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	<title>Comments on: McChrystal Looks to Spin Afghan Civilian Deaths Problem</title>
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	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/mcchrystal-looks-to-spin-afghan-civilian-deaths-problem/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:13:54 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/mcchrystal-looks-to-spin-afghan-civilian-deaths-problem/#comment-48566</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8771#comment-48566</guid>
		<description>John:  The difference is we don&#039;t offer ourselves as guns for hire for someone else&#039;s agenda -an agenda we disagree with.  Different standard of morals.  I don&#039;t believe the basis for this indefinite war.

I don&#039;t doubt that you are faced with a gruesome, troubling and difficult violence-filled reality of which I don&#039;t have a first person view.  But your willingness to follow orders is what makes that horrible reality your reality.

Forgive me for saying so, you&#039;re there (were there?) &#039;cause you signed up.  We filled the streets to keep you home, safe, and whole.  We continue to want you here, not there, dealing with battlefield decisions and spilling blood.

If the entire ANA and American troops had been wasted it would just be more of the same, no?  Remember how troops are viewed by Pentagon in Kissinger&#039;s words?  Those aren&#039;t the feelings of anti-war folks;  we think you have more to offer protecting and serving within our borders, where those that love you can fold you into their arms daily.

Come home safe, if your still abroad.  We need you to protect and defend our constitution, our Bill of Rights.  That&#039;s where the real basis for war is.

Peace,
Melissa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John:  The difference is we don&#8217;t offer ourselves as guns for hire for someone else&#8217;s agenda -an agenda we disagree with.  Different standard of morals.  I don&#8217;t believe the basis for this indefinite war.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t doubt that you are faced with a gruesome, troubling and difficult violence-filled reality of which I don&#8217;t have a first person view.  But your willingness to follow orders is what makes that horrible reality your reality.</p>
<p>Forgive me for saying so, you&#8217;re there (were there?) &#8217;cause you signed up.  We filled the streets to keep you home, safe, and whole.  We continue to want you here, not there, dealing with battlefield decisions and spilling blood.</p>
<p>If the entire ANA and American troops had been wasted it would just be more of the same, no?  Remember how troops are viewed by Pentagon in Kissinger&#8217;s words?  Those aren&#8217;t the feelings of anti-war folks;  we think you have more to offer protecting and serving within our borders, where those that love you can fold you into their arms daily.</p>
<p>Come home safe, if your still abroad.  We need you to protect and defend our constitution, our Bill of Rights.  That&#8217;s where the real basis for war is.</p>
<p>Peace,<br />
Melissa</p>
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		<title>By: Don Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/mcchrystal-looks-to-spin-afghan-civilian-deaths-problem/#comment-48565</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 00:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8771#comment-48565</guid>
		<description>Look again at that dot. That’s here. That’s home. That’s us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every “superstar”, every “supreme leader”, every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there — on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan 

   
The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. –Stephen Hawking

“I’ll take it from here”  Unknown</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look again at that dot. That’s here. That’s home. That’s us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every “superstar”, every “supreme leader”, every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there — on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.<br />
Carl Sagan </p>
<p>The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge. –Stephen Hawking</p>
<p>“I’ll take it from here”  Unknown</p>
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		<title>By: John Basoline</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/mcchrystal-looks-to-spin-afghan-civilian-deaths-problem/#comment-48563</link>
		<dc:creator>John Basoline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8771#comment-48563</guid>
		<description>The majority of you are horribly misinformed...the unit you are speaking of in the latest incident were advisors traveling with the Afghan National Army(ANA) and the Commander of the Afghan force was told he should do more planning and gather more information and external support, as well as local support, prior to entering into the unknown province &quot;uninvited&quot; and his judgment about the situation was similar to all of you “Couch Commanders”, just naïve.  This was an ANA mission.  The advice was not heeded, however, b/c they had air power they were able to save the majority of the Afghan Army Soldiers and all of the Americans.   Just think about what you “Americans” would have been saying had you lost all the ANA Soldiers and all the advisor team…;what then?  I can see your criticism and it disgust me.  

You live in your misinformed, non-austere, utopian worlds and cannot taste the fear, sweat, dirt, or blood churning the emotions and decisions of the battlefield.  

You provide your chastising comments of the American Military and you yourself (most likely) have never climbed an afghan mountain, made a life or death decision, hell you probably have problems making decisions at Starbucks.  I will leave you this….critics with no experience are worthless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The majority of you are horribly misinformed&#8230;the unit you are speaking of in the latest incident were advisors traveling with the Afghan National Army(ANA) and the Commander of the Afghan force was told he should do more planning and gather more information and external support, as well as local support, prior to entering into the unknown province &#8220;uninvited&#8221; and his judgment about the situation was similar to all of you “Couch Commanders”, just naïve.  This was an ANA mission.  The advice was not heeded, however, b/c they had air power they were able to save the majority of the Afghan Army Soldiers and all of the Americans.   Just think about what you “Americans” would have been saying had you lost all the ANA Soldiers and all the advisor team…;what then?  I can see your criticism and it disgust me.  </p>
<p>You live in your misinformed, non-austere, utopian worlds and cannot taste the fear, sweat, dirt, or blood churning the emotions and decisions of the battlefield.  </p>
<p>You provide your chastising comments of the American Military and you yourself (most likely) have never climbed an afghan mountain, made a life or death decision, hell you probably have problems making decisions at Starbucks.  I will leave you this….critics with no experience are worthless.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/mcchrystal-looks-to-spin-afghan-civilian-deaths-problem/#comment-48521</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8771#comment-48521</guid>
		<description>When the mafia does it, it&#039;s called extortion, murder, etc.

