If we keep on with business as usual, the Earth will be warmed more every year; drought and floods will be endemic; many more cities, provinces, and whole nations will be submerged beneath the waves – unless heroic worldwide engineering countermeasures are taken. In the longer run, still more dire consequences may follow, including the collapse of the West Antarctic ice sheet, and the inundation of almost all the costal cities on the planet. Carl Sagan

Come on is that true well it has already started and these clear thinkers in the States the answer so far is not even a band aid it’s a joke and they still use illusion of knowledge third grade thinking and try the best they can to pit one group against another and so far it is working. This health care bill is a joke again the special interests and on climate change on this path many more will need health care and it’s the best we can do. Money power clear. James Hansen on Tuesday will be in West Virginia with I am sure a few younger folks trying to fight these special interests from destroying the land and the planet and like in the Amazon not a fair fight money and power and ugly is winning. Somehow we need to change this around a little and not easy is it. The media the money talks and shit walks. It looks like this summer will be an eye opener weather wise but again from the money power it’s the Sun. Carl Sagan put into words what we all think about and now today this second do the special interests even care about such thinking probably not.

Look again at that dot. That’s here. That’s home. That’s us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every “superstar”, every “supreme leader”, every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there — on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan

I don’t think we get a second chance on this all of us and the time is now to fight back so far not a fair fight that needs to change. Calm at peace knowledge and defense.

I think Hue is saying if you are a “leftist” then you are not a Zionist or Zionist sympathizer. End of story.

You, DB, seem to think there is a left who does sympathize with Zionist/Zionism. A clear definition would indicate that that BY DEFINITION is NOT possible.

But, to wit, there are many people who do NOT sympathize with Zionism in any way, and they would NOT consider themselves leftists.

I don’t think Marx is a benchmark for what we refer to as “leftist thinking”. I’ve always appreciated those who found something as they faintly see him as the promoter of a socialism and communialism and a pointed analysis of the pathologies of capitalism. Personally I can agree with the pieces and find Marx less than adequate as a solution for today.

I think decentralization, strong communities, capturing the common wealth for broad distribution, a sustainable approach to living (including our economics) is the direction for change to meet our needs. I think Marx interfers with that forward movement because his work interjects 19th and 20th century wars (hot and cold). That’s just far too much baggage to over come.

What I describe as the “Left” (with quotes) are folks POSING or POSTURING with those aforementioned value but when engaged really do not adhere to the aforementioned values. The “Left” has especially for the past three decades and a half has not function to promote the aforementioned values and has in fact used its influence to obscure solution to the very issue they claim to be “confronting”.

This has been very evident most recently during the anti-war movement in 2003-2004. You can read Dan E excellent account posted in this thread. The person who most embodies the tendency on the Left over the past 30 years is Noam Chomsky. Ironically Chomsky has been influential bringing a certain awareness of social ills to the public HOWEVER his analysis falls short in a profound manner that obscures real solutions and has the negative effect of aiding and abetting these problem.

Under his “tutelage” the Left has been drifting away from such ideas that could help develop an awareness that could help people really understand and challenge the social ills. One clear example has been the division on the Left regarding U.S. Zionism and the growth of its influence upon U.S. Foreign Policy. This is very obvious to any OBJECTIVE observer but it really reveal itself by the dismantling of the anti-war movement. The same holds true of the Left’s withdrawal of Marxist explanations especially during the Reagan counter-revolution. I would suggest Hue that you read some of the articles posted here on DV by Left Luggage for some fine critiques and analysis.

The problem right now Hue is how will the Left confront the “Left”. I think Dan E did an excellent job today in pointing out the obvious fallacies that the past 35 years has brought upon the Left.

How do you describe “Left”? Is there a true left and a fake left ? And if there is no distinction between the two but the left is to blame for allowing Zionism to flourish, what label should I use to describe myself if I generally agree with Marx and don’t care for Zionists? This is important because you never say “faux left” or “supposed left” but sometimes put it in quotes. It seems you hate a very useful word. There are quite a few people who believe in many of the same things you say who describe themselves as “leftists”…are they wrong? I do think your need to let the US -removed from Zionism- off the hook and give Libertarians an understanding nod could classify you as faux left, but you’ve bastardized the word and wouldn’t care that someone was taking it from you.

I know you may have explained this once, so forgive me if I have forgotten a good answer

Cheers

I don’t even know if I call myself a “leftist”. At least not the brand you seem to be dizzy about.

What becomes clear, Max, is that your sympathies are not with the downtrodden but with your fellow members of the “intermediate strata”. You fear and dislike the Super Rich, but you fear and dislike the Poor and the Near-Poor more.

The Left obviously was not immune to the reconfiguration of the political economy during the last 30 years. In fact the so-called oracles of the “Left” benefited materially by obscuring Capitalism and especially U.S. Zionism and the disparagement of Marxism. The Capitalist crisis however, IMO, is going to expose them for the fraudsters that they really are.

The fundamentals of war, poverty, rich/poor are fairly clear and the remedy is not class struggle.

