You bring an interesting point: is a socialist government a democracy? Is Gaza a democracy? How shall we define democracy for the sake of this discussion?

There are perhaps two principles that can define democracy no matter which invocation you find. The first principle is that all members of the society have equal access to power and the second that all members enjoy universally recognized freedoms and liberties.

Is this the case for Gaza? What happened after Hamas became elected and overthrew the Fatah literally over buildings? Corruption is not an offense which deserves murder, so why did Hamas kill them? Has this lead to a better or worse democracy in Gaza? How has Hamas served its population since becoming the de facto power? Clearly they have had limited resources from Israeli blockades, but given the resources they do have, which economies have flourished? Have the social services that you state is their primary objective been met, or expanded on? Consider these questions about Hamas’ role in the fate of Gaza, and the shortcomings brought on to the population.

The Free Gaza Movement ship, SPIRIT OF HUMANITY, left Cyprus Wednesday morning carrying doctors, journalists, human rights workers, and parliamentarians. The ship also carried over a ton of desperately needed medicines donated by the European Campaign to Break the Siege, intended for overwhelmed hospitals in the Gaza Strip. At the request of the ship’s organizers the passenger list and manifest were publicly released, and Cypriot authorities searched the boat prior to its departure in order to certify that it only carried humanitarian items. The organizers also sent an official notification to the Israeli government of their intent to break through the blockade of Gaza.

At roughly 3am UST (1am GMT), in international waters 100 miles off the coast of Gaza, at least five Israeli gunboats surrounded the SPIRIT OF HUMANITY and began recklessly cutting in front of the slow-moving civilian craft. The Israeli warships radioed the SPIRIT, demanding that the ship turn around or they would open fire and “shoot.” When asked if the Israeli navy was acknowledging that they intended to commit a war crime by deliberately firing on unarmed civilians, the warships replied that they were prepared to use “any means” to stop the ship.

An earlier attempt by Free Gaza to deliver doctors and medical supplies
ended on 30 December when Israeli gunboats deliberately and eepeatedly rammed the DIGNITY, almost sinking that ship. Rather than endanger the lives of its passengers, the SPIRIT is now returning to Cyprus.

Israel’s reckless and shocking threats against an unarmed ship on a
mission of mercy are a violation of both international maritime law and
the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea, which states that “the high seas should be reserved for peaceful purposes.”

CALL the Israeli Government and demand that it immediately STOP attacking the civilian population of Gaza and STOP using violence to prevent human rights and humanitarian assistance to the Palestinian people.

Mark Regev in the Prime Minister’s office:
+972 2670 5354 or +972 5 0620 3264
mark.regev@it.pmo.gov.il

Shlomo Dror in the Ministry of Defence:
+972 3697 5339 or +972 50629 8148
mediasar@mod.gov.il

The Israeli Navy Spokesperson:
+ 972 5 781 86248

Thanks for your efforts and support. My family and I are okay. The
Children’s Hospital that was targeted last night was /Mohammed
el-Durra’s Hospital /to the east of Gaza city. Another UNRWA school was targeted yesterday in Khan Younis town. Civilans are the most suffering people. I have just heared news of two old retired UNRWA employees, Ahmed Osuf 73, and his wife Samira 66, and their daughter Areej 25 living in 8th floor of an apartment building. They found themselves through to the floo by a huge blast in a next buliding but debri was in their apartment. Their apartment is no longer safe; they left to stay with a friend family next block! Too many families have left their apartments to stay with relatives and friends inside Gaza city. Seven people have been reported dead today! toll has excede 900 and what has not been mentioned in the official reports and the media is that there are dead bodies in the outskirts of Gaz a but no one can reach them as they are in areas controlled by the Israeli army!

I will write whenever I get a chance for that.
*Prof. Abdelwahed*
Department of English
Faculty of Arts & Humanities
Al-Azhar University of Gaza
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Free Gaza boat Spirit of Humanity with 30 passengers and supplies has set sail and should arrive tomorrow morning. Mark Regev from the Israeli PM’s office and Shlomo Dror from the Israeli MoD have already been informed but an e-mail has just come through (14.11 GMT) saying that the Israelis have announced their intention to attack it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sheila Casey’s words written last week were never more true.
http://www.sheilacasey.com/2009/01/israel-is-a-criminal-nation-with-no-right-to-exist-.html

I am so deep in despair whilst this slaughter of innocents continues. Humanity where are you?

I see no sane way for a two state solution would work given the Zionist regime that invaded and set up “house” in the region. That “mindset”, that “ideology” must go.

Jews, Muslims, Christians, Budhists, whatever can stay. There will be no peace without dissolving the existing state of Israel.

