Comments on: Showdown in Honduras: The Rise and Uncertain Future of the Coup http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:49:48 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Josie Michel-Brüning http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49128 Josie Michel-Brüning Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:39:28 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49128 First, I don't want to forget to thank Benjamin Dangl for his good article. Second, I want to tell Tennessee-With-Zelaya that I do know about the respective roles of your consecutive presidents, the CIA, war lords and those groups initiated by the CIA - now so called N.G.O.s fullfilling the intervention policy by "Public Diplomacy" and financial support by U.S. tax payers and your countries lobbies in your history. Moreover, when reading all the comments I do notice that most of you are aware of what is going on. U.S. people are suffering as well as the majority of the people in the world from the exploitation of people and nature under the arrogated leadership of the elite of your country. (Formerly, they had to suffer from European arrogance and empire dreams.) So, you are in the pool position, by now, but seem to resignate, limitting yourself on complains to each other. I, myself, was born in 1944 in Western Germany, that means I grew up in the ruins of World War II, while my parents were ashamed of not having resisted the Nazis and mainly busy to build up there house again and for being able to earn our living. Meanwhile, we were captured by Marshall plan, our secret services working together with your's, many of them - as it turned out later on - former Nazis. However, we had to be a bulwark against communism, so we were indoctrinated respectively to hate our neighbours in the East. Therefore, we were allowed to make some compromizes in our social system, so, that we would not take refuge in the former GDR. As soon as the the wall was fallen, capitalism showed its true face also to us. This is an abbreviated description. Nevertheless, it is true. These experiences led among others to be more aware what happened to other countries like your neighbours in your back yard fighting for their emancipation from the leadership of your "elite". What I want to tell you in my poor English, is that we should not fight against each others but unite. First, I don’t want to forget to thank Benjamin Dangl for his good article.
Second, I want to tell Tennessee-With-Zelaya that I do know about the respective roles of your consecutive presidents, the CIA, war lords and those groups initiated by the CIA – now so called N.G.O.s fullfilling the intervention policy by “Public Diplomacy” and financial support by U.S. tax payers and your countries lobbies in your history.
Moreover, when reading all the comments I do notice that most of you are aware of what is going on.
U.S. people are suffering as well as the majority of the people in the world from the exploitation of people and nature under the arrogated leadership of the elite of your country. (Formerly, they had to suffer from European arrogance and empire dreams.)
So, you are in the pool position, by now, but seem to resignate, limitting yourself on complains to each other.
I, myself, was born in 1944 in Western Germany, that means I grew up in the ruins of World War II, while my parents were ashamed of not having resisted the Nazis and mainly busy to build up there house again and for being able to earn our living. Meanwhile, we were captured by Marshall plan, our secret services working together with your’s, many of them – as it turned out later on – former Nazis.
However, we had to be a bulwark against communism, so we were indoctrinated respectively to hate our neighbours in the East. Therefore, we were allowed to make some compromizes in our social system, so, that we would not take refuge in the former GDR.
As soon as the the wall was fallen, capitalism showed its true face also to us. This is an abbreviated description. Nevertheless, it is true.
These experiences led among others to be more aware what happened to other countries like your neighbours in your back yard fighting for their emancipation from the leadership of your “elite”.
What I want to tell you in my poor English, is that we should not fight against each others but unite.

]]> By: brian http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49124 brian Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:03:36 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49124 My letter to american blog Gatewaypundit: http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/07/honduran-democracy-protesters-lash-out.html Given his support for the Coup and other errors: Hi gateway pundit I see youve banned me from your site.: Gatewaypundit...Is this how you treat contrary opinions?..I presume truth and freedom are two things you dont handle very well. So i will write you from here. On your site, youve posted a number of interesting if provocative articles: against Cynthia McKinney (whom you call a moon bat) and the free gaza movement crew who were kidnapped in international ,water while delivering supplies to people of gaza currently being Holocausted by Israel; in support of alleged vote fraud and a colour revolution in Iran, in spite of no evidence of vote fraud. And finally your support of a real coup, complete with military repression of those who object to their elected govt being overthrown, their constitutional rights revoked (ironic), and media censorship Posters on your site have been calling for assasinations against the legitimate head of state of Honduras (Zelaya) and even Obama. All this ironic goven you claim to promote democracy and human rights... SO let me ask you: 1. Is it right for a boat in international waters to be attacked and border by a navy, and its occupants carted off to jail? 2.. What is your opinion on the Holocaust being committed by Israel against the palestinians with US tax money? 3. US arms israel with US weapons...Israel uses them against lebanon (2006) and Gaza(2008) in violation of US law: the Arms Export Control Act. Dont you thinl Israel should be brought to task for this breach? 4. Why are you supporting a coup in Honduras, where the couip masters have squashed any media not backing the coup masters? 5. Why are you so keen to support the dissidents in Iran but not the dissidents in Honduras? The latter are opposing a real coup, the former are only opposing democractic elections there candidate lost? 6. You call former congress woman and Us presidential candidate Cynthia McKinney a : 'hateful nutjob'..while being oblivious to the real hatred israel and zionist jews have to both palestinians and americans...i allude to the attack on the US Liberty, american citizens and spying on US and selling of US secrets. Your banning people like me, indictes you dont like contrary opinions. Your comments? regards Brian My letter to american blog Gatewaypundit:

