Comments on: When Science Fiction Meets Marxism http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:07:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Christos Kefalis http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39496 Christos Kefalis Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:39:28 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39496 First of all, I would like to thank all people who contributed their comments. Especially Eric is right in pointing my mistake of putting "Exterminator" in place of "Terminator". This is definitely the kind of mistake that makes one feel embarrassed! Well, the Greek title of the movie is Ex-olothreftis (from the ancient olethros, i.e., vanishing or anihilation), i.e. precisely ex-terminator. A long time having passed since I last saw it, I retranslated it directly from Greek to English... It is rather difficult to comment on all observations made. Of course, I cannot agree with Ark's view that "They Live" is anti-Marxist and that monopolies created Marxism. As a matter of fact Marxism was made possible and appeared during the reign of free competition, when the proletariat had matured enough to be able to produce this kind of outlook in a part of the intelligentsia. Both Marx and Engels had completed their work at 1890, before monopolies appeared or just when they began to appear. Moreover, views like "Carpenter is not so stupid to believe in Marxism" leave very little room for positive argument. Ark's view in his other post, that Carpenter's view is "Monopoly vs Government by the People", I find much more serious and debatable. However, monopoly is a development of capitalism and government by the people a prerequisite of socialism. So, the two things, Capitalism vs Socialism and Monopoly vs Government by the People, hardly contradict each other. View it this way, if you wish, the meaning remains roughly the same. With regard to Carpenter I would say that he is talented but unequal. He can produce a great movie like "They live", but he can also produce some mediocre things. However as a whole he is admirable for his independence and has a certain right to greatness. Speaking about Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, they were mystics and reactionary in their political views but cannot be entirely dismissed as thinkers. For example, Ouspensky to a large extent predicted in his works modern ideas about many dimensions of space-time. And, moreover, it is one thing if Gurdjeff says that people live in sleep in general, because they are by nature inferior to the aristocratic few, etc., and another one if Carpenter connects this with a social reality. So, the matter is not if he takes something from Gurdjieff, but how he interprets it. The Marxist tendency of “They Live” can, in my opinion, be most clearly seen not only in the clear presentation of the conflict between the workers and the ruling class (embodied in the aliens), but also in the fact that this conflict is presented as impossible to be reconciled or solved in any other way eccept by overthrowing the oppressors. This differentiates it from other movies like e.g. “Gremlins 2”, where the boss is in fact a good guy and in the end fights the evil (which is the product of the system he heads). But I did not attempt such a comparison, which would further clarify the meaning. Finally, I will say that movies like Superman, Terminator, etc, are not so nakedly apologetic as a Rambo, but their heroes embody in a subtle way the spirit of Americanism (we are superior to the rest of the world, which is represented as a threat, finally stemming from communism). As for the rest, it is clear that the dangers facing the whole of humanity are great, be it the imminent economic collapse or the greenhouse effect. It is also true that the present deep economic crisis, together with the stupidities of the Bush administration in Iraq and the rest of the world, destabilize capitalism and make for the first time a fruitful oppositional movement possible. However, while the time to act is now, I would add that clever action is needed and results will not come in one or two days. And, of course, one should not expect any kind of fruitful action by Obama and those now in charge… First of all, I would like to thank all people who contributed their comments. Especially Eric is right in pointing my mistake of putting “Exterminator” in place of “Terminator”. This is definitely the kind of mistake that makes one feel embarrassed! Well, the Greek title of the movie is Ex-olothreftis (from the ancient olethros, i.e., vanishing or anihilation), i.e. precisely ex-terminator. A long time having passed since I last saw it, I retranslated it directly from Greek to English…
It is rather difficult to comment on all observations made.
Of course, I cannot agree with Ark’s view that “They Live” is anti-Marxist and that monopolies created Marxism. As a matter of fact Marxism was made possible and appeared during the reign of free competition, when the proletariat had matured enough to be able to produce this kind of outlook in a part of the intelligentsia. Both Marx and Engels had completed their work at 1890, before monopolies appeared or just when they began to appear.
Moreover, views like “Carpenter is not so stupid to believe in Marxism” leave very little room for positive argument. Ark’s view in his other post, that Carpenter’s view is “Monopoly vs Government by the People”, I find much more serious and debatable. However, monopoly is a development of capitalism and government by the people a prerequisite of socialism. So, the two things, Capitalism vs Socialism and Monopoly vs Government by the People, hardly contradict each other. View it this way, if you wish, the meaning remains roughly the same.
With regard to Carpenter I would say that he is talented but unequal. He can produce a great movie like “They live”, but he can also produce some mediocre things. However as a whole he is admirable for his independence and has a certain right to greatness.
Speaking about Gurdjieff and Ouspensky, they were mystics and reactionary in their political views but cannot be entirely dismissed as thinkers. For example, Ouspensky to a large extent predicted in his works modern ideas about many dimensions of space-time. And, moreover, it is one thing if Gurdjeff says that people live in sleep in general, because they are by nature inferior to the aristocratic few, etc., and another one if Carpenter connects this with a social reality. So, the matter is not if he takes something from Gurdjieff, but how he interprets it.
The Marxist tendency of “They Live” can, in my opinion, be most clearly seen not only in the clear presentation of the conflict between the workers and the ruling class (embodied in the aliens), but also in the fact that this conflict is presented as impossible to be reconciled or solved in any other way eccept by overthrowing the oppressors. This differentiates it from other movies like e.g. “Gremlins 2”, where the boss is in fact a good guy and in the end fights the evil (which is the product of the system he heads). But I did not attempt such a comparison, which would further clarify the meaning. Finally, I will say that movies like Superman, Terminator, etc, are not so nakedly apologetic as a Rambo, but their heroes embody in a subtle way the spirit of Americanism (we are superior to the rest of the world, which is represented as a threat, finally stemming from communism).
As for the rest, it is clear that the dangers facing the whole of humanity are great, be it the imminent economic collapse or the greenhouse effect. It is also true that the present deep economic crisis, together with the stupidities of the Bush administration in Iraq and the rest of the world, destabilize capitalism and make for the first time a fruitful oppositional movement possible. However, while the time to act is now, I would add that clever action is needed and results will not come in one or two days. And, of course, one should not expect any kind of fruitful action by Obama and those now in charge…

