Comments on: Bernard Madoff: Wall Street Swindler Strikes Powerful Blows for Social Justice http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Sun, 22 Nov 2009 13:03:40 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Daro http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-40266 Daro Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:37:46 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-40266 Madoff will die in his sleep of heart failure 5 years from now while still under palatial house arrest during his endless appeal. His sons will be quietly slip away to join the supra wealthy in Florida driving round and round in their Bugattis and Ferraris. His grandchildren will be born direct to the jetset society, so wealthy they never discuss money. This is what will happen, we should regretfully acknowledge. Justice delayed is justice denied. Madoff will die in his sleep of heart failure 5 years from now while still under palatial house arrest during his endless appeal. His sons will be quietly slip away to join the supra wealthy in Florida driving round and round in their Bugattis and Ferraris. His grandchildren will be born direct to the jetset society, so wealthy they never discuss money. This is what will happen, we should regretfully acknowledge. Justice delayed is justice denied.

]]> By: rh http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-38959 rh Wed, 18 Feb 2009 06:08:16 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-38959 Previously we had EndRun, Global Cursing and WorldCon (Enron, Global Crossing and WorldCom). So this batch of capitalists come from the swindlers list. What Bernie did was simply what any capitalist would do or should do. According to American Right Wing Capitalist Ethos making money by hook or by crook or both is to be admired. Zell started off sellying playboy to his school mates. This was reported in an admiring article in University of Michigan's fawning article on Mr. Zell. Morality has nothing to do with chosen business. You make money any way even if it corrupting children or stealing from friends. rh Previously we had EndRun, Global Cursing and WorldCon (Enron, Global Crossing and WorldCom). So this batch of capitalists come from the swindlers list.

What Bernie did was simply what any capitalist would do or should do. According to American Right Wing Capitalist Ethos making money by hook or by crook or both is to be admired. Zell started off sellying playboy to his school mates. This was reported in an admiring article in University of Michigan’s fawning article on Mr. Zell. Morality has nothing to do with chosen business. You make money any way even if it corrupting children or stealing from friends.
rh

]]> By: bARABie http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34274 bARABie Tue, 23 Dec 2008 19:46:05 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34274 "No one can believe that a single person could by himself pull off a scam of this size and duration. Nor can any serious investigator believe that $50 billion dollars has simply ‘disappeared’ or been squirreled into personal accounts." "Point number nine is that Madoff struck a severe blow against anti-Semites who claim that there is a ‘close-knit Jewish conspiracy to defraud the Gentiles’, laying that canard to rest once and for all." Geez Mr Petras, wonder where that money went if not israhell.... Secondly, MOST of the "victims" of this "Robin Hood" (using petras' term) were NOT Jewish. Which, in fact, means "laying that canard to rest once and for all" (sic) is a gross manipulation of facts by petras. Another point is you mentioning something as ludicrous is the following and why would you state something so preposterous? "Some right-wing conspiracy theorists are claiming that Bernie is a secret Islamic-Palestinian agent (from Hamas) who set out to deliberately undermine the financial base of the Jewish State of Israel" “No one can believe that a single person could by himself pull off a scam of this size and duration. Nor can any serious investigator believe that $50 billion dollars has simply ‘disappeared’ or been squirreled into personal accounts.”

“Point number nine is that Madoff struck a severe blow against anti-Semites who claim that there is a ‘close-knit Jewish conspiracy to defraud the Gentiles’, laying that canard to rest once and for all.”

Geez Mr Petras, wonder where that money went if not israhell….
Secondly, MOST of the “victims” of this “Robin Hood” (using petras’ term) were NOT Jewish. Which, in fact, means “laying that canard to rest once and for all” (sic) is a gross manipulation of facts by petras.

Another point is you mentioning something as ludicrous is the following and why would you state something so preposterous?

