I enjoyed your article, thank-you very much.

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Aaron G. and deadbeat,

tough exchanges gentlemen, and strong points made on each side. Good stuff for the most part.

As Aaron points out, the system is the problem…well actually half of the problem. Correct, we should settle for no less than 100% in any vision that advocates peace and prosperity…which is what we’re all after, right?

But the system itself is utterly fragmented because it is composed of fragmented people; fragmented by nationalism, by left and right, by religion, beliefs, relational expectations, education, etc. True deadbeat, that vision needs to be received across the board with solidarity, but that will only happen when people become whole individuals, when they realize the importance of the parts and the connection thereof to the structure in its entirety.

This is where it comes down to the micro level; 6.7 billion people each carrying out their own inner revolutions in Krishnamurti fashion, for the benefit of the parts and the whole. We don’t need solidarity if we don’t have conflict, and we won’t have conflict if we have no division, and we’ll have no division if we are whole — at both micro and macro levels.

Easier said than done it is, but it’s a transformation that will have to take place if we are to attain any sense of balance/harmony. Mankind’s present level of primal consciousness has to be transcended in order to reach a day when we won’t expect to see a 100% reduction in US military spending because there will be no US, or Israel, or China, or anywhere else for that matter. Borders which can’t be seen from Aaron’s lunar perspective will no longer need to exist because there will be no politics (which is simply the most corrupt of all businesses) and there will be no economy on which greed could feed. We won’t be divided by a handful of religions that claim to hold the key to the stairway to heaven in their one almighty God because we’ll realize that God is within each of us and everywhere around us in nature.

The system that once distracted mankind from that which is truly important — inner wholeness and nosce te ipsum — will no longer exist, because we’ll all be responsible for ourselves and our actions, because we’ll want to see that all the parts are strong and healthy, that everyone’s needs are met, that there is no suffering, because it’s all unnecessary and falling far short of our potential as intelligent beings.

Just a thought, I may be wrong.

Best to all.

“Here’s the question: would the United States be denouncing those Jews in Gaza as “terrorists” and encouraging the Palestinian state to use overwhelming force against them?

“Here’s another: would the United States have even allowed such a situation to arise and persist in the first place?”

As Leftist, I think, our position is to support movements that do challenge the system. For example today’s killing of the young African American brother Oscar Grant exposes the true nature of the police. It is unfortunate that Mr. G’s see the Civil Right movement as only a “lunch counter” experience. The Civil Rights movement was also a militant movement it wasn’t about signing “We Shall Overcome” it was also about “Black Power” and it was also about educating the Black community about the evil of Capitalism and it was about solidarity with national movement throughout the world, including the Palestinian struggle. In other words it WAS EXACTLY about what Mr. G profess. The Civil Right movement also help to expand the Anti-War movements and both the Woman and Gay Right Movement. Apparently Mr. G is not reading history correctly in order to advance his myopic analysis.

The real question to ask is WHY IS THE LEFT FRAGMENTED. Another way to ask this same question is why is their little solidarity on the Left. There is little solidarity for the same reason that the ruler keep all people divided: Race (white supremacy and Zionism) and class privileges. Therefore it is incumbent upon the Left to support what Mr. G refers to the “MICRO” action. The reason is that the Left should be in the position to assist these micro action into becoming a “macro” movement. Unfortunately there are many on the Left who agenda is to THWART that from ever happening. Such “Lefties” such as Noam Chomsky is one that comes to mind. Therefore it is incumbent of the Left to EXPOSE and to PURGE the so-called “intellectual” who agenda is to promote confusion among activists.

The problem with Mr. G’s perspective it that it is unrealistic because in order to have a “macro” upset of the system you have to get everyone on the same page. And that begins with the “micro”. This is why socialist for years has advocated for a Labor Party to help coalesce these “micro” activities under one umbrella. Some has referred to this idea as “democratic centralism”.

While Mr. G is aware that the Left is not on the same page unfortunately he seems to express no interest as to the WHY the Left is so disjointed.

Let’s start at the top before we get into specifics. My whole argument above is dependent on one’s viewpoint of the world – it’s best understood by taking a few (thousand) steps back and taking a MACRO view of the planet. Currently, from my viewpoint on the moon, I see an overwhelming victory to those that hate peace and the earth’s environment – the reasons are varied and sometimes complex. And if I look hard, I also see excellent self-sacrificing individuals and organisations that are easing the pain of suffering humans in a practical way. However, I see this second group of peace-loving people hardly scraping the surface of ”the system” as far as lasting results are concerned. This does not belittle their work, it is just an observation. 1,000 hours of activism could be undone with one signature in Congress, Parliament, UN, IMF or World Bank. The activism annoys the elite like a mosquito (”what, I’ve now got to pay you more than 13 cents an hour!!??”) but it does not defeat them.It seems to me that every ”victory” of the people (like the examples you quoted above) is soon squashed by 10 ”defeats” by the elite. One example that comes to mind is ”hooray, we ended apartheid in South Africa”. Great, but while the champagne was still bubbling a group of white-owned corporations and economists shafted the country again, before the enslaved people even got off the canvas. While we are typing away on this website, sprouting our academic viewpoints, I’m sure the Zionists in AIPAC, the oilmen, the military, the disaster capitalist economists etc etc etc are meeting, networking, planning, funding AND TAKING ACTION for the next war/disaster/propaganda. It is this organised evil that is simply swamping the rest of the world. So much so that the rest of us would be happy, to quote the Green Ferret above, for ”President Obama to cut military spending at least 70%”. Excellent goal Green Ferret, but why would someone be content to live on a planet that allows the US to spend even 30% of their already massive military budget. Or any other country for that matter. My macro argument is 0% miltary spending. My kids and the Palestinian’s kids deserve nothing less.