]]> By: Michael Dawson http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39400 Michael Dawson Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:02:58 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39400 Hey, Ark, tell us why all Marxism advocates total monopolization, other than in your fevered brain? Hey, Ark, tell us why all Marxism advocates total monopolization, other than in your fevered brain?

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39376 Don Hawkins Mon, 23 Feb 2009 01:58:29 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39376 Many are trying to continue killing the truth’s in the twenty first century and this time the lies that are immortal brings us to the truth’s. We need to use the truth and the knowledge and soon. Many are trying to continue killing the truth’s in the twenty first century and this time the lies that are immortal brings us to the truth’s. We need to use the truth and the knowledge and soon.

]]> By: Deadbeat http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39361 Deadbeat Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:59:56 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39361 Don, Those were some of the best posting I've seen in a long while. thx Don,

Those were some of the best posting I’ve seen in a long while.

thx

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39357 Don Hawkins Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:13:07 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39357 CAPE TOWN, South Africa (AP) — If we don't deal with climate change decisively, "what we're talking about then is extended world war," the eminent economist said. His audience Saturday, small and elite, had been stranded here by bad weather and were talking climate. They couldn't do much about the one, but the other was squarely in their hands. And so, Lord Nicholas Stern was telling them, was the potential for mass migrations setting off mass conflict. "Somehow we have to explain to people just how worrying that is," the British economic thinker said. Stern, author of a major British government report detailing the cost of climate change, was one of a select group of two dozen — environment ministers, climate negotiators and experts from 16 nations — scheduled to fly to Antarctica to learn firsthand how global warming might melt its ice into the sea, raising ocean levels worldwide. If the world's nations act responsibly, Stern said, they will achieve "zero-carbon" electricity production and zero-carbon road transport by 2050 — by replacing coal power plants with wind, solar or other energy sources that emit no carbon dioxide, and fossil fuel-burning vehicles with cars running on electric or other "clean" energy. Then warming could be contained to a 2-degree-Celsius (3.4-degree-Fahrenheit) rise this century, he said. But if negotiators falter, if emissions reductions are not made soon and deep, the severe climate shifts and sea-level rises projected by scientists would be "disastrous." It would "transform where people can live," Stern said. "People would move on a massive scale. Hundreds of millions, probably billions of people would have to move if you talk about 4-, 5-, 6-degree increases" — 7 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit. And that would mean extended global conflict, "because there's no way the world can handle that kind of population move in the time period in which it would take place." Is Stern right on this unfortunately he is. The time is now. Think of this as kind of a war and put those boots on people. I have an old pair with a few miles left in them. Tired of lies, corruption, nonsense, one side fighting the other on plans being made for nobody? Tuff times ahead but can be done. CAPE TOWN, South Africa (AP) — If we don’t deal with climate change decisively, “what we’re talking about then is extended world war,” the eminent economist said.

