Comments on: What is the Fetishism of Commodities? http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:07:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Deadbeat http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47385 Deadbeat Thu, 04 Jun 2009 10:10:37 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47385 Let's maintain the original context ... <i>The table, the stool and the chair are three “things” that are related to each other as the embodiment of the social relations and necessary labor of human beings that created them. Human social relations have been objectified as the relations between non human things. The chair may be more valuable than the table, but the reason is now hidden away from the perception of people.</i> The author did say that what is lost with differing prices is the social relationship that it took to create the those products. Your response Garrett supports the author's point about the fetishism of commodities. You are more concern with the amount of wood used to build the table than the social relationship that it took to build the table or the chair. The point is that the object "wood" is more important to you than social relationships and interactions. Let’s maintain the original context …

The table, the stool and the chair are three “things” that are related to each other as the embodiment of the social relations and necessary labor of human beings that created them. Human social relations have been objectified as the relations between non human things. The chair may be more valuable than the table, but the reason is now hidden away from the perception of people.

The author did say that what is lost with differing prices is the social relationship that it took to create the those products. Your response Garrett supports the author’s point about the fetishism of commodities. You are more concern with the amount of wood used to build the table than the social relationship that it took to build the table or the chair. The point is that the object “wood” is more important to you than social relationships and interactions.

]]> By: Garrett http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47335 Garrett Wed, 03 Jun 2009 16:18:07 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47335 Dogma and solidarity are like oil and water. "When it gets to the market, the table finds itself in the company of the stool and the chair. All three have use values, are made of the same wood and may be in equal supply and equal demand — yet each has its own different price." Perhaps that's because there is more wood in the table than in the stool and chair. Dogma and solidarity are like oil and water.

“When it gets to the market, the table finds itself in the company of the stool and the chair. All three have use values, are made of the same wood and may be in equal supply and equal demand — yet each has its own different price.”

Perhaps that’s because there is more wood in the table than in the stool and chair.

]]> By: bozh http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47331 bozh Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:36:47 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47331 the word "democracy" can be found on the last rung of a ladder that stretches towards the moon. but once we alight on earth, nowhere can we find any rule of the people for the people. we do find, broadly, a minority of people, ruling over a majority of people. as always and in all lands/empires, and for millennia, the rulers are patricians and ruled-over are peasants. and, whatever one labels the situation in US and elsewhere, about 2% or less of the people rule the rest. in short, in most lands the patricians have set up a fascist structure of society. much better structure of society for peasants wld be a gregarious/social structure of society in which basic human rights wld be granted to all citizens. how much talent we may be wasting by not educating all people who want to be educated. I am talking about an enlightening education governed by also peasants and not solely by clero-political 'elite' [read, please, deceivers] but even healthcare owned by all people wld probably cost less while at the same time making people feel more secure/happy. but the ruling class will never allow thses basic human rights; because if peasants ever tasted them, they wld clammor for more rights. and the ruling class runs on scared; scared to death of losing its lofty status with its lofty right: right to speak; while only they speak. tnx bozhidar balkas vancouver the word “democracy” can be found on the last rung of a ladder that stretches towards the moon.
but once we alight on earth, nowhere can we find any rule of the people for the people.
we do find, broadly, a minority of people, ruling over a majority of people.
as always and in all lands/empires, and for millennia, the rulers are patricians and ruled-over are peasants.
and, whatever one labels the situation in US and elsewhere, about 2% or less of the people rule the rest.
in short, in most lands the patricians have set up a fascist structure of society.
much better structure of society for peasants wld be a gregarious/social structure of society in which basic human rights wld be granted to all citizens.

how much talent we may be wasting by not educating all people who want to be educated. I am talking about an enlightening education governed by also peasants and not solely by clero-political ‘elite’ [read, please, deceivers]
but even healthcare owned by all people wld probably cost less while at the same time making people feel more secure/happy.

but the ruling class will never allow thses basic human rights; because if peasants ever tasted them, they wld clammor for more rights.
and the ruling class runs on scared; scared to death of losing its lofty status with its lofty right: right to speak; while only they speak. tnx bozhidar balkas vancouver

