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	<title>Comments on: Beyond Independence</title>
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	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas vancouver</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/beyond-independence/#comment-49474</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas vancouver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 16:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8951#comment-49474</guid>
		<description>as an aside, i&#039;ve been thinking that the nukes israel may have won&#039;t be of any use to israelis, since the world plutos who, i assume, very much like to live and enjoy their country sides, golf courses, social clubs in which to flaunt their wealth and importance, wld not allow judaists&amp;co.
to even threaten thier lifestyles let alone destroy any of their countries and their very being.

so, nuclear weapons even for US might not be of that much importance since its use by US in first strike action wld endager rich as much as poor unless they&#039;d be able to go to moon or stay for a while in an orbit.
this is one reason why US is going into outer space: to evacuate plutos to safety and then launch a devastating nuke attack against hapless countries or even continents.
perhaps, plutos might OK or abide by small dirty bombs if they can be manufactured.

but just one or sevceral  bombs that cld destroy large area probably won&#039;t be deliberately used. If US is going to use them, they wld probably use  thousands.  And accidents  happen also!
oh my devil! He&#039;s happy as a lark once it all starts! tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as an aside, i&#8217;ve been thinking that the nukes israel may have won&#8217;t be of any use to israelis, since the world plutos who, i assume, very much like to live and enjoy their country sides, golf courses, social clubs in which to flaunt their wealth and importance, wld not allow judaists&amp;co.<br />
to even threaten thier lifestyles let alone destroy any of their countries and their very being.</p>
<p>so, nuclear weapons even for US might not be of that much importance since its use by US in first strike action wld endager rich as much as poor unless they&#8217;d be able to go to moon or stay for a while in an orbit.<br />
this is one reason why US is going into outer space: to evacuate plutos to safety and then launch a devastating nuke attack against hapless countries or even continents.<br />
perhaps, plutos might OK or abide by small dirty bombs if they can be manufactured.</p>
<p>but just one or sevceral  bombs that cld destroy large area probably won&#8217;t be deliberately used. If US is going to use them, they wld probably use  thousands.  And accidents  happen also!<br />
oh my devil! He&#8217;s happy as a lark once it all starts! tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/beyond-independence/#comment-49470</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8951#comment-49470</guid>
		<description>I still think the decent people outnumber the vile.  But, as others have said, we are often disinformed and ignorant.

If we continue to do things the same way, expecting different results, we&#039;re all going to pay for our stupidity.  I think mandatory schooling and standardized curriculum handed down from the Fed level, designed by commerce interests and sociologists/psychologists, are a great part of the problem.  Schooling the masses, from their tiny youth, creates culture according to the whims of the spiritually bereft posers that profit from a divided, underdeveloped and confused population.  

We need to teach our children disobedience, among other things.  Most people think if they don&#039;t follow along with the prescribed program (shots, primary/secondary schooling, standardized tests) that all doors will be shut for them.  That is a view that sees money and other expensive pieces of paper as the end goal.  

Individual independence makes successful communities and positive interdependence.  Without solid individuals, all we are is a herd of homogeny that waits to be told what to do and think.  Group identity, without individual empowerment and sense of responsibility, is what schools are pushing.  It&#039;s not good.

Peace,
Melissa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still think the decent people outnumber the vile.  But, as others have said, we are often disinformed and ignorant.</p>
<p>If we continue to do things the same way, expecting different results, we&#8217;re all going to pay for our stupidity.  I think mandatory schooling and standardized curriculum handed down from the Fed level, designed by commerce interests and sociologists/psychologists, are a great part of the problem.  Schooling the masses, from their tiny youth, creates culture according to the whims of the spiritually bereft posers that profit from a divided, underdeveloped and confused population.  </p>
<p>We need to teach our children disobedience, among other things.  Most people think if they don&#8217;t follow along with the prescribed program (shots, primary/secondary schooling, standardized tests) that all doors will be shut for them.  That is a view that sees money and other expensive pieces of paper as the end goal.  </p>
<p>Individual independence makes successful communities and positive interdependence.  Without solid individuals, all we are is a herd of homogeny that waits to be told what to do and think.  Group identity, without individual empowerment and sense of responsibility, is what schools are pushing.  It&#8217;s not good.</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Melissa</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/beyond-independence/#comment-49461</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 08:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8951#comment-49461</guid>
		<description>Bozh,

  I haven&#039;t given up on humanity.

