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	<title>Comments on: Frederick Engels and Early Christianity</title>
	<atom:link href="http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/</link>
	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 10 Jun 2013 19:49:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35361</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[anon2, thnx for letting me know. i also make lotsof typos; even tho i reread my posts.
it may be that the corrections i make don&#039;t take.
so there are two problems: typos and abbreviations. thnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>anon2, thnx for letting me know. i also make lotsof typos; even tho i reread my posts.<br />
it may be that the corrections i make don&#8217;t take.<br />
so there are two problems: typos and abbreviations. thnx</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anon2</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35303</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 21:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[bozh - you hve interesting things to say - 
yet - like this post
are DIFFICULT to READ so most P-A-S-S
becuz you need to SPELL/WRITE correctly.

More would read your posts that you work so hard to send if you spent more time on HOW you write.

Please consider.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bozh &#8211; you hve interesting things to say &#8211;<br />
yet &#8211; like this post<br />
are DIFFICULT to READ so most P-A-S-S<br />
becuz you need to SPELL/WRITE correctly.</p>
<p>More would read your posts that you work so hard to send if you spent more time on HOW you write.</p>
<p>Please consider.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35297</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35297</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[eric, thnx for reading my input. actually, it is not mine but belongs to world lore; i&#039;m just a messenger.
nearly everything i know, i know from  others.

ab jesus. if u wld read torah or bible several times or over a lifetime; u&#039;l discover many contradictions, verbal brilliances, commandments, etc.

and we humans r notorious for not learning by commandments. and we do not know what jesus said; we only know what some priests said jesus said.

eg, jesus was quoted as saying, For u shall always have poor amongst u.
now, is that what god wishes for some people? poverty?
he may have said, Meek shall inherit the earth. but how ab children and women of palestine?  where is their inheritance?  in graves, right?

but even priests like, robert schuller, says bible is an interpretative writ. so is the constitution but only a plutocratic interpretation is accepted not mine or urs. thnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eric, thnx for reading my input. actually, it is not mine but belongs to world lore; i&#8217;m just a messenger.<br />
nearly everything i know, i know from  others.</p>
<p>ab jesus. if u wld read torah or bible several times or over a lifetime; u&#8217;l discover many contradictions, verbal brilliances, commandments, etc.</p>
<p>and we humans r notorious for not learning by commandments. and we do not know what jesus said; we only know what some priests said jesus said.</p>
<p>eg, jesus was quoted as saying, For u shall always have poor amongst u.<br />
now, is that what god wishes for some people? poverty?<br />
he may have said, Meek shall inherit the earth. but how ab children and women of palestine?  where is their inheritance?  in graves, right?</p>
<p>but even priests like, robert schuller, says bible is an interpretative writ. so is the constitution but only a plutocratic interpretation is accepted not mine or urs. thnx</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35290</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 20:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35290</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank You bozh point taken and we see the results of such chaos. But can it not be said that if we adhered closely to the teachings of the greatest man who ever walked the Earth that world conditions would be better?  What I meant to relate in my original post was that the worlds religions are looking to ordinary people for guidance  which can not succeed.  There are a people today, however that are willing to disown themselves and listen to this great teacher Jesus.  This is a society that does exist in  unity/agreement.  In no way should this be in the shadows of being pious ,self rightousness or fostering hatred.  No matter if one wants to call it socialistic or communistic the only way to draw a wrong conclusion on the matter is for one to assume to know all about this without an investigation.  If one did they would find a true theocracy.  

