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	<title>Comments on: Teachable Moments Require Willing Learners</title>
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	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: dave billings</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51847</link>
		<dc:creator>dave billings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51847</guid>
		<description>Add to the discussion of racism, Obama and the signs of the times.
Who ever does not have God in their life has nothing to fear but getting caught.  If we could go back in time and stand on the bible truth this country was founded on then things would surely get better.  When I was young I hated the blue laws and bible beating religious people.  All I cared only about was myself. Drinking and partying like their was no tomorrow. Mind set was carreer, work hard play hard and answer to no one.  My life passed me by like a vapor and today  I am the old guy.  No longer foolish.  Our children our now paying for the choices we are making.  It&#039;s no longer a race of people that&#039;s oppressed.  Even the Federal Government is going broke and poor Obama must find ways to make things work. Help/Live No Help/Die! We should stop the bickering and take a stand. Not in anger.. 
Tired of the God Bless America... How about America Bless God by putting back the things that were taken away.  If God &amp; the Bible offends you then go somewhere else.  Jesus first others second and ourselves last.  Time is running short and you never know what tomorrow may bring. http://www.greatdreams.com/2012.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add to the discussion of racism, Obama and the signs of the times.<br />
Who ever does not have God in their life has nothing to fear but getting caught.  If we could go back in time and stand on the bible truth this country was founded on then things would surely get better.  When I was young I hated the blue laws and bible beating religious people.  All I cared only about was myself. Drinking and partying like their was no tomorrow. Mind set was carreer, work hard play hard and answer to no one.  My life passed me by like a vapor and today  I am the old guy.  No longer foolish.  Our children our now paying for the choices we are making.  It&#8217;s no longer a race of people that&#8217;s oppressed.  Even the Federal Government is going broke and poor Obama must find ways to make things work. Help/Live No Help/Die! We should stop the bickering and take a stand. Not in anger..<br />
Tired of the God Bless America&#8230; How about America Bless God by putting back the things that were taken away.  If God &amp; the Bible offends you then go somewhere else.  Jesus first others second and ourselves last.  Time is running short and you never know what tomorrow may bring. <a href="http://www.greatdreams.com/2012.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.greatdreams.com/2012.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: lichen</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51538</link>
		<dc:creator>lichen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 02:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51538</guid>
		<description>Everyone has their own issues, their own deficiencies and advantages in relation to others.  To claim that your own issues and disadvantages in our extremely unequal society are more important, in fact the only important and recognizable issue is ridiculous, is bound to create nothing but animosity and the opposite of solidarity.  I for instance, as a homosexual certainly am not overtly &quot;priveleged&quot; wherever I go, as it&#039;s always been obvious, and people of all races and sexes have insulted and discriminated against me.  

