Fact and Law Checking the Wall Street Journal and Alan Dershowitz

Alan Runs for President of Israel

Part I: Dershowitz Misstates the Facts

Israel is leveling Gaza to strike at Hamas, just as they pulverized south Lebanon to strike at Hezbollah. Yet in both cases civilian populations were attacked, countless innocents killed or injured, infrastructure targeted and destroyed, and civil law enforcement negated. All this was, and is, disproportionate, indiscriminate mass violence in violation of international law. Israel is not exempt from international law and must be held accountable. It is time for the UN to not just call for a cease-fire, but for an inquiry as to Israel’s illegal actions.

— US Congressman Dennis Kucinich, 12/29/08

Shatila Palestinian Refugee Camp, Beirut — Typically, within the first ten days or so of enrolling in an American law school, Boston University School of Law in this observer’s case, a student will begin to receive from Professors or seasoned upper classmates plenty of gratuitous but well intentioned advice. One bit that still rattles around in my ever-shrinking and increasingly over-crowded pea brain came from our Law School Librarian, Mr. Taylor.

More than once during my three year stint, I heard the sometimes crotchety Mr. Taylor, a brilliant former Boston trial lawyer, intone, with sometimes lavish flair (truth be told, he occasionally nipped White Horse scotch behind the Federal Supp. 2nd Stacks — but we never ratted him out to Dean Suskind) law students in the Pappas Library trying to concentrate on writing their Briefs for the Homer Albers Moots Court Competition:

“Future lawyers! Remember well! If, God forbid, some miserable wretch on this green earth should have the misfortune or exceedingly poor judgment to hire you to represent them in Court, heeds this!

“If you find yourself arguing a case before a skeptical judge or jury and the law is clearly against you, for Christ’s sake jump up and down and argue all the facts you can think of in your clients favor!”

Then Mr. Taylor would invariably add, “On the other hand my dears, if the facts of the case are clearly against you, for Christ’s sake jump up and down, but this time ignore or deny every single material fact and argue only the law. Look the judge or jury straight in the eye, with tears in yours, lower your voice and softly rant about the technicalities of the law and how the very survival of Western Civilization, which came to us, after all, with our mothers milk, depends on strictly applying it in your clients favor.”

Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz, in his latest Arab-phobic, ultra-Zionist screed, in last week’s Wall Street Journal, in defense of Israel’s ongoing slaughter in Gaza, having neither the law nor the facts in his favor, figuratively at least, just jumps up and down and rants.

Harvard Law School sources, including the student newspaper, the Harvard Law Record, indicate that Alan is just acting out again and being ‘lawyerly’ as he cozies up to various right wing power centers in Israel with his eyes peeled wide on being President of Israel when he retires.

Some faculty colleagues and law students are encouraging him to retire sooner rather than later, as Harvard wearies of his witch hunts and hysterics and the disrepute he has brought on that institution with his myriad smear campaigns. Among his long list of victims have been against the likes of President Carter, Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Norman Finkelstein, Nelson Mandela, Kofi Annan, the Dali Lama, Bishop Tutu, and all manner of supporters of the Palestinians right and obligation to resist the Israeli occupation and struggle to reacquire their stolen land. Not to mention his ex-girlfriend.

In his January 3, 2009 article in the Wall Street Journal entitled, “Israel’s Policy Is Perfectly Proportionate,” Professor Dershowitz, defends Israel’s operation “Molton Lead” and while doing so consistently misstates the Facts and the Law.

Dershowitz Misstates the Facts

Alan Dershowitz (AD): “Hamas knew that Israel would never fire at a home with civilians in it.”

Fact Check: On the contrary Hamas and every person over 7 years old of the 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza and everyone in Lebanon and Palestine know that Israel will for sure “fire at a home with civilians in it.” And also ambulances, convoys fleeing a war zone with prior UN and IDF approval and waving white flags, homes with only five children and their mother inside as they did in Nabysheet, Lebanon on July 19, 2006, destroying the family of my friend Abu Mohammad Chokr. History has shown that is what Israel does regularly and why it is increasingly a Pariah State.

Virtually every human rights organization including Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and relevant UN Agencies, the European Union, objective Israeli and international investigative journalists digging beneath the main stream Zionist media headlines has documented hundreds of cases of Israel targeting “a home with civilians in it.” No fewer than 234 cases of firing on civilians in South Lebanon alone during 2006, and hundreds of others in Palestine. In the past week in Gaza (12/29/08-1/6/09) Israel fired on more than 54 homes with civilians in them.

