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	<title>Comments on: Race in the Obama Era</title>
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	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: Charles Minor</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43892</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Minor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43892</guid>
		<description>Oh and by the way Obama isnt fully African American he is half so let me know when we get the first full blooded african american in office. Also to the people who think he is our savior, he will make this country better than you need to go check yourself into a mental facility because he is only going to bring us pain and chaos. If it sounds like Marx... and acts like Stalin... Its probably Obama</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and by the way Obama isnt fully African American he is half so let me know when we get the first full blooded african american in office. Also to the people who think he is our savior, he will make this country better than you need to go check yourself into a mental facility because he is only going to bring us pain and chaos. If it sounds like Marx&#8230; and acts like Stalin&#8230; Its probably Obama</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Minor</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43890</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Minor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 12:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43890</guid>
		<description>This is the some of the dumbest crap i have ever heard and i am saying that in nicely. Obama epuals OBAMAnation and will turn the U.S. into a socialist country. united we stand DIVIDED we fall</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the some of the dumbest crap i have ever heard and i am saying that in nicely. Obama epuals OBAMAnation and will turn the U.S. into a socialist country. united we stand DIVIDED we fall</p>
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		<title>By: beverly</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43137</link>
		<dc:creator>beverly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 01:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43137</guid>
		<description>Well said and then some Martha!!!  

Ms. Taylor should expend her efforts informing black kool-aid drinkers about the real 411 on their Messiah-in-Chief - and tell her mainstream black media brethren to do the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said and then some Martha!!!  </p>
<p>Ms. Taylor should expend her efforts informing black kool-aid drinkers about the real 411 on their Messiah-in-Chief &#8211; and tell her mainstream black media brethren to do the same.</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43098</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 14:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43098</guid>
		<description>max,
i read your explanation about what you meant by blaming the system.
and you say we are in agreement. still, it is OK to say it in diff&#039;rt words.
tnx for reply. bozhidar bob balkas is still praying to &#039;god&#039;; thi stime hoping h&#039;d make me an excellent terrorist; the best ever.
but is s/he/it listening?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>max,<br />
i read your explanation about what you meant by blaming the system.<br />
and you say we are in agreement. still, it is OK to say it in diff&#8217;rt words.<br />
tnx for reply. bozhidar bob balkas is still praying to &#8216;god&#8217;; thi stime hoping h&#8217;d make me an excellent terrorist; the best ever.<br />
but is s/he/it listening?</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43097</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 14:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43097</guid>
		<description>T C,
i forgot to reply to your averment that we can&#039;t change anything by just talking.
even today with diminishing rights, all we got as a tool is our talking/writing.
that&#039;s all shamans/priests had to be able to enserf/enslave people some 10-2o T  yrs ago; later also by king&#039;s/noble&#039;s/priestly army/police.  

enlightenment/education is all we have to break our chains. and we are seeding good seeds. it is a + and will never be a -.
so, i suggest we shun politics as a plague; it being a narrow field of knowledge and  thus a vitiating human activity.

if we wld properly talk about politics we must also at the same time talk about religion, science, causes of warfare, class society, governance,  courts, gov&#039;ts, oneparty system, cia, fbi, police, drug wars, etc.

all this topics are much or completely shunned by politico-clerical class.  i am hoping new readers or even teens wld read this. tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T C,<br />
i forgot to reply to your averment that we can&#8217;t change anything by just talking.<br />
even today with diminishing rights, all we got as a tool is our talking/writing.<br />
that&#8217;s all shamans/priests had to be able to enserf/enslave people some 10-2o T  yrs ago; later also by king&#8217;s/noble&#8217;s/priestly army/police.  </p>
<p>enlightenment/education is all we have to break our chains. and we are seeding good seeds. it is a + and will never be a -.<br />
so, i suggest we shun politics as a plague; it being a narrow field of knowledge and  thus a vitiating human activity.</p>
<p>if we wld properly talk about politics we must also at the same time talk about religion, science, causes of warfare, class society, governance,  courts, gov&#8217;ts, oneparty system, cia, fbi, police, drug wars, etc.</p>
<p>all this topics are much or completely shunned by politico-clerical class.  i am hoping new readers or even teens wld read this. tnx</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43096</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 14:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43096</guid>
		<description>T C,
i am not familiar with the &quot;electoral dissent&quot;.  if i am correctly understanding that label, US  governance [a term that has diff&#039;nt meaning from gov&#039;t] did allow at least four other new parties to enter election and had candidates running for office.
but perhaps you mean smthng else by &quot;electoral dissent&quot;.