]]> By: bozh http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47330 bozh Wed, 03 Jun 2009 13:03:56 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47330 ian, one does not chose to be born nor the wiggler that enters an ovary. that's how a new life starts. not all wigglers are hard working, smart, honest, etc; some are 'lazy', 'dumb', etc. actually, nature does not give a damn about human categories such as 'stupidity', ' laziness', etc; it never makes the same mistake twice. no, nature is not a fool for inventing a genetic pool. laziness, as we said before, is a human invention. Probably invented by nobility/clergy; to use as weapon against people who produced less than others. and they produced less for various causes: asthma, hypertension, diabetes, brain injuries of all kind, cancer, flus, kidney failure and a host of other illnesess that nobody wanted but some people got because the wrong wiggler entered the wrong ovary at the wrong time. so, in final analyses, the nature is also mean. tnx ian,
one does not chose to be born nor the wiggler that enters an ovary.
that’s how a new life starts.
not all wigglers are hard working, smart, honest, etc; some are ‘lazy’, ‘dumb’, etc.
actually, nature does not give a damn about human categories such as ‘stupidity’, ‘ laziness’, etc; it never makes the same mistake twice.
no, nature is not a fool for inventing a genetic pool.

laziness, as we said before, is a human invention. Probably invented by nobility/clergy; to use as weapon against people who produced less than others.
and they produced less for various causes: asthma, hypertension, diabetes, brain injuries of all kind, cancer, flus, kidney failure and a host of other illnesess that nobody wanted but some people got because the wrong wiggler entered the wrong ovary at the wrong time.
so, in final analyses, the nature is also mean. tnx

]]> By: Deadbeat http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47327 Deadbeat Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:09:41 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47327 <i>An ideology is responsible for the crimes committed in it’s name ...</i> Yeah right what an asinine concept. This means that since the U.S. is a "democracy" then "democracy" is GUILTY for all U.S. crimes. Therefore according to lichen there should be no striving for justice or democracy. This lack of ideology and fallacious reasoning is a major reason for the lack of solidarity and is unfortunately commonplace among the so-called "Left". It a real pity and until the "Left" embrace ideology of solidarity and justice and truth and trust it makes building a real movement extremely difficult. An ideology is responsible for the crimes committed in it’s name …

Yeah right what an asinine concept. This means that since the U.S. is a “democracy” then “democracy” is GUILTY for all U.S. crimes. Therefore according to lichen there should be no striving for justice or democracy.

This lack of ideology and fallacious reasoning is a major reason for the lack of solidarity and is unfortunately commonplace among the so-called “Left”. It a real pity and until the “Left” embrace ideology of solidarity and justice and truth and trust it makes building a real movement extremely difficult.