AD: “Terrorists firing at Sderot are so proud of their actions that they sign their weapons.”

Fact Check: Goodness Professor, since the days of cave men, the armies of the Greece, Rome, Genghus Khan, to cowboys in the American west notching or ‘signing’ their six-guns and rifles, one imagines virtually every army in history has been done this. We do know the ‘most moral,’ ‘elite’ and ‘purity of arms guys and gals in the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) do it as well. Yet it is a bit less sinister for lonely scared fighters to sign their weapons as a ‘security blanket’ than for the Public Information unit in the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs to herd Israeli youngsters onto buses, as was done in 2006 in Lebanon, to visit IDF artillery bases and be given felt pens and told to sign the 155 mm cluster bomb rounds containing US supplied M-24, M-77 bomblets, before they are fired into South Lebanon in to kill and maim fellow school children.

And indeed, sorry to be indelicate, but it is also a bit more civilized to sign ones weapon than the traditional practice of the Israeli forces entering civilian houses in numerous villages in South Lebanon in 2006 (they did the same this in during their wars against Lebanon in 1978, 1982, 1993, and 1996 — and rubbing their feces over walls, inside water tanks, in pillows, beds etc poisoning wells and booby trapping children’s toys (apparently it’s an Occupation thing that warrants psychological study).

AD: “Since Israel ended its occupation of Gaza, Hamas has fired thousands of rockets.”

Fact Check: Israel never ended its occupation of Gaza. Following the 9/11/05 dismantlement of its illegal colony/settlements, Israel maintained nearly total control of Gaza’s borders, airspace, territorial waters (preventing most fishing), electricity, life-lines and economy, turning it into a sealed prison resembling the Warsaw Ghetto, according to UN Special Rapporteur, Richard Falk.

Palestinians living in Gaza not only have the right, but the obligation to resist Israel’s continuing illegal occupation. Indeed, the very existence of Gaza is a historical reminder of those hundreds of thousands of Palestinians who lost their homes to Israel. Gaza is a Palestinian refugee camp — all of it. More than 80% of its inhabitants were victims of Zionist terrorism that pushed them off their land — many from Askelon, their heritage from that now Jewish town nearly erased, as Robert Fisk reminds us.

AD: “Barack Obama visited Sderot this summer and saw the remnants of these rockets, he reacted by saying that if his two daughters were exposed to rocket attacks in their home, he would do everything in his power to stop such attacks. He understands how the terrorists exploit the morality of democracies.”

Fact Check: President-elect Obama feels the very same that every parent does including the parents of the 800,000 Palestinian children in Gaza including the parents of more than 147 children killed during the past seven days.

AD’s claim of Israel as a ‘moral Democracy’ is not backed by the facts. The 20% of its population that are Arabs are not included in this myth. Countless studies by Israeli and international human rights organizations, researchers and on the scene journalists have painstakingly documented the Apartheid nature of Israel. When it comes to education, housing, employments, medical services, government loans, travel, marriage, Israel’s Arab population does not share in the ‘moral Democracy’ of Israel only in its immoral, racist Apartheid system.

AD: “Hamas knows from experience that even a small number of innocent Palestinian civilians killed inadvertently will result in bitter condemnation of Israel by many in the international community.”

Fact Check: And well should such killings, even if inadvertent, be condemned. But Professor Dershowitz’s ‘small number’ is not a small number for the rest of the World. During the July 2006 War (not the “Second Lebanon War” as Israeli apologists like to refer to it while overlooking the Israeli Wars against Lebanon in 1978, 1993, and 1996) an estimated 82% of those killed in Lebanon were civilians, more than one-third children under age of 15. A ‘small number’ only in Alan’s World. In Gaza the same pattern may or may not hold. Either way, the World, and not just Hamas, is getting tired of Israel inadvertently killing ‘small numbers’ of those it occupies or attacks.

AD: “Israel goes to enormous lengths to reduce the number of civilian casualties — even to the point of foregoing legitimate targets that are too close to civilians.”