His audience Saturday, small and elite, had been stranded here by bad weather and were talking climate. They couldn’t do much about the one, but the other was squarely in their hands. And so, Lord Nicholas Stern was telling them, was the potential for mass migrations setting off mass conflict.

“Somehow we have to explain to people just how worrying that is,” the British economic thinker said.

Stern, author of a major British government report detailing the cost of climate change, was one of a select group of two dozen — environment ministers, climate negotiators and experts from 16 nations — scheduled to fly to Antarctica to learn firsthand how global warming might melt its ice into the sea, raising ocean levels worldwide.

If the world’s nations act responsibly, Stern said, they will achieve “zero-carbon” electricity production and zero-carbon road transport by 2050 — by replacing coal power plants with wind, solar or other energy sources that emit no carbon dioxide, and fossil fuel-burning vehicles with cars running on electric or other “clean” energy.

Then warming could be contained to a 2-degree-Celsius (3.4-degree-Fahrenheit) rise this century, he said.

But if negotiators falter, if emissions reductions are not made soon and deep, the severe climate shifts and sea-level rises projected by scientists would be “disastrous.”

It would “transform where people can live,” Stern said. “People would move on a massive scale. Hundreds of millions, probably billions of people would have to move if you talk about 4-, 5-, 6-degree increases” — 7 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit. And that would mean extended global conflict, “because there’s no way the world can handle that kind of population move in the time period in which it would take place.”

Is Stern right on this unfortunately he is. The time is now. Think of this as kind of a war and put those boots on people. I have an old pair with a few miles left in them. Tired of lies, corruption, nonsense, one side fighting the other on plans being made for nobody? Tuff times ahead but can be done.

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39353 Don Hawkins Sun, 22 Feb 2009 20:52:13 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39353 "A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on." Twain The time is now and we need to get our boots on. The problems we face are big and they are real. The so called leaders are lying to themselves and us. There is still time we must act now. Two million to start at the Capital one voice face the problems the time is now. “A lie is halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on.” Twain

The time is now and we need to get our boots on. The problems we face are big and they are real. The so called leaders are lying to themselves and us. There is still time we must act now. Two million to start at the Capital one voice face the problems the time is now.

]]> By: ceti http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39291 ceti Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:59:57 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39291 "They Live!" is great. I wanted to see it so badly when its premise was reviewed in the local paper. It has some great radical monologues. Having Roddy Piper as the working class everyman hero also elevated professional wrestling in my eyes. However, the subtext to a lot of science fiction movies are also as radical. Schwarzenegger's sci-fi films of the 80s -- Terminator, Running Man, Total Recall -- all had radical subtexts. And even if Robocop III was a crappy movie, it did present urban guerillas as the heroes, and Robocop going against his corporate programming to join them against the hired Blackwater-type OCP mercenaries who were cleansing Detroit before the corporate-controlled Delta City was to be built. Even a Vin Diesel vehicle like Chronicles of Riddick had an interesting premise. The Helios System, the energy heart of the human galaxy, was a Liberal Muslim democracy before the necromonger fanatics (with their inverted Christian religion) invaded, complete with a light show reminiscent of the bombardment of Baghdad. And while it's hard to see it, even a straight shoot 'em action film like Starship Troopers had some interesting satire on militarism and war propaganda. “They Live!” is great. I wanted to see it so badly when its premise was reviewed in the local paper. It has some great radical monologues. Having Roddy Piper as the working class everyman hero also elevated professional wrestling in my eyes.

However, the subtext to a lot of science fiction movies are also as radical. Schwarzenegger’s sci-fi films of the 80s — Terminator, Running Man, Total Recall — all had radical subtexts. And even if Robocop III was a crappy movie, it did present urban guerillas as the heroes, and Robocop going against his corporate programming to join them against the hired Blackwater-type OCP mercenaries who were cleansing Detroit before the corporate-controlled Delta City was to be built.

