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	<title>Comments on: The Challenger Disaster, Financial Collapse&#8211;and Viable Solutions</title>
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	<description>a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice</description>
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		<title>By: blowin in the wind</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/the-challenger-disaster-financial-collapse-and-viable-solutions/#comment-36459</link>
		<dc:creator>blowin in the wind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 02:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4187#comment-36459</guid>
		<description>I like this article. But the problem I am having occurs virtually in the introduction to the analysis of the fundamental flaws of the free-market, which turn out not to be systemic flaws but policy errors, and hence not fundamental.

Nonetheless, if we reflect on the logic of the profit motive, and moreover if we reflect on the fact that profit-making is always private, never social, we can see that it is and must be self-destructive.

Surely demand fails to meet supply not simply because credit is provided in such a way as not to support it but because competition as the engine of profits requires that that portion of capital investment represented by labour falls in relation to that portion of investment represented by fixed capital.

This is because labour is the only cost over time that can significantly vary. Everything requires labour to be be produced, and anything can be made abundant by the employment of sufficient labour upon its production. 

The principle use of labour is in the production of the increased productivity of labour.

Increasing the productivity of labour not only produces abundance but as labour is both a commodity and  a form of capital, producing an abundance of it for exchange for profit both reduces costs and paradoxically over the long run, profits. The more workers produce the more plentiful, in a sense, they are, in that productivity is expendability of labour-time. Left to itself capital would simply force wages down to the level where the supply of labour meets the demand as measured in rock bottom wages because the demand of capital is always for unlimited supply and unlimited demand. As the source of value, the ultimate source of all production, therefore, labour has to lead the way, creating for capital an unlimited supply of itself to meet an unlimited demand for this unlimited supply. As I said this is reflected in prices, a superabundant and ever increasing supply of labour is reflected in the price labour can command according to the laws of supply and demand. This price stabilizes around the cost of keeping workers working, in the midst of general and growing unemployment. But at this level their purchasing power  is widely out of kilter with production. As competition is always about making sure the supply (of labour)in the sense of its relative adundance vis a vis its productivity always far exceeds the demand for it, demand begins to fall with the expendability and hence falling purchasing power of the worker. This is the source of the gap and the reason unemployment never quite goes away. With falling demand goes deflation and decreased profitability, and with it asset deflation. In other words a depression. But this is great -in some absurd way, I do not claim capitalism is rational. only homeostatic-because with the general devaluation of capital those with greater capitals can buy up their rivals at bargain basement prices.

However there is a circumstance where it appears to go away temporarily  usually in the upswing after a catastrophic failure of the economy such as occurred after WW2. This is the opposite process of the boom, supported or unsupported by demand stimulation.





Costs rise as investment gets underway because the demand for available capacity increases, which in turn leads to credit expansion, inflation, increased capacity and rising demand. But a point is soon reached where profits fail to rise  or even fall relative to inflation because workers are consuming a greater part of the surplus due to their increased purchasing power-this is a largely notional and fictitious point in a functioning captalist system and usually mean that workers wages aren&#039;t falling fast enough relative to inflation- This consumed portion of the surplus represents foregone investment. But even if investment kept apace, and for a greater or lesser period it ususally does, it would represent foregone profits which would be recouped by price rises and thus spiralling inflation.

Alternatively it would be financed by borrowing of one sort or another. But the bottom line is literally this-prosperity though the holy grail of capitalism always in the long run, and usually the short run, threatens profits.