When you are ready to move to a society where everyone is equal and everyone&#039;s issues and caveats are addressed and everyone has their rights (including essential human rights to housing, education, healthcare, healthy food, clean water) addressed, then good.  Otherwise it is just noise, and when you look in the mirror, you have a thousand different types of &quot;privileges&quot; over other people waiting to be recognized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone has their own issues, their own deficiencies and advantages in relation to others.  To claim that your own issues and disadvantages in our extremely unequal society are more important, in fact the only important and recognizable issue is ridiculous, is bound to create nothing but animosity and the opposite of solidarity.  I for instance, as a homosexual certainly am not overtly &#8220;priveleged&#8221; wherever I go, as it&#8217;s always been obvious, and people of all races and sexes have insulted and discriminated against me.  </p>
<p>When you are ready to move to a society where everyone is equal and everyone&#8217;s issues and caveats are addressed and everyone has their rights (including essential human rights to housing, education, healthcare, healthy food, clean water) addressed, then good.  Otherwise it is just noise, and when you look in the mirror, you have a thousand different types of &#8220;privileges&#8221; over other people waiting to be recognized.</p>
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		<title>By: joed</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51535</link>
		<dc:creator>joed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51535</guid>
		<description>&quot;White Privilege is not the same as &quot;White Supremacy&quot;
white privilege is the day to day functioning of amerikan society.
a white guy and a black guy enter walmart at the same time, which guy will security follow around?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;White Privilege is not the same as &#8220;White Supremacy&#8221;<br />
white privilege is the day to day functioning of amerikan society.<br />
a white guy and a black guy enter walmart at the same time, which guy will security follow around?</p>
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		<title>By: Austin Home Search</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51502</link>
		<dc:creator>Austin Home Search</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51502</guid>
		<description>It is unfortunately that many in our country hold on to the horrible legacy of the white supremacists.  With an African American president, a majority of our citizens have made the choice to leave that prejudice behind has plagued our country.   However, there are still those pockets of the country that refuse to let go.   As we enter into this new era, with new responsibilities for each citizen, with a new president, and without a clear future for our country, we all need to worry about the things that matter, like the economy and our families, and put aside superficial difference that mean nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is unfortunately that many in our country hold on to the horrible legacy of the white supremacists.  With an African American president, a majority of our citizens have made the choice to leave that prejudice behind has plagued our country.   However, there are still those pockets of the country that refuse to let go.   As we enter into this new era, with new responsibilities for each citizen, with a new president, and without a clear future for our country, we all need to worry about the things that matter, like the economy and our families, and put aside superficial difference that mean nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51157</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 22:32:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51157</guid>
		<description>Hopeless</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hopeless</p>
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		<title>By: joed</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51146</link>
		<dc:creator>joed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51146</guid>
		<description>fine writing there max.  except for one thing--i dont say those things nor anything like those things.  now your making stuff up.
but i do like your style.
max ive heard your words many times over from many people.  it is a dodge to get out of simply aknowledging your white privilege.  you dont have to be or do anything about it just simple acknowlegement is enough--thats all.  you dont have to feel anything or do or expect anything. just simply acknowledge your white privilege
i am white and therefore privileged in amerika!  thats all.  
like my real friend really said to me,  &quot;...white privilege is an advatage for me, why would i want to give up an advantage!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fine writing there max.  except for one thing&#8211;i dont say those things nor anything like those things.  now your making stuff up.<br />
but i do like your style.<br />
max ive heard your words many times over from many people.  it is a dodge to get out of simply aknowledging your white privilege.  you dont have to be or do anything about it just simple acknowlegement is enough&#8211;thats all.  you dont have to feel anything or do or expect anything. just simply acknowledge your white privilege<br />
i am white and therefore privileged in amerika!  thats all.<br />
like my real friend really said to me,  &#8220;&#8230;white privilege is an advatage for me, why would i want to give up an advantage!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51147</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:29:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51147</guid>
		<description>Civilian is a military term for non-target people in a war-zone.  Targets and civilians.

Citizens are the people in a society that contribute to all things that make society.  Citizens are valuable, good, and are the reason for any office in the first place.

There is a nuance with the words, fellow citizens.  Language is powerful.

Peace,
Melissa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Civilian is a military term for non-target people in a war-zone.  Targets and civilians.</p>
<p>Citizens are the people in a society that contribute to all things that make society.  Citizens are valuable, good, and are the reason for any office in the first place.</p>
<p>There is a nuance with the words, fellow citizens.  Language is powerful.</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Melissa</p>
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		<title>By: B99</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51145</link>
		<dc:creator>B99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51145</guid>
		<description>Max - Really, do you think this is about individuals?  You, who knows the history of racism so well?  I&#039;m talking about social controls, the sweep of US history at a population scale far above whether Joe-Shmo gets privileges (can you possibly  take the &#039;d&#039; out of your spelling of that word?), I&#039;m talking about institutionalized racism inculcated into all populations including immigrants.  If you remember, there was a legal, if temporary, category in Apartheid South Africa called &#039;honorary white.&#039;  It was given to visiting dignitaries, etc., like the Chinese ambassador.  That&#039;s something like what Blacks who have made it get in America.  When that shield is down, they are just another nigger.  Of course, nothing is cut and dried, because race and class are interwoven - so someone like OJ Simpson can buy his way out of killing white people.  But the treatment of Simpson is not a guide to race in America.