Humbly submitted]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank You bozh point taken and we see the results of such chaos. But can it not be said that if we adhered closely to the teachings of the greatest man who ever walked the Earth that world conditions would be better?  What I meant to relate in my original post was that the worlds religions are looking to ordinary people for guidance  which can not succeed.  There are a people today, however that are willing to disown themselves and listen to this great teacher Jesus.  This is a society that does exist in  unity/agreement.  In no way should this be in the shadows of being pious ,self rightousness or fostering hatred.  No matter if one wants to call it socialistic or communistic the only way to draw a wrong conclusion on the matter is for one to assume to know all about this without an investigation.  If one did they would find a true theocracy.  </p>
<p>Humbly submitted</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35262</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35262</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[eric,
w. ur permit, let me explain what  implications of any sentence means.
here&#039;s an example: we went into iraq to establish a democracy. now, let&#039;s hunt for silent assumptions hidden in this statement?
actually they r not hidden, but profound or hidden to most people.
the statement above implies:
it wldn&#039;t be tajiks, uzbeks, or pashtuns who will build the democracy but US which is democratic.
but US is not a democracy nor do we have anywhere a democracy; perhaps here and there we may have an incipient demo.

it implies also that nato has an a priori right to invade a land

it implies that nato/us is correct;doing the butchery w. good intentions.

it implies that afhg&#039;n and iraq have imperiled the west; in spite of the fact that no afghan or iraqi had hurt a canadian or euro in any matter whasoever.
and one cld go on. hope u obtained an elucidation. it has nothing to do w. eloquence; eloquence being generalized and meningless uttrances. thnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eric,<br />
w. ur permit, let me explain what  implications of any sentence means.<br />
here&#8217;s an example: we went into iraq to establish a democracy. now, let&#8217;s hunt for silent assumptions hidden in this statement?<br />
actually they r not hidden, but profound or hidden to most people.<br />
the statement above implies:<br />
it wldn&#8217;t be tajiks, uzbeks, or pashtuns who will build the democracy but US which is democratic.<br />
but US is not a democracy nor do we have anywhere a democracy; perhaps here and there we may have an incipient demo.</p>
<p>it implies also that nato has an a priori right to invade a land</p>
<p>it implies that nato/us is correct;doing the butchery w. good intentions.</p>
<p>it implies that afhg&#8217;n and iraq have imperiled the west; in spite of the fact that no afghan or iraqi had hurt a canadian or euro in any matter whasoever.<br />
and one cld go on. hope u obtained an elucidation. it has nothing to do w. eloquence; eloquence being generalized and meningless uttrances. thnx</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35245</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 13:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35245</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Implicatory structure of language sounds very eloquent.  Implying that it sounds fluent and persuasive.  Although that being the case I was not speaking in general terms and instead of fostering meaningless debate it causes it to cease.  Two similar responses.  Be it lengthly or brief , one being calm another angered. In either case our tendency is to follow the path of least resistance.  Of course not knowing for sure anything said or reasoned will not relieve any of us from responsibility all though empty reasoning  like mentioning sexual intercourse in a crude manner can make one  feel that way.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Implicatory structure of language sounds very eloquent.  Implying that it sounds fluent and persuasive.  Although that being the case I was not speaking in general terms and instead of fostering meaningless debate it causes it to cease.  Two similar responses.  Be it lengthly or brief , one being calm another angered. In either case our tendency is to follow the path of least resistance.  Of course not knowing for sure anything said or reasoned will not relieve any of us from responsibility all though empty reasoning  like mentioning sexual intercourse in a crude manner can make one  feel that way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: AaronG</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35243</link>
		<dc:creator>AaronG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35243</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Some of Paul&#039;s biblical advice to the people living in Corinth (relating to their poorer friends living in Macedonia):

For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have. For I do not mean for it to be easy for others, but hard on YOU;  but that by means of an equalizing YOUR surplus just now might offset their deficiency, in order that their surplus might also come to offset YOUR deficiency, that an equalizing might take place. Just as it is written: “The person with much did not have too much, and the person with little did not have too little.” (2Corinthians 8:12-15)

An equalizing of possessions is not a difficult concept to grasp. Some might want to put a label on this kind of biblical philosophy like &#039;&#039;socialism&#039;&#039;. Whatever you call it, it is so simplistic that Milton Friedman wouldn&#039;t be able to grasp it, but my 4yo daughter can. There is no Doctorate in Sharing at the University of Chicago as far as I know.

