Neither capitalism nor socialism create or secure morality.

capatilism allows for a society to set its individuals in the midst of their own value setting with a high risk of reality to that risk and value setting. advice would be to protect the rights not th eprivileges of the masses and insure a flow of wealth to fall as well as emulate from effort and productivity.

Examples would be our checkered history. Social aims should be addressed from the morality of the people not the finances imposed by government will , which only seams to divert power to a different group that then seeks to dominate the economics of others. again not necessarily a guarantee of safety or security for all.

Socialism has the same flaws permanently etched in its history but more so in its presumption that it cleanses corruption from political intent. It does no such thing but does force compliance to the will of the few at the expense of individual social aim and decisions to survive.

I know a lot of well intended ideas and people think that socialism works on paper and that should give in preference over capitalism, however the truth is far more different.

Virtuous aims exist in all systems and a certain amount of trust that the government will impose as little debt and burden to individuals to insure choice and survival can’t be insured without civic responsibility and a desire to allow people their space to freely seek their own wealth, destiny and individual set purpose in life’s pursuits. No system can guarantee that and neither system will preserve that if the people willfully give over their individual mass power to government control.

We are seeing Carl Marxist theory that if you burden capitalism with enough well intention un affordable government mandated programs you can collapse it. To assume that socialism is a cure of this kind of destruction of worth and self destiny is a blessing is very far from the truth.

The question to ask is are the flaws of capitalism more egregious than the stifling government control and destruction of individual risk and reward a better safer alternative?

Never assume that one system over another is the cure for human frailty and moral decay. One system is designed around human forced conformity and what is perceived as an acceptable sacrifice; the peoples choice of self destiny, the other is designed around a more risky proposition that requires participation in an effort to succeed and not be left outside of the flow of success.

In simplicity; capitalism demands participation and socialism demands conformity. One sacrifices the individual whilst the other heralds and rejoices in the individual. There are risks in both, moral cures in neither, awareness and struggle in both; it all depends on who you want to carry the load of the elite and how you want economic, or individual power gained and lost.

and if you approve of america as an empire, what may i call that? And if you approve of US as country, aren’t you also a nationalist?
so, am i now for croatian independence? Yes, i am. And in spite of the fact that ab. half of the croatiain pop is or is becoming fascist.

but please try to say s’mthing next time you respond to what i say. However, i may have enough of your mainstreaming. Much of what you say to me is composed of condemnations.
i gave you a warning: u get one more insult. This one, the second one is the last one.

Figures.

in your post, to which i am now responding, you have left out very salient ideologies or ideations: that of the three major ‘religions’ [read please: cults]
these ideations [thinkings] i evaluate as major impediments to enlightement.

the three major cults have always sided with the ruling class. And i see no way, how to change the thinking by priests.
and as long this thinking is extant, we will be always rigorously deterred in our efforts to enlighten people.

thus, US ruling class which behaves and thinks exactly like a street, biker, or planetary gang, knows that no matter how they [mis]rule, some ‘pious’ people, who may number 30mn in US, will strongly support it.

add to that ab. another 20-30 mn rabid USans, and we have at least fifty mns amers offside.
and there are people who ask, What’s zionism, rome, persia, etc? Add one more fact: last nov 98% of amers voted for warfare; against healthcare, free higher education, right to be informed.
as i said many times before one needs to cast widest look posible; leave no stone unturned, in order to find causes for a, broadly, master-serf structure of society.
the structures used be to master-slave. And the tendecy now is to go back as it was just centuries ago.
leaving ‘religions’, shamanism, high priests out in one’s evaluation and predictive skill, one does not obtain an elucidation at given point in time.
a caveat. I am stating that i do not blame or condemn in any way ‘pious’ people; they too are victimized by clero-political class of people. tnx

Deadbeat, I think that perhaps you like negative reinforcement and, with all of your disparaging remarks about my various writings, I wonder the reason that you bother to read them at all. They are, apparently, a waste of your time and I have no need to justify my stands, rationale, motivation, nor any other matters to you. So if you like to argue and be generally contentious, you’ll have to find another sparing partner in that I, frankly, have insufficient time and no inclination to engage in an inane dialectical role with you with ultimately no definitive conclusions generated.

On another note, many people, unfortunately, are contented to be largely enslaved by the demands, regulations and programs put forth by the ruling elites as long as they have a modicum of creature comforts and distractions (such as silly TV programs, meals at which they can overeat to their hearts’ content, sports games and other forms of passing entertainments to amuse them). Meanwhile, their legal rights and overall welfare are slowly being eroded since they were not vigilant about the bigger, more important matters.

