Comments on: Twitterers Paid to Spread Israeli Propaganda

By: jack goldman

jack goldman — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:52:03 +0000

Only Hebrew affirmative action can save Jews from the coming back lash. Hebrews are tribalists like all other Middle Eastern tribes, but global. Hebrews have a religion, race, sacred text, political cause, and nation state. Jews, Hebrews, Zionists, and Israelis do what they do for the money. Getting the money provokes anti-semitism against Jews, Hebrews, Zionists, and Israelis who are not hated for their gift giving. They are hated for taking ten to twenty times what their numbers in the population justify. Only Hebrew Affirmative action can save Hebrews from the coming crisis they provoke, on purpose, to create profitable wars. It’s always only about the money. Live long and prosper.

By: B99

B99 — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:42:17 +0000

Mary – On my first trip to Israel, I picked up a Nesher Cab at the airport. He would not take me to Arab East Jerusalem but we agreed he would let me out in the ‘no-mans land’ between the two Jerusalems. I walked the rest of the way to Suleiman Street. On the way, I passed an alley where two Palestinian tots, not even waist high on me, were kicking – best they could – a football between them. Standing nearby was an IDF soldier. The ball got away and rolled to the foot of the soldier. I’m thinking, like the commercial, he’ll kick it back to the kids. But no, he picked it up and punted it high and far over a 15 foot wall. The kids had just learned their first (perhaps) lesson in Israeli cruelty. If they are alive, they are adults now, and have surely had this lesson reinforced many times over. For me, someone who had studied the history and geography of the occupation up and down, there too was a lesson. Israel’s oppression of the Palestinians, I now realized, was unique in human history in its thoroughness, from outright mass murder of civilians in their own country to denied permits, arbitrary detainment, to merest of curse words, face slaps, spitting, or in this case, putting those two little fellows in their place. It is a four-corners occupation – systematic, bureaucratic, institutional, individual, insulting, injurious, deadly, pre-meditated, and chaotic. No stone is left unturned. No Jew says this must not stand. In its thoroughness, it is unique in the annals of human oppression.

By: Mulga Mumblebrain

Mulga Mumblebrain — Sun, 26 Jul 2009 01:01:29 +0000

mary, I have personal experience of the type of violence Hedy Epstein experienced. My elderly mother was attacked by a Judeofascist some years ago, when she was in her seventies.
She had been a member of the Labor Party for decades. She and her friends at their local branch were on the Left of the NSW Labor Party. Head office, which is of the Right, and is populated by the detritus of Rightwing, Catholic, pro-US pseudo-trades unions, whose apparatchiks often defect for financial reward to the anti-Labor Right, ignored them. The process of disregarding the grass-roots in the Labor Party, which are invariably less likely to sell out than the Bosses at Head Office, has seen the Labor Party wither on the vine, in terms of membership.
At a meeting one night, my mother expressed some opinion sympathetic to the Palestinians. By no means an ‘anti-Semite’ with many old Jewish friends from growing up in Bondi, a centre of the Jewish community in Sydney, she still recognises cruelty and injustice when she sees it. Her comments provoked an attack from a new member, at his first meeting, a South African Jew, who like so many others, found living under post-apartheid rule not to his taste, and had moved to Australia.
This was not, as my mother and other witnesses told me, a matter of polite or even heated discussion. This was a huge fellow, thirty years younger than my mother, leaping to his feet and advancing on my mother while bellowing abuse. As she retreated several of the other elderly members interposed themselves to protect her, and the oaf retreated, never to be seen again.
As we see almost every day, with ‘Jewish Defence League’ attacks in France, intimidation everywhere, Mossad co-operating with Cheney’s death-squads in murders across the globe, threats of aggression against Iran (these threats are themselves war crimes)the question of Judaic rage and aggression is becoming a real problem for the world. As Hedy Epstein herself illustrates, there are still many fine Jews who believe in human solidarity and justice. But the belligerent, violent tendency in Jewry is clearly on the upsurge, and threatens political and social peace not only in their neighbourhood but world-wide.

By: mebosa ritchie

mebosa ritchie — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 16:18:35 +0000

one for you mary

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evn66J8bVQo&feature=fvst

By: mary

mary — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:57:51 +0000

As you were saying about tear gas B99. Look at the French parody of this appalling Israeli Cellcom advert which illustrates the sick and cruel mindset of the Zionists in the state of Israel. They are just laughing at their victims.

