330 <i>Just like the later phenomenon of hip-hop, the streets created the music and the music in turn mutated, reflected and popularized the culture. Unfortunately, the aspects which were popularized were those that challenged the dominant system the least. In rock music that turned out to be the sex and drugs. In hip hop it turned out to be the sex, drugs and money.</i> I was a musician playing in New York around the time the "hip-hop/rap" scene started so I think the question that Ron is submitting is a bit simplistic and the birth of "hip-hop/rap" is a bit deeper than merely throwing a label like "vapid" to dismiss its origins. The whole rap/hip-hop genre was birthed by neoliberalism. Cuts to the cities especially the black community it was gave birth to hip-hop. It was the result of increasing poverty and the withdrawal of resources from the black community. As a musician playing in street bands we could not get gig because as the cities were losing its industrial base, the dwindling bar & club owner could not afford to pay a band. It was much easier for them to pay a DJ with a crate of records to provided the music and entertainment. In addition, one of the first areas that schools with dwindling budgets cut were their music programs. You have a whole generation of especially minority students who never even picked up what are considered musical instruments. In fact these inventive folks made the turntable, mixers, the record scratch, and their rhymes their musical instruments. Hip-hop, like all genres has the good and bad and some of the best rap/hip-hop performers were politcal rap performers like Public Enemy, KRS-One, and today you have Dead Prez. The real problem is the consoldation and corruption of the record and media industry that promotes the worst kind of music and media across all genres. Just like the later phenomenon of hip-hop, the streets created the music and the music in turn mutated, reflected and popularized the culture. Unfortunately, the aspects which were popularized were those that challenged the dominant system the least. In rock music that turned out to be the sex and drugs. In hip hop it turned out to be the sex, drugs and money.

I was a musician playing in New York around the time the “hip-hop/rap” scene started so I think the question that Ron is submitting is a bit simplistic and the birth of “hip-hop/rap” is a bit deeper than merely throwing a label like “vapid” to dismiss its origins.

The whole rap/hip-hop genre was birthed by neoliberalism. Cuts to the cities especially the black community it was gave birth to hip-hop. It was the result of increasing poverty and the withdrawal of resources from the black community.

As a musician playing in street bands we could not get gig because as the cities were losing its industrial base, the dwindling bar & club owner could not afford to pay a band. It was much easier for them to pay a DJ with a crate of records to provided the music and entertainment. In addition, one of the first areas that schools with dwindling budgets cut were their music programs. You have a whole generation of especially minority students who never even picked up what are considered musical instruments. In fact these inventive folks made the turntable, mixers, the record scratch, and their rhymes their musical instruments.

Hip-hop, like all genres has the good and bad and some of the best rap/hip-hop performers were politcal rap performers like Public Enemy, KRS-One, and today you have Dead Prez.

The real problem is the consoldation and corruption of the record and media industry that promotes the worst kind of music and media across all genres.

]]> By: kalidas http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/into-the-vapid-consuming-the-cultural-product/#comment-51314 kalidas Sun, 02 Aug 2009 22:16:39 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9550#comment-51314 It's human devolution, or your lying eyes.. It’s human devolution, or your lying eyes..

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/into-the-vapid-consuming-the-cultural-product/#comment-51299 Don Hawkins Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:43:46 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9550#comment-51299 Whatever the system in this age maybe unplanned. To many players looking for the answers. I could be wrong on the answers. And presto! From 5,000 years of knowledge just what answers have we found? Wait don't tell me capitalism is the best path to prosperity. So that's what we see is it prosperity. Might have forgot to smell those rose's for longer than 15 minutes. Well more and have more as the driving force the goose/Earth is cooked. Now maybe 5,000 years ago genius was needed to see this today it's at our finger tips. That part amazes me and always' will in this brave new World. Whatever the system in this age maybe unplanned. To many players looking for the answers. I could be wrong on the answers.

And presto! From 5,000 years of knowledge just what answers have we found? Wait don’t tell me capitalism is the best path to prosperity. So that’s what we see is it prosperity. Might have forgot to smell those rose’s for longer than 15 minutes. Well more and have more as the driving force the goose/Earth is cooked. Now maybe 5,000 years ago genius was needed to see this today it’s at our finger tips. That part amazes me and always’ will in this brave new World.

]]> By: bozh http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/08/into-the-vapid-consuming-the-cultural-product/#comment-51292 bozh Sun, 02 Aug 2009 15:58:48 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9550#comment-51292 in other words, we humans, being one of the best survivalists and acceptors of cultures, accept culture which the ruling class allows us to obtain. we have always accepted our culture from previous generations. At times, we wld also venerate or consider passed-down culture as holy. whereas 20K yrs ago, culture was handed down to us by our equals, who really cared for our surviving well, but from ca 10K yrs ago, we were receiving 'knowledge' from shamans and later from sacerdotal class; which further refined methods of deceiving, so that the deceivers cld enjoy prestige, veneration, power over us, and very easy living. thus, our innate and wonderful trust began to be [ab]used by one, two, three, etc., people and with time abuse got 'better' and 'better'. u want to sell a thing? Not to worry! Use a deception! Remember, it always worked; it'll work again! Watch me! want a war, constitution, 'law', 'education', etc.? No problem! First of all some solemn self-laudations; praise for our brave-noble soldiers, constitution, etc., and a big lie or lies. And presto! What did i tell you?! but haven't babylonians, russians, italians, assyrians, persians, romans done just what americans are doing? to most people this is a big secret and not because they are dumb/dishonest/uncaring but solely because they are trusting and conditioned to react to events just like pavlov's dog. so, pavlov, tolstoy, trotsky, russel, santayana, et al new this. A genius had said that it takes a genius to see the obvious. however, this is not an adequate observation. I like analogy with pavlov's dog. it is much clearer; at least to me! tnx in other words, we humans, being one of the best survivalists and acceptors of cultures, accept culture which the ruling class allows us to obtain.
we have always accepted our culture from previous generations. At times, we wld also venerate or consider passed-down culture as holy.

whereas 20K yrs ago, culture was handed down to us by our equals, who really cared for our surviving well, but from ca 10K yrs ago, we were receiving ‘knowledge’ from shamans and later from sacerdotal class; which further refined methods of deceiving, so that the deceivers cld enjoy prestige, veneration, power over us, and very easy living.

thus, our innate and wonderful trust began to be [ab]used by one, two, three, etc., people and with time abuse got ‘better’ and ‘better’.
u want to sell a thing? Not to worry! Use a deception! Remember, it always worked; it’ll work again! Watch me!
want a war, constitution, ‘law’, ‘education’, etc.? No problem! First of all some solemn self-laudations; praise for our brave-noble soldiers, constitution, etc., and a big lie or lies. And presto! What did i tell you?!

but haven’t babylonians, russians, italians, assyrians, persians, romans done just what americans are doing?
to most people this is a big secret and not because they are dumb/dishonest/uncaring but solely because they are trusting and conditioned to react to events just like pavlov’s dog.
so, pavlov, tolstoy, trotsky, russel, santayana, et al new this. A genius had said that it takes a genius to see the obvious.
however, this is not an adequate observation. I like analogy with pavlov’s dog.
it is much clearer; at least to me! tnx

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