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/07/honduran-democracy-protesters-lash-out.html
Given his support for the Coup and other errors:

Hi gateway pundit
I see youve banned me from your site.: Gatewaypundit…Is this how you treat contrary opinions?..I presume truth and freedom are two things you dont handle very well. So i will write you from here.
On your site, youve posted a number of interesting if provocative articles:
against Cynthia McKinney (whom you call a moon bat) and the free gaza movement crew who were kidnapped in international ,water while delivering supplies to people of gaza currently being Holocausted by Israel; in support of alleged vote fraud and a colour revolution in Iran, in spite of no evidence of vote fraud. And finally your support of a real coup, complete with military repression of those who object to their elected govt being overthrown, their constitutional rights revoked (ironic), and media censorship
Posters on your site have been calling for assasinations against the legitimate head of state of Honduras (Zelaya) and even Obama.
All this ironic goven you claim to promote democracy and human rights…
SO let me ask you:
1. Is it right for a boat in international waters to be attacked and border by a navy, and its occupants carted off to jail?
2.. What is your opinion on the Holocaust being committed by Israel against the palestinians with US tax money?
3. US arms israel with US weapons…Israel uses them against lebanon (2006) and Gaza(2008) in violation of US law: the Arms Export Control Act. Dont you thinl Israel should be brought to task for this breach?
4. Why are you supporting a coup in Honduras, where the couip masters have squashed any media not backing the coup masters?
5. Why are you so keen to support the dissidents in Iran but not the dissidents in Honduras? The latter are opposing a real coup, the former are only opposing democractic elections there candidate lost?
6. You call former congress woman and Us presidential candidate Cynthia McKinney a : ‘hateful nutjob’..while being oblivious to the real hatred israel and zionist jews have to both palestinians and americans…i allude to the attack on the US Liberty, american citizens and spying on US and selling of US secrets.

Your banning people like me, indictes you dont like contrary opinions.
Your comments?

regards
Brian

]]> By: momo http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49089 momo Thu, 02 Jul 2009 20:02:36 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49089 The thugs in Honduras appear like over keen mafioso's following the bosses orders and bungling the job, while the boss shakes his head in disbelief at their idiocy. The thugs in Honduras appear like over keen mafioso’s following the bosses orders and bungling the job, while the boss shakes his head in disbelief at their idiocy.