Fact Check: Nonsense Professor. If the targets are “too close to civilians” such as their homes, schools, cars, places of worship, hospitals etc. they are by definition not legitimate. But there is no evidence that “enormous lengths to reduce the number of civilian casualties” have ever been taken by Israel when attacking its neighbors. The absence of Zionist concern for civilians has been the case going back more than 70 years, since the Zionist gangs in pre-Nakba Palestine, between December 12, 1947 at Haifa and Ramla to November 2, 1948 at Arab al-Mawasi, not quite one year, committed 27 massacres of civilians in Palestine. This practice continues until today in Gaza with the week-ends killing of three rescuers in an Israeli attack in Tal el-Hawa, killing two medics in an ambulance in Hay al Zaytoun, and five children from one family near al-Shifa Hospital.

Next: Part II: Professor Dershowitz misstates the Law.

Franklin Lamb is author of the recently released book, The Price We Pay: A Quarter Century of Israel's Use of American Weapons in Lebanon. His volume Hezbollah: A Brief Guide for Beginners is due out soon. He can be reached at fplamb@gmail.com. Read other articles by Franklin, or visit Franklin's website.

48 comments on this article so far ...

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  1. Dan Alba said on January 6th, 2009 at 3:11pm #

    Franklin Lamb is a journalist. Which is precisely why he doesn’t work for AP or the New York Times. Long live Franklin Lamb.

  2. sk said on January 6th, 2009 at 3:50pm #

    Alan Dershowitz’ student researchers have exposed his research modus operandi: it is a new approach to fact-checking based on an “ass-backward way to back up a thesis”.

  3. sk said on January 6th, 2009 at 3:53pm #

    Oops, try this link instead of the one in last posting.

  4. bozh said on January 6th, 2009 at 4:12pm #

    alan dershowitz is telling the truth. IOF wants to and could easily kill thousands upon thousands of children and women.
    but since it has thus far slain just 200 children and women in gaza, it has shown restraint and proportionality, since a ‘jew’ even the black ‘jew’ is worth at least ten palestinians. thnx

  5. LanceThruster said on January 6th, 2009 at 5:08pm #

    IOF wants to and could easily kill thousands upon thousands of children and women.

    Thank goodness even they know that would be bad PR.

  6. Shabnam said on January 6th, 2009 at 5:35pm #

    Since a ‘jew’ even the black ‘jew’ is worth at least ten Palestinians.”
    I wish those who know nothing about Zionism be quiet, at least at this grave time where the Zionists war criminals are killing so many toddlers and children in stolen land of Palestine.
    http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2009/01/nyts-bronner-calls-them-islamist-rulers.html

    The fu**ing Zionists do not care about anything and anyone but power to dominate the world. We have seen what they have done to those ‘Jews’ who refused to be used as a propaganda tool. You should go and ask Ethiopian Jews to find out how ‘Jews’ are treated.
    Zionists are interested in puppets to expand their influence over the fools and establish ‘the greater Israel’ where is nothing but a big IRON CAGE. You should have listened to those poor German Jews who left Germany after WWII for the US and needed financial support from the rich Zionist Jews to survive in the US. They were all abandoned because they were not pro Zionist propaganda. ZIONISM is far more dangerous than FASCISM and until Zionism has not been totally and completely DESTROYED there is no PEACE on earth. Down with Zionism and its supporters. We never forget or forgive the massacre of children of Gaza. We do not want the war criminals in our region. THEY MUST GO TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM AND WE WILL MAKE SURE THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN IF THIS TAKES ANOTHER CENTURY. Obama Shame on you. You are nothing but a Zionist puppet that sent green light to this mass murderer allows toddlers in Gaza to be slaughtered. We want nothing but demise of the American power, the sooner the better. The world is a better place without war criminals.

    http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2009/01/ethan-bronner-today-described-them.html

  7. Myles Hoenig said on January 6th, 2009 at 7:31pm #

    It is disingenuous for Kucinich to state the above as he supported the Israeli invasion of Lebanon when courage was needed to stand up against it. Now he takes the side of those in Lebanon killed by the invading IDF?

  8. shamir said on January 6th, 2009 at 7:35pm #

    here is the story of a good zionist

    http://www.americanradicalthefilm.com

  9. The Angry Peasant said on January 6th, 2009 at 8:08pm #

    Myles,
    People learn in time. I don’t think too many people saw things clearly about Israel’s intentions back then. AIPAC didn’t even become a very powerful lobby until the mid-80’s. Now we have 30 years to look back and see the light about these zionist monsters. Kucinich was also pretty young. I can give him a break. After all, this is the only guy in Washington with the moral compass/guts to demand impeachment proceedings for Bush and Cheney.

