Comments on: Ecosocialism: For a Society of Good Ancestors (Part Two)

By: Danny Ray

Danny Ray — Thu, 14 May 2009 01:33:36 +0000

A little, condescending maybe? I do not want to argue with you but you really should take a second and read what you just wrote and substitute the word Black or Hispanic for poor and see how that sounds. Maybe we should be more thankful to the left. Please oh great white lefty forgive us ungrateful peasants’.
Have you ever thought that maybe we don’t want your help? Perhaps we listen to Rush and preachers and army officers because they share our values and from the looks of what I see the left don’t. The left seems to think our God and our country is a joke and our guns should be taken up and out hobbies outlawed. The left says we have to accept their beliefs beacuse we live in a free country and we do ,but the left also thinks that anyone who can’t belive the things the left does is uneducated, stupid, gullible, or just plain backward. And the beliefs of the right are sick and twisted.
And as for the harmless jokes I just turned off air America they were making fun of hill billys going to church complete with really crappy fake accents and all, again tell those jokes with the words black or hispanic substituted for red neck and see how far you get.

By: Monkismo

Monkismo — Wed, 13 May 2009 21:16:05 +0000

Danny–they don’t seem to have a problem with being told how to think by Rush Limbaugh, preachers, or military officers. Funny how you can only see the left–who have fought for labor rights, better working conditions, a social safety net, better education, and access to health care–as the people who are “looking down” on the poor.

But if you think jokes are worse than the actual oppression of the poor, I can’t understand your perspective anyway.

By: bozh

bozh — Wed, 13 May 2009 13:32:49 +0000

is it the right thing to limn solely what low[er] classes ARE? Wldn’t it be better also to include saying that they became what they ARE today; or, rather what they do/think now.

low class, commonly known as working class, learnt to behave as they do now millennia ago. Guess from whom? Who were their teachers?
potentially the working class cld care/know more.
not of course by criticism but by education. Not by ‘education’ imposed by advertisers, entertainment industry, clero-political jingoistic lingo, or ‘schooling’.

it is of utmost import that we do not blame/victimize victims/oppressed; Instead, expose lies by miseducators.
for if we side with the ruling class- as we surely do when we condemn victims- we are helping to further enserf lower classes. tnx

By: Danny Ray

Danny Ray — Wed, 13 May 2009 12:07:48 +0000

Monkismo, Could it be that the working poor have a poor view of, not just enviromental issues but left issues in general, due to the fact that the left tends to look down on them and consider them sheep to be told how to think, vote, act, and look. Could it be the unending stream of jokes and put downs that turns the poor off? Maybe it is the automatic asumption that they are ignorant and need to be taught the right way to think.
Just a thought, I know it sure pisses me off.

By: Monkismo

Monkismo — Wed, 13 May 2009 05:07:05 +0000

Michael Kenney–
I live in a working-class neighborhood, and I’m not sure why you chose to lionize the working class’s disregard for environmentalism when the same could be same for their attitude toward women’s issues, gay and lesbian rights, animal welfare, peace, or almost any other progressive/left issue I can think of. Does it make those issues irrelevant too?

The urban poor and the rural poor alike share a disdain for environmental issues due to high rates of illiteracy, a basic social conservatism based in religion or their desire to possess the trinkets of conspicuous consumption that they see on TV, not out of some righteous indignation. They certainly have no problem sending their children into the military or the police to impose the government on other people.

While I have little faith in a co-opted middle class’s willingness to be a major force for real change, I have just as little faith in the “revolutionary” potential of the poor, who seem more interested in emulating the rich than changing the system that oppresses them.

By: bozh

bozh — Mon, 11 May 2009 13:20:42 +0000

mulga, some further observations on- what i call- interpersonal and international levels.
we’ve been OK once. But at certain point of time, let’s say, 50T yrs ago shamans along with few psychotic individuals began to lead us astray in order to perpetually subjugate us.
so, what is now happening in US is not a novelty but the same false teachings that had been around for millennia.
it only seems worse than, let’s say, 7T yrs ago because the deceivers are now thousands times stronger econo-politico-militarily than ever before.
in short, the difference is not in kind/intent but in degree of control.
feudal lords have controled us thru private army/police/spies; modern lords do the same.
even the army/spies/police are led astray and subjugated; exception being higher echelons who are part of the miseducation system. tnx