The distibution of dividends across a population would leave the process of labour exploitation that I have just described untouched and would simply leave a mass of umemployed workers in possession of  worthless credits. A situation that is pretty much the one that obtains</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like this article. But the problem I am having occurs virtually in the introduction to the analysis of the fundamental flaws of the free-market, which turn out not to be systemic flaws but policy errors, and hence not fundamental.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, if we reflect on the logic of the profit motive, and moreover if we reflect on the fact that profit-making is always private, never social, we can see that it is and must be self-destructive.</p>
<p>Surely demand fails to meet supply not simply because credit is provided in such a way as not to support it but because competition as the engine of profits requires that that portion of capital investment represented by labour falls in relation to that portion of investment represented by fixed capital.</p>
<p>This is because labour is the only cost over time that can significantly vary. Everything requires labour to be be produced, and anything can be made abundant by the employment of sufficient labour upon its production. </p>
<p>The principle use of labour is in the production of the increased productivity of labour.</p>
<p>Increasing the productivity of labour not only produces abundance but as labour is both a commodity and  a form of capital, producing an abundance of it for exchange for profit both reduces costs and paradoxically over the long run, profits. The more workers produce the more plentiful, in a sense, they are, in that productivity is expendability of labour-time. Left to itself capital would simply force wages down to the level where the supply of labour meets the demand as measured in rock bottom wages because the demand of capital is always for unlimited supply and unlimited demand. As the source of value, the ultimate source of all production, therefore, labour has to lead the way, creating for capital an unlimited supply of itself to meet an unlimited demand for this unlimited supply. As I said this is reflected in prices, a superabundant and ever increasing supply of labour is reflected in the price labour can command according to the laws of supply and demand. This price stabilizes around the cost of keeping workers working, in the midst of general and growing unemployment. But at this level their purchasing power  is widely out of kilter with production. As competition is always about making sure the supply (of labour)in the sense of its relative adundance vis a vis its productivity always far exceeds the demand for it, demand begins to fall with the expendability and hence falling purchasing power of the worker. This is the source of the gap and the reason unemployment never quite goes away. With falling demand goes deflation and decreased profitability, and with it asset deflation. In other words a depression. But this is great -in some absurd way, I do not claim capitalism is rational. only homeostatic-because with the general devaluation of capital those with greater capitals can buy up their rivals at bargain basement prices.</p>
<p>However there is a circumstance where it appears to go away temporarily  usually in the upswing after a catastrophic failure of the economy such as occurred after WW2. This is the opposite process of the boom, supported or unsupported by demand stimulation.</p>
<p>Costs rise as investment gets underway because the demand for available capacity increases, which in turn leads to credit expansion, inflation, increased capacity and rising demand. But a point is soon reached where profits fail to rise  or even fall relative to inflation because workers are consuming a greater part of the surplus due to their increased purchasing power-this is a largely notional and fictitious point in a functioning captalist system and usually mean that workers wages aren&#8217;t falling fast enough relative to inflation- This consumed portion of the surplus represents foregone investment. But even if investment kept apace, and for a greater or lesser period it ususally does, it would represent foregone profits which would be recouped by price rises and thus spiralling inflation.</p>
<p>Alternatively it would be financed by borrowing of one sort or another. But the bottom line is literally this-prosperity though the holy grail of capitalism always in the long run, and usually the short run, threatens profits.</p>
<p>The distibution of dividends across a population would leave the process of labour exploitation that I have just described untouched and would simply leave a mass of umemployed workers in possession of  worthless credits. A situation that is pretty much the one that obtains</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Campbell.</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/the-challenger-disaster-financial-collapse-and-viable-solutions/#comment-30392</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Campbell.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 08:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4187#comment-30392</guid>
		<description>An astute interview by Gary Corseri.

(Respectfully,)--and pun-wise, Richard Cook&#039;s comments could (and should) have been  sub-titled;  &quot;Un-cooking the books.&quot;