written and spoken dissent had always been allowed but not welcomed. individuals, tho,  may have persecuted or fired  some dissenters who governance and gov&#039;ts did nothing to prevent or punish.

however, last few yrs we have seen further restriction of freedom. tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T C,<br />
i am not familiar with the &#8220;electoral dissent&#8221;.  if i am correctly understanding that label, US  governance [a term that has diff'nt meaning from gov't] did allow at least four other new parties to enter election and had candidates running for office.<br />
but perhaps you mean smthng else by &#8220;electoral dissent&#8221;.</p>
<p>written and spoken dissent had always been allowed but not welcomed. individuals, tho,  may have persecuted or fired  some dissenters who governance and gov&#8217;ts did nothing to prevent or punish.</p>
<p>however, last few yrs we have seen further restriction of freedom. tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43074</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 06:57:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43074</guid>
		<description>David Zirin writes ...

&lt;i&gt;I&#039;LL NEVER forget interviewing Lester &quot;Red&quot; Rodney, the 96-year-old former sports editor of the Communist Party&#039;s newspaper, the Daily Worker. Speaking about the Great Depression, Rodney said, &quot;People who weren&#039;t around during the 1930s can&#039;t fully grasp what it was like politically. If you weren&#039;t some kind of radical or socialist...you were considered brain-dead, and you probably were!&quot;&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David Zirin writes &#8230;</p>
<p><i>I&#8217;LL NEVER forget interviewing Lester &#8220;Red&#8221; Rodney, the 96-year-old former sports editor of the Communist Party&#8217;s newspaper, the Daily Worker. Speaking about the Great Depression, Rodney said, &#8220;People who weren&#8217;t around during the 1930s can&#8217;t fully grasp what it was like politically. If you weren&#8217;t some kind of radical or socialist&#8230;you were considered brain-dead, and you probably were!&#8221;</i></p>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43070</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 06:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43070</guid>
		<description>T-C is absolutely correct in why workers vote for the Democrats and without a Left alternative they will continue to vote for the Democrats.   This is why the constant berating of Obama could have a reactionary effect rather than an educational one because people don&#039;t want to be told that their vote was &quot;wasted&quot; and ridiculing them for voting for Obama will backfire on the Left especially since the Left has not shown people of color and the poor that they can get their shit together.

T-C is correct in his assessment of the Republicans.  The Republican are SO awful that the Democrats, without a VIABLE Left-wing alternative, leaves communities of color with no other choice.

Therefore it is up to the Left to get itself organized and offer RADICAL solutions and a RADICAL vision of reorganization of the political economy.  As I mention the Rasmussen survey, all American are today open to the ideas inherent in Socialism.  Socialism has a long affinity in the black community.  This is why the Right tried to pin &quot;Socialism&quot; on Obama.  It was a racist tactic because of Socialism&#039;s affinity.  What this points out is that &quot;Obama-mania&quot; &lt;i&gt;could&lt;/i&gt; be seen as an opportunity if the Left approaches this situation with intelligence and without hyperbole, finger-wagging and proselytizing.  It means having DISCIPLINE and building trust and solidarity. 