Original ad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy3wvPmej2U&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwhatreallyhappened%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded

Cellcom ad parody

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSDfVVmP2vc&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwhatreallyhappened%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded

La réponse à la publicité de la Honte de Cellcom –Israel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm-OEhNZJq4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwhatreallyhappened%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded

By: B99

B99 — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:44:55 +0000

Funny guy Jon S.- Tear gas is OK? Don’t forget that Israel has no business in Gaza – never mind tear gassing its inhabitants. If I understand you correctly, it would be OK for Palestinians to tear gas Israelis as a form of law enforcement. Or perhaps you’d see that as a hostile act.

The other gassing is nerve gas – that’s in the category of perfecting Nazi science. And I see, you call the 1948 well poisonings ‘questionable.’ I think you know that the only question is the precise details. The phosphorus gassing charge is a repeat performance – It worked so well in Lebanon that the Israelis knew it would be ideal in Gaza – an area the size of Atlanta, GA with 3 times Atlanta’s population.

Torah admonitions to kill non-Jews just may be quite in line with today’s sensibilities – and while the atheists who founded the Zionist movement and Israel’s present leaders may not believe the Torah one iota, they do understand its power to justify and rationalize, and to galvanize. These same guys ignore any references to equality – that gets in the way of a muscular Judaism.

By: dino

dino — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 10:35:10 +0000

Who really is interested to know what Torah and the more considered rabbis like Rambam,Rashi etc said about equality between Jews and Gentiles have to visit an Israeli site Daat emet where this issue and many others are presented (in English and a lot of others languages) in objective way.

By: jon s

jon s — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:30:09 +0000

B99,
Now we know that by “gassing”, you mean tear gas, used by law-enforcement all over the world and in “poisoning” you’re referring to some questionable story from 1948. For a moment there you had me worried.
The charges regarding the use of phosphorous near the civilian population in Gaza should indeed be investigated, and I think the the government was wrong in refusing to cooperate with the inqiry led by Mr. Goldstone.
I quoted the Torah in the context of the Jewish attitude toward equality. Of course the Bible contains much that can be inspirational, along with texts that are not in line with present-day sensibilities. As a non-Orthodox Jew, I can choose.
Mebosa- Using a religious argument precludes a rational discussion, which is what I’m trying to have here. If you just say “God’s will”, that’s the end of the discussion.
Plenum – You know what’s the best thing you should do? Get on a plane, fly to Israel, spend some time here, and see for yourself how much sense – or justice – or how practical is the notion that Israel will “dissolve”.
Mulga – I called you an Anti-Semite, because I think I can tell the difference between criticism of Israel’s policies and actions, and opposition to Zionism on the one hand and attacks on “The Jews” on the other, attacks framed in vile, offensive hate-filled language, attacks which repeat all the classic Anti-Semitic myths regarding “Jewish control” and include elements of the Jewish faith itself.

By: Mulga Mumblebrain

Mulga Mumblebrain — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:40:24 +0000