Simultaneously, they live in the illusion that they are free agents and masters of their own fates, especially as they get bamboozled by the mainstream media definitions of events. What a shame!

So, perhaps John Adams is right!…

“[D]emocracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy, such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man’s life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the execrable cruelty of one or a very few.” – John Adams, An Essay on Man’s Lust for Power, August 29, 1763

At the same time, the landscape of the world and lifestyle choices will definitely change in major ways after resource deletions are more widespread. Those who are not prematurely crushed in the collapse will still have options, but they will certainly be different than many of the currently available ones.

Meanwhile, some people relish the looming breakdown as is described by Bill Moyers in “Battlefield Earth” at http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/20666/ and an excellent (although long) writing – that shows about the nature of our problems relative to the people who seek out domination, power, wealth and resources for themselves at all costs – is at this link: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/148141-The-Trick-of-the-Psychopath-s-Trade-Make-Us-Believe-that-Evil-Comes-from-Others. I can’t urge anyone enough to take some time to flit through this evaluation as it is excellent in many regards and provides, overall, a reasonable explanation for many of the happenings of major import in the world.

The Trick of the Psychopath’s Trade: Make Us Believe that Evil Comes from Others

Three separate excerpts:

“When psychopaths are the policy makers in government and the CEOs of big business, the way they think and reason – their ‘morality’ – becomes the common culture and ‘morality’ of the population over which they preside. When this happens, the mind of the population is infected in the way a pathogen infects a physical body. The only way to protect ourselves against this pathological thinking is to inoculate ourselves against it, and that is done by learning as much as possible about the nature of psychopathy and its influence on us. Essentially, this particular ‘disease’ thrives in an environment where its very existence is denied, and this denial is planned and deliberate.”

“Yes. Look at the United States. The two parties are mirror images of each other. To preserve the image of democracy, both are needed, both serve the same masters. But there are no leaders in the US who are standing up and speaking about the genocide of the Palestinians. The deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are passed over in silence. There is no room for conscience in the US government, in either party, and the control of the press, not to mention other means such as blackmail and threats, ensure that those who might speak up, don’t [ which I covered in my 'Who's a low level terrorist? Are you?' piece - Em].”

“SC: Łobaczewski has studied these people not from a political point of view, but from a psychological point of view. He has managed to understand how it happens that mad people, ideologues, and repressive powers, in spite of their inhumanity, can obtain the support of large populations. Does not everyone have a perverse/pathological basis, periods when they pass through a perverse/pathological life?

“Henry: First of all, it needs to be said that “mad people” don’t need the support of large populations, only a powerful minority that can both “drive” the population and control it. Look at the polls in the United States. Bush has been hovering around 30% popularity for years – and that is the population as a whole. But because he is backed by a very powerful minority, the people who own the media, the arms industry and their military supporters, the oil companies, among others, popular discontent doesn’t matter. And as long as Bush’s politics don’t overtly affect the ordinary American negatively, they don’t care enough to do anything about it.

“Laura: In the U.S. – and elsewhere in the world – even the most oppressed and unfairly treated people are easily controlled by fear, by threats to their affordable materialism: entertainment, sports, gambling, so on. Even the failure of schools, medical care, social safety nets, do not drive people to really question what is going on. It is, as Aldous Huxley wrote, a scientific dictatorship: bread and circuses. In short, most Americans are aware of their oppression, and express this in polls, but those in power have successfully drugged them with a plethora of distractions – fear and pleasure – sufficient to keep them under control.

“Henry: There is the carrot and the stick. As long as people can continue living in the illusion, they will do so. When the illusion starts to crack, then the stick comes in.

“Laura: People are afraid of making waves for fear of losing what they have, of losing their peace, of having to exert effort to resist. After all, it does take all their time to keep the illusion going, they must slave daily to keep the SUV from being repossessed, and they want to have time for the football game on Saturday.

“Henry: They also figure that Bush only has a couple of years left anyway. The system will take care of itself. Łobaczewski’s book shows us why this is an extremely naïve way of thinking. The system that is in place is a pathological system that is at odds in a very profound way with the being or nature of most people. People of conscience are being ruled by people with no conscience. This fact is the primary injustice and is the basis for the other ills of society. Laura: For many years this system has been covert because there were still people in high positions with conscience, but over time, they have all been replaced or disposed of in one way or another, and now the pathology of the system is out in the open, but nobody cares. If you look back over the history of the past fifty years or so, you will find that nearly every public figure who has died tragically was one who had conscience, concern for people, and influence enough to make waves against the pathological types.