“Some right-wing conspiracy theorists are claiming that Bernie is a secret Islamic-Palestinian agent (from Hamas) who set out to deliberately undermine the financial base of the Jewish State of Israel”

]]> By: jim quinn http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34204 jim quinn Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:23:56 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34204 Great article, one of the clearest and best on the economy I've ever read. Two things: One: Where is the money? There never was any money. When you have a billion or a measly 100 million, you don't have dollar bills, you have people who believe you have money. That is, you have credit. When you want to buy something you notify one of the many places you have credit with and they send you a note signifying they've transferred some of your credit to the owner of the french villa you want to buy. The owner doesn't get money, he gets a note that says so much credit is available, and probably invests it quickly - so as not to lose money - in a market account which buys stock possibly in the company you own or the one that has your so-called money. nobody ever sees a nickel, which is not worth a nickel in money any more than a paper dollar or dollar coin is worth a penny - which is of course not worth a cent. Hard cash only has value because the federal government says it has value and we believe our allwise allpowerful government. The money could not have been shipped to israel in truck pallets, because it never was. Foundations and individuals cheated out of their credit by madoff of course do not want to reveal by how much -- it would ruin their credit. General Motors is not in danger of bankruptcy because it has no dollar bills but because nobody - except the so-called capitalist economists in charge of the bailout - is willing to lend it money, by which i mean of course credit. Credit is collapsing in our economy, that happens periodically in capitalism. When it does people start losing belief in the people who tell them they have money -- they want a check to invest elsewhere -- and when they can't get it credit collapses further. nobody is poorer, everybody believes everybody is poorer -- therefore everybody is poorer. economists are advising people to put their credit in government bonds, which are good only as long as everybody believes in the government. Since bond returns have recently fallen to zero, you may be tempted to put dollars - which many think of as real money - under your mattress. remember tho that dollars only have value, that is credit, as long as everybody believes in the government. so unless you have enough money to buy gold bars and can pay the exorbitant amount it takes to store them safely -- there's nothing to do. two: surely madoff and the madoff economy - read krugman on the madoff economy - demonstrate that capitalism sounds wonderful in theory, and therefore attracts many idealists. But unfortunately it doesn't work in practice. There were depressions - collapses of credit -- all through the 19 c, and up to the amazing world wide depression in the 1920's -30's. FDR's New Deal put many restraints on wall st greed, and world war II and the devastation of europe made america rich. the first thing the new rich did was attack the very regulations that got the world out of depression, and because they had the money that the regulations allowed them to acquire - of course they eventually succeeded. Contributons to politicians not usually called bribery, always work. so money greed must rise again. it is, despite the idle dreams of feelgood champions of competition, and new capitalism, new economy, new this and that, impossible to outlaw human greed. Pass a law against greedy, and the greedy, greediest first, will find ways to get around it. See the USA banking system and Wall St for proof. Capitalism can never work. The only thing to do about human greed is make sure nobody can make money out of it. Fame and a life of ease are also rewards. Set a low maximum possible income with a hundred percent tax of anything over say, 100 thousand per year, written into the constitution so it can't be easily overturned, and we might get another 60 years before the next crash. Tho when income is low politicians will be ever more cheaply bribable. Eventually the greediest will find a way to make money, that is credit, the only reward. So the only real solution is socialism, and the only real socialism is, as was pointed out as long ago as 19 c -- from each according to his abilities, to each according to their needs. Yours for a refounded communist party, jim quinn Great article, one of the clearest and best on the economy I’ve ever read. Two things:
One: Where is the money? There never was any money. When you have a billion or a measly 100 million, you don’t have dollar bills, you have people who believe you have money. That is, you have credit. When you want to buy something you notify one of the many places you have credit with and they send you a note signifying they’ve transferred some of your credit to the owner of the french villa you want to buy. The owner doesn’t get money, he gets a note that says so much credit is available, and probably invests it quickly – so as not to lose money – in a market account which buys stock possibly in the company you own or the one that has your so-called money. nobody ever sees a nickel, which is not worth a nickel in money any more than a paper dollar or dollar coin is worth a penny – which is of course not worth a cent. Hard cash only has value because the federal government says it has value and we believe our allwise allpowerful government. The money could not have been shipped to israel in truck pallets, because it never was. Foundations and individuals cheated out of their credit by madoff of course do not want to reveal by how much — it would ruin their credit.

