Comments on: Pain Compliance as Indigenous Relations http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/pain-compliance-as-indigenous-relations/ a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justice Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:45:36 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Brian Koontz http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/pain-compliance-as-indigenous-relations/#comment-30071 Brian Koontz Tue, 21 Oct 2008 02:58:38 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4060#comment-30071 You're speaking strictly of the United States, which comprises about 4.5% of the world's population. Even within the United States, the change has merely been from direct domination of blacks to coercion and consensual domination. But since the 1970s, the destruction of global blacks, either the "pure" definition (African descent) or the realistic definition (all indigenous) has increased greatly, reflected in widening income disparity around the world and increased poverty. The heart of the empire is always well-off. The United States has been like Bubble Boy, living in a magical paradise land of imperial benefits. Much of the rest of the world has been paying, with millions of blacks every year paying with their lives. And now Bubble Boy is becoming Walled-In Bubble Boy, both in Israel with massive walls separating them from the "black other" and in the United States with walls separating them from the "poor (black) other". Enclaves, cults, gated communities, remote-controlled genocide, hyper-protection, securitization, and utter insularity is the future for the ruling class. The rest of us will live in a wasteland. Unless we revolt. If integration into American society, with it's mass murder, it's horrific war machine, it's serial abusers, it's delusion, and it's abject ignorance is deemed the final goal of American blacks, they really need to get a fucking life. Join the world, don't join America. America is dead. American blacks need to confront the reality that all they've ever been fighting for in America is a bigger piece of the imperial pie - a bigger piece of the pie made out of the blood and bones of the global black. Both MLK and Malcolm X were starting to realize that at the time of their deaths - their futures, had they lived, might have been quite bright. Not a single American stepped up after their deaths to continue their work - they preferred to wallow in misery. And so here we are today, with Americans influenced by the monster Barack Obama. The Chickens are indeed coming home to roost. It's nightfall in America. You’re speaking strictly of the United States, which comprises about 4.5% of the world’s population. Even within the United States, the change has merely been from direct domination of blacks to coercion and consensual domination. But since the 1970s, the destruction of global blacks, either the “pure” definition (African descent) or the realistic definition (all indigenous) has increased greatly, reflected in widening income disparity around the world and increased poverty.

The heart of the empire is always well-off. The United States has been like Bubble Boy, living in a magical paradise land of imperial benefits. Much of the rest of the world has been paying, with millions of blacks every year paying with their lives.

And now Bubble Boy is becoming Walled-In Bubble Boy, both in Israel with massive walls separating them from the “black other” and in the United States with walls separating them from the “poor (black) other”.

Enclaves, cults, gated communities, remote-controlled genocide, hyper-protection, securitization, and utter insularity is the future for the ruling class. The rest of us will live in a wasteland. Unless we revolt.

If integration into American society, with it’s mass murder, it’s horrific war machine, it’s serial abusers, it’s delusion, and it’s abject ignorance is deemed the final goal of American blacks, they really need to get a fucking life.

Join the world, don’t join America. America is dead.

American blacks need to confront the reality that all they’ve ever been fighting for in America is a bigger piece of the imperial pie – a bigger piece of the pie made out of the blood and bones of the global black. Both MLK and Malcolm X were starting to realize that at the time of their deaths – their futures, had they lived, might have been quite bright. Not a single American stepped up after their deaths to continue their work – they preferred to wallow in misery. And so here we are today, with Americans influenced by the monster Barack Obama.

The Chickens are indeed coming home to roost. It’s nightfall in America.

]]> By: Danny Ray http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/pain-compliance-as-indigenous-relations/#comment-30065 Danny Ray Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:57:47 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4060#comment-30065 "I have a dream" these are words that will never die , my friend, doctor King changed more than you will ever know . guess there's racism today and yes there some forms of segregation still alive, but to those of us who were old enough to remember before the march on Selma well let's just say we remember a different world . I remember blacks not being able to go through the front door of the courthouse , I remember a separate jail for blacks , I remember separate water fountains, bus stops, schools, buses I remember when a black man bear not walk down the street so wide southern town or speak to a lady on white lady that is . My friend if you think doctor Martin Luther King failed in his campaign you're so wrong . Bryan, doctor King's dream lives on in every one of us. “I have a dream” these are words that will never die , my friend, doctor King changed more than you will ever know . guess there’s racism today and yes there some forms of segregation still alive, but to those of us who were old enough to remember before the march on Selma well let’s just say we remember a different world . I remember blacks not being able to go through the front door of the courthouse , I remember a separate jail for blacks , I remember separate water fountains, bus stops, schools, buses I remember when a black man bear not walk down the street so wide southern town or speak to a lady on white lady that is . My friend if you think doctor Martin Luther King failed in his campaign you’re so wrong . Bryan, doctor King’s dream lives on in every one of us.