{This would solve the problem of the second-class status of Palestinian citizens of Israel, the need for self-determination for Palestinians in the territories occupied in 1967, and the right of return of Palestinian refugees, all without driving Israeli Jews out of the country. It is the only possible solution.}

The history of partition shows regional state was supportive of the Zionists, partition of Palestine, not even Greece which is part of the Western orbit. Therefore, One state is the only solution to unjust partition of Palestine. Too much suffering , dispossession, imprisonment, deaths, oppression, racism and …. for the zionist expansionst plan, “the greater Israel.” No respect for Arabs especially Palestinians’ life.
Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild:

I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty’s Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:

His Majesty’s Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed
by Jews in any other country.

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours,
Arthur James Balfour7

When Arthur James Balfour illegally was transferring Palestinian’s land to Europea settlers without Palestinians’ permission, Balfour clearly expressed his condition for such a transfer if ever take place in his letter:
1- a national home not a ‘JEWISH STATE”
2-No prejudice in general
3-No prejudice against civil rights of the indigenous population
4-No prejudice against political rights of the indigenous population
5-No prejudice against religious rights of the indigenous population
6-No prejudice in housing against the indigenous population
7-No prejudice in ownership of land against the indigenous population
8-No prejudice against marriage of jews and non- jews
9-No prejudice against employment rights of the indigenous population
10-No prejudice in law against the indigenous population
11-No prejudice….

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favour of the Partition Plan, Switching their votes from November 25 to November 29 to provide the two-thirds majority were Liberia, the Philippines, and Haiti. All heavily dependent on the United States, they had been lobbied to change their votes.[ The State Department noted that it had been shown that unauthorized U.S. pressure groups, including members of Congress, sought to impose U.S. views on members of foreign delegations.[ The 30 countries (53%) that voted in favour of the partition were: Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussian SSR, Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Iceland, Luxembourg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Sweden, South Africa, Ukrainian SSR, United States of America, Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, Uruguay, Venezuela.
The 3 countries (5%) that were previously not in favor but voted in favor to the resolution due to United States pressure were: Haiti, Liberia, Philippines.
The 13 countries (23%) that voted against resolution were: Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.
The 10 countries (17%) that abstained were: Argentina, Chile, Republic of China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia. One state (2%) was absent: Thailand.
It was basically a vote by powers, the US and its satellite, and Soviet Union with its satellite, in addition to Rothschild family’s influence on British Empire, dismissing the interest and votes of the REGIONAL STATES, Arab countries, Asian countries, especially China and India, African countries and even Britain.
Britain where illegally gave the permission, did not vote ‘YES’ to Partition Palestine. Will OBAMA allows “undivided Jerusalem as Capital of Israel? That would be another TRAGEDY, isn’t it? Does he know the sad history of Palestine and Palestinian? Or is he still on page one of ‘uniqueness’ of Jewish holocaust?

Under the final sub-heading “What Needs to be Done?” the suggestions are honorable but I can’t see them actually happening in practice. To pick one example:

”Enormous pressure would also have to be brought to bear on the US, which assists Israel with billions of dollars annually as well as other forms of support”.

The phrase ”billions of dollars” just put this suggestion on the scrap heap. Sorry, but people need to make a profit. Do you expect Lockheed Martin to start growing tomatoes overnight? Also, I am wary of comparisons with South Africa, as if apartheid is history. I don’t think South Africa is a model for anything at the moment, except for cricket.

Maybe the UN should outlaw religion. That would be a start…………

War and Natural Gas: The Israeli Invasion and Gaza’s Offshore Gas Fields
by Michel Chossudovsky
Global Research, January 8, 2009
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=11680

“The military invasion of the Gaza Strip by Israeli Forces bears a direct relation to the control and ownership of strategic offshore gas reserves.

This is a war of conquest. Discovered in 2000, there are extensive gas reserves off the Gaza coastline.
..”

2.As a lifelong atheist, I have always thought that idea of a “secular state” with “freedom of religion” has been the greatest asset in the history of the U.S. The founding fathers, deists like Thomas Paine, all knew of the history of inquisitions and religious wars. Their thinking was an example of enlightenment

Thus to establish to try to establish peace between two theocratic states next to each other, with vastly dissimilar resources, means an eternity of war (usually for secular reasons) means between them.

What is possible? Here is a socialist perspective:

A socialist answer to the Gaza crisis
10 January 2009
The World Socialist Web Site editorial board
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/jan2009/pers-j10.shtml

The following statement [PDF] is being distributed at international demonstrations being held this weekend against the Israeli war in Gaza.

“The criminal character of the Israeli blitzkrieg against Gaza is becoming clearer day by day. According to the United Nations, nearly 800 men, women and children have been killed so far by the Israeli military and over 3,200 people have been wounded. Universities, schools, houses, bridges and drainage systems have been destroyed by huge 500-pound bombs. The extent of the humanitarian disaster in the Gaza Strip defies description.
…”

“How can the Israeli terror be halted? How can the future of the long-suffering Palestinian people be assured?

