Comments on: Solidarity Divided http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/solidarity-divided/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:07:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: lichen http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/solidarity-divided/#comment-50990 lichen Thu, 30 Jul 2009 03:22:31 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9477#comment-50990 Yes, that is exactly what we need; the return of a movement/solution/terminology that was at it's peak almost one hundred years ago and has only in the passing years diminished ever further. And all this when we have newer solutions, such as cooperatives and firing the boss; and all of this when the reality of the environmental crisis might have us talking about organic farming cooperatives and the like instead of industrial unions. Yes, that is exactly what we need; the return of a movement/solution/terminology that was at it’s peak almost one hundred years ago and has only in the passing years diminished ever further. And all this when we have newer solutions, such as cooperatives and firing the boss; and all of this when the reality of the environmental crisis might have us talking about organic farming cooperatives and the like instead of industrial unions.

]]> By: Lupita http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/solidarity-divided/#comment-50979 Lupita Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:51:38 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9477#comment-50979 “On the other hand, capitalism encourages the belief that sections of the population who are better off have achieved this position at the expense of those who are worse off, i.e., that men benefit from the oppression of women, Whites benefit from the oppression of Blacks, straights benefit from the oppression of gays, workers in richer nations benefit from the exploitation of workers in poorer nations, etc. This idea is widespread, but untrue.” I do not believe that workers support capitalism because they think it exploits certain segments of society which enables them to personally benefit. Furthermore, if people are so callous as to support the system for that reason, I do not foresee them switching into supporting a just system by telling them that the unjust system really does not benefit them personally. Why not support another unjust system that does? Furthermore, the prevalent neoliberal ideology promotes the idea that the US is an equal opportunity society, therefore, the poor are so because they are lazy or stupid; the rich, on the other hand, are so because they are hardworking, innovative, and honest. The notion that each has the position he/she deserves is widely promoted in schools, political discourse, and the media and most wholeheartedly buy it. As to the notion that American workers believe they owe their wealth to the oppression of workers in other parts of the world, this flies against expressions of American exceptionalism so prevalent, again, in schools, political discourse, and the media. Notions such as “we are the greatest nation the world has ever seen”, “leaders of the free world”, “beacon of light that shines upon humanity”, etc. are so common as to be considered central to American culture and ideology. Most Americans truly believe the US owes its position in the world to their collective virtues of hard work and intelligence, certainly not to exploitation by its state and corporate class. It is not untrue, as you state, that American workers benefit from exploitation elsewhere. The resources the US is able to cheaply import benefits workers by giving them jobs in industry. The cheap capital that flows from poor countries benefits the US, workers included, by granting them cheap credit to buy houses and imported cars they could otherwise not afford. Pension plans and the US government itself is sustained by dollar hegemony which benefits all of society, including the working class. Finally, the economic growth Americans are so proud of could not have been possible without population growth, most of which is due to the immigration of Mexican peasants whose livelihood was destroyed by NAFTA. To state that the working class does not benefit in some way from the US’ position as sole superpower is ludicrous. It is the reason why unions and the people themselves amply support, and are openly proud of, American supremacy. “The 2006 million-strong general strikes in defense of immigrants’ rights were fed by the rising unionization of immigrant workers.” This is also false. It was fed by the American Catholic Church and Chambers of Commerce. “The problem may be the mistaken belief that some workers benefit from the oppression of others.” Even if you were to convince workers that American financial, corporate, and military oppression does not benefit them in the least, how does that help combat poverty and injustice, both domestically and globally? The problem is to convince Americans, including workers, to fight for justice, to become socialists. “On the other hand, capitalism encourages the belief that sections of the population who are better off have achieved this position at the expense of those who are worse off, i.e., that men benefit from the oppression of women, Whites benefit from the oppression of Blacks, straights benefit from the oppression of gays, workers in richer nations benefit from the exploitation of workers in poorer nations, etc. This idea is widespread, but untrue.”

I do not believe that workers support capitalism because they think it exploits certain segments of society which enables them to personally benefit. Furthermore, if people are so callous as to support the system for that reason, I do not foresee them switching into supporting a just system by telling them that the unjust system really does not benefit them personally. Why not support another unjust system that does? Furthermore, the prevalent neoliberal ideology promotes the idea that the US is an equal opportunity society, therefore, the poor are so because they are lazy or stupid; the rich, on the other hand, are so because they are hardworking, innovative, and honest. The notion that each has the position he/she deserves is widely promoted in schools, political discourse, and the media and most wholeheartedly buy it.

As to the notion that American workers believe they owe their wealth to the oppression of workers in other parts of the world, this flies against expressions of American exceptionalism so prevalent, again, in schools, political discourse, and the media. Notions such as “we are the greatest nation the world has ever seen”, “leaders of the free world”, “beacon of light that shines upon humanity”, etc. are so common as to be considered central to American culture and ideology. Most Americans truly believe the US owes its position in the world to their collective virtues of hard work and intelligence, certainly not to exploitation by its state and corporate class.