This article is worth re-reading many times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An astute interview by Gary Corseri.</p>
<p>(Respectfully,)&#8211;and pun-wise, Richard Cook&#8217;s comments could (and should) have been  sub-titled;  &#8220;Un-cooking the books.&#8221;</p>
<p>This article is worth re-reading many times.</p>
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		<title>By: bozhidar  bob  balkas</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/the-challenger-disaster-financial-collapse-and-viable-solutions/#comment-30350</link>
		<dc:creator>bozhidar  bob  balkas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:50:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4187#comment-30350</guid>
		<description>let&#039;s not discount our feelings as causes of much if not all of our evil-  or wrongdoings.
if u want a child to feel god (one can&#039;t know it/her/him) u tell him there is god. 
and child believes/feels it. for what is a belief than a submicroscopic process which is as reel as a rock.
and  one can&#039;t smash the rock with words; only w. a sledge hammer.
ah, that rock in peoples heads; we&#039;r stuck w. it. i am not using the sledge hammer. does anybody want?
fear, greed, illusion of grandeur r imbedded in every cell of our body. 
no one can extract them.
way out of this mess is as easy as the way in: education of children.
but as long as clergy/uncle sam control miseducation to the degree that they have been for millenia and centuries, we&#039;r doomed  to roll that rock up the hill only to see roll dwn even farther. thnx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>let&#8217;s not discount our feelings as causes of much if not all of our evil-  or wrongdoings.<br />
if u want a child to feel god (one can&#8217;t know it/her/him) u tell him there is god.<br />
and child believes/feels it. for what is a belief than a submicroscopic process which is as reel as a rock.<br />
and  one can&#8217;t smash the rock with words; only w. a sledge hammer.<br />
ah, that rock in peoples heads; we&#8217;r stuck w. it. i am not using the sledge hammer. does anybody want?<br />
fear, greed, illusion of grandeur r imbedded in every cell of our body.<br />
no one can extract them.<br />
way out of this mess is as easy as the way in: education of children.<br />
but as long as clergy/uncle sam control miseducation to the degree that they have been for millenia and centuries, we&#8217;r doomed  to roll that rock up the hill only to see roll dwn even farther. thnx</p>
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		<title>By: Richard C. Cook</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/the-challenger-disaster-financial-collapse-and-viable-solutions/#comment-30344</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard C. Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 22:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4187#comment-30344</guid>
		<description>Not try, do. I agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not try, do. I agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/the-challenger-disaster-financial-collapse-and-viable-solutions/#comment-30316</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 19:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4187#comment-30316</guid>
		<description>If you read what Einstein wrote remember this:  


Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
 
Always in motion is the future. 


A human being is part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. The true value of a human being is determined by the measure and the sense in which they have obtained liberation from the self. We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive. (Albert Einstein, 1954)

     Yesterday at those hearings on the hill what did we see.  Three things fear, greed and stupidity from both sides well all sides the people asking the questions the people answering the questions and the people asking the questions is that called working together I think not.  We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive and what is that new manner of thinking well what is the other side of fear, greed and stupidity.  When do you think we should get started?  What Yoda said all that means is you must know all of it you don&#039;t have to think about it, you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you read what Einstein wrote remember this:  </p>
<p>Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.</p>
<p>Always in motion is the future. </p>
<p>A human being is part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. The true value of a human being is determined by the measure and the sense in which they have obtained liberation from the self. We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive. (Albert Einstein, 1954)</p>
<p>     Yesterday at those hearings on the hill what did we see.  Three things fear, greed and stupidity from both sides well all sides the people asking the questions the people answering the questions and the people asking the questions is that called working together I think not.  We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive and what is that new manner of thinking well what is the other side of fear, greed and stupidity.  When do you think we should get started?  What Yoda said all that means is you must know all of it you don&#8217;t have to think about it, you know.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Hawkins</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/the-challenger-disaster-financial-collapse-and-viable-solutions/#comment-30309</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Hawkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 19:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4187#comment-30309</guid>
		<description>RC: The guy who’s really defined this best is Dr. Michael Hudson. The producing economy is where people like you and I go to work every day and make stuff. The financial economy is money that’s leant into circulation or that is manipulated for profit without any productive value being created. Hudson calls it the FIRE economy—finance, insurance and real estate. The FIRE economy has killed the producing economy. 

 I believe that the true genius of the human race can be unlocked from the bottom—from ordinary people being given the opportunity to fulfill their God-given destiny. I think that, essentially, for me, this is what the teaching of Jesus was about. The best economics is the one based on the principle of doing unto your neighbor as you would have them do unto you. You don’t rob from your neighbor, you give to your neighbor. And I believe our present economic system is robbing from our neighbor. Taking what belongs from them, and essentially enslaving your neighbor into working not for him and his posterity and his family, but for you—because you’re the one who is living off the fat of the land through your compound interest, your financial lending system and all that comes with it.