The organizers of today’s demonstrations have no answer to offer. …”

Busted Myth 1 – busted – :”Firstly, the myth that the founding of the Zionist state has anything to do with the Nazi genocide. In fact, the project was conceived decades before the Nazi holocaust, and was a straightforward colonial agenda in which European settlers would evict indigenous Third World people from their land and take it over” – I can only assume that Rohini is referring to the Balfour declaration, although Rohini doesn’t actually say this but rather foot notes a Gandhi quote. If my assumption is correct you must know that it is in fact a British governmental statement of policy. The push for Israel, a Jewish state, was only made stronger after the tragedies of the holocaust. So while you are are correct to suggest it was an idea that preceded the holocaust, you don’t actually bust any myth, but rather chose not to be entirely truthful. You should actually read the declaration, it says nothing of displacing the 3rd world people as you claim is the intent.

Busted Myth 3 – busted – “There were two models of settler-colonialism debated by the Zionists. One model, supported by very few, was the South African one, where the indigenous Palestinians, though evicted from their land and herded into Bantustans, would be allowed to remain in the country. The majority view was that the indigenous population should be eliminated, like the indigenous peoples of North America and Australia” – This statement and infact the entire myth 3 is absolutely absurd. How selective your memory is of history and the past. In 1948 there was 2 states, however it was the muslim world that attacked, but ofcourse why mention that, right? Israel, pulled out of Gaza in 2005, tore down its synagogues, schools, homes, community centres etc…, the people of Gaza then, yes, democratically elected hamas as its government, but all actions have a reaction. Hamas’ stated goal is not to live peaceably besides Israel, but its ultimate destruction and the elimination its people, what nation would not be prudent about such a disgusting proclamation. Rohini, living in India and Sri Lanka should will obviously know of this. So the one state solution that you advocate falls along the lines of Hamas’ goals. Israel as a Jewish state has a right to exist, gazans have a right to elect whom they wish but they also must live with their decisions.

Lets get one thing straight, I hope their is peace, and that further loss of life on all sides ceases. Please, when you engage in a dialogue do use some revisionist account of history it demeans us all.

Those for the motion: 65% (before the debate); 68% (after the debate)
Those against: 17% ( ” ” ” ); 27% ( ” ” ” )

Thx.

Now I must stop this post and turn my attention to BBC’s debate and topic discussion ‘ Is George Bush the worse president in American history?’

Madam Speaker, I rise in opposition to this resolution, not because I’m taking sides and picking who the bad guys are and who the good guys are. But I’m looking at this more from the angle of being a US citizen, an American.
I think resolutions like this really do us great harm. In many ways, what’s happening in the Middle East , in particular with Gaza right now , we have some moral responsibility for both sides in a way, because we provide help and funding for both Arab nations and Israel.
So we definitely have a moral responsibility especially now today, the weapons being used to kill so many Palestinians are American weapons and American funds essentially are being used for this…

But there is a political liability which I think we fail to look at, because too often there is too much blowback from our intervention in areas that we shouldn’t be involved in…
If we look back at history, you will find out Hamas was encouraged and really started by Israel because they wanted Hamas to counteract Yasser Arafat….so when they served this purpose we (Israel and the US) didn’t want Hamas to do this…

So then, we as Americans say well, we have such a good system (i.e. democracy), we going to impose this on the World, we going to invade Iraq and teach people how to be democrats. We want free elections. So we encourage the Palestinians to have a free election. They do, and they elect Hamas. So we first indirectly and then directly through Israel help establish Hamas. They have elections and then Hamas becomes dominant. So now, we have to KILL them.

You know, it just doesn’t make sense!

During the ‘80s, we were allied with Osama bin Laden when contending with the Soviets. It was at that time our CIA felt it was good if we radicalize the Moslem world. So we finance them to radicalize the Moslems in order to compete with the Soviets.. There is too much blowback…

There is a lot of reasons why we should oppose this resolution, It’s not in the interests of the US and it’s not in the interests of Israel, either!

Paul’s 2 minutes intervention ends here. Then this last punch line from my favourite Moron and World’s Greatest Moral-Dwarf:

IF THIS WERE A DICTATORSHIP IT WOULD BE A HACK OF A LOT EASIER….JUST SO LONG I’M THE DICTATOR….

…..then hearty laughing in the background….

I needn’t add any further comment. PERIOD!

You are entirely correct in putting forth the “one state solution” as the only way to peace in the region.

My only criticism: “In fact, the project [Zionism] was conceived decades before the Nazi holocaust”. While this is true, I think it would be stronger rhetorically to state that it was conceived over 60 years (or “over a half century) before the Nazi holocaust. As decades could be 21 years…

Thnks.