None of these are religous values….they are humanistic. They come from interactions with humans (and other animals). No gods anywhere around.

The second:
March 9, 2009
Pastor Is Shot and Killed at an Illinois Church

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
MARYVILLE, Ill. (AP) — A pastor was shot to death and two congregants were stabbed Sunday at a church here near St. Louis, the police said.

A man strode down the aisle of First Baptist Church during the early morning service and briefly spoke with the Rev. Fred Winters, then pulled out a .45-caliber semiautomatic pistol and began firing until it jammed, said Larry G. Trent, director of the Illinois State Police.

Churchgoers wrestled the gunman to the ground as he waved a knife, slashing himself and two other people, Mr. Trent said.

None of the 150-or-so congregants seemed to recognize the gunman. Investigators do not know details of Mr. Winters’s conversation with him but plan to review an audio recording of the service, Mr. Trent said. The service was not videotaped.

The police said Mr. Winters deflected the first of the gunman’s four rounds with a Bible, sending a confetti-like spray of paper into the air.

I see your point but at the same time, when I read the article I saw nothing about people being poor. Maybe you made that jump all on your own.

As for truth, it’s a bit too early in the morning for me to dive into that debate.

Have a good week, Danny. Didn’t you know orange is the new black? Or is that so last season?

My problem with the humor that was written is that it’s a class attack and though I agree that most the armed folks in the States will shoot the wrong people when “revolution” arrives, I don’t have a problem with the notion of gun ownership—I just wish the guys in love with the second amendment would study the other amendments and the ones who are against it (or interpret it in their own manner) would study the 14th amendment.

I truley hope you have a wonderful week
Danny the chimp

P.S. the orange jumpsuit wont work, I am not an autumn person.

Cato was indulging in typical either/or thinking. One must have all three–mind, body and spirit, working together in harmony.

You’re entitled to your own opinions, of course. I found a lot wrong with your initial comment. As you know, I don’t agree with most of what you write here just as I don’t agree with anyone who has such a one sided view of America or believes it to be soulless or any fool who denies gas chambers or who argues endlessly over how many Jews were actually killed. In the end they are all just opinions which really aren’t worth much of anything.

Search for the truth all you want but there is no one truth and all truths rest on shifting sands. Search for yourself instead.

You have a good heart, Danny Ray. But I think you are misguided. I’m sure you think the same of me. Have a good night.

Of course I am searching all people should search for the truth.

If you are ruled by mind you are a king; if by body, a slave.
Cato, Roman statesman and historian

The slavery I am thinking is the slavery of the body, A slave with freedom in his heart ,tree, is still a slave.

And I know that you will be unhappy I said this but ”Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally. Abraham Lincoln (1809 – 1865) ”

and it is better to die on ones feet than live on ones knees.

I was just trying to let that guy know what to expect here.

and I defy you to say that I was wrong. most here hate America, most hate the concept and disavow God. All here believe that the past eight years have been about greed and empire. so where was I wrong?

Danny Ray, are you even aware of your own split opinions? You write there is a just and loving god and back this up by pointing out evil in this world.
You claim to side against the evil but this is a false ideal. Evil is not this entity separate from humanity; it is part and parcel of the human experience and you won’t eradicate it with guns.
You defend your beloved military then write you don’t trust your government. Can’t you see how it’s all connected?

Also, you proclaim all these beliefs where? On a Web site devoted to the opposite views. I think you are searching.

A gun is not anything like a hammer. The sole purpose of a gun is to kill the living. End of story.

You justify your actions and the actions of the military by describing the horrible things you’ve seen. I don’t know what I’d do if I saw a woman dragged down the street like that. I would suppose at some point I’d want to grab a gun and start shooting but I hope I wouldn’t.

The fact is, your military will not stop men from dragging women down the street and killing them. It may suppress that hatred and ignorance for a while but it will only come back because military might does not get to the root cause of these things and solve them.

One thing I’ve noticed about you is that often your comments are a way to share the terrible things you’ve witnessed. I’m sure you have thought a lot about all that you’ve seen but you haven’t thought far enough or long enough and maybe that’s ok because maybe you’re in a lot of pain right now.
I am sorry that you’ve had to see those things and I do hope that you won’t think any more about them tonight but give yourself a reprieve.
Maybe you need to find some peace within yourself to better understand these things.

I know you fired on me due to the fact that you care about me as a person. And I love you for that. As for giving me too much credit, I suspect that you have. Believe me I have given it much more thought that you could imagin and the answer still keeps coming up with is on the right side of the fence.

I firmly believe that freedon is not free, there are people who would take it from you in a heart beat.

I believe firmly in a Just and loving God. if for no other reason that I have seen the evil in the world and chose to side againced it.

I saw both Iraq and Afganistan before the invasions, I saw a girl drug down the street to her dath ue to the fact that she had been caught with a boy.

I saw the torture room in Iraq, you guys complain about Abu Garib it was nothing compared to the previous owners actions there. I could tell you what went on but It is sunday night at diner time and I don’t want t think about it.

AS for guns I am a gun nut. I have several of them , Tree they are just and inaminate objects neither good or bad, sort of like a hammer.
I do not trust the goverment and am prepared to take the feild as needed. that is my right as an American.

Now Tree I have one question for you. why do you give me a broadside and let that stupid fuck Gideon slide?

I can certainly understand your need to believe what’s going on in Iraq and Afghanistan is of pure and good intentions but this is delusion. Part of the purpose of this delusion is to ensure the cannon fodder go willingly to their slaughter, or at the very least figure out only until it’s much too late that it’s all a bunch of lies. Another part is to make those at home feel not guilty about any of it. However, it’s all bullshit, Danny Ray. All lies. I hope someday you can face that. I tend to think you will eventually but maybe I’m giving you too much credit. But, we all have to face harsh truths from time to time, it’s part of being human.

Not being cheeky, just trying to warn an average American away from you leftist rascals. I did not want your guys to fire on him.

Truth is stranger than fiction though. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7931502.stm