Let’s talk on a MICRO level. You raised some very good examples of people’s ”victories”. At the time, and from the standpoint of the people that fought (and died) for these causes, they were very big victories that made some people’s lives better off. But they weren’t total victories and that’s my point. Let’s consider each example:

Blacks/slavery/Jim Crow – I don’t have dark skin so I don’t know what its like to suffer from institutionalised racism and genocide. Your point is correct that a small group of people, mainly vocal in the US, challenged the system. However, it only challenged an infinitesimal segment of the system. Using Green Ferret’s analogy again, I’m not content that some people in America can now travel on a bus, wash their hands and toilet with light skinned people and even become their president. I would consider those ”priveleges” a minimum basic human right, regardless of something as petty as skin colour. What about a starving kid in Niger or Haiti, or a family running for their lives in Congo in the middle of the coltan rush, or a black resident of an American city or jail? Are they still part of the system? Did the 60’s forget about them? ”MLK and the whole Civil Rights movement” may not have been as whole as these people desire.

Womens Rights – Similar to the above, ask women all over the world how their life is going and, depending on the location, you might find that many are still struggling.

In summary, I agree with you Deadbeat that there are many examples of people challenging (part of) the system. I’m only asking you to widen your vision and not accept anything less than 100%. Peace is not just a lack of guns firing. It is the total dismantling of the whole system – not 70% of it, not even 99% of it, but 100%. We are using hand extinguishers to fight those that just keep stoking the fire. And I think the elite don’t mind when we run off to the side fighting little battles – at least it keeps us busy and out of their way. I don’t care if you’re a Blackwater subcontractor or a Lockheed Martin factory worker and you lose your job cos of peace – learn how to bake bread or somethin! Like I said in my original posting, the economic, political and religious systems of rulership that currently plague our world need to be dismantled.

On the Right I see solutions and action, even though they are dispicable. On the Left I see fragmentation……….

I know you care very much about the people of Sderotwhoa re in harms way… So let me ask you this…. If they themselves could understand the situation and seek peace….. Why can’t you?

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3646184,00.html

“SDEROT AND GAZA RESIDENTS CALL FOR RENEWAL OF PEACE”

“Arik Yalin, 43, from Sderot told Ynet that over 1,800 Israelis and Palestinians have already joined the petition. “About a month ago we realized that the situation was about to deteriorate into total chaos,” he explained.

“It’s important for us to voice an opinion that represents quite a few residents who live within the rocket range but who believe that we can, and should try to resolve this ongoing conflict in a peaceful manner.”

“Some 1,800 Israelis and Palestinians, including 500 Sderot residents, sign petition calling for end to IDF operation in Gaza, renewal of dialogue between Israel, Hamas”

Stop killing these brave voices!

That should read…

In other words you are suggesting that one should not even be taking about Israeli oppression because it is about the “Zionist agenda” rather than about “the system”?

Like all human problems, the Palestine problem is systemic. Don’t focus on the Hamas rockets like a CNN junkie – this isn’t the problem. Don’t even focus on the Israeli army with their American-supplied helicopter gunships….or the Americans in the background salivating over the oil……or the Zionist agenda if Deadbeat is reading……or whatever little issue we like to focus on – all these issues aren’t the real problem but just consequences of it (although they do keep us so busy that we lose focus on the real problem). No one wants to face up to the real problem, which is our SYSTEM of rulership – economic, religious, political. Don’t even get me out of bed with any band-aid solution that falls short of wiping out these three blights on mankind.

Are you suggesting that Zionism is not “systemic” and that exposing efforts by those especially on the “Left” using their intellectual cache to obscure and to camouflage Zionism’s influence within the political economy is not challenging the system?

Are you saying that the struggle against the lynching of Blacks, slavery, and Jim Crow was not challenging the system?

Are you saying that the Women suffrage and Women rights movement was not challenging the system?

Are you suggesting that in order to challenge the system that you must remain inert until you speak in a narrative that is 30,000 feet above from what people are facing day-to-day. In other words you should even be taking about Israeli oppression because it is about the “Zionist agenda” rather than about “the system”? If that is the case then why are you contributing to this thread?

I guess the same could have been said about MLK and the whole Civil Rights movement that Blacks could have continued to endure RACISM until they chose to challenge the entire “system”.

