Comments on: May Day 2009 in Cuba http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/05/may-day-2009-in-cuba/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:13:54 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: ron ridenour http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/05/may-day-2009-in-cuba/#comment-44967 ron ridenour Sat, 02 May 2009 17:52:14 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8024#comment-44967 To my critics, Glad for the response. I did not intend for this short piece to go into all the advantages of the partial socialist society in Cuba, nor to denounce yet again all the US does to undermine its adversary. I did, however, start the first paragraph with the ongoing aggression of US imperialism-- "a violent reaction from the national landowners and their ally in the United States, the latter continuing its merciless revenge against the revolutionary government of Cuba." Lichen has some good point of what participatory democracy a la socialism should mean. Unlike Silver, I do not see much worker empowerment. Simply because there are discussions, once the Communist party and government establishes them, and just because there is one union--albeit its virtures not mentioned by Silver--which, more than not does not address the needs and desire of the workers, but rather acts as employers, does not mean that real participatory democracy involving decision-making actually exists in practice. Yes, Josie's citing Bill Blum is true. We will never know. But, I do believe that Cuba could have developed a more truly people power revolution had the US not been there. But, we must know that the US, or its surrogate, will always be there to thwart the will of the people anywhere on earth. That is capitalism's nature. And, yes, it is true that it is up to Cubans to determine their destiny. I wrote using the "we" because I identity with the Cuban revolution, and have lived and worked with it on its soil for eight years and abroad for nearly 50. And, no, a few university students and professors will not be the force to make the necessary changes, but they can--just like many of us students in the US, Europe and much of Latin America acted to place an alternative on the agenda--start the process for the entire population to forge a more truly proletarian-student vanguard-led socialist society from the bottom. Socialists, communists, anarchists, solidarity-workers all have a place, all should have a voice in shaping the international revolution against capitalism-imperialism sickness. Abrazos, Ron To my critics,

Glad for the response.
I did not intend for this short piece to go into all the advantages of the partial socialist society in Cuba, nor to denounce yet again all the US does to undermine its adversary. I did, however, start the first paragraph with the ongoing aggression of US imperialism–
“a violent reaction from the national landowners and their ally in the United States, the latter continuing its merciless revenge against the revolutionary government of Cuba.”

Lichen has some good point of what participatory democracy a la socialism should mean. Unlike Silver, I do not see much worker empowerment. Simply because there are discussions, once the Communist party and government establishes them, and just because there is one union–albeit its virtures not mentioned by Silver–which, more than not does not address the needs and desire of the workers, but rather acts as employers, does not mean that real participatory democracy involving decision-making actually exists in practice.

Yes, Josie’s citing Bill Blum is true. We will never know. But, I do believe that Cuba could have developed a more truly people power revolution had the US not been there. But, we must know that the US, or its surrogate, will always be there to thwart the will of the people anywhere on earth. That is capitalism’s nature.

And, yes, it is true that it is up to Cubans to determine their destiny. I wrote using the “we” because I identity with the Cuban revolution, and have lived and worked with it on its soil for eight years and abroad for nearly 50. And, no, a few university students and professors will not be the force to make the necessary changes, but they can–just like many of us students in the US, Europe and much of Latin America acted to place an alternative on the agenda–start the process for the entire population to forge a more truly proletarian-student vanguard-led socialist society from the bottom.

Socialists, communists, anarchists, solidarity-workers all have a place, all should have a voice in shaping the international revolution against capitalism-imperialism sickness.
Abrazos, Ron

]]> By: Josie Michel-Brüning http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/05/may-day-2009-in-cuba/#comment-44962 Josie Michel-Brüning Sat, 02 May 2009 16:32:15 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8024#comment-44962 As William Blum already wrote in 1999 in his Brief History of U.S. Interventions at the end of his comment about Cuba: "The saddest part of this is that the world will never know what kind of society Cuba could have produced if left alone, if not constantly under the gun and the threat of invasion, if allowed to relax its control at home. The idealism, the vision, the talent, the internationalism were all there. But we'll never know. And that of course was the idea." Meanwhile, the Cuban Five are kept as hostages in U.S. prisons being punished for the resistance of their homeland against the greed of the U.S. policy, while confessed terrorists as Luis Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch enjoy their impunity. The case of the Cuban Five is the topical peak of the iceberg. Please, tie in with it. This would be a point of contact for change in my opinion. As William Blum already wrote in 1999 in his Brief History of U.S. Interventions at the end of his comment about Cuba:
“The saddest part of this is that the world will never know what kind of society Cuba could have produced if left alone, if not constantly under the gun and the threat of invasion, if allowed to relax its control at home. The idealism, the vision, the talent, the internationalism were all there. But we’ll never know. And that of course was the idea.”
Meanwhile, the Cuban Five are kept as hostages in U.S. prisons being punished for the resistance of their homeland against the greed of the U.S. policy, while confessed terrorists as Luis Posada Carriles and Orlando Bosch enjoy their impunity.
The case of the Cuban Five is the topical peak of the iceberg.
Please, tie in with it. This would be a point of contact for change in my opinion.