Unfortunately I&#039;m not sure if the Left is up to the task.  The Left ruined a perfect opportunity to build a movement against the War on Iraq during the Bush years.  As Bush was the most unpopular President, there should be huge movement yet the Left sabotaged itself especially when it came Zionism.  This doesn&#039;t go unnoticed in communities of color and it leads to DISTRUST of the Left.  Thus the Left has a lot of work to do to rebuild its credibility because one thing that communities of color do not want is betrayal from the Left.  They get enough of that from the Democrats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T-C is absolutely correct in why workers vote for the Democrats and without a Left alternative they will continue to vote for the Democrats.   This is why the constant berating of Obama could have a reactionary effect rather than an educational one because people don&#8217;t want to be told that their vote was &#8220;wasted&#8221; and ridiculing them for voting for Obama will backfire on the Left especially since the Left has not shown people of color and the poor that they can get their shit together.</p>
<p>T-C is correct in his assessment of the Republicans.  The Republican are SO awful that the Democrats, without a VIABLE Left-wing alternative, leaves communities of color with no other choice.</p>
<p>Therefore it is up to the Left to get itself organized and offer RADICAL solutions and a RADICAL vision of reorganization of the political economy.  As I mention the Rasmussen survey, all American are today open to the ideas inherent in Socialism.  Socialism has a long affinity in the black community.  This is why the Right tried to pin &#8220;Socialism&#8221; on Obama.  It was a racist tactic because of Socialism&#8217;s affinity.  What this points out is that &#8220;Obama-mania&#8221; <i>could</i> be seen as an opportunity if the Left approaches this situation with intelligence and without hyperbole, finger-wagging and proselytizing.  It means having DISCIPLINE and building trust and solidarity. </p>
<p>Unfortunately I&#8217;m not sure if the Left is up to the task.  The Left ruined a perfect opportunity to build a movement against the War on Iraq during the Bush years.  As Bush was the most unpopular President, there should be huge movement yet the Left sabotaged itself especially when it came Zionism.  This doesn&#8217;t go unnoticed in communities of color and it leads to DISTRUST of the Left.  Thus the Left has a lot of work to do to rebuild its credibility because one thing that communities of color do not want is betrayal from the Left.  They get enough of that from the Democrats.</p>
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		<title>By: Tennessee-Chavizta</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43064</link>
		<dc:creator>Tennessee-Chavizta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 02:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43064</guid>
		<description>Max Shields: I think that black people, spanish people and poor whites in USA vote for Democrat Party, because Republican Party is so evil, i mean so, so evil and down right Nazi, of unspeakable terms, i mean hardcore in your face fascism and evil alas V. For Vendetta, that the Democrat Party looks like a socialist populist party compared with the in your face fascism of Republicans, and its voters who have very evil mentality of &quot;bombing muslims to stone ages&quot; and stuff like that that I&#039;ve heard from Republican Voters.  

Remember that poor and oppressed people that depend on food-stamp programs, child programs etc. are not dumb.  And they knew about Bush&#039;s constant threatening of cutting welfare aid to poors.  

So i don&#039;t think that Democrat Party is the same as Republican party.  I consider the change of Obama, like a 500 lb. man, that wants to be at 160. lb, but with Democrats he is at 300 lbs. which is still fat, but a lot better than 500 lbs.

And that&#039;s why the oppressed sectors of USA voted for Obama, because remember &quot;Vox Populis, Vox Deus&quot; (The voice of the people, is the voice of God).

Remember that John Mccain and Sarah Palin were even gonna bomb Spain, they were threatening Spain.  Those people are real wackos, specially the Republican Evangelical voters from the Red States. who are every weird people.  

I don&#039;t understand how can America, this country which was founded with very nice moral laws, christian laws, etc. has produced so many sick individuals, millions of individuals like the Republican Party evangelical voters.

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max Shields: I think that black people, spanish people and poor whites in USA vote for Democrat Party, because Republican Party is so evil, i mean so, so evil and down right Nazi, of unspeakable terms, i mean hardcore in your face fascism and evil alas V. For Vendetta, that the Democrat Party looks like a socialist populist party compared with the in your face fascism of Republicans, and its voters who have very evil mentality of &#8220;bombing muslims to stone ages&#8221; and stuff like that that I&#8217;ve heard from Republican Voters.  </p>
<p>Remember that poor and oppressed people that depend on food-stamp programs, child programs etc. are not dumb.  And they knew about Bush&#8217;s constant threatening of cutting welfare aid to poors.  </p>
<p>So i don&#8217;t think that Democrat Party is the same as Republican party.  I consider the change of Obama, like a 500 lb. man, that wants to be at 160. lb, but with Democrats he is at 300 lbs. which is still fat, but a lot better than 500 lbs.</p>
<p>And that&#8217;s why the oppressed sectors of USA voted for Obama, because remember &#8220;Vox Populis, Vox Deus&#8221; (The voice of the people, is the voice of God).</p>
<p>Remember that John Mccain and Sarah Palin were even gonna bomb Spain, they were threatening Spain.  Those people are real wackos, specially the Republican Evangelical voters from the Red States. who are every weird people.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t understand how can America, this country which was founded with very nice moral laws, christian laws, etc. has produced so many sick individuals, millions of individuals like the Republican Party evangelical voters.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: Tennessee-Chavizta</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43061</link>
		<dc:creator>Tennessee-Chavizta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 02:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43061</guid>
		<description>bozh said on April 11th, 2009 at 8:32am #

I am sorry but i don&#039;t think US government tolerates real dissent. It only tolerates the right to talk, a talktative-dissent if you will. But not electoral dissent, which is the real threat to the capitalist class of this country.  But you can&#039;t overthrow the capitalist system in USA with just talking.  You need a real electoral dissident movement in order to overthrow the US capitalist-government, and replace it with a socialist-government.