]]> By: ajohnstone http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47325 ajohnstone Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:49:07 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47325 "Such actions might lay the ground work for future nationalizations of basic and vital industries, and, by extension, a more socially planned and democratically determined distribution of the benefits of our labor." Fraid this is a cul de sac that many on the Left have gone down . Here in the UK we have had nationalisation advocated for decades by the Labour Party and the 57 assorted varieties of Leninists. Certainly , it is not the "production by freely associated men" which you desire . Under Capitalism, relations between human beings within production necessarily present themselves as relations between things (money and commodities). “Only the conventions of everyday life,” Marx writes in Contribution, “make it appear commonplace and ordinary that social relations of production should assume the shape of things, so that the relations into which people enter in the course of their work appear as relations of things to one and another and of things to people.” People are so used to the relations of commodity production that they find it difficult to imagine social relations of production that are not mediated by the exchange of commodities and money, which is one reason that reformist ideas manage to seem so pragmatic. Reformists have trouble understanding that commodities and money only exist under specific relations of production, and this also accounts for their inability to imagine fundamentally different social relations where there is no need or room for those economic forms to exist. Indeed , the failure of the Russian Revolution can be described as premature - the material ground-work had been insufficiently developed , one of the pre-conditions required for Socialism . However let us not over look while this obstacle no longer applies in the modern world , the other pre-requisite remains , the need for majority understanding and the desire for Socialism. Only the vast majority, acting consciously in its own interests, for itself, by itself, can create socialism , democratically achieved through force of numbers . Even if we could conceive of a leader-ridden working class displacing the capitalist class from power as in the case of 1917 such an immature class would be helpless to undertake the responsibilities of democratic socialist society. “Such actions might lay the ground work for future nationalizations of basic and vital industries, and, by extension, a more socially planned and democratically determined distribution of the benefits of our labor.”
Fraid this is a cul de sac that many on the Left have gone down . Here in the UK we have had nationalisation advocated for decades by the Labour Party and the 57 assorted varieties of Leninists. Certainly , it is not the “production by freely associated men” which you desire .
Under Capitalism, relations between human beings within production necessarily present themselves as relations between things (money and commodities). “Only the conventions of everyday life,” Marx writes in Contribution, “make it appear commonplace and ordinary that social relations of production should assume the shape of things, so that the relations into which people enter in the course of their work appear as relations of things to one and another and of things to people.”
People are so used to the relations of commodity production that they find it difficult to imagine social relations of production that are not mediated by the exchange of commodities and money, which is one reason that reformist ideas manage to seem so pragmatic. Reformists have trouble understanding that commodities and money only exist under specific relations of production, and this also accounts for their inability to imagine fundamentally different social relations where there is no need or room for those economic forms to exist.
Indeed , the failure of the Russian Revolution can be described as premature – the material ground-work had been insufficiently developed , one of the pre-conditions required for Socialism . However let us not over look while this obstacle no longer applies in the modern world , the other pre-requisite remains , the need for majority understanding and the desire for Socialism.
Only the vast majority, acting consciously in its own interests, for itself, by itself, can create socialism , democratically achieved through force of numbers . Even if we could conceive of a leader-ridden working class displacing the capitalist class from power as in the case of 1917 such an immature class would be helpless to undertake the responsibilities of democratic socialist society.

]]> By: Ian http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47322 Ian Wed, 03 Jun 2009 00:32:36 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47322 Wow this is some indoctrinated stuff. Do you guys really believe that everyone should get the exact same amount of everything regardless of how hard they work or how talented they are? What is the possible incentive to work hard in that society? It is completely incompatible with human nature and is only possible through tyranny. Democracy is by definition majority tyranny. This is why there is not one truly democratic nation on earth. Look at California's prop 8 for your example of democracy. While there are certainly abuses in our system this tyrannical call for absolute socialism is both naive and dangerous. Now verbally flog me as you will Wow this is some indoctrinated stuff. Do you guys really believe that everyone should get the exact same amount of everything regardless of how hard they work or how talented they are? What is the possible incentive to work hard in that society? It is completely incompatible with human nature and is only possible through tyranny. Democracy is by definition majority tyranny. This is why there is not one truly democratic nation on earth. Look at California’s prop 8 for your example of democracy. While there are certainly abuses in our system this tyrannical call for absolute socialism is both naive and dangerous.

Now verbally flog me as you will

]]> By: lichen http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47320 lichen Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:49:11 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47320 Yes, Bozh, you are right, many people are not aware of their just human rights and how they need to be enforced; about how wrong it is to setup communities without them. With a lot of electoral and media reform and constitutional reform, education and direct action with those of us like minded, we can start to change things and put a different system into place. Yes, Bozh, you are right, many people are not aware of their just human rights and how they need to be enforced; about how wrong it is to setup communities without them. With a lot of electoral and media reform and constitutional reform, education and direct action with those of us like minded, we can start to change things and put a different system into place.