Eric, I&#039;m with you brother....................]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of Paul&#8217;s biblical advice to the people living in Corinth (relating to their poorer friends living in Macedonia):</p>
<p>For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have. For I do not mean for it to be easy for others, but hard on YOU;  but that by means of an equalizing YOUR surplus just now might offset their deficiency, in order that their surplus might also come to offset YOUR deficiency, that an equalizing might take place. Just as it is written: “The person with much did not have too much, and the person with little did not have too little.” (2Corinthians 8:12-15)</p>
<p>An equalizing of possessions is not a difficult concept to grasp. Some might want to put a label on this kind of biblical philosophy like &#8221;socialism&#8221;. Whatever you call it, it is so simplistic that Milton Friedman wouldn&#8217;t be able to grasp it, but my 4yo daughter can. There is no Doctorate in Sharing at the University of Chicago as far as I know.</p>
<p>Eric, I&#8217;m with you brother&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: The Angry Peasant</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35234</link>
		<dc:creator>The Angry Peasant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eric,
Fuck off.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric,<br />
Fuck off.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: Dr. Scotch</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35223</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Scotch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 02:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael-- I don&#039;t think there was any sneer at Islam. He said &quot;some&quot; and that certainly must be true. There are certainly some crazy Muslims as is true of any group. He also made fun of Christians and even Marxists--  of which I think he is one. Lighten up!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael&#8211; I don&#8217;t think there was any sneer at Islam. He said &#8220;some&#8221; and that certainly must be true. There are certainly some crazy Muslims as is true of any group. He also made fun of Christians and even Marxists&#8211;  of which I think he is one. Lighten up!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35164</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:33:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35164</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[eric,
if u have studied implicatory structure of any language, u wld know that the statement  &quot;the only time a person is wrong is when that person thinks s/he knows&quot; is an generalization.
and a generalization is neither wrong or right. all generalizations r meaningful/meaningless; ie, r interpretative; w, endless meanings; potentially having a different meaning for each person.
religion clearly shows  that, as there are thousands of sects; each claiming to be infallible.

a propagandist knows this and will get u involved in an endless acrimonial discussion ab what  religion, politics, capiatalism, fascsim, socialism, justice, peace, fairness, etc. mean.
meanwhile, while we r discussing, s&#039;mbody else decides what is to be done.

ab jesus.  no one know what jesus said. one can only tell and tell but never show nor prove. it can be assumed that both torah the whorah and bible the blable r adulterated; thus so much bitterness/hatred/intolerance by pious people. thnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eric,<br />
if u have studied implicatory structure of any language, u wld know that the statement  &#8220;the only time a person is wrong is when that person thinks s/he knows&#8221; is an generalization.<br />
and a generalization is neither wrong or right. all generalizations r meaningful/meaningless; ie, r interpretative; w, endless meanings; potentially having a different meaning for each person.<br />
religion clearly shows  that, as there are thousands of sects; each claiming to be infallible.</p>
<p>a propagandist knows this and will get u involved in an endless acrimonial discussion ab what  religion, politics, capiatalism, fascsim, socialism, justice, peace, fairness, etc. mean.<br />
meanwhile, while we r discussing, s&#8217;mbody else decides what is to be done.</p>
<p>ab jesus.  no one know what jesus said. one can only tell and tell but never show nor prove. it can be assumed that both torah the whorah and bible the blable r adulterated; thus so much bitterness/hatred/intolerance by pious people. thnx</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35160</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 16:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35160</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[michael, 
ab engels.  meaning sent may not be meaning received.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>michael,<br />
ab engels.  meaning sent may not be meaning received.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: Michael Kenny</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35157</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 15:38:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35157</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And then he goes and spoils it all by saying something stupid ...
 &quot;Some Muslims would presumably not like this Heaven, not only are there no (female) virgins in it, there are no women whatsoever.&quot;