“Henry: The second part of your question is very important, because it is this idea that we are all somehow perverse or pathological in some ways, that we all have a shadow side as Jung put it, that serves as a major prop to the pathocratic system and makes it possible for psychopaths to hide in the general population. We have been convinced that we are all just animals and that each of us is capable of becoming a Hitler or a Bush or a Mengele, given the right circumstances. We buy into this because we have all done things in our lives for which we are ashamed, for which we feel a sense of remorse. We know those thoughts that come to us in moments of heated emotion, thoughts we wouldn’t want anyone else to know or to hear. We sense that we do have this shadow side, a part of ourselves of which we aren’t proud. Because we feel this sense of shame and remorse about this aspect of ourselves, we project onto others that they have the same capacity. This projection is where we make the fatal mistake.

“There are two issues this raises. First, there is a world of difference between someone who, in the heat of an argument with a significant other, for example, loses control and physically or psychologically abuses that person, and someone who coldly, with calculation and forethought, carries out the same thing. The acts are wrong in both cases. I am not trying to diminish the abuse done in a moment of emotion. But that same person, who loses control momentarily, would be unable to think through and coldly plan out the same act. Something inside of him or her would recoil. In the psychopath, that voice of conscience does not exist. Psychopaths are capable of plotting out the genocide of a people…”

From a practicing clinical psychologist who read several sections that I shared with some associates of mine:

“Absolutely correct! For Clinton are good examples of ‘successful’ psychopaths. There was a major researcher in this area that I made students read about 30 years ago:

“The Neurotic Organization: Diagnosing and Changing Counterproductive Styles of Management by Manfred F. R. Kets de Vries and Danny Miller (Hardcover – Aug 28, 1984) You may want to read the book. Another major researcher is Robert Hare: Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us by Robert D. Hare (Paperback – Jan 8, 1999) and finally: The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout All these are excellent books on psychopathology…”

Wanda Woodward, also, covers this topic and environmental problems:

The Psychopathology Of Male Psyche By Wanda M. Woodward
By Wanda M. Woodward. 21 March, 2008. Countercurrents.org ….. Wanda M. Woodward. Psychotherapist and Author: The Anatomy of the Soul: An Authentic …
http://www.countercurrents.org/woodward210308.htm – Cached – Similar

Twenty Nine Reasons People Need To Pull Their Heads Out Of The …
By Wanda Marie Woodward. 17 May, 2008. Countercurrents.org. When money speaks, the truth keeps silent. Russian Proverb …
http://www.countercurrents.org/woodward170508.htm – Cached – Similar

Masculine Pathology: A World Out Of Control Ruled By Men Who Are …
By Wanda Marie Woodward. 03 June, 2008. Countercurrents.org …… Wanda Marie Woodward, M.S. Psychotherapist and Author: The Anatomy of the Soul: An …
http://www.countercurrents.org/wanda030608.htm – Cached – Similar

All the same, there are, thankfully, quite a few of us who do not ideologically “fit” with the ways that assorted programs (economic, environmental, social, etc.) are currently set up and to where they are moving. Further, there are several creative and successful ways around them as are discussed in sections of http://site.www.umb.edu/faculty/…hEd/4- index.htm.

In a similar vein, I’m, certainly, no fan of our present capitalistic models as set up, as is shown in a number of my writings like The Ugly Face Of Capitalism: A Blight On The World By Emily … (www.countercurrents.org/spence140807.htm),. Even so, their effects are not hardly as devastating in some of the Norwegian countries due to other offsetting influences.

All considered, some people, thankfully, are not readily corruptible. They certainly do not seek to fulfill the objectives of the Machiavellians.

In relation, Lawrence Kohlberg sets out the stages of morality rather well if one wants to note about one model for ethical development in humans. So he might be worthwhile to check out on online if one is curious about this subject.

As to the “charitable organizations.” Ah, it’s business there, too – big business. At last look, the American Cancer Society, for example, was worth more than a billion dollars in properties and investments, etc…
Virtually every major orgainzation or governmental bureaucracy in this country – and throughout the world – is organized to mantain, and whenever possible, to enhance, the position of those with great wealth and power.
Whenever we imagine that some group, business, organization, or governmental agency is actually trying to improve the lives of ordinary people, we’ve almost certainly been conned…

Well Emily so far what you wrote and wrote well is not going to change. Just the climate change bill looks to be in trouble that does little to solve the problem. That’s called stupidity. For me to watch this idiot’s try to bring the system back to normal is nothing more than stupidity high stupidity. I just made that up. Still time two million to start Capital one voice calm at peace. Think of this as kind of a war. Hay what about those temperatures in the Mid West well think short term like ten years, stupidity.