  10. Hue Longer said on January 7th, 2009 at 1:08am #

    good ole Dennis…lending legitimacy to the Democratic party, hooray!

  11. Hue Longer said on January 7th, 2009 at 1:11am #

    I enjoyed the article but the editing was poor (I know the DV editors don’t make money and have day jobs)…The first part was confusing because the librarian said the same thing twice and the rest makes it hard to forward to other people who need to read this—it is very good and concise

  12. bozh said on January 7th, 2009 at 2:52am #

    shabnam,
    a black ‘jew’ of israel is, in the eyes of other israelis, worth more than any palestinian.
    but black , sephardic, and mizrahic ‘jews’ are, i understand, less valued by ashkenazic ‘jews’.

    but discrimination against or looking down on darker skinned people is quite strong and widespread in US also.
    the color tho plays a minnor role; main factors in discrimination appear to be education/income.

    at one time, egyptians, who were s’mwhat darker than hebrews, have held hebrews as inferior.
    rich whites look down on poorer whites. thnx for your input.

  13. Myles Hoenig said on January 7th, 2009 at 11:43am #

    Angry Peasant,
    Thank you for your response.
    I didn’t mean to infer that he opposed the 1982 invasion.
    It was the more recent invasion that he stood with 98% of Congress supporting the Israeli invasion.
    If it was early in his career, when AIPAC was young, it could be excusable.
    This time it isn’t. He knew better.
    Wasn’t that close to election time?

  14. The Angry Peasant said on January 8th, 2009 at 11:23am #

    Hmmm…I wasn’t aware he voted for it….

  15. Deadbeat said on January 8th, 2009 at 3:47pm #

    bozh writes …

    main factors in discrimination appear to be education/income.

    bozh, i don’t believe your response to Shabnam is supported by the facts. Studies have shown were well qualifed African Americans have been denied job opportunities that were offered to underqualified and yes convicted whites. Whites having similar education level achieve far more than Blacks due to white privilege and benefited from the past accumulation of capital.

    It seems that your reply to Shabnam is based on assumption and conjecture rather than the reality of how discrimination actually works in the U.S.

  16. bozh said on January 8th, 2009 at 4:21pm #

    deadbeat,
    i did say that lighter skinned people do look dwn on darker skinned people.
    am i mistaken in saying that educated people look dwn on uneducated people? as an aside i also say that ?all such people do not derive much if any happiness from it; happiness being a person’s greatest wealth along with health.
    am i mistaken about my conjecture that doctors, professors, clergy do not hobnob with working class or less educated people?
    i also suggest, as per egyptian example, that if darker skinned people such as sumerians, iranians, canaanites, egyptians, syrians, arabs remained more prosperous than us whites we wld have been looked dwn on.
    so prosperity along education is the main factor in feelings/thinking of supremacism. thnx for your comment.

  17. Steve Klein said on January 8th, 2009 at 4:39pm #

    What does Mr. Taylor have to do with Alan Dershowitz? Why can’t this writer get to the point. He goes on and on and on about Mr. Taylor.

    Come on! Get to the point.

  18. Steve Klein said on January 8th, 2009 at 4:44pm #

    Fact Check: On the contrary Hamas and every person over 7 years old of the 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza and everyone in Lebanon and Palestine know that Israel will for sure “fire at a home with civilians in it.” And also ambulances, convoys fleeing a war zone with prior UN and IDF approval and waving white flags, homes with only five children and their mother inside as they did in Nabysheet, Lebanon on July 19, 2006, destroying the family of my friend Abu Mohammad Chokr. History has shown that is what Israel does regularly and why it is increasingly a Pariah State>>>

    Hamas terrorists murder innocent civilians, both Jews and Palestinians. Hamas routinely murders Palestinian “collaborators.” Hamas murders Palestinians who sing at weddings. Hamas murders Palestinians who belong to rival Fatah terrorist gangs. Hamas has no mercy on innocent human life, Palestinian or Jewish life.

  19. Steve Klein said on January 8th, 2009 at 4:46pm #

    Fact Check: Israel never ended its occupation of Gaza. Following the 9/11/05 dismantlement of its illegal colony/settlements, Israel maintained nearly total control of Gaza’s borders, airspace, territorial waters (preventing most fishing), electricity, life-lines and economy, turning it into a sealed prison resembling the Warsaw Ghetto, according to UN Special Rapporteur, Richard Falk.>>>>

    By this same standard of measure, the United States occupies Cuba!

