ANGRY, DYSFUNCTIONAL, CHILDLESS WOMEN FOR PEACE!!!!!

Anyone interested???

Peace, Rachel Golem

analyzing obama and his campaign is to me promoting cult of the personality.

I understand your point bozh and respect it. I think analyzing the Obama campaign help the Left understand how to formulate a response.

i don’t think uncle sam is concerned ab the Left. how cld he w. 100mn rabid amers and another 100mn meek amers supporting and praising him.

So long as the Left remains disjointed, incoherent and reactionary rather than have a solid and organized plan to build solidarity and strength, then I have to agree with you bozh, Uncle Sam has absolutely nothing to worry about wrt to the Left.

peace!

obama, most likely will keep killing children in that area. natch, like every murderer, he too will rationalize his own murders. …
and 99.99% of blacks/hispanics have just approbated fresh slaughters and destruction. because they accept the cult of personality? go, go, deadbeat; educate them.; bring them to their senses. as i’m trying now? that just one black person might read and get angry w. me?
deadbeat, let’s have a reality check? thnx

The reality check bozh is that Obama’s very presence triangulates the Left and the Left is extremely responsible for putting itself in this position. Therefore Obama is not a “distraction” you have to ANALYZE Obama and his campaign in order to have a PROPER response. An IMPROPER response will only further the marginalization of the Left.

Your reaction of anger and frustration to the election is the same as Shabnam who rightfully sees Obama, a Zionist puppet, as the emeny of this people. The overwhelming support that Obama received from Blacks and Latinos from your point of view indicts “brnothers and sisters” for Obama’s administration of the “Empire”. In other words the voters (masses especially the masses of people of color) trivially voted for the “cult of personality” are “thoroughly irresponsible” and will be held to account for Obama’s action. That is one perspective.

The other perspective that you are ignoring people of color has suffered under the Southern Strategy since 1968. For 40 years there has been a reactionary backlash to the Civil Right movements and all of the movement of the 1960’s. Recall that Black support for Obama didn’t really mount until Hillary Clinton and her minions played the race card on Obama. The McCain/Palin campaign turned out to be a Klan rally with the burning cross. From the perspective of people of color they viewed Obama as a referendum against White Supremacy. And a moment in history linked to the struggle of political inclusion for all minority groups — the national question. Therefore a vote for Obama WAS NOT a vote for triviality or the “cult of personality”.

As you can see bozh, these perspective has CONTRADICTIONS and analyzing these contradictions means analyzing Obama. To ignore how these perspective relate and contradict and to PIT these contradictions against each other will be a SERIOUS error in judgment and strategy for the Left. As Larry Holmes remarked during the Workers World’s Conference such an error will set back the Left FOR YEARS because it will alienate the Black working class from the Left.

Obama may be an even worst TRIANGULATOR than Bill Clinton because Obama of the fact that he is Black and because the Left is too weak and fractured to offer an alternative. It is clear from your reaction that Obama’s is well position to pit Muslims against African Americans and without analysis the Left is well position to screw things up rather than provide a cogent strategy to counter Obama.

Max says…

The BBP was a moment in time. BBP was directional. We don’t see that today, which is why I don’t think the 60s produced real change. Some of what transpired during that time, provides more about what than how to.

Max, believe it or not, I respect your position but your view is too grandiose. This doesn’t mean you shouldn’t articulate it BUT how does your view become a locus of action? Take a look at what you did with the BPP …

Btw, I worked with the BPP on a free health clinic back in the 60s.

That right Max you worked with the BPP on the EVERYDAY issues (free health care) while the BPP also spoke to and confronted “empire”. The BPP goals was to UNIFY and build SOLIDARITY will all oppressed groups around the world — this included their outright anti-Zionist stance and support for the Palestinians. Therefore you know what I speak to about strategy is true.

What made the BPP so DANGEROUS and why they were put down by COINTELPRO was because they were revolutionary. They were able to educate their cadre on the larger issue and tie the big issues to the everyday because they materially addressed the EVERYDAY issues of the people.