The biggest privilege whites have is that of not having to think about being white.  It makes them regular - all else is the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max &#8211; Really, do you think this is about individuals?  You, who knows the history of racism so well?  I&#8217;m talking about social controls, the sweep of US history at a population scale far above whether Joe-Shmo gets privileges (can you possibly  take the &#8216;d&#8217; out of your spelling of that word?), I&#8217;m talking about institutionalized racism inculcated into all populations including immigrants.  If you remember, there was a legal, if temporary, category in Apartheid South Africa called &#8216;honorary white.&#8217;  It was given to visiting dignitaries, etc., like the Chinese ambassador.  That&#8217;s something like what Blacks who have made it get in America.  When that shield is down, they are just another nigger.  Of course, nothing is cut and dried, because race and class are interwoven &#8211; so someone like OJ Simpson can buy his way out of killing white people.  But the treatment of Simpson is not a guide to race in America.</p>
<p>The biggest privilege whites have is that of not having to think about being white.  It makes them regular &#8211; all else is the other.</p>
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		<title>By: joed</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51144</link>
		<dc:creator>joed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:18:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51144</guid>
		<description>and still i get no  comment about the prison population problem in amerika.  
why are there soooo many blacks in the amerikan prison population relative to civilian population?!
because blacks are not able to be moral?
black are a sub-specie of humans ?
blacks are not inteligent enough to stay out of trouble?
the system is stacked against blacks?
this is such a glaring huge, obvious real problem (for blacks) so why is it not talked about.  because it is not a  white problem?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and still i get no  comment about the prison population problem in amerika.<br />
why are there soooo many blacks in the amerikan prison population relative to civilian population?!<br />
because blacks are not able to be moral?<br />
black are a sub-specie of humans ?<br />
blacks are not inteligent enough to stay out of trouble?<br />
the system is stacked against blacks?<br />
this is such a glaring huge, obvious real problem (for blacks) so why is it not talked about.  because it is not a  white problem?</p>
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		<title>By: joed</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51142</link>
		<dc:creator>joed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51142</guid>
		<description>deadbeat, you make very interesting political comment and i think that those who profess anticapitalist ideas would be the first to aknowledge their white privilege status and use their knowledge to further ideas and ways of overcoming their elite masters.  but, if that were going to happen it would have at least gotten off the ground by now.  the masters are the best at creating chaos and derision and confusion.  
&quot;the masters make the rules for the wisemen and the fools&quot;
   ---bob dylan
but that doesnt  mean we cant, as individuals, do our best to overcome the nonsense and crap we were taught as young people. each day is a  struggle for me to at least be aware of my white privilege and to not act and react as a white privileged human.
or something like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>deadbeat, you make very interesting political comment and i think that those who profess anticapitalist ideas would be the first to aknowledge their white privilege status and use their knowledge to further ideas and ways of overcoming their elite masters.  but, if that were going to happen it would have at least gotten off the ground by now.  the masters are the best at creating chaos and derision and confusion.<br />
&#8220;the masters make the rules for the wisemen and the fools&#8221;<br />
   &#8212;bob dylan<br />
but that doesnt  mean we cant, as individuals, do our best to overcome the nonsense and crap we were taught as young people. each day is a  struggle for me to at least be aware of my white privilege and to not act and react as a white privileged human.<br />
or something like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51140</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51140</guid>
		<description>I have a friend, let&#039;s call him Oscar. He&#039;s not a real friend, an acquaintence but thinks of himself as an honest person with moral goals and a dog that loves him dearly, the tail wags, that&#039;s how he knows that he (Oscar that is) is loved. But Oscar has a problem he knows joed. joed says that Oscar would be ok if he&#039;d just own up to the fact that he&#039;s a white man and therefore has special priviledges.

He should give those priviledges a good hard look and start to reconsider his life and what his priviledge has brought him in this great land of ours (the United States of America). Oscar never thought about priviledge before, let alone that he had some, more than, according to joed, African American&#039;s even the fellow in the White House has less priviledge than him! Ohhhh myyyyy. That&#039;s stunning.