DB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bozh,</p>
<p>  I haven&#8217;t given up on humanity.</p>
<p>DB</p>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas vancouver</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/beyond-independence/#comment-49447</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas vancouver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 23:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8951#comment-49447</guid>
		<description>yes, DB,
we humans- just like lions which kill &#039;cruelly&#039;  a bull- are, to me, part of an infinitely-valued nature.
A nature that does so much good to us and so much badness to us.
yes, it is nature that makes us trusting and interdependent. And it is nature which s&#039;mhow makes psychotic people who usurp our trust to the degree that the psychos have enslaved us for millennia and of late enserfed us; probably for millennia or forever?!?!
OK! this is just one person&#039;s explanation! However, this does not mean that we do not have latent abilities to lessen our evil doings and increase our good deeds.
i am not prophecying it, tho! Anybody out there who dares speak up on this interpretation of nature/people?
but first have a bottle of red wine and a sex-starved individual. No, i don&#039;t care if it is dog, man, woman.
i am, self, no longer of kissing age! And even with viagra. Remember you &#039;jews&#039; yahweh can take care of everything. The only thing he can&#039;t go without is the viagra.
so, why complain/rage against a godless nonhebraic like me  when one has his/her jewishnes/judaism/yahweh? tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, DB,<br />
we humans- just like lions which kill &#8216;cruelly&#8217;  a bull- are, to me, part of an infinitely-valued nature.<br />
A nature that does so much good to us and so much badness to us.<br />
yes, it is nature that makes us trusting and interdependent. And it is nature which s&#8217;mhow makes psychotic people who usurp our trust to the degree that the psychos have enslaved us for millennia and of late enserfed us; probably for millennia or forever?!?!<br />
OK! this is just one person&#8217;s explanation! However, this does not mean that we do not have latent abilities to lessen our evil doings and increase our good deeds.<br />
i am not prophecying it, tho! Anybody out there who dares speak up on this interpretation of nature/people?<br />
but first have a bottle of red wine and a sex-starved individual. No, i don&#8217;t care if it is dog, man, woman.<br />
i am, self, no longer of kissing age! And even with viagra. Remember you &#8216;jews&#8217; yahweh can take care of everything. The only thing he can&#8217;t go without is the viagra.<br />
so, why complain/rage against a godless nonhebraic like me  when one has his/her jewishnes/judaism/yahweh? tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/beyond-independence/#comment-49436</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:38:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8951#comment-49436</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;it is not capitalism or constitution that makes us richer or poorer- it is solely people who do that.&lt;/i&gt;

That that begs to ask the question why do &quot;people&quot; behave that way or is it just &quot;innate&quot; to &quot;people&quot;?  

Apparently some &quot;people&quot; are MORE POWERFUL than others.  Therefore that bring us right back to ideology and the systems of control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>it is not capitalism or constitution that makes us richer or poorer- it is solely people who do that.</i></p>
<p>That that begs to ask the question why do &#8220;people&#8221; behave that way or is it just &#8220;innate&#8221; to &#8220;people&#8221;?  </p>
<p>Apparently some &#8220;people&#8221; are MORE POWERFUL than others.  Therefore that bring us right back to ideology and the systems of control.</p>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas vancouver</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/beyond-independence/#comment-49435</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas vancouver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8951#comment-49435</guid>
		<description>tennessee,
respectfully,
it is not capitalism or constitution that makes us richer or poorer- it is solely people who do that.
it is people who wage wars, agree, disagree, hate, etc.
it is people who interpret the constitution [and not the constitution self]  who permit other people to attack innocent peoples thousands of kms away from US.