I respect where both bozh and where Max are coming from but in order for the two of you to achieve your respective goals you’ll have to RESPECT where the masses (especially Blacks and Latinos) are coming from as well. Obama and the Obama campaign is not to be dismissed or underestimated but is ripe for analysis and a cogent response. It will be a mistake to dismiss him.

These are critical tests for the Left in the coming months and years.

Thanks,
Deadbeat.

The BBP was a moment in time. BBP was directional. We don’t see that today, which is why I don’t think the 60s produced real change. Some of what transpired during that time, provides more about what than how to.

The empire dug in and became more of what it is. The trajectory from Nixon, to Reagan, to Bush I to Clinton to Bush II is seamless; and Obama is clearly on that track. But all this pre-dates Nixon.

The only reality will be net energy. The empire will not be shamed, it is a bi-partisan war making machine that shares the same doctrine of exceptionalism. The empire has only one soft-spot, “energy”. The empire requires endless economic growth which can only be had through fossil. Alternatives will not supplant this level of demand.

Those who want fundamental change – transforming the empire to its place as a cooperative world citizen – will need to plan and move toward that world on the ground, locally, where such change is not only conceivable but doable. The empire owns the national and global stage. Head to head with the Empire is doomed. That is the lesson of the 60s.

Again, the non-negotiable vulnerability of this empire is fossil energy. The Empire doesn’t care where it gets it; but he monster must be fed. Everything the empire has, everything it wants, everything it creates comes from that. Monetary systems are just phony props which can be made to heel and respond to what the empire demands.

We must assume, as we see it playing out, that Obama is simply more of the same. To waste our time on Obama will detract us from what’s in front of us.

Btw, I worked with the BPP on a free health clinic back in the 60s.

Cool Max. I was too young to have that kind of experience and unfortunately when I was that age I didn’t have the conscientiousness. However despite our contentious dialogue here on DV it is good to know that we can reach a general understanding.

Thanks,
Deadbeat.

Dave Silver

Btw, I worked with the BPP on a free health clinic back in the 60s.

I’ve been doing that for the past year here on DV. Do a search on “Deadbeat” and you’ll see me confronting and challenging members of the Left that has used their oratory to obscure Zionism as a major issue in the U.S.

What is important to understand is that I advocate that the Left increase their solidarity with communities of color primarily because they have NO affinity towards Zionism once it can be shown that Zionism is actually a RACIST ideology. Right now the framing of Zionism has been to obscure it as a part of “imperialism” which most people cannot understand in order obscure this ideology. The Left has been very guilty of this.

African Americans and Latinos who bears the brunt of White Supremacy are natural allies of anti-Zionists. Recall that Obama had to REALLY distance himself from Rev. Wright when he called out Zionism in his defense of Louis Farrakhan. Farrakhan who is very respected in the black community has called out Zionism for the past 25 years. Ironically however many on the Left has nothing but ill to say of the minister.

Therefore Max if you truly want to really confront Zionism the best place to start is by building affinity with people of color. The Workers World Party and International ANSWER has long had affinity with Blacks and Latinos. Same is true about Solidarity.

However what I am seeing is that there are many on the Left who believe that they can build a movement in the United States WITHOUT affinity with African Americans. A small but clear example of this was the “circle the wagon” mentality around Nader for his “Uncle Tom” remark. This is why I referred you yesterday to Larry Holmes of the Workers World Party. He says it himself (paraphrasing) …

“If the Left attacks Obama in a why that antagonize the Black masses it will set back the movement by months IF NOT YEARS”.

If you truly want to confront the “empire” you have to ingratiate yourself with the masses ON THEIR TERMS. You build trust and solidarity when you engage with them on their issues. As you engage them then you can “educate” the masses on the bigger issues (if that “empire” so be it) and enlarge the movement.

However what I saw during the election season (and to some extent still see in its wake) is a DISDAIN towards the masses because of their support for Obama. Many on the Left misread the polls, misread the conscientiousness of the masses, but most importantly misread themselves and their inherent weaknesses. This especially included Glen Ford, the African American editor of Black Agenda Report. All of a sudden he totally forgot the national and historic struggle of political inclusion of African Americans. Obama may not have been HIS ideal candidate but just showing up as an African American made his run historic and a blow against racism. By forgetting the national question, Glen Ford dismissed NUANCE. By dismissing NUANCE Glen Ford discredited himself and opened the door for other Leftist like Nader to also forget NUANCE.