.

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bozh said on April 11th, 2009 at 8:32am #</p>
<p>I am sorry but i don&#8217;t think US government tolerates real dissent. It only tolerates the right to talk, a talktative-dissent if you will. But not electoral dissent, which is the real threat to the capitalist class of this country.  But you can&#8217;t overthrow the capitalist system in USA with just talking.  You need a real electoral dissident movement in order to overthrow the US capitalist-government, and replace it with a socialist-government.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43058</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 00:47:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43058</guid>
		<description>Aside from the race issue, which is a conundrum in and of itself, there are a number of points of tension when talking about participatory democracy. One is the structural tension between centralization and decentralization. 

Power concentrated structurally, the industrialization of power if you will, is the antithesis of participatory democracy. And yet there has been a history of centralization in the implementation of socialistic and capitalistic systems. The tendency toward growth, economies of scale, thousand acre mega-farms, massive edifaces, artifical landscapes are all unnatural outcomes of powerful centralized systems.

Decentralization is the alternative. It is not an &quot;ism&quot;, but it provides a human-scaled existence which can allow for deep participatory democracy. The social structure must be utterly changed to adapt and learn how to be democratic. There is no democracy in a centralized, consumer based social structure.

Economics is not of a piece, but integral to the whole interplay between our daily lives, the incentives that motivate us, and the wants and needs that are only partly formed at birth. We are the result of an environment that has come before us, but that continues to emerge. This emergence is powerful, and natural.

The choices are ours, but gasping this is the constraint to real change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aside from the race issue, which is a conundrum in and of itself, there are a number of points of tension when talking about participatory democracy. One is the structural tension between centralization and decentralization. </p>
<p>Power concentrated structurally, the industrialization of power if you will, is the antithesis of participatory democracy. And yet there has been a history of centralization in the implementation of socialistic and capitalistic systems. The tendency toward growth, economies of scale, thousand acre mega-farms, massive edifaces, artifical landscapes are all unnatural outcomes of powerful centralized systems.</p>
<p>Decentralization is the alternative. It is not an &#8220;ism&#8221;, but it provides a human-scaled existence which can allow for deep participatory democracy. The social structure must be utterly changed to adapt and learn how to be democratic. There is no democracy in a centralized, consumer based social structure.</p>
<p>Economics is not of a piece, but integral to the whole interplay between our daily lives, the incentives that motivate us, and the wants and needs that are only partly formed at birth. We are the result of an environment that has come before us, but that continues to emerge. This emergence is powerful, and natural.</p>
<p>The choices are ours, but gasping this is the constraint to real change.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Horn</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43056</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 00:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43056</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your thoughtful responses.  Because most people appear to have left this particular commentary site, I think I&#039;ll return to this topic on another occasion, particularly one in which I might have some allies and when I might not have to face you two bullies alone.  ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your thoughtful responses.  Because most people appear to have left this particular commentary site, I think I&#8217;ll return to this topic on another occasion, particularly one in which I might have some allies and when I might not have to face you two bullies alone.  ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43051</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43051</guid>
		<description>bozh:&quot; i blame it all on liars, deceivers, no system can exist without people.&quot;

That&#039;s my point. Though systems can facilitate certain actions and behaviors...they tend to reflect the power structure or the social structure. It become a symbiotic relationship after a while.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bozh:&#8221; i blame it all on liars, deceivers, no system can exist without people.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s my point. Though systems can facilitate certain actions and behaviors&#8230;they tend to reflect the power structure or the social structure. It become a symbiotic relationship after a while.</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43048</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:25:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43048</guid>
		<description>max, respectfully,
i blame it all on liars, deceivers. no system can exist without people. so some people are entirely to blame for all ills that befall us on interpersonal and int&#039;l level.

it shld be remembered we all emanate from one genetic pool; thus, i have no control over  my fate; as marlo, said, I cldhave been a champion.
and i say i cld have been a murderer, rapist, tief, deceiver. in fact, since god didn&#039;t make me good, i thought she cld make bad. so, for yrs i&#039;ve been praying to her to make a thief and join a huge crowd.
but don&#039;t worry, she&#039;s not listening.

