While Obama COULD conceivably launch a nuclear war out of dispassionate “rationality”, McCain seems FAR more the type to “shoot first and ask questions later”, as he’s often demonstrated. He truly does appear a bit “tetched” at times, MUCH too headstrong — and bedeviled by the ghosts of his past — to occupy such a position of awesome responsibility.

I wouldn’t expect “great things” from either man, only the prospect of survival and relative betterment under Obama. But having many times uselessly voted for the duopoly’s proffered “lesser” evil, I’m now content to simply vote my conscience, rather than any perceived “practicality”. For all the “integrity” our E-lections have exhibited this century, it hardly matters, at that! So, why not? I voted for Jon Anderson in the past, and he did relatively well, though he didn’t win. George Wallace and Ross Perot (neither of which I voted for) genuinely threatened the survival of that 2-party stranglehold on electoral democracy.

Does the system suck? You bet! But sadly, it’s the ONLY one we’ve got right now. And without an outright revolution, it’s the only one we’re LIKELY to have, barring some miraculous reform from within. So I’ll likely vote Third Party, hope for the best, and expect the worst (as usual). BOTH of the candidates I voted for in 2000 and 2004 legitimately WON their respective elections, as far as I’m concerned. Yet NEITHER was ever installed in the White House. “Welcome to Amerika!”

The problem is systemic and is as prevelant at the local as it is at national level. Green candidates in CT have been banned from debates (in spite of obtaining ballot agreement from the office of the SoS which required hundreds of hours and thousands of signatures).

In the grand scheme Barr and Cobb are pimples on the ass of an elephant.

I would agree that a Green Party has no chance unless it is willing to build a coalition with labor, independent progressives, and progressive libertarians. Some elements of conservatives may join in in this coalition and create a real threat to the existing duopoloy. But in the end without deep structural changes, it will be just one duopoloy for another.

Clearly the power structure impede the chance of a third party but recently the third party harm themselves. The Green Party deliberately sabotage Nader in 2004 and lost ballot lines where you had Trojan candidates like David Cobb and infiltrators like Medea Benjamin to disrupt the Greens.

It seems this year that the Libertarians are facing a similar problem with Barr as their standard bearer.

Thus while the system does throw up huge barriers it seems that the third parties themselves have not been able to construct themselves to build the necessary cohesion that can prevent these kinds of internal disruptions.

There is the delusion of difference which is even more irrational than the above “reasoning”.

As far as which of these candidates is acceptable or unacceptable, that’s really a false choice, but it may make some of us feel better to draw a “line ” in the proverbial sand.

Poilu a third party doesn’t have a chance because the power structure of the American political system only allows two parties. Third parties can only exist when they eliminate through some kind f coalitional magic the Dems or Repubs. My point, only a different system will allow an array of parties.

Joshua: Even within its context, I’d say that remark VASTLY overestimates McCain’s “candor” to date. While it’s true he openly appears an unabashed hawk, his assertions of “fact” and position during this campaign have spun more revolutions than my old record turntable ever did.

Nevertheless, this campaign IS a sorry spectacle in general. I never did catch “Obama Fever”, though I liked the candidate early on, when he was still merely a nominee. But his own astounding reversals constitute an incredible betrayal of the grass roots constituency which pushed him to the pinnacle.

He MIGHT still (marginally) constitute the “lesser of two evils” — McCain is simply unacceptable to me — but America certainly deserves FAR better choices after 8 years of this despicable Bush Reich. Though I DOUBT that a third-party victory is any more probable this election than it has been in previous ones, I will probably pursue that option, if anything, rather than cast a vote for either of the “Republocrat” candidates.

Yeah, that’ll do the trick…

The dems could have won with a moderate white guy who said nothing but, ‘I’m not McCain’ and won by 20%. I don’t think all the candidates are going to make it to election day anyway. This whole election feels like a midnight shyamalan movie. I’m betting McCain has been dead the whole time and Palin’s only weakness is water.

I’m starting a pool to buy land in Canada… just in case.

What I think is that the both the “Left” and the “Right” are in a very divided situation. We had some Ron Paul supporters here on DV recently and from that discussion I think what is happening to the Libertarian Party this year is almost a mirror image of what happened to the Green Party in 2004.

I think the real story here is that there is a concerted effort to disrupt third party challenges by sabotaging the parties from within. This is clearly meant to frustrate people from exercising their rights.

The reason why Nader was sabotaged in 2004 was because he represented a real threat then especially after he grew the Greens during from his 2000 run. The Libertarian looked liked a threat this year being energized by Ron Paul’s efforts and somehow Bob Barr became their standard bearer and was clearly not the choice of party loyalists.

Somehow the internal structures of theses third parties are very weak that allows this kind of Trojan Horse disruption. This begs the question of how third party internal structures can be strength so that it can provide a serious challenge to the duopoly.

Locally, in CT, the “third” parties and independents have been shut out of every debate; even after begin told they’d met the criteria and were in. This election is all about saving the Empire. All other contenders are denied entry!

While I agree with your general points, I say NO to the impotence of this statment