(Cynthia McKinney on the other hand remembered NUANCE but as an African American woman it is clear that she get it!)

Obama however creates a TREMENDOUS RISK for the Left. Just like you Max recently wrote about the 1960’s. Your dismissive tone towards the 1960’s was based on tactics of the 1960’s is being misapplied in 2008. Well guess what Max, that tone and stance of yours while it may have been acceptable towards an Al Gore or John Kerry is now be misapplied when used in the same way on Barack Obama. Obama just by being an African American TRIANGULATES the Left. And if the Left is not careful here will only alienate the Black working class.

For example Brian Koontz fell into the same trap several weeks ago when he wrote about why must the Left appease Black “vanity” in regards to Obama.

Another way that Obama “triangulates” is the anger among the Muslim community towards Blacks and Latinos for voting so overwhelmingly for a Zionist puppet. I presume that many Muslim frown upon the “triviality” of an African American President as their people are bombed daily and Zionists extend their hegemony.

So I am doing my part Max. I have spent considerable time here on DV offering a perspective that you won’t find on many Left-wing lists or blogs. In fact years ago I got kicked off of Hank Roth’s P-NEWS list for just broaching the issue of Zionism. U.S. Zionism is a touchy and often has been a taboo topic on the Left for years and has done far more to RETARD solidarity with people of color.

This is also a critical time for the Left because the current economic crisis will antagonize the entire working class. If the Left FAILS to organize the masses like they failed in 2003 to organize the anti-war movement the resulting vacuum will be filled by RACISTS and ZIONISTS that will divert attention away from “empire” and scapegoat Blacks, Latinos, Muslim, Native American, Asian, virtually ALL people of color. It won’t be pretty.

If you are sincere Max and I have reasons to doubt your sincerity but if you are really sincere then I would advise you to get engage with people of color. Get out of the suburbs (presumably that is where you are) and go into the inner cities or visit a barrio and get off your high horse of “empire” and become familiar with EVERYDAY issues. It all ties into “empire” anyway but most importantly you will learn humility and perhaps even learn to laugh.

I got my education during my years in NYC when Ed Koch was mayor and I saw how he used racism and neoliberal policies to create the schism between Blacks and Jews. Koch was extremely effective. It altered my conscientiousness. I think such an experience will help alter yours.

Having said that, America has done wonders to the the rest of the world. They could have done what Shaka Zulu, Ottomans, Chenghis khan and the French did to their subjugants. Having an Isreali teach us about democracy, is like a dodo bird trying to teach us to fly

A call to action should have the strength of its convictions. Otherwise its just some many fingers tip tapping.

To this end, they will seek to use the services of Zionism, and further push India into the abyss of global war and the destruction of the entire subcontinent. This act of terrors is not the work of Muslims rather is work of Zionfascist-US imperialist – Hinudu fascists to frame Muslim community.

Which is why Zionism needs to be unambiguously confronted in the United States.

to date the problem still persists. See how the Freedom Alliance and the site the coalition to fight against the ACLU works to protect WE THE PEOPLE.

Okay, the evils are capitalism, imperialism , colonialism,Zionism and all that other shit we’ve been naming. I include states and nations, nation-states in that list. Without empires or nation-states, would we even have hegemony?

Of course I love/ hate the u. s.–any thinking person has those feelings about where they live, no matter which country. I love the people and the land here–as I have loved on other continents; u. s. is where I was born– it is government I hate and all those evils that come with it. I am a deep-ecology founded anarchist at heart–(as, I believe, are my daughters, ‘though I didn’t “make” them that way; it’s just the real, authentic way of being and survival that’s turned them out that way)– but, being a practical soul, I think IF we have to have government, then it must be communist/socialist and truly support Our Mother and hence us along with her. We are of her. And, like all other organisms, we blunder along in our efforts to stay alive. Problems arise for us as humans when equity is dispensed with. And, since power-mongers seem ever inclined to enslave, rape , commit terrorism, lie, cheat, poison, steal and engage in warfare, and because they perpetuate their class and their systems, we often appear stuck in an evil, sinking morass, and give in to hand-wringing, despair, hopelessness, suicide. All those evils we have named are the by-products of the power-mongers and they can all be undone–very likely not overnight!–since they are only houses made of cards, ‘though cleverly constructed. And, we must be aware that any of us can become a power-monger, if we give in to those propensities. Education and dialogue in open fora are vital to creating communities and societies based on equity.