]]> By: bozh http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47306 bozh Tue, 02 Jun 2009 12:52:47 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47306 lichen, you have given us a good list of our needs and our rights. and you haven't used label for our wants/needs/rights. it is a good thing not to label our rights. and throughout panhuman history despotic people knew that but not most of the people subjugated by them. recent election and massive rejection of nader proves that 98% of amers are spurning their needs/rights. so, the way to break the chains is to educate people about their rights. we on DV add a few drops to the pond of knowledge. In time, US governance might change to the degree that everybody wld receive their inheritance. we are just starting to educate people. About 2 to 3% of amers already know their rights. That is almost 2mn people. Slowly will grow in numbers. i do affirm that we need a political party that opposes uncle sam's party. tnx lichen, you have given us a good list of our needs and our rights.
and you haven’t used label for our wants/needs/rights.
it is a good thing not to label our rights.

and throughout panhuman history despotic people knew that but not most of the people subjugated by them.
recent election and massive rejection of nader proves that 98% of amers are spurning their needs/rights.

so, the way to break the chains is to educate people about their rights.
we on DV add a few drops to the pond of knowledge. In time, US governance might change to the degree that everybody wld receive their inheritance.
we are just starting to educate people. About 2 to 3% of amers already know their rights. That is almost 2mn people. Slowly will grow in numbers.
i do affirm that we need a political party that opposes uncle sam’s party. tnx

]]> By: Tennessee-Chavizta http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47300 Tennessee-Chavizta Tue, 02 Jun 2009 03:37:58 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47300 Lichen: Go here to read the truth about Lenin and Trotsky: http://www.marxist.com/LeninAndTrotsky/ Lichen: Go here to read the truth about Lenin and Trotsky:

http://www.marxist.com/LeninAndTrotsky/

]]> By: Tennessee-Chavizta http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47299 Tennessee-Chavizta Tue, 02 Jun 2009 03:36:09 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47299 lichen: haha of course you are not enemy. I am not a Republican who gets angry with people, just by debating. I think you are mistaking Stalinism, and centralist-dictatorships like Mugabe with socialism. Real socialism is freedom for the majority. Real socialism is where workers are the rulers of the country and the owners of wealth. It is extreme, individualist democracy. By the way the Russian Revolution got betrayed by Stalin. Go here to read all about it, before you generalize like you do: http://www.trotsky.net/trotsky_year/rise_of_stalinism.html . . . lichen: haha of course you are not enemy. I am not a Republican who gets angry with people, just by debating. I think you are mistaking Stalinism, and centralist-dictatorships like Mugabe with socialism. Real socialism is freedom for the majority. Real socialism is where workers are the rulers of the country and the owners of wealth. It is extreme, individualist democracy.

By the way the Russian Revolution got betrayed by Stalin. Go here to read all about it, before you generalize like you do:

http://www.trotsky.net/trotsky_year/rise_of_stalinism.html

.

.
.

]]> By: lichen http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47297 lichen Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:55:53 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47297 An ideology is responsible for the crimes committed in it's name, just like a religion is; it does not matter any more what Marx, or Milton Friedman, or jesus "really said," or if you feel their ideas haven't "really" been applied yet. The free market, communism, and christianity are culpable for the crimes committed in their name, and what is real and what has happened is more true than what theoretically was supposed to happen. An ideology is responsible for the crimes committed in it’s name, just like a religion is; it does not matter any more what Marx, or Milton Friedman, or jesus “really said,” or if you feel their ideas haven’t “really” been applied yet. The free market, communism, and christianity are culpable for the crimes committed in their name, and what is real and what has happened is more true than what theoretically was supposed to happen.