]]> By: Brian Koontz http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/pain-compliance-as-indigenous-relations/#comment-30054 Brian Koontz Mon, 20 Oct 2008 21:51:12 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4060#comment-30054 "Martin Luther King’s campaign of nonviolence worked in the United States ." MLK wanted an end to racism and full integration. His campaign was an utter failure. Part of the problem was that it was HIS campaign, and one man is always easy to kill. “Martin Luther King’s campaign of nonviolence worked in the United States .”

MLK wanted an end to racism and full integration. His campaign was an utter failure. Part of the problem was that it was HIS campaign, and one man is always easy to kill.

]]> By: John Hatch http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/pain-compliance-as-indigenous-relations/#comment-30051 John Hatch Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:52:26 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4060#comment-30051 All my life I have heard politicians utter pious statements about how to honor committments to Natives and how to improve their conditions. All my life I have seen gentle Natives living in third world conditions and subjected to racism and police violence. If police treated me or my loved ones the way they constantly treat Natives I would shoot as many of them as I could and proudly accept the consequences. I really would. All my life I have heard politicians utter pious statements about how to honor committments to Natives and how to improve their conditions.

All my life I have seen gentle Natives living in third world conditions and subjected to racism and police violence.

If police treated me or my loved ones the way they constantly treat Natives I would shoot as many of them as I could and proudly accept the consequences. I really would.

]]> By: Danny Ray http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/pain-compliance-as-indigenous-relations/#comment-30048 Danny Ray Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:02:47 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4060#comment-30048 Poilu I thank you for your kind words . And you seem to get my point , nonviolence works sometimes but is not a universal solvent . Yes Gandhi's campaign of nonviolence worked in India against the British . Martin Luther King's campaign of nonviolence worked in the United States . But did they work because of the nonviolence or because they were directed at wheather you like it are not, basically good civilized people . I always have to ask myself could Gandhi have caused change in the Soviet Union , or could Martin Luther King have conquered east Germany are for that matter any Warsaw pact countryusing just nonviolence . Basically what I'm trying to say is that people who were not afraid or have no moral reservations against using violence to counter nonviolence will always win . I myself suspect the Gandhi versus red square would have seen Mr. Gandhi Quietly disappearing into the Siberian forest on a mission to count trees , if he ever made it out of KGB headquarters alive . My point is that there are those on the left to believe that joining hands and good thoughts will change things . And though it's a hard thing to think of sometimes, a little blood must be shed for change . Poilu
I thank you for your kind words . And you seem to get my point , nonviolence works sometimes but is not a universal solvent . Yes Gandhi’s campaign of nonviolence worked in India against the British . Martin Luther King’s campaign of nonviolence worked in the United States . But did they work because of the nonviolence or because they were directed at wheather you like it are not, basically good civilized people . I always have to ask myself could Gandhi have caused change in the Soviet Union , or could Martin Luther King have conquered east Germany are for that matter any Warsaw pact countryusing just nonviolence . Basically what I’m trying to say is that people who were not afraid or have no moral reservations against using violence to counter nonviolence will always win . I myself suspect the Gandhi versus red square would have seen Mr. Gandhi Quietly disappearing into the Siberian forest on a mission to count trees , if he ever made it out of KGB headquarters alive .
My point is that there are those on the left to believe that joining hands and good thoughts will change things . And though it’s a hard thing to think of sometimes, a little blood must be shed for change .