I have lived and traveled out of the u.s. I chose to come back here at a miserable point in history: the first bush was still in office at end of 1989: the air and sky and land and water were thick with toxins, and are thicker still thanks to corporate teat-sucking republocrats. Frankly, I’m “scared” to leave, because I know Turtle Island needs people with the ethics my daughters and I embody. I don’t mean that in an egocentric way; there are plenty others out there with more knowledge, drive and energy than any of us has, but everyone participating in the work/play of revolution is a moral imperative.

On that note, I meant to include Fidel Castro’s autobiography, “My Life”, in the recommended read list, but as I have only let myself read a few paragraphs of this beautiful book, because I have so much else to finish reading first, I hesitated to add it. Also, it is my wonderful friend “Cuba Joan” here in the twin cities who told me about William Blum. My older daughter and I would
love to live and work in Cuba, but Cuba probably doesn’t need or want us and their immigration policies are pretty tight. Fidel and his revolutionary government have understood that basic human needs must be met in order to sustain the revolution; as a direct result of most of the policies and programs realized there, the Cuban people and their island country have weathered the collapse of the ussr, the “Special Period” which followed, ongoing assaults by the u. s., whether through warfare, infiltration, trade and tourism embargoes, and major hurricanes. Cuba has the highest literacy rates, lowest infant mortality rates any where in Latin America, plus free education, housing and healthcare. Cuba does better than the u. s. in providing for its citizens and in terms of accountability than the u. s. Desoto, gracias por incluyendo Cuba en su communicacion.

For almost ten years I have been an activist for government-funded universal single payer health care in the u. s., so I have learned much but not all about the health care realities in many countries. Australia has this form of health care; I lived there for 4 years. It is a fantastic system that could be expanded to include dentistry, wholistic/”alternative” medicine and practices and eyeglasses, without much effort. The funding for it comes out of the tax base that individuals and businesses pay. What has been hurting the Australian and, now, the Canadian, British, and some European countries’ excellent and well-conceived health care systems is the global capitalist imperative
to commoditize human rights–particularly health care–and the push for private insurance companies, health care “management” companies pharmaceutical companies and the medical technology industry to infiltrate public systems to create huge profit margins for the corporate/academic elite. Propaganda and other evils abound in this domain; unfortunately, most trade, professional and service workers unions have sold us down the river to corporate intersts on the health care issue. It is unbelievable how much negative impact these entities have wrought here in the state of minnesota, which, supposedly has the best per capita outcomes for health care anywhere in the u.s.–(for “white”, english-speaking folks thatis; and, of course, the ratively higher percapita income/educational levels we still hangonto in mn , help skew the data. I won’t go into health care access and out come disparities for economically poor, middle to lower middle class people, women, children, people “of color”, college students. Not to mention people who “have” “health” insurance through their jobs and can’t afford to see a doctor or buy treatments or medicines. The u. s. health care de facto policy : “Don’t get sick!” Please read Kip Sullivan’s book which is entitled something like The U. S. Healthcare Mess: ?????” Kip is a strong government-funded single payer universal health care advocate and policy-wonk who lives in the twin cities.

I did not mean to send another long missive, but my hands were guided by my activist muse. Rich, thank you for your sweet words on the poetic flow of what I sent before. Funny, these days I feel the most unpoetic and the most didactic I’ve ever been. Winter in mn must be setting in and global capitalism is in the process of crumbling onto its ugly ass and some most of my “progressive’ and “right-wing’ and “liberal” and “neo-liberal sisters and brothers are so uncomfrotable with that and in so much in need of education, it worries me!! Poetry is my forte; I need to do more of it!