By: Mulga Mumblebrain

Mulga Mumblebrain — Mon, 11 May 2009 09:29:43 +0000

Kevin Robbins-thank-you. I haven’t laughed so much since I heard Obama had appointed Rahm Emmanuel as Head of State, or whatever. I had to adjust my surgical appliance. You denialists are a caution, I must say.
I was a Green Party member, once, for five meetings. Rightwing twits, all splitting everywhere, but already following the German example, where the Greens, after splitting into ‘Realists’ and ‘Fundamentalists’ have sold out spectacularly. They are now further to the Right than even the moribund ‘Free Democrats’. Of course the bourgeoise mentality is fiercely inculcated, and a little happenstance like to collapse of the biosphere isn’t going to change that. I was fortunate enough to be sent to an elite boys’ school, not the very top tier, but the next step below the creme de la scum. My teachers were nearly all Rightwing cretins and thugs, who had no subtlety or compunction in indoctrinating anti-socialist ideas. Their bullying and imbecility taught me good lessons, re-inforced over the years by following the existential tragedy and farce of politics and public life in this country.
Capitalism is cancer. It eats everything and turns it into necrosis. Its waste products poison its host, the planet. Capitalists are little metastases, spreading death, disguised as ‘progress’. The mentality that capitalism furthers, that of the psychopath, is unprincipled, egomaniacal and utterly indifferent to the fate of everything else. Under capitalism an existential version of ‘Gresham’s Law’ pertains. Bad people drive out the good, often by the simple means of killing them. Bad behaviour drives out good behaviour, and bad psychology the good. It was simply a matter of time before capitalism reached the techno-scientific intensity and extent to destroy the planet, and that time has arrived. I put our chances of success in surviving and establishing an abiding human civilisation as about one in ten. If we have failed it will be evident within a few years, and our one consolation will be that our evil system has died in its crib, having filled it with shit, and not escaped to degrade the cosmos. I simply cannot see how peaceful resistance can possibly prevail, as the Masters are the elect, the most pathological specimens thrown up by a system innately antipathetic to life, and they will never meekly surrender or change. I fear they have other plans in preparation, of a distinctly Malthusian nature.

By: Muriel Stanley Venne

Muriel Stanley Venne — Mon, 11 May 2009 05:24:49 +0000

What has this situation, saying that you are absolutely right, to do with democracy? Where does democracy fit?

By: Russell Olausen

Russell Olausen — Mon, 11 May 2009 05:21:30 +0000

Back in the 50′s when all the great powers where blowing up atom bombs in the atmosphere; they threatened each other and the Aberta oil sands were on the trajectory of the two biggest rivals. We used to joke about what to do if we were targeted for our growing oil capacity.The answer was, stick your head in between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye. Resonate with anyone?Karma.

By: bozh

bozh — Sun, 10 May 2009 12:50:33 +0000

robbo, well put,
have deep respect and love for nature, biota, and all life. tnx

By: Robbo Nimbin nsw AUSTRALIA

Robbo Nimbin nsw AUSTRALIA — Sun, 10 May 2009 02:35:42 +0000

Fossil fools are digging up 21 poisonous chemicals 9 of those are carcinojenic to human survival.Birth defects lung damage asthma and lead poisoning are just a couple of other human ailments that coal digging burning and coal ash burial create.If the governments cant change their dirty coal burning habits its up to the people to stop buying their products .We are not children any more and should and can be responcable for our own water food and air that we need for our own survival.So be responcable for your own needs and create the world you want to live in my world is a natural paradise take what you need and always put more back and you will never go without…
CHEERS

By: Don Hawkins

Don Hawkins — Sun, 10 May 2009 00:01:32 +0000

And that 5% of the population who I have seen close up now for yeas as a whole are a rather pathetic group wouldn’t you say. Why do many want to be just like them? Yes the illusion is strong. More more more. Oh don’t worry more is on the way.

By: lichen

lichen — Sun, 10 May 2009 00:01:05 +0000

It is very important to distance oneself from the right wing communism that developed in the 20th century; without the full spectrum of left movements attatched to it–such as environmentalism, gay rights, children’s rights, civil liberties, nonviolence, direct democracy, humane treatment…without all of that it was really scum.