]]> By: lichen http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47296 lichen Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:52:51 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47296 TNC, you are a spamming, screaming, incoherent troll of the lowest grade; an ideologue so possessed by ignorance that you can't see that someone can promote economic equality, indeed, a grade of it far more equitable than regurgitated industrialist19th century phrases ever dreamed of, without advocating the tired rhetoric or ideology of marxism in order to get there. It is extremely amusing how you constantly call for 'unification' and 'solidary' of the people in this country but you refuse to admit to the existence of people with similar views but which don't define themselves as ideologues. I see people like you and deadbeat never bother to comment on articles like the recent one about the practical ways to start a cooperative society in the US, but you jump all over irrelevant 'left luggage' articles that aren't even about this country. I have said countless times in my posts what I think, as I will copy/paste below. I support a complete end to all wars, all tensions, military bases, and nuclear weapons held by the united states; I support an energy policy that powers the entire planet with only tidal, solar, wind, and geothermal power; I support economic justice, full employment with democratic workers cooperatives where everyone makes an equal, living wage; free college education, free healthcare, guaranteed housing, organic food and clean water. I believe, further, that there is ultimately a better solution than party/parliamentary politics, and that is direct, decentralized participatory democracy. Otherwise, real democracy needs to take place with strong social movements making and winning demands no matter who is in office or how entrenched the political status quo is; representative-voting is not enough. I hold that children deserve the same, equal rights and protections as adults; that corporal punishment, male genital mutilation/circumcision, and all forms of emotional and physical mistreatment should and must be banned in order to create a peaceful world. If you choose to see me as your enemy because I refuse to use outdated, archaic labels and worship Marx, than do so; the communist revolutions are over, and you will win no new converts. TNC, you are a spamming, screaming, incoherent troll of the lowest grade; an ideologue so possessed by ignorance that you can’t see that someone can promote economic equality, indeed, a grade of it far more equitable than regurgitated industrialist19th century phrases ever dreamed of, without advocating the tired rhetoric or ideology of marxism in order to get there. It is extremely amusing how you constantly call for ‘unification’ and ‘solidary’ of the people in this country but you refuse to admit to the existence of people with similar views but which don’t define themselves as ideologues. I see people like you and deadbeat never bother to comment on articles like the recent one about the practical ways to start a cooperative society in the US, but you jump all over irrelevant ‘left luggage’ articles that aren’t even about this country. I have said countless times in my posts what I think, as I will copy/paste below.

I support a complete end to all wars, all tensions, military bases, and nuclear weapons held by the united states; I support an energy policy that powers the entire planet with only tidal, solar, wind, and geothermal power; I support economic justice, full employment with democratic workers cooperatives where everyone makes an equal, living wage; free college education, free healthcare, guaranteed housing, organic food and clean water. I believe, further, that there is ultimately a better solution than party/parliamentary politics, and that is direct, decentralized participatory democracy. Otherwise, real democracy needs to take place with strong social movements making and winning demands no matter who is in office or how entrenched the political status quo is; representative-voting is not enough. I hold that children deserve the same, equal rights and protections as adults; that corporal punishment, male genital mutilation/circumcision, and all forms of emotional and physical mistreatment should and must be banned in order to create a peaceful world.

If you choose to see me as your enemy because I refuse to use outdated, archaic labels and worship Marx, than do so; the communist revolutions are over, and you will win no new converts.

]]> By: Tennessee-Chavizta http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47295 Tennessee-Chavizta Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:35:28 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47295 lichen: you are the one who lives in a coocoon, druged by TV. But wake up, USA is really poor with the capitalist system. Most americans are poor. With the capitalist system 5% of US citizens own 90% of USA's wealth, what more slavery you want? even worse than USSR. USA has lots of people sleeping in cars, tents, 40 millions in extreme poverty and about 1 out of 6 children in hunger. Then there are the other capitalist countries, like Mexico, UK, China, India, Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Haiti, Peru, Colombia, Philipines. etc. face in capitalist systems the majority are slaves and beating the bullets, while a few concentrate lots of wealth and live like kings. What we need in USA is a socialist system, in order to increase the living standards of americans. Socialism is so good that it open new opportunities for americans, like going to a doctor, going to college. Socialism would include millions of americans into the wealth and joys that USA produces. Right now millions of americans are alienated and banned from participating in the wealth of this country. Because the damn capitalist laws enables a few to own all the oil, gold and wealth of this country. We need socialism electorally or thru a revolutionary coup de etat. . lichen: you are the one who lives in a coocoon, druged by TV. But wake up, USA is really poor with the capitalist system. Most americans are poor. With the capitalist system 5% of US citizens own 90% of USA’s wealth, what more slavery you want? even worse than USSR.

USA has lots of people sleeping in cars, tents, 40 millions in extreme poverty and about 1 out of 6 children in hunger.

Then there are the other capitalist countries, like Mexico, UK, China, India, Pakistan, Somalia, Nigeria, Haiti, Peru, Colombia, Philipines. etc. face in capitalist systems the majority are slaves and beating the bullets, while a few concentrate lots of wealth and live like kings.

What we need in USA is a socialist system, in order to increase the living standards of americans.