it is not even god that wages wars but once again solely the people.
there is no hell or heaven- only hellish and heavenly people.
but, sadly, we may have only a dozen sane/heavenly people in US and 300mn hellish ones.
as we look at people who are farther and farther away from hellish amers, we may discover  more and more heavenly people. tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tennessee,<br />
respectfully,<br />
it is not capitalism or constitution that makes us richer or poorer- it is solely people who do that.<br />
it is people who wage wars, agree, disagree, hate, etc.<br />
it is people who interpret the constitution [and not the constitution self]  who permit other people to attack innocent peoples thousands of kms away from US.</p>
<p>it is not even god that wages wars but once again solely the people.<br />
there is no hell or heaven- only hellish and heavenly people.<br />
but, sadly, we may have only a dozen sane/heavenly people in US and 300mn hellish ones.<br />
as we look at people who are farther and farther away from hellish amers, we may discover  more and more heavenly people. tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/beyond-independence/#comment-49399</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 04:46:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8951#comment-49399</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to borrow some faith, Tennessee.  I am worried that as USAers get poorer, they will become more rigid and fearful.

I hope you are correct.

Peace,
Melissa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to borrow some faith, Tennessee.  I am worried that as USAers get poorer, they will become more rigid and fearful.</p>
<p>I hope you are correct.</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Melissa</p>
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		<title>By: Tennessee-With-Zelaya</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/beyond-independence/#comment-49395</link>
		<dc:creator>Tennessee-With-Zelaya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8951#comment-49395</guid>
		<description>THE WORLD IS IN A PARADIGM-SHIFT FROM CAPITALISM TOWARD SOCIALISM !!

We are in a world of paradigm shift. Where conservative, right-wing elitist ideology is fading away. It is fading away because we are living in a sort of enlightenment period again. (But this time brought to the masses by the internet, economic collapse and the sharing of knowledge. Which produces an objective revolutionary situation)

The old right-wing system of the XX Century will fade away. Right-wing ideology is anti-scientific, not backed by science and proofs. But backed by Domination Theology Churches (Right wing classist, elitist churches)

People are waking up and rejecting The Republican Party and all philosophical and political systems that deffend the rich people and oppress the majority which are poors.

And don&#039;t worry people. The collapse of the US dollar and the coming hyper-inflation will make Republican Party religious zionist voters and lunatic evangelical zealots, into socialists. Sooner or later the US citizens will be necessarily forced to look toward people like Ralph Nader, Cynthia Mckinney, The Green Party, The Socialist Party of USA and other Third Political Party alternatives as an escape out of this barbaric capitalist hell of Democrats and Republicans which have only brought to all US citizens, poverty, misery, diabetes, obesity, an epidemia of heart-related deaths and illnesses, foreclosures, tent cities, 20% of unemployment, 80 millions of americans in poverty, and 1 out of 6 american children starving. While a minority which is about 2% to 5% of the USA population is getting richer, and richer and richer. While the rest of americans is getting poorer, poorer and poorer.

In other words. capitalism in USA is only making us poorer and poorer.