He couldn&#039;t resist sneering at Islam! A wholly gratuitous sneer, too, in an article (supposedly) devoted to the relationship between Christianity and marxism. At that point, the whole article loses its credibility.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And then he goes and spoils it all by saying something stupid &#8230;<br />
 &#8220;Some Muslims would presumably not like this Heaven, not only are there no (female) virgins in it, there are no women whatsoever.&#8221;</p>
<p>He couldn&#8217;t resist sneering at Islam! A wholly gratuitous sneer, too, in an article (supposedly) devoted to the relationship between Christianity and marxism. At that point, the whole article loses its credibility.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35152</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 11:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The most interesting thing and most wise comment that I have ever heard a man say, of course besides Christ Jesus himself,  is so simple yet most powerful.  &quot;The only time a man can be wrong is when he assumes he knows.&quot; 

  I kindly suggest that it may be interesting to you to closely examine a modern day organization that is a world class theocratic group, a society in our midst within secular society that practices exactly what you were talking about. Complete reliance on Jesus&#039; teachings and none other. A society within a society,  7 million worldwide.  With the greatest humility I suggest that you may find it interesting to interview one of our Brothers to see how this miraculous organization covers the earth in over 400 languages 236 lands by common unlettered volunteer publishers from every walk of life in every country. We operate in more than 100,000 small congregations, usually numbering less than 100, the world over and are also persecuted down to this day, yes even hated because they like Jesus are no part of this political world. (John 18:36) Our identifying mark is love (John 13:34,35) and in going from house to house preaching to the individual person. (Acts of the Apostles 20:20)  Putting doctrine aside for a moment and focusing only on the activities and the unity of this theocratic organization would amaze any thinking individual. I am willing to guess you even know who I am talking about.  Many think alot of different things about these people.  Many say they know about these people and tell others to stay away.  &quot;It&#039;s a cult&quot; is a favorite comment as well as amusing.  But an individual can only be wrong about them if he assumes he knows about them. 

Thanks Eric]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most interesting thing and most wise comment that I have ever heard a man say, of course besides Christ Jesus himself,  is so simple yet most powerful.  &#8220;The only time a man can be wrong is when he assumes he knows.&#8221; </p>
<p>  I kindly suggest that it may be interesting to you to closely examine a modern day organization that is a world class theocratic group, a society in our midst within secular society that practices exactly what you were talking about. Complete reliance on Jesus&#8217; teachings and none other. A society within a society,  7 million worldwide.  With the greatest humility I suggest that you may find it interesting to interview one of our Brothers to see how this miraculous organization covers the earth in over 400 languages 236 lands by common unlettered volunteer publishers from every walk of life in every country. We operate in more than 100,000 small congregations, usually numbering less than 100, the world over and are also persecuted down to this day, yes even hated because they like Jesus are no part of this political world. (John 18:36) Our identifying mark is love (John 13:34,35) and in going from house to house preaching to the individual person. (Acts of the Apostles 20:20)  Putting doctrine aside for a moment and focusing only on the activities and the unity of this theocratic organization would amaze any thinking individual. I am willing to guess you even know who I am talking about.  Many think alot of different things about these people.  Many say they know about these people and tell others to stay away.  &#8220;It&#8217;s a cult&#8221; is a favorite comment as well as amusing.  But an individual can only be wrong about them if he assumes he knows about them. </p>
<p>Thanks Eric</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: The Angry Peasant</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35143</link>
		<dc:creator>The Angry Peasant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 06:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35143</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Right. The major dilemma with capitalism at its essence, as Marx and Engels told us, is its cyclical rise-and-fall nature. Look at the last forty years in the U.S.:

Late 60&#039;s: Big Recession

Mid-70&#039;s: Big Recession

Early 80&#039;s: Big Recession

Early 90&#039;s: Big Recession

2000&#039;s: One long recession leading to a Depression scare.

