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	<title>Comments on: Madoff: The Simple, Clean, Curative Bond Proposal That Has Been Completely Forgotten</title>
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	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/madoff-the-simple-clean-curative-bond-proposal-that-has-been-completely-forgotten/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: Deadbeat</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/madoff-the-simple-clean-curative-bond-proposal-that-has-been-completely-forgotten/#comment-42481</link>
		<dc:creator>Deadbeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 21:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7502#comment-42481</guid>
		<description>Also Madoff was the Chairman of the NASDAQ.  Let&#039;s not lose sight of that very important fact.  The markets and especially banking are rigged and thus useless and a ripoff. What really is missing from this analysis is how workers for the past 30 years has been ripped off and hyper-exploited which is what generated the surplus for the financial industry to gamble in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also Madoff was the Chairman of the NASDAQ.  Let&#8217;s not lose sight of that very important fact.  The markets and especially banking are rigged and thus useless and a ripoff. What really is missing from this analysis is how workers for the past 30 years has been ripped off and hyper-exploited which is what generated the surplus for the financial industry to gamble in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: rosemarie jackowski</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/madoff-the-simple-clean-curative-bond-proposal-that-has-been-completely-forgotten/#comment-42474</link>
		<dc:creator>rosemarie jackowski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 19:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7502#comment-42474</guid>
		<description>Call it boundless euphoria (Ward Churchill won) - but nothing could make this day more perfect than the total collapse of the US banking system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Call it boundless euphoria (Ward Churchill won) &#8211; but nothing could make this day more perfect than the total collapse of the US banking system.</p>
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		<title>By: Synic3</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/madoff-the-simple-clean-curative-bond-proposal-that-has-been-completely-forgotten/#comment-42423</link>
		<dc:creator>Synic3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 00:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7502#comment-42423</guid>
		<description>&quot;help restore confidence in markets by showing that the government will not allow innocent victims to suffer …”

What a piece of a shitty suggestion.  Most Madeoff  investors were the super wealthy regardless of the advertised bullshit that &quot;simple people
lost it all&quot;.  I am sure almost all of them put an act and exagerated their losses.
In my opinion Madeoff &quot;scam&quot; was not a scam at all but just  a hedge fund that went bust in the current  economic bust.  Yes, at the end
he started paying  claimants from the capital because there were  no profits
He is seventy years old and he decided to sacrifice himself  and claim it
a ponzi scam to help his friends and relatives to recoup some money
from insurance .  And the power- that- be agreed to that to save what is left of the hedge fund industry  reputation??
His sons lost money,  his lawyer lost money.   Did he scam his own sons
and his lawyer??!!  Is that make sense??!!  Is such a huge operation with
all that forms and records are run by a single man who nobody knew 
what he was doing??!!    Come on??!!


fi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;help restore confidence in markets by showing that the government will not allow innocent victims to suffer …”</p>
<p>What a piece of a shitty suggestion.  Most Madeoff  investors were the super wealthy regardless of the advertised bullshit that &#8220;simple people<br />
lost it all&#8221;.  I am sure almost all of them put an act and exagerated their losses.<br />
In my opinion Madeoff &#8220;scam&#8221; was not a scam at all but just  a hedge fund that went bust in the current  economic bust.  Yes, at the end<br />
he started paying  claimants from the capital because there were  no profits<br />
He is seventy years old and he decided to sacrifice himself  and claim it<br />
a ponzi scam to help his friends and relatives to recoup some money<br />
from insurance .  And the power- that- be agreed to that to save what is left of the hedge fund industry  reputation??<br />
His sons lost money,  his lawyer lost money.   Did he scam his own sons<br />
and his lawyer??!!  Is that make sense??!!  Is such a huge operation with<br />
all that forms and records are run by a single man who nobody knew<br />
what he was doing??!!    Come on??!!</p>
<p>fi</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/madoff-the-simple-clean-curative-bond-proposal-that-has-been-completely-forgotten/#comment-42400</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 13:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7502#comment-42400</guid>
		<description>According to your proposal, Madoff&#039;s &quot;prime&quot; or &quot;first-class&quot; investors (not the few suckers who really lost it all) will double their money, getting from US taxpayers the same amounts that Madoff has already sent (again, tax-free) to their bank accounts in Israel. 