]]> By: brian http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49069 brian Thu, 02 Jul 2009 11:42:50 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49069 media censorship even reported in miami herald! TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras -- At the close of the one of this week's nightly news broadcasts, Channel 21 news anchor Indira Raudales made a plea: ``We have a right to information! This can't be happening in the 21st century!'' If Raudales offered more details, viewers did not hear them: the screen briefly went to static. Her on-air appeal for freedom of the press came as the newly installed Honduran government kept several news outlets closed, detained international reporters, and periodically interrupted the signal of CNN en español. Reporters for The Associated Press were taken away in military vehicles and Venezuela's Telesur network -- and any other station supportive of toppled president Manuel Zelaya -- are still off the air. Stations that are broadcasting carry only news friendly to the new government. Several local papers have yet to publish information about Zelaya's international support in neighboring countries. ''They militarized Channel 36, which is owned by me,'' said Esdras López, director of the show, ''Asi se Informa.'' ``They brought more than a battalion -- 22 armed men -- took the channel and said nobody could come in and nobody could come out. ``I own this building!'' The crackdown on the media began before dawn Sunday, when hooded soldiers entered the presidential palace by force and captured Zelaya, a leftist firebrand who had vowed to defy the supreme court, congress and the attorney general's office in a quest to hold a referendum. The nation's media went black while Zelaya was flown out of the country. When a new government presided by former head of Congress Roberto Micheletti was installed a few hours later, only the radio and TV stations loyal to the establishment were allowed to broadcast. Citing a daily newspaper, the InterAmerican Press Association reported that Zelaya supporters in Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula attacked reporters and photographers, as well as destroyed newspaper-vending kiosks. The advocacy group also reported that soldiers stormed into a TV station and newspaper newsrooms, ordering a halt to operations. ''We are deeply concerned by reports that several broadcasters have been taken off the air,'' said Committee To Protect Journalists' Americas senior program coordinator Carlos Lauría. ``We call on those in power to allow the resumption of all broadcasts and ensure that all journalists can work freely and safely at this critical time for Honduras.'' López said his station was targeted because of his past critical coverage of Micheletti and Gen. Romeo Vásquez, the head of the armed forces. ''There are journalists who Zelaya paid to insult me morning, noon and night,'' said National Human Rights Commissioner Ramón Custodio López. ``There is no censorship in Honduras. We have simply asked the media not to feed the conflict. The media that are closed are the ones that were feeding hate.'' Custodio, the government ombudsman, said he has not received any complaints from the press. ''If I get a complaint, I will investigate it,'' he said. If news outlets are leaving out chunks of the story, Custodio said, it's because they have the right to publish only the information that interests them. ''Who are we supposed to turn to when the government human rights commissioner is justifying this coup?'' said Andrés Molina, a correspondent for Venezuela's Telesur network, which is off the air. ``The military picked up our reporters off the street and held them for two hours. Later they said it was a mistake. How can it be a mistake, when these people are going around with cameras, microphones and media credentials?'' He stressed that Telesur is often criticized for being a ''leftist station out of Caracas'' but ``how then do you explain that they are taking CNN off the air too?'' ''This is not ideology,'' he said. ``This is abuse.'' Micheletti's spokesman René Zepeda, himself a longtime journalist here, told reporters that if it were his decision, all stations would be broadcasting. The Zelaya administration's channel 8, he said, would return after consultation with lawyers. A 2008 report by the Open Society Institute said government payments to the press were widespread. A report by the InterAmerican Dialogue think tank in Washington said the Honduran media operate as arms of political parties. ''One of the largest threats to Honduran democracy is the lack of independence of the Honduran media,'' according to the paper written by Manuel Orozco and Rebecca Rouse. ``The media have failed to fulfill their social function as government watchdogs, are controlled by business and political interests and do not practice fair reporting practices.'' http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking-news/story/1122536.html media censorship even reported in miami herald!

TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras — At the close of the one of this week’s nightly news broadcasts, Channel 21 news anchor Indira Raudales made a plea: “We have a right to information! This can’t be happening in the 21st century!”

If Raudales offered more details, viewers did not hear them: the screen briefly went to static.

Her on-air appeal for freedom of the press came as the newly installed Honduran government kept several news outlets closed, detained international reporters, and periodically interrupted the signal of CNN en español.

Reporters for The Associated Press were taken away in military vehicles and Venezuela’s Telesur network — and any other station supportive of toppled president Manuel Zelaya — are still off the air.

Stations that are broadcasting carry only news friendly to the new government. Several local papers have yet to publish information about Zelaya’s international support in neighboring countries.

”They militarized Channel 36, which is owned by me,” said Esdras López, director of the show, ”Asi se Informa.” “They brought more than a battalion — 22 armed men — took the channel and said nobody could come in and nobody could come out.

“I own this building!”

The crackdown on the media began before dawn Sunday, when hooded soldiers entered the presidential palace by force and captured Zelaya, a leftist firebrand who had vowed to defy the supreme court, congress and the attorney general’s office in a quest to hold a referendum. The nation’s media went black while Zelaya was flown out of the country.

When a new government presided by former head of Congress Roberto Micheletti was installed a few hours later, only the radio and TV stations loyal to the establishment were allowed to broadcast.

Citing a daily newspaper, the InterAmerican Press Association reported that Zelaya supporters in Tegucigalpa and San Pedro Sula attacked reporters and photographers, as well as destroyed newspaper-vending kiosks. The advocacy group also reported that soldiers stormed into a TV station and newspaper newsrooms, ordering a halt to operations.

”We are deeply concerned by reports that several broadcasters have been taken off the air,” said Committee To Protect Journalists’ Americas senior program coordinator Carlos Lauría. “We call on those in power to allow the resumption of all broadcasts and ensure that all journalists can work freely and safely at this critical time for Honduras.”

López said his station was targeted because of his past critical coverage of Micheletti and Gen. Romeo Vásquez, the head of the armed forces.

”There are journalists who Zelaya paid to insult me morning, noon and night,” said National Human Rights Commissioner Ramón Custodio López. “There is no censorship in Honduras. We have simply asked the media not to feed the conflict. The media that are closed are the ones that were feeding hate.”

Custodio, the government ombudsman, said he has not received any complaints from the press.