By: Kevin Robbins

Kevin Robbins — Sat, 09 May 2009 22:44:48 +0000

Come out from under the rock you live under folks. It has been proven that our Solar System is entering into a highly energetic part of the Milky Way. This area is causing all of the planets to react in the same manner as Earth. Are humans responsible for those changes also? I agree that we need to take care of the planet but to live in ignorance and believe that people like Gore are going to tell us the truth at all times and not make stuff up like he did in “An Inconvenient Truth” is the same as sticking our head in the sand. Changes are coming, but not at man’s doing.

By: Don Hawkins

Don Hawkins — Sat, 09 May 2009 20:41:21 +0000

Say Israel goes into Iran with our help and oil goes to $300 a barrel. We still burn coal not as much and natural gas although not as much and some oil. At this point let’s be nice we only put CO 2 into the atmosphere at 6,000 times the natural rate. Although it might get us thinking about fossil fuels.

By: bozh

bozh — Sat, 09 May 2009 19:46:47 +0000

it may be better to eschew talking about or defining any ideology an dthat wld include al cultish ones as well.

instead, we shld ask, Does our inheritance include right not be lied to, healthcare, free higher education for all ?
And who decides that we do or do not? All of us or about 5% of the pop?

And who decides what is an enlightening education? All people or just a few who have already grabbed all econo-military-political power. tnx

By: Don Hawkins

Don Hawkins — Sat, 09 May 2009 19:36:45 +0000

It really is quite shocking, what has happened. We’ve lost 50 percent of the sea ice on the Arctic Ocean in the summertime. That’s the same area as all the land in the U.S. east of the Mississippi River. Now in the summer, that darker surface water is starting to absorb more energy. Will Steger.

In just a few years that ice will be gone and the weather not the climate changes in the Northern Hemisphere as it is now. Food and water.

By: Don Hawkins

Don Hawkins — Sat, 09 May 2009 19:23:10 +0000

We still putting CO 2 into the atmosphere at about 10,000 times the natural rate measured back 800,000 years that should be enough for us human’s. We see major changes taking place Worldwide changes that are very bad for us human’s. We have been told over and over the time to act is now. In the States what has been done so far to slow this down, nothing. In the Senate cap and trade that is only a band aid is on hold. James Lovelock a few years ago said what is the biggest problem with climate change and he said the surprises. We don’t keep burning at this rate and not expect surprises. We need to start now and it is not happening. It sure looks like the decision has been made by a few to not try. I don’t think it’s so much a conspiracy as stupidity. Right now the best we can hope for is major weather taking place on the Earth and then act. Like I said stupidity but so far that seems the thinking. Yes a few million to start in front of the Capital could help and how do we do that as it seems the illusion is stronger. One thing for sure as the problem kicks into high gear boring it will not be. Any plans in place for any of this, no. It’s still years in the future? It’s already to late in some way’s and only a few years away for millions not counting those surprises. Then billions. There is still time with total focus and a new way of thinking in many way’s. So far the old way of thinking and active paranoiac thought, to systematize confusion and contribute to the total discrediting of the world of reality. That’s the plan and how is it working, not well.

By: Michael Kenny

Michael Kenny — Sat, 09 May 2009 18:12:18 +0000

Whether there is a “universal” ideology remains to be seen, but viewed through European eyes, there is a need for a new progressive ideology for the 21st century to build upon the success of 20th century socialism (now conservative), itself built on the success of 19th century liberalism (now reactionary), the ideology of the French Revolution.

The weakness of the Green ideology is that it is laughably middle class, hung up on bad smells, riding bicycles, sorting rubbish, not smoking etc. In the working class world, the Greens are regarded, at best, with amusement, more often than not, as annoying, seen as interfering with people’s smokes, cars and booze, and as downright dangerous when they want to shut down (for example!) that coal-fired power station that’s the only employment in the area. In parallel, therefore, a “new left” is developing (the Linkspartei in Germany, the Nouveau Parti Anticapitaliste in France, the “Popistes” in Switzerland, for example), which is articulating working class frustration with the broken promises of neo-liberalism and the dumbfoundness of socialism.

The new ideology will probably emerge from the synthesis of those two currents and the point of junction is sustainable development, which preserves the environment and provides stable jobs. Neither side yet sees that and tends to regard the other with suspicion and, of course, whether such a model is transposible from hyper-orderly Europe to any other part of the world is another debate.