So, what should Oscar do? It&#039;s like he&#039;s just found out he&#039;s won the lottery and the checks in the mail, and he needs to figure out what to do with the money, once deposited. Should he buy things, or invest? No he should give it away...make the lives of others better...richer...create a foundation of priviledge and provide credit to people in need of....well...priviledge. One person one share of priviledge credit...it&#039;s the American way!

Oscar did just that. He&#039;s a happy man with his dog who loves him and the priviledge he shares through his foundation.

End of story</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a friend, let&#8217;s call him Oscar. He&#8217;s not a real friend, an acquaintence but thinks of himself as an honest person with moral goals and a dog that loves him dearly, the tail wags, that&#8217;s how he knows that he (Oscar that is) is loved. But Oscar has a problem he knows joed. joed says that Oscar would be ok if he&#8217;d just own up to the fact that he&#8217;s a white man and therefore has special priviledges.</p>
<p>He should give those priviledges a good hard look and start to reconsider his life and what his priviledge has brought him in this great land of ours (the United States of America). Oscar never thought about priviledge before, let alone that he had some, more than, according to joed, African American&#8217;s even the fellow in the White House has less priviledge than him! Ohhhh myyyyy. That&#8217;s stunning.</p>
<p>So, what should Oscar do? It&#8217;s like he&#8217;s just found out he&#8217;s won the lottery and the checks in the mail, and he needs to figure out what to do with the money, once deposited. Should he buy things, or invest? No he should give it away&#8230;make the lives of others better&#8230;richer&#8230;create a foundation of priviledge and provide credit to people in need of&#8230;.well&#8230;priviledge. One person one share of priviledge credit&#8230;it&#8217;s the American way!</p>
<p>Oscar did just that. He&#8217;s a happy man with his dog who loves him and the priviledge he shares through his foundation.</p>
<p>End of story</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51137</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51137</guid>
		<description>B99 can you not answer the simple question posed? Are you saying that if you are African American you cannot be priviledged?

If I were an oversensitive person, I&#039;d say your comments are racist...this be &quot;kind&quot; to African Americans is belittling and down right nausiating.

You think you have priviledges that African Americans (without exception don&#039;t) and that they, African Americans have no priviledges?

What are these priviledges? (Plural please and not just the cops won&#039;t slam your head to the ground if your walking on the &quot;wrong side of town&quot;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B99 can you not answer the simple question posed? Are you saying that if you are African American you cannot be priviledged?</p>
<p>If I were an oversensitive person, I&#8217;d say your comments are racist&#8230;this be &#8220;kind&#8221; to African Americans is belittling and down right nausiating.</p>
<p>You think you have priviledges that African Americans (without exception don&#8217;t) and that they, African Americans have no priviledges?</p>
<p>What are these priviledges? (Plural please and not just the cops won&#8217;t slam your head to the ground if your walking on the &#8220;wrong side of town&#8221;.)</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51135</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51135</guid>
		<description>joed, patience please,
US is about to go for siberia. By the time US get&#039;s part of it;  or russians sell parts of it to japanese-americans, it&#039;ll be just right for blacks.
and, no more blacks in america.
blacks wld still be loked dwn on even tho whites wldn&#039;t be here had not blacks  endured scorching sun.
Had they known what awaited them, they wld have done the right thing and en masse drowned in tanganyica, chad, or victoria lakes.

but it is not to late for all pals to drown in three-meter wide and two km long gazan ocean. Iraqis cld do that in either the tigris or euphrates.
This way, present iraqis and pal&#039;ns,  wldn&#039;t give birth to new untermenschen to serve supranatural  &#039;jews&#039;.
but people never learn!
by the way, i am not going to drown self; i am no longer of kissing age.
tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>joed, patience please,<br />
US is about to go for siberia. By the time US get&#8217;s part of it;  or russians sell parts of it to japanese-americans, it&#8217;ll be just right for blacks.<br />
and, no more blacks in america.<br />
blacks wld still be loked dwn on even tho whites wldn&#8217;t be here had not blacks  endured scorching sun.<br />
Had they known what awaited them, they wld have done the right thing and en masse drowned in tanganyica, chad, or victoria lakes.</p>
<p>but it is not to late for all pals to drown in three-meter wide and two km long gazan ocean. Iraqis cld do that in either the tigris or euphrates.<br />
This way, present iraqis and pal&#8217;ns,  wldn&#8217;t give birth to new untermenschen to serve supranatural  &#8216;jews&#8217;.<br />
but people never learn!<br />
by the way, i am not going to drown self; i am no longer of kissing age.<br />
tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51126</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:05:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51126</guid>
		<description>Deadbeat there can&#039;t be &quot;solidarity&quot; if Whites are priviledged and African Americans are not.