  20. Steve Klein said on January 8th, 2009 at 4:49pm #

    AD: “Israel goes to enormous lengths to reduce the number of civilian casualties — even to the point of foregoing legitimate targets that are too close to civilians.”

    Fact Check: Nonsense Professor. If the targets are “too close to civilians” such as their homes, schools, cars, places of worship, hospitals etc. they are by definition not legitimate. >>>>

    Were German civilians innocent? Why does Fact Check and Mr. Dershowitz assume Gaza’s civilians are innocent? Didn’t they elect these Hamas Nazi murderers to rule over them? Germans supported Adolf Hitler and the Nazis by and large. What is the difference?

  21. Steve Klein said on January 8th, 2009 at 4:56pm #

    Fact Check: Israel never ended its occupation of Gaza. Following the 9/11/05 dismantlement of its illegal colony/settlements, Israel maintained nearly total control of Gaza’s borders, airspace, territorial waters (preventing most fishing), electricity, life-lines and economy, turning it into a sealed prison resembling the Warsaw Ghetto, according to UN Special Rapporteur, Richard Falk.>>>>

    Whoops! Is Fact Check lying? I just did a google new search. Dissident Voice is the only site I can find the supports this contention that Richard Falk compared Israel’s treatment of Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto. Does Fact Check have a “factual” source?

  22. bozh said on January 8th, 2009 at 5:37pm #

    steve klein, remember the first tsunami that destroyed palestine and waves and waves or terror after that with a few ripples by palestinians.
    why recall that, when one can dwell on what somebody said or did not say or on details of miniscule value and that can’t or can be proven.
    ok, stop the silliness and dwell on that first wave and not on nth.
    i believe your not doing israelis any good by this ruse you’re using. or we will not read your posts. that is a promise.
    we’ve had enough of that from msm. thnx

  23. bozh said on January 8th, 2009 at 5:51pm #

    about gilad’s piece,
    finally, for the first time, a writer has, as far as know, quoted torahic commands to utterly slain animals and people of canaanitic city states.
    mind you, it may have not been carried out as torah later in judges speaks of jebusites living with benjamins in j’lem. so at least jebusites had not been slaughtered .
    now i wld very much like for gilad or another journalist to enlighten us about three disticnt peoples of judaic faith: ashkenazim, mizrahim, and sephardim.
    and also why call these peoples jews while they may not be jewish but european and arabian. ilan pappe thinks also that most mizrahim are moors or arabs. thnx

  24. Myles Hoenig said on January 8th, 2009 at 7:17pm #

    DV isn’t the only source tying Falk to comparison of the Warsaw Ghetto, as Mr. Klein suggests:

    Israel Is Foolishly Breeding the Next Generation of Islamic Militants in Gaza
    by Chris Hedges
    “It is macabre,” Falk said of the blockade. “I don’t know of anything that exactly fits this situation. People have been referring to the Warsaw ghetto as the nearest analog in modern times.”

    Atlantic Free Press: http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/news/1/7097-israel-is-foolishly-breeding-the-next-generation-of-islamic-militants-in-gaza-.html

  25. Myles Hoenig said on January 8th, 2009 at 7:20pm #

    I meant to say, “comparison of Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto.”

    But I think it was understood.

  26. Bard said on January 8th, 2009 at 9:01pm #

    Such is the nature of religious wars. Smart people don’t take sides, but only observe and take notes, expressing no opinion at all.

  27. Steve Klein said on January 9th, 2009 at 7:48am #

    How can anyone with any intellectual honesty compare Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto? Did the Nazis send humanitarian aid to the Jews in the ghetto? Did the Nazis supply electricity to the ghetto. Did they provide humanitarian aid and electricity as they slaughtered the mostly defenseless Jews in the ghetto? The Nazis entered the ghetto, slaughtering men, women and children. The Nazis left nothing that breathes in the ghetto. It is a preposterous comparison. It is an hideous comparison. It is an enormity to compare the two.