”If I get a complaint, I will investigate it,” he said.

If news outlets are leaving out chunks of the story, Custodio said, it’s because they have the right to publish only the information that interests them.

”Who are we supposed to turn to when the government human rights commissioner is justifying this coup?” said Andrés Molina, a correspondent for Venezuela’s Telesur network, which is off the air. “The military picked up our reporters off the street and held them for two hours. Later they said it was a mistake. How can it be a mistake, when these people are going around with cameras, microphones and media credentials?”

He stressed that Telesur is often criticized for being a ”leftist station out of Caracas” but “how then do you explain that they are taking CNN off the air too?”

”This is not ideology,” he said. “This is abuse.”

Micheletti’s spokesman René Zepeda, himself a longtime journalist here, told reporters that if it were his decision, all stations would be broadcasting. The Zelaya administration’s channel 8, he said, would return after consultation with lawyers.

A 2008 report by the Open Society Institute said government payments to the press were widespread. A report by the InterAmerican Dialogue think tank in Washington said the Honduran media operate as arms of political parties.

”One of the largest threats to Honduran democracy is the lack of independence of the Honduran media,” according to the paper written by Manuel Orozco and Rebecca Rouse. “The media have failed to fulfill their social function as government watchdogs, are controlled by business and political interests and do not practice fair reporting practices.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking-news/story/1122536.html

]]> By: Tennessee-With-Zelaya http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49060 Tennessee-With-Zelaya Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:06:33 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49060 Joed: It is real easy to sit from a computer and say that Chavez should be like a Superman or Spiderman movie hero. But he is not a movie hero, he is a human like you and me, and a political leader living in a real corrupt complicated world. You have to read the book "The 48 Laws of Power" to see the reality of the evil world of politics which is full of deep passions, hatred, complicated laws, regulations and treaties which literally control the actions of each government and presidents. Only people like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Fredrich The Great, Che Guevara, Attila the Hun, Fidel Castro, Simon Bolivar etc. and other mysthical figures of history had real liberty and power. But in today's complicated world of too many international entities like OAS, UN, etc. it is real hard for a head of state to invade another country to fix problems. So Hugo Chavez can't just invade Honduras and bring back Zelaya to power. . Joed: It is real easy to sit from a computer and say that Chavez should be like a Superman or Spiderman movie hero. But he is not a movie hero, he is a human like you and me, and a political leader living in a real corrupt complicated world. You have to read the book “The 48 Laws of Power” to see the reality of the evil world of politics which is full of deep passions, hatred, complicated laws, regulations and treaties which literally control the actions of each government and presidents. Only people like Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Napoleon, Fredrich The Great, Che Guevara, Attila the Hun, Fidel Castro, Simon Bolivar etc. and other mysthical figures of history had real liberty and power. But in today’s complicated world of too many international entities like OAS, UN, etc. it is real hard for a head of state to invade another country to fix problems. So Hugo Chavez can’t just invade Honduras and bring back Zelaya to power.

.

]]> By: joed http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49045 joed Wed, 01 Jul 2009 20:25:23 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49045 i guess you will see who can actually talk fastest here. does not seem that chavez is going to actually do anything. he is just like you amerikans just a bunch of blah blah blah. soooo concerned about the rest of the world while you give your commonwealth to murderous hate-filled thugs. you just give it to them not a peep from any of you. that's right, worry about iran palestine honduras etc but don't you dare to hit the streets in amerika--you might get in trouble. stay right here in the FREE SPEACH ZONE aka DissidentVoice. can't get into trouble here can you! blah blah blah. your polite discussions here is enough to gagamagot. i guess you will see who can actually talk fastest here. does not seem that chavez is going to actually do anything. he is just like you amerikans just a bunch of blah blah blah. soooo concerned about the rest of the world while you give your commonwealth to murderous hate-filled thugs. you just give it to them not a peep from any of you.
that’s right, worry about iran palestine honduras etc but don’t you dare to hit the streets in amerika–you might get in trouble.
stay right here in the FREE SPEACH ZONE aka DissidentVoice. can’t get into trouble here can you! blah blah blah.
your polite discussions here is enough to gagamagot.