When another country/organized group does it, it&#039;s terrorism.

When USA does it, we choose misleading terms like:  sanctions, diplomacy, capitalism and a just war.  

Hmph.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the mafia does it, it&#8217;s called extortion, murder, etc.</p>
<p>When another country/organized group does it, it&#8217;s terrorism.</p>
<p>When USA does it, we choose misleading terms like:  sanctions, diplomacy, capitalism and a just war.  </p>
<p>Hmph.</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/mcchrystal-looks-to-spin-afghan-civilian-deaths-problem/#comment-48520</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 22:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8771#comment-48520</guid>
		<description>john,
for me, it is not difficult to espy that, among many other lands and empires, US is also governed by  a gang, differing not a tad in kind from a biker or mafia gang but only in degree of atrocities which gangs generally perpetrate.
natch, US gang is the largest and strongest; thus, it kills and destroys more than any other gang.
members of the  gangs are gangsters who worship/adore  criminal behavior that brings in money and accolades from other gang members.
and we&#039;ve had a gangster rule for about 10K yrs in almost al lands or region. 
people like lapps, inuits, some other indigenes, having no concept of land ownerhip and or bordered land, were not ever ruled by gangsters until just recently if even now.
tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>john,<br />
for me, it is not difficult to espy that, among many other lands and empires, US is also governed by  a gang, differing not a tad in kind from a biker or mafia gang but only in degree of atrocities which gangs generally perpetrate.<br />
natch, US gang is the largest and strongest; thus, it kills and destroys more than any other gang.<br />
members of the  gangs are gangsters who worship/adore  criminal behavior that brings in money and accolades from other gang members.<br />
and we&#8217;ve had a gangster rule for about 10K yrs in almost al lands or region.<br />
people like lapps, inuits, some other indigenes, having no concept of land ownerhip and or bordered land, were not ever ruled by gangsters until just recently if even now.<br />
tnx</p>
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		<title>By: John S. Hatch</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/mcchrystal-looks-to-spin-afghan-civilian-deaths-problem/#comment-48516</link>
		<dc:creator>John S. Hatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8771#comment-48516</guid>
		<description>It has been clear for a long time that American military psyochpaths couldn&#039;t care less about the civilian lives of &#039;Japs&#039; or &#039;Slants&#039; or &#039;Gooks&#039; or &#039;Sandniggers&#039; or &#039;Ragheads&#039; or anyone who isn&#039;t white, christian, and American neo-con. If they kill you, then by definition you&#039;re a &#039;bad guy&#039;, even if you&#039;re just eight days old. 

That&#039;s how terrified they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It has been clear for a long time that American military psyochpaths couldn&#8217;t care less about the civilian lives of &#8216;Japs&#8217; or &#8216;Slants&#8217; or &#8216;Gooks&#8217; or &#8216;Sandniggers&#8217; or &#8216;Ragheads&#8217; or anyone who isn&#8217;t white, christian, and American neo-con. If they kill you, then by definition you&#8217;re a &#8216;bad guy&#8217;, even if you&#8217;re just eight days old. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s how terrified they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel Feralas</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/mcchrystal-looks-to-spin-afghan-civilian-deaths-problem/#comment-48515</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Feralas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8771#comment-48515</guid>
		<description>&quot;Petraeus’s past reluctance to stop or dramatically reduce such SOF operations, despite the bad publicity surrounding them, suggests that high level intra-military politics are involved.

The Marine Corps Special Operations Command (MarSOC) has been involved in the most highly publicized cases of massive civilian casualties in Afghanistan. It was established by the Marine Corps only in February 2006, and the first MarSOC company arrived in Afghanistan just a year later.

MarSOC was unable to recruit the more mature officers and troops needed for cross-cultural situations, and its recruits had only a few months of training before being sent to Afghanistan.

The unit’s commanding officer had been warned by one participant in the training before the unit had arrived in Afghanistan that his troops were too young and too oriented toward killing to serve in Afghanistan, according to Chris Mason, a former U.S. official in Afghanistan familiar with the unit’s history.