jon, I’m used to being vilified as an ‘anti-Semite’. It comes with the territory of criticising Israel’s gargantuan crimes against humanity, its mendacity, its sadism, its arrogance, its hypocrisy, and all these villainies when parroted by the pro-Israel Lobby. Some of those slanderous golems have even accused me of being a Holocaust denier. That coming from those who deny every crime that Israel has committed since the Zionist colonial project began.
For the record, jon, I do not hate Jews as a group, or any Jew for being a Jew. Such bigotry is not only vile, it is imbecilic. It is, however, the attitude of many Judeofascist extreme apologists for Israel, who label the Arabs, or the Moslems or the Palestinians, as a vast undifferentiated mass of wickedness and savagery. That, of course, is characteristic of psychopaths, who are prone to projection in a big way. Moreover I’ve always said, as is unarguable, that many of the bravest and most cogent critics of Israeli crimes are Israeli and diaspora Jews, who are labeled ‘self-hating Jews’ by the Judeofascists for their trouble.
If the Jews were in the position of the Palestinians, and the Palestinians the pitiless persecutors, my opinions would be the same, that is I would side with the Judaic oppressed against the Palestinian oppressor. Race or religion has nothing to do with justice and decency, not in my mind at least. If any real anti-Semites wished to repeat the Nazi Judeocide, I would oppose them will all my strength. That’s simply basic humanity, the quality utterly lacking in Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.
As for Judaism, I regard it, like all religions, but the patriarchal monotheisms in particular, as malicious nonsense, with a sprinkling of decent humanitarianism ignored by the fundamentalist zealots, who prefer delusions of superiority. I regard fundamentalists, whether Judaic, Islamic, Christian, Hindu or market capitalist, as deranged and dangerous, and, often enough, evil. As to religious belief where it does not impinge on the rights of others, that is the business of the deluded faithful. You speak of your father’s interpretation of the concept of the Jews as a ‘Chosen’ people, and, despite, if you will pardon my observation, smacking of a certain arrogance as to Jewry’s position in the universe, that opinion seems to me far less baleful than that of the fundamentalist zealots. Unfortunately as far as I can see the majority of Jews see things in the zealous way.
Need I quote Rabbi Kook the Elder as to the greater difference between the soul of a Jew and a non-Jew than there is between the soul of a non-Jew and an animal? Or the observation of countless Judaic religious authorities that killing enemy civilians is a ‘good deed’, or the concept of Judaic souls being ‘lost’ when Jews ‘marry out’. I could go on all day. Undoubtedly there are many Jews who reject ‘Chosenness’ outright, and others who see it, like your father, as a responsibility rather than an assertion of universal supremacy, but there are many, and I suspect that they are a majority, who think otherwise.
The proof of that pudding is in the eating, the forced intake of humiliation, racism, brutality and violence that the Palestinians have been forced to swallow for generations. This barbarism has been accompanied by vicious denigration, throughout the Western media that Judaic money-power does indeed, as any who sample that media swamp know, dominate to a startling degree. It has also been accompanied by the language of violent racist contempt, with Palestinians described as ‘two-legged animals’, ‘cancer’, ‘lice’, ‘drugged cockroaches’ and worse. On this very day, fanatic Jews of the fascist persuasion, the Judaic Taliban of the ‘settler’ movement, are terrorising the West Bank, in the cruelest and most craven manner, while guarded by Israeli force of arms. Do you reject these fascists? Or do you support them out of tribal loyalty?
As far as I’m concerned jon, I judge every regime, every country, by its actions, not its self-serving propaganda. And in that light, at least according to my criteria of humanity, justice and kindheartedness, Israel fails comprehensively, as do a vast bulk of its citizens, and as do Israel’s apologists throughout the West. They certainly are not alone in being judged by me, for what that’s worth, as wicked and cruel, but with Israel I fear that there is an added dimension of arrogance, and a impudent demand for acquiescence from others that I attribute to the very real effect that delusions of ‘Chosenness’ have had on the hearts and souls of the worst fraction of Jewry. Something similar happens, in my opinion, with the ‘America First’ tendency in the US, as it does amongst chauvinists, supremacists and racists everywhere. It’s just that, in my opinion, this lamentable state of affairs is most marked in relationship to Israel.

By: mary

mary — Thu, 23 Jul 2009 05:37:33 +0000

This is Hedy Epstein, who lives in St Louis, speaking about a physical attack the day before she was due to leave to join The Spirit of Humanity. She had received telephone threats after appearing on local television following Operation Cast Lead. What an inspirational lady! She lost most of her family in Auschwitz and worked in the Doctors’ trial at Nuremburg. She has spent her life fighting for justice where she sees injustice and even though she is now 85, still shows amazing spirit. She intends to join the next Free Gaza voyage in August.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60XVfEow4M0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedy_Epstein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctors%27_Trial

By: B99

B99 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:43:08 +0000

But Mebosa – You’ve already revealed yourself as a racist, so your word is bankrupt. Besides, you know as well as anyone on here that there is no god, and obviously, given the Holocaust, he’s clearly not the god of the Jews. The bottom line, however, is that notion’s of divine right went out with the advent of the Enlightenment – so allusions to god given land are worthless. We live in a state system of human-made laws. You have your state, don’t continue to abuse it or don’t be surprised if Israeli-Jews find themselves back in the Diaspora wandering why god abandoned them yet again.

By: mebosa ritchie

mebosa ritchie — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:17:36 +0000

jon,it’s very useful to quote the bible

god gave to the jews,his chosen people,the land of israel for evermore
end of story

By: brian

brian — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 20:49:26 +0000

mebosa richie…

‘protected by the israeli state,using israeli resources’

those resources belong to the palestinians…its their land

By: B99

B99 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:05:15 +0000

Jon – It is not useful to quote the Torah or Bible here. They are filled with some of the most heinous acts of barbarity ever devised by humans – and said acts are celebrated. We could say they were mere poppycock if the ramifications of them were still not felt across the world today.

By: Phil

Phil — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:02:16 +0000

being “chosen” doesn’t entail any kind of privilege in relation to other peoples, only obligations : to live an exemplary moral life, to stand up for good against evil, which, for him, meant fighting for social justice and against racism and fascism.

That’s a pretty good definition. But in that case, all people everywhere are chosen. What makes any one race or nation different?

we all know that there are Jewish extremists, chauvinists and racists, as there are among other peoples. Their brand of Judaism is by no means the dominant one.

Prime ministers and governments for decades have made it absolutely clear that their goal is racial ‘purity.’ The current PM is pushing harder than anyone to have it written into fundamental law. The foreign minister openly calls for ethnic cleansing if not genocide. Any honest observer would have to recognize that in this case, extremism and racism are unquestionably dominant.