Who gave you or me priviledge? Where is this handed out and how do you keep it?

I&#039;m not wealthy. All my work is without pay and is dedicated to community. I&#039;m able to subsist on a meager exchange. 

I can&#039;t give &quot;priviledge&quot; to someone; nor do I want to. If a police officer stops me, I don&#039;t know what he may or may not do. He&#039;s packing, I&#039;m not. He&#039;s got authority to use the gun. He&#039;s the law.

Saying someone has some kind of yet to be shown, priviledge because of color and that we should, as B99 say, remind ourselves (whites) that we &quot;have&quot; this thing called priviledge is pure...pointlessness and counterproductive. 

Solidarity is not based on a colonial mind-set of priviledge. What B99 is saying, in so many words, is that there is a White Man&#039;s Burden and that burden is PRIVIEDGE. Franz Fanon would have a field day with this upsidedown liberal (aka B99) talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deadbeat there can&#8217;t be &#8220;solidarity&#8221; if Whites are priviledged and African Americans are not.</p>
<p>Who gave you or me priviledge? Where is this handed out and how do you keep it?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not wealthy. All my work is without pay and is dedicated to community. I&#8217;m able to subsist on a meager exchange. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t give &#8220;priviledge&#8221; to someone; nor do I want to. If a police officer stops me, I don&#8217;t know what he may or may not do. He&#8217;s packing, I&#8217;m not. He&#8217;s got authority to use the gun. He&#8217;s the law.</p>
<p>Saying someone has some kind of yet to be shown, priviledge because of color and that we should, as B99 say, remind ourselves (whites) that we &#8220;have&#8221; this thing called priviledge is pure&#8230;pointlessness and counterproductive. </p>
<p>Solidarity is not based on a colonial mind-set of priviledge. What B99 is saying, in so many words, is that there is a White Man&#8217;s Burden and that burden is PRIVIEDGE. Franz Fanon would have a field day with this upsidedown liberal (aka B99) talk.</p>
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		<title>By: joed</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51125</link>
		<dc:creator>joed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51125</guid>
		<description>i have a white, educated, “liberal” friend that told me he likes his white privilige, “it’s an advantage, why would i want to give it up”. this person loves his children and his job and tries to be a moral person. but he just cant/wont see the suffering caused by his white privilige.
to see that suffering doesnt mean he has to suffer or feel guilt or feel anything about his white privilege.  i just ask that he be aware of it.  but asking just for the awareness is too much and i just cant figure out why 99.999% of white people i try to talk with about this cant even admit that white privilege exists.  
white privilege is not  &quot;white supremacy&quot; or &quot;white power&quot;  or those sort of violent  ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i have a white, educated, “liberal” friend that told me he likes his white privilige, “it’s an advantage, why would i want to give it up”. this person loves his children and his job and tries to be a moral person. but he just cant/wont see the suffering caused by his white privilige.<br />
to see that suffering doesnt mean he has to suffer or feel guilt or feel anything about his white privilege.  i just ask that he be aware of it.  but asking just for the awareness is too much and i just cant figure out why 99.999% of white people i try to talk with about this cant even admit that white privilege exists.<br />
white privilege is not  &#8220;white supremacy&#8221; or &#8220;white power&#8221;  or those sort of violent  ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51124</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51124</guid>
		<description>B99,
Just one question (really, a summation of what I&#039;ve said): are you saying that if you are an African American you cannot be priviledged?