General Motors is not in danger of bankruptcy because it has no dollar bills but because nobody – except the so-called capitalist economists in charge of the bailout – is willing to lend it money, by which i mean of course credit. Credit is collapsing in our economy, that happens periodically in capitalism. When it does people start losing belief in the people who tell them they have money — they want a check to invest elsewhere — and when they can’t get it credit collapses further. nobody is poorer, everybody believes everybody is poorer — therefore everybody is poorer.
economists are advising people to put their credit in government bonds, which are good only as long as everybody believes in the government. Since bond returns have recently fallen to zero, you may be tempted to put dollars – which many think of as real money – under your mattress. remember tho that dollars only have value, that is credit, as long as everybody believes in the government.
so unless you have enough money to buy gold bars and can pay the exorbitant amount it takes to store them safely — there’s nothing to do.
two: surely madoff and the madoff economy – read krugman on the madoff economy – demonstrate that capitalism sounds wonderful in theory, and therefore attracts many idealists. But unfortunately it doesn’t work in practice.
There were depressions – collapses of credit — all through the 19 c, and up to the amazing world wide depression in the 1920’s -30’s. FDR’s New Deal put many restraints on wall st greed, and world war II and the devastation of europe made america rich. the first thing the new rich did was attack the very regulations that got the world out of depression, and because they had the money that the regulations allowed them to acquire – of course they eventually succeeded. Contributons to politicians not usually called bribery, always work.
so money greed must rise again.
it is, despite the idle dreams of feelgood champions of competition, and new capitalism, new economy, new this and that, impossible to outlaw human greed. Pass a law against greedy, and the greedy, greediest first, will find ways to get around it. See the USA banking system and Wall St for proof. Capitalism can never work.
The only thing to do about human greed is make sure nobody can make money out of it. Fame and a life of ease are also rewards. Set a low maximum possible income with a hundred percent tax of anything over say, 100 thousand per year, written into the constitution so it can’t be easily overturned, and we might get another 60 years before the next crash. Tho when income is low politicians will be ever more cheaply bribable. Eventually the greediest will find a way to make money, that is credit, the only reward.
So the only real solution is socialism, and the only real socialism is, as was pointed out as long ago as 19 c — from each according to his abilities, to each according to their needs.
Yours for a refounded communist party, jim quinn

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34155 Don Hawkins Sun, 21 Dec 2008 20:21:09 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34155 It is what it is. So you read that did you deadbeat. Those words were some of the most important ever written. I always say this is the best when Hansen writes a new one and it is. He learns as he goes along it's called wisdom and using knowledge. As far as looking at the World, Earth this changes the whole way of looking at well you name it and we need a new way of thinking. That is the part many don't want you to find out. My house cost me $75,000 it is 750 square feet but I do drink green tea and buy my paints at Fred's $12 a copy. I did have some money saved but gave most of that to my kids it's Ok. Oh I paid cash for my House thanks in part to Mike Whitney and his words and I must say enjoy watching the talking heads on TV it makes me feel smart. but you were talking about a way of thinking and being an elitist. Interesting concept me being an elitist as in my comments I always put so called elitists. Forest for the trees man forest for the trees. It is what it is. So you read that did you deadbeat. Those words were some of the most important ever written. I always say this is the best when Hansen writes a new one and it is. He learns as he goes along it’s called wisdom and using knowledge. As far as looking at the World, Earth this changes the whole way of looking at well you name it and we need a new way of thinking. That is the part many don’t want you to find out. My house cost me $75,000 it is 750 square feet but I do drink green tea and buy my paints at Fred’s $12 a copy. I did have some money saved but gave most of that to my kids it’s Ok. Oh I paid cash for my House thanks in part to Mike Whitney and his words and I must say enjoy watching the talking heads on TV it makes me feel smart. but you were talking about a way of thinking and being an elitist. Interesting concept me being an elitist as in my comments I always put so called elitists. Forest for the trees man forest for the trees.