people born as thieves, murderers need our attention and help. Some people may dysfucntional from childhood; so why are we on moon, all over the world instead paying attention and treating socalled deviants.
tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>max, respectfully,<br />
i blame it all on liars, deceivers. no system can exist without people. so some people are entirely to blame for all ills that befall us on interpersonal and int&#8217;l level.</p>
<p>it shld be remembered we all emanate from one genetic pool; thus, i have no control over  my fate; as marlo, said, I cldhave been a champion.<br />
and i say i cld have been a murderer, rapist, tief, deceiver. in fact, since god didn&#8217;t make me good, i thought she cld make bad. so, for yrs i&#8217;ve been praying to her to make a thief and join a huge crowd.<br />
but don&#8217;t worry, she&#8217;s not listening.</p>
<p>people born as thieves, murderers need our attention and help. Some people may dysfucntional from childhood; so why are we on moon, all over the world instead paying attention and treating socalled deviants.<br />
tnx</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43046</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 23:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43046</guid>
		<description>ron, 
the four pillars of a fair[er] life are health care, free education, more freedom, and no wars of aggression.

from this it is difficult or nigh impossible for me to grasp why 37% of amers consider  socialism better than  americanism, or a special case of capitalism, when nearly 98% just rejected the four staffs of life.

so, what does their socialism mean? what do their socialism and socialists want to do?  i don&#039;t want definitions- i want to now  what is their agenda?
but may be i know the answer after what happened last november. tx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ron,<br />
the four pillars of a fair[er] life are health care, free education, more freedom, and no wars of aggression.</p>
<p>from this it is difficult or nigh impossible for me to grasp why 37% of amers consider  socialism better than  americanism, or a special case of capitalism, when nearly 98% just rejected the four staffs of life.</p>
<p>so, what does their socialism mean? what do their socialism and socialists want to do?  i don&#8217;t want definitions- i want to now  what is their agenda?<br />
but may be i know the answer after what happened last november. tx</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43045</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43045</guid>
		<description>The Earth Charter can provide guidence to this larger goal. http://www.earthcharterinaction.org/content/

We are not without ideals nor means. We are however dominated by a narrative of fear and domination which holds (have held)  these ideals captive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Earth Charter can provide guidence to this larger goal. <a href="http://www.earthcharterinaction.org/content/" rel="nofollow">http://www.earthcharterinaction.org/content/</a></p>
<p>We are not without ideals nor means. We are however dominated by a narrative of fear and domination which holds (have held)  these ideals captive.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43044</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 22:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43044</guid>
		<description>While there is some merit in blaming it all on the &quot;system&quot;, the &quot;system&quot; is a vehicle and it is, most I say, a human invention.

Yes, the US economic system is what it is, but it is just an oversimplication (and I would add a major injustice) to provide impunity to those who benefit and drive and shape it.

The US economic system is not static. It has laws and loop holes which are leveraged and used by the powerful, by elite.

It is very to realize the limitations of a system, that there are also laws which do not pertain to a &quot;system&quot; but to human behavior. We live by those laws, some made law through treaties, or we live in a lawless state. Laws have been used, as mentioned, to bolster the powerful, but there are laws which are meant to intrude on injustices, on grave crimes and they are fairly clear. We don&#039;t put a system in prison, at least not as far as I can tell.

As to the point about democracy, and making it participatory, that is complex task. First, participatory democracy demands constant engagement and vigilance. It also requires deep learning, and an understanding of limits. Interdependency is critical. It is the only thing that creates community and democracy without a strong sense of our interdependencies is meaningless. 

The overarching system is the natural system, or ecosystem. Until we come to terms with that, our invented systems of polity, economy and culture are worthless and generally dangerous. Devising a &quot;system&quot; that is in balance with the larger life giving system is the first step to creating a world that is based on universal principles. Those principles have been in existence since time immorial. They are embedded in every great religion, philosophy and are present in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html)