Just answer that simple question if you would.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B99,<br />
Just one question (really, a summation of what I&#8217;ve said): are you saying that if you are an African American you cannot be priviledged?</p>
<p>Just answer that simple question if you would.</p>
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		<title>By: B99</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51123</link>
		<dc:creator>B99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51123</guid>
		<description>Amen, Deadbeat and Joed.  Max&#039;s problem is not so much his views, but his quick umbrage - he takes someone&#039;s differing opinion as a personal attack and starts clawing. 
But you are totally correct.   The only way for the working class to succeed in getting something approximating its just deserts is to actively seek solidarity with blacks (and now Latinos as well).  Separately - and that is the history of social control in America - the working class will not only fail, but whites will make every effort to protect the few privileges they have over blacks and Latinos.  Only together, in a big push to re-organize labor, can change come.

The purpose of understanding white privilege is to enable acts of solidarity by whites, to ask your dry-cleaner to consider hiring an African-American, or to recommend a black company get a contract, or to tell a white person that a racial joke is not OK even if that outgroup is not around.  When a cabbie says something about jig-a-boos, you reply; &quot;Oh, you must think I am white.&quot;  These are not random acts of (silly) kindness, but concerted efforts to realize what whiteness affords the individual and to establish a pattern of solidarity with its victims.  The effort is not only to end racism in America, but is an essential part of getting the working class its due.  And that means of course, taking every opportunity to discuss race with the white working class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen, Deadbeat and Joed.  Max&#8217;s problem is not so much his views, but his quick umbrage &#8211; he takes someone&#8217;s differing opinion as a personal attack and starts clawing.<br />
But you are totally correct.   The only way for the working class to succeed in getting something approximating its just deserts is to actively seek solidarity with blacks (and now Latinos as well).  Separately &#8211; and that is the history of social control in America &#8211; the working class will not only fail, but whites will make every effort to protect the few privileges they have over blacks and Latinos.  Only together, in a big push to re-organize labor, can change come.</p>
<p>The purpose of understanding white privilege is to enable acts of solidarity by whites, to ask your dry-cleaner to consider hiring an African-American, or to recommend a black company get a contract, or to tell a white person that a racial joke is not OK even if that outgroup is not around.  When a cabbie says something about jig-a-boos, you reply; &#8220;Oh, you must think I am white.&#8221;  These are not random acts of (silly) kindness, but concerted efforts to realize what whiteness affords the individual and to establish a pattern of solidarity with its victims.  The effort is not only to end racism in America, but is an essential part of getting the working class its due.  And that means of course, taking every opportunity to discuss race with the white working class.</p>
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		<title>By: dariusk</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51121</link>
		<dc:creator>dariusk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51121</guid>
		<description>Some astute observations, but I would like to add this: Not many are aware that the original American colonists came here, not of their own free will, but were kidnapped and brought to this country in chains. 

From 1609 until the early 1800s, between one half and two thirds of all the White colonists who came to the New World came as slaves. White slaves cleared the forests, drained the swamps, built the roads, sweated in the fields, and died like flies in hellish factories. Owned like property, they had no rights nor recourse to the law. Fugitive slave laws applied to them just as to Blacks if they should flee their masters. Black slaves were expensive, and though at times cruelly used, were not often used beyond the limits of human endurance. That would have been a waste of a costly investment. White slaves, however, consisting of the poor and unwanted “surplus population” of Britain, were available for nearly nothing, just a few pence for a thug to billyclub them and shanghai them aboard a westward-bound vessel. Thus they were expendable.

The word “slave” itself is derived from the word “slav,” a reference to the Eastern European White people who, among others, were enslaved by their fellow Whites, by the Mongols, and by the Arabs over a period of many centuries. Children were openly seized from orphanages and workhouses and placed in factories or the plantations. The expression “spirited away” originated with the White slavers, who were called “spirits”.