]]> By: Deadbeat http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34145 Deadbeat Sun, 21 Dec 2008 18:59:19 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34145 <i>But the human-made rate of change is today about 2 ppm per year, about ten thousand times greater than the natural rate.</i> This seem a bit off-topic to me but I disagree with the premise of the "human-made" causing these problems. This assumes that what has been "human-made" was made democratically and not constructed from systemic oppression. I don't blame "humans" for such systemic oppression. The problem is capitalism and the concentration of power by the elites. The rhetoric that Mr. Hawkins' post while interesting tends to homogenize the issue of disproportionate power. It is similar to the rhetoric who hear from Israeli apologist that attempts to homogenize Palestinian resistance against Israeli brutality. The two are unequal. Are the world's impoverished equally as culpable as the world's wealthiest? Are they not "human"? That is what is implied by Mr. Hawkins' rhetoric. Therefore Mr. Hawkins rhetoric is rather elitist and alienates the very people he needs to change the system. What is known as "environmentalism" cannot offer any fundamental change because it is the politics of the upper middle class "snobs" and cannot generate a mass movement. A much better way to advance "environmentalism" is to ally with the poor and people of color and fight alongside against capitalism and for issue of justice. It is capitalism that is degrading the environment not "humans". I would suggest that Mr. Hawkins please abandon his of rhetoric and leave it for the likes of Al Gore. But the human-made rate of change is today about 2 ppm per year, about ten thousand times greater than the natural rate.

This seem a bit off-topic to me but I disagree with the premise of the “human-made” causing these problems. This assumes that what has been “human-made” was made democratically and not constructed from systemic oppression. I don’t blame “humans” for such systemic oppression. The problem is capitalism and the concentration of power by the elites.

The rhetoric that Mr. Hawkins’ post while interesting tends to homogenize the issue of disproportionate power. It is similar to the rhetoric who hear from Israeli apologist that attempts to homogenize Palestinian resistance against Israeli brutality. The two are unequal. Are the world’s impoverished equally as culpable as the world’s wealthiest? Are they not “human”? That is what is implied by Mr. Hawkins’ rhetoric.

Therefore Mr. Hawkins rhetoric is rather elitist and alienates the very people he needs to change the system. What is known as “environmentalism” cannot offer any fundamental change because it is the politics of the upper middle class “snobs” and cannot generate a mass movement.

A much better way to advance “environmentalism” is to ally with the poor and people of color and fight alongside against capitalism and for issue of justice. It is capitalism that is degrading the environment not “humans”.

I would suggest that Mr. Hawkins please abandon his of rhetoric and leave it for the likes of Al Gore.