]]> By: Tennessee-With-Zelaya http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49041 Tennessee-With-Zelaya Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:49:35 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49041 I HAVE TO SAY THAT THE NEW COUP DE ETAT BUSINESS-OWNERS AND CAPITALISTS NEED TO READ THE PRINCE BY MACHIAVELLI. A COUP DE ETAT DOESN'T BENEFIT CAPITALISTS NOR SOCIALISTS. If i was a capitalist i would benefit a lot more by rising to power thru elections like most smart capitalists (Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Felipe Calderon, Alvaro Uribe etc.) damn how stupid f*cks are the fascist ultra-right wing Honduras dictators !! how can they be so stupid to stage a coup de etat in this modern world? A coup de etat is really against the interests of the capitalist class and also against the socialist class (The workers and poor people) A coupe de etat doesn't benefit anybody really, it is suicide for all classes. Isn't easier for capitalists and business owners to rise to power electorally and preaching liberty and democracy to the masses and even welfare-services to the masses by applying the Machiavellic social doctrine of "Pan et Circem" instead of rising to power in such an obsolete way? I HAVE TO SAY THAT THE NEW COUP DE ETAT BUSINESS-OWNERS AND CAPITALISTS NEED TO READ THE PRINCE BY MACHIAVELLI.

A COUP DE ETAT DOESN’T BENEFIT CAPITALISTS NOR SOCIALISTS.

If i was a capitalist i would benefit a lot more by rising to power thru elections like most smart capitalists (Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, Felipe Calderon, Alvaro Uribe etc.)

damn how stupid f*cks are the fascist ultra-right wing Honduras dictators !! how can they be so stupid to stage a coup de etat in this modern world?

A coup de etat is really against the interests of the capitalist class and also against the socialist class (The workers and poor people)

A coupe de etat doesn’t benefit anybody really, it is suicide for all classes.

Isn’t easier for capitalists and business owners to rise to power electorally and preaching liberty and democracy to the masses and even welfare-services to the masses by applying the Machiavellic social doctrine of “Pan et Circem” instead of rising to power in such an obsolete way?

]]> By: Melissa http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49038 Melissa Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:21:12 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49038 . . . the economic system we have is planned, no? Though, I agree not to the benefit of humanity. example: Cap and Trade creates a commodity on pollution, makes it part of GDP rather than curbing. It's planned for Goldman Sachs. . . . the economic system we have is planned, no? Though, I agree not to the benefit of humanity.

example: Cap and Trade creates a commodity on pollution, makes it part of GDP rather than curbing. It’s planned for Goldman Sachs.

]]> By: kalidas http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49036 kalidas Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:03:58 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49036 In the interests of fairness and truth as regards Arthur Schopenhauer... "From every sentence (of the Upanishads) deep, original and sublime thoughts arise, and the whole is pervaded by a high and holy and earnest spirit...."In the whole world there is no study so beneficial and so elevating as that of the Upanishads. They are destined sooner or later to become the faith of the people." " It has been the solace of my life -- it will be the solace of my death." Quotes : Arthur Schopenhauer In the interests of fairness and truth as regards Arthur Schopenhauer…

“From every sentence (of the Upanishads) deep, original and sublime thoughts arise, and the whole is pervaded by a high and holy and earnest spirit….”In the whole world there is no study so beneficial and so elevating as that of the Upanishads. They are destined sooner or later to become the faith of the people.”

” It has been the solace of my life — it will be the solace of my death.”
Quotes : Arthur Schopenhauer

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49034 Don Hawkins Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:42:39 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49034 From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind. Ayn Rand Well Ayn the reasoning of man in the year 2009 seems to be stuck on stupid. Two million to start Capital one voice calm at peace. Still time From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man – the function of his reasoning mind.
Ayn Rand

Well Ayn the reasoning of man in the year 2009 seems to be stuck on stupid. Two million to start Capital one voice calm at peace. Still time

]]> By: Tennessee-With-Zelaya http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49031 Tennessee-With-Zelaya Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:42:03 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49031 don hawkins: you are real smart and awake. Like Neo in the movie The Matrix. And indeed, the crony capitalist system of America has too many middle-men like for example the car-dealers, real estate salesmen, indpendent workers, working with cell phones in the streets and selling shit to Americans, fooling and tricking americans. Another black evil market is E-bay, and Amazon. I think e-bay and Amazons should be closed. We need a real system, a real planned economic system like Venezuela and USSR, where people who don't work don't get payed, and only those who work get payed. However those who don't work would still get unemployed paychecks just like many European Social-Democrat states. But what i am trying to say is that we need a real honest economy where you gotta work in order to have a normal paycheck. But in America many people who dont produce shit for the GDP still get huge pay, like car-dealers, car-salesmen, real estate Remax salesmen. I think we need a system in which if u wanna sell your house, you should sell it yourself or the government would give you a hand to sell it, and not let Remax and independent people who dont produce shit for the US GDP get huge $$$. Planned economic system is the real deal. And to hell with Ron Paul and unplanned economic ideology of Luwig Von Mises, Adam Smith and Ayn Rand. Marxism, USSR, statism, Castroism, Chavism is the real deal !! . don hawkins: you are real smart and awake. Like Neo in the movie The Matrix. And indeed, the crony capitalist system of America has too many middle-men like for example the car-dealers, real estate salesmen, indpendent workers, working with cell phones in the streets and selling shit to Americans, fooling and tricking americans. Another black evil market is E-bay, and Amazon. I think e-bay and Amazons should be closed. We need a real system, a real planned economic system like Venezuela and USSR, where people who don’t work don’t get payed, and only those who work get payed. However those who don’t work would still get unemployed paychecks just like many European Social-Democrat states. But what i am trying to say is that we need a real honest economy where you gotta work in order to have a normal paycheck. But in America many people who dont produce shit for the GDP still get huge pay, like car-dealers, car-salesmen, real estate Remax salesmen.