Over and over and over again. The economy booms; the economy busts. Just fine for the wealthy, but the mass majority is hurt over and over during the course of their lives. It needs to stop.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right. The major dilemma with capitalism at its essence, as Marx and Engels told us, is its cyclical rise-and-fall nature. Look at the last forty years in the U.S.:</p>
<p>Late 60&#8242;s: Big Recession</p>
<p>Mid-70&#8242;s: Big Recession</p>
<p>Early 80&#8242;s: Big Recession</p>
<p>Early 90&#8242;s: Big Recession</p>
<p>2000&#8242;s: One long recession leading to a Depression scare.</p>
<p>Over and over and over again. The economy booms; the economy busts. Just fine for the wealthy, but the mass majority is hurt over and over during the course of their lives. It needs to stop.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Hue Longer</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35116</link>
		<dc:creator>Hue Longer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 01:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[it is strange eh, gentlemen?  It&#039;s like shooting an unarmed man in the head and claiming that peace doesn&#039;t work.  &quot;See?!  See?!&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it is strange eh, gentlemen?  It&#8217;s like shooting an unarmed man in the head and claiming that peace doesn&#8217;t work.  &#8220;See?!  See?!&#8221;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Norman Ball</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35105</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman Ball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 23:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35105</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s become pabulum: &#039;socialism doesn&#039;t work.&#039; I&#039;m always suspicious of pabulum, especially at an historic inflection point such as where we are. Of course the statement begs the question, And capitalism does work? Certainly the elite have taken a recent shine to socialist tenets. 

Coincidentally enough, I&#039;ve reading and re-reading the following Engels passage the last couple of weeks, feeling as though it could have been
written yesterday:

“Commerce is at a standstill, the markets are glutted, products accumulate, as multitudinous as they are unsaleable, hard cash disappears, credit vanishes, factories are closed, the mass of the workers are in want of the means of subsistence, because they have produced too much of the means of subsistence; bankruptcy follows upon bankruptcy, execution upon execution.

The stagnation lasts for years; productive forces and products are wasted and destroyed wholesale, until the accumulated mass of commodities finally filter off, more or less depreciated in value, until production and exchange gradually begin to move again.

Little by little, the pace quickens. It becomes a trot. The industrial trot breaks into a canter, the canter in turn grows into the headlong gallop of a perfect steeplechase of industry, commercial credit and speculation, which finally, after breakneck leaps, ends where it began--in the ditch of a crisis. And so over and over again.”]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s become pabulum: &#8216;socialism doesn&#8217;t work.&#8217; I&#8217;m always suspicious of pabulum, especially at an historic inflection point such as where we are. Of course the statement begs the question, And capitalism does work? Certainly the elite have taken a recent shine to socialist tenets. </p>
<p>Coincidentally enough, I&#8217;ve reading and re-reading the following Engels passage the last couple of weeks, feeling as though it could have been<br />
written yesterday:</p>
<p>“Commerce is at a standstill, the markets are glutted, products accumulate, as multitudinous as they are unsaleable, hard cash disappears, credit vanishes, factories are closed, the mass of the workers are in want of the means of subsistence, because they have produced too much of the means of subsistence; bankruptcy follows upon bankruptcy, execution upon execution.</p>
<p>The stagnation lasts for years; productive forces and products are wasted and destroyed wholesale, until the accumulated mass of commodities finally filter off, more or less depreciated in value, until production and exchange gradually begin to move again.</p>
<p>Little by little, the pace quickens. It becomes a trot. The industrial trot breaks into a canter, the canter in turn grows into the headlong gallop of a perfect steeplechase of industry, commercial credit and speculation, which finally, after breakneck leaps, ends where it began&#8211;in the ditch of a crisis. And so over and over again.”</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35090</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35090</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[hue,
all movements deemed by the patricians as a negative to their interests have been destroyed; oft by blood.
but socialism was hated more than anything else. existence of an incipient socialism in e. europe forced the rulers to give inor face mass uprising. thnx for ur comment.

if we entirely drop away a word like socialism and think ab how we can improve interpersonal and international relationships, we wldn&#039;t not bog dwn in a mere label and what it may mean.