Even a Vin Diesel vehicle like Chronicles of Riddick had an interesting premise. The Helios System, the energy heart of the human galaxy, was a Liberal Muslim democracy before the necromonger fanatics (with their inverted Christian religion) invaded, complete with a light show reminiscent of the bombardment of Baghdad. And while it’s hard to see it, even a straight shoot ‘em action film like Starship Troopers had some interesting satire on militarism and war propaganda.

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39289 Don Hawkins Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:51:38 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39289 Russia has a surplus nobody has a surplus it's all debt. Democracy is it a system of government where each person has equal representation within the government? Right now in the United States well how about just States do we have democracy. We have corruption and money talks and tells us who we vote for in most cases. The system is somewhat out of hand haven't you noticed? We need to change the economic system and that means democracy. There is very tuff times ahead and only harder in the coming years unless we can work together and try and solve the problems we face. Just as they are doing now the people who want to hold on to the system are saying Obama's policy's are not working and will not work we need to give the money to the rich, what. In the coming years even if we could change the system tuff times and then what do we hear same thing. Bit of a problem don't you think. Russia has a surplus nobody has a surplus it’s all debt. Democracy is it a system of government where each person has equal representation within the government? Right now in the United States well how about just States do we have democracy. We have corruption and money talks and tells us who we vote for in most cases. The system is somewhat out of hand haven’t you noticed? We need to change the economic system and that means democracy. There is very tuff times ahead and only harder in the coming years unless we can work together and try and solve the problems we face. Just as they are doing now the people who want to hold on to the system are saying Obama’s policy’s are not working and will not work we need to give the money to the rich, what. In the coming years even if we could change the system tuff times and then what do we hear same thing. Bit of a problem don’t you think.

]]> By: Ark http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39283 Ark Sat, 21 Feb 2009 22:41:32 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39283 It's not Socialism vs Capitalism, its Monopoly vs Government by the People. The people got the new deal and it was good. Then the politicians dismantled the New Deal and enslaved the people. What to do? Return Glass-Steagall, return anti-usury laws, ban derivatives, ban lobbying ... it's legalized bribery for crying out loud. But first and foremost - keep the constitution. There is your manifesto. If you can't do that, what makes you think you'll do socialism better? The Soviet Union was the richest country in the world when it comes to natural resources. They ended socialism in debt to their necks. 20 years without Schmocialism and they have $500 Billion is surplus. It’s not Socialism vs Capitalism, its Monopoly vs Government by the People. The people got the new deal and it was good. Then the politicians dismantled the New Deal and enslaved the people. What to do?
Return Glass-Steagall, return anti-usury laws, ban derivatives, ban lobbying … it’s legalized bribery for crying out loud. But first and foremost – keep the constitution. There is your manifesto. If you can’t do that, what makes you think you’ll do socialism better? The Soviet Union was the richest country in the world when it comes to natural resources. They ended socialism in debt to their necks. 20 years without Schmocialism and they have $500 Billion is surplus.