Shabnam, shukra! You are speaking the truth that many already perceive but are afraid to speak. I actually held myself back from mentioning definite u. a. and other imperial/zionist powers’ involvements in setting up all of these so-called terrorist attacks. I wasn’t afraid to write about it; I wasn’t sure how welcome that knowledge would be in this forum. You modeled courage and forthrightness for me, thanks again. Sometimes, I don’t want alienate people with my observations, thoughts, knowledge, passion. I’m not afraid to tell it like it is; just wary, on occasion. I am glad my maternal grandparents taught me to love all people and respect folks who seem “different’ from how I was raised, and my mom taught me the same and to have courage and still love right-wing haters. And, Alice Walker taught me that sometimes you have to know what you hate in order to love, fully.

Danny Ray and day53 collectively, this country–i. e.–the u. s.–is responsible for most of the problems on Our Mother since brits and euros got here and began their genocidal, slavery and corporations and the “christian god” plutotheocratic oligarchic setup that is a cancer everaywhere. Of course, this disease came out of europe and the spirit of colonialism, feudalism and empire; it did not spring up out of nowhere. The so-called “founding fathers” were mostly slave owners and all were power-mongering elitists who had no conception of human rights; hence, de facto terra nullius perpetrated against all indigenous peoples, enslavement of African tribal people, women and children as servants or chattel with no rights, and always the land is raped. This had happened in europe and the near and far east and and in africa as feudalism, imperialism, colonialism took their powerful holds on tribal people over thousands of years. The u.s. was founded on ideologies that could not escape from the horrific historical legacy that preceded them, whether one wants to believe they were in reaction against that legacy or not. Hitler is a perfect example of a leader just pushing the envelope of similar material to what the u. s. was founded on. And I say that as a world citizen born in the u. s. of jewish parents. I spent many hours as a radical left-wing student and then ex-patriate in greece, turkey, england and australia explaining to some folks that there is a difference between the u. s. government which is not at all representative and the people who live and do or don’t vote here. I can speak on behalf of only what I believe is just and good, and that has NEVER been capitalism, racism, sexism, ethnocentrism, imperialism, et al. Cuba will be fine if the u. s. and our current allies do not fuck that island county up as we have the rest of the planet. I have huge concerns about this administration’s machinations over the Caribbean, Mexico and Central and South Americas, not tomention all the rest of the world. Stop bashing Muslims and the “Arab countries” which you obviously know nothing about. I trust you two will open your hearts and minds to what is really going on. Read Fidel’s book and Mumia’s and LaDuke’s and Trudell’s and Blum’s works to get a different education than what I assume you’ve experienced. (The u.s.corporate controlled public and private education system is more than lacking!) I don’t ask you to hate “your country”; I hope you will overcome your deepest fears and self-hatred and work with us to create the revolution.

Gilad, thanks for opening up discussion…..and now I have to start reading your books and listening to more of your music!

Shalom/Salaam/Solidarity!

Stefanie Levi

How many people rememba? when the Socialized healthcare scenario was attempted by Clinton? how many people forgot that it was in the news that when Clinton had to go for his by-pass surgery the nurses said to clinton quote “good thing this country didn’t vote for your socialized healthcare because you would have had to “wait’ in line for treatment.”

It’ s important to remember there are no pluses to any “ism” in life.

Some great scholar or publisher once said quote Those whom don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it?
Go see for yourselves what we saw at the FREEDOM ALLIANCE website and Coalition to fight against the ACLU and how bravely these groups work to protect WE THE PEOPLE.

last time i checked my brain, no worker was even a secretary let alone a prez. now, why is that so? perhaps, devil wants it that way.

can an actress, wearing a $2K gown be alos sisterly to a woman wearing $2o pants? and yet, she pays $10 to watch the same snob. why is that so?

bozh, why r u so stupid, says my wife (she’s a yr wiser than me).
well, i tell her, it’s wonders of nature!

my wife asks, Isn’t washington in seattle? yes, around that area, i told her. what’s zionism, sez she. i said, beats me!

u’r an also run, sez the medium.