I think we need a system in which if u wanna sell your house, you should sell it yourself or the government would give you a hand to sell it, and not let Remax and independent people who dont produce shit for the US GDP get huge $$$.

Planned economic system is the real deal. And to hell with Ron Paul and unplanned economic ideology of Luwig Von Mises, Adam Smith and Ayn Rand.

Marxism, USSR, statism, Castroism, Chavism is the real deal !!

.

]]> By: Tennessee-With-Zelaya http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49030 Tennessee-With-Zelaya Wed, 01 Jul 2009 17:36:15 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49030 Josie: Indeed, all US governments (Not Only the current one) are evil liars zionist, capitalist, corporate, drug-smuggling, oil-mafia cartels. Josie: Indeed, all US governments (Not Only the current one) are evil liars zionist, capitalist, corporate, drug-smuggling, oil-mafia cartels.

]]> By: Stephanie http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49022 Stephanie Wed, 01 Jul 2009 16:10:02 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49022 Thank you Benjamin. This is the first article I have read that I believe gives an unbiased report on what is happening in Honduras. No report gave me the actual question that Manuel Zelaya wanted to ask. Thank you Benjamin. This is the first article I have read that I believe gives an unbiased report on what is happening in Honduras. No report gave me the actual question that Manuel Zelaya wanted to ask.

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49020 Don Hawkins Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:31:19 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49020 The whole system is backwards. The people who work hard should get paid more than the people who don't. Middle man should be a thing of the past. Car salesman not needed one price that's it. In the coming years it could be even simpler than that something like two bags of potatoes for a gallon of fuel or say a gallon of water if you decided to stay in California. Can't happen? Oh yes it can. The whole system is backwards. The people who work hard should get paid more than the people who don’t. Middle man should be a thing of the past. Car salesman not needed one price that’s it. In the coming years it could be even simpler than that something like two bags of potatoes for a gallon of fuel or say a gallon of water if you decided to stay in California. Can’t happen? Oh yes it can.

]]> By: Melissa http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49019 Melissa Wed, 01 Jul 2009 15:04:35 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49019 It seems that the idea of The Rule of Law as decisive, objective and neutral is misleading. If a solid, inflexible set of laws is in place, one-size-fits-all, it would feel even more like a dictatorship. If a structure of laws is flexible, allowing for interpretations and situational exceptions, like today, it feels like a system to benefit a slice of society according to the whims and emotional and worldviews of those in a robe (and aren't they demographically identical?). So, maybe it is a self-imposed tyranny to believe in buying into a system that will be decisive, equal and politically neutral? I wonder if we should abandon the idea of a system of Rule of Law that fits nationally -except with regards to murder, assault and theft- and consider a patchwork? More decentralized, autonomous systems that don't hand our collective fate to a third (politically entrenched) party, those courts and judges that is. bozh, am I inching any closer to grasping what you are trying to teach me in response to my ravings about documents etc? Peace, Melissa It seems that the idea of The Rule of Law as decisive, objective and neutral is misleading.

If a solid, inflexible set of laws is in place, one-size-fits-all, it would feel even more like a dictatorship. If a structure of laws is flexible, allowing for interpretations and situational exceptions, like today, it feels like a system to benefit a slice of society according to the whims and emotional and worldviews of those in a robe (and aren’t they demographically identical?).

So, maybe it is a self-imposed tyranny to believe in buying into a system that will be decisive, equal and politically neutral? I wonder if we should abandon the idea of a system of Rule of Law that fits nationally -except with regards to murder, assault and theft- and consider a patchwork? More decentralized, autonomous systems that don’t hand our collective fate to a third (politically entrenched) party, those courts and judges that is.

bozh, am I inching any closer to grasping what you are trying to teach me in response to my ravings about documents etc?