]]> By: Don Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34131 Don Hawkins Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:05:29 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34131 The only way we are going to be able to figure this out is to get the right observations. First of all that means better observations of ocean heat content, including the deep ocean. Second we must measure aerosols with the required accuracy, which none of the current satellite instruments have. The instrument that can measure stratospheric aerosol properties with great accuracy is sitting on a shelf at Langley Research Center. When the NASA Administrator and the White House eliminated the first line of the NASA Mission Statement, “to understand and protect the home planet”, and slashed the Earth Science budget, there are consequences. There are plans to measure tropospheric aerosols with the needed accuracy for the first time with the Glory mission in 2009, but no follow on measurements are on the books. But the human-made rate of change is today about 2 ppm per year, about ten thousand times greater than the natural rate. So the assertion that we should not be concerned about human-made climate change, because there have been much larger natural climate changes is nonsense. There have been larger changes, but on very long time There may have been times in the Earth’s history when CO2 was as high as 4000 ppm without causing a runaway greenhouse effect. But the solar irradiance was less at that time. What is different about the human-made forcing is the rapidity at which we are increasing it, on the time scale of a century or a few centuries. It does not provide enough time for negative feedbacks, such as changes in the weathering rate, to be a major factor. There is also a danger that humans could cause the release of methane hydrates, perhaps more rapidly than in some of the cases in the geologic record. In my opinion, if we burn all the coal, there is a good chance that we will initiate the runaway greenhouse effect. If we also burn the tar sands and tar shale (a.k.a. oil shale), I think it is a dead certainty. http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/ This is James Hansen's web site read his last post dated Dec 20, 2008. Then ask yourself one question who will win this as so far nobody. Although Madoff helped a little. The only way we are going to be able to figure this out is to get the right observations.
First of all that means better observations of ocean heat content, including the deep ocean.
Second we must measure aerosols with the required accuracy, which none of the current satellite instruments have.
The instrument that can measure stratospheric aerosol properties with great accuracy is sitting on a shelf at Langley Research Center.
When the NASA Administrator and the White House eliminated the first line of the NASA Mission Statement, “to understand and protect the home planet”, and slashed the Earth Science budget, there are consequences.
There are plans to measure tropospheric aerosols with the needed accuracy for the first time with the Glory mission in 2009, but no follow on measurements are on the books.

But the human-made rate of change is today about 2 ppm per year, about ten thousand times greater than the natural rate.
So the assertion that we should not be concerned about human-made climate change, because there have been much larger natural climate changes is nonsense. There have been larger changes, but on very long time

There may have been times in the Earth’s history when CO2 was as high as 4000 ppm without causing a runaway greenhouse effect. But the solar irradiance was less at that time.
What is different about the human-made forcing is the rapidity at which we are increasing it, on the time scale of a century or a few centuries. It does not provide enough time for negative feedbacks, such as changes in the weathering rate, to be a major factor.
There is also a danger that humans could cause the release of methane hydrates, perhaps more rapidly than in some of the cases in the geologic record.
In my opinion, if we burn all the coal, there is a good chance that we will initiate the runaway greenhouse effect. If we also burn the tar sands and tar shale (a.k.a. oil shale), I think it is a dead certainty.

http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/ This is James Hansen’s web site read his last post dated Dec 20, 2008. Then ask yourself one question who will win this as so far nobody. Although Madoff helped a little.

]]> By: FarmerBillFromMissouri http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34127 FarmerBillFromMissouri Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:46:10 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34127 Concerning JL's suspicion that the money was moved to Israel to avoid US taxes, I've run across this theory before on the net. My gut feel is that this is a clever fabrication, ala the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. However, the thing about Jews doing anything to avoid paying U.S. taxes resonates. I remember back in the sixties and seventies, there was a wealthy St. Louis Attorney, Morris Shenker, who was the financial brains for the Teamsters. Shenker was notorious was not paying U.S. taxes. He knew every dodge there was to avoid it(kind of like the neocons who promoted the Iraq invasion and continue to promote today, but made sure none of their flesh and blood every stood in harm's way). However, he was honored in the Jewish community and was the chairman of the Israel war bond drive in St. Louis, and was known for his generous contributions. At that time I was young and naive and didn't know anything about 'Israel Firsters' but after being exposed to the shameless behavior of people like Joe Lieberman and Madoff and their ilk, I came to realize there are a substantial number of Jews who place first loyalty to Israel and wouldn't be surprised if some of the money mysteriously ends up in Israel. Concerning JL’s suspicion that the money was moved to Israel to avoid US taxes, I’ve run across this theory before on the net. My gut feel is that this is a clever fabrication, ala the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. However, the thing about Jews doing anything to avoid paying U.S. taxes resonates. I remember back in the sixties and seventies, there was a wealthy St. Louis Attorney, Morris Shenker, who was the financial brains for the Teamsters. Shenker was notorious was not paying U.S. taxes. He knew every dodge there was to avoid it(kind of like the neocons who promoted the Iraq invasion and continue to promote today, but made sure none of their flesh and blood every stood in harm’s way). However, he was honored in the Jewish community and was the chairman of the Israel war bond drive in St. Louis, and was known for his generous contributions. At that time I was young and naive and didn’t know anything about ‘Israel Firsters’ but after being exposed to the shameless behavior of people like Joe Lieberman and Madoff and their ilk, I came to realize there are a substantial number of Jews who place first loyalty to Israel and wouldn’t be surprised if some of the money mysteriously ends up in Israel.