  28. Michael Hureaux said on January 9th, 2009 at 8:21am #

    “humanitarian aid’ in this context is a scam, and the complete victory of the colonizer’s mentality. The State of Israel has denied Palestine every form of self-determination or autonomy, and this of course extends to industry and agriculture. It is now destroying what little infrastructure they have left. Offering someone a peanut butter sandwich and a glass of milk after you’ve destroyed everything they own isn’t humanitarianism, it’s brutality hiding behind the mask of farce. Which is fine, so far as most liberals are concerned. But Zionism is the new face of Nazism, with some modifications and an occasional peanut butter sandwich to make white liberals feel better about what they have lent support to.

  29. mebosa ritchie said on January 9th, 2009 at 8:25am #

    i think we can all be confident that president obama will continue u.s support for israel

    “That effort begins with a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel: Our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy,” he added. “That will always be my starting point.”

    In what may have been a veiled reference to reports of American opposition to Israeli negotations with Syria, Obama said: “We should never seek to dictate what is best for the Israelis and their security interests. No Israeli prime minister should ever feel dragged to or blocked from the negotiating table by the United States.”

    The Illinois senator also called for continued American military assistance to Israel. “We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs,” he said.

  30. Steve Klein said on January 9th, 2009 at 8:26am #

    Time on line wrote: “As Israeli troops encircle Gaza City, their commanders are faced with a painful dilemma: How far must they advance into the deadly labyrinth of slums and refugee camps where Hamas militants await with booby-trapped houses and snipers? ”

    http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1870314,00.html

    This is what Moses wrote in the Torah; when the Jews disobeyed YHWH and we served other gods:

    Deu 28:53 “Then you shall eat the offspring of your own body, the flesh of your sons and of your daughters whom the LORD your God has given you, during the siege and the distress by which your enemy will oppress you. …

    This is what a military siege looked like in ancient times; not what is going on in Gaza today, whereby the Jews send in humanitarian aid under compulsion by the international community.

    The following is what Moses wrote or commanded the Jews. This is what Israel would do in Gaza were they faithful to YHWH:

    Deu 20:10 “When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace.

    “If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you.

    “However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it.

    “When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword.

    “Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you.

  31. Brian Koontz said on January 9th, 2009 at 8:32am #

    “How can anyone with any intellectual honesty compare Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto? Did the Nazis send humanitarian aid to the Jews in the ghetto? Did the Nazis supply electricity to the ghetto. Did they provide humanitarian aid and electricity as they slaughtered the mostly defenseless Jews in the ghetto? The Nazis entered the ghetto, slaughtering men, women and children. The Nazis left nothing that breathes in the ghetto. It is a preposterous comparison. It is an hideous comparison. It is an enormity to compare the two.”

    You bring up some interesting points. The Israelis are far more cruel insofar as they give some hope to the very people they plan to exterminate – they prolong their suffering. The Israelis are a far shadier, more cunning, more manipulative, version of the Nazis. Instead of quick gas chambers and firing squads (amid slower deaths), the Israelis are all about slow starvation and bombing.

    And the ambition! Instead of relatively small concentration camps, imagine turning the entire country into a concentration camp! Version 2.0 of the Nazis are “new and improved”.

    By transforming the Israeli/Palestinian state into a democracy, the world will create a reality by which there will most likely not be a Nazi 3.0.

    Israeli: “It’s not brutality if we kill them slowly”.

  32. mary said on January 9th, 2009 at 8:36am #

    Time for the trolls to dry up. You are becoming very boring (and repetitive).

    Hasbara spam alert
    With Israel’s foreign ministry organising volunteers to flood news websites with pro-Israeli comments, Propaganda 2.0 is here

    Richard Silverstein guardian.co.uk, Friday 9 January 2009 11.05 GMT

    The hasbara brigade strikes again!
    You always hear about Israeli attempts at media manipulation. Everyone knows it’s going on but usually the process happens through cyber insurgents like those involved with Giyus (and its media monitoring software, Megaphone). Now, we know that the Israeli foreign ministry itself is orchestrating propaganda efforts designed to flood news websites with pro-Israel arguments and information.

    /……….. continues

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/israel-foreign-ministry-media

  33. Steve Klein said on January 9th, 2009 at 9:23am #

    Brian Koontz said: “The Israelis are a far shadier, more cunning, more manipulative, version of the Nazis…..”

