In order for a war to be just, three things are necessary. First, the authority of the sovereign. Secondly, a just cause. Thirdly, a rightful intention.
Saint Thomas Aquinas

Do you belive that the Gremans acted in JUST CAUSE?

Dresden was bombed in February 1945, three months before the end of the war. The German army was in retreat on all fronts and the allies had already entered German territory. Defeat was inevitable. Dresden was filled with one million refugees and the purpose of the bombing was to murder as many German civilians as possible .

Danny Ray said “I never said it was just war, it was Just a war. unfortunatly you have to kill people and break things to win a war”. If murdering civilians is acceptable then it has to be acceptable for both sides, you can’t say one side can murder civilians and the other side cannot. Of course, the biggest criticism of Germany’s conduct in the war is that it murdered defenseless Jews. Danny Ray, do you consider this acceptable too?

The British and Americans murdered defenseless Germans for no reason at all, except for hatred and possibly as was stated to frighten the Soviets by demonstrating Anglo-American firepower (that is mentioned in the documentary).

An estimated 135,000 people died in two days of bombing that burned the city to the ground. While examining “Operation Thunderclap”, American President Roosevelt declared the German people might have to be “castrated” to make them an extinct people. While Americans and British revel in discussing Hitler’s hate speech, they ignore the psychopathic tendencies of murderers such as Roosevelt and Churchill.

Three part documentary (in Russian with subtitles):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDauzYrBVJE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O49EwgusnL4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsvnKjHMgwE&feature=related

As far as the remaining German forces being desperate or brainwashed, A desprate or brainwashed teenager with a panzerfaust or Schmisser will kill you just as dead and the most hardened old Lanser. we had to end the war we could not just sit around and hope the Germans will decide to give up.

“Of course I’m not a polarizing force, so both Dresden and the Holocaust can exist together… the point is that both sides’ hands were extremely dirty and thus the 2nd world war cannot serve as a model for “just war” theory.”

I never said it was just war, it was Just a war. unfortunatly you have to kill people and break things to win a war.

Did the Soviets enter Berlin before April 30 1945? Yes?

Then the war was largely won by that point. The remaining fighting forces were obviously brainwashed and/or acting our of complete desperation.

The allies had absolutely no reason to drop either the A-bombs, or to commit the fire bombing of Dresden, which left up to 500,000 Germans dead. Except to intimidate the Soviets.

Of course I’m not a polarizing force, so both Dresden and the Holocaust can exist together… the point is that both sides’ hands were extremely dirty and thus the 2nd world war cannot serve as a model for “just war” theory.

Thousand plane raids were par for the course in January and Febuary 1945

Churchill may not have known the target data for the raid Hamburg was hit on the night and days of Feb 4th and 5th. They got 1500 planes and as many as 100k dead. He certainly knew of the amount of damage.

A popular story was that Air Vice admiral Arthur TR Harris (Bomber) did it all on his own due to the fact that His only son was shot down over Dresden in January while flying a pathfinder mission. Wheather or not he did it on his own, harris was the only major commander in the british forces who did not recieve a peerage at wars end.

Also in Febuary 45 the Wermach had 1250000 men in uniform and the russians were being held up on the vistula river. the Americans had just crossed the rine but were hung up in the Rhur Pocket. The rail lines crossed in Dresden and the original raid was to cut the line to increase the Germans line of communication.

The crimes were Churchill’s version of the A-bomb “look out Soviets, we’ve got a lot of FIRE power.

The official end of the second war is usually recognized as happening in 1945, not Spring of 1946. This is because the war was won in 1945 and Hitler died on 30 April 1945

The Dresden bombing had little to do with railways or the war. If you knew anything about the war you would know that. By Feb of 45 Dresden was a gigantic refugee camp.

The “best” estimates are at 250,000… Yes, they are the best for serving a certain purpose.

don’t forget the “saturation” bombing of Dresden after the war had ended, killing up to half a million Germans in what was the biggest massacre in history….

somehow that one seems to be left out of discussions of the 2nd world war too.

The historians from allied countries that write about the mistreatment of Germans are generally criticized in their own countries.

I am not a big fan of Der Spiegel either. In general, it is too anti-German for my taste. The rape of two million German women by the Red Army is a fact that can be found from many sources – not just German ones. Also, I don’t know any Roma historians and I would think their expertise would be on subjects other than Soviet behavior in Germany.

Regarding German historians, many have an anti-German attitude themselves.