But, this does not get individuals off the hook who behave criminally, nor does it simply forgive it all to a system that made &quot;him/her&quot; do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While there is some merit in blaming it all on the &#8220;system&#8221;, the &#8220;system&#8221; is a vehicle and it is, most I say, a human invention.</p>
<p>Yes, the US economic system is what it is, but it is just an oversimplication (and I would add a major injustice) to provide impunity to those who benefit and drive and shape it.</p>
<p>The US economic system is not static. It has laws and loop holes which are leveraged and used by the powerful, by elite.</p>
<p>It is very to realize the limitations of a system, that there are also laws which do not pertain to a &#8220;system&#8221; but to human behavior. We live by those laws, some made law through treaties, or we live in a lawless state. Laws have been used, as mentioned, to bolster the powerful, but there are laws which are meant to intrude on injustices, on grave crimes and they are fairly clear. We don&#8217;t put a system in prison, at least not as far as I can tell.</p>
<p>As to the point about democracy, and making it participatory, that is complex task. First, participatory democracy demands constant engagement and vigilance. It also requires deep learning, and an understanding of limits. Interdependency is critical. It is the only thing that creates community and democracy without a strong sense of our interdependencies is meaningless. </p>
<p>The overarching system is the natural system, or ecosystem. Until we come to terms with that, our invented systems of polity, economy and culture are worthless and generally dangerous. Devising a &#8220;system&#8221; that is in balance with the larger life giving system is the first step to creating a world that is based on universal principles. Those principles have been in existence since time immorial. They are embedded in every great religion, philosophy and are present in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (<a href="http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html</a>)</p>
<p>But, this does not get individuals off the hook who behave criminally, nor does it simply forgive it all to a system that made &#8220;him/her&#8221; do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Horn</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43017</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Horn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 18:34:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43017</guid>
		<description>Until we on the &quot;left&quot; come to the realization that the problem is the system, then we will forever read a lot of rants on websites like this.  This applies especially to the US and Canadian left who mostly only aspire to have their countries remain peaceful, have good job opportunities, and universal health care.  (Yes, Boz, Canadians have the latter, but it could be a lot better.)   

People have become so conditioned to living in a system where only a few are allowed to participate in any meaningful way to determine how their workplace is managed, how people are rewarded for their work, how their schools are run, what news is covered by the media and how it is covered, how taxes are spent, how foreign policy is shaped, etc.   

While the ruling class deprives ordinary people from any meaningful participation, they hold out &quot;The American Dream&quot; which is mostly about getting rich--the quicker, the better.  Because this has become more and more untenable, the people are provided with casinos.  This is an contemporary version of &quot;let them eat cake&quot;.   

It is the economic system, stupid!  The system is designed to do what it in fact does:  create wealth for a tiny minority which inevitably ends up destroying communities, the environment, the lives of many working people, and constantly engaging in wars over markets, resources, and cheap labor.  Yes, isms and ideology are important, absolutely!  It is not much about individuals.  So ranting on about this leader or that leader regardless of race seems to me to be rather futile.

With the current breakdown of the capitalist system, I think the time is ripe to focus on system issues.   Many people are beginning to do so.  The Rasmussen poll that DB referred to reported the following results: 

&quot;Only 53% of American adults believe capitalism is better than socialism.

&quot;The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 20% disagree and say socialism is better. Twenty-seven percent (27%) are not sure which is better.

&quot;Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% prefer capitalism, 33% socialism, and 30% are undecided. Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive of the free-enterprise approach with 49% for capitalism and 26% for socialism. Adults over 40 strongly favor capitalism, and just 13% of those older Americans believe socialism is better.

&quot;Investors by a 5-to-1 margin choose capitalism. As for those who do not invest, 40% say capitalism is better while 25% prefer socialism.&quot;

The online edition of the Merrian-Webster dictionary recently announced that the Word of the Year for 2008 was ... bailout.  But third on this list was &quot;SOCIALISM&quot;!