In March 2007, a company of MarSOC troops which had only arrived in the country the previous month were accused of firing indiscriminately at pedestrians and cars as they sped away from a suicide bomb attack, killing as many as 19 Afghan civilians. Five days later the same unit reportedly fired on traffic again&quot;


I think politics has been involved, but I&#039;m not quite sure how Marsoc was too oriented toward killing. The Marsoc forces of that time period were drawn from Force Recon  Marines who were used primarily to collect intelligence prior to an amphibious landing.  Unlike the younger Marines in a Recon Battalion, they would normally be out of range of supporting arms ( Artillery and Naval Gunfire) so the need for &quot;fire discipline&quot; would be paramount. It would seem unlikely that they were too oriented toward killing. Being unable to recruit the officers and enlisted people needed is also strange, as the service records of eligible Marines were drawn from the entire Marine Corps.

Also you have to note that the company involved in the shooting incident was found to have acted correctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Petraeus’s past reluctance to stop or dramatically reduce such SOF operations, despite the bad publicity surrounding them, suggests that high level intra-military politics are involved.</p>
<p>The Marine Corps Special Operations Command (MarSOC) has been involved in the most highly publicized cases of massive civilian casualties in Afghanistan. It was established by the Marine Corps only in February 2006, and the first MarSOC company arrived in Afghanistan just a year later.</p>
<p>MarSOC was unable to recruit the more mature officers and troops needed for cross-cultural situations, and its recruits had only a few months of training before being sent to Afghanistan.</p>
<p>The unit’s commanding officer had been warned by one participant in the training before the unit had arrived in Afghanistan that his troops were too young and too oriented toward killing to serve in Afghanistan, according to Chris Mason, a former U.S. official in Afghanistan familiar with the unit’s history.</p>
<p>In March 2007, a company of MarSOC troops which had only arrived in the country the previous month were accused of firing indiscriminately at pedestrians and cars as they sped away from a suicide bomb attack, killing as many as 19 Afghan civilians. Five days later the same unit reportedly fired on traffic again&#8221;</p>
<p>I think politics has been involved, but I&#8217;m not quite sure how Marsoc was too oriented toward killing. The Marsoc forces of that time period were drawn from Force Recon  Marines who were used primarily to collect intelligence prior to an amphibious landing.  Unlike the younger Marines in a Recon Battalion, they would normally be out of range of supporting arms ( Artillery and Naval Gunfire) so the need for &#8220;fire discipline&#8221; would be paramount. It would seem unlikely that they were too oriented toward killing. Being unable to recruit the officers and enlisted people needed is also strange, as the service records of eligible Marines were drawn from the entire Marine Corps.</p>
<p>Also you have to note that the company involved in the shooting incident was found to have acted correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/mcchrystal-looks-to-spin-afghan-civilian-deaths-problem/#comment-48475</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8771#comment-48475</guid>
		<description>suthiano,
i don&#039;t think canada is a terrorist state yet. I wld be in the eyes of the ruling class if they&#039;d read what i say.
but that does not mean that s&#039;mone is not paid to watch &#039;terrorist&#039; like me, you, and them. tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>suthiano,<br />
i don&#8217;t think canada is a terrorist state yet. I wld be in the eyes of the ruling class if they&#8217;d read what i say.<br />
but that does not mean that s&#8217;mone is not paid to watch &#8216;terrorist&#8217; like me, you, and them. tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Suthiano</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/mcchrystal-looks-to-spin-afghan-civilian-deaths-problem/#comment-48468</link>
		<dc:creator>Suthiano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 19:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8771#comment-48468</guid>
		<description>a lot of civilian deaths are caused by drone planes.

U.S. launches another drone plane to patrol Canadian border http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/06/22/drone-great-lakes022.html

This drone plane will be &quot;unarmed&quot;... but how long until that changes?

The war is coming soon to your home town, because the threat of &quot;terrorism&quot; is everywhere, and must be stamped out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a lot of civilian deaths are caused by drone planes.</p>
<p>U.S. launches another drone plane to patrol Canadian border <a href="http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/06/22/drone-great-lakes022.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/06/22/drone-great-lakes022.html</a></p>
<p>This drone plane will be &#8220;unarmed&#8221;&#8230; but how long until that changes?</p>
<p>The war is coming soon to your home town, because the threat of &#8220;terrorism&#8221; is everywhere, and must be stamped out.</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/06/mcchrystal-looks-to-spin-afghan-civilian-deaths-problem/#comment-48467</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8771#comment-48467</guid>
		<description>who&#039;s next in next serial war? Is the aggression against pashtuns hundred eighty first aggression against hated aliens?
i81 wars may be a record. But there may be ahead dozens of more serial killings.
that&#039;s why some countries are begining to band together so as to avoid an easy [for amers] war against them.
in the old days one cld see on TV an amer war but no longer. So, amers don&#039;t know how much entertainment they are deprived of.
instead they get dull reality shows and free fighting. tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>who&#8217;s next in next serial war? Is the aggression against pashtuns hundred eighty first aggression against hated aliens?<br />
i81 wars may be a record. But there may be ahead dozens of more serial killings.<br />
that&#8217;s why some countries are begining to band together so as to avoid an easy [for amers] war against them.<br />
in the old days one cld see on TV an amer war but no longer. So, amers don&#8217;t know how much entertainment they are deprived of.<br />
instead they get dull reality shows and free fighting. tnx</p>
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