It is not untrue, as you state, that American workers benefit from exploitation elsewhere. The resources the US is able to cheaply import benefits workers by giving them jobs in industry. The cheap capital that flows from poor countries benefits the US, workers included, by granting them cheap credit to buy houses and imported cars they could otherwise not afford. Pension plans and the US government itself is sustained by dollar hegemony which benefits all of society, including the working class. Finally, the economic growth Americans are so proud of could not have been possible without population growth, most of which is due to the immigration of Mexican peasants whose livelihood was destroyed by NAFTA. To state that the working class does not benefit in some way from the US’ position as sole superpower is ludicrous. It is the reason why unions and the people themselves amply support, and are openly proud of, American supremacy.

“The 2006 million-strong general strikes in defense of immigrants’ rights were fed by the rising unionization of immigrant workers.”

This is also false. It was fed by the American Catholic Church and Chambers of Commerce.

“The problem may be the mistaken belief that some workers benefit from the oppression of others.”

Even if you were to convince workers that American financial, corporate, and military oppression does not benefit them in the least, how does that help combat poverty and injustice, both domestically and globally? The problem is to convince Americans, including workers, to fight for justice, to become socialists.

]]> By: bozh http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/solidarity-divided/#comment-50976 bozh Wed, 29 Jul 2009 22:22:30 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9477#comment-50976 canary, since we all swim in one genetic pool we, to be humans, must be allowed to swim in one swimming pool. tnx canary,
since we all swim in one genetic pool we, to be humans, must be allowed to swim in one swimming pool.
tnx

]]> By: Harry Canary http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/solidarity-divided/#comment-50968 Harry Canary Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:49:12 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9477#comment-50968 The real battles are class based. Our society is based on the old European ideas of nobility and aristocracy. It is doubtful that these things can be repaired. Change will not happen till the society is completely broken. Then it will be obvious change is necessary. When that time comes people of good will need to be ready to act. Otherwise the Lenins and Dzherzinskis will take hold of any class based movement. The change can go bad in an instant. Till then we can try to move the discussion in the right direction. Do not allow the pseudo conservatives, pretend libertarians and the pretend social darwinists to dominate the discussion. Though these people talk tough, they always demand that the table be tilted in their favor. I have never met one who made it on her own without a leg up from mommy or the government. Society will not work if it is set to benefit only a few. And no person is inherently better than another simply due to accident of birth. The real battles are class based. Our society is based on the old European ideas of nobility and aristocracy. It is doubtful that these things can be repaired. Change will not happen till the society is completely broken. Then it will be obvious change is necessary.

When that time comes people of good will need to be ready to act. Otherwise the Lenins and Dzherzinskis will take hold of any class based movement. The change can go bad in an instant.

Till then we can try to move the discussion in the right direction. Do not allow the pseudo conservatives, pretend libertarians and the pretend social darwinists to dominate the discussion. Though these people talk tough, they always demand that the table be tilted in their favor. I have never met one who made it on her own without a leg up from mommy or the government. Society will not work if it is set to benefit only a few. And no person is inherently better than another simply due to accident of birth.

]]> By: Doug Page http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/solidarity-divided/#comment-50960 Doug Page Wed, 29 Jul 2009 19:01:37 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=9477#comment-50960 Dr. Rosenthal: Your article is just what we need and the labor movement needs. We Whites have to face our self-defeating privileges within unions, just as White citizens and cops need to recognize their self-defeating privileged status just because of skin color. The wealth class makes effective use of these "privileges" to divide and defeat us, and to preserve its power. I too regretfully supported Obama, as did Fletcher, Hayden and Ehrenreich. Obama is a dangerously masterful communicator whose acts so far, always betray us and serve corporate wealth at home, in Israel, the Middle East and Honduras. Given his advisers and apparent personal conservatism, I see no prospect of change. We need to plan now for the immense despair and bitterness that will surface as more and more voters, now afflicted with Obamamania, realize that Obama has seduced and betrayed them. Dr. Rosenthal's outline of a class based employee movement is an excellent place to start. Otherwise, a bitter and dissillusioned employee class is likely to vote for a Wall Street backed Sarah Palin for President in the next cycle. At least she would provide a circus of entertainment, and would do no more harm than brilliant Harvard graduates who always serve corporate wealth . Dr. Rosenthal: Your article is just what we need and the labor movement needs. We Whites have to face our self-defeating privileges within unions, just as White citizens and cops need to recognize their self-defeating privileged status just because of skin color. The wealth class makes effective use of these “privileges” to divide and defeat us, and to preserve its power.
I too regretfully supported Obama, as did Fletcher, Hayden and Ehrenreich. Obama is a dangerously masterful communicator whose acts so far, always betray us and serve corporate wealth at home, in Israel, the Middle East and Honduras. Given his advisers and apparent personal conservatism, I see no prospect of change. We need to plan now for the immense despair and bitterness that will surface as more and more voters, now afflicted with Obamamania, realize that Obama has seduced and betrayed them. Dr. Rosenthal’s outline of a class based employee movement is an excellent place to start. Otherwise, a bitter and dissillusioned employee class is likely to vote for a Wall Street backed Sarah Palin for President in the next cycle. At least she would provide a circus of entertainment, and would do no more harm than brilliant Harvard graduates who always serve corporate wealth .

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