I would like to see much more discussion and examination of the most basic questions of all:  What is democracy, and how can we design a system where everyone can meaningfully participate in decisions that affect their lives?  What property should be privately owned?  What should constitute social property?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until we on the &#8220;left&#8221; come to the realization that the problem is the system, then we will forever read a lot of rants on websites like this.  This applies especially to the US and Canadian left who mostly only aspire to have their countries remain peaceful, have good job opportunities, and universal health care.  (Yes, Boz, Canadians have the latter, but it could be a lot better.)   </p>
<p>People have become so conditioned to living in a system where only a few are allowed to participate in any meaningful way to determine how their workplace is managed, how people are rewarded for their work, how their schools are run, what news is covered by the media and how it is covered, how taxes are spent, how foreign policy is shaped, etc.   </p>
<p>While the ruling class deprives ordinary people from any meaningful participation, they hold out &#8220;The American Dream&#8221; which is mostly about getting rich&#8211;the quicker, the better.  Because this has become more and more untenable, the people are provided with casinos.  This is an contemporary version of &#8220;let them eat cake&#8221;.   </p>
<p>It is the economic system, stupid!  The system is designed to do what it in fact does:  create wealth for a tiny minority which inevitably ends up destroying communities, the environment, the lives of many working people, and constantly engaging in wars over markets, resources, and cheap labor.  Yes, isms and ideology are important, absolutely!  It is not much about individuals.  So ranting on about this leader or that leader regardless of race seems to me to be rather futile.</p>
<p>With the current breakdown of the capitalist system, I think the time is ripe to focus on system issues.   Many people are beginning to do so.  The Rasmussen poll that DB referred to reported the following results: </p>
<p>&#8220;Only 53% of American adults believe capitalism is better than socialism.</p>
<p>&#8220;The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 20% disagree and say socialism is better. Twenty-seven percent (27%) are not sure which is better.</p>
<p>&#8220;Adults under 30 are essentially evenly divided: 37% prefer capitalism, 33% socialism, and 30% are undecided. Thirty-somethings are a bit more supportive of the free-enterprise approach with 49% for capitalism and 26% for socialism. Adults over 40 strongly favor capitalism, and just 13% of those older Americans believe socialism is better.</p>
<p>&#8220;Investors by a 5-to-1 margin choose capitalism. As for those who do not invest, 40% say capitalism is better while 25% prefer socialism.&#8221;</p>
<p>The online edition of the Merrian-Webster dictionary recently announced that the Word of the Year for 2008 was &#8230; bailout.  But third on this list was &#8220;SOCIALISM&#8221;!</p>
<p>I would like to see much more discussion and examination of the most basic questions of all:  What is democracy, and how can we design a system where everyone can meaningfully participate in decisions that affect their lives?  What property should be privately owned?  What should constitute social property?</p>
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		<title>By: Max Shields</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43008</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Shields</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43008</guid>
		<description>DB, my earlier diatribe was just a cry for MERCY given the author&#039;s refrain about Obama. The fact Mr. Taylor writes for the Internationalist Socialist Review should give all pause. This is like Obama being the &quot;anti-war&quot; war president.

As far as the issues, many here, including myself has expressed the issues as I/we see them. There are African Americans who post here who see right through the audacity of lies that represent the Obama/Dem agenda. 

If someone believes in Santa Claus - are YOU going to convince them otherwise? First, is the &quot;belief&quot; even worthy of discussion?

But Obama is not Santa Claus as much as some keep writing those godawful Dear President Obama letters...that go on to say, please, pretty please don&#039;t put that corporatist/Monsanto Mouth Piece in as Secretary of Agriculture....and please or pretty pretty please, stay away from the misogynistic and ugly neoliberal Summers, won&#039;t you please....and President O, I know you mean well, but could you please stop killing children in Afghanistan/Pakistan? Oooooohhhhhh PLEASE; and Mr. President would you stop bailing out the Banksters, even if they paid for you to be our President...wouldn&#039;t please?

That&#039;s the kind of godawful shit that is endlessly displayed all around the &quot;progressive&quot; blogs and letters to editors. 

Barack Hussein Obama is a WAR CRIMINAL. That&#039;s the truth, if you have problems with it don&#039;t argue with me, you&#039;re argument is with the Nuremberg principles. BHO is a WAR CRIMINAL. Let&#039;s just cut to the f*cking chase. And the little old ladies who marched against the war in Iraq and Bush, are NOWHERE to be found as they write their little notes about writing your Congressman to let them know you support President Obama&#039;s call to reduce nuclear weapons. These head up their arse old bitties WOULDN&quot;T listen to reason. Like OBAMA IS A WAR CRIMINAL. When you got your own in office YOU put your hands over your ears and stop listening DEADBEAT.

The end to this madness will come through it&#039;s own destructive means. We need to do what we can to prepare for the outcome as best we can.