A Letter from the Residents of “Aida Refugee Camp to His Holiness, Pope Benedict XVI

Your Holiness,

It is with great pride that we welcome you to our camp. We take great pride in the fact that our camp is one of the many symbols across Palestine for the love shared between the Muslims and Christians of Palestine: when we, our parents, and grandparents, themselves Muslims and Christians, were expelled from our villages in the 1948 Nakba, they came across a Christian Palestinian woman who helped them find shelter in the area that is now the camp. Her name was ‘Aida, a name that means ‘the one who returns,’ and it is after her that the camp is named, and in her honor that the church in the camp was built.

We wish, however, that we would be able to welcome you in our real homes; in Beit Nattif, al-Maliha, Ras Abu Ammar, ‘Allar, Ajjur or any one of the 27 villages from which were displaced in the Nakba. This camp is only our temporary home until we or our children return to our real homes. Even in this temporary home, the state of Israel has not allowed us the most fundamental rights. As you have seen, Israel’s wall has been built as a cage almost completely encircling our homes, the ever-watchful eyes of their soldiers’ sniper towers monitoring every movement, their bullets still lodged in the doors and walls of our houses, our school and the bodies of the injured and the dead. This very school that you have graced today, is one that has been attacked several times by Israel ‘s soldiers, two of its students, aged 9 and 11 years, were injured as they sought shelter in their classrooms.

Much can be done, however, to ease the daily pain of our community. Our students suffer from over-crowded classrooms, and even those who excel are unable to continue their studies at universities, water is always scarce and badly distributed to our homes, our children have no space to play in the overcrowded alleys of the camp.

It is for these reasons that we approach you, your Holiness, on the occasion of your historic visit, to request that you help us in making the lives of our children more bearable, more fruitful, more normal. We approach you asking your help in providing:

· More classrooms for our students. These students study in small classrooms into which over 40 students are squeezed, and our exhausted teachers work double shifts in order to teach everyone;

· Scholarships and financial support for those students who wish to continue their studies in Palestine and abroad, and who are unable to because of financial difficulties and travel restrictions;

· Rehabilitation for our water network in the camp which has decayed over the years resulting in a poor and inconsistent water supply;

· A playground for our children.

We thank you, your Holiness, for honoring us with your visit.

In the Spirit of Love and Justice Shared by all Religions,

The Residents of ‘Aida Refugee Camp, Palestine

May 13, 2009

thus wld have brought us an entirely different pakt. Which would have precluded rise of nazism and it coming to power and the ww2.
holocaust wld have not occurred.
yes, germany wld have been justified in waging war to regain lost lands but not with nazi leadership.
my letters to editors anent this mater have not been published. No commenter on alternate media has to date comented on this issue. tnx

as for der spiegel- it being privately owned- i trust as much as nyt, wash’n post, or j’lem post.
so, please spare me the spiegel and german historians’ lecture. I want to hear also from roma’s and and slav historians.

i think, an army of 300T besieged stalingrad. And, as u say, only 50T surrendered to soviets; of which 5T returned to germany.

You said, “i have expressed doubt that soviet soldiers were allowed to rape any women”. If you read the article I posted above, you may stop expressing that doubt. Here is the article again on the mass rape of German women:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,585779,00.html

You said, “i am aware that alllies have inflicted severe punishment on german people”. You have a way with words. Perhaps the wehrmacht inflicted severe punishment on the allies for the land taken from Germany at Versailles, the economic strangulation of Germany and the blockade against Germany even after WW I was over that caused many Germans to die of starvation (after the war was over). The allies committed atrocities against Germans.

Fortunately for you, it is legal for you to “deny” the mass rape of German women in WW II. If someone “denies” the holocaust occurred in Europe, most countries will put you in jail. I believe Canada may have this law also.

however, i recall that bonn gov’t in the ’60s repeatedly complained to polish communists for not letting germans leave poland for western germany.

when germans were defeated at stalingrad, some 300? german soldiers were taken prisoner by the red army. I am not aware if red army perped any crimes against these prisoners.

one incident i still vividly recall. In my home town of sibenik on adriatic coast, the smal german garrison held in early ’44 for a few days 45 partizani. Then released all of them. I was told, all rejoined partizani.

it seems that the german Kommandant saw the writing on the wall. He may have obtained a promise that his garrison wld not be attacked or held prisoners once the town wld be liberated by partizani.
the town was liberated a yr later without a shot fired.
germans have left a few weeks before liberation.
other germans cld have at the end of the war done the same thing.
it may be noted that germans have not perped crimes against croat civilians but only against partisans.
the wehrmacht had issued order to execute on spot every captured partisan.
they were considered to be, what to ‘jews’ are palestinian ‘terrorists’.
tnx