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THE WORLD IS IN A PARADIGM-SHIFT FROM CAPITALISM TOWARD SOCIALISM !!</p>
<p>We are in a world of paradigm shift. Where conservative, right-wing elitist ideology is fading away. It is fading away because we are living in a sort of enlightenment period again. (But this time brought to the masses by the internet, economic collapse and the sharing of knowledge. Which produces an objective revolutionary situation)</p>
<p>The old right-wing system of the XX Century will fade away. Right-wing ideology is anti-scientific, not backed by science and proofs. But backed by Domination Theology Churches (Right wing classist, elitist churches)</p>
<p>People are waking up and rejecting The Republican Party and all philosophical and political systems that deffend the rich people and oppress the majority which are poors.</p>
<p>And don&#8217;t worry people. The collapse of the US dollar and the coming hyper-inflation will make Republican Party religious zionist voters and lunatic evangelical zealots, into socialists. Sooner or later the US citizens will be necessarily forced to look toward people like Ralph Nader, Cynthia Mckinney, The Green Party, The Socialist Party of USA and other Third Political Party alternatives as an escape out of this barbaric capitalist hell of Democrats and Republicans which have only brought to all US citizens, poverty, misery, diabetes, obesity, an epidemia of heart-related deaths and illnesses, foreclosures, tent cities, 20% of unemployment, 80 millions of americans in poverty, and 1 out of 6 american children starving. While a minority which is about 2% to 5% of the USA population is getting richer, and richer and richer. While the rest of americans is getting poorer, poorer and poorer.</p>
<p>In other words. capitalism in USA is only making us poorer and poorer.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny Ray</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/beyond-independence/#comment-49232</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 21:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8951#comment-49232</guid>
		<description>Sorry Michael,The Congress of Vienna in 1815 is what put an end to The Swiss wars. They had been an adventurous lot until then, in the treaty the swiss garenteed to not go to war outside  of their own country. with the exception of the swiss guards for the Vatican. and even since then they have not been reticent about shooting each other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Michael,The Congress of Vienna in 1815 is what put an end to The Swiss wars. They had been an adventurous lot until then, in the treaty the swiss garenteed to not go to war outside  of their own country. with the exception of the swiss guards for the Vatican. and even since then they have not been reticent about shooting each other.</p>
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		<title>By: bozhidar balkas vancouver</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/beyond-independence/#comment-49225</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar balkas vancouver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 19:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8951#comment-49225</guid>
		<description>this is the second time i have encountered in alternate media the word  &quot;interdependence&quot;.

so, we want US also to think as being interdependent. US was deemed by many as an exception and exceptional.
at one time, decades ago, i thought so also.
 we are OK. We are what nature made us. But as jensen also points out, the clergy began to teach us that we are evil, unruly, lost, etc., and thus needed &#039;god&#039; {read: obey priests} in our lives.

meanwhile, as also jensen confirms, a few psychopaths begun to usurp our trust of  one another and our pristine interdependence; establishing second tier of despots which from that time united in oppressing people.  

euro nations are indeed now more interdependent than ever but sadly, as events in afgh&#039;n prove, strongly fascist or still deluded by clero-political-psychotic class of life. Sad. The madness continues but once again against the weakest among us. damn all these gangsters. tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is the second time i have encountered in alternate media the word  &#8220;interdependence&#8221;.</p>
<p>so, we want US also to think as being interdependent. US was deemed by many as an exception and exceptional.<br />
at one time, decades ago, i thought so also.<br />
 we are OK. We are what nature made us. But as jensen also points out, the clergy began to teach us that we are evil, unruly, lost, etc., and thus needed &#8216;god&#8217; {read: obey priests} in our lives.</p>
<p>meanwhile, as also jensen confirms, a few psychopaths begun to usurp our trust of  one another and our pristine interdependence; establishing second tier of despots which from that time united in oppressing people.  </p>
<p>euro nations are indeed now more interdependent than ever but sadly, as events in afgh&#8217;n prove, strongly fascist or still deluded by clero-political-psychotic class of life. Sad. The madness continues but once again against the weakest among us. damn all these gangsters. tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Kenny</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/07/beyond-independence/#comment-49219</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jul 2009 17:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8951#comment-49219</guid>
		<description>The underlying idea here is the one which inspires and sustains the European Union: make European countries so dependent on each other that they cannot realistically make war on each other. The Swiss, for example, have not been at war since 1515! Americans need to shake off the colonial &quot;kill or be killed&quot; mentality and become, well, ... independent!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The underlying idea here is the one which inspires and sustains the European Union: make European countries so dependent on each other that they cannot realistically make war on each other. The Swiss, for example, have not been at war since 1515! Americans need to shake off the colonial &#8220;kill or be killed&#8221; mentality and become, well, &#8230; independent!</p>
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