And herein lies the ultimate explanation for why the Left is in such a miserable condition. Straight from the Chomkyite school and could have been expressed any better or more succinct than coming from Max Shields.

We are now facing a dire situtation. There are limits, and humans have and continue to heedless push forward as if those limits did not exist.

It will take structural changes, as well as cultural changes to meet this demand – it is unnegotiable. It cares not one iota about zionism, marxism; or whether one is an American or from Zimbagwe.

It is also an opportunity for a kind of re-birth, not only for human life, but for all of life on the planet.

Yes, there is a kind of evil that lurks here and there. The murderous gangs that wander the globe funded by American imperialism. But that won’t go away by simply ranting about it.

For us in the USA, our problems are deep, systemic and structural in nature. Our system of government is flawed, our economic system is predatory and pathological. The two feed off one another and create much of the world’s mayhem.

In a word – WE are the enemy. Zionism is an ugly version of our reflection. Our government and it’s economic masters have allowed the collusion to extend to this “state” of Israel. Why/How, because this political system has major flaws. It’s not a Jewish vote that politicians care about, it’s the economics of war which is tied to the preditory state of Israel. Zionism is a way to label the ugly preditory and racist state which is a reflection of what the US is, at bottom.

Obama is a player, he did not create the rules; he simply stepped up and said he wanted to play the game…and he is.

We need a vision, not a reaction to Zionism or even American Imperialism. And then we need to find ways to make that vision a reality; to build new structures, to decentralize and form new alliances locally, regionally and globally.

There is a transition in motion. It’s happening not because of Marx or Engels or anyone person, but because some of us see there is no other alternative and so things are happening, plans are not only in motion, action is being taken. But playing this parlor game, that Deadbeat and dan e have locked into is just a dead end wasted of vital energy.

The recent comments to this thread show much evidence in favor of being a generalist and not an obsessive specialist; why it is better to explore things and take what you want and then leave the dead gods and the ’sacred texts’ behind, move the fuck on.

There are world’s of differences between Marx and Darwin/Planck; i.e., there are not the same. But while a fact, it’s pretty damn irrelevant.

I don’t fear either rich or poor. I understand how these “strata”, if you will, come to be. Property owners own the government and the wealth; the latter keeps them rich because they are the only thing that matters in a plutocracy/faux democracy.

Voters of all ilk are the downtrodden. Marching off occasionally to the polls to vote is worse than a joke. Politicians don’t give a rat’s ass about voters; that abstract “little guy”. Politicians need money and Corporations and property owners need favors. That’s American democracy and capitalism – they live in the same bottle. AIPAC figures in but its a small piece of the pie.

And we, dan e, are left to squabble about f*cken Marx! Blah blah blah as the rich get rich, while marching the dumb asses off to war, destroying the planet and relentlessly killing babies, children and non-combatent adults.

The powerful just love you, dan e. Your lost in some parlor game looking to make sense of the obvious through some obscuity. You are POWERLESS. And that’s true because you haven’t a clue where the power really comes from. This is not Zionism – what a joke, you can jack off to that one for ever and the rich know they’ve buried you for good.

Zionism didn’t create this problem, dan e. Zionism is a flavor, a symptom; a kind of hitlerian version of what goes on here.
The very idea that you think Zionism created this f(cked up mess is a laugh and a half. While you rant about Zionism, the rich just keep on taking it, from you and your children and grand children. Open your eyes instead of looking a some bogeyman for the answer.

What we have here is anscient. Zionists are babes in the woods.

What does piss me off is that this Zionists crap has its place but when you start spreading it all over everything turn it into a bunch of bull shit. Soon you’ll be explaining earth quakes on the Zionists.

Marx ain’t the answer to this, no how no way. In what way would Marx square this circle? Kill the rich? Proletariet revolt turns Animal Farm? What’s your plan dan e?

If you don’t even understand the ABCs of power and wealth (Zionism is not the answer, by the way fella) than how in hell are you going to deal with this problem in any sane way. (By the way, danny boy, where does Marx talk about Zionists?)

And there are also the trotskyists whose only interest is in sitting back and attacking “the left” for not being this or that instead of doing stuff themselves, and calling other people “utopian” while not examining their own religous marxism

This was address to me and calls for a response. To label Marxism as a “religion” is clearly not to understand what Marxism is. Marxism is the antithesis of religion. Marxism is not about viewing the world “on faith”. Marxism is about analysis and confronting fallacies. Utopianism is about faith. Much of the environmental proposals to deal with current societal ills are based on utopianism. For example the advocacy of “localism” misses how Capitalism operates as a global system of exploitation. That is a huge error of omission that environmental advocates ignores while promoting their well meaning solutions. Only “religious-like” zeal allow one to draw such conclusion.