especailly since we did not have it  yet anywhere. one can&#039;t know  an apple save by eating it.
surely, a society like in UK , canada, or germany waging wars against pals, afghans, iraqis, is  a murderous/vile  society.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hue,<br />
all movements deemed by the patricians as a negative to their interests have been destroyed; oft by blood.<br />
but socialism was hated more than anything else. existence of an incipient socialism in e. europe forced the rulers to give inor face mass uprising. thnx for ur comment.</p>
<p>if we entirely drop away a word like socialism and think ab how we can improve interpersonal and international relationships, we wldn&#8217;t not bog dwn in a mere label and what it may mean.</p>
<p>especailly since we did not have it  yet anywhere. one can&#8217;t know  an apple save by eating it.<br />
surely, a society like in UK , canada, or germany waging wars against pals, afghans, iraqis, is  a murderous/vile  society.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Hue Longer</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35088</link>
		<dc:creator>Hue Longer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:52:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35088</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A point I thought bozh was making was that the failing of Stalin&#039;s Russia wasn&#039;t just due to his (or the rest of their) hijacking of the words, &quot;socialism&quot;  or &quot;communism&quot;, but outside and inside capitalist enemies.  It&#039;s weird watching US Americans discussing how wrong Castro is concerning Communism as US embargoes, espionage, ecocide and terror are all unaccounted for in their perception of Cuba&#039;s success (not to mention a seeming lack of &quot;flash&quot; that people living real lives have).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A point I thought bozh was making was that the failing of Stalin&#8217;s Russia wasn&#8217;t just due to his (or the rest of their) hijacking of the words, &#8220;socialism&#8221;  or &#8220;communism&#8221;, but outside and inside capitalist enemies.  It&#8217;s weird watching US Americans discussing how wrong Castro is concerning Communism as US embargoes, espionage, ecocide and terror are all unaccounted for in their perception of Cuba&#8217;s success (not to mention a seeming lack of &#8220;flash&#8221; that people living real lives have).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: bozh</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35075</link>
		<dc:creator>bozh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 18:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35075</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[paesano, ok.
thnx for the clarifaction. i have read all ur posts but do not remember anything u have said ab socialism.
socialists fail socialism, i agree. in US  it can only be established as an incipient social democracy if it is fought for by a party; a much stronger party that uncle sam&#039;s.
in absence of  a second party and existence of enormously strong uncle&#039;s party not much can be improved for many.
that&#039;s why uncle has a party; one and the only. is he dumb to allow or have two.
he outlawed communist party! why? thnx]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>paesano, ok.<br />
thnx for the clarifaction. i have read all ur posts but do not remember anything u have said ab socialism.<br />
socialists fail socialism, i agree. in US  it can only be established as an incipient social democracy if it is fought for by a party; a much stronger party that uncle sam&#8217;s.<br />
in absence of  a second party and existence of enormously strong uncle&#8217;s party not much can be improved for many.<br />
that&#8217;s why uncle has a party; one and the only. is he dumb to allow or have two.<br />
he outlawed communist party! why? thnx</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The Angry Peasant</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/01/frederick-engels-and-early-christianity/#comment-35074</link>
		<dc:creator>The Angry Peasant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 18:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5811#comment-35074</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Let me also say that if it weren&#039;t for the overwhelming greed and stupidity exhibited by generations of people in this country, capitalism may have reasonably worked. But it was corrupted too early, and in too young, foolish, and inexperienced a country as this. You see most European nations manage to have a capitalist system at their cores, but implement socialist policies like universal health care, good and accessible education, and housing where they need to. As a result, their cultures and standards of living are considerably better than ours. This is because they recognize the basic rights of human beings, whereas the U.S. has long abandoned these all-important notions, turning the majority of its population into livestock.
We need to abandon this way of life and start again with something more sensible and a hell of a lot more humane. This is why we need a socialist structure of government.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me also say that if it weren&#8217;t for the overwhelming greed and stupidity exhibited by generations of people in this country, capitalism may have reasonably worked. But it was corrupted too early, and in too young, foolish, and inexperienced a country as this. You see most European nations manage to have a capitalist system at their cores, but implement socialist policies like universal health care, good and accessible education, and housing where they need to. As a result, their cultures and standards of living are considerably better than ours. This is because they recognize the basic rights of human beings, whereas the U.S. has long abandoned these all-important notions, turning the majority of its population into livestock.<br />
We need to abandon this way of life and start again with something more sensible and a hell of a lot more humane. This is why we need a socialist structure of government.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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