]]> By: Danny Ray http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34124 Danny Ray Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:16:08 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34124 JASON HERE IS THE INFORMATION YOU NEED . Cuban Interests Section Cuban Consulate 2639 16th St, NW Washington, DC 20009 202 797-8518, 8519, 20 Fax: 202 797-8521 email: cubaseccion@igc.apc.org (may not work) 2630 16th St, NW Washington, DC 20009 202 797-8609, 8610, 15 Fax: 202 986-7283 THEY KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH GREEDY BUISNESS MEN THERE SORRY EVERY ONE I AM NOT SHOUTING MY KEYBOARD HAS STUCK JASON HERE IS THE INFORMATION YOU NEED .

Cuban Interests Section Cuban Consulate
2639 16th St, NW
Washington, DC 20009
202 797-8518, 8519, 20

Fax: 202 797-8521
email: cubaseccion@igc.apc.org
(may not work)
2630 16th St, NW
Washington, DC 20009
202 797-8609, 8610, 15

Fax: 202 986-7283

THEY KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH GREEDY BUISNESS MEN THERE

SORRY EVERY ONE I AM NOT SHOUTING MY KEYBOARD HAS STUCK

]]> By: Jerry Lavish http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34119 Jerry Lavish Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:04:03 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34119 Where is the money? How can 50 billion dollars just simply disappear? I'm not buying it. I enjoyed reading Petras' article and wish all his 11 points were true. However, given Berie's ties to the Jewish community, Israel, and Zionism I can't help suspect Bernie moved all that cash to Israel. A move designed to prevent their seizure by U.S. government because of tax fraud. The Wilpons and Speilbergs of America know their money is in safe keeping in Israeli banks. To believe that Bernie is a supporter of the Palestinian cause, or better yet a Marxist is sheer nonsense. As deep throat said; "follow the money." Where did the money go? It's a shell game of the greatest proportions Where is the money? How can 50 billion dollars just simply disappear?
I’m not buying it.
I enjoyed reading Petras’ article and wish all his 11 points were true. However, given Berie’s ties to the Jewish community, Israel, and Zionism I can’t help suspect Bernie moved all that cash to Israel. A move designed to prevent their seizure by U.S. government because of tax fraud.
The Wilpons and Speilbergs of America know their money is in safe keeping in Israeli banks.
To believe that Bernie is a supporter of the Palestinian cause, or better yet a Marxist is sheer nonsense. As deep throat said; “follow the money.”
Where did the money go? It’s a shell game of the greatest proportions

]]> By: Ramsefall http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34118 Ramsefall Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:57:04 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34118 Jason, in response to, "I’m sick of living in a system that tolerates this kind of behavior", pack your bags and head expat, see what the rest of the world has to offer, you just may likely end up feeling better. Best to you. Jason,

in response to, “I’m sick of living in a system that tolerates this kind of behavior”, pack your bags and head expat, see what the rest of the world has to offer, you just may likely end up feeling better.

Best to you.