    Let’s translate Koontz’s eliminationist words for the average reader. “The Jew is a shady, cunning, , manipulative, subhuman version of the Nazis. The Jew possesses the lust of the Negro, the craftiness of the Mongol, and the criminal drives of all the races which have combined to produce his blood. If the Jews were alone in this world, they would suffocate as much in the dirt and filth, as they would carry on a detestable struggle to cheat and ruin each other.”

  34. bozh said on January 9th, 2009 at 10:14am #

    steve klein,
    i don’t want to talk about what a ‘jew’ is (the words under single quotes have false symbolic value); i only care what the israelis do.
    as i said already, gaza massacre makes old world order much clearer.
    some people still talk about neocons, but i call them samecons.
    most ‘jews’ have behaved since its first TSUNAMI of ’46 just like babylonians, asyrians, hebrews, ottomans, et al.
    but once a person sets out on one’s voyage into history since the latest tsunami against sderot, a palestinian town to boot, one can ‘prove’ israel is innocent; only defending self.
    besides, gazan crimes against sderot, may be described as ripple while israeli ‘response’ (now at least for a thousanth time) may be described as relatively large wave or a nini tsunami. thnx steve for prodding me to think.

  35. Steve Klein said on January 9th, 2009 at 10:19am #

    bozh, I am curious. What in what country do you claim citizenship?

  36. Steve Klein said on January 9th, 2009 at 10:20am #

    bozh,

    #2) Do you own any property?

  37. Steve Klein said on January 9th, 2009 at 10:38am #

    bozh: “besides, gazan crimes against sderot, may be described as ripple while israeli ‘response’ (now at least for a thousanth time) may be described as relatively large wave or a nini tsunami. thnx steve for prodding me to think…”

    What you are referring to here is this fallacy of “proportionality” in war. There is no such thing as a proportional war. Did the U.S. respond proportionately to Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor? Did the Allies respond proportionately to German atrocities in Poland, Rotterdam, Coventry, London, etc.? Did America respond proportionately to the 9/11 Muslim terror atrocities in New York and Washington?

  38. bozh said on January 9th, 2009 at 11:21am #

    steve,
    you have brought up an interesting puzzle.
    after 9/11 US had not responded; it had invaded a land that had not represented any peril of any kind whatsoever to even a single westerner.
    and to this day not a single pashtun had responded to western crimes against them.
    remember, and also for ‘jewish’ sake, that on eneeds to be accurate and advequate.
    when children throw rocks at the invaders and invaders ‘respond’ with bullets, maiming/killing some kids, that may be justified by saying, ah, well, that’s war; thus proportions in war don’t matter.
    being proportionate in war btw to more or less equally strong belligerents is a matter of dispute.
    it cannot be disputed when it comes to raids. raids by a fourth strongest army with. tanks, army, jets, gunship helis; with entire christian world on its side and against a strip of land totally blockaded and cut in three pieces and its people w.o. any defence.
    so, may be you are right, proportionality does not pertain at all.
    what israel should do is to at least do away with the blockade.
    also recall that the right bear arms or to defedn self are two universals which nato and israel rutinely violate.
    but we all know, that Israel can’t afford peace. it couln’t even in 18th, nor 19th, nor 20th, nor 21st century. thnx
    .

  39. Steve Klein said on January 9th, 2009 at 11:26am #

    bozh, let me try yet again.

    1) I am curious. What in what country do you claim citizenship?

    #2) Do you own any property?

    I will read and answer your response above. Thanks.

  40. Steve Klein said on January 9th, 2009 at 11:34am #

    bozh, you wrote: “after 9/11 US had not responded; it had invaded a land that had not represented any peril of any kind whatsoever to even a single westerner…and to this day not a single pashtun had responded to western crimes against them.”

    The point is, Osama bin Laden’s Al Qaeda / Taliban was the governing authority in Afghanistan. The U.S. had an address. International terrorism does not arise from thin air. The jihadists are not “suspended in thin air.” There are state sponsors. Without these state sponsors which provide territorial safe havens, intelligence, money and operational assistance, there would be no international terrorism.

    Are you suggesting, bin Laden and Al Qaeda had nothing to do with the 9/11 atrocities? If you are this much of a wacko, we have nothing (zero, nada) to discuss. Are you a whack job conspiracy theorist? Are you a 911 Truther or some other delusional whacked out conspiracy nut job?