  Well put people and now it begins.  I will read this a few more times.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RC: The guy who’s really defined this best is Dr. Michael Hudson. The producing economy is where people like you and I go to work every day and make stuff. The financial economy is money that’s leant into circulation or that is manipulated for profit without any productive value being created. Hudson calls it the FIRE economy—finance, insurance and real estate. The FIRE economy has killed the producing economy. </p>
<p> I believe that the true genius of the human race can be unlocked from the bottom—from ordinary people being given the opportunity to fulfill their God-given destiny. I think that, essentially, for me, this is what the teaching of Jesus was about. The best economics is the one based on the principle of doing unto your neighbor as you would have them do unto you. You don’t rob from your neighbor, you give to your neighbor. And I believe our present economic system is robbing from our neighbor. Taking what belongs from them, and essentially enslaving your neighbor into working not for him and his posterity and his family, but for you—because you’re the one who is living off the fat of the land through your compound interest, your financial lending system and all that comes with it.</p>
<p>  Well put people and now it begins.  I will read this a few more times.</p>
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		<title>By: mary</title>
		<link>http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/the-challenger-disaster-financial-collapse-and-viable-solutions/#comment-30294</link>
		<dc:creator>mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 18:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4187#comment-30294</guid>
		<description>A most interesting and illuminating conversation between two wise men. I agree with Mr Cook&#039;s opinion about the depth of the coming depression and am grateful to Gary for enabling us to look into Mr Cook&#039;s mindset and to learn of his experiences and thinking.
 
Some recollections came to mind whilst reading this novel piece - my father was a serious thinker and attempted to spread the word about Social Credit in the pre-war days. Following the Depression in the Thirties, rampant capitalism and its friend,  the rearmanent lobby, were by then precipitating the start of a second world war and Social Credit was tarnished by association with Sir Oswald Mosley who led the movement of British fascists (the Blackshirts) which supported Hitler.  Any idea of social credit being accepted was scuppered and since then we have &#039;endured&#039; the artificially created (and damaging to all earthly species and to the planet itself)  boom and bust cycles of the capitalist system which is now completely kaput.

The evening BBC news contained a litany of name of firms closing and the number of redundancies, interviews with weeping mothers about to be homeless and even a piece about a pub closing in Brown&#039;s Scottish constituency. People can&#039;t afford the pub now but buy their beer cheaply in supermarkets and stay at home.  Officially today we are told by the news presenters that we are in a &#039;recession&#039;, as if we haven&#039;t known for months. I think the word is incorrect and that the full truth of the current state of affairs is being withheld.
 
Reference the Challenger disaster, a while back we saw an excellent drama documentary made by Channel 4, entitled Countdown to Disaster,  which showed us the moral dilemma of the Morton Thiokol engineer following the tragedy of the disintegration of the Challenger and death of its occupants.  What extravagant nonsense space travel and moon landings are in retrospect and quite irrelevant to our present predicament. 
 
I have also read Richard C Cook&#039;s work on Global Research with great interest and congratulate him upon his contribution to our understanding.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A most interesting and illuminating conversation between two wise men. I agree with Mr Cook&#8217;s opinion about the depth of the coming depression and am grateful to Gary for enabling us to look into Mr Cook&#8217;s mindset and to learn of his experiences and thinking.</p>
<p>Some recollections came to mind whilst reading this novel piece &#8211; my father was a serious thinker and attempted to spread the word about Social Credit in the pre-war days. Following the Depression in the Thirties, rampant capitalism and its friend,  the rearmanent lobby, were by then precipitating the start of a second world war and Social Credit was tarnished by association with Sir Oswald Mosley who led the movement of British fascists (the Blackshirts) which supported Hitler.  Any idea of social credit being accepted was scuppered and since then we have &#8216;endured&#8217; the artificially created (and damaging to all earthly species and to the planet itself)  boom and bust cycles of the capitalist system which is now completely kaput.</p>
<p>The evening BBC news contained a litany of name of firms closing and the number of redundancies, interviews with weeping mothers about to be homeless and even a piece about a pub closing in Brown&#8217;s Scottish constituency. People can&#8217;t afford the pub now but buy their beer cheaply in supermarkets and stay at home.  Officially today we are told by the news presenters that we are in a &#8216;recession&#8217;, as if we haven&#8217;t known for months. I think the word is incorrect and that the full truth of the current state of affairs is being withheld.</p>
<p>Reference the Challenger disaster, a while back we saw an excellent drama documentary made by Channel 4, entitled Countdown to Disaster,  which showed us the moral dilemma of the Morton Thiokol engineer following the tragedy of the disintegration of the Challenger and death of its occupants.  What extravagant nonsense space travel and moon landings are in retrospect and quite irrelevant to our present predicament. </p>
<p>I have also read Richard C Cook&#8217;s work on Global Research with great interest and congratulate him upon his contribution to our understanding.</p>
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