]]> By: Jason Oberg http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34114 Jason Oberg Sun, 21 Dec 2008 07:28:53 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34114 You know, I realize I have a tendency to stray from the specific topic and delve into broader implications, but...Jesus H. Christ, how many more of these sleazy bastard's stories are we going to hear about? Ever since Enron, it has literally been an explosion of CEOs being discovered to be soulless criminals! Is it just me, or is capitalism perhaps simply too corruptable to work? How many pensions, how many jobs, how many tax dollars have been lost due to the astronomical greed of a few evil men? And yet America just sits back and continues to say, "It's a good system. It's the 'American Dream.'" What bullshit. I'm sick of living in a system that tolerates this kind of behavior, never mind one that thinks one fat, middle-aged man should have more money, comfort and stability than 100 million of his countrymen, because he knew how to milk everyone he ever came into contact with. Why is this an admirable way of life? Why are fairness, humanity, and sensibility so readily dismissed? Why? You know, I realize I have a tendency to stray from the specific topic and delve into broader implications, but…Jesus H. Christ, how many more of these sleazy bastard’s stories are we going to hear about? Ever since Enron, it has literally been an explosion of CEOs being discovered to be soulless criminals! Is it just me, or is capitalism perhaps simply too corruptable to work? How many pensions, how many jobs, how many tax dollars have been lost due to the astronomical greed of a few evil men? And yet America just sits back and continues to say, “It’s a good system. It’s the ‘American Dream.’” What bullshit. I’m sick of living in a system that tolerates this kind of behavior, never mind one that thinks one fat, middle-aged man should have more money, comfort and stability than 100 million of his countrymen, because he knew how to milk everyone he ever came into contact with. Why is this an admirable way of life? Why are fairness, humanity, and sensibility so readily dismissed? Why?

]]> By: Deadbeat http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34100 Deadbeat Sun, 21 Dec 2008 04:48:23 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34100 Petras once again speaks the truth. He's right when he says that Madoff has done more than the Left in confronting Zionism. How ironic. Petras once again speaks the truth. He’s right when he says that Madoff has done more than the Left in confronting Zionism. How ironic.

]]> By: giorgio http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34097 giorgio Sun, 21 Dec 2008 02:04:33 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34097 "....conspiracy theorists are claiming that Bernie is a secret Islamic-Palestinian agent (from Hamas) who set out to deliberately undermine the financial base of the Jewish State of Israel and its most powerful, affluent and generous US backers and foundations..." Well, if this is true, may Allah wisk him up to Heaven soon and treat him to an orgy of 1000 virgins... "…does anyone know where the lost billions have gone?" Well, I'll take an easy guess: the billions are now sitting on Osama bin Laden's banking account. Brace yourselves guys! Another 9/11 attack is just around the corner.... Alex Cockburn of Counterpunch, in his article "Ethnic Cleansing in America" is hoping that Steve Spielberg, one of those stung by Madoff, gets around to making a movie. A title already being bandied about is: Swindler’s List. Cockburn seems to have taken over Madoff 's business. He strongly recommends that Americans buy "Wheelbarrow stocks". Buy ‘em while the price is right, so says he... and I have no reason not to trust this guy implicitly, be it his literary or financial judgements... “….conspiracy theorists are claiming that Bernie is a secret Islamic-Palestinian agent (from Hamas) who set out to deliberately undermine the financial base of the Jewish State of Israel and its most powerful, affluent and generous US backers and foundations…”

Well, if this is true, may Allah wisk him up to Heaven soon and treat him to an orgy of 1000 virgins…

“…does anyone know where the lost billions have gone?”

Well, I’ll take an easy guess: the billions are now sitting on Osama bin Laden’s banking account. Brace yourselves guys! Another 9/11 attack is just around the corner….

Alex Cockburn of Counterpunch, in his article “Ethnic Cleansing in America” is hoping that Steve Spielberg, one of those stung by Madoff, gets around to making a movie. A title already being bandied about is: Swindler’s List.

Cockburn seems to have taken over Madoff ’s business. He strongly recommends that Americans buy “Wheelbarrow stocks”. Buy ‘em while the price is right, so says he… and I have no reason not to trust this guy implicitly, be it his literary or financial judgements…

]]> By: MrCynic3 http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34093 MrCynic3 Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:57:31 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34093 O.K. Madoff swindled 50 billions dollars. Where is the money?.!! In any ponzi scam some of the money is left with the scamer. That is the objective of the scam. So, where the money.?!! Could it be just a hedge fund collapse that was alleged to be a Ponzi scam for better legal angel toward getting compensations and keep some remnants of credibility in the hedge funds. The whole thing does not smell right to me. In my humble opinion there is more to this story than meets the eye. O.K. Madoff swindled 50 billions dollars. Where is the money?.!!
In any ponzi scam some of the money is left with the scamer. That
is the objective of the scam. So, where the money.?!!
Could it be just a hedge fund collapse that was alleged to be a Ponzi
scam for better legal angel toward getting compensations and keep
some remnants of credibility in the hedge funds.
The whole thing does not smell right to me. In my humble opinion
there is more to this story than meets the eye.