The Palestinian much continue to endure their oppression until they are ready to challenge the “system”.

I hope you understand how ludicrous your position is or at best how it can be misinterpreted. IMO the best way to get people to challenge the system is to challenge the system from where they are. If you are fighting racism you are challenging the system. If you are fighting for workers right you are challenging the system. If you are fighting for women’s liberation you are challenging the system. If you are fighting Zionism you are challenging the system. If you are fighting against capitalism you are challenging the system.

Your remarks essentially condemn people in however their disparate tactics are effectively challenging the system. What is needed is solidarity that help activist see that with solidarity they can become more effective challenging the system. This is why I have advocated that the Left find solidarity with people of color confronting Zionism within the United States. This will then help to expand not only the ranks of the Left but to then EDUCATE people of color to look expand the struggle of White Supremacy.

My advocacy is simple: SOLIDARITY.

Thank you for sharing your experience related to international organization. Unfortunately, the Iranian ‘opposition’ groups have not reached maturity not to trust the manipulating tools of the imperial and Zionist west. People should read Michael Barker’s articles on role of the international organizations in expanding the influence of the west around the world under the banner of spreading ‘democracy.’

http://michaeljamesbarker.wordpress.com/

“Our sources in Gaza report that Israeli soldiers have entered and taken up positions in a number of Palestinian homes, forcing families to stay in a ground floor room while they use the rest of their house as a military base and sniper position,” said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty International’s Middle East and North Africa Programme. “

This clearly increases the risk to the Palestinian families concerned and means they are effectively being used as human shields.”
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/gaza-civilians-endangered-military-tactics-both-sides-20090108

So Israeli soldiers not only kill any moving object in Gaza but also take over houses that have nothing to do with the fighting and hold the family hostage to be used as human shield. On the other hand phony Amnesty International complains that Palestinian fighters shoot at the enemy close to the civilian population forgetting that Gaza is a densely populated prison which is against INTERNATIONAL LAWS to dilute Israeli savagery against a defenseless population for Public Relations.

Moreover, what can Israel actually achieve? It cannot ethnically cleanse Gaza and colonise it with Jews. If it occupies Gaza, it will be in the same quagmire it was in in Lebanon and of which the Israelis are clearly deeply afraid. If it just declares victory and leaves, which I suspect is what is now seeking to do, it will be perceived as a humiliating defeat.

If foreign troops come in, which I think was the initial purpose, it will also be a humiliation since it shows that Israel is unable to control a territory which it has occupied for nearly 42 years. In addition, it would also be, de facto, the definitive end of Israeli occupation of Gaza and would be followed by a de facto independent Palestinian, no doubt Hamas, administration there, protected from Israeli attack by the foreign troops. Since Israel would no longer control the border with Egypt, it would never again be possible for it to blockade Gaza or seek to starve the inhabitants out. Hamas (and Hezbollah) could then switch their fighters to the much juicier morsel of the West Bank, arguing that they had successfully got the Israelis out of Gaza.

The more one looks at it, the more it looks like Israeli flat-footedness has once again caused them to commit a monumental blunder.

Yes, get bribed by the West and blame the Holocaust on Arabs and Iranians. After all, wasn’t it Ahmadinejad that slaughtered 6 million Jews and not those civilized Europeans?

And it was all ‘Jews’, not communists, union leaders, gypsies, homosexuals and Jews. Yes, while you’re at it, you Zionist bandits can distort the hell out of the Holocaust.

And how inconsiderate of the world not to consider the feelings of those settler thugs who heckle, stone, shoot and murder innocent Palestinians.

I ask you this: the pogroms, tortures, and murders of the Jews were committed in the West. Shouldn’t Israel be in the heart of Germany? Let’s see how long the Germans will tolerate these Zionist bastards.

You said: ”Palestinians are killed for being the Muslims and Christians who hold historic, legal and even genetic title to that land.” Title to land is just another cause of conflict (oil, water, minerals etc). No land should have any ”title” or ”ownership” attached to it – the North American Indians and Australian Aborigines mostly understood this concept. The Europeans did not and thus wiped them out.

Still, my theory above only works in practice if ALL parties honor the land as sacred, not something to be privatised and raped to the brink of ecological disaster.

Like all human problems, the Palestine problem is systemic. Don’t focus on the Hamas rockets like a CNN junkie – this isn’t the problem. Don’t even focus on the Israeli army with their American-supplied helicopter gunships….or the Americans in the background salivating over the oil……or the Zionist agenda if Deadbeat is reading……or whatever little issue we like to focus on – all these issues aren’t the real problem but just consequences of it (although they do keep us so busy that we lose focus on the real problem). No one wants to face up to the real problem, which is our SYSTEM of rulership – economic, religious, political. Don’t even get me out of bed with any band-aid solution that falls short of wiping out these three blights on mankind.

Systemic problems need systemic solutions. Until then, Israeli/US helicopter gunships will continue to hit kids in ”military targets” like schools and hospitals.

yours are not dissident voices, they can be found anywhere in the corporate owned mainstream media.