Socialism is so good that it open new opportunities for americans, like going to a doctor, going to college.

Socialism would include millions of americans into the wealth and joys that USA produces. Right now millions of americans are alienated and banned from participating in the wealth of this country.

Because the damn capitalist laws enables a few to own all the oil, gold and wealth of this country.

We need socialism electorally or thru a revolutionary coup de etat.

.

]]> By: Tennessee-Chavizta http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47294 Tennessee-Chavizta Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:26:20 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47294 barry99: True if it wasn't for socialists and leftists, the US minimum wage would be like 2 dollars an hour, and there wouldn't be any public schools, and any food-stamp program. Socialism is so good that it is the only ideology i know that proposes a higher minimum wage than capitalist parties. Most American Socialist Parties propose a minimum wage of 15 dollars an hour, and also workers-control of corporations. barry99: True if it wasn’t for socialists and leftists, the US minimum wage would be like 2 dollars an hour, and there wouldn’t be any public schools, and any food-stamp program. Socialism is so good that it is the only ideology i know that proposes a higher minimum wage than capitalist parties. Most American Socialist Parties propose a minimum wage of 15 dollars an hour, and also workers-control of corporations.

]]> By: Tennessee-Chavizta http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47293 Tennessee-Chavizta Tue, 02 Jun 2009 02:23:02 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47293 it is sad that this nation which was an economic powerful nation, has been destroyed by the corrupted plutocratic Democrat and Republican Parties, along with the different corporate lobbies, with the zionist lobby, and with the capitalist philosophy that has been the main culprit, the great ideology in the essense of America. The Free Market egocentric, selfish ideology of Ayn Rand, Adam Smith, John Locke, John Stuart Mill and other bourgeoise thinkers and egoists. We must burry that ideology as failed and wrong and give way toward Leninist, Marxist, Christian, humanist and socialist, collective ideology and doctrine. USA was a very developed nation producing a lot of wealth, and statibility for most US citizens compared other poorer countries and to third world nations with more corrupt governments. USA has never been a socialist nation, however the capitalist-welfare american system provided stability for most americans thru the a "trickle down capitalist welfare system". Unfortunately, thanks to the mafia-cartels of both capitalist parties (Democrats and Republicans)this 'trickle down welfare capitalist system' which has provided stability for most of americans is coming to an end ending !! THE MAIN REASON OF WHY USA CITIZENS ARE NOT REVOLTING, IS THAT THE US CENTRAL BANK (FEDERAL RESERVE) IS PUMPING DOLLARS INTO THE US ECONOMY WITHOUT END, AND BACKING THOSE DOLLARS WITH LOANS. HOWEVER SOONER OR LATER THE US ECONOMY WILL GRIND TO A HALT !! IN OTHERS WORDS THE US CITIZENS ARE NOT REVOLTING BECAUSE USA IS NOT AT A REVOLUTIONARY OBJECTIVE SITUATION YET !! Sooner or later this 'tricke down welfare capitalist system' will not provide bread for all, and will morph a plutocratic corporate capitalist system that can only provide stability, food and wealth for the upper bourgeoise classes of America. when that time comes we will see a revolutionary situation, when the proletariat take the bull by its horns and overthrows the corporate corrupted capitalist system for complete emancipation of the workign classes of this country HERE ARE THE MAIN 3 TRAITS OF A REVOLUTIONARY SITUATION IN USA: # 1 - When it is impossible for the rich people of this country (like Bill Gates, Jennifer Lopez, Tom Cruise, Donald Trump, Al Gore, Ross Perot, Dick Cheney, etc.) to maintain their wealth without any change; when there is an economic crisis, in one form or another, among the rich people, a crisis in the policy of the rich ruling class, leading to a fissure through which the discontent and indignation of middle and lower classes of America burst forth. For a socialist-revolution to take place, it is usually insufficient for the middle and lower classes not to want to live in their old comfortable and stable way; it is also necessary that the rich upper millionaire class should be unable to live in their old comfortable way. # 2 - When the suffering and the needs of the middle and lower working classes of this country have grown more acute than usual # 3 - When, as a consequence of the above causes, there is a considerable increase in the activity of the middle and working classes, who uncomplainingly allow themselves to be robbed in peace time, but, in turbulent times, are drawn both by all the circumstances of the crisis *and by the upper classes themselves* into independent historical action. Let other people you know learn about socialism! Spread the word... the more people who know the truth, the greater the force against the capitalist system! Resistance forever! ......................./´¯/) ....................,/¯../ .................../..../ ............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸ ........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\ ........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') .........\.................'...../ ..........''...\.......... _.·´ ............\.............. STICK UP YOUR MIDDLE FINGER TO US IMPERIALISM AND CAPITALIST OPPRESSION! . it is sad that this nation which was an economic powerful nation, has been destroyed by the corrupted plutocratic Democrat and Republican Parties, along with the different corporate lobbies, with the zionist lobby, and with the capitalist philosophy that has been the main culprit, the great ideology in the essense of America. The Free Market egocentric, selfish ideology of Ayn Rand, Adam Smith, John Locke, John Stuart Mill and other bourgeoise thinkers and egoists.