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39277 Don Hawkins Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:39:13 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39277 The Old Coffee Shop. The coffee shop again this day was full and everyone was waiting on a new thing the coffee shop was to offer. The new thing was unite and organize for the coming years. Different speakers on how to do this and today an old man in the corner table was about to speak on the State of the union and Capitalism and Socialism and a little Atlas Shrugged just for the hell of it. He started talking form the table he was at as he was old and stayed seated. "People of Earth", this got a good laugh, "We are all in big trouble people and waiting on government to make the changes we need is probably not the best approach. The cities and States are starting to fall apart well fall apart to a point where now most people can see it. This has been happening for years now but kind of covered over by something I like to call the Matrix. What is that well a system run by so called elite's and people who want to be elite's you know want a be's a system that keep's us the other 99% in slavery not only with what we need to pay these people in coin but what they are doing to our minds and are kid's mind's. Of course this has been going on for many years but reached new heights in the twenty first century. It is time to unite and organize. We now see the results of this system in living color sort of as they are still trying to hide it from your eye's and not doing a very good job of that. We need to take care of each other and build the World we know can happen if we try. Those of you who have lost your house we are starting a list and those of you who have just lost your job a list remember strength in numbers and those who still have a house can put up tents on your property for those who don't. Yes I said tents. We are trying to get two million to start for a little meeting in Washington DC to see if we can wake up our policy makers to face reality and let them know the system must change. Capitalism has got us to this point and to try and bring it back to normal is called insanity. The system in simple terms is an economic system based on private ownership of capital and the last time I checked 1% of the population control most of that capital and doing a lousy job of that. The other system Socialism let me read this from the socialists labor party of America. Under socialism the factories and industries would be used to benefit all of us, not restricted to the creation of profits for the enrichment of a small group of capitalist owners. Under socialism our farmlands would yield an abundance without great toil; the factories, mines and mills would be the safest, the most modern, the most efficient possible and productive beyond our wildest dreams—and without laborious work. Our natural resources would be intelligently conserved. Our schools would have the finest facilities and they would be devoted to developing complete human beings, not wages slaves who are trained to hire themselves out for someone else’s profit. Our hospitals and social services would create and maintain the finest health and recreational facilities. Socialist Labor Party of America "Now is this true I sure hope so because on this present path of capitalism our resources are not intelligently conserved how can they be and with climate change added to the mix unless we can change this system and the minds of the people who want to bring capitalism back to it's glory that will mean the destruction of human civilization and send my kid's and there kid's into the darkside and this will not work out to well the story doesn't have a happy ending. These so called elite's want us to go along with them and go into the darkside so they can go out in style sort of and I say fight back think of this as kind of a war and with that innkeeper a cup of coffee black and make it strong. Read DV Barrack? Oh one more thing if these 1% don't like this idea they can have the entire State of Colorado and probably barb wire it in and fight over who get's what and controls the State and we will call it money Island an old and very good book and before they get there we could put cameras on every corner and make it into a reality show. We could call it The Old Way Of Thinking and see who becomes King and how well they do without us the 99%". The Old Coffee Shop.

The coffee shop again this day was full and everyone was waiting on a new thing the coffee shop was to offer. The new thing was unite and organize for the coming years. Different speakers on how to do this and today an old man in the corner table was about to speak on the State of the union and Capitalism and Socialism and a little Atlas Shrugged just for the hell of it. He started talking form the table he was at as he was old and stayed seated. “People of Earth”, this got a good laugh, “We are all in big trouble people and waiting on government to make the changes we need is probably not the best approach. The cities and States are starting to fall apart well fall apart to a point where now most people can see it. This has been happening for years now but kind of covered over by something I like to call the Matrix. What is that well a system run by so called elite’s and people who want to be elite’s you know want a be’s a system that keep’s us the other 99% in slavery not only with what we need to pay these people in coin but what they are doing to our minds and are kid’s mind’s. Of course this has been going on for many years but reached new heights in the twenty first century. It is time to unite and organize. We now see the results of this system in living color sort of as they are still trying to hide it from your eye’s and not doing a very good job of that. We need to take care of each other and build the World we know can happen if we try. Those of you who have lost your house we are starting a list and those of you who have just lost your job a list remember strength in numbers and those who still have a house can put up tents on your property for those who don’t. Yes I said tents. We are trying to get two million to start for a little meeting in Washington DC to see if we can wake up our policy makers to face reality and let them know the system must change. Capitalism has got us to this point and to try and bring it back to normal is called insanity. The system in simple terms is an economic system based on private ownership of capital and the last time I checked 1% of the population control most of that capital and doing a lousy job of that. The other system Socialism let me read this from the socialists labor party of America.

Under socialism the factories and industries would be used to benefit all of us, not restricted to the creation of profits for the enrichment of a small group of capitalist owners. Under socialism our farmlands would yield an abundance without great toil; the factories, mines and mills would be the safest, the most modern, the most efficient possible and productive beyond our wildest dreams—and without laborious work. Our natural resources would be intelligently conserved. Our schools would have the finest facilities and they would be devoted to developing complete human beings, not wages slaves who are trained to hire themselves out for someone else’s profit. Our hospitals and social services would create and maintain the finest health and recreational facilities. Socialist Labor Party of America

“Now is this true I sure hope so because on this present path of capitalism our resources are not intelligently conserved how can they be and with climate change added to the mix unless we can change this system and the minds of the people who want to bring capitalism back to it’s glory that will mean the destruction of human civilization and send my kid’s and there kid’s into the darkside and this will not work out to well the story doesn’t have a happy ending. These so called elite’s want us to go along with them and go into the darkside so they can go out in style sort of and I say fight back think of this as kind of a war and with that innkeeper a cup of coffee black and make it strong. Read DV Barrack? Oh one more thing if these 1% don’t like this idea they can have the entire State of Colorado and probably barb wire it in and fight over who get’s what and controls the State and we will call it money Island an old and very good book and before they get there we could put cameras on every corner and make it into a reality show. We could call it The Old Way Of Thinking and see who becomes King and how well they do without us the 99%”.