]]> By: john wilkinson http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34088 john wilkinson Sat, 20 Dec 2008 21:25:01 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34088 For once, FOR ONCE, a piece by Petras that I could agree with to a certain extent, though the case is hugely overstated. Yes I love it that these rich assholes who have, over the years, scammed many of us out of our life savings and totally ruined this country (this world) and its future, have been scammed and denuded themselves. Unfortunately, $50 billion is not nearly enough retribution. If it were, say, $50 trillion then I could be jumping for joy that some real damage had been done. But $50 billion is a drop in the bucket -- yes some of them got ruined, but overall it's just a pinprick, order of magnitude wise. So while I agree there was some damage, it was in my opinion only a minor leveling and a minor comeuppance. These people know that the whole system is one giant fraud -- and they know it because they are the ones profiting from it; and the "it's not what you know but who you know" is part and parcel of the in-bred wholesale rot and corruption. So in the end, it will be business as usual, because that's how these cockroaches get on top -- scamming the rest of us, rigging oversight and regulation, stealing our taxes and putting them in their pockets. As someone has said, behind a great wealth there is usually a great fraud. For once, FOR ONCE, a piece by Petras that I could agree with to a certain extent, though the case is hugely overstated. Yes I love it that these rich assholes who have, over the years, scammed many of us out of our life savings and totally ruined this country (this world) and its future, have been scammed and denuded themselves.

Unfortunately, $50 billion is not nearly enough retribution. If it were, say, $50 trillion then I could be jumping for joy that some real damage had been done. But $50 billion is a drop in the bucket — yes some of them got ruined, but overall it’s just a pinprick, order of magnitude wise.

So while I agree there was some damage, it was in my opinion only a minor leveling and a minor comeuppance. These people know that the whole system is one giant fraud — and they know it because they are the ones profiting from it; and the “it’s not what you know but who you know” is part and parcel of the in-bred wholesale rot and corruption. So in the end, it will be business as usual, because that’s how these cockroaches get on top — scamming the rest of us, rigging oversight and regulation, stealing our taxes and putting them in their pockets. As someone has said, behind a great wealth there is usually a great fraud.

]]> By: rg the lg http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34079 rg the lg Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:05:37 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34079 Whoa ... aren't these the same people who like special insurance companies and banks, the auto-industry TOO BIG TO FAIL? Don't we really expect a bailout for them? I, for one, won't be surprised. That is, after all, what our system is for RG the LG Whoa … aren’t these the same people who like special insurance companies and banks, the auto-industry TOO BIG TO FAIL? Don’t we really expect a bailout for them?

I, for one, won’t be surprised. That is, after all, what our system is for

RG the LG

]]> By: bozh http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34071 bozh Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:13:13 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34071 now that some people have become hobos, they can always get their jesus. and what more does one need? we all know that priests know everything. and the priests will tell them that this happened to rich and superrich people, because they didn't have jesus in thei r lives. so things turned out for the best after all. thnx now that some people have become hobos, they can always get their jesus.
and what more does one need? we all know that priests know everything. and the priests will tell them that this happened to rich and superrich people, because they didn’t have jesus in thei r lives.
so things turned out for the best after all. thnx

]]> By: Tree http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/12/bernard-madoff-wall-street-swindler-strikes-powerful-blows-for-social-justice/#comment-34069 Tree Sat, 20 Dec 2008 16:39:25 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=5500#comment-34069 Great piece. Great piece.

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