]]> By: lichen http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/05/may-day-2009-in-cuba/#comment-44906 lichen Fri, 01 May 2009 23:27:49 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8024#comment-44906 Well bozh, I think what I mean is the same socialism, but with more participation - one example would be how other parts of Latin America have participatory budgeting and neighborhood/community councils that legislate directly what happens in their locale. Agricultural cooperatives, democratic schools run by the students, and of course workers cooperatives are also an example. In venezuala even local infrastructure has been handed back to the community and functions as a cooperative. But then again the point of my message above was that the future should really be left up to the Cubans themselves (and those who still live in cuba; not the right wing rich cuban exile scum in miami, or the US government.) Well bozh, I think what I mean is the same socialism, but with more participation – one example would be how other parts of Latin America have participatory budgeting and neighborhood/community councils that legislate directly what happens in their locale. Agricultural cooperatives, democratic schools run by the students, and of course workers cooperatives are also an example. In venezuala even local infrastructure has been handed back to the community and functions as a cooperative. But then again the point of my message above was that the future should really be left up to the Cubans themselves (and those who still live in cuba; not the right wing rich cuban exile scum in miami, or the US government.)

]]> By: bozh http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/05/may-day-2009-in-cuba/#comment-44904 bozh Fri, 01 May 2009 23:03:08 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8024#comment-44904 david sliver, and not to mention that fascism had been around for millennia and socialism just for a century. And socialist lands are surrounded by lethal enemies. also that there are fascists in socialist lands. Also that socialists in US make 1% of its pop, while in russia perhaps half the pop was fascist. and there are always fake socialists, while none of the politicians inUS are fake fascists. Every US politico was true redneck; gungho war warfare and oppression. controling aliens by throwing at them missiles and domestics mostly via lying. tnx david sliver,
and not to mention that fascism had been around for millennia and socialism just for a century. And socialist lands are surrounded by lethal enemies.
also that there are fascists in socialist lands. Also that socialists in US make 1% of its pop, while in russia perhaps half the pop was fascist.
and there are always fake socialists, while none of the politicians inUS are fake fascists. Every US politico was true redneck; gungho war warfare and oppression.
controling aliens by throwing at them missiles and domestics mostly via lying. tnx

]]> By: bozh http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/05/may-day-2009-in-cuba/#comment-44903 bozh Fri, 01 May 2009 22:51:08 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8024#comment-44903 lichen, i don't know what "participatory socialism" means to you. Do you mean greater participation in governance and governing? do you make a distinction btwn governments [they come and go] and structure of governance which ought to stay the same if it is fair and just? without changing the present structure of governance and changing governments acomplishes what? are these students for free higher education and not just free but one that is not devised by present ruling class? Are they for healthcare, nationalization of transportation, mines, forests, power plants; a new constitution, etc? tnx lichen,
i don’t know what “participatory socialism” means to you. Do you mean greater participation in governance and governing?
do you make a distinction btwn governments [they come and go] and structure of governance which ought to stay the same if it is fair and just?
without changing the present structure of governance and changing governments acomplishes what?
are these students for free higher education and not just free but one that is not devised by present ruling class? Are they for healthcare, nationalization of transportation, mines, forests, power plants; a new constitution, etc? tnx

]]> By: lichen http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/05/may-day-2009-in-cuba/#comment-44899 lichen Fri, 01 May 2009 20:05:42 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8024#comment-44899 Who are we to join in with those voices that you mentioned? And isn't supposedly pressing for more democracy and civil liberties the facade which us imperialists hide their racist anti-communism behind these days? I don't doubt that some students really want a more participatory socialism, but then again I don't live there and that is up to them. Who are we to join in with those voices that you mentioned? And isn’t supposedly pressing for more democracy and civil liberties the facade which us imperialists hide their racist anti-communism behind these days? I don’t doubt that some students really want a more participatory socialism, but then again I don’t live there and that is up to them.

]]> By: Dave Silver http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/05/may-day-2009-in-cuba/#comment-44897 Dave Silver Fri, 01 May 2009 19:50:21 +0000 http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=8024#comment-44897 There is more Worker Empowerment -than Ron states. Constant discussion and replacement of leadership in the Party, trade unions and more "open information D than any bourgeois state. Sure there are problems caused by two currency systems, some workers both industrial and agricultural are producing less thsan they can/ Rienour paints it as a systemic failure of Socialism and seems to pin his hopes on students who want to bring Perestroika and other anti-socialist changes. How odd that the effects of the 50 year old Blockade is never mentioned, There is more Worker Empowerment -than Ron states. Constant discussion and replacement of leadership in the Party, trade unions
and more “open information D than any bourgeois state. Sure
there are problems caused by two currency systems, some workers
both industrial and agricultural are producing less thsan they can/
Rienour paints it as a systemic failure of Socialism and seems to pin his hopes on students who want to bring Perestroika and other anti-socialist changes.
How odd that the effects of the 50 year old Blockade is never mentioned,

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