We must burry that ideology as failed and wrong and give way toward Leninist, Marxist, Christian, humanist and socialist, collective ideology and doctrine.

USA was a very developed nation producing a lot of wealth, and statibility for most US citizens compared other poorer countries and to third world nations with more corrupt governments.

USA has never been a socialist nation, however the capitalist-welfare american system provided stability for most americans thru the a “trickle down capitalist welfare system”.

Unfortunately, thanks to the mafia-cartels of both capitalist parties (Democrats and Republicans)this ‘trickle down welfare capitalist system’ which has provided stability for most of americans is coming to an end ending !!

THE MAIN REASON OF WHY USA CITIZENS ARE NOT REVOLTING, IS THAT THE US CENTRAL BANK (FEDERAL RESERVE) IS PUMPING DOLLARS INTO THE US ECONOMY WITHOUT END, AND BACKING THOSE DOLLARS WITH LOANS. HOWEVER SOONER OR LATER THE US ECONOMY WILL GRIND TO A HALT !!

IN OTHERS WORDS THE US CITIZENS ARE NOT REVOLTING BECAUSE USA IS NOT AT A REVOLUTIONARY OBJECTIVE SITUATION YET !!

Sooner or later this ‘tricke down welfare capitalist system’ will not provide bread for all, and will morph a plutocratic corporate capitalist system that can only provide stability, food and wealth for the upper bourgeoise classes of America.

when that time comes we will see a revolutionary situation, when the proletariat take the bull by its horns and overthrows the corporate corrupted capitalist system for complete emancipation of the workign classes of this country

HERE ARE THE MAIN 3 TRAITS OF A REVOLUTIONARY SITUATION IN USA:

# 1 – When it is impossible for the rich people of this country (like Bill Gates, Jennifer Lopez, Tom Cruise, Donald Trump, Al Gore, Ross Perot, Dick Cheney, etc.) to maintain their wealth without any change; when there is an economic crisis, in one form or another, among the rich people, a crisis in the policy of the rich ruling class, leading to a fissure through which the discontent and indignation of middle and lower classes of America burst forth. For a socialist-revolution to take place, it is usually insufficient for the middle and lower classes not to want to live in their old comfortable and stable way; it is also necessary that the rich upper millionaire class should be unable to live in their old comfortable way.

# 2 – When the suffering and the needs of the middle and lower working classes of this country have grown more acute than usual

# 3 – When, as a consequence of the above causes, there is a considerable increase in the activity of the middle and working classes, who uncomplainingly allow themselves to be robbed in peace time, but, in turbulent times, are drawn both by all the circumstances of the crisis *and by the upper classes themselves* into independent historical action.

Let other people you know learn about socialism! Spread the word… the more people who know the truth, the greater the force against the capitalist system! Resistance forever!

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STICK UP YOUR MIDDLE FINGER TO US IMPERIALISM AND CAPITALIST OPPRESSION!