Peace,
Melissa

]]> By: Danny Ray http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49013 Danny Ray Wed, 01 Jul 2009 13:21:09 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49013 So Josie, Its only a coup if the people who take power are the side you and the left do not like? Two years ago if the supreme court with the consent of the congress had of sent the military into the white house and told W that he was going on a plane trip and should he return he would be arrested , you lefties would have formed a conga line from New york to san francisco, but a president who you like breaks the law and is called down by the courts and it is a coup which must be reversed ASAP . A travisty of justice, So what is it to be THE RULE OF LAW OR WHAT? So Josie, Its only a coup if the people who take power are the side you and the left do not like? Two years ago if the supreme court with the consent of the congress had of sent the military into the white house and told W that he was going on a plane trip and should he return he would be arrested , you lefties would have formed a conga line from New york to san francisco, but a president who you like breaks the law and is called down by the courts and it is a coup which must be reversed ASAP . A travisty of justice, So what is it to be THE RULE OF LAW OR WHAT?

]]> By: Josie Michel-Brüning http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49010 Josie Michel-Brüning Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:30:08 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49010 I want to add: These above mentioned groups, receive "US GOVERNMENT FUNDING FROM USAID, NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY, INTERNATIONAL REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE AND NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS. ADDITIONALLY THE HONDURAN MILITARY IS HEAVILY FUNDED BY THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND PENTAGON", that means your money as a tax payer too. They call themselves N.G.O.s but are fullfilling worldwide the intervention policy that you, as you said, despise. I want to add:
These above mentioned groups, receive “US GOVERNMENT FUNDING FROM USAID, NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY, INTERNATIONAL REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE AND NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS. ADDITIONALLY THE HONDURAN MILITARY IS HEAVILY FUNDED BY THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND PENTAGON”, that means your money as a tax payer too.
They call themselves N.G.O.s but are fullfilling worldwide the intervention policy that you, as you said, despise.

]]> By: Josie Michel-Brüning http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-49009 Josie Michel-Brüning Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:19:52 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-49009 Dear "phuque yew", Your despise is graspable, but leave it to your private feelings. Your current President is a pragmatic, as he calls himself. If you do want change yourself, more than just to express your despise, you have to be pragmatic too, take him at his words and back his supposed "change". Use your possibilities by at least signing respective calls at him. May be he needs it for resisting the great lobbies in your country. SECRETARY OF STATE CLINTON yesterday STATED THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT WAS NOT READY TO LEGALLY CALL THE DEVELOPMENTS IN HONDURAS A COUP D'ETAT, BECAUSE DOING SO WOULD REQUIRE WASHINGTON TO CUT OF ECONOMIC AID TO THE CENTRAL AMERICAN NATION AND BREAK RELATIONS, WHICH THEY ARE STILL HESITANT TO DO BECAUSE THOSE THAT ILLEGALLY TOOK POWER YESTERDAY IN HONDURAS ARE GROUPS AND POLITICAL PARTIES THAT RECEIVE US GOVERNMENT FUNDING FROM USAID, NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY, INTERNATIONAL REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE AND NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS. ADDITIONALLY THE HONDURAN MILITARY IS HEAVILY FUNDED BY THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND PENTAGON. Many people of the world, like me just now, are protesting at the White House website http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/ Dear “phuque yew”,
Your despise is graspable, but leave it to your private feelings.
Your current President is a pragmatic, as he calls himself.
If you do want change yourself, more than just to express your despise, you have to be pragmatic too, take him at his words and back his supposed “change”. Use your possibilities by at least signing respective calls at him. May be he needs it for resisting the great lobbies in your country.
SECRETARY OF STATE CLINTON yesterday STATED THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT WAS NOT READY TO LEGALLY CALL THE DEVELOPMENTS IN HONDURAS A COUP D’ETAT, BECAUSE DOING SO WOULD REQUIRE WASHINGTON TO CUT OF ECONOMIC AID TO THE CENTRAL AMERICAN NATION AND BREAK RELATIONS, WHICH THEY ARE STILL HESITANT TO DO BECAUSE THOSE THAT ILLEGALLY TOOK POWER YESTERDAY IN HONDURAS ARE GROUPS AND POLITICAL PARTIES THAT RECEIVE US GOVERNMENT FUNDING FROM USAID, NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY, INTERNATIONAL REPUBLICAN INSTITUTE AND NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS. ADDITIONALLY THE HONDURAN MILITARY IS HEAVILY FUNDED BY THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND PENTAGON.
Many people of the world, like me just now, are protesting at the White House website http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