The impression is given that only Whites bear responsibility for enslaving Blacks and that only Blacks were slaves. In fact, Blacks in Africa engaged in extensive enslavement of their own kind. Slavery was endemic in Africa, with entire tribes being enslaved through conquest on a regular basis. When Arabic, Jewish and White slave traders arrived on the coast of sub-Saharan Africa, they seldom if ever had to travel inland and fight or pursue their quarry. They were met on the coast by Africans more than willing to sell slaves to them by the thousands. Americac records show that Black slaves were owned, not just by a few wealthy Whites, but by free Blacks and by Cherokee Indians. In some cases, these Blacks and Indians even owned White slaves.

In recent decades, there has been a lot of misdirected hate. Far more Whites in America are descendants of White slaves than are descendants of slave owners. And considering the endemic nature of slavery in Black Africa, it’s also true that a large proportion of Blacks in America have ancestors that were themselves slave owners. That is what MLK alluded to. Anger is human, but we fail to see how much we really have in common. Yes, there is a problem that exists in America, but not all whites are guilty and not all blacks are victims. Entitlements, Privelege, etc. are concepts spawned out of the past few decades, not our sordid past.  It’s time we stopped fueling the hate and moved on. The majority of us are more than capable of overcoming the stupidity of a few.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some astute observations, but I would like to add this: Not many are aware that the original American colonists came here, not of their own free will, but were kidnapped and brought to this country in chains. </p>
<p>From 1609 until the early 1800s, between one half and two thirds of all the White colonists who came to the New World came as slaves. White slaves cleared the forests, drained the swamps, built the roads, sweated in the fields, and died like flies in hellish factories. Owned like property, they had no rights nor recourse to the law. Fugitive slave laws applied to them just as to Blacks if they should flee their masters. Black slaves were expensive, and though at times cruelly used, were not often used beyond the limits of human endurance. That would have been a waste of a costly investment. White slaves, however, consisting of the poor and unwanted “surplus population” of Britain, were available for nearly nothing, just a few pence for a thug to billyclub them and shanghai them aboard a westward-bound vessel. Thus they were expendable.</p>
<p>The word “slave” itself is derived from the word “slav,” a reference to the Eastern European White people who, among others, were enslaved by their fellow Whites, by the Mongols, and by the Arabs over a period of many centuries. Children were openly seized from orphanages and workhouses and placed in factories or the plantations. The expression “spirited away” originated with the White slavers, who were called “spirits”.</p>
<p>The impression is given that only Whites bear responsibility for enslaving Blacks and that only Blacks were slaves. In fact, Blacks in Africa engaged in extensive enslavement of their own kind. Slavery was endemic in Africa, with entire tribes being enslaved through conquest on a regular basis. When Arabic, Jewish and White slave traders arrived on the coast of sub-Saharan Africa, they seldom if ever had to travel inland and fight or pursue their quarry. They were met on the coast by Africans more than willing to sell slaves to them by the thousands. Americac records show that Black slaves were owned, not just by a few wealthy Whites, but by free Blacks and by Cherokee Indians. In some cases, these Blacks and Indians even owned White slaves.</p>
<p>In recent decades, there has been a lot of misdirected hate. Far more Whites in America are descendants of White slaves than are descendants of slave owners. And considering the endemic nature of slavery in Black Africa, it’s also true that a large proportion of Blacks in America have ancestors that were themselves slave owners. That is what MLK alluded to. Anger is human, but we fail to see how much we really have in common. Yes, there is a problem that exists in America, but not all whites are guilty and not all blacks are victims. Entitlements, Privelege, etc. are concepts spawned out of the past few decades, not our sordid past.  It’s time we stopped fueling the hate and moved on. The majority of us are more than capable of overcoming the stupidity of a few.</p>
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		<title>By: B99</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51119</link>
		<dc:creator>B99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51119</guid>
		<description>Max - Seems the dem/libs are to the left of you - and, more civil.  Apparently, you think this conversation is about you.  And you think that the point of my relaying what is said on national tv and radio is so you can differentiate yourself to me from the dumbasses and wackos.  No, the point is to show that conservative politics is STILL about race.  Glenn Beck is just repeating what the Dixiecrats said during the Truman Administration - and the guy in WV absorbs that lessonwell.  But what do you get out of the message?  That you are too smart for a dodo shock jock and so why should I bring that up.  And you are what - a post-racial citizen of the world?   I think I know where you are coming from - you don&#039;t want to admit to privilege because that draws you, Mr. Greenjeans, in as a participating party to race in America.  Without notions of racial privilege you can pretend it&#039;s a thing of the past, an aberration in the present, or its institutional.  Hey, not Max.  He&#039;s the metro-racial man.  I suppose that&#039;s a common sentiment among modestly liberal white boys that are not from the working class.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max &#8211; Seems the dem/libs are to the left of you &#8211; and, more civil.  Apparently, you think this conversation is about you.  And you think that the point of my relaying what is said on national tv and radio is so you can differentiate yourself to me from the dumbasses and wackos.  No, the point is to show that conservative politics is STILL about race.  Glenn Beck is just repeating what the Dixiecrats said during the Truman Administration &#8211; and the guy in WV absorbs that lessonwell.  But what do you get out of the message?  That you are too smart for a dodo shock jock and so why should I bring that up.  And you are what &#8211; a post-racial citizen of the world?   I think I know where you are coming from &#8211; you don&#8217;t want to admit to privilege because that draws you, Mr. Greenjeans, in as a participating party to race in America.  Without notions of racial privilege you can pretend it&#8217;s a thing of the past, an aberration in the present, or its institutional.  Hey, not Max.  He&#8217;s the metro-racial man.  I suppose that&#8217;s a common sentiment among modestly liberal white boys that are not from the working class.</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/teachable-moments-require-willing-learners/#comment-51118</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9461#comment-51118</guid>
		<description>Joed raises some very good questions and unfortuantely Max&#039;s response to those issues is yet another example of why solidarity with communities of color and the Left is so retarded.  The idea of race is a construct used to divide and conquer workers and unfortunately the notion of Whiteness is why there is blackness (or of color).  Blackness only due to White supremacy and it is up to whites to relinquish the idea of whiteness.  That is how racism is going to be resolved.  The rhetoric today that Max seems to be falling into is the same &quot;post-racist&quot; crap that the Obama campaign was subtlety selling.  To pit race vs class is nonsensical since the two are intertwined. What has also helped to water down racial oppression on the left has been identity politics which tries to conceal racism (and classism).