Brilliant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to your proposal, Madoff&#8217;s &#8220;prime&#8221; or &#8220;first-class&#8221; investors (not the few suckers who really lost it all) will double their money, getting from US taxpayers the same amounts that Madoff has already sent (again, tax-free) to their bank accounts in Israel. </p>
<p>Brilliant.</p>
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		<title>By: Kaelieh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/madoff-the-simple-clean-curative-bond-proposal-that-has-been-completely-forgotten/#comment-42381</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaelieh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Apr 2009 00:36:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7502#comment-42381</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad to see someone finally propose a different idea than the scam Washington keeps peddling. I&#039;d rather get something tangible, like gold or silver. I wouldn&#039;t trust getting any money from the bond since I think the dollar will collapse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad to see someone finally propose a different idea than the scam Washington keeps peddling. I&#8217;d rather get something tangible, like gold or silver. I wouldn&#8217;t trust getting any money from the bond since I think the dollar will collapse.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/madoff-the-simple-clean-curative-bond-proposal-that-has-been-completely-forgotten/#comment-42376</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 22:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7502#comment-42376</guid>
		<description>Well, here is my (depends on Forex) two cents worth.

Washington

Haifa

Tel Aviv

US Congress

US Senate

Zionism

Repeat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, here is my (depends on Forex) two cents worth.</p>
<p>Washington</p>
<p>Haifa</p>
<p>Tel Aviv</p>
<p>US Congress</p>
<p>US Senate</p>
<p>Zionism</p>
<p>Repeat</p>
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		<title>By: deodand</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/madoff-the-simple-clean-curative-bond-proposal-that-has-been-completely-forgotten/#comment-42368</link>
		<dc:creator>deodand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 20:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7502#comment-42368</guid>
		<description>Absolutely not! What a reprehensible proposal, this is just  blatant and disgusting favoritism of a small subset of victims. Where are the bailouts for the autoworkers? For the victims of a bankruptcy-inducing healthcare system? For those whose jobs have been outsourced and destroyed? For foreclosees and predator lendees?

Just because a group of oligarchic billionaires is receiving trillions of dollars in a criminal bailout, doesn&#039;t mean that a bunch of foolish, greedy millionaires who were taken by a common criminal should be given billions in bailouts, too. In other words, one greater moral wrong does not make a lesser moral wrong right.

Every hundred billion dollars you so blithely propose to hand out is a TAXATION upon all of us through national debt, currency debasement, and inflation. 

And it especially a taxation upon the middle and working classes, and upon the young and the future generations, who must bear the burden of your immoral proposal and yet never had a chance to invest in &#039;sure-thing&#039; ponzi schemes at 10% annualized returns -- and whose own meager savings in bank accounts today earn BARELY 1% -- and you have the UTTER GALL to give GUARANTEED 7% returns? TAX FREE?

This is the most irresponsible drivel imaginable. You should be utterly ashamed of yourself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely not! What a reprehensible proposal, this is just  blatant and disgusting favoritism of a small subset of victims. Where are the bailouts for the autoworkers? For the victims of a bankruptcy-inducing healthcare system? For those whose jobs have been outsourced and destroyed? For foreclosees and predator lendees?</p>
<p>Just because a group of oligarchic billionaires is receiving trillions of dollars in a criminal bailout, doesn&#8217;t mean that a bunch of foolish, greedy millionaires who were taken by a common criminal should be given billions in bailouts, too. In other words, one greater moral wrong does not make a lesser moral wrong right.</p>
<p>Every hundred billion dollars you so blithely propose to hand out is a TAXATION upon all of us through national debt, currency debasement, and inflation. </p>
<p>And it especially a taxation upon the middle and working classes, and upon the young and the future generations, who must bear the burden of your immoral proposal and yet never had a chance to invest in &#8216;sure-thing&#8217; ponzi schemes at 10% annualized returns &#8212; and whose own meager savings in bank accounts today earn BARELY 1% &#8212; and you have the UTTER GALL to give GUARANTEED 7% returns? TAX FREE?</p>
<p>This is the most irresponsible drivel imaginable. You should be utterly ashamed of yourself.</p>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/madoff-the-simple-clean-curative-bond-proposal-that-has-been-completely-forgotten/#comment-42362</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 18:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7502#comment-42362</guid>
		<description>the oligarchy exists as part of US governance; thus musing about the oligarchy, its thieving or even criminal action only and also thinking of it as a separate entity, totally detached from gov&#039;t and governance, cannot produce an elucidation.
to me, that&#039;s the same thinking that enabled the crooks to steal so much.