If people want to believe in the Easter Bunny...then....THAT&quot;S ALL FOLKS!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DB, my earlier diatribe was just a cry for MERCY given the author&#8217;s refrain about Obama. The fact Mr. Taylor writes for the Internationalist Socialist Review should give all pause. This is like Obama being the &#8220;anti-war&#8221; war president.</p>
<p>As far as the issues, many here, including myself has expressed the issues as I/we see them. There are African Americans who post here who see right through the audacity of lies that represent the Obama/Dem agenda. </p>
<p>If someone believes in Santa Claus &#8211; are YOU going to convince them otherwise? First, is the &#8220;belief&#8221; even worthy of discussion?</p>
<p>But Obama is not Santa Claus as much as some keep writing those godawful Dear President Obama letters&#8230;that go on to say, please, pretty please don&#8217;t put that corporatist/Monsanto Mouth Piece in as Secretary of Agriculture&#8230;.and please or pretty pretty please, stay away from the misogynistic and ugly neoliberal Summers, won&#8217;t you please&#8230;.and President O, I know you mean well, but could you please stop killing children in Afghanistan/Pakistan? Oooooohhhhhh PLEASE; and Mr. President would you stop bailing out the Banksters, even if they paid for you to be our President&#8230;wouldn&#8217;t please?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the kind of godawful shit that is endlessly displayed all around the &#8220;progressive&#8221; blogs and letters to editors. </p>
<p>Barack Hussein Obama is a WAR CRIMINAL. That&#8217;s the truth, if you have problems with it don&#8217;t argue with me, you&#8217;re argument is with the Nuremberg principles. BHO is a WAR CRIMINAL. Let&#8217;s just cut to the f*cking chase. And the little old ladies who marched against the war in Iraq and Bush, are NOWHERE to be found as they write their little notes about writing your Congressman to let them know you support President Obama&#8217;s call to reduce nuclear weapons. These head up their arse old bitties WOULDN&#8221;T listen to reason. Like OBAMA IS A WAR CRIMINAL. When you got your own in office YOU put your hands over your ears and stop listening DEADBEAT.</p>
<p>The end to this madness will come through it&#8217;s own destructive means. We need to do what we can to prepare for the outcome as best we can.</p>
<p>If people want to believe in the Easter Bunny&#8230;then&#8230;.THAT&#8221;S ALL FOLKS!!!</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/race-in-the-obama-era/#comment-43007</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7644#comment-43007</guid>
		<description>tennessee.
some of the aspects of situation in US are the same as elsewhere and some are similar.  at least we on DV shld not analyze all or most events  in US as existing in isolation from world events.

at this time, i can&#039;t think of one trait in US that is unique; totally/purely american,  having no connection with religion [cults, really], feudality, warfare, greed, fears, supremacism, &#039;education&#039;.

the aspect  people in the world [and not just USans] eschew  or  do not analyze, is the fact that US was not ivolved in major wars as europeans have been.
when at war, US was attacking weaklings and never ever had been attacked.  Propagandists took advantage of this fact by mounting a propaganda model that was more successful than anywhere else.

the propaganda always had one and the same aim: to make sure that the vast amers never participate in the governance  in US and to make nonruling class  believe that because of ruling class&#039; guidance, wisdom, nobility, etc., the country became the strongest and best in the world.

US propaganda model differs from nazi or communist models.  Nazis did not tolerate even silence; a voiced support was demanded.
communists, on the other hand, tolerated silence but like the nazis they did not tolerate dissent.

US model allowed dissent; silence was OK and actualy nurtured. Of three models,  US model,  as we can see,  was by far &#039;superior&#039;.

thus it wld be dsiappointing to expect in a few yrs  a propaganda model change; it may take decades. tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tennessee.<br />
some of the aspects of situation in US are the same as elsewhere and some are similar.  at least we on DV shld not analyze all or most events  in US as existing in isolation from world events.</p>
<p>at this time, i can&#8217;t think of one trait in US that is unique; totally/purely american,  having no connection with religion [cults, really], feudality, warfare, greed, fears, supremacism, &#8216;education&#8217;.</p>
<p>the aspect  people in the world [and not just USans] eschew  or  do not analyze, is the fact that US was not ivolved in major wars as europeans have been.<br />
when at war, US was attacking weaklings and never ever had been attacked.  Propagandists took advantage of this fact by mounting a propaganda model that was more successful than anywhere else.</p>
<p>the propaganda always had one and the same aim: to make sure that the vast amers never participate in the governance  in US and to make nonruling class  believe that because of ruling class&#8217; guidance, wisdom, nobility, etc., the country became the strongest and best in the world.</p>
<p>US propaganda model differs from nazi or communist models.  Nazis did not tolerate even silence; a voiced support was demanded.<br />
communists, on the other hand, tolerated silence but like the nazis they did not tolerate dissent.</p>
<p>US model allowed dissent; silence was OK and actualy nurtured. Of three models,  US model,  as we can see,  was by far &#8216;superior&#8217;.</p>
<p>thus it wld be dsiappointing to expect in a few yrs  a propaganda model change; it may take decades. tnx</p>
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