]]> By: Poilu http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/pain-compliance-as-indigenous-relations/#comment-30045 Poilu Mon, 20 Oct 2008 19:24:07 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4060#comment-30045 "OK so now we know that nonviolence does not work, it has never worked and it will never work. ..." Danny Ray: While I'm inclined to agree with you (in essence) on many things, the above statement is patently false. Gandhi's campaign against the British occupation of India DID work, though one could always question its "efficiency" versus a hypothetical violent revolt. And it's arguably true that primarily nonviolent efforts HAVE achieved their goals in other countries and circumstances, as well. What I would propose, alternately, is that nonviolence is by no means a "universal" solution, and should therefore not be held up as some lofty, IRREVOCABLE standard by those seeking to induce needed change. The Algonquin may indeed prevail by imposing themselves as a constant "thorn in the side" of the Quebec status quo. That depends very much on the particulars of the status quo and the willingness of the Barriere Lake community to persist in its efforts in the face of what are (currently) relatively standard police tactics. But "civil disobedience" alone will not resolve EVERY conflict. As for me, when utterly unbridled, institutionalized violence is wielded as a vehicle of state oppression, I will perceive a situation where "all bets are off", the would-be social contract rendered null and void. Even Gandhi himself opined, "It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence." And I take very much to heart the proclamation issued by the main character of V for Vendetta: "Violence CAN be used for good ... justice!" “OK so now we know that nonviolence does not work, it has never worked and it will never work. …”

Danny Ray: While I’m inclined to agree with you (in essence) on many things, the above statement is patently false. Gandhi’s campaign against the British occupation of India DID work, though one could always question its “efficiency” versus a hypothetical violent revolt. And it’s arguably true that primarily nonviolent efforts HAVE achieved their goals in other countries and circumstances, as well.

What I would propose, alternately, is that nonviolence is by no means a “universal” solution, and should therefore not be held up as some lofty, IRREVOCABLE standard by those seeking to induce needed change. The Algonquin may indeed prevail by imposing themselves as a constant “thorn in the side” of the Quebec status quo. That depends very much on the particulars of the status quo and the willingness of the Barriere Lake community to persist in its efforts in the face of what are (currently) relatively standard police tactics. But “civil disobedience” alone will not resolve EVERY conflict.

As for me, when utterly unbridled, institutionalized violence is wielded as a vehicle of state oppression, I will perceive a situation where “all bets are off”, the would-be social contract rendered null and void. Even Gandhi himself opined, “It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.” And I take very much to heart the proclamation issued by the main character of V for Vendetta: “Violence CAN be used for good … justice!”

]]> By: Danny Ray http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/pain-compliance-as-indigenous-relations/#comment-30032 Danny Ray Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:07:50 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4060#comment-30032 OK so now we know that nonviolence does not work, it has never worked and it will never work. My friends, the meek will never inherit the earth. As long as you peacefully stand there and let them push you off the road, you’re nothing to them. What pain have the Algonquin inflicted upon the police? My guess would be none , other than a little aggravation. What’s going on in northern Quebec is a travesty. But you have to understand these are little people who only choose to stand up for themselves by getting on their knees and asking politely for their rights. And the MAN will never give you what is yours until you stand up look them in the eye and take it. Yes some people be hurt, probably killed but I guarantee you, shed enough blood and the Canadians will be there with open hands asking what will it take to stop it. OK so now we know that nonviolence does not work, it has never worked and it will never work. My friends, the meek will never inherit the earth. As long as you peacefully stand there and let them push you off the road, you’re nothing to them. What pain have the Algonquin inflicted upon the police? My guess would be none , other than a little aggravation.

What’s going on in northern Quebec is a travesty. But you have to understand these are little people who only choose to stand up for themselves by getting on their knees and asking politely for their rights. And the MAN will never give you what is yours until you stand up look them in the eye and take it.

Yes some people be hurt, probably killed but I guarantee you, shed enough blood and the Canadians will be there with open hands asking what will it take to stop it.

]]> By: Donald Hawkins http://dissidentvoice.org/2008/10/pain-compliance-as-indigenous-relations/#comment-30026 Donald Hawkins Mon, 20 Oct 2008 15:56:28 +0000 http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=4060#comment-30026 “We’re going to keep fighting.” Yes we are, thanks. “We’re going to keep fighting.” Yes we are, thanks.

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