]]> By: Tree http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39243 Tree Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:56:36 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39243 I seriously question the idea that Carpenter is a talented movie director. They Live is an all around bad movie that covers important ideas, whether by accident or not. Although, the "all out of bubble gum" speech is a hoot. As an aside, anyone familiar with the teachings of Gurdjieff will see his ideas in quite a few films, one example being Dark City which is a much better representation of how things are than They Live. I seriously question the idea that Carpenter is a talented movie director.
They Live is an all around bad movie that covers important ideas, whether by accident or not. Although, the “all out of bubble gum” speech is a hoot.

As an aside, anyone familiar with the teachings of Gurdjieff will see his ideas in quite a few films, one example being Dark City which is a much better representation of how things are than They Live.

]]> By: Eric Patton http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39242 Eric Patton Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:45:36 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39242 For the record, "The Terminator" and "The Exterminator" are actually DIFFERENT movies. The former is a famous trilogy (and now TV series), while the latter is a little-known "Death Wish" ripoff starring Robert Ginty. For the record, “The Terminator” and “The Exterminator” are actually DIFFERENT movies. The former is a famous trilogy (and now TV series), while the latter is a little-known “Death Wish” ripoff starring Robert Ginty.

]]> By: robert1014 http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39241 robert1014 Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:40:53 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39241 I saw THEY LIVE when it first came out in the 80s, and I have always loved it and thought it a powerful depiction of the reality of America. Of course it has become even more pertinent as time as passed, with the difference that the monsters today barely bother to disguise themselves. I did always think the protracted fight between Nada and Frank was too long and should have been edited, but I will reconsider it in light of your critique. I do wish Carpenter had had a better budget for the film, but he managed with meager means and a sharp script to produce a stinging "satire" of "America that is barely satire at all, but virtually a documentary of America's state. I saw THEY LIVE when it first came out in the 80s, and I have always loved it and thought it a powerful depiction of the reality of America. Of course it has become even more pertinent as time as passed, with the difference that the monsters today barely bother to disguise themselves. I did always think the protracted fight between Nada and Frank was too long and should have been edited, but I will reconsider it in light of your critique. I do wish Carpenter had had a better budget for the film, but he managed with meager means and a sharp script to produce a stinging “satire” of “America that is barely satire at all, but virtually a documentary of America’s state.

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39240 Don Hawkins Sat, 21 Feb 2009 17:39:48 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39240 Snap it on plug it in Check it out Send it on Snap it on plug it in Check it out Send it on Snap it on plug it in Check it out Send it on Then someone yell's, "snap out of it", and the next voice you hear is, "who said that"? As two people take Mr. Smith off to retraining he is still yelling, "snap out of it, snap out of it". Snap it on
plug it in
Check it out
Send it on

Snap it on
plug it in
Check it out
Send it on

Snap it on
plug it in
Check it out
Send it on

Then someone yell’s, “snap out of it”, and the next voice you hear is, “who said that”? As two people take Mr. Smith off to retraining he is still yelling, “snap out of it, snap out of it”.

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39232 Don Hawkins Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:47:09 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39232 Well done I put this under favorities to read again to think man think. Well done I put this under favorities to read again to think man think.

]]> By: Ark http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/when-science-fiction-meets-marxism/#comment-39228 Ark Sat, 21 Feb 2009 16:27:32 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6840#comment-39228 The movie is actually anti-Marxist. The aliens could be either the "Communist Party" or the "Monopoly Money". By the way, the Monopoly created Marx and the Parties. That's why Marxism itself advocates total monopolization - it is just a tool to achieve the same goal. There is no Marxism in this movie whatsoever, indeed the author of the movie is too smart to believe in Marxism. The movie is actually anti-Marxist. The aliens could be either the “Communist Party” or the “Monopoly Money”. By the way, the Monopoly created Marx and the Parties. That’s why Marxism itself advocates total monopolization – it is just a tool to achieve the same goal.
There is no Marxism in this movie whatsoever, indeed the author of the movie is too smart to believe in Marxism.

]]>