Challenging Capitalism is difficult unfortunately the Left during the past 3 decades made similar false charges against Marxism and veered away from it. Now that the Capitalist crisis is going full tilt interest in Marxism is on the rise. The theories and the explanations never went away unfortunately the Left substituted a sterile “U.S. Imperialism” explanation that inspired no one and challenged nothing.

in fact, one can define and redefine any ism in perpetuum and that process never ends and yet defining isms leads to rancour, anger, frustration.
the reason for that outcome is that, as far as my understandings of the implicatoty structure of langauge goes, the answers true or false do not pertain to an ideology
answers true or false only pertain to an aspect of an ism.
an aspect of an ism such as, Yahweh spoke to moshe on mt sinai, being a descriptive statement, can be evalauted as true or false.

my answer to that is firm and conclusive: No, yahweh had not spoken to moshe. We only know that moshe claims god spoke to him not that he did. And there were no other witnesses who have seen that.

in conclusion, it is not an ism, gun, or bat that do a thing; it is people who do that.
and if zionists have greater control of US than any other ethnics, ethnics let them.
as biden said, I am a zionist! tnx

Capitalism itself is a pathology. Trouble with you Max, you aren’t really stupid but you’re ignorant of anything but pro-capitalist ideological snowjobbery.

One proposition of yours I find I agree with u[ to a pt: Zionism in most ways is not different from colonialism, in fact it is one example of it.

What started as a relatively minor branch of US capitalist enterprise now has achieved a position of dominance in it. US Imperialism has largely if not entirely been hijacked to serve the purposes of US & Israeli Zionist-Imperialists. Ever since the Israeli fifth column in the US morphed itself into AIPAC & was liberated from the requirement to register as a Foreign Agent, US foreign & military policy has been bent more and more to serve the interests of the Israeli state, which have been put ahead of the US state’s own imperial interests.
However there is still a section of the US ruling class including some Jewish members who still see “the bottom line” as the bottom line, and don’t see the Zionist push to bomb Iran into chaos as good for business. IMO this “green revolution” enterprise in Iran now is the chosen instrument to hopefully overcome political resistance to the plan to bomb Tehran.

Oh man, rereading your post I’m struck again by the level of ignorance embodied. “Privatizing the commons” — hehe, that’s where young Karl started, with the efforts to preserve traditional rights to gather wood in the common forest from the predatory designs of fledgling German capitalism. “Primitive Accumulation” is the technical term.

What becomes clear, Max, is that your sympathies are not with the downtrodden but with your fellow members of the “intermediate strata”. You fear and dislike the Super Rich, but you fear and dislike the Poor and the Near-Poor more.
So at times people like you are found on the same side of the barricades as people like me, but most of the time you’re over there helping the capitalists obscure from the poor the real reasons for their poverty. And working overtime to obscure from those whose impulse to oppose criminal wars/occupations, the real reasons these wars are launched; to obscure who planned and organized, and who sold the wars to the public.
BTW, have you checked out Grant Smith’s work re the “Lobby”? Also I forgot to mention Lee O’Brien’s little book “US Jewish Organizations and Israel”, a cursory glance at which will show that US Zionism is not some “minor”political trend, but an enormous network of organization and great accumulated capitalist wealth.

Since you are not providing specific references it’s hard to know what you’re talking about. It sounds, as I said, like a parlor game of 6 points of separation; all roads lead back to Zionists no matter. I find that lacking in any form of substanitive history, logic or reasoning; “A Cuban guy” saying something means NOTHING.

I don’t think Marx and Engeks (two non-practicing Jews – at least to my knowledge) are the answer to this issue of Zionism per se and the nexus you make to the Fed Reserve, etc. I find Zionism has become for a few, here, an excuse for American imperialism. One doesn’t have to for go one for the other. That is the point I’ve made time and again. Discerning one from the other, understanding convergence where it exists is essential to understanding the problem and what needs to be done.

I do think that Capitalism has major pathologies and that these pathologies, as Bozh noted, are derived from who controls natural resources. That is the most fundamental issue – privatizing the commons. I don’t seen Zionism as different from the colonization the West has perpetuated round the globe.

I don’t see Marx as the cure for these pathologies. I think this can be done without dusting off Das Kapital and trying to figure out what this dude was trying to say. The answers are in front of us. The fundamentals of war, poverty, rich/poor are fairly clear and the remedy is not class struggle.

so, the question arises who’s the teacher here? It seems to me that the ‘jews’ in gov’ts or media behave exactly as media had behaved and behaves now.

US had A-bombed japan prior to mass immigration of ‘jews’ to US and when they had been much less influential than now.

if ‘jews’ have displaced anglos from top layer of command, the former commanders appear little worried; i.e., none, as far as i know, complains being relegated to the back benches.

non-commanders are mighty worried. I cannot see why because US is on the same course as always before; ‘jews’ come, ‘jews’ go but missiles kill and kill and kill. tnx bozhidar balkas vancouver

I voted for and am still trying the best I can to support President Obama.

P.S.

The name Barack Obama used to bring other historic names to mind such as Martin Luther King, John F. Kennedy, Fredrick Douglass, W.E.B. Du Bois.

Recently the name Uncle Tom keeps coming to mind and I can’t seem the shake it.

Change Congress / Change America: http://change-congress.org/video/