  41. bozh said on January 9th, 2009 at 12:07pm #

    steve, i do not know what role osama had, if any, in 9/crime by arabs.
    but it cloud be presumed that 99.99% of taliban knew nothing of the plot to run with planes into the two towers.
    it is generally recognized that arabs joined afghans int heir struggle to oust usssr. US had aided them; they stayed after ussr had to withdraw.
    beyond this everything is avast unknown.
    even cia hadn’t yet found osama; ie, dosn’t know where he is. who am i to know? or may be cia knows but prefers to punish pashtuns collectively.
    it’s a old world order; anything is possible.

    about your question. i am a canadian citizen. my floks were partisan fighters against italins and germans. isabella an i have a house an dvery small income. thnx

    to be a terrorist all you need is just several people and a den in vancouver, london; you don’t need caves nor any govt to assist you.

  42. Steve Klein said on January 9th, 2009 at 12:25pm #

    Bozh, Osama was recorded on video boasting that the 9/11 atrocities exceeded their wildest imagination, though as an engineer this spectacular operation was very well-planned and executed. You saying 99.99% of Taliban / Al Qaeda knew nothing of the plot would be akin to saying 99.99% of the Nazi leadership knew nothing of the Final Solution. Whether or not 99.99% of the Nazi leadership was in the dark is not relevant. Neither is it relevant that 99.99% of these genocidal killers that you defend knew or know nothing. The point is, you defend genocidal monsters, plain and simple.

    Beyond that, I find it ironic that you live in Canada. I live in north America. Here we are Bozh, living in two nations that ethnically cleansed, murdered and despoliated native peoples, an you dare fault Israel? The Jews returned to their historic / Biblical homeland. What excuse do you have displacing a native people? How do you, a Canadian interloper, dare lecture the Israelites, who only returned to their ancient homeland! You are the descendant of criminal interlopers — you are living / squatting on native people’s land; give it back you low life thief! — and you dare find fault with the Jews?

  43. bozh said on January 9th, 2009 at 12:46pm #

    nazi leadersship knew of the plot to exterminate ‘jews’ who were not of judean decent; so you comparison is a quite a stretch. nazis made mistake of confusing germans, poles, russians, khazars with ancient hebrews or judeans.
    ther is no question about the fact that europeans have stolen land from and been brutal to red people.
    but you people are even worse than us. but had i known about what went on in americas when i was 20 yers old, i wolud have never come to canada.
    i am ashamed of europeans even tho i have written many times to media and canadian govts about injustices done to this people.
    ‘jews’ are engaged in perpetuating old world order. thnx

  44. Steve Klein said on January 9th, 2009 at 12:57pm #

    but you people are even worse than us. but had i known about what went on in Americas when i was 20 years old, i would have never come to Canada…”

    No. Israel is not worse than White European invaders of north America. No way. Maybe you’ve not studied Andrew Jackson and his Indian wars. Maybe you do not know about our 1830 Congressional Indian Removal Act, whereby all the civilize tribes, the Cherokee, the Chickasaw, Choctaw , Seminole and Creek Indians were forcibly removed west of the Mississippi River. Maybe you’ve not heard of the Trail of Tears. Maybe you’ve never read about “Manifest Destiny,” or America’s war against Mexico for Texas, California, New Mexico, Nevada. Every hear of the Gold Rush? You haven’t a clue if you think Israel is worse than what the White European criminals did to the natives. I cannot believe you are writing this!

  45. Steve Klein said on January 9th, 2009 at 12:58pm #

    us. but had i known about what went on in Americas when i was 20 years old, i would have never come to Canada>>>

    Where did you originate then? From where did your family come to Canada?

  46. Allah's Apostle said on January 19th, 2009 at 1:27am #

    Israel deserves to live in peace. Israel is a peaceful and democratic nation. The rocket attacks on innocent Israelis must cease at once. Hamas must be dismantled forever. They should no longer be allowed to propagate hatred and kill innocent people.

    What is more is that Hamas and its sister organizations hurt the chances for a viable, peaceful Palestinian state next to Israel.

    Anyway, Israel will stand forever. It is a shinning beacon of light and hope for the entire world.

  47. David said on January 20th, 2009 at 10:32am #

    Surly he jests. Israel is perhaps the last colonial enterprise from the 20th century. It is not peaceful nor democratic but rather racist, aggressive, terrorist, and will fade into oblivion…..as did its brother, the 3rd Reich…..

  48. Intelligenzquotient said on July 13th, 2009 at 11:51am #

    This brings me to an idea:…