it almost like saying that there had been and still is a higher gov&#039;t than one elected.
one educes, perforce, there must have been either knowledgable enablers  or enablers who knew little about banking practises. 
or was there no governmental supervision whatever?

from this, one cld deduce, that USans need to find out how and when all that happened before throwing [possibly] good money after bad.
but the question arises was the rash bailout applied  as a coverup for much of nonfeasance? tnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the oligarchy exists as part of US governance; thus musing about the oligarchy, its thieving or even criminal action only and also thinking of it as a separate entity, totally detached from gov&#8217;t and governance, cannot produce an elucidation.<br />
to me, that&#8217;s the same thinking that enabled the crooks to steal so much.</p>
<p>it almost like saying that there had been and still is a higher gov&#8217;t than one elected.<br />
one educes, perforce, there must have been either knowledgable enablers  or enablers who knew little about banking practises.<br />
or was there no governmental supervision whatever?</p>
<p>from this, one cld deduce, that USans need to find out how and when all that happened before throwing [possibly] good money after bad.<br />
but the question arises was the rash bailout applied  as a coverup for much of nonfeasance? tnx</p>
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		<title>By: Tony C.</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/04/madoff-the-simple-clean-curative-bond-proposal-that-has-been-completely-forgotten/#comment-42357</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Apr 2009 17:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dissidentvoice.org/?p=7502#comment-42357</guid>
		<description>&quot;...help restore confidence in markets by showing that the government will not allow innocent victims to suffer ...&quot;

Sorry, but this is the fatal flaw in your proposal. These were nothing like &quot;innocent victims&quot;. In fact, that&#039;s nonsense, and is particularly galling given that the Madoff investors were, with few if any exceptions, both greedy and stupid. They were greedy because the whole attraction to him was his purported ability to produce higher returns – unrealistically high and consistent returns, in fact – than his competitors. Investors and funds which actually did their due diligence stayed away from him for precisely those reasons. Many of the investors were stupid because investing in the stock market has always been a form of gambling, and no smart investor would ever put all of their eggs in one basket.

Now, it is true that some of the feeder funds claimed to be engaging in very careful due diligence (e.g. Fairfield Greenwich), and they deserve to be punished. But the bottom line is that those who invested in Madoff chose him because they were greedy, and willfully ignored the &quot;if it seems to good to be true...&quot; maxim.

The vast majority of them can well afford to take the hit, and are still able to live at levels unfathomable to billions of people around the world. Bailing them out would actually have the opposite effect that you claim: in would further deflate confidence in the markets, just as the bailouts of reckless, insolvent banks have done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;help restore confidence in markets by showing that the government will not allow innocent victims to suffer &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry, but this is the fatal flaw in your proposal. These were nothing like &#8220;innocent victims&#8221;. In fact, that&#8217;s nonsense, and is particularly galling given that the Madoff investors were, with few if any exceptions, both greedy and stupid. They were greedy because the whole attraction to him was his purported ability to produce higher returns – unrealistically high and consistent returns, in fact – than his competitors. Investors and funds which actually did their due diligence stayed away from him for precisely those reasons. Many of the investors were stupid because investing in the stock market has always been a form of gambling, and no smart investor would ever put all of their eggs in one basket.</p>
<p>Now, it is true that some of the feeder funds claimed to be engaging in very careful due diligence (e.g. Fairfield Greenwich), and they deserve to be punished. But the bottom line is that those who invested in Madoff chose him because they were greedy, and willfully ignored the &#8220;if it seems to good to be true&#8230;&#8221; maxim.</p>
<p>The vast majority of them can well afford to take the hit, and are still able to live at levels unfathomable to billions of people around the world. Bailing them out would actually have the opposite effect that you claim: in would further deflate confidence in the markets, just as the bailouts of reckless, insolvent banks have done.</p>
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