By: B99

B99 — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:56:42 +0000

Jon – Yes, Israelis are taught propaganda in schools about Israel. Only under Ehud Barack did they beginn to be correct the curriculum based in the obviously contrary findings of Israel’s “New Historians” -but that has been nixed since by both Sharon and Netanyahu. Besides, Israeli maps show an Israel whose borders in the direction of Jordan and Syria – and in some cases Lebanon – are nonexistant. In other words, Israel still claims ever more Arab lands. So most Israeli Jews grow up on fabrications designed to instill both a false sense of historical pride and a fear of attack from without. It serves the purpose of keeping their population on a war footing.
But the gas attacks and poisoned wells are public knowledge. I’ve presented material on this site. Tear gassing Palestinians is routinely done, and we all know about the phosporus bombs used on Gazans (and Lebanese). And Israel tests its latest nerve gas concoction on Gazans as well. Those who don’t die feel like shit for weeks.

The poisoned wells of 1948 – would you like the details?

By: Plenum

Plenum — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:26:59 +0000

…the best news from Israel that I can think of is that the will dissolve itself… that it will voluntarily, for the betterment of the world, cease to exist… that it will ask various countries to absorb the present Israel/Jewish population declare that within ten years the country will revert ownership back to the Palestinians as in 1945, etc… that it be allowed to transport its industries to acceptable countries… that it will pay compensation to victims for its illegal occupation… that it will safely disassemble all nuclear weapons and destroy all prisons… and much more.

By: bozh

bozh — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:09:53 +0000

‘jews’ being different means what then? ‘Jew’ are first of all humans and only after that pious people, who posses an apriori ‘knowledge’ [guesses], just like buddhists, bahais, christians, and moslems.
so far i see no differences btwn the various people who warship an unseeable phantom.
‘jewish’ brains, legs, arms, digestive sytems, bloods appear the same or similar to that of everybody else.
so how are ‘jews’ different? They are, methinks, merely miseducated to believe [guess] that they are different.
and once deluded, it is nigh impossible to delude off the deluded.
as an example, nazis come to mind regarding how deeply people can become delusional.
commands such as: ye shall be lenders and not borrowers; ye shall have servants and will not serve others; ye shall lead and not be lead, etc., if evaluated as true or coming from a god, wld delude a roma, uzbek, zulu, me, syrian, apache, et al.
tnx

By: jon s

jon s — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:56:36 +0000

B99,
You accuse Israelis of being ignorant, as opposed, I presume , to your being knowledgeable, meaning your ability to throw in fabrications like “poison gas” “poisoning wells” and so on.

By: jon s

jon s — Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:21:53 +0000

On being “Chosen”: Some of the contributors here on DV, especially the Anti-Semite Mulga, persistently accuse the Jews of being guilty of racist supremacism, based on the concept of “The Chosen People”. In a malicious manipulation, she likes to use Nazi-German terminology (“herrenvolk”,” ubbermenschen”,etc.).
(Mulga also claims that “the Jews” control the media, the economy, and even US-China relations -!?- and has even attacked core elements of the the Jewish faith –the Torah, the Talmud even the Jewish holidays…)
As to being “chosen”: the concept itself exists and is undeniable : observant and traditional Jews include in their prayers a blessing to God who “chose us from among the nations”. Also the well-known “Aleinu” prayer gives thanks for creating us different, “and our destiny is not the same” [as that of other nations].
However – and this is the main point – “different” doesn’t necessarily mean “superior”. In the Bible, Abraham is chosen to be the father of the nation, but God doesn’t make him King of the World. Instead, he is required to sacrifice his beloved son, Isaac. No power over others , no superiority, only an agonizing sacrifice. The Torah is also quite clear on equality: “One law shall be unto him that is homeborn and unto the stranger…” (Exodus 12:49); “Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger as for the home-born” (Leviticus 24:22) , and elsewhere.
Sadly, over hundreds of years , including the 20th century, being “chosen” has meant being singled out for discrimination, persecution and annihilation.
(There’s a heart breaking Hebrew poem by Nathan Alterman , from 1942, on Jewish children , “chosen from all the children in the world ” , chosen to be murdered. I haven’t been able to locate an English translation.)
I recall a discussion I had with my father (of blessed memory) on the “Chosen People” topic. He said that being “chosen” doesn’t entail any kind of privilege in relation to other peoples, only obligations : to live an exemplary moral life, to stand up for good against evil, which, for him, meant fighting for social justice and against racism and fascism. It also entails a feeling of pride in our traditions and heritage.
Of course there are other interpretations , we all know that there are Jewish extremists, chauvinists and racists, as there are among other peoples. Their brand of Judaism is by no means the dominant one.