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]]> By: Barry99 http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47290 Barry99 Tue, 02 Jun 2009 01:58:33 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47290 What happened in Russia bears little relationship to Marx - who DID have a lot to say about America's 'Negro Question,' as well as colonial exploitation elsewhere - and the condition and status of women. It has been Marxists who have been in the front lines of American labor struggles. In fact, there is no liberal movement today in America that does not count Marxists among its ardent advocates. I don't think Marx however, could be considered an environmentalist - he was more concerned with who owned the factory than whatever contents its spilled into the earth and sky. But a Marxian analysis CAN include the environment. That is basically a left-green position. What happened in Russia bears little relationship to Marx – who DID have a lot to say about America’s ‘Negro Question,’ as well as colonial exploitation elsewhere – and the condition and status of women. It has been Marxists who have been in the front lines of American labor struggles. In fact, there is no liberal movement today in America that does not count Marxists among its ardent advocates. I don’t think Marx however, could be considered an environmentalist – he was more concerned with who owned the factory than whatever contents its spilled into the earth and sky. But a Marxian analysis CAN include the environment. That is basically a left-green position.

]]> By: lichen http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47287 lichen Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:29:53 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47287 Actually, I don't give a damn about what Marx did or did not say, do, or have; I do not buy into worshipped demagogues. My point was that the rise of right wing communism in the USSR, China, and other places, as well as the the rise of right wing social welfare states, however big or small they might have been in places like the US, etc, were also flawed because they were absolutely not coupled with any of the twentieth-twenty-first century developments that I mentioned. And pursuing marxism alone without bothering to mention anything else will not magically bring you those things; only open, bold pursuit will. Actually, I don’t give a damn about what Marx did or did not say, do, or have; I do not buy into worshipped demagogues. My point was that the rise of right wing communism in the USSR, China, and other places, as well as the the rise of right wing social welfare states, however big or small they might have been in places like the US, etc, were also flawed because they were absolutely not coupled with any of the twentieth-twenty-first century developments that I mentioned. And pursuing marxism alone without bothering to mention anything else will not magically bring you those things; only open, bold pursuit will.

]]> By: lichen http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47284 lichen Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:22:02 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47284 Yes, actually, Deadbeat, those things were lacking in Marx; the evidence is that he lived in the 1800's and the developments of these movements had not come about yet, did not feature in his philosophy and thus he could be used by fanatic right wing ideologues to do terrible things. Thankfully us modern left have a wide variety of philosophies and ideas and can focus on specific policies and not latch onto 19th century dogma; we can see that acheiving solidarity amongst other people and the human race as a whole will bring about these things. And yes, Marxism is a rigid, dogmatic ideology for many people, having nothing whatsoever to do with a genuine concern for other people, the earth, or equality; just labels and going-nowhere theory. Get out of your lazy cocoon and perhaps you will find that 'evidence' yourself; but oh yes, you expect a mythical "left" to do everything for you, to bow at your feet with long, flattering explanations. Yes, actually, Deadbeat, those things were lacking in Marx; the evidence is that he lived in the 1800′s and the developments of these movements had not come about yet, did not feature in his philosophy and thus he could be used by fanatic right wing ideologues to do terrible things. Thankfully us modern left have a wide variety of philosophies and ideas and can focus on specific policies and not latch onto 19th century dogma; we can see that acheiving solidarity amongst other people and the human race as a whole will bring about these things.

And yes, Marxism is a rigid, dogmatic ideology for many people, having nothing whatsoever to do with a genuine concern for other people, the earth, or equality; just labels and going-nowhere theory. Get out of your lazy cocoon and perhaps you will find that ‘evidence’ yourself; but oh yes, you expect a mythical “left” to do everything for you, to bow at your feet with long, flattering explanations.

]]> By: Jeff http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/what-is-the-fetishism-of-commodities/#comment-47281 Jeff Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:43:56 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8492#comment-47281 Canada seems to be accused of being socialist. Were it not for its' location geographically in the world, Canada may have been a utopia or a hell hole. What actually is it right now? Close but no cigar on both counts. Canada seems to be accused of being socialist. Were it not for its’ location geographically in the world, Canada may have been a utopia or a hell hole. What actually is it right now? Close but no cigar on both counts.

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