All we have to do is look at the history of the labor movement and the progressive era to see how racism weakened these movements.  We even see the far-right like Limbaugh, Hannity, and Glen Beck attempt to use their microphones to spew out racist animosity in hopes to build up their base.  This cannot be disregarded.

Also in addition to white supremacy, the Left needs to deal with Zionism as well.  Anti-Arab and anti-Muslim racism in the U.S. is very acceptable. 

In short if there is going to be any struggle against Capitalism it must also incorporate a struggle against all forms of racism.  Otherwise as conditions worsens there will continue to be no coherence and no solidarity from the Left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joed raises some very good questions and unfortuantely Max&#8217;s response to those issues is yet another example of why solidarity with communities of color and the Left is so retarded.  The idea of race is a construct used to divide and conquer workers and unfortunately the notion of Whiteness is why there is blackness (or of color).  Blackness only due to White supremacy and it is up to whites to relinquish the idea of whiteness.  That is how racism is going to be resolved.  The rhetoric today that Max seems to be falling into is the same &#8220;post-racist&#8221; crap that the Obama campaign was subtlety selling.  To pit race vs class is nonsensical since the two are intertwined. What has also helped to water down racial oppression on the left has been identity politics which tries to conceal racism (and classism).</p>
<p>All we have to do is look at the history of the labor movement and the progressive era to see how racism weakened these movements.  We even see the far-right like Limbaugh, Hannity, and Glen Beck attempt to use their microphones to spew out racist animosity in hopes to build up their base.  This cannot be disregarded.</p>
<p>Also in addition to white supremacy, the Left needs to deal with Zionism as well.  Anti-Arab and anti-Muslim racism in the U.S. is very acceptable. </p>
<p>In short if there is going to be any struggle against Capitalism it must also incorporate a struggle against all forms of racism.  Otherwise as conditions worsens there will continue to be no coherence and no solidarity from the Left.</p>
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