]]> By: phuque yew http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-48998 phuque yew Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:23:55 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-48998 When is a coup d'etat not a coup d'etat? When that glib Harvard-educated constitutional scholar and great changemaker says its not. Thus has spoken the most exalted American Obamanation, and US aid to the illegal and illegitimate Honduran government of Micheletti will continue. You wouldn't expect anything less from an American politician from whom mistruths, distortions, and lies flow as freely as taxpayer dollars into the Wall St. trough, would you? I never thought I could despise an American president more than I did (and still do) the war criminal bush, but this obamanation is proving slicker than the s**t fresh out of a pig's ass. When is a coup d’etat not a coup d’etat? When that glib Harvard-educated constitutional scholar and great changemaker says its not. Thus has spoken the most exalted American Obamanation, and US aid to the illegal and illegitimate Honduran government of Micheletti will continue. You wouldn’t expect anything less from an American politician from whom mistruths, distortions, and lies flow as freely as taxpayer dollars into the Wall St. trough, would you?

I never thought I could despise an American president more than I did (and still do) the war criminal bush, but this obamanation is proving slicker than the s**t fresh out of a pig’s ass.

]]> By: Tennessee-With-Zelaya http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/showdown-in-honduras-the-rise-and-uncertain-future-of-the-coup/#comment-48992 Tennessee-With-Zelaya Wed, 01 Jul 2009 03:40:42 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8865#comment-48992 "Morality and religion is the negation toward life." -Arthur Shopenhauer I hate laws, laws are created by men to suit their interests, and not ordained by God. Just look at the current law system of Honduras and even the USA. The current law system benefits rich oligarchs, upper classes. That's the problem of having a legal world view, people with legalist world view could never even think about turning their constitution into a socialist constitution. What societies need is power. Power is tronger than laws, i mean the collective will to power of the masses can conquer capitalist laws. I know that the people will reinstall Manuel Zelaya back to Presidency, along with the International Community which is more powerful, than the fascist Roberto Micheletti and his very few supporters from the capitalist Honduran class. Another interesting thing is that Jose Manuel Zelaya Rosales increased the minimum wage by 60%. You see other countries are not ruled by greedy, stingy, cheapy people. But we in USA have the bad luck of being ruled by greedy, cheapy, stingy low-self esteem individuals with unchecked appetites and unfufilled hungers. Damn Honduras is poorer than USA and it increases the wages by 60%. Here in America all the poor get is food from food-charities and 200 dollars of food stamps for a whole month. And those are the lucky ones who can get the food stamps. Because US government is so stingy and cheapy that millions of americans don't are alienated from the food-stamps program. Damn if Obama or Bush increased minimum wage in the USA by 60% it would be about 10 dollars an hour, and Obama would be overthrown by Wal Mart and corporate powers. US gov. never increases the wages of the poors. US government doesn't care about the poor workers. It ignores poverty and poors in America. What US gov do is to let churches, food charities and other non profit organizations to feed hungry americans instead of the US gov. increasing the self esteem of americans by raising the wage to at least 10 dollars an hour, and bailing out the low wage workers. “Morality and religion is the negation toward life.” -Arthur Shopenhauer

I hate laws, laws are created by men to suit their interests, and not ordained by God. Just look at the current law system of Honduras and even the USA. The current law system benefits rich oligarchs, upper classes. That’s the problem of having a legal world view, people with legalist world view could never even think about turning their constitution into a socialist constitution.

What societies need is power. Power is tronger than laws, i mean the collective will to power of the masses can conquer capitalist laws.

I know that the people will reinstall Manuel Zelaya back to Presidency, along with the International Community which is more powerful, than the fascist Roberto Micheletti and his very few supporters from the capitalist Honduran class.

Another interesting thing is that Jose Manuel Zelaya Rosales increased the minimum wage by 60%.

You see other countries are not ruled by greedy, stingy, cheapy people. But we in USA have the bad luck of being ruled by greedy, cheapy, stingy low-self esteem individuals with unchecked appetites and unfufilled hungers.

Damn Honduras is poorer than USA and it increases the wages by 60%. Here in America all the poor get is food from food-charities and 200 dollars of food stamps for a whole month. And those are the lucky ones who can get the food stamps. Because US government is so stingy and cheapy that millions of americans don’t are alienated from the food-stamps program.

Damn if Obama or Bush increased minimum wage in the USA by 60% it would be about 10 dollars an hour, and Obama would be overthrown by Wal Mart and corporate powers.

US gov. never increases the wages of the poors. US government doesn’t care about the poor workers. It ignores poverty and poors in America. What US gov do is to let churches, food charities and other non profit organizations to feed hungry americans instead of the US gov. increasing the self esteem of americans by raising the wage to at least